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00:08:46 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:12:31 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:23:08 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-66-77.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:36:43 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:02 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:40:31 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 00:42:55 <BadBrett> automation sure is fun when working with nml 00:47:08 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-64-63.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:05:06 <supermop> hi 01:13:54 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:23 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 01:21:40 <BadBrett> hi supermop 01:23:28 *** keoz [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 01:40:50 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 01:45:28 <supermop> hows it going? 02:04:46 *** pugi_ [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-050-118.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 02:10:33 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-049-135.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:10:34 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 02:16:16 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-050-118.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:24:17 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 02:31:41 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:31:20 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:a966:de75:d462:a69b] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:00:08 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.10.233] has joined #openttd 04:23:49 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 04:26:49 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 04:27:07 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 04:32:37 *** hmmwhatsthisdo [~hmmwhatst@h75-100-224-83.lactwa.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66E57.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5651.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:14:40 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-66-108-51-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:16:42 *** telanus [~telanus@105-236-172-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #openttd 05:47:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:d88e:e618:6ea2:64d7] has joined #openttd 05:47:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:d88e:e618:6ea2:64d7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 05:50:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 06:03:29 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 06:14:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:eddc:172d:3bb2:49eb] has joined #openttd 06:15:13 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.10.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:16:52 <andythenorth> que tal 06:20:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:eddc:172d:3bb2:49eb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:20:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:21:01 <andythenorth> what a long and tedious thread about economy 06:22:19 <Flygon> All you need to know about the economy: If it helped kill Soviet Russia, it can help kill anything 06:29:34 <andythenorth> In Soviet Russia, economy kills you 06:34:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 06:35:24 <Flygon> Hahaha 06:38:16 *** roidal [~roland@188-22-216-31.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 06:38:20 <roidal> hi 06:39:00 <roidal> if i start a multiplayer server is there a way to disable some vehicles? 06:39:45 <roidal> for example all monorails 06:41:44 <Flygon> I know that could be done with NewGRF's, but beyond that... can't really help more x: 06:43:36 <roidal> ok, thank you 06:45:13 <Flygon> What sort of NewGRF's are you using? 06:45:40 <Flygon> I know you could load the 2CC trainset and monorail gets replaced by Metro, but I doubt that's what you wannt 06:46:32 <roidal> until now i don't use newgrf's 06:46:56 <Flygon> Ahh 06:47:01 <andythenorth> opengfx + trains might do it 06:47:03 <andythenorth> with parameters 06:47:48 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 06:47:59 <roidal> andythenorth: which parameter? 06:48:01 <roidal> ah 06:48:03 <roidal> you mean 06:48:10 <roidal> compile a ohne opengfx set? 06:48:14 <roidal> own* 06:51:54 <andythenorth> roidal: got 'opengfx+ trains' ? 06:52:06 <andythenorth> there are parameters, you set them in the newgrf window 06:52:24 <andythenorth> looks like it will do what you need 06:52:40 <roidal> ah 06:52:47 <roidal> sry, missunderstood you 07:00:35 <roidal> yes, that looks good 07:04:26 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.1/20121010144125]] 07:11:45 * andythenorth considers a 'race' MP GS 07:11:51 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:12:54 <andythenorth> every month, players have to connect two locations 07:13:07 <andythenorth> and 'race' a vehicle from A to B 07:13:21 <andythenorth> GS awards points to whoever gets there fastest 07:27:50 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:28:43 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 07:29:01 *** hmmwhatsthisdo [~hmmwhatst@h75-100-224-83.lactwa.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:30:28 <NGC3982> Morning. 07:30:36 <NGC3982> God help my head. 07:31:15 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 07:41:10 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:57:46 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:57:57 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:04 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 08:12:14 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 08:12:33 *** BadBrett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [] 08:21:44 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:22:58 <roidal> and gamesettings are not saved in the save-files? 08:23:14 <roidal> so if i change the settings in a singleplayer game and then load a multiplayer game 08:23:41 <roidal> they are changed in the multiplayergame too? 08:24:21 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:24:47 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:30:35 *** keoz [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 08:43:17 <andythenorth> most gamesettings travel with save 08:47:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19F39.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:49:47 <roidal> ok 08:51:21 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 08:54:04 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:56:39 <roidal> is there a way 08:57:01 <roidal> to give the client the rcon-password so i can change settings on the server from the client with the gui? 09:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> no 09:02:16 <andythenorth> hi Eddi|zuHause 09:02:32 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:37 <Eddi|zuHause> ooooh... snow 09:03:05 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:05:07 <andythenorth> in FIRS? Or irl? :P 09:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause> where the pizza comes from 09:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause> (actually, i never order pizza) 09:08:35 <Flygon> Snow comes from a Pizzaria? 09:08:52 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: obviously from the pizza tree -> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lost_in_minefield/5381676500/ 09:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm a "visualized vegetarian". i eat everything that i can visualize growing on trees. :p 09:10:31 <andythenorth> where is that picture about 'real life' with the guy looking out of the window? 09:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> on pics.nase-bohren.de ? 09:11:56 <andythenorth> couldn't find it there 09:11:57 <andythenorth> nvm 09:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause> http://pics.nase-bohren.de/reality.jpg 09:13:10 <andythenorth> ho ho 09:13:21 <andythenorth> thanks 09:13:58 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009c68.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:14:35 <Flygon> Reality sucks, the time aspect of it really needs patching 09:14:53 <Flygon> But we lost the source code sometime around the creation of matter 09:15:07 <Flygon> And it's proven difficult to disassemble manually 09:15:41 <andythenorth> so...FIRS economies 09:15:54 <andythenorth> depending on economy, some properties of an industry will vary 09:16:10 <andythenorth> is that an intrinsic property of each industry? 09:16:19 <andythenorth> or is it a configuration item from the environment? 09:16:37 <planetmaker> good morning 09:16:42 <andythenorth> i.e. one economies.py file, with all industries? 09:16:51 <andythenorth> or each industry knows how to behave in economy x? 09:16:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth, every month is very quick. but yearly of every 6 months... maybe 09:17:11 <planetmaker> might be quite fun :-) 09:18:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19F39.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:17 <andythenorth> the way I approach OO, I'd rather have the properties encapsulated in each industry 09:19:26 <andythenorth> then things are less likely to blow up, and it's more portable 09:19:29 <andythenorth> information hiding 09:19:31 <roidal> schade 09:19:49 <andythenorth> but it's more work with code, have to modify each industry instead of one giant table :P 09:20:15 <planetmaker> not sure that it is more work. Just more distributed 09:20:44 <andythenorth> it avoids 'everything is a giant ball of string' imo 09:20:57 <andythenorth> this might be bikeshedding, not sure 09:21:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what about defining a "mode" for each industry 09:21:11 <andythenorth> yes possibly 09:21:14 <planetmaker> this mode might involve production rates, acceptance and output 09:21:18 <planetmaker> maybe dates 09:21:33 <planetmaker> and the economy.py relates the mode to the economy mode of each industry 09:21:55 <planetmaker> so the mode for a particular industry could be the same in different economies (where it need not behave different) 09:22:41 <andythenorth> yes default behaviour is what I had in mind too 09:22:53 <andythenorth> if there's no change, no code needed 09:23:09 <planetmaker> hm, indeed. Mode 0 = default then 09:23:16 <planetmaker> didn't even mean that :D 09:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "Ai Weiwei's 'Gangnam Style' video was censored." 09:24:17 <Eddi|zuHause> ",,, in Germany" 09:30:57 <Flygon> ...what did they censor? 09:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the whole video is blocked on youtube 09:35:07 <Flygon> That's ridiculous 09:35:20 <Flygon> What would possibly be offensive about Gangnam style? 09:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> for "copyright" reasons 09:35:49 <Flygon> I say if it's aired on nationwide Australian TV during primetime during 'The Project', I say it's suitable for Germany :U 09:36:38 <Rubidium> Flygon: "sexy"? 09:36:42 <Flygon> (as well as a crapload of other TV shows) 09:37:20 <frosch123> every music video is blocked by default in germany 09:38:09 <__ln__> and germans never get annoyed by that? 09:38:18 <frosch123> the artist has to explicitly forbid the german usage rights authority to represent him 09:39:02 <Flygon> That's ludicrous 09:39:23 <planetmaker> quite 09:39:23 <frosch123> and the rights authority has not settled a deal with yt within 5 years or so 09:40:27 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: at least one GEMA-related petition passed the 50.000 petitors barrier 09:40:45 <andythenorth> ach, so I probably make some kind of 'EconomyConfig' class then 09:41:12 <Rubidium> the Belgian tv program Basta made a nice episode about the Belgian equivalent 09:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause> not that any petition ever changed anything... 09:42:11 <Rubidium> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basta_%28TV_show%29#SABAM 09:45:00 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-64-63.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i heard of this show before. but i don't remember if i actually watched it 09:49:05 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:49:38 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: well, it's in Flemmish/Dutch 10:02:54 <Fremen> Flemish * 10:08:47 <andythenorth> meh 10:09:08 <andythenorth> economy code: explicit disable of industry, or explicit enable? 10:09:12 * andythenorth bikeshedding 10:09:37 *** keoz [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 10:10:16 <planetmaker> andythenorth, enable 10:10:27 <andythenorth> I just voted disable :P 10:10:35 <planetmaker> :D 10:10:41 <andythenorth> enable means it's easy for me to screw up and break chains 10:10:44 <andythenorth> by forgetting an industry 10:11:16 <planetmaker> with disable it's easy to disable an industry which is crucial for a chain ;-) 10:11:31 <andythenorth> that too 10:11:38 <andythenorth> who is our tester? :P 10:11:44 <planetmaker> but yes, does really matter. bikeshedding fits it very well 10:11:57 <planetmaker> I want it painted red! 10:12:09 <planetmaker> then you can place the nuke in it 10:12:21 <andythenorth> orange 10:12:29 <planetmaker> reddish-orange? 10:12:37 <andythenorth> 3 legged camel 10:12:46 <planetmaker> wtf? dromeda! 10:13:00 <andythenorth> is there a case for varying cargo at industries? I think not 10:13:12 <andythenorth> ottd handles pretty well if a cargo is present or not 10:13:25 <andythenorth> but FIRS production code and info strings don't :P 10:13:37 *** keoz [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 10:13:46 <planetmaker> strings don't. We'll need to adjust them 10:14:18 <planetmaker> But still, even if the cargo is not available, the industry will accept it 10:14:23 <planetmaker> that will be confusing 10:14:33 <planetmaker> or do I err that it won't show, if the cargo isn't defined? 10:14:37 <andythenorth> it wont' show 10:14:46 <andythenorth> that's one of the smartest bits of industry_cmd.cpp :) 10:14:54 <planetmaker> nice 10:14:57 <andythenorth> lot's of it is bloody awful, but whoever did that gets a prize 10:19:12 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1834/ 10:19:20 <andythenorth> what else might *industries* want to vary in economies? 10:19:27 <andythenorth> cargos will be handled separately 10:19:57 <andythenorth> location code and production code are definitely out of scope imo 10:23:52 <planetmaker> production code is touched already by production amount. And should do so also for secondaries imho. But that's a 2nd step when this is done as you described 10:24:32 <planetmaker> and... could graphics vary (if you feel bold and like drawing)? 10:24:49 <planetmaker> or additional / less layouts available 10:24:54 <planetmaker> better approach 10:25:09 <andythenorth> yes they could 10:25:18 <andythenorth> layouts could be conditional on an economy 10:25:52 <andythenorth> for example, in 'Holland' economy, all grain millls use windmill only :P 10:25:54 <planetmaker> that would even give us the option to modify looks however one would see fit 10:25:57 <planetmaker> exactly 10:26:21 <planetmaker> or in a mars or future tech version, no wind mills or so 10:26:24 <andythenorth> ha 10:26:27 <planetmaker> (or only?) 10:26:29 <andythenorth> grain mills on mars :P 10:26:45 <Rubidium> andythenorth: luckily you didn't say "Dutch" economy ;) 10:27:16 <andythenorth> :P 10:28:31 <Rubidium> although... to be fair, even in Holland not all mills were wind mills 10:29:06 <planetmaker> Holland 17th century: s/cotton farm/tulip farm/ 10:29:18 <Rubidium> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide_mill 10:29:19 <planetmaker> would be an interesting variation, too ;-) 10:29:32 <planetmaker> isn't that quite new, Rubidium ? 10:29:41 <andythenorth> there is a plan for watermill 10:29:48 <planetmaker> hm, no, seemingly 10:29:54 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2993 10:30:03 <andythenorth> not sure if I can detect river accurately enough 10:30:12 <Rubidium> planetmaker: in stellar time frames it is 10:30:16 <planetmaker> :D 10:30:18 <andythenorth> if anyone wants to try writing tile location code for it, I'll draw graphics :P 10:30:26 <planetmaker> I'll write that code 10:30:41 <andythenorth> ok :) 10:30:46 <Rubidium> although... 5 decades might be relatively young for mills 10:31:13 <andythenorth> planetmaker: might be worth looking how Yexo did the petrol station 10:31:23 <andythenorth> only locates next to roads 10:31:31 <planetmaker> yes... I wrote that code ;-) 10:31:32 <andythenorth> and chooses an appropriate layout to line up with road 10:31:36 <andythenorth> oh you did :) 10:31:45 <andythenorth> fine then 10:31:59 <andythenorth> if we can't detect rivers, I suggest extend spec 10:32:06 <planetmaker> I guess both of us did at one time, him and me 10:32:14 <andythenorth> he wrote the nfo equivalent 10:32:41 <planetmaker> I wrote most of nml location code, I think, at least the last template version 10:33:04 <planetmaker> spent weeks on it 10:33:21 <Rubidium> hand mill: 3000 BC, water mill: 1200 BC, wind mill: 100 AD, ship mill: 600 AD, tide mill: 1500 AD 10:33:27 <andythenorth> nuclear mill? 10:33:48 <Rubidium> ~ 1950 10:33:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: there were so many cases in the nfo to handle for locations :) 10:34:05 <andythenorth> I had ~2 years to think up all those ;) 10:34:16 <planetmaker> they're all still there 10:34:20 <andythenorth> I know 10:34:32 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:34:35 <planetmaker> and it's good to have some decision paths there 10:34:40 <planetmaker> makes for a bit variety 10:34:41 <andythenorth> I read them all when I improved town industry locations 10:34:46 <andythenorth> they're all well documented too 10:35:35 <planetmaker> yes, I spent lots of time on that, too ;-) 10:35:49 <planetmaker> But I know from my own experience that I forget what I did... so just for myself :-P 10:44:52 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the tile location code is still the cpp templates, right? 10:46:25 <andythenorth> yup 10:46:26 <planetmaker> he, we already have a water class check on a tile basis. We would just need to employ it 10:46:39 <andythenorth> np plans to change the tile location code any time soon, no benefit 10:46:57 <planetmaker> TILE_CHECK_WATERCLASS(name, class, yes, no) 10:47:20 <andythenorth> does the class find rivers? 10:47:27 <andythenorth> or would it also find canals? 10:47:30 <andythenorth> and coasts? 10:47:50 <planetmaker> coast is a separate check 10:48:20 <planetmaker> RIVER is a separate water class, though 10:48:30 <planetmaker> different from CANAL and SEA and NONE 10:49:01 <planetmaker> thus one would need make sure that tile is flat and class RIVER 10:49:13 <planetmaker> and possibly the adjacent tile, too (if it's a two-tile layout) 10:49:41 <planetmaker> thus I can only write the check when I know the layout :-) 10:50:07 <planetmaker> my idea for the layout is two-tile with building on land and the wheel on the water. so-to-speak 10:50:30 <andythenorth> will that block ships? 10:50:48 <andythenorth> I was thinking of a mill pond and mill channel to one side 10:50:51 <planetmaker> yes. it will become an industry tile 10:50:53 <andythenorth> hmm 10:50:55 <andythenorth> put it on rapids :P 10:51:03 <planetmaker> that's another option 10:51:10 <planetmaker> but harder, much harder, to place 10:51:25 <planetmaker> the other option I'd place 2nd is to place it entirely next to the river 10:51:36 <planetmaker> with a river extension where the mill wheel turns 10:51:50 <planetmaker> then the river will remain navigable 10:53:51 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus] 10:54:11 <planetmaker> river extension only graphically, of course 10:54:41 <andythenorth> sprites overlapping the tile boundary? 10:54:45 <andythenorth> might work o_O 10:54:46 <planetmaker> no 10:54:50 <planetmaker> well. might work 10:55:02 <planetmaker> but I'd rather then put the wheel at the tile boundary 10:55:36 <planetmaker> hm... though yes, we have a problem with showing water... we might need to do that then... :S 10:55:48 <planetmaker> So... rather build on the river. Better looks 10:55:48 <andythenorth> put the tile on the N side :P 10:55:53 <andythenorth> wheel / tile /s 10:56:05 <andythenorth> hidden 10:56:25 <planetmaker> he. In my mind I *always* placed it on the Western sides, either NW or SW. 10:57:32 <planetmaker> I would like a turning wheel :-) 10:58:32 * andythenorth tries to figure out how to link up a mill stream with main river graphics 10:58:39 <andythenorth> would need to cross the river bank graphics 10:58:47 <planetmaker> yes 10:59:22 <andythenorth> I don't want to do one of those weird graphical cheats which go out of the tile 10:59:42 <planetmaker> Then probably our option is only on the river 10:59:48 <andythenorth> block it? 10:59:52 <planetmaker> yes 10:59:56 <andythenorth> ach try it 11:00:02 <planetmaker> if we don't want that, it need be on rapids. But... meh 11:00:20 <planetmaker> try on? or try graphical cheat? :D 11:04:36 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 11:09:14 <andythenorth> try cheat 11:09:19 <andythenorth> rapids are too limiting 11:10:51 <planetmaker> you think it's bad to block the river? 11:10:59 <andythenorth> it is for ships :) 11:11:11 <andythenorth> but there are canals, right? :P 11:11:20 <planetmaker> we can also argue that a proper water mill needs a river block to generate some water drop. and ^^ 11:11:30 <andythenorth> build a lock :P 11:11:43 <planetmaker> well. you don't need that on flat terrain ;-) 11:11:48 <andythenorth> just try it blocking the river 11:11:53 <andythenorth> see what happens :) 11:12:27 <andythenorth> actually, anything like drawing a mill stream is bad 11:12:35 <andythenorth> because it might not match river graphics anyway 11:12:48 <planetmaker> ok. It's also the easiest thing to do 11:12:49 <andythenorth> so definitely just build on river 11:16:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:17:35 <Wolf01> hi o/ 11:18:19 <planetmaker> hello Wolf01 11:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: well, it's in Flemmish/Dutch <-- i'm fairly sure there were english subtitles available :p 11:24:19 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@88.149.50.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:25:31 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx128.nemendur.hi.is] has joined #openttd 11:37:02 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-062-061.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 12:18:55 *** igor [b22a5bae@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:19:45 *** igor [b22a5bae@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 12:39:12 <roidal> how can i save the company-password? 12:39:21 <roidal> when i restart the server the passwords are disabled? 12:40:08 <Ammler> you can't 12:40:18 <Ammler> not diabled, removed 12:40:38 <roidal> ok 12:40:40 <roidal> thx 12:41:29 <Ammler> simply because you don't want to save the passwords in the game.sav 12:41:45 <Ammler> and that is about all infos you keep on restart 12:43:30 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:48 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:44:24 <planetmaker> it's not even removed. It simply is and was never saved 12:44:40 <planetmaker> and saving it has problems with e.g. giving away savegames or so 12:45:21 <planetmaker> a viable solution, roidal, is to use admin scripts to automatically set passwords. And of course good administration to move people on request into their companies after a reload 12:46:34 <roidal> ok 12:48:18 <roidal> and what exactly is saved in the save-files? 12:48:28 <roidal> some settings too? 12:48:41 <roidal> or only the map and companies? 12:48:42 <planetmaker> most settings are saved 12:49:00 <planetmaker> except network settings and gui-only ones 12:49:12 <planetmaker> look at your adv. settings. All but the ui section is saved 12:49:29 <roidal> so, if i create a new game and change difficulty or economic settings in the openttd.conf 12:49:40 <roidal> it doesnt affect already existing games? 12:49:48 <planetmaker> exactly 12:50:11 <roidal> oh 12:50:25 <roidal> and how can i change it in the running game? i tried it with the console 12:50:30 <planetmaker> rcon 12:50:48 <planetmaker> yes, via console you can. In single player of course also via the adv. settings UI 12:50:49 <roidal> i tried to change the construction_cost but it doesen't allow it 12:50:59 <planetmaker> yes, you can't change everything in MP games 12:51:05 <planetmaker> some things are fixed. And that's it 12:51:15 <roidal> thats bad...:D 12:51:33 <planetmaker> it would be bad, if it were allowed. Clients would be kicked due to diverging game states 12:51:36 <roidal> and if a load the map as a singleplayer game, change it, and then load as multiplayer again? 12:51:42 <planetmaker> that might work 12:51:52 <planetmaker> though... construction costs... not sure 12:52:19 <planetmaker> try 12:52:35 <roidal> ok 12:52:37 <roidal> thank you! 12:56:37 <NGC3982> Good afternoon. 13:13:16 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:21 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 13:18:55 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@vpnx128.nemendur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:20:32 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@88.149.50.18] has joined #openttd 13:21:14 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:29:37 *** telanus [~telanus@105-236-172-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:36:28 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:37:19 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 13:37:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [] 13:42:19 <andythenorth> hmm 13:42:25 <andythenorth> how does the ternary operator work in nml? 13:42:48 <andythenorth> I want to return '3079 + (animation_frame / 4)' if animation_frame < 19 13:42:48 <planetmaker> x = y == 2 ? 5 : 3 13:43:08 <planetmaker> x = condition ? true : false 13:43:13 <andythenorth> ah 13:46:05 * andythenorth wonders if there's a number for an empty sprite in base set? 13:46:18 <andythenorth> 93-97 look empty 13:47:22 <frosch123> those are character sprites 13:47:28 <frosch123> you will trigger an error when using them in a spritelayout 13:47:29 <roidal> whats the "default company password" button? 13:47:31 <andythenorth> k 13:47:58 <andythenorth> I currently have smoke that turns into a floating bus :) 13:48:14 <FLHerne> Any good reason? :P 13:48:20 <frosch123> roidal: it makes the entered password to be stored in your local openttd.cfg, and automatically applied whenever you start a new company on any server 13:48:30 <frosch123> (storage is unencrypted) 13:48:54 <roidal> ah 13:48:56 <roidal> thanks 13:49:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: know of any other sprites that are blank? :P 13:49:14 <frosch123> doesn't it have a tooltip hint btw? 13:49:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: add one? 13:49:36 <andythenorth> needs to have a number from the base set 13:49:41 <frosch123> or even use the adv spritelayout stuff to make a sprite invisble 13:49:47 <planetmaker> uhm, I don't think there is one, andythenorth 13:49:54 <andythenorth> can't do that (right now) 13:50:02 <andythenorth> owing to I have to go to the toyshop o_O 13:50:21 <andythenorth> I'll add a special template for smoke sprites 13:55:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:00:56 <roidal> and there is again a question 14:01:05 <roidal> how can i remove a server from the list? 14:02:52 <planetmaker> shut down 14:03:39 <roidal> no :D i mean 14:03:55 <roidal> i added a server in the client...which i don't need anymore 14:05:28 *** keoz [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 14:05:37 <roidal> hm..no other way? 14:05:38 <roidal> ok 14:07:13 *** keoz [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:28 <planetmaker> select another server. the memory only holds one... 14:19:39 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Quit: Pulce sezrali] 14:24:38 *** keoz [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 14:25:15 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has joined #openttd 14:26:50 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-66-108-51-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:26:54 *** keoz [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 14:30:13 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 14:44:16 *** DanMacK [~Dan@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 14:44:47 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Quit: Pulce sezrali] 14:46:07 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 14:51:18 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has joined #openttd 14:54:01 <TrueBrain> building a new balancer (finally .. about freaking time, but okay): 14:54:12 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/balancer.py.txt <- if anyone has some sane remarks on the code, lemme know ;) 14:54:46 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Quit: [RESET]] 15:01:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:04:56 *** keoz_ [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 15:06:03 *** keoz [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:06:31 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has joined #openttd 15:15:24 <andythenorth> hmm 15:15:25 <andythenorth> smoke 15:16:58 <andythenorth> all these lovely steam ships 15:17:04 <andythenorth> and no way to show smoke :o 15:20:20 <Flygon> Isn't there a steam-smoke flag? 15:20:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 15:20:56 <Flygon> I've seen it used in eGTRS 2.0 15:20:57 <Flygon> Also 15:21:00 <Flygon> I forgot the acronym 15:22:09 <andythenorth> yes there is a flag 15:22:14 <andythenorth> it was very kindly patched 15:22:21 <Rubidium> capture it! 15:22:24 <frosch123> Flygon: egrvts 15:22:37 <frosch123> extended generic roadvehicle and tram set 15:22:41 <frosch123> easy, isn't it? :p 15:23:16 <andythenorth> there is even an option to offset smoke along the y axis :) 15:23:27 <andythenorth> but there is no option to offset z 15:23:29 <andythenorth> or x 15:23:30 <frosch123> "y axis" :p 15:23:38 <frosch123> you mean "along the vehicle" 15:23:51 <Rubidium> that's X ;) 15:24:31 <andythenorth> ha 15:24:36 <andythenorth> I read the code as y 15:24:38 <andythenorth> but nvm :) 15:24:57 <andythenorth> it's a long time since I read it :P 15:25:03 <andythenorth> when I last tried to patch this 15:25:09 <Rubidium> oh, in code... then I have no clue ;) 15:25:22 <Rubidium> only know the axis in measurement data ;) 15:25:31 <andythenorth> anyway this one is a social problem, not a code problem 15:26:03 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24631 /trunk/src (3 files in 3 dirs) (2012-10-27 15:25:57 UTC) 15:26:04 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Add buttons to expand/collapse all to advanced settings GUI. 15:26:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24632 /trunk/src (5 files in 3 dirs) (2012-10-27 15:26:17 UTC) 15:26:24 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Add text filtering to advanced settings. 15:26:30 <andythenorth> o_O 15:26:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24633 trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp (2012-10-27 15:26:34 UTC) 15:26:41 <DorpsGek> -Add: Autoexpand the adv. settings tree, if a filter term is entered immediately after opening the window without any manual expanding/collapsing. 15:27:27 <Rubidium> tss... lazy translators ;) 15:28:28 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Quit: Pulce sezrali] 15:28:41 <andythenorth> what a nice steam ship 15:28:42 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3334/paddle_steamer_large.png 15:31:29 <Zuu> I though to do some minor tweaks to "Neighbours are important". One of those is to display a list of negihbour towns in the GUI. As town names sometimes can be quite long, I though it might be a good idea to have each town name on a line of its own. But then you need some sort of bullet list or indention. And that is my question, is there something better than dash-bullets? 15:31:30 <Zuu> http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/Neighbour-list.png 15:33:20 <Rubidium> maybe the > arrow from the order list? 15:36:20 <Rubidium> does the * look okay? 15:36:33 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has joined #openttd 15:39:44 <Zuu> The * looks wierd to me. 15:39:51 <Zuu> > can work 15:40:47 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [] 15:41:49 *** DanMacK [~Dan@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:41:56 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Nice boat :-) 15:42:24 <Zuu> In OpenGFX its a double arrow >> in the orders list. I guess its actually a sprite rather than something from the font, so it might be hard to get int into a GSText unless there is a {}-code for it that is not documented on the wiki. 15:42:35 <andythenorth> FLHerne: danmack drew it 15:43:15 <planetmaker> hm, which, Zuu ? 15:43:33 <Zuu> planetmaker: which do you mean? 15:43:48 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has joined #openttd 15:44:15 <planetmaker> sprite / thing you're "worried" about 15:44:59 <planetmaker> there's... a bullet character in the extra grf afaik 15:45:19 <planetmaker> but better... depends on how you want to display it 15:45:57 <Zuu> I was wondering if there is a bullet that can be added to english.txt that might be better visually than the dashes that I use in the screenshot. 15:46:09 <planetmaker> let me look... 15:46:17 <Zuu> <Zuu> http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/Neighbour-list.png <-- screenshot 15:47:41 <Zuu> I could try to indent the towns the same amount as the cargo requirements, but that indention seem to be hardcoded as pixles in the code rather than as spaces in a string. So I doubt I can get the same indention as that list above for any font setting. 15:47:46 <planetmaker> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/b7/index.htm maybe? 15:48:17 <planetmaker> it's available in the sprite fonts 15:50:34 <Zuu> With dot: http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/Neighbour-list2.png 15:51:05 <Zuu> I guess I should add a space before the dot to get it to look a bit better. 15:51:13 <Zuu> Otherwise quite nice. 15:51:33 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:51:53 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:52:12 <planetmaker> actually, it suffices to have no letter except a bit indentation 15:52:15 <planetmaker> imho 15:53:49 <Zuu> Yea, that is probably going to be the best. 15:54:22 <Zuu> Only expection is if a town name is soo long that it warps. But then there will be no indention for the warped part, so that should work too. 15:54:22 <Eddi|zuHause> if you had a GRF, i'd suggest just adding a sprite for the desired UTF-8 character... 15:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the word is "wrap", btw. 15:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause> has nothing to do with startrek :) 15:55:21 <Zuu> Indention vs dots: http://devs.openttd.org/~zuu/Neighbour-list3.png 15:56:37 <planetmaker> hm. Dots might look better after all :-) 15:56:57 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, but... then that char should be part of the base sets 15:56:58 <frosch123> is the dot present in openttd.grf ogfx_extra.grf? 15:57:05 <frosch123> else you will have trouble with the sprite font 15:57:06 <planetmaker> frosch123, yes 15:57:14 <planetmaker> I only suggested those I found there 15:57:17 * Zuu uses sprite font 15:57:36 <planetmaker> documentation there luckily is quite good :-) 15:57:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009c68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i was speaking in conditional for a reason 15:59:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (even though the grammar was probably wrong) 15:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: i think the dots look fine 15:59:43 <planetmaker> I think it was right. But I still believe that NewGRFs are a bad place to introduce new characters... 16:10:49 <Zuu> Is it the dessert/snow status of the town tile that decide if the town is a dessert/snow town? 16:11:02 <Zuu> town tile = tile under town sign. 16:11:50 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.235] has joined #openttd 16:12:44 <planetmaker> yes 16:12:51 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:20 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:18:18 <Zuu> Non-desert towns accept food right? Its just the water requirement that need to be removed (and instead increase the other requirements of those towns) 16:19:03 <planetmaker> food acceptance is a house property usually 16:19:22 <planetmaker> so every town will accept it, given proper houses + size 16:22:55 <Zuu> Good, then I'll add the 'water' requirement to food. 16:25:44 <Zuu> And in artic, food is accepted by towns both below and above snow line? 16:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, except when you load alpine.grf or something 16:26:42 <Zuu> So with default industries etc. the only real exception is that non-desert towns will not be able to accept water. 16:27:01 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:29 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just check acceptance nearby? 16:30:09 <planetmaker> I think that's right, Zuu. As water towers probably only are buildable in the desert 16:30:15 <planetmaker> but worth checking :-) 16:31:12 <Zuu> The wiki article about climates didn't contain much cover on these restrictions from this perspective. 16:31:43 <DanMacK> What are you guys up to now? Lol 16:32:03 <planetmaker> sounds like game scripts 16:32:10 * Zuu is looking over "Neighbours are important" 16:33:01 <Zuu> No fundamental news. Just a few improvements here and there within the limitations of what is possible within the 1.2.x API. 16:33:33 <DanMacK> Coo 16:38:36 <supermop> is there a patch of either c-dist or yacd with a new enough nightly for GS? 16:38:51 <FLHerne> cdist is, easily 16:38:59 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: Might be an idea. I beleive the current limits of when goals kick in are somewhat safe, but checking actual cargo acceptance would solve things like alpine.grf as well as protecting against a town starting to require food before it is large enough to accept it. 16:39:35 <FLHerne> I don't think YACD's been updated for ages, but CDist's <100 revisions behind trunk 16:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: large towns tend to not accept food in the center, as a building can only accept either food or goods, not both 16:41:01 <Zuu> It may be that a such mechanism would cause trouble in more cases than it solves. Especially as I can't remember anyone complaining on this issue. 16:43:47 <Zuu> So I think I'll skip that for now. 16:45:22 <supermop> why did noone ever make a generic train set 16:45:44 <supermop> something like eGTS 16:49:20 <peter1138> it's called ukrs ;) 16:50:41 <supermop> thats what i've been using in its place 16:51:01 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:17 <supermop> something like the original trains but with more MUs would be nice 16:53:41 <supermop> just a few generations of trains a couple of choices, cheap vs powerful or something 16:54:27 <planetmaker> like opengfx+ trains? 16:54:40 <supermop> but more trains 16:54:58 <supermop> say instead of just the manley morel, there is a similar emu 16:55:35 <supermop> and so forth with the dash 16:56:36 <supermop> one or two older electrics and new diesels 16:56:49 <supermop> but still a generally low number of total trains 16:56:52 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:bd10:9299:302:3560] has joined #openttd 16:56:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:59:39 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:25 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:00 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:06:47 *** KritiK [~Maxim@128-72-40-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:10:32 *** roland [~roland@93-82-54-145.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 17:11:12 *** roland is now known as Guest3360 17:11:45 <planetmaker> supermop, can you prepare a list of engines, their stats, including intro and decomissioning dates which would suit your needs? 17:12:58 *** CornishPasty [uid158@id-158.hampstead.irccloud.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:58 *** lucaspiller [uid2039@id-2039.hampstead.irccloud.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:11 *** roidal [~roland@188-22-216-31.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:18:38 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:52 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 17:19:41 <supermop> yes i suppose i could 17:31:52 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Quit: Pulce sezrali] 17:34:48 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has joined #openttd 17:34:56 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.132.91] has joined #openttd 17:41:51 *** keoz_ [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz_] 17:43:01 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-172-187-158.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:45:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24634 /trunk/src/lang (6 files in 2 dirs) (2012-10-27 17:45:31 UTC) 17:45:43 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:44 <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 69 changes by Oomjcv 17:45:45 <DorpsGek> catalan - 35 changes by arnau 17:45:46 <DorpsGek> english_US - 3 changes by Rubidium 17:45:47 <DorpsGek> german - 8 changes by planetmaker 17:45:48 <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093 17:45:49 <DorpsGek> tamil - 25 changes by Rubidium, aswn 17:48:11 *** keoz [~keikoz@58.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 17:48:59 <supermop> how do i filter servers my version? 17:49:02 <supermop> by 17:49:30 *** CornishPasty [uid158@id-158.hampstead.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 17:49:36 <Guest3360> what exactly does "inflation" do? does all prises raisis (also the money you get for delivering) 17:49:42 <Guest3360> or only the prices of old engines? 17:50:26 <planetmaker> all prices rise. But expenses faster than income 17:50:48 <Guest3360> thanks 17:51:29 *** Guest3360 is now known as roidal 17:52:03 *** FLHerne_ [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:53:07 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:57:38 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:03:42 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the version you use is automatically on top 18:03:42 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus] 18:11:42 *** lucaspiller [uid2039@id-2039.hampstead.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 18:31:57 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 18:33:45 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-172-187-158.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:24 <__ln__> is there netflix in germanland? 18:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never seen one 18:44:39 <__ln__> netflix started here last week, and it's seems to be very affordable and technically great service. 18:47:14 <Zuu> I think I saw on the news that they have started in England/UK and now scandinavia is their second market in europe. 18:50:55 <Zuu> IIRC it was said that they also plan to start up in Spain. Eventually they will probably get to Germany too. 18:51:12 <NGC3982> __ln__: It works really well around here, too 18:51:37 <NGC3982> I really like how services like this work 18:51:46 <NGC3982> Spotify + Netflix, for instance 18:52:23 <NGC3982> Monthly payments, "unlimited usage" and a fair amount of content. 18:53:32 <__ln__> exactly 18:54:21 * NGC3982 company used to be the CiC unit for Spotify 18:55:13 <NGC3982> The lack of customer credit and debt collection is quite effective. 18:55:18 <Zuu> Althrough it is kind of irritating when some CD that you have been listening on for a year suddenly vannish from Spotify and is impossible to buy on even Amazon. 18:55:35 <NGC3982> Zuu: That is true. 18:55:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D0A8.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:56:13 <NGC3982> Though, comparing what you pay for the premium service (with that risk) and a physical CD collection - It's quite unmatchable. 18:56:54 <NGC3982> At least now when they have added so much music 18:58:07 <Zuu> Though, for 1200 SEK (premium) or 600 SEK (new add-free plan), you can buy a few CDs a year. 18:59:49 <Zuu> Its indeed good, but especially when there was only the 1200 SEK plan, you could compare it to buying some 6-8 CDs a year. 19:00:24 <__ln__> i suppose that's the business idea behind Spotify and Netflix.. the vast majority of people spend more on the subscription than they would spend on CDs or rental movies per year. 19:02:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C2E7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:04:17 * __ln__ spends 0⬠per year on rental movies 19:05:30 <andythenorth> 13 industries left to migrate :P 19:05:48 * Zuu has used some on-demand retal services, but never reached a long term cost that reach the fee for netflix. 19:06:49 <Terkhen> hello 19:06:58 <Zuu> In order for netflex to "pay", I need to watch more than 2 movies in average per month. 19:07:34 <Zuu> Hello Terkhen 19:08:04 <andythenorth> lo Terkhen 19:12:26 <NGC3982> Zuu: According to Last.fm, i use roughly 100 hours of Spotify a month. 19:12:53 <NGC3982> That's worth every penny, for me at least :) 19:13:13 <NGC3982> __ln__: Of course, as you said with rental movies. 19:13:32 <NGC3982> It's a great way to reduce piracy and at the same time make people use the material. 19:13:56 <NGC3982> At least as far as i think. 19:14:01 <NGC3982> andythenorth: Great job, sport. 19:15:50 <NGC3982> andythenorth: Will you let us know when the SFIRS 0.0.1 is done? 19:16:00 <__ln__> considering how much e.g. Viasat would cost per month, and how crap it is (both technically and contentwise), 7,99⬠for netflix is really cheap. 19:18:10 <Zuu> Indeed. I've ended my TV subscription and for that I can easily pay for the content that I want to see and still reduce the total cost. 19:18:12 <NGC3982> As long as it works. 19:18:18 <NGC3982> Spotify did, luckily. 19:18:41 <NGC3982> And a thing that i love is that you don't lock the fuck up on twelve month subscription crap ass-twat-faces. 19:18:50 * NGC3982 calms down. 19:19:02 <NGC3982> Im sorry for that. 19:22:26 <andythenorth> anyone added smoke yet? 19:24:34 <__ln__> viasat's movie thing costs 19,95â¬/month, and afaik it contains 1 HD channel and four or five bad-bitrate-SD channels. 19:26:06 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:27:45 <NGC3982> __ln__: Ew. 19:27:54 <oskari89> andythenorth: Do you have cargo chart for SFIRS? 19:28:13 <andythenorth> nope 19:28:19 * NGC3982 can make one. 19:28:25 <andythenorth> what is SFIRS? 19:28:29 <NGC3982> Soylent FIRS. 19:28:31 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:28:57 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:29:04 <NGC3982> ./topic Welcome to #OpenTTD - It's made out of people!" 19:29:19 <andythenorth> there are logs giving my view on further mention of soylent 19:29:21 <andythenorth> bye 19:29:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 20:18:26 *** LaDoncella [~alexvs85-@15.248.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 20:19:00 *** LaDoncella [~alexvs85-@15.248.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 20:19:19 *** LaDoncella [~alexvs85-@15.248.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 20:22:31 *** LaDoncella [~alexvs85-@15.248.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #openttd [] 20:28:43 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.137] has joined #openttd 20:36:51 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 20:40:55 <TrueBrain> any math freak in the house? 20:42:58 <TrueBrain> meh, what a boring channel :( 20:46:01 <planetmaker> zzzZZZZzzz ;-) 20:50:40 *** DanMacK [~AndChat61@74.198.9.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:53 <Warod> hah 21:02:40 <TrueBrain> ah, Warod 21:02:45 <TrueBrain> I can now selectively mirror files 21:02:52 <TrueBrain> so .. you owe me a mirror for OpenTTD :P 21:03:00 <Warod> ha! ;) 21:03:23 <Warod> not unpossible, yes. :) 21:04:12 <Warod> do you do geoIP based mirror selection? 21:04:16 <TrueBrain> yes 21:04:28 <Warod> so we could essentially provide mostly for .fi users? 21:04:46 <TrueBrain> mirrors offload to othermirrors if they get stressed 21:04:54 <TrueBrain> so during a release that wont really be the case 21:05:08 <Warod> yeah 21:05:19 <TrueBrain> the next closest mirror is HU, so all surrounding countries would also be knocking on your door 21:05:21 <Warod> how much mbps are we talking about on releases? 21:05:37 <TrueBrain> no clue really .. never did the math 21:06:01 <Warod> how many downloads in a day all together? 21:06:11 <TrueBrain> loading our stats page .. lets see ... 21:06:21 <TrueBrain> Last day: 3131, Last Week: 25886 21:06:25 <TrueBrain> Average day: 2964 21:06:44 <TrueBrain> 1.2.2 was downloaded 185k times 21:06:49 <Warod> is that normal day or when was the release out? 21:06:59 <TrueBrain> that is today, so "normal" 21:07:09 <Warod> mm 21:07:47 <TrueBrain> the Yogcast caused 30k downloads a day 21:07:48 *** krinn [~krinn@206.227.101.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 21:07:49 <Rubidium> there have been four days with more than 10k downloads 21:07:54 <krinn> hi 21:08:31 <TrueBrain> lets say 10M for a binary (over-estimated, but meh) 21:08:40 <TrueBrain> so that would be 300GB that day 21:08:45 <TrueBrain> which was a peak day 21:08:58 <Rubidium> and the only discernable peaks are beta1 (just before Christmas) and .0 (begin Q2) 21:09:04 <TrueBrain> you do make me wonder ... I could in theory implement bandwidth trottled mirrors 21:09:17 <TrueBrain> like: max N GB per day 21:09:22 * planetmaker donates an "h" to tb 21:09:24 <TrueBrain> I could also restrict to like: only from FI 21:09:37 <Warod> TrueBrain: well.. not that much of a traffic then. :) 21:09:43 <Warod> our yesterday was... 21:09:50 <Warod> 855 GB 21:09:52 <TrueBrain> then why are you bugging me getting those details 21:09:54 <TrueBrain> pffffffff 21:10:05 * TrueBrain slaps Warod .. making me work .. pffff 21:10:19 <Warod> ;D 21:10:25 <planetmaker> :-P 21:10:26 <Warod> You're ment to be coding! ;) 21:10:32 <TrueBrain> been all day :P 21:10:43 <TrueBrain> so, prep us a mirror :P I only need rsync access ;) 21:11:02 <glx> and some space 21:11:06 <TrueBrain> ah, yes 21:11:07 <TrueBrain> space 21:11:11 <Warod> how much space? 21:11:11 <TrueBrain> I'm in space!! 21:11:16 * krinn think TrueBrain need an excuse to slaps someone anyway 21:11:19 <planetmaker> and some bandwidth ;-) 21:11:20 <TrueBrain> 100GB, I always yell 21:11:32 <TrueBrain> but you only want a selective mirror, not? 21:11:38 <TrueBrain> so only release and latest nightly? 21:11:51 <Warod> yeah, that would be the most meaningful 21:11:56 <Ammler> osx nightlies only 21:12:03 <TrueBrain> so that is < 1GB 21:12:07 <TrueBrain> 500MB atm 21:12:14 <TrueBrain> so say 5GB, and I will be more than happy 21:12:19 <Warod> don't really see why we should keep the old stuff there.. that nobody downloads anyways. :) 21:12:22 <planetmaker> no bananas? 21:12:27 <TrueBrain> owh, bananas 21:12:28 <TrueBrain> good point 21:12:38 <TrueBrain> adds 240 MiB 21:12:39 <TrueBrain> so yeah 21:12:45 <planetmaker> zbase will be 250MB. ogfx+trains 150MB 21:12:47 <planetmaker> etc. 21:12:48 <TrueBrain> Warod: yeah, we will be downgrading all mirrors in what they serve 21:12:51 <planetmaker> so easily a few GB, TrueBrain 21:12:54 <TrueBrain> old content will just come from our own server, which is fine 21:13:03 <planetmaker> zbase WILL be popular 21:13:10 <TrueBrain> owh, yeah, forgot about 32bpp ... 21:13:16 <Warod> TrueBrain: Yeah. That kind of mirroring is much easier to come by. :) 21:13:19 <TrueBrain> euh ... I guess I will put the minimal requirement to 10GB then :P 21:13:41 <TrueBrain> Warod: yeah; we have a few people that dont mind hosting the 45k files we serve atm 21:13:45 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/stats.pdf more long running 'stats' on downloads 21:13:47 <TrueBrain> but for most people it is unneeded :P 21:13:49 <Warod> TrueBrain: yeah. Not a prob. Even the 100 GB would not be the problem if I did this 'offically'. :P 21:14:07 <TrueBrain> well, it would be lovely if you can cook something up 21:14:12 <Warod> TrueBrain: We do mirror all the public map data of whole country... 21:14:21 <Ammler> does the new mirror script also autoskip temporarly unavailable hosts? 21:14:21 <Warod> TrueBrain: About 4 TB worth of data. :) 21:14:35 <TrueBrain> depends on your word "temporary" 21:14:42 <TrueBrain> it contains all the hosts to which it could rsync last 21:14:45 <TrueBrain> I might add http checks later 21:14:49 <TrueBrain> Warod: lolz ;) 21:14:50 <Ammler> going offline without telling you :-) 21:15:18 <TrueBrain> atm it just replaces the current balancer 21:15:22 <TrueBrain> but is more reactive and more clever 21:15:25 <TrueBrain> it has filters 21:15:28 <TrueBrain> and uses JSON! 21:15:36 <Ammler> like the issue with peters mirror lately 21:17:46 <TrueBrain> it doesnt have the intention to fix that atm 21:17:52 <TrueBrain> if it rsyncs, it assumes http works 21:17:54 * Rubidium finds it quite interesting that the average number of downloads on Monday and Tuesday are the same 21:17:57 <TrueBrain> so downtime can still be 24h 21:19:36 <Warod> you could do a poller which only fetches a header. :P 21:21:07 <Ammler> the issue might be that the balancer then prefers such hosts, because they don't produce traffic 21:23:28 <Warod> but I'll have to get some sleep. :S 21:23:29 <TrueBrain> in time I might add a check, which does a HEAD call to a mirror once every N minutes 21:23:35 <TrueBrain> but .. not today :) 21:23:38 <TrueBrain> sleep well Warod :) 21:24:09 <Warod> I definitely hope I do. ;D 21:24:23 <Warod> Hell of a week. :P 21:24:46 <Warod> and the hotel sucked... days were too damn long. :P 21:24:54 <TrueBrain> hehe 21:25:03 <Ammler> depends how you sum the traffic for the balancer, it could be an issue 21:25:04 <Warod> was only one day at home last week really. :S 21:25:24 <TrueBrain> ugh; hotel life, its a bitch 21:25:33 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I dont understand what you try to say? 21:25:57 <Ammler> if a host is down, it doesn't produce traffic, so the balancer sends all request there 21:26:27 <TrueBrain> how do you think the balancer knows traffic? 21:26:37 <Warod> Ammler: When the host check is implemented it'll be dropped out of the pool in few minutes if it doesn't respond to the requests properly. 21:26:55 <TrueBrain> it is not like we measure how much the client is really using ;) 21:27:06 <TrueBrain> when I redirect a client to a mirror, I add the size of the file to its usage 21:27:10 <Ammler> so you simply count the "clicks"? 21:27:16 <TrueBrain> even if the client aborts, for al lI care, the bandwidth was used 21:27:23 <Warod> but now.. the sleep -> 21:27:25 <Warod> nn 21:27:26 <TrueBrain> sleep well! 21:27:44 <Ammler> ok, then it might be even a kind of solution for the host is down too 21:28:48 <TrueBrain> I mean, there is not really another way to measure 'traffic' 21:28:52 <TrueBrain> unless we instal shit on each mirror 21:28:56 <TrueBrain> which is a no-go for many of them :) 21:29:47 <Ammler> true, and if you could check, if it really worked, you could also disable it :-) 21:30:36 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:31:10 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:55:22 <Terkhen> good night 21:55:29 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-7-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:55:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 21:55:46 <__ln__> yes it is, finally getting back the lost hour 21:56:16 <TrueBrain> where did you lose it? 21:56:54 <glx> it will be back in 3 hours 21:58:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "where were you when you lost it, 6 months ago?" 21:58:38 <TrueBrain> 7 21:58:39 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:58:40 <TrueBrain> :D 21:58:55 <glx> indeed 7 :) 21:59:03 <TrueBrain> Winter time only lasts for 5 months 21:59:57 <Eddi|zuHause> right... 22:00:00 <__ln__> the whole idea is absurd 22:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that never stopped anybody :p 22:00:38 <TrueBrain> hihi; that is funny because it is true :D 22:01:18 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-115-60.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:01:47 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-131.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:06:12 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:29:26 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:35:03 <TrueBrain> programmed for 10+ hours straight 22:35:09 <TrueBrain> and I wonder why I am tired :P 22:35:11 <TrueBrain> hahahaha 22:35:59 <planetmaker> :-) I guess you earned your sleep then 22:36:42 <TrueBrain> yeah; guess I delay launching the new balancer till tomorrow :P 22:36:56 <TrueBrain> the new stats page is AWESOME 22:38:52 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-172-187-158.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:40:04 <planetmaker> new stats page? 22:40:07 <planetmaker> for bananas? 22:40:14 <TrueBrain> http://test.binaries.openttd.org/stats 22:40:15 <TrueBrain> no 22:40:17 <TrueBrain> for the balancer 22:41:56 <TrueBrain> it tells exactly when the next sync will be 22:42:00 <TrueBrain> what mirrors are doing 22:42:07 <TrueBrain> if they are synced, broken, inactive, ... 22:42:28 <TrueBrain> and, and I really like that, the bandwidth in week and day 22:42:31 <TrueBrain> instead of: since startup 22:46:23 <TrueBrain> now you are supposed to say: wow, nice! 22:46:25 <TrueBrain> :P :D 22:48:54 <planetmaker> yup, I can say that. Looks very nice :-) 22:49:36 <Chris_Booth> cool 22:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> bah 3 blue people talking always confuses me 22:53:51 <TrueBrain> 680 lines of code ... 22:53:55 <TrueBrain> 20k chars .. 22:54:06 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, is turquoise, tb pink and cb red 22:55:44 <TrueBrain> hint: never start inotify with ALL_EVENTS 22:55:51 <TrueBrain> when you start 3 rsyncs, it will complain :D 22:56:00 <TrueBrain> (it also triggers events for OPEN, CLOSE, READ ...) 23:02:26 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-92-166.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:04:02 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-172-187-158.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:51 <TrueBrain> well, time for some sleep I guess; nn 23:06:50 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:08:50 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-7-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:26 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 23:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> why do i keep hitting the "keep me logged in" button in the forums, when it throws me outevery few days anyway? 23:13:13 <Wolf01> 'night 23:13:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:21:04 <supermop> on opera at home, it never keeps me logged in 23:21:24 <supermop> on opera at work, it's kept me logged in for about 2 years 23:22:30 <supermop> will the town in the title game grow if you leave it on long enough? 23:22:49 <glx> probably 23:23:22 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:27 <supermop> i've seen a plane crash 23:24:31 *** KritiK [~Maxim@128-72-40-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:25:00 <planetmaker> it's a normal game, supermop 23:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> with a handful hacky exceptions 23:25:57 <supermop> timetabling anything without departureboards is so frustrating 23:27:01 <supermop> played a bit of mp with FLHerne_ though and that was fun! 23:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. so make the departure bords trunk-worthy! 23:29:04 <Eddi|zuHause> timetables should be about macromanagement, not micromanagement 23:29:33 *** FLHerne_ [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:31:11 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:32:57 <supermop> i just enjoy timing trains so that flat junctions ans station throats are clear 23:51:03 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-64-63.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:53:25 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host31-51-108-249.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]