Log for #openttd on 11th December 2012:
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00:51:50  <InducTrackerOTTD> Anyone know what the age limit is for buying shares in the game?
00:54:56  <V453000> InducTrackerOTTD: why dont you see
00:55:05  <V453000> it is great for anything game mechanics related
00:55:19  <InducTrackerOTTD> Not great, but vaguely adequate
00:55:30  <V453000> I always found everything there
00:56:18  <InducTrackerOTTD> You must never search for everything but the obvious stuff then =)
00:56:33  <V453000> no I just use the search box
00:56:43  <V453000> typing company shares gave me quite a clear result
00:56:55  <InducTrackerOTTD> The existence of search box does not make info magically appear
00:57:09  <V453000> sort of does
00:57:29  <InducTrackerOTTD> Exactly, you might hope that it does, but it doesn't
00:57:49  <V453000> did you even try to search for company shares?
00:57:56  <V453000> the very first link almost mentions it
00:58:09  <V453000> and when you read the actual page of the link, it does say it precisely
00:58:32  <InducTrackerOTTD> "almost mention" is not mentioning it. Altho I see what you mean now
00:58:45  <InducTrackerOTTD> Grah, more stuff to put on my "fix the wiki" list
00:59:03  <V453000> You also have to wait for the company to get old enough before buying 25% or a full take over. This age is about                      <- makes it kind of obvious
00:59:04  <InducTrackerOTTD> info in the wrong articles is useless, normally
00:59:17  <InducTrackerOTTD> The error message told me as much already
00:59:19  <V453000> it is the info about the setting, looks correct to me
00:59:41  <InducTrackerOTTD> the correct place for it is in the economy article, which is trying to cover share trading in detail
00:59:46  <InducTrackerOTTD> in insufficient detail
01:00:02  <V453000> there is no share trading detail, you buy 25% done
01:00:09  <InducTrackerOTTD> no
01:00:11  <InducTrackerOTTD> three is
01:00:15  <V453000> idk what else there is to talk about
01:00:30  <InducTrackerOTTD> "you buy increments of 25%, after you wait 7 years"
01:00:46  <InducTrackerOTTD> Hmm, where to bookmark under
01:04:56  <InducTrackerOTTD> Probably shouldn't be ottding, but sleeping
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01:26:21  <drac_boy> just had to wonder about it but how much can you vary the train runcosts by?
01:26:29  <drac_boy> (for your own newgrfs)
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01:27:20  <InducTrackerOTTD> Infinity?
01:28:45  <drac_boy> heh so hmm it wouldn't be hard to code something approaching a hybrid battery-diesel locomotive where its almost nil runcost if just completely stopped?
01:29:02  <drac_boy> for example that is
01:30:06  <InducTrackerOTTD> with battery electric hybrid your train would be better off with turbine-electric fuel combustion stage
01:30:23  <InducTrackerOTTD> lighter, with potential for higher efficiency, and guaranteed higher fuel flexibility =)
01:30:45  <drac_boy> heh well my real point was it would for example only cost a few dollars to run at stopped idle but then come up to a few thousands dollars when its moving in any manner?
01:31:49  <InducTrackerOTTD> Holy level of detail batman
01:33:04  <Flygon> Before we even get into that level of detail
01:33:07  <Flygon> I have one suggestion
01:33:16  <Flygon> Limited ranges for non-overhead wire locomotives
01:33:45  <InducTrackerOTTD> drac_boy: some data you might care about in here perhaps?
01:33:48  <Flygon> Then you have distinctions between Steam, Condensed-steam, Diesel, and Electric locomotives :p
01:34:12  <InducTrackerOTTD> So fueling stations for 'em non-hooked up types?
01:34:17  <InducTrackerOTTD> watering/coaling/fueling
01:34:20  <Flygon> Yes
01:34:33  <drac_boy> flygon actually I can't remember any details but I recall one of the older green boxcab locomotive on SBB had a large flywheel setup in some manner so it pretty much could run under a few kilometers of lack of overhead power as like as if the wires were still there
01:34:45  <Flygon> Could add some depth, and perhaps even encourage extra stations that players would otherwise not build
01:34:55  <drac_boy> the limiting factor of course would be how long the flywheel inside could stay spun up for under the generator's backload
01:35:21  <Flygon> drac_boy: That makes perfect sense. Protection from both power outages.
01:35:25  <drac_boy> was a bit weird for me to see that photo at first .. it was running with pantographs down!!
01:35:40  <drac_boy> InducTrackerOTTD mm thanks
01:35:55  <InducTrackerOTTD> I think the extra stations for networks/lines will come naturally with cargo destination patch merging to trunk
01:36:10  <Flygon> Though, all the limited range stuff would eventually end up doing is make people electrify everywhere...
01:36:19  <drac_boy> InducTrackerOTTD problem with the 'extra station' idea is what if players do not want to have to deal with fuels considering its a tycoon game not simulator game?
01:36:21  <Flygon> Electrification would need it's own limits...
01:36:34  <InducTrackerOTTD> cause if passengers/cargo only travel to their desired destinations... servicing more destinations becomes a priority
01:36:48  <Flygon> eg. Substations, power generation... and the fact that too many trains sucking power from overhead reduces power of all trains. ;)
01:37:17  <InducTrackerOTTD> Well, the game doesn't even have a power transmission or fuel consumption paradigm
01:37:28  <Flygon> Sort of
01:37:42  <Flygon> Don't aircraft have limited range mechanics?
01:37:49  <InducTrackerOTTD> Might be worth your time nagging about simutrans being an unplayable pile of non-user-interface, for variety passtime fun
01:37:55  <drac_boy> flygon thats only because its too easy to calculate airplane routes
01:37:56  <InducTrackerOTTD> complaining about it as a passtime that is
01:37:58  <InducTrackerOTTD> =)
01:38:15  * drac_boy smacks InducTrackerOTTD because I actually like simutrans -_-
01:38:15  <Flygon> drac_boy: Then plan your routes carefully and use lots of waypoints
01:38:38  <drac_boy> flygon and what if I just want a **** tycoon game which is aptly called "tycoon" in the first place?
01:38:39  <drac_boy> :p
01:38:49  <drac_boy> heh
01:38:55  <Flygon> Simple
01:39:04  <Flygon> Allow the user to choose if he wants the mechanic enabled or not
01:39:17  <Flygon> Ruel 1 of user friendliness: Give the user freedom to choose
01:39:23  <drac_boy> well that works I guess...providing the user still can override a grf's default choice ;)
01:39:52  <Flygon> Of course
01:40:02  <InducTrackerOTTD> drac_boy: I haven't tried it in a while, but I'm pretty sure no sane and consistent behaviour was present in the building tools in version 111.2
01:40:56  <drac_boy> flygon but either way if you're serious about the fuel thing could you be mindful to add a few less known types just for the sake of the gameplay ... eg track pans for any likely-included steam locomotive tender scoops to be able to fill up water on the fly without stopping (waypoint-like behaviour there I guess)
01:40:59  <InducTrackerOTTD> Rule one of software development: too many variables, and the whole universe won't be able to compute/maintain/develop it =p
01:41:37  * InducTrackerOTTD wanders off to look up 'track pans'
01:42:04  <drac_boy> and the water towers would also have to be useable by the diesels too .. after all a lot of the early road diesels in usa pretty much used steam water on and off for their radiators
01:43:05  <Flygon> drac_boy: I'm serious
01:43:31  <Flygon> I'm still surprised on-the-fly scooping is a thing
01:43:34  <drac_boy> that was why many larger steam engine servicing tracks could easily dieselize just by adding a trackside fuel tank with pump .. since the water and sand were already present
01:43:38  <Flygon> It NEVER happened in Victoria
01:43:42  <Flygon> Neither was condensing
01:43:52  <Flygon> So the solution was to just build GIANT tenders
01:44:19  <drac_boy> flygon some of the NYC tenders were already big .. but they had a lot of coal and rather little water .. they depended on water scooping to make up the difference ;)
01:44:38  <drac_boy> nothing like sitting on ten or even twelve axles :P (just the tender, yes)
01:45:04  <Flygon> We had a lot of coal AND water :p
01:45:21  <Flygon> Or a lot of stops
01:45:26  <Flygon> It really depended on the line
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01:46:13  <drac_boy> yeah ..NYC was trying to squeeze quite a number of nonstop express in the name of making ever faster schedules between major cities .. leaving all the all-stopping trains to smaller locomotives making much more frequent load+fuel halts
01:47:10  * Flygon nod
01:47:20  <Flygon> Here, things were more segregated...
01:47:27  <Flygon> Well
01:47:29  <Flygon> It's complex
01:47:33  <drac_boy> so nothing like eg two trains scheduled to leave boston at same time but one arrives in next city 4-3/4 hours later while the other one only finally arrives 7-1/2 hours later ... and mm yeah guess what? the first one only made one single stop but otherwise it had to keep running 80+mph hard for a long time
01:47:36  <Flygon> It really depended on the line @_@
01:47:50  <drac_boy> the latter of course had to pick up a lot of coal and water manually ... but eh
01:47:57  <Flygon> And trains here rarely broke 70mph anyway :p
01:48:32  <drac_boy> flygon heh .. well the other thing in northeast usa was some locomotives intentionally had a small tender to lower the total train weight
01:48:55  <drac_boy> Atlantics were sometimes well known for rather short tenders
01:49:08  <drac_boy> not too surprising that PRR equipped some of theirs' with scoops
01:49:08  <Flygon> I'm surprised the solution wasn't just "MORE POWER"
01:49:26  <drac_boy> flygon..more power means more cost which was not economical for only 2-4 coaches :)
01:49:39  <Flygon> Yes, but, AMERICA
01:50:01  <drac_boy> thats why when a train needed more PRR just scheduled a K4 on the head instead .. it was basically "one step up" from the Atlantic
01:50:04  <Flygon> Here... well, eh
01:50:18  <Flygon> Less coaches just meant less powerful locomotive
01:50:41  <drac_boy> interestingly enough it was the problem and cost of doubleheaded K4's that caused PRR to seriously try their T1 locomotives ... but of course we know how short-lived these were
01:51:11  <InducTrackerOTTD> Don't you mean: yes, but Scotty!
01:51:12  <Flygon> A shame, too
01:51:16  <Flygon> The T1 was brilliant
01:51:29  <drac_boy> btw flygon..a lot of photos would show only two or three heavyweight coaches behind an Atlantic ... they never ever had more than three without needing assist or being replaced with a different locomotive
01:51:49  <Flygon> VR should have imported one to replace the S-class for the Spirit of Progress... 138kmph to 200kmph upgrade much? :D
01:51:56  <drac_boy> goes to show how two large axles had their pro and con ... depending on schedules and loading
01:52:07  <Flygon> Except the line wasn't designed for post-115km/h :p
01:52:20  <drac_boy> heh
01:53:19  <Flygon> Cue trains having paper recorders with suspiciously little amounts of paper
01:53:37  <drac_boy> flygon one of the many issues with the T1 was that sometimes it was rather slippery...and for being a mallet (in loose term) that was always a difficult thing to control if its only one set rather than both sets that are slipping when you only have one single throttle lever to regulate both :-s
01:54:13  <Flygon> O.o
01:54:19  <Flygon> How the heck do you avoid slips then?
01:54:40  <drac_boy> flygon by cutting back throttle to *both* set of drivers .. which of course then make the non-slipping drivers lose their work :|
01:54:58  <drac_boy> a reason they were not so popular even with shorter trains
01:55:26  <Flygon> VR probably wouldn't have handled it well, then :p
01:55:56  <Flygon> The only place I can think of, in Australia, that articulated locomotives even happened was New South Wales... and that's a stretch
01:56:01  <drac_boy> the funny thing is that when diesels took over the highspeed expresses ... the T1's got knocked down to lowly heavy locals for a short time which meant less maintenance which only made them fail ever more
01:56:32  <drac_boy> nothing like seeing a T1 slowly crawl up to a red signal with a mashed mix of different heavyweight coaches and ex-boxcar baggage wagons
01:56:53  <Flygon> Ouch
01:56:58  <Flygon> Same things happened here... Diesels came
01:57:10  <drac_boy> the T1 were not so graceful with such trains unlike most other express locomotives which still could work certain locals just fine....
01:57:13  <Flygon> And steam locos intended for high speed expresses got reduced to shunters
01:57:46  <InducTrackerOTTD> Are you two ancient wizards? O.O
01:57:54  <Flygon> We foam a lot
01:58:03  <drac_boy> of course theres nothing like watching a high-wheeled 4-8-2 hauling an all-heavyweight train of one baggage/coach and three coaches at a speed too fast for the old branchline rails ... heh :)
01:58:05  <Flygon> He knows about NW USA railways
01:58:13  <Flygon> I know about Vic, Aus railways :p
01:58:18  <drac_boy> and btw flygon here's something else...
01:58:31  <drac_boy> you know of the wartime 2-10-0 german steam locomotives? (the big one built for fast heavy trains)
01:58:43  <Flygon> Yes?
01:58:59  <drac_boy> flygon well some of them had rather interesting duties that were not always photographed...
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02:00:11  <drac_boy> like how about a fairly-well-kept 2-10-0 hauling just only two 3-axle coaches up the slight grade on a well kept double track branchline through the rural mountain?
02:00:19  <drac_boy> kinda a lot of power for such a small train heh :)
02:00:29  <InducTrackerOTTD> drac_boy: got a name for that class?
02:00:45  <drac_boy> InducTrackerOTTD I think so..let me check my class id list for german again...
02:00:45  <Flygon> Heh
02:00:52  <Flygon> Perhaps it doubled as an engine movement?
02:01:10  <InducTrackerOTTD> "go there, here: take this with you"
02:01:50  <Flygon> I envy Europe/America and their 9001 engine sets :p
02:01:55  <Flygon> Australia has 0.1 sets :B
02:02:00  <Flygon> In OpenTTD
02:02:13  <Flygon> And most Australian OpenTTDers are New South Welsh..
02:02:36  <drac_boy> InducTrackerOTTD it was BR50 I believe
02:02:49  <Flygon> Which is a bit like Wales being the entire represenstation of Britian
02:02:51  <drac_boy> flygon nope it wasn't an engine move .. it ran this little train both directions :)
02:03:17  <Flygon> How odd
02:03:43  <InducTrackerOTTD> Thanks
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02:04:09  <InducTrackerOTTD> I envy people that can be bothered making custom trainsets
02:04:11  <drac_boy> flygon and which of I never knew it till I saw a photo a few weeks ago but german do indeed know what the term 'top and tail' is ... I actually found a photo of one train that was a 4-6-0 on the head .. a few coaches .. then another 4-6-0 running in reverse on the tail .. some more reading later it turned out that this particular route had no turnaround faculity so they just ran the longer trains like that to save troubles
02:04:21  <InducTrackerOTTD> most of 'em out there have way too many vehicles in 'em =D
02:04:35  <drac_boy> made sense tho...running tender-first would had imposed speed restrictions/etc ... so just put two locomotives back to back in the train :)
02:05:40  <Flygon> Here, we call that "push-pull"... except that steam locos implied only one locomotive was actually running
02:05:52  <Flygon> So it's technically not push-pull @_@
02:05:59  <drac_boy> heh
02:06:00  <InducTrackerOTTD> Looks like I found the one: DRB Class 50
02:06:38  <drac_boy> InducTrackerOTTD it was started in 1939 by nazi .. hence why it was considered a wartime class (among a few other numbers that ended up in more or less same years too)
02:07:23  <drac_boy> made sense tho...when you consider a single 2-10-0 having to haul several tanks flatcars .. lumbers ... ammo ... some coal ..etc all in one single long freight train unassisted
02:07:52  <Flygon> Nothing got built here during wartime... which is a shame
02:07:56  <InducTrackerOTTD> Hmm, this looks bizarrely familiar, perhaps that one toy loco I had lying around as a kid was based on those
02:07:58  <Flygon> WWII killed the H-class
02:08:14  <Flygon> Probably one of the most elegant unarticulated locomotives built in Australia
02:09:27  <drac_boy> flygon heh I don't know about canada but in usa the war board immedately restricted any completly new designs but allowed a few to be built as-is or with small modifications .. and of course (wonder how things would had been different otherwise) only allowed emd to produce the road diesels basically
02:09:40  <Flygon> I actually find it mildly surprising that the rest of the world kept designing new designs
02:09:42  <drac_boy> alco had to wait till 1945 to be able to produce anything again ... even the PA's
02:10:14  <drac_boy> and wagons were another matter... the last order for passenger cars was done in early 1941 then no more were allowed till post-war
02:10:33  <drac_boy> so pullman had to depend on a lot of their existing pools and many rebuilds to keep things moving
02:10:57  * Flygon smirk
02:11:04  <Flygon> Makes it sound like Australia's in wartime
02:11:13  <Flygon> We're CONSTANTLY short on passenger cars for locomotives
02:11:20  <drac_boy> even then the war board limited any overnight trains ... before finally saying that any short-distance sleeper trains had to stop for good
02:11:36  <Flygon> To the extent that sets build almost pre-1950 are being used still
02:12:00  <drac_boy> so that basically eg removed a 320 miles timetabled train NYC would had been running ... for the sake of keeping the sleepers in pool for the more critical longer distance routes
02:12:08  <Flygon> The solution according to the Vic Govt? Buy more (expensive) fast train railcars
02:12:27  <drac_boy> heh
02:12:30  <drac_boy> I don't want to ask :p
02:13:00  <Flygon> They intend to displace all locomotive hauled service with DMU's
02:13:05  <Flygon> All in a single class
02:13:17  <Flygon> Completely ignorig that the DMU's lack food facilities...
02:14:05  <Flygon> Wartime restrictions in the USA confuse me, either way
02:14:13  <Flygon> And to an extent, in Australia
02:14:26  <Flygon> Both countries are highly isolated, and lack good points to be invaded from
02:14:52  <Flygon> And in the case of Australia, most population centres are in regions that are the polar opposite to the rest of the world
02:14:58  * Flygon shrug
02:15:05  <Flygon> War is confusing
02:18:31  <Flygon> Buuut, yeah
02:18:34  <Flygon> Point is
02:18:43  <Flygon> I'm not sure
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02:22:31  <drac_boy> flygon about dmu and food facilities...
02:22:37  <drac_boy> do you mean a full diner-style kitchen?
02:23:28  <Flygon> I mean, something that serves cooked chicken rolls
02:24:36  <Flygon> ...I can't find photo
02:24:36  <Flygon>
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02:35:11  <drac_boy> mm
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02:37:02  <drac_boy> well I'm going to bed soon, see you another time ok?
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03:25:54  <Flygon> You know what I find strange?
03:26:01  <Flygon> They serve alcohol on aircraft, but not trains
03:26:12  <Flygon> In fact, you're not suppose to drink alcohol on trains here, fullstop...
03:26:28  <Flygon> ...luckily conductors turn blind eyes, unless the person is clearly disruptive p
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09:12:00  <dihedral> greetings
09:13:20  <NGC3982> Morning.
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12:15:17  <drac_boy> hi
12:25:48  <peter1138> hi
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12:41:00  <drac_boy> how doing?
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14:15:00  <drac_boy> hi
14:16:19  * drac_boy pokes stimrol with a rod just for some attention
14:16:21  <drac_boy> heh
14:19:43  <peter1138> you said rod
14:19:44  <peter1138> hurr hurr
14:19:56  <drac_boy> is an admin rod ;)
14:28:00  * drac_boy pokes stimrol plainly this time
14:28:01  <drac_boy> heh
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15:07:14  <Belugas> hello
15:08:02  * Belugas ordered Goldorak dvd set. Christmas gift to family. And self!
15:08:24  <drac_boy> heh
15:10:52  <V453000> hm ... Binary operator requires both operands to be integers of floats - I get this when having length: switch_length; and switch_lenght is a switch which checks vehicle_type_id, PARENT and outputs 4 or 8 based on which engine is leading ... can that actually be done?
15:11:35  <drac_boy> heh that long question confuses me V453000
15:12:27  <V453000> I would like to have 1 wagon which has length: 8; when attached ot train X and length: 4; with articulation for train Y
15:13:04  <V453000> and im wondering if I have to make two separate wagons
15:13:29  <V453000> or if a switch can handle both cases
15:16:21  <Pinkbeast> If I may ask, what's the wagon meant to be?
15:17:43  <peter1138> i don't think you can do the last case
15:17:59  <peter1138> articulation is done on creation, in which case it's not attached to anything
15:18:05  <V453000> idk how to answer that, 8/8 monorail wagon in case1, 2x4/8 wagon in case2
15:18:30  <V453000> I see
15:18:34  <V453000> hm
15:19:19  <V453000> so I have to make a new wagon item eh
15:19:25  <V453000> not a big issue I guess :)
15:22:18  <Pinkbeast> I mean, what if anything is the physical object you are trying to put into OTTD
15:23:21  <V453000> just wagons which have 2 parts? :D
15:23:33  <V453000> occasional faces, other funny stuff, ... :)
15:23:52  <V453000> just more NUTS stuff
15:24:04  <drac_boy>'re nutty ;)
15:24:06  <drac_boy> heh
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15:25:53  <drac_boy> V453000 seriously're you going along with that grf?
15:26:05  <V453000> what do you mean by that?
15:26:46  <drac_boy> just curious....doing any work on it...etc?
15:27:22  <V453000> sure, new versions come quite often lately
15:27:27  <V453000> 40th version in the works now :)
15:27:54  <V453000> just look at the newGRF, you should be able to see a lot of progress yourself, if not there is the changelog to be aware of changes :)
15:29:38  <V453000> the very original plan was to redraw all things first, then add new stuff, but I kind of get new ideas, often also wrapped around thevisual appearance ... so I add a lot of new things, instead of for example redrawing most rail trains (which is needed)
15:32:04  <drac_boy> heh never really had a look that much :->
15:32:20  <drac_boy> I do remember looking at the screenshot given of the rail vehicle list and there were so many silly names+shapes
15:32:22  <drac_boy> heh
15:34:11  <V453000> it is likely that a lot of things changed since ... feel free to join #openttdcoop Welcome Server, we use the set there quite often
15:35:34  <drac_boy> is there still a cat-lookalike unit? :)
15:35:39  <drac_boy> heh
15:38:23  <V453000> no :)
15:38:39  <drac_boy> either way I've had to leave it for some time due to other things but mm .. been slowly working on getting back to that old newgrf set I had been planning for a while
15:38:49  <drac_boy> might evetually finally make a tracking list later this week
15:41:50  <V453000> I just DO stuff when I feel like :)
15:42:00  <V453000> no lists no plans
15:43:30  <drac_boy> heh well the list would make it easier for others to have an idea what it is .. neverminding I'll need someone else to do the actual nfo work anyway :)
15:43:32  <drac_boy> so mm
15:47:25  <V453000> why nfo? :d
15:47:47  <V453000> NML is quite easy (even I managed to learn it somewhat)
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15:51:14  <V453000> if you want a wise hint for newGRF making, dont rely on others, expect that you will have to be the one who fulfills your ideas :P
15:53:39  <drac_boy> I'm not inclined on doing the whole code by hand so no thanks
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15:54:42  <V453000> what is your idea anyway?
15:57:49  <drac_boy> mm V453000 its kinda like a no-country generic vehicle set .. I mean the many ideas out there are good (nars, 2cc, etc) but they seem to all come down to the same problem of many vehicles for similar duty
15:58:18  <V453000> well that isnt a very specific idea :)
15:58:21  <drac_boy> already have many full sprites drawn as far as I can tell from my old folder
15:58:28  <V453000> follows good logic though
16:00:57  <drac_boy> yeah ... I still wonder about the planes tho but thats not in the task list right now tho :p
16:01:05  <V453000> I am just curious how exactly do you execute it
16:01:12  <drac_boy> (if I leave it may just about work with another plane grf then)
16:01:22  <V453000> nuts does kind of a lot of thigns already :)
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16:10:13  <drac_boy> is it ok if I just say wait for the public list V453000? :p
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16:12:53  <V453000> NO. :D
16:12:55  <V453000> :P
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16:17:14  <drac_boy> sorry V453000 :P
16:17:17  <drac_boy> heh
16:17:26  <drac_boy> anyway I need to go off for a few minutes tho
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16:46:16  <drac_boy> hi
16:46:21  * drac_boy pokes V453000 :P
16:46:29  <V453000> OMG HI
16:46:33  <V453000> :)
16:46:49  <drac_boy> heh heh
16:48:30  <drac_boy> what doing anyway? ;)
16:48:39  <V453000> coding new wagons what else :P
16:50:03  <drac_boy> heh
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16:52:53  <drac_boy> what are these wagons going to carry? ;)
16:53:42  <V453000> what would you expect? :)
16:53:52  <drac_boy> black smoke? :P
16:54:03  <V453000> everything
16:54:12  <drac_boy> heh heh
16:56:49  <V453000> with a lot of features which make it a lot more work, like randomizing every stupid hopper into 5 other hoppers so it looks nicer
16:56:52  <drac_boy> btw V453000 just asking but do you think articulated trains should be fixed consist or can be varied to an optional limit in the depot?
16:57:18  <V453000> fixed works for me
16:57:34  <V453000> articulated trains doesnt always mean it is one vehicle replicated
16:57:40  <V453000> for example a big steamer with a tender is articulated too
16:58:23  <drac_boy> I kinda rather prefer some variable ..nothing like having one route that only needed a single 3-unit but another route that can do with 5+5 instead
16:59:01  <drac_boy> then again theres been many bombardier trams and emus that have had new intermidate cars added more than ten years later ... so nothing new there
17:01:05  <V453000> if you have an articulated wagon which total length is half a tile, you can just use 5 of them for 2.5 tiles , etc?
17:01:23  <V453000> you dont need smaller units if your engines are 0.5 tiles long
17:01:27  <V453000> at least that is how NUTS treats it
17:01:39  <drac_boy> well articulated wagons is're able to add as many as you want to .. but articulated trainsets are another matter tho (and thats what I'm talking about now)
17:01:48  <V453000> the articulated wagons are there only to have all wagons equally long
17:02:27  <V453000> so for example you always have an engine plus X wagons ... because if wagons are 2 times shorter, they are just bought in pairs of articulated wagons
17:02:32  <V453000> articulated trainsets?
17:03:53  <drac_boy> yeah like eg this old one  but mind you that one was eventually expanded into a 5-unit set before finally being retired due to being too inflexible naturally
17:04:42  <drac_boy> german had many types of them too ... I'm sure uk probably has something too .. etc :)
17:06:01  <V453000> idk what you mean by that, but if you need specific wagons for a certain train it is easy to just make a switch for the wagons - the wagons adapt their visuals based on which train they are attached to
17:06:32  <V453000> my passenger wagons have this switch with over 1000 results
17:07:59  <drac_boy> V453000 mm I actually mean buying a locomotive in the buy list and it automatically comes fixed with some # of wagons
17:08:14  <drac_boy> thats an articulated trainset
17:08:15  <V453000> I know you do
17:08:59  <V453000> but effecitvely it does the same as the normal method, but with some difficulties I imagine
17:09:38  <V453000> im not sure how articulated parts work for example in HEQS trams and if that is usable for trains too
17:09:51  <V453000> but I dont think it is a better solution than multiple wagons ... RVs just have it because they dont have wagons
17:12:37  <drac_boy> yeah thats least 4LV and HEQS have limited amount of capacity refit which does make it more bearable
17:13:18  <drac_boy> nothing like having one 300 tonnes and another 90 tonnes freight tram next to each others even although they came from the same rv id :)
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17:14:30  <drac_boy> of course theres still that old problem with articulated buses and slopes tho .. they look weird :)
17:14:40  <drac_boy> can't blame the game tho ;)
17:14:54  <V453000> articulated trainset sounds fancy but I think it would run into some unnecessary problems, if it is even possible to make
17:15:27  <drac_boy> well its already been done a few times more or less
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17:16:00  <V453000> with flexible amount of articualted parts for trains?
17:16:27  <drac_boy> btw I'm not complaining to anyone in particular but I sometimes do wonder why certain articulated wagons can't be bought as single-wagon versions too ... ah well
17:16:50  * drac_boy points out that doublestack spine cars did not always come in articulated sets for one obvious example
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17:17:12  <V453000> I think that is just fine
17:17:30  <V453000> the wagon for example has higher average capacity, but you can only use in some train configurations
17:18:04  <drac_boy> V453000 what happens is you buy one diesel locomotive..then buy two 5-spine wagons...end up with only enough room for one single wagon but .. no the buy list refuse to give you one even although it exists in real life already
17:18:50  <drac_boy> even the japan consist still had single sections too
17:19:07  <drac_boy> (I don't think I have to mention north america....too obvious to anyone heh)
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17:20:25  <V453000> what exists in real life is really, really irrelevant to me
17:20:36  <V453000> you just fill the train with one different wagon :)
17:20:50  <V453000> OR use a configuration of engines/wagons/train length which allows to have only engines+ those wagons
17:20:56  <V453000> player choice
17:21:01  <V453000> :)
17:21:05  <drac_boy> V453000 the problem is...wheres a single wagon that can carry two containers? ;)
17:21:14  <V453000> ?
17:21:21  <drac_boy> even the flatcar refuses to be refit that way .. so its useless
17:21:33  <V453000> you just add any other goods wagon?
17:21:45  <V453000> if there is no other goods wagon, well, then you just have to use the right configuration
17:22:10  <drac_boy> right configuration would be 100% length 100% doublestack :P
17:22:14  <drac_boy> heh
17:22:49  <V453000> I personally dont use any such wagons because I think it is best to keep all wagons the same length
17:23:00  <V453000> for example for autoreplace purposes, and generally for the order
17:24:15  <drac_boy> V453000 'same length' means singles only
17:24:30  <drac_boy> and even then its still touchy .. one old wagon could be of 22px length and new one is 26px instead
17:25:55  <V453000> same length could also mean articulated wagons, but their total length is the same
17:25:59  <V453000> see NUTS. :)
17:26:13  <V453000> well you have to draw the wagons accordingly of course
17:38:32  <drac_boy> mm anyway I'll leave you to go nutty as usual ... I'm going off for lunch now :p
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17:55:19  <frosch123> <- do you think that might help anyone? or is it pointless, since it does not tell how to get a dev snapshot of the baseset?
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18:23:42  <Mimik_fc7> hi all
18:27:47  <Mimik_fc7> everyone game to Openttd?
18:28:56  <Mimik_fc7> today im open some server for play to online, if you want play wellcome to me
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18:31:24  <frosch123> you should tell use which one of the 221 servers is yours, and what makes it different to the other 220 :)
18:33:32  <lobster> I almost can't play online nowadays
18:33:45  <lobster> gotten too used to build while paused
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18:37:24  <peter1138> heh
18:37:46  <Mimik_fc7> i want make my server as better
18:37:53  <Mimik_fc7> now im use as beta-test
18:38:18  <Mimik_fc7> im change time in game, because years goin very quick
18:39:09  <Mimik_fc7> now while coming one really day in game goin to just one week
18:39:57  <Mimik_fc7> for play need download my client, or compile your client with my cycle parameters
18:40:01  <peter1138> i understand the words but not the order...
18:40:34  <Mimik_fc7> because my english can be bad, sorry
18:42:01  <Mimik_fc7> if you want check download my client in
18:42:18  <Mimik_fc7> ip for gamin
18:43:35  <Mimik_fc7> or compile you client
18:43:37  <Mimik_fc7> static const int DAY_TICKS         =  974; ///< ticks per day static const int DAYS_IN_YEAR      = 365; ///< days per year static const int DAYS_IN_LEAP_YEAR = 366; ///< sometimes, you need one day more...  static const int STATION_RATING_TICKS     = 585; ///< cycle duration for updating station rating static const int STATION_ACCEPTANCE_TICKS = 750; ///< cyc
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18:46:07  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24817 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2012-12-11 18:45:54 UTC)
18:46:08  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:09  <DorpsGek> basque - 9 changes by lutxiketa
18:46:10  <DorpsGek> croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
18:46:11  <DorpsGek> french - 2 changes by glx
18:46:12  <DorpsGek> greek - 18 changes by Evropi
18:46:13  <DorpsGek> malay - 25 changes by richz
18:46:14  <DorpsGek> polish - 24 changes by wojteks86
18:47:20  *** dada78641 is now known as dada_
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19:06:43  <Wolf01> evenink o/
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19:24:26  * andythenorth has found an OS X port of original shareware doom
19:24:28  <andythenorth> see you in 2013
19:25:16  <kjetil_> We not play something fun like Doom Legacy ?
19:25:20  <kjetil_> Why*
19:25:24  *** kjetil_ is now known as Kjetil
19:25:33  <andythenorth> because it's not original Doom?
19:25:43  <andythenorth> now I need to find a port of wadauth
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19:35:33  <peter1138> chocolatedoom is pretty good
19:35:36  <peter1138> faithful
19:35:48  <peter1138> they're all based off the original source anyway
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19:57:23  <Terkhen> hello
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20:45:45  <NGC3982>
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21:28:03  <glx> NGC3982: the original video is better
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21:28:22  <drac_boy> hi
21:28:33  <NGC3982> glx: Haven't seen it. *googles*
21:29:37  <glx> NGC3982:
21:31:47  <NGC3982> glx: Gosh.
21:31:53  <NGC3982> That's lovely is so many ways.
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22:05:06  <frosch123> night
22:05:09  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:17:39  <Eddi|zuHause> "this video is fucking censored because it contains fucking music. we are fucking sorry :/"
22:26:14  *** valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
22:27:42  <Terkhen> good night
22:32:32  <__ln___> if i ever spend more than a few weeks in germany, it seems having a proxy in finlend wouldn't be a bad idea.
22:32:54  <NGC3982> It's that bad i Germany?
22:32:56  <NGC3982> Surely not.
22:33:19  <__ln___> all music is forbidden, that's all
22:37:10  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: concerning music on youtube, it really is that bad.
22:38:06  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: My condolences.
22:38:09  <__ln___> and if i say "spotify" the majority of germans would say "what?"
22:38:34  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: i seem to remember that spotify actually started in germany...
22:38:41  <NGC3982> Spotify is Swedish.
22:38:58  <__ln___> Eddi|zuHause: zomg, good for you if it did
22:39:52  <__ln___> NGC3982: we know, ludde was amongst the people who created it.
22:41:24  <NGC3982> Ludde?
22:41:58  <__ln___> NGC3982: The guy who disassembled Transport Tycoon Deluxe and made a clone called "Open TTD"
22:42:13  <NGC3982> Oh, neat.
22:43:16  <__ln___> he was giving out spotify invites to people on this very channel when spotify had been open for public for less than a week.
22:43:37  <NGC3982> Oh
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23:37:32  <Wolf01> 'night
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