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00:00:52 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 00:07:51 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:07:51 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:30 <drac_boy> ahhh that particular steam locomotive again! 00:08:47 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 00:09:39 <Supercheese> Any GIMP scripts to batch-convert images to the TTD palette? 00:10:14 <drac_boy> mm eddi I had known about the DRG 61 .. just didn't realized its train consist was also a bit unique too 00:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, a high-speed engine with builtin tender, built in a series of two, but rudely stopped by wartime operational cutbacks in express service 00:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: it was basically the steam-engine's answer to the "flying trains" (high-speed diesel trainsets) 00:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> on many lines, speed records of this time are still not broken to this day (operating speed, not top speed) 00:12:43 <drac_boy> mm 00:13:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the times of the Henschel-Wegmann-Zug between Berlin and Dresden are one of them 00:13:26 <Kjetil> one of the cross country railways are now slower than in the steam/early diesel days 00:14:21 <drac_boy> kjetil heh usa history book has a lot of these .. especially the fast limited-stop train from calfornia to new york ... now the best amtrak can do is not even anywhere half close to it one bit at all 00:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause> a lot of that is due to the special historic development of berlin, though 00:15:06 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@5ad287f4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:41 <Kjetil> drac_boy: lowely 00:15:45 <Kjetil> lovely* 00:16:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the historic route from dresden to "Berlin, Anhalter Bahnhof" was blocked by "the wall", and some parts of this track are not reactivated (yet) for long-distance usage (the S-Bahn section was reactivated) 00:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> which means the trains now take a larger detour 00:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause> also, they have an additional stop now 00:17:43 <drac_boy> kjetil yeah and even canada had a few things to note too such as 100+mph services along the corridor but now the F40PH and Genesis barely even get close to that (and the jettrain that was promised twice still doesn't exist except as stored blueprints at bombardier's offices last I heard) 00:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and the "Anhalter Bahnhof" was closed, now they have a new central station ("Hauptbahnhof"), but the difference of that is probably marginal 00:19:15 <Kjetil> drac_boy: heh. The ministry for transportation announced today that nationwide highspeed trains were postponed, and they will work on improving the service around the capital 00:19:29 <Kjetil> (Norway) 00:19:33 <drac_boy> mm 00:20:14 <drac_boy> Kjetil is norway where they're also laying the all-new route further closer to the sea to improve service connections? something about it having been set further back inland due to war bombing concerns a long time ago 00:20:24 <drac_boy> or am I thinking of another nearby country now 00:20:47 <Kjetil> I miss the days when they would commit to building a railroad which cost several times the national budget 00:21:30 <drac_boy> Kjetil you want to know what used to cost a lot back then that it went through at least 2 bankruptions in its life? :) 00:22:44 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: if you talk at scales like california-new york, it doesn't make sense to offer a "fast train service", because even the fastest they could do would be trumped by an order of magnitude with planes 00:23:18 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:23:20 <Kjetil> they haven't built railroad here since the ehm.. nazist left. (minor exaggeration, but now far from the truth :P) 00:23:53 <drac_boy> well they had it carded for like somewhere within 35 hours or so. which was enough for to leave late night and wake up to watch the mid-usa mountain scenes then sleep again and wake up stopped at the final station 00:24:13 <drac_boy> later trains were stretched out longer... 50+ hours in some cases .. not very good idea for business :-s 00:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: or you can fly in 5 hours 00:24:40 <drac_boy> try find some real food or even any sleeping time tho :) 00:24:48 <Eddi|zuHause> for 1/5th of the price 00:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: i mean it doesn't make sense to try to offer such a service again. 00:26:09 <Kjetil> +free groping by the TSA 00:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the investments would far outreach the possible gains 00:26:27 <drac_boy> eddi thats like meaning noone wants to go crosscountry without having to take their car on the road? 00:26:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BCFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:27:21 <drac_boy> even the one amtrak autotrain does a lot of business that they often have to turn down people at times but the gov doesn't want to provide the fund to order another complete set (its made up partially of several full-length double deck auto carrier cars from ttx just as well) 00:27:45 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 00:27:59 <drac_boy> Kjetil heh I have heard of some issues with TSA and the railroads before 00:28:11 <drac_boy> even amtrak sometimes have a bit of relationship problem with them too 00:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: "full train" still doesn't mean it's economically balanced 00:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> just google for "Breisgau S-Bahn" if you want to have a laugh :) 00:30:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a short-distance line that was on the brink of closing, they ordered a few railcars (RS1) and within a few years the number of passengers quadrupled 00:30:12 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:25 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 00:30:28 <drac_boy> Kjetil I don't even want to talk about that silly thing about uk refusing to be part of the europe zone and you wonder why the choices of destinations on eurostar is crappy :) 00:30:40 <Eddi|zuHause> now they're operating with 6 railcars coupled together, and can't turn a profit 00:30:54 <Supercheese> Nvm about GIMP script, found it 00:31:14 <drac_boy> supercheese trying to convert handmade sprites into grf-compactible ones? 00:31:28 <Supercheese> Well, I had GIMP spit out a bunch of .pngs 00:31:44 <Supercheese> but they weren't properly palletized 00:31:49 <drac_boy> oh ok 00:32:00 <Supercheese> so I wanted to batch convert them to the DOS palette, and I found a script to do so 00:32:09 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=47530&start=80#p934898 00:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: beware of magic flickering pixels 00:32:44 <Supercheese> Yes, fortunately my sprites are nowhere near the action colors 00:32:54 <Supercheese> also, I could simply have used a no-action-color palette to avoid that ;) 00:33:25 <drac_boy> hmm ok thinking about it I'll not bother with articulated anything .. except for the one early express diesel railcar consist I've somewhat partially drawn yet 00:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: just saying... 00:33:41 <Supercheese> Yes, sound advice :) 00:33:49 <Supercheese> (or, well, graphics advice :P ) 00:34:10 <Flygon> Eddi: Sounds just like the VLocity train here 00:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: several people fell in this trap before :) 00:34:35 <Supercheese> As have I... 00:34:39 <Flygon> VR / V/Line's had been consistantly falling from 1950 to 2004 here 00:34:42 <drac_boy> hi flygon-from-the-country-of-crappy-failing-trains 00:34:47 <drac_boy> how're you anyway? heh 00:35:02 <Supercheese> Upside-down as usual, I presume :P 00:35:25 <Flygon> Then they introduced the VLocity train... and patronage EXPLODED because everyone thought they were bullet trains (and they did, indeed, bring improved timetables, and they also helped upgrade some lines) 00:35:59 <Flygon> Because of this, they're now a huge budget liability because they weren't intended to be the primary train in Victoria (partially due to maintainence costs) 00:36:06 <Flygon> drac_boy: Am well 00:39:24 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 00:39:24 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:03 <drac_boy> do you always have to use cargo class for rail wagons? just asking 00:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: the RS1 railcar doesn't quite match the description of a bullet train :) 00:40:38 <Flygon> Eddi: Neither does the VLocity train. But the Govt hyped the inaccurate shit out of it. 00:41:01 <Flygon> 160km/h on Victorian tracks, theoretically could go 200km/h if given good conditions 00:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: you don't have to use cargo classes. you can make wagons for each cargo individually 00:41:27 <drac_boy> yeah thats what I had thought, thanks 00:41:41 <drac_boy> wanted some wagons to be specific regardingly of industries used 00:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: but that will make it difficult if an industry set introduces a new cargo 00:42:24 <drac_boy> mm not too worried about that one for now...just getting it work first then figure out future bugs next :) 00:43:01 <Flygon> I'd bet money the RS1 matches 160km/h :p 00:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: you should have a wagon for each cargo class (or more than one), then you can have special wagons for individual cargos 00:43:38 <Flygon> Oh, 120km/h... geeze. This thing's beaten by a Sprinter @_@ 00:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadler_Regio-Shuttle_RS1 00:43:52 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:56 <drac_boy> Sprinter < Super Sprinter 00:43:57 <drac_boy> :p 00:44:01 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 00:44:36 <Flygon> drac_boy: V/Line probably ripped the name from Super Sprinter :p 00:45:26 <Flygon> http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4006/4699035755_7be584dda1_z.jpg 130km/h (145km/h w/ospeed) :p 00:47:18 <drac_boy> can I ask you something re grf industries flygon? 00:47:32 <Flygon> Sure, but I'd probably be unhelpful x3 00:48:12 <drac_boy> heh 00:48:38 <drac_boy> what do you think of towns having a warehouse (ecs have something rather similar after all) that accepts things like steel etc? 00:49:38 <Flygon> That's actually a pretty sensical idea 00:49:38 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:04 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 00:50:29 <drac_boy> mm ok then 00:52:18 <Flygon> Eddi: I find it intolerably unbelievable that Germany is capable of making slower DMU's than Australia @_@ 00:52:36 <Flygon> What the hell, Germany? 00:52:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: it's meant for small branch lines 00:53:03 <Flygon> It wouldn't have been ever through routed on a mainline? 00:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: often these lines have speed limits of 80 or 60 km/h anyway, sometimes even lower 00:53:15 <Flygon> Hmm... 00:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: even on a mainline it would be faster than most freight trains 00:54:02 <Flygon> Here, you'll get trains through routed quite often, and most pass. lines are at least of 100km/h stanard (only reason it'd be lower is because of level crossings) 00:54:07 <Flygon> Oh, wow... 00:54:16 <Flygon> Germany and Australia are very very different countries 00:54:24 <Flygon> Mainline freight would go over 100km/h here 00:54:35 <Flygon> Most locomotives are designed for at least 115km/h here 00:55:28 <Flygon> Perhaps the two country/state's rail systems just work differently? 00:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> freight trains are usually 100km/h nowadays, some aiming for 120km/h 00:55:53 <drac_boy> flygon what about clay mine >> kilns >> sell to town as GOOD cargos? 00:56:07 <Flygon> (non-passenger lines here do tend to be limited to 40 to 80 km/h here, though) 00:56:07 <drac_boy> I'm still doubting that idea...especially because its a low production industry in first place 00:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> mainline passenger service is aiming towards 160km/h 00:56:35 <Flygon> drac_boy: Change clay to very very wet mud coal and you have a Victoria scenarioo :p 00:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause> express trains 249km/h, with a few exceptions at 300km/h 00:56:51 <Flygon> srs though, not a bad idea 00:57:10 <Flygon> Eddi: The ICE is the envy of the world, let me reassure you x3 00:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: over here everybody is complaining how the ICE is inferior to the TGV 00:57:48 <Flygon> Pfft 00:57:55 <Flygon> Is that just because it's always 5 minute late? 00:58:08 <Flygon> Germans gonn hate V/Line's VLocity services then 00:58:39 <Flygon> (V/Line tends to be held up by Metro's EMUs, they share tracks) 00:58:54 <Eddi|zuHause> because it's always late, because it stops in every small province town, because the new trains don't get approved, because airconditioning breaks in summer, because ... 00:59:36 <Flygon> That last one is unacceptable 00:59:51 <Flygon> Your summers aren't very hot at all! :p 01:00:12 <Flygon> Well, even more reason for them to hate V/Line 01:00:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: the airconditioning was aimed at temperatures of 40°C, the last two summers were 42°C 01:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> or something like that 01:00:47 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:01:10 <Flygon> VLocity trains have to stop at small towns often here, too. Mainly for political reasons. I could argue that trains get approved too often, though, instead of a 160-225km/h Diesel locomotive design being approved (ICE-D plzkthx :p) 01:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> after a few people collapsed for heat-exhaustion, they started to close down wagons with broken airconditioning 01:01:20 <Flygon> (VLocity is a mantainence nightmare) 01:01:23 <Flygon> Oh, geeze 01:01:29 <Flygon> 42c... is actually pretty rough 01:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which means more upset people because their seat reservations fail 01:01:44 <Flygon> You won't get heat exhaustion here so much as very very uncomfortable people, though 01:01:45 <drac_boy> flygon the problem is that I'm already using clay for something else ... so I was just wondering :) 01:02:08 <Flygon> I suspect that if you've lived through 40c+ days consistantly, you get used to it 01:02:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and the rest of the train is overfull 01:02:30 <Flygon> I've never seen a VLocity carriage's aircon actually fail, though... perhaps they have better aircons? 01:02:41 <Flygon> drac_boy: Clay can have multiple uses 01:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: if it's 40°C on the outside, it'll be much warmer inside a train where you can't open a window 01:02:51 <drac_boy> flygon .. I already have it suggested for bricks 01:03:01 <drac_boy> so I'm just wondering about pottery-related goods too or not 01:03:13 <Flygon> Eddi: Your windows aren't even strongly tinted? 01:03:27 <Flygon> drac_boy: Can't primary industries have multiple secondary industries? 01:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: the trains are white, the windows are tinted. it's still getting warm in a wagon with 100 people inside and the sun shining on it 01:04:18 <Flygon> Hmm... 01:04:27 <Flygon> Perhaps the aircons in Germany are just weaker? 01:04:50 <drac_boy> flygon I'll prefer to keep the cargo list small .. so if clay can get reused somewhere else too thats good :) 01:04:56 <Eddi|zuHause> they promised the new airconditioning systems will tolerate 45°C :) 01:05:01 <Flygon> drac_boy: Good point 01:05:15 <Flygon> ( http://www.ptua.org.au/files/2008/bike-ban-small.jpg As a side note, when Metro tried to ban bicycles from trains... passengers rebelled) 01:05:26 <Flygon> Eddi: Only 45c? That's unacceptable 01:05:39 <Flygon> Tolerate 55-60c and then you're getting somewhere 01:06:07 <Flygon> I'm pretty sure that the VLine trains here are designed for that, due to the long distances they take... basically, it's a necessity 01:06:22 <Flygon> Metro EMUs and Yarra Trams aren't so lucky... aircon failure is rampant 01:06:47 <Flygon> Partially due to the age of the rollingstock, and in the case of the trams, it's very difficult to fit high power aircons onto them 01:07:27 <Flygon> Trams didn't used to have aircons, but they used to have every single window openable (the airflow really helped cool things down before the 90s)... but OH&S bans that now :( 01:08:09 <Flygon> One of the stupidest cases I've seen though, is Comeng carriages simultainiously having an aircon set to max on one end of the carriage, and heater set to max on the other 01:08:23 <Flygon> If I didn't know any better, I'd say they're trying to make a cyclone 01:08:51 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they needed the air circulation inside :) 01:09:00 <Flygon> Hahaha :p 01:09:20 <Flygon> As a sidenote to before 01:09:31 <Flygon> http://www.vgr.com.au/gallery/photo/headers/Dsc06908.jpg V/Line so tinted, it reflects everything :p 01:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have space problems, you could exchange all heaters for airconditionings and back every half year :) 01:10:16 <Flygon> That'd never happen 01:10:37 <Flygon> The Victorian Government would never be willing to cough up the cost, and there's a lack of both depot capacity and workers 01:10:51 <Flygon> Using tram stops as depots isn't unusual 01:12:14 <Flygon> ...oh geeze 01:12:51 <Flygon> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lc501/8303523650/ V/Line attempted to get rid of semaphores across their entire network (for sighting reasons)... as soon as they dwadle off their network? @_@ 01:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> "one of the next signals may be red" doesn't sound like good semantics ;) 01:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, there are "main signals" and "advance signals", where the "advance signal" indicates what the next main signal says, at stopping distance 01:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> between ~700 to ~1300m ahead, depending on speed limit 01:21:47 <drac_boy> heh this reminds me of a particular special classic trains issue centered around fast trains that I didn't keep anymore.... 01:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> max speed with signals is 160km/h 01:22:49 *** Ttech [ttech@has.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 01:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> above that you need in-cab-signalling 01:23:05 <drac_boy> one of the thing was that IC's mainline had been rated for 100mph trains which happened often especially the bananas special ... but when the signals were replaced it was only good for 79mph max (per ICC) because the original signal aspects had also told what the next block's indicator was 01:23:53 <drac_boy> and of course PRR had their very early in-cab signal repeaters which was obvious in the GG1's interiors 01:27:41 <drac_boy> the funny thing is one of the few accidents that caused ICC to tell the roads to either reduce to 79mph or install ATC (or was that ATS? I forgot which lettering) was of a diesel streamline that missed an orange signal and reacted too late to red signal .. right into the rear of another passenger train 01:28:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BCFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:19 <drac_boy> when they tested another train at the same place later on the automatic brakes stopped the train well short of the red signal which only gave ICC more evidence for their new rulings 01:29:03 <drac_boy> for anyone outside usa...it was Automatic Train Control and Automatic Train Stop 01:29:27 <drac_boy> even steam locomotives had a limited version that could set the air brake on if not properly reduced at an orange signal 01:31:30 * drac_boy hopes I didn't bore flygon 01:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, germany has PZB (point-based train influence) and LZB (line-based train influence) 01:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause> PZB is a magnet before each signal that engages the brakes if passed at too high speed 01:33:38 <drac_boy> mm magnets were tried for a while over here too 01:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and LZB can communicate with the train and issue top speeds and multi-block signal states 01:34:14 <drac_boy> whats interesting tho is that the classic berlin s-bahn brake cock "ramps" are almost same as to what several railroads actually tried for some time in usa 01:34:31 * drac_boy forgots what german actually called these so sorry about that name ^ 01:34:41 <Flygon> Sorry, was handling some stuff 01:35:31 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the berlin S-Bahn will have to replace those in the near future 01:35:57 <Flygon> Victoria lacked any real sort of Automatic Train Control until... at least the 1980s 01:36:15 <Flygon> And I can only recall it becoming widespread around 2004, due to the RFR projec 01:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> because it doesn't fulfill all new regulations about train influencing 01:36:47 <Flygon> This is probably where the US and Aussie safety standards actually differ. USA had ATC requirements. Australia didn't. 01:37:02 <drac_boy> yeah eddi the 'ramps' in usa eventually got completely discarded because they only either let train by or fully stopped it .. a bit too primative 01:37:31 <drac_boy> better systems could set service brakes as a warning for orange signals etc 01:37:36 <Flygon> eg. V/Line actually tried to use 180km/h locomotives in the 1980s using bog standard signalling (back then, a mix of semaphore and LED) 01:38:02 <Flygon> The experiment failed when they couldn't find any railway lines of acceptable standard :P 01:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: PZB also does that, but it has different modes for approaching a read signal, or standing infront of a red signal and starting up 01:38:21 <Flygon> And 180km/h was the record they set... 130km/h was the nominal speed 01:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: there is no "warning shot" 01:38:41 <Flygon> (they aimed for 160km/h, I presume to compete with the XPT) 01:38:55 <drac_boy> flygon mind you you should maybe check the Bullet signalling .. its a mix of trackside visual (low speed in stations anyway) and in-cab electronic repeater 01:40:39 <drac_boy> eddi mm I've found that certain systems allows overriding red signals at very restrictive speeds. probably helps when its due to signal problem and the next signal is green anyway 01:41:03 <drac_boy> that does remind me of wondering why certain modern train signalling seem to fail at low speeds 01:41:49 <drac_boy> like there was that one time a NS train sideswiped another train because it was at below 40kph when trying to rejoin the mainline which rendered the automatic controls inoperative 01:42:24 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: ETCS has "balises" every few meters, so if you have very low speed, you run into a timeout before you reach the next "balise" 01:43:05 <Flygon> drac_boy: I'm quite familiar with it 01:43:19 <Flygon> It's part of the reason the VLocity trains are limited to 177km/h, iirc 01:43:37 <Flygon> Because V/Line is terrified sick of an accident happening due to poor LED sighting 01:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: a few years ago there was an accident in germany where sand isolated the wheels of a standing engine, so the track-occupation-circuit didn't trigger 01:44:16 <Flygon> Eddi: You mean New South Wales, right? 01:44:39 <Eddi|zuHause> now they issued a ruling that you may not use sand for braking if below 40km/h and less than 9 axles 01:44:39 <Flygon> There was a steam tour going on, train stalled going up-hill, so they sanded the fuck out of it, and continued on up-hill 01:44:46 <Flygon> Cue track circuits failing 01:45:03 <Flygon> And a rail accident happening with... DD EMU's, iirc 01:45:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: last time i checked, new south wales wasn't in germany :p 01:45:15 <Flygon> I'd have to check with Hendikins, he knows more about this than me 01:45:21 <Flygon> Eddi: Exact same cause of accident 01:45:38 <Flygon> Sand causing circuit failure 01:48:25 <drac_boy> I can't even find the name of the accident but I did find one photo of it tho... 01:48:58 <drac_boy> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3232/2931611964_7fa09e6935_o.jpg THAT ... thalys had the usual right of way on the mainline .. the NS train was below 40kph and supposed to stop for red signal that joined it onto the mainline .. but .. nope! 01:49:07 <drac_boy> 0_o 01:50:05 <drac_boy> and looking at it closely the NS train apparently still has its front axles on rails .. just badly tilted :-> 01:50:22 <drac_boy> can't say the same of the thalys .. its clearly off 01:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: sounds like the train-influence-system not prepared for starting up when facing red signal 01:50:32 <Flygon> ... 01:50:35 <Flygon> Jeeze 01:50:36 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has joined #openttd 01:50:36 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:50:52 <Flygon> You can tell how much lighter the Thalys is @_@ 01:50:53 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause yeah .. like I said .. the system they use does not even work below 40kph by some reason 01:51:06 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-173-100.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:18 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: several accidents like this happened in germany when a train stopped at a platform after it acknowledged the advance signal, but then started up forgetting about it 01:51:53 <Eddi|zuHause> especially if the main signal is not visible from the platform 01:52:54 <drac_boy> mmm I know this has nothing to do with automatics but theres a lot of stories from uk (probably easy to find only because of being in english) about trains or light locomotive moves being "forgotten" on the mainline ... and the tower operator sets the signal clear for another express to enter ..... not hard to figure out what then happens :-s 01:53:16 <Flygon> Yeowch 01:53:28 <Flygon> That's bizarre... 01:53:39 <Flygon> Despite how shit Metrol is, I've never seen that happen here 01:54:22 <Flygon> A thought 01:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: that's why track circuits or axle counters were introduced 01:54:34 <Flygon> Wouldn't it make sense to fit every locomotive and MU with GPS's? 01:54:40 <Flygon> So they can be tracked live? 01:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: they wouldn't be introduced if there was no accident happening before :p 01:54:50 <drac_boy> flygon well the main problem was inexperience or just simply being too overwhelmed with so many schedules that they forget about something outside their window 01:54:59 <Flygon> Oh, I see 01:55:00 <Supercheese> GPS should be cheap enough these days 01:55:17 <Flygon> Here, you're more likely to just get rail gridlock :p 01:55:26 <Eddi|zuHause> GPS is not exact enough 01:55:42 <Flygon> Supercheese: It is. It's partially used to track the VLocity, Siemens, and Xtrapolis trains 01:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it has a variance of like 10m (for civil usage) 01:55:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could be two tracks off 01:55:51 <Supercheese> if you couple it with the ground-based relays it gets much more accurate 01:55:53 <Supercheese> I forget the term 01:55:55 <glx> I don't think GPS can tell on which track a train is 01:56:00 <Flygon> But older systems are still the norm. 01:56:08 <drac_boy> flygon yeah one of the accident was when a light locomotive was stopped and freman was just walking to the tower to state that he was standing there and do they have clearance ....but the busy operator forgot about that while setting the signals for an express on umm the same track :| 01:56:24 <Supercheese> Differential GPS or some such 01:56:30 <drac_boy> everyone was ok..even the light locomotive's engineer 01:56:42 <Flygon> GPS tracking also uses 3G/4G data transfer iirc 01:56:43 <Supercheese> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DGPS 01:56:45 <glx> then that would no longer be cheap 01:56:52 <Supercheese> " improved location accuracy, from the 15-meter nominal GPS accuracy to about 10 cm in case of the best implementations." 01:56:58 <Supercheese> but yeah, then cost increases 01:57:05 <Supercheese> :S 01:57:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: yes, they use this system in road construction and stuff 01:57:25 <Flygon> It's gotta be worth the cost if V/Line and Metro use it 01:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause> pick a triangulation node that you know the exact position of 01:58:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and measure the position the GPS tells you 01:58:25 <drac_boy> flygon mind you it didn't happen that often but one of the general problem with certain semaphores was when they iced up badly to the point that they weren't operational..sometimes even in the wrong signal aspect too 01:59:04 <Flygon> drac_boy: That's probably part of the reason V/Line got rid of semaphores... yes, stuff can ice up here :p 01:59:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: but i don't see this being practical, except maybe for tracking shunting engines within a confined local area 01:59:25 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0f042.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 01:59:37 <Flygon> Sure, you can have 100% remotely controlled semaphores. But you're screwed if it breaks 01:59:45 <Flygon> At least if an LED breaks, it goes blank or red 02:00:02 <drac_boy> funny enough the The Flying Kipper from Britt-produced thomas series showed a very similar problem ... sempahore was set to green but the turnout was frozen to the wrong route...sending poor Henry right into the tail of a parked freight train 02:00:21 <Eddi|zuHause> as the inaccuracy increases with distance to the reference point, you'd have to re-synchronize with different reference points for "mobile" engines 02:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: how can the signal be set if the switch can't be locked into the right position?!? 02:01:40 <drac_boy> I don't know..maybe even the semaphore was frozen too 02:01:53 <drac_boy> someone would have to check that particular movie clip again to be sure 02:02:22 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:03:36 <Flygon> Okay, I gotta goo 02:03:40 <drac_boy> bye flygon 02:03:40 <Flygon> Horses need feeding 02:03:45 <Flygon> And I'm the only one that can feed him 02:03:54 <Flygon> Darn this accused horse 02:03:59 <Flygon> Arl be back, in 30-60 mins 02:05:02 * drac_boy goes back to this cargo list again 02:07:07 * Eddi|zuHause goes to sleep 02:07:26 <drac_boy> have a good sleep 02:07:53 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, btw. of the fixed wagon sets 02:08:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i totally forgot the double decker wagons of east germany 02:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> which came in 2 and 4 parts 02:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and special sectioned sets of 5 wagons 02:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> with additional middle parts 02:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so 9 parts in total 02:10:33 <Supercheese> Finally fixed my circling seagulls :D 02:10:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the wagons had no wheels at all 02:10:46 <Supercheese> now I just hope no one criticizes my positioning of the shadows... 02:11:03 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: like TGV segments ? 02:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and were fixed to the middle parts which had a set of wheels underneath 02:11:30 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: no, TGV has "jacobs bogies", these were different 02:12:31 <drac_boy> eddi I think I had seen that one .. marklin or brawa sold a model of it too .. quite a long consist only suitable for larger layouts 02:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause> http://picture.yatego.com/images/43281a67371588.5/big_pik53120_4-kqh/piko-53120-doppelstock-gliederzug.jpg 02:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> here is a model 02:14:26 <glx> oh 02:14:54 <drac_boy> yep thats the one eddi 02:15:20 <drac_boy> it looks alike to certain modern trams .. "suspended" cars riding on very short axle mounted pieces 02:15:27 <glx> not a bad solution to have more space inside the wagon 02:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: these were built in the 1950's (long-distance version) and 1970's (local version) 02:19:10 <drac_boy> 1950s sounds a bit similar to the one I recall reading about before .. WWII (or at least a bit before it) designed drg doppelstockwagens ... one of their initial problem was the sloped roof meant no openable windows upstairs or something to that effect 02:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause> in the 1980's they moved to single-wagon units, which evolved into the modern wagons they build until today 02:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: pre-war doubledecker wagons existed only in a private railroad 02:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> which operated the trains from Hamburg to LÌbeck 02:20:41 * drac_boy sometimes thinks about these early french doubledeck coaches especially for commuter railroads around Paris at the time 02:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but these are based on that design 02:20:56 <drac_boy> who else really were doing 2-axle doubledeck cars with outside stairways anyway?! 02:21:03 <drac_boy> crazy french people I tell you 02:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> those were also the first push-pull wagons 02:21:26 <drac_boy> mm I noticed that eddi...the cab is too obvious :) 02:21:38 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-187-222.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: well, if you assume that it's travelling on the right side... ;) 02:22:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.66.253] has joined #openttd 02:24:15 <drac_boy> I think it may be better if we just stop for now so you can get some sleep? :) 02:27:11 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:22 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.66.253] has joined #openttd 02:37:22 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.66.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:13 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.66.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:24 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.66.253] has joined #openttd 02:47:13 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 02:48:41 <Flygon> Back 02:48:59 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.66.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:50:11 <drac_boy> hi flygon :) 02:50:13 <Flygon> drac_boy: Interestingly, we used those middle carriage thingos on P/DERM's 02:50:28 <Flygon> It wasn't an innovation that was kept 02:50:44 <Flygon> I guess VR didn't see them as useful 02:53:46 <Flygon> Even articulated trams didn't use them (the Comeng built ones) 02:54:02 <Flygon> It took 5 car trams for the perspective to change 03:06:33 <drac_boy> I'm going to bed now so bye ok? :) 03:06:54 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 03:07:16 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 03:22:11 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.2.112.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:52 <Supercheese> NML has always given a warning for sprites that use "pure white", yet there seems to be nothing wrong with using it... what are the potential problems with using pure white pixels? 03:50:52 <Snail> no problem in itself, but such a warning might mean a misalignment between the sprites and the code 03:51:25 <Snail> if you never use pure white in your drawings, but only in the background of the file, then the sprites picked up by the code should never include pure white 03:51:33 <Snail> and if pure white is included it means a misalignment 03:51:50 <Snail> if OTOH you use pure white for your sprites, you lose this 03:51:58 <Supercheese> Ah, no, the background is all blue 03:52:18 <Supercheese> With white seagulls, very much intended ;) 03:52:28 <Supercheese> as I said, grf works fine 03:52:30 <Snail> if your background is all blue, then you can disregard this warning 03:52:33 <Supercheese> :) 03:52:53 <Snail> seagulls? are you drawing sprites for ships or something? :) 03:53:02 <Supercheese> No, seagulls as newobjects :) 03:53:10 <Supercheese> they look very nice, if I do say so myself 03:53:21 <Snail> wow! and they're animated? 03:53:24 <Supercheese> yep 03:53:30 <Supercheese> 18-frame and 24-frame varianets 03:53:32 <Supercheese> variants* 03:53:36 <Snail> wow! 03:53:53 <Snail> so how do they do? they fly across different tiles? 03:54:00 <Supercheese> they circle around 03:54:12 <Supercheese> I can throw a .gif together 03:57:30 <Snail> :) 03:57:52 <Supercheese> Well, guess I have to write a "this is what I'm working on" post to go with the .gifs 04:03:42 <Supercheese> Bah, as I'm making my .gifs I spot errors :S 04:06:01 <Snail> :D 04:06:17 <Snail> happens to me too 04:06:29 <Supercheese> Must...get...sprites...perfect... 04:06:31 <Snail> the other day I spotted a bug in a piece of code I wrote 6 months ago 04:08:09 <Supercheese> Ok, think I fixed all the errors 04:09:20 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56780&p=1058861#p1058861 04:11:34 <Snail> nice! 04:11:43 <Snail> this would look s great with MB's MariCo :) 04:11:54 <Supercheese> yep, I edited my post to say just that :) 04:12:25 <Supercheese> afk few minutes 04:47:08 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-0-143.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:16:10 <Supercheese> (more like afk an hour :P ) 05:48:38 <Supercheese> Wow, this is a weird looking airplane: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-72 05:51:59 <Flygon> It's the Hunchback of Moscow! 05:53:04 <Flygon> Also, Supercheese 05:53:12 <Flygon> They resemble the Seagulls from Age of Empires II 05:53:24 <Supercheese> Close, but not from AoE2 05:53:33 <Supercheese> Although hmm, I should look at those 05:53:56 <Flygon> I wasn't implying you ripped them :p 05:54:09 <Flygon> Also, they're larger, and have a lower frame rate. Not really worth ripping 05:54:14 <Flygon> Unless you feel like accelerating them 05:54:40 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 05:54:44 <Flygon> Either way, ones you did look snazzy 05:55:06 <Flygon> ...and OpenTTD totally needs an Age of Empires II graphics set now :p 05:55:10 <Supercheese> They're modified from a similar game, and yeah 05:55:18 <Supercheese> AoE2 graphics would be snazzy 05:55:47 <Flygon> Yep, build a road from Scotland to Britian, and transport Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaad Raiders! 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC674DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66EB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:56:28 <Flygon> Even cooler would be a I+II set going from 2000BC to 1700AD... 05:56:44 <Flygon> But OpenTTD doesn't have the ability to go into negative years 05:56:57 <Flygon> And we'd need new renderings to make post-1700 buildings @_@" 05:57:28 <Flygon> ...and modifying the engine to make time go much faster @ 2000BC and slower @ around the industrial revolution... 05:58:03 <Flygon> Point is, Age of Empires shizz looks really pretty, and is coincidentally isometric 05:58:34 <Flygon> And by coincidence has most of the resources needed for OpenTTD graphics and vehicles :p 05:59:09 <Supercheese> Indeed 05:59:11 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:59:40 <Flygon> But, I lack the resources and ambition to make this a thing 05:59:43 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 05:59:53 <Flygon> Good idea to keep in the backburner, though :) 05:59:56 <Supercheese> Copyright issues aside :P 06:01:23 <Flygon> I'll buy a Yate and fly to people's houses to verify they own AoEII :P 06:47:22 <Pikka> mm bugs 06:50:37 <Pikka> my class 0 city will not build any residential buildings after the year 2000 :D 06:51:28 <Pikka> and... that'd be why 06:51:55 <Pikka> population limit greater than 7FFF is a bad idea :} 06:53:35 <Pikka> class 1 craps itself at 2050 too... oops :) 06:53:57 *** George|2 is now known as George 06:54:36 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:55:09 <Pikka> whoops 06:55:54 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:03:28 *** Warod [warod@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:03:40 *** Defaulttinen [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:34:51 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:00:41 *** Warod [warod@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 08:01:04 *** Defaulttinen [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 08:10:23 <Supercheese> Wait, there's a third, unused roadtype? 08:12:08 <Rubidium> there isn't 08:12:16 <Supercheese> Just space for it? 08:12:23 <Rubidium> nope 08:12:43 <Supercheese> Then what is this old thread getting revived for... 08:12:47 <Supercheese> :S 08:13:09 <Rubidium> something that was space for a long time ago 08:13:22 <Supercheese> since been used? 08:14:25 <Flygon> Speaking of third roadtypes 08:14:26 <Rubidium> yep, the 'reserved' space is used by something else 08:14:49 <Flygon> What'd be really cool is hovering mono or maglev rails that can go above roads 08:14:53 <Flygon> Will never happen, of course :p 08:15:06 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:15:37 <Supercheese> Just code mono/maglev engines as road vehicles or trams 08:15:45 <Supercheese> Bob's yer uncle, hovering above roads 08:15:59 <Flygon> Supercheese: I mean, as an actual railtype 08:16:06 <Flygon> eg. diagonal running and all 08:16:15 <Supercheese> That would require diagonal roads first 08:16:19 <Flygon> ... 08:16:32 <Flygon> I mean a railtype, that can go over road related tiles 08:16:36 <Supercheese> ah 08:16:37 <Flygon> And instead of level crossings 08:16:41 <Flygon> It's physically seperate 08:16:53 <Supercheese> I thought you were going for a roadtype 08:16:58 <Flygon> Nah 08:18:23 <Supercheese> Elevated monorails, à la Disney? 08:18:31 <Supercheese> Disneyland/world 08:22:02 <Supercheese> You'd still have essentially a level crossing, where road traffic is forced to stop 08:22:09 <Supercheese> unless you build a bridge 08:23:40 <Flygon> Supercheese: I was thinking more Transrapid or Sydney Monorail. Or The Simpsons. 08:23:53 <Flygon> But basically... the rails would be like they're ALWAYS a bridge 08:24:03 <Supercheese> Right 08:24:15 <Flygon> But also dependant on the land's base height... 08:24:24 <Flygon> Dunno if that is actually programmable 08:24:26 <Supercheese> OTTD will still treat the "level crossing" the same way though, irrespective of graphics 08:24:48 <Flygon> Especially due to having two railtypes in one tile going the same direction... 08:25:24 <Supercheese> "The [Sydney] Metro Monorail will cease operation in June 2013 and subsequently be pulled down." 08:25:28 <Supercheese> Thus saith wikipedia 08:25:38 <Flygon> Sydney monorail is shiiiit 08:25:43 <Flygon> Excuse my language 08:25:55 <Supercheese> Apparently rather unprofitable 08:26:05 <Flygon> It's fares were outragious 08:26:11 <Flygon> Nobody rode it (except tourists) 08:26:16 <Flygon> It was an eyesore 08:26:34 <Flygon> And it was chosen over a much cheaper and cooler looking tram system 08:26:41 <Flygon> Sydney REALLY wanted Trams back 08:27:08 <Flygon> Partially because it would have allowed reuse of old rollingstock Sydney used to have, and also newer rollingstock Melbourne has, iirc 08:27:36 <Supercheese> But monorails are kewl! :P 08:27:57 <Flygon> Supercheese, remember the monorail episode of The Simpsons? 08:28:03 <__ln__> yeah, and there's no disneyland on the whole continent, so... 08:28:12 <Flygon> Sydney's version went a bit like that 08:28:21 <Flygon> Complete with crashes due to computer failure, in fact 08:28:40 <Supercheese> No Disney Down Under yet? 08:28:43 <Supercheese> They should get on that. 08:28:54 <Flygon> We already have all the Gold Coast theme parks 08:29:02 <Flygon> Warner Brothers basically kicked out Disney :p 08:29:04 <__ln__> (at least i assume there isn't, never been down under myself yet) 08:35:50 <Flygon> ln: Indeed, there is no Disneyland 08:36:48 <Terkhen> good morning 08:41:41 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:41:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:42:05 <Alberth> moin 08:42:34 <Terkhen> hi Alberth :) 08:50:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:50:05 <Flygon> Menta 08:50:12 <V453000> moo 08:51:03 <Pikka> morning andy et al 08:51:15 <V453000> bird 08:53:01 <__ln__> There isn't a Disneyland on Antarctica either, I guess. 08:59:31 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-004-144.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:01:22 <Supercheese> They should get on that 09:01:40 <Flygon> __ln__: That's because Australia has mass claimed ownership of Antartica 09:01:43 <Supercheese> very cheap real estate, I hear 09:02:06 <Flygon> Well 09:02:11 <Flygon> It's convenient 09:03:14 <andythenorth> bonsoir 09:05:48 <andythenorth> Pikka: export / import industries....good or bad? 09:05:50 <Supercheese> Oh, I suppose I should make a land-based version of those seagulls 09:06:02 <Supercheese> currently only water 09:06:02 <Pikka> good, andy 09:06:17 <Pikka> I meant to add ports to TaI but never got round to it yet 09:07:04 <Pikka> I had a go with nocargoal btw... only one of each industry on a 128* map, didn't work. :P 09:07:28 <Pikka> got to about 60% of 7500 for each cargo 09:07:49 <Pikka> I guess it's more fun with bigger, more spread out maps 09:08:45 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:12:24 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:12:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 09:13:58 <andythenorth> Pikka: for cargo goals, funding primaries is pretty essential 09:14:12 <Pikka> yeah 09:15:18 <andythenorth> hmm ports 09:15:24 <andythenorth> dan has some graphics for them 09:15:35 <andythenorth> question is, how / where to locate them? 09:15:44 <Supercheese> Near map edges, presumably 09:15:45 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:47 <andythenorth> and do I need to provide a dry-land version (warehouse) 09:15:55 <andythenorth> for maps with pathologically low amount of sea 09:17:07 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 09:18:03 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-76-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:18:17 <Pikka> probably not 09:18:56 <Pikka> of course, there's only so much you can do to prevent your international port generating on a little lake :) 09:19:10 <andythenorth> fishing harbour has same issue ;) 09:19:48 <Supercheese> No good way to check if the water has a 'path' to the map edge, eh? 09:24:40 <Supercheese> So, hmm, if I want this object to be buildable on slopes, do I have to have a ton of different spritelayouts and switch between them based on the value of tile_slope, or is there some way to automagically have the groundsprite be whatever slope it needs to? 09:25:11 <andythenorth> Supercheese: sounds like a standard routing algorithm problem to me ;) 09:25:28 <Supercheese> simply using GROUNDSPRITE_NORMAL results in flat sprites on slopes, which is Bad⢠09:25:30 <andythenorth> but I have never implemented one, it's possibly beyond my maths skills, and it's not a newgrf thing 09:26:19 <Supercheese> perhaps I should try providing no ground sprite at all 09:26:51 <andythenorth> that _might_ result in a black tile / garbled graphics 09:26:55 <andythenorth> it does for industries 09:26:57 <Supercheese> We'll see 09:28:30 <andythenorth> you might need slope-aware ground 09:28:34 <Supercheese> Yeah, garbled nonsense 09:28:38 <andythenorth> possibly terrain aware too 09:28:45 <andythenorth> this is always fun :P 09:28:46 <Supercheese> ugh 09:28:53 <Supercheese> No way to automatically have OTTD take care of that? 09:29:04 <Supercheese> I just want to have the base ground unchanged and float sprites over it 09:29:56 <andythenorth> industries and stations can't do that :P 09:30:03 <Supercheese> but this is an object 09:30:18 <andythenorth> yeah, I haven't coded objects 09:30:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker ^ ? 09:30:25 <Supercheese> hmm 09:30:50 <Supercheese> I could just limit to water-only 09:30:55 <Supercheese> solve all my problems 09:31:07 <andythenorth> ho ho 09:31:13 <Supercheese> of course people will come a-wanting them over ground nearly instantaneously 09:31:13 <andythenorth> the pragmatic route ;) 09:32:06 <Pikka> working out the slope and providing graphics isn't /that/ hard 09:32:35 <Pikka> particularly if you limit yourself to the four straight slopes :] 09:32:37 <andythenorth> other new objects have done it 09:32:43 <andythenorth> i reckon 09:32:55 <Pikka> I've done it with houses 09:33:12 <Supercheese> Eh, I know what I'd have to do 09:33:19 <andythenorth> handling snow / partial snow / desert etc is a bit of faff 09:33:20 <Supercheese> I'd rather there be a lazy way of course :P 09:34:18 <Supercheese> Think it's time to dive into the OGFX+ landscape code, they've done pretty much what I want 09:34:26 <Supercheese> back into* 09:34:32 <Supercheese> I've already borrowed their animation coding 09:35:29 <Supercheese> sprite: LOAD_TEMP(var_groundsprite) + slope_to_sprite_offset(nearby_tile_slope(0, 0)); 09:35:31 <Supercheese> whoah thar 09:35:34 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 09:36:43 <Supercheese> and a very nasty-looking switch later on 09:37:03 <Supercheese> although I probably won't need that 09:37:44 <andythenorth> Supercheese: it's easier than doing it with nfo :) 09:37:57 <andythenorth> or at least this way you avoid a crash course in masks and shifts ;) 09:38:00 <Supercheese> no shit, raw hex makes my neurons die painful deaths 09:38:11 <Supercheese> even commented hex is not much better 09:39:07 <andythenorth> it's really fine, once you've learnt it 09:39:48 <Supercheese> I'm exaggerating, yes 09:40:01 <Supercheese> still, the learning curve for NML is far less steep 09:40:54 <andythenorth> so 09:41:18 <andythenorth> could the pathfinder check for a minimum number of connected water tiles? 09:41:27 <andythenorth> for a newgrf placement check? 09:42:11 <andythenorth> seems like basic A* or such? 09:43:20 <andythenorth> could cap it for performance reasons, there is an upper limit beyond which checking is pointless (big enough is big enough) 09:50:56 <Pikka> you could always build "sensor tiles" as part of the industry, eg channel markers... :P 09:51:29 <andythenorth> I already use 'magic' water tile 0xFF to ensure clear space 09:51:31 <andythenorth> hmm 09:51:40 <andythenorth> maybe I can implement A* or similar in newgrf 09:51:43 <andythenorth> using the tile checks :o 09:51:47 <Pikka> good luck :P 09:52:20 <Pikka> I suppose if it's only doing it during industry placement you don't need to worry too much about performance issues 09:55:17 <andythenorth> can't decide if ports should be forced to be near map edge or not 09:56:18 <peter1138> ports? 09:56:46 <peter1138> why near map edge? 09:57:40 <andythenorth> 'realism' 09:57:42 <andythenorth> :P 09:58:01 <peter1138> eh? 09:58:50 <V453000> earth has edges? 09:58:51 <V453000> :P 09:59:11 <Supercheese> Make it a parameter 09:59:13 <Supercheese> :P 09:59:27 <peter1138> what kind of port are you talking about here? 10:00:25 * Supercheese puts on his best Italian New York accent 10:00:35 <Supercheese> 'Impoht / Expoht' 10:01:01 <Supercheese> 'Impoaht / Expoaht' perhaps is closer :P 10:01:48 <andythenorth> yeah tha 10:01:50 <andythenorth> t 10:02:24 <andythenorth> export cargo 'foo', import cargo 'blah' 10:03:40 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 10:04:26 <V453000> coal->cow factory? awesome 10:04:27 <Supercheese> Well, the OGFX+ code works splendidly for detecting slopes, but it seems to have broken my animation 10:06:11 <andythenorth> export / import is basically a massive cheat for economies where the goal is a low number of industries / cargos 10:06:23 <andythenorth> it lets me square the circle on some broken chains 10:06:32 <andythenorth> without unpicking all of FIRS and getting yelled at (again) 10:08:11 <V453000> ha :( 10:08:12 <V453000> š:) 10:09:09 <andythenorth> I can also please some rivet counters 10:09:21 <andythenorth> e.g. UK has aluminium plants, but no bauxite mines 10:09:27 <andythenorth> so ports work there too 10:09:34 <andythenorth> in a UK economy 10:09:44 <V453000> x_x 10:09:49 <V453000> that looks really weirdly realistic 10:09:57 <V453000> but lets see what you come up with :) 10:10:01 <andythenorth> hmm 10:10:06 * andythenorth ponders European economies 10:10:15 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:10:20 <Pinkbeast> weirdly: yes, in OTTD-land we are always on a curiously self-sufficient island 10:10:23 <V453000> laters 10:10:30 <andythenorth> EU economies driving you away? :P 10:10:59 <andythenorth> I could do Australia, and include a pikka-factory :P 10:11:05 <andythenorth> produces: pixels 10:11:08 <Supercheese> Augh, what broke the animations 10:11:15 <andythenorth> requires: fuck knows :) 10:11:24 <Supercheese> Mountain Dew? :P 10:11:26 <andythenorth> what fuels a pikka? 10:11:38 <Pinkbeast> BEER? Cheese sandwiches? 10:11:44 <Supercheese> Beer, yes 10:11:53 <Pikka> I think a wrap would be good, I will go and make one 10:12:02 <Supercheese> That's a wrap, folks 10:12:08 <Supercheese> (couldn't resist) 10:13:05 <andythenorth> there is plenty of LOL potential in a discussion about EU economies o_O 10:13:17 <Supercheese> or most any economy, really 10:13:53 <peter1138> *almost 10:13:59 <Supercheese> Please, not that again 10:14:03 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:06 <Supercheese> We've been over this ;) 10:14:16 <peter1138> and you still get it wrong :p 10:14:24 <andythenorth> afaik, Europe's main industry is cheese 10:14:27 <Supercheese> *sigh* How many dictionaries must I quote 10:15:46 <Supercheese> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/most 10:15:50 <Supercheese> http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/most_1?q=most 10:15:51 <andythenorth> cheese factory: requires milk, produces cheese 10:15:55 <Supercheese> etc 10:16:01 <andythenorth> deliver EU subsidy for more production 10:16:24 <andythenorth> does Europe make any beer of any kind? 10:16:51 <Supercheese> Most all kinds of beer, I'd expect ;) 10:17:22 * andythenorth wonders if FIRS needs a whaling station 10:17:32 <Supercheese> I might have some whale sprites around somewhere 10:17:43 <Supercheese> I know I have some shark sprites 10:18:01 <peter1138> Supercheese, and they all say either unacceptable or "us only" 10:18:11 <peter1138> so the word you wanted was almost 10:18:26 <Supercheese> yeah, no 10:18:36 <andythenorth> let's try examples 10:18:46 <andythenorth> "FIRS is almost done" 10:19:02 <andythenorth> "peter1138 has almost talked himself into doing roadtypes" 10:19:11 <peter1138> neither of those are true though :p 10:19:17 <Supercheese> The shortening of almost to most is most frequent for "almost any" -> "most any" 10:19:18 <andythenorth> "a spec for newgrf effect vehicles is almost sane" 10:19:34 <andythenorth> see, the last one can use most 10:19:39 <Supercheese> "modify the adjectives all, every, and any" 10:19:43 <andythenorth> "a spec for newgrf effect vehicles is most sane" 10:19:54 <peter1138> the shortening of almost to most is most frequent for americans who don't know what it is wrong 10:20:07 <Supercheese> *facepalm* 10:20:29 <Supercheese> "First Known Use: circa 1584" 10:20:39 <Supercheese> I don't think our country was even around then 10:20:50 <Supercheese> last book I read said it wasn't anyhow ;) 10:20:58 <peter1138> thy arst thou correcteth 10:21:21 <Supercheese> verily 10:21:48 <peter1138> and ye olde shoppe of course 10:22:02 <Supercheese> forsooth 10:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "thy" sounds grammatically wrong in this place :) 10:23:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and who ever got the idea to use "y" for "th"? 10:23:48 <andythenorth> you should all have a baby to hold 10:23:50 <andythenorth> like me 10:23:59 <andythenorth> that would improve your morning 10:24:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the typical morning at 11:30 AM? :) 10:24:25 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, ß 10:24:29 <Pinkbeast> Assuming your morning has insufficient nappies in it 10:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: yes, i know that character :) 10:25:07 <Supercheese> anyway, I should sleep 10:25:15 <peter1138> Medieval printing presses did not contain the letter thorn, so the letter y was substituted 10:25:18 <peter1138> obvisously 10:25:27 <Supercheese> I'll figure out why the animation broke later 10:25:29 <andythenorth> poor unicode compatibility 10:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: so why does nobody then spell "thy" as "yy"? :p 10:25:39 <Supercheese> I could do that... most any time 10:25:57 *** Supercheese was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [almost] 10:27:03 <peter1138> wot no autojoin :p 10:27:06 <andythenorth> most harsh 10:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> autojoin is most evil :p 10:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you offended him, he even left the server :/ 10:28:16 <peter1138> o_O 10:28:32 <andythenorth> so...checking the number of connected water tiles from newgrf? 10:30:37 <andythenorth> the purpose being to avoid building water-based industries in teeny-tiny lakes 10:31:47 <peter1138> is it possible? 10:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so which part of that was the question? 10:42:16 <peter1138> ok, do i build lots of independent rail lines or one big network? 10:42:34 <peter1138> and... do i build "realistic" rail junctions or just have lines connect up willynilly? 10:43:09 <Pikka> yes, peter1138 10:44:56 <Pinkbeast> Don't just build one line per connection because then it gets really dull 10:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i concur, Pikka 10:45:14 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:49:52 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 10:50:24 <peter1138> gah, this station-name-from-nearby-industry thing is kinda annoying 10:50:30 <peter1138> built a station in a town 10:50:36 <peter1138> and it's name "town grocer's shop" 10:50:42 <peter1138> +d 10:52:07 <Pinkbeast> On the other hand, don't build a complex network because you can't manage fast+slow on the mainline effectively 10:53:16 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:53:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> ohi 10:53:44 <peter1138> silly biggui 10:53:46 <ZxBiohazardZx> taking another look on that terkhen format for scns 10:54:00 <peter1138> uses railway bridge previews when building road bridges 10:54:07 <Terkhen> :P 10:54:08 <ZxBiohazardZx> why is alpine/snow not a climate layer palet? 10:54:15 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:54:20 <andythenorth> peter1138: other people find the names annoying, it _might_ be a valid parameter option 10:54:21 <ZxBiohazardZx> default, desert, rainforest 10:54:23 <andythenorth> how much do you care? 10:54:31 <ZxBiohazardZx> why is alpine/snow not part of it? 10:54:33 <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: because you cannot modify snow except by changing the snow line height 10:54:38 <peter1138> andythenorth, is it firs doing that or openttd though? 10:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: snow isn't stored on the map, it's calculated based on height 10:55:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> Terkhen then snow is available in ALL types? 10:55:22 <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: no, only in the subartic climate 10:55:43 <ZxBiohazardZx> would it be hard to change that into all climates based on height/setting 10:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it would. 10:55:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> with default having infinite high level so it never shows? 10:56:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> k 10:56:17 <andythenorth> peter1138: yes 10:56:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> also i dont get how the format is lose from newgrf adding after creation 10:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the morning of helpful answers :p 10:56:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> if you define city/towns, the newgrfs will (majorly) affect them ? 10:57:04 <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: the whole point of the format is being NewGRF independent 10:57:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: by exporting and reimporting as heightmap 10:57:15 <peter1138> andythenorth, i like the naming but i prefer it to just take the normal name if it's in the town radius 10:57:20 <Terkhen> in the scenario format, towns are only defined by their position and number of houses 10:57:29 <ZxBiohazardZx> ah ok Terkhen, thats great 10:57:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: you will lose some details, but not all 10:57:34 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 10:57:39 <peter1138> also, both the 1, 2, and 4 horse carriages have 10hp :S 10:57:40 <drac_boy> hi 10:57:44 <peter1138> both? 10:57:44 <ZxBiohazardZx> i keep running into stupid issues porting my scenarios over to multiple newgrfsets 10:57:47 <Terkhen> if you change your town NewGRF, you will get the same town in the same place with the same number of houses, but it will be different 10:57:49 <peter1138> o_O 10:57:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> i usually just hack them and play with modified grfs 10:57:55 <andythenorth> peter1138: sounds like an ottd option to ignore industry prop 24? 10:57:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> works fine 99/100 times :P 10:58:01 <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: yes, we want to solve this issue for scenario authors :) 10:58:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> :) 10:58:18 <Pinkbeast> peter: RV power has a too-large quantum for horse-drawn vehicles to have sensible power. :-/ 10:58:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-102-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 10:58:29 <ZxBiohazardZx> stupid newGRFs and their insane linking in the core 10:58:48 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it was worse when it called the station "... Mine" when it was near a recycling place 10:59:04 <andythenorth> if I don't set prop 24, what happens? 10:59:14 <andythenorth> it uses the industry type or something? 10:59:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it uses the default method, "mine" for extractive, "forest" for organic, nothing for the rest, or somesuch 11:00:14 <Terkhen> ZxBiohazardZx: I'm slowly progressing on it... I'm not sure if I will finish it in time for the 1.3.0 release, though 11:00:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> so that brings me to the next question Terkhen did you even start on it?:P 11:00:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> darn 11:00:35 <ZxBiohazardZx> you answered the question before i even asked it :| 11:01:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> Eddi is right, it is the morning of helpful answers :P 11:01:19 <Terkhen> in the worst case I could always release a patched 1.3.0 version that allows you to convert a scn to extended heightmap, and then back to scn with different NewGRFs 11:01:25 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:01:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> im cool with that 11:01:50 <ZxBiohazardZx> i currently just exploit the "allow modified grfs" setting alot :) 11:02:00 <Terkhen> I'm still hoping to have it done for 1.3.0, though :P 11:02:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> works personally just fine 11:02:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> just starts to become a biatch when you want to share a "perfect combo" 11:02:18 <ZxBiohazardZx> fair enough 11:02:24 <ZxBiohazardZx> i also had another question 11:02:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> but i forgot it :P 11:03:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> is there a (crappy or not) patch for cbh on forums that you guys know of? 11:03:50 <andythenorth> cbh? 11:03:59 <Pikka> can't be helped 11:04:11 <ZxBiohazardZx> searching CBH or custom bridge heads results in 10.000 threads that are not helpfull in any way 11:04:16 <Terkhen> an ancient, not complete patch from 5 years ago IIRC 11:04:21 <Terkhen> that patch wouldn't be helpful either 11:04:27 <Terkhen> it needs... new map array :D 11:04:31 <ZxBiohazardZx> ill take that as a no then 11:04:35 <peter1138> no it doesn't 11:04:35 <ZxBiohazardZx> how did ttdp do it? 11:04:36 <Terkhen> or maybe not, I don't remember the specifics for that feature 11:04:40 <peter1138> just needs to be written in a way that works ;p 11:04:44 <Terkhen> oh, ok :) 11:04:51 <Pikka> peter1138: HOVS2 will come with a special feature to solve that problem 11:04:58 <Pikka> no horses :) 11:05:14 <peter1138> HOVS... good times 11:05:24 <peter1138> but then you never finished it :p 11:05:24 <andythenorth> +1 11:05:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> so CBH/rail over tunnel entrance is far from there (both somehow are working in ttdp) XD 11:05:32 <andythenorth> HOVDIT 11:05:36 <peter1138> i finished CBH but it never got committed 11:05:36 <Pikka> I restarted it, peter1138 11:05:41 <andythenorth> I cba to do BANDIT either :P 11:05:42 <peter1138> yeah i know 11:05:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> peter1138 ofc you did :P 11:05:46 <andythenorth> RVs are too crappy 11:05:50 <andythenorth> they're all wrong 11:05:51 <Pikka> one vehicle drawn, 38 to go 11:05:57 <peter1138> woot 11:06:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> peter1138 why not share that work you did on CBH 11:06:06 <peter1138> erm 11:06:11 <peter1138> why? 11:06:32 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: if you want to update a patch based on r3000 ;) 11:07:03 <andythenorth> Pikka: send me your sprites, I'll send you my codes 11:07:16 <Pikka> eh, the codes is the easy bit :} 11:07:30 <andythenorth> :P 11:07:39 <andythenorth> fricking set design is the hard bit :P 11:07:46 <ZxBiohazardZx> peter1138 cause i think cbh is an awesome feature in ttdp specially for scenariobuilding 11:07:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> it allows more dense city/roadlayouts 11:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> code writes itself, obviously 11:08:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> ofc it does 11:08:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> you hire gnomes that write it for you! 11:08:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean that literally... 11:09:03 <ZxBiohazardZx> ? 11:09:39 <andythenorth> I am one ahead 11:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> a script of ~300 lines writing ~30000 lines of code 11:09:45 <andythenorth> my graphics draw themselves too 11:10:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> lol nice Eddi 11:10:20 <andythenorth> what's annoying is that the set doesn't design itself 11:10:32 <andythenorth> maybe we just make a 'set designing script' 11:10:39 <andythenorth> and then let AIs play test versions 11:10:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:10:44 <andythenorth> something will emerge as winner 11:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: genetic newgrfs!! 11:10:58 <peter1138> ZxBiohazardZx, i did it 6 years ago, it won't apply 11:11:13 <andythenorth> +1 to genetic newgrfs 11:11:28 <andythenorth> creativity is over-rated, just iterate 11:12:41 <drac_boy> heh heh 11:12:48 <ZxBiohazardZx> peter1138 meh ok so pretty much idea exists, just no code for it 11:12:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> fine 11:13:08 * andythenorth ponders an insurrection 11:13:11 <andythenorth> against autorefit 11:13:24 <drac_boy> why andythenorth? 11:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: there exists another patch, which is only like 5 years old 11:14:19 <andythenorth> nah...I've whined about autorefit enough here 11:14:52 <peter1138> celestar's attempt 11:15:03 <peter1138> my version actually worked but got made obsolete 11:15:14 <Rubidium> it's all Celestar's fault ;) 11:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be in the SVN 11:15:37 <andythenorth> so frosch has convinced me that newgrf effect vehicles would be a Good Thing 11:15:48 <peter1138> Rubidium, tron ;) 11:15:50 <andythenorth> featuring spritegroups for using n realsprites 11:16:10 <ZxBiohazardZx> Eddi 5 years, 6 years, both are ancient 11:16:20 <ZxBiohazardZx> to much shit happened between and you know that just as much as i do 11:16:59 <andythenorth> using spritegroups for effect vehicles would handle cases like ships with 4 funnels 11:17:30 <Rubidium> @commit 9109 11:17:30 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by celestar :: r9109 /branches/custombridgeheads/src (3 files) (2007-03-11 09:28:58 UTC) 11:17:31 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: [cbh] -Fix: Stabilize the reversing of trains on bridges/bridgeheads a little (it still crashes at times however). Also re-allow the construction of signals on bridgeheads 11:17:44 <Rubidium> it seems closer to 6 years old ;) 11:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> still, about 1 year younger than peter1138's patch :) 11:18:19 <peter1138> yeah mine is nearly 7 years ago 11:18:51 <ZxBiohazardZx> ugh 11:18:51 <peter1138> although that was later versions, dunno when i started it 11:18:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> you all know that thats ancient 11:19:25 <andythenorth> for sanity, newgrf effect vehicles might not get VA 2, just an animation rate and a set of frames to step through (or VA 2 with just one var: animation frame) 11:19:51 <peter1138> they'd get VA2 11:20:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> and you both prolly had valid reasons to stop updating the CBH patches you made 11:20:03 <peter1138> there are global variables that all features get access to 11:21:47 <andythenorth> hmmm 11:21:54 <andythenorth> change smoke based on date :P 11:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: there is also this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50283 11:22:11 <andythenorth> alllows newgrfs to reflect introduction of emissions control laws :P 11:23:56 <andythenorth> puzzled about how to control generation of effect vehicles though 11:24:09 <andythenorth> newgrf shouldn't be doing that on every tick, that's bonkers 11:24:44 <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz 11:25:02 <ZxBiohazardZx> Hackalittlebit did get "signals on bridges and tunnels" implemented in a ugly hacky way :P 11:25:53 <andythenorth> I'm -1 on signals for tunnels / bridges 11:26:21 * Pinkbeast lifts an eyebrow 11:26:28 <andythenorth> why bother? 11:26:30 <Rubidium> with the current map array signals on bridges/tunnels are mutually exclusive with cbh/cte 11:26:59 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: that has pretty much nothing to do with this, though 11:27:10 <Emmy-Eviltwin> what's in a name, eh 11:27:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> true eddi, but afaik that link you posted is a similar implementation 11:27:23 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka the highly disliked "hack" 11:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: it is not. 11:27:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> and i personally have alot of likes on signals in bridge/tunnels 11:27:47 <ZxBiohazardZx> or multiple trains on bridge/tunnel :P 11:28:00 <Emmy-Eviltwin> wait, we once had signals on bridge heads? 11:28:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> allows you to build longer bridges /tunnels without insane jams 11:28:34 <andythenorth> or just build shorter ones 11:28:47 <ZxBiohazardZx> sometimes that isnt an option 11:28:52 <Pinkbeast> Awkward when some miscreant has put their huge town in the way 11:29:11 <Emmy-Eviltwin> that works if you only want to cross sea or something like that 11:29:30 <Emmy-Eviltwin> but not if you want to cross a huge valley or tunnel underneath a large town 11:29:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> crossing the sea, crossing a valley, tunneling under a long mountainside or even underneath a town 11:29:48 <peter1138> i implemented signals on custom bridge heads i think, been a while 11:29:50 <Pinkbeast> Couldn't the signals be a property of the wormhole keeping them out of the map array 11:29:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> you cant always make a 3-long tunnel and then exclavate a hole just for signalling 11:29:58 <andythenorth> meh 11:30:13 * andythenorth stops arguing against vapourware features that no-one is working on anyway ;) 11:30:31 <ZxBiohazardZx> its the reason chrills patchpack is popular 11:30:43 <peter1138> is it? 11:30:47 <peter1138> never used it 11:30:48 <ZxBiohazardZx> signals on bridge/tunnels, cargodist/paxdest and some other features 11:31:02 <andythenorth> how do you know it's popular? 11:31:16 * drac_boy always uses more than one tunnel if its high traffic anyway 11:31:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> # of downloads 11:31:21 <drac_boy> thats what the advanced signals are for 11:31:50 <ZxBiohazardZx> im not willing to place 8-10 tunnels if i can do with 1 that contains hacky signalling 11:33:02 <ZxBiohazardZx> that aside 11:33:18 <ZxBiohazardZx> mainly was wondering about that scenario /extended heightmap thingy of Terkhen 11:33:29 <ZxBiohazardZx> and ofc dreaming about cbh, but yeah 11:34:28 <peter1138> learn to code ;) 11:34:44 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E167.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:34:58 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d822738.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:39 <andythenorth> or learn to dream things other people are prepared to code 11:35:48 <andythenorth> not easy ;) 11:35:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> peter1138 yeah i know :) 11:36:02 <ZxBiohazardZx> i can do some minor bullshit 11:36:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> but im not doing computer/software engineering 11:36:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> all i did was a minor 11:36:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> that only involved java and some opengl 11:36:29 <peter1138> a minor? 11:36:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> major-minor 11:36:46 <ZxBiohazardZx> bachelor programme 11:36:56 <peter1138> i see 11:36:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> 30 ECTS worth of software engineering 11:37:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> in my civil engineering degree 11:37:11 <peter1138> you know you don't need degrees to program, right? 11:37:22 <Pinkbeast> Since we all know what an ECTS is we are now enlightened. :-) 11:37:23 <ZxBiohazardZx> i know 11:37:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> ECTS = European Credit Transfer System 11:37:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> its the study-points-measurement in europe, 1 ECTS = 28hours roughly 11:37:54 <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway 11:37:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> i know i dont need a degree for it 11:38:23 <ZxBiohazardZx> i just never got around to learn C/c++ apart from reading some openttd and worldofwarcraft emulation codes 11:38:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> and doing minor edits to them 11:38:31 <Pinkbeast> Errr well I'm in Europe and it's news to me (also, aren't "minors" in "bachelor programmes" American terminology? It is a mystery.) 11:38:44 <peter1138> well guess were most of us learnt c/c++ from... 11:38:47 <peter1138> *where 11:38:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> i guess self taught 11:39:08 <ZxBiohazardZx> as most hobbyprogrammers do 11:39:14 <Pinkbeast> Hack 1.0.3 :-) 11:39:18 <peter1138> self learnt from... delving into openttd 11:39:22 <ZxBiohazardZx> you did? 11:39:24 <ZxBiohazardZx> lolz 11:39:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> you jumped into openttd with 0.0 skill/experience? 11:39:43 <ZxBiohazardZx> then you learned ALOT of C/Cpp lolz 11:39:57 <peter1138> no, no 0.0 11:40:01 <ZxBiohazardZx> you cant learn just by reading or altering existing code 11:40:10 <peter1138> really 11:40:11 <ZxBiohazardZx> so you knew some shit before you started :P 11:40:14 <peter1138> you can 11:40:26 <ZxBiohazardZx> copy paste only gets you so far 11:40:36 <Pinkbeast> I knew no C at all before seeing the Hack source. 11:40:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> i learned that on TC already 11:40:39 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:45 <peter1138> *sigh* 11:40:53 <Pinkbeast> ... there's no rule against digging up a copy of K&R while you're doing it 11:41:00 <peter1138> take Belugas, he is a delphi programmer 11:41:04 <peter1138> knew nothing of c/c++ 11:41:18 <peter1138> didn't stop him 11:41:20 <ZxBiohazardZx> your a programmer, regardless of you language, some methodics are the same 11:41:22 <Terkhen> I started with copy paste too, knowing basic C++ only 11:41:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> you all have variables, functions basic knowledge 11:41:37 <peter1138> yup, born a programmer 11:41:37 <Flygon> I started with 68k ASM 11:41:41 <Flygon> Then AviSynth 11:41:46 <Flygon> Then I gave up programming :p 11:41:54 <ZxBiohazardZx> the only reason i got through java was because i had a book and all the answers where copy/paste from some sheets 11:42:01 <Pinkbeast> In particular a large program like OTTD (or Hack/ NetHack) often has a fairly clear internal structure where you don't need to know much of the language to change the game logic 11:42:21 <ZxBiohazardZx> i gave the suggestion of putting screenshots in a screenshots dir a go 11:42:22 <peter1138> i wouldn't say clear, in ottd's case :) 11:42:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> with only errors as result 11:42:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> i only once got a patch in ottd 11:42:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> but that was because the change was idiotly easy 11:42:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> and only involved changing a calculation around, not writing a feature from scrap 11:43:01 <Pinkbeast> peter: Compared to a pre-ANSI-C roguelike in '88? OK, there's some deep magic in places, but it's not too bad. 11:43:09 <peter1138> heh 11:43:35 <ZxBiohazardZx> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=62942 11:46:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> i gave it a try by copy pasting similar code but ofc it didnt work :P 11:48:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> r24866 is current head right? 11:48:38 <andythenorth> hmm 11:49:11 <ZxBiohazardZx> or is git not following svn anymore 11:49:27 <Pinkbeast> I'm not sure that muddling through by examining the current code must imply a complete aversion to the use of Google 11:49:47 <andythenorth> ZxBiohazardZx: so you can do partial differential equations, and eigenvectors, and finite element analysis, and static analysis of the moments of a truss bridge under load, and calculate the tensile strength of a piece of rebar, and the time it should take concrete to dry 11:49:51 <andythenorth> but you can't program :o 11:49:56 <andythenorth> programming is *easy* 11:50:02 <andythenorth> civil engineering is hard 11:50:10 * andythenorth quit civil engineering 11:50:17 <Pinkbeast> And leads to much more comedy when done wrong 11:50:33 <ZxBiohazardZx> yes i can andy 11:50:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> well i hate partial DE's and finite element analysis is not my cup of tea either 11:51:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> but i at least passed those subjects 11:51:25 <andythenorth> I pretty much failed eng. maths 11:51:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> as for concrete it takes 28 days to reach its final strenght unless you use some weird setup 11:51:34 <ZxBiohazardZx> haha 11:51:43 <ZxBiohazardZx> dont start about it, my eng maths are my only resit subjects :( 11:51:46 <andythenorth> and yet I have patches in openttd :P 11:51:48 <ZxBiohazardZx> still have to do 2 :( 11:51:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah yeah 11:52:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> is 24866 head? 11:52:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> or ? 11:52:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> ill try the screenshot dir implementation again 11:52:43 <ZxBiohazardZx> as that was another pain in my ass earlier 11:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: i thought that was already implemented...? 11:54:32 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:56:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> Eddi not that i know of :| 11:56:22 <ZxBiohazardZx> it was suggested, not actually implemented afaik 11:56:28 <andythenorth> so what production mechanic for port industries? 11:56:32 <andythenorth> always produce? 11:56:33 <peter1138> it is implemented 11:56:34 <ZxBiohazardZx> i gave it a very crappy try 11:56:37 <andythenorth> only produce when something delivered? 11:56:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: as primary industry 11:56:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> peter1138 what rev added it? 11:56:52 <peter1138> no idea 11:57:04 <ZxBiohazardZx> for i dont see it 11:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: potentially using the export cargos as booster 11:57:36 <Rubidium> ZxBiohazardZx: svn info svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk 11:57:42 <peter1138> 24804 11:57:51 <peter1138> 9th dec 2012 11:57:52 * andythenorth considers using gradual processing for once (aka stockpiling) 11:57:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> peter1138 thats not in 1.2.3 stable? 11:58:02 <peter1138> no 11:58:03 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:58:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz that might explain 11:59:51 <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway great! :) 12:01:22 <ZxBiohazardZx> blegh it needed mroe lines then i wrote :P 12:01:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> has some similarities though:P 12:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause> they always do :p 12:01:50 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah yeah 12:01:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> mine gave errros thus i forgot something 12:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "hey, daylength is a one-line patch" 12:02:18 <ZxBiohazardZx> my fios.cpp is bad, his actually adds the search :P 12:04:36 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, tee hee 12:06:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> does r24806 need dutch translation? 12:07:51 <Rubidium> it should already have one 12:08:29 <ZxBiohazardZx> ah didnt see it but fine 12:08:37 <Terkhen> http://translator.openttd.org/en/status <-- dutch seems to be at 100% 12:09:12 *** Jeroen [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:09:48 *** Jeroen is now known as Guest2832 12:10:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> its kinda literal but it works 12:10:41 <ZxBiohazardZx> STR_WARNING_SCREENSHOT_SIZE_MESSAGE :{YELLOW}De schermafdruk heeft een resolutie van {COMMA} x {COMMA} pixels. De schermafdruk maken kan even duren. Verder gaan? 12:11:34 <ZxBiohazardZx> ...pixels. Het maken van de schermafdruk kan even duren.... sounds more logical to myself 12:12:03 <Alberth> become a translator yourself, and improve :) 12:12:10 <ZxBiohazardZx> not sure why, the one selected is fine XD 12:12:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> true 12:14:24 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you] 12:15:10 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E167.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:18:56 <Pikka> only for once, andythenorth? 12:19:24 <andythenorth> think most of FIRS processes on arrival at industry 12:19:39 <andythenorth> hmm 12:19:46 <andythenorth> doing it literally once would be interesting 12:19:51 <andythenorth> a single-use industry 12:22:01 <andythenorth> fruit as an imported cargo for Arctic? 12:22:01 *** Guest2832 [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:04 <andythenorth> or a bit wrong really? 12:22:28 *** Jerre [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:30:56 <andythenorth> ho 12:31:16 <andythenorth> can clay be mined in Arctic o_O 12:31:26 * andythenorth proposes no 12:33:14 <drac_boy> clay? it has to come from under the ground .. which is frozen anyway? :) 12:33:27 <drac_boy> heh heh 12:37:41 <drac_boy> hmm what to call a grf that is more than just trains? 12:37:47 <drac_boy> "gameset grf" or what?? :-s 12:38:18 <andythenorth> drac.grf 12:42:10 <andythenorth> bad Eddi|zuHause - villages as industries :) 12:42:16 <drac_boy> that doesn't help andythenorth :P 12:42:31 <Terkhen> andythenorth: only in summer! 12:45:34 *** oskari892 [~oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:46:06 <andythenorth> maybe I put furniture factory back into Arctic Basic 12:46:12 <andythenorth> IKEA has to make all that crap somewhere 12:46:29 <Terkhen> don't they make it in china like everyone else? 12:47:08 <andythenorth> not sure :) 12:47:19 <andythenorth> China has sub-arctic regions too though :) 12:48:11 <andythenorth> I have timber (cut wood) as an export cargo, also considering alcohol, petrol, chemicals or goods 12:48:31 <andythenorth> probably alcohol and petrol 12:49:32 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:13 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 12:53:03 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:54:31 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:58:28 <peter1138> remember when people used cdrom drives to play audio cds? 12:59:15 <oskari89> Yes, and there was separate cable between CD-rom drive and sound card :D 12:59:34 <oskari89> For that purpose 12:59:59 *** Emmy-Eviltwin is now known as MNIM 13:00:01 <MNIM> wtf. 13:00:07 <MNIM> stupid windows xchat 13:00:10 * MNIM bashes. 13:00:15 *** oskari892 [~oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:00:30 <MNIM> why did I only notice that now? 13:02:24 <peter1138> yeah 13:02:38 <peter1138> don't think my soundcards have connectors for that :S 13:02:51 <MNIM> I had an audiojack in my cd drive. 13:03:08 <peter1138> i suppose everyone just downloads from itunes or something these days 13:03:32 <Pikka> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=42562&p=1058930#p1058930 13:03:35 *** Jerre [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:03:55 <Pinkbeast> It's a DVD drive, but I've still got such a setup 13:03:59 <peter1138> work on TaI? surely not! 13:04:34 <drac_boy> oskari89 that was only because audio couldn't be routed through the non-dma ata cables at the time 13:04:40 <drac_boy> but mm 13:04:42 <oskari89> Yeps 13:04:47 <peter1138> it still isn't 13:04:53 <oskari89> Pikka: That's a nice one :) 13:05:02 <drac_boy> udma/33 kinda made it reducent but some drives still choosed to do it that way tho 13:06:25 <oskari89> That's kind of hypnotic gif 13:06:29 <peter1138> originally reading CDDA was not well supported 13:06:35 <peter1138> nothing to do with UDMA 13:09:29 <peter1138> and it's still more efficient to get the drive to play back the audio 13:10:59 <Pinkbeast> Urrr. I might rather take that processing out of the drive and have it in the CPU where I can use it for other things when I'm not playing a CD. 13:12:40 <peter1138> it's a tiny part of the already existing processing capabilities of the drive 13:12:57 <peter1138> which is not general purpose 13:13:39 <Pinkbeast> In that case is it then a significant part of the CPU? # The usual cycle of reincarnation stuff suggests it can plausibly be done either way 13:14:28 <peter1138> significantly more 13:15:44 <peter1138> it involves cpu time, memory, memory bandwidth, pci(e) bus bandwidth, sending/receiving ATA commands/data, audio dma, etc etc 13:16:04 <peter1138> versus getting a cd player to do what a cd player was designed to do 13:16:23 <Pinkbeast> ... plus having the stuff in the CD player to do it 13:17:48 * drac_boy thinks peter1138 is overstating it a lot 13:18:29 <Pinkbeast> ... in particular, I suspect the bandwidth in both cases is about diddly squat 13:19:02 <drac_boy> pinkbeast yeah its only a few kb per sec which is nothing to pci (and even less to any form of pcie) 13:19:45 <peter1138> 176KB/s 13:20:02 <peter1138> not much but still requires processing 13:20:02 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 13:20:02 <drac_boy> thats too high 13:20:10 <peter1138> too high? 13:20:19 <peter1138> that's just the raw data 13:20:43 <drac_boy> then how do you compress 176 into 150 even less with overhead? 13:20:59 <peter1138> where do you get 150 from? 13:21:04 <Pinkbeast> Errr well it wouldn't be compression if it didn't make things smaller 13:21:12 <peter1138> what compression? :S 13:21:34 <Pinkbeast> I assume drac means "this compressed audio format can be done at 150KB/s", but I'm guessing 13:21:37 <drac_boy> 150 is the cd rate :p 13:21:51 <drac_boy> and as far as I know non-computer audio drives have always been 1x still 13:21:54 <peter1138> 150KB/s is single speed rate for DATA 13:22:06 <peter1138> data has additional overhead to ensure data integrity 13:22:24 <peter1138> audio uses a different scheme 13:22:28 <Pinkbeast> 176 seems a factor of 2 too high. 13:22:35 <drac_boy> Pinkbeast yeah that makes two of us 13:22:43 <Pinkbeast> Ah, but memory bandwidth, yes. 13:22:47 <peter1138> partly why early drives didn't support CDDA over the data interface, the on-disc format is different 13:22:58 <peter1138> 44100 * 2 * 2 = 176400 bytes/second 13:23:18 <peter1138> unless you're listening to mono or 8 bit CDs (which didn't exist) 13:23:24 <Pinkbeast> Do us a favour and say where the other *2 comes from 13:23:28 <drac_boy> the funny thing is I could find circuits for a simple 8mhz cdrom players .. and they never have any external memory at all 13:23:33 <peter1138> *2 = stereo 13:23:35 <peter1138> *2 = 16bit audio 13:23:46 <peter1138> drac_boy, exactly, they don't need it 13:23:57 *** Lappro [~Bubovi@ip54551278.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:23:59 <drac_boy> peter1138 so why do you talk about memory bandwidth if it doesn't exist? 13:24:02 <Pinkbeast> stereo: bingo, you're right. 13:24:07 <Lappro> good afternoon 13:24:11 <drac_boy> hi Lappro 13:24:17 <peter1138> drac_boy, memory IS used if you use your CPU to play back the audio 13:24:31 <drac_boy> peter1138 the 8mhz cpu IS PLAYING IT, thats why 13:24:40 <andythenorth> Pikka: wot, no country house :O 13:24:50 <drac_boy> how're you Lappro? (and btw its morning here ;) ) 13:24:51 <peter1138> drac_boy, go back to the start please 13:24:55 <Pikka> I haven't drawn them yet 13:25:02 <Pikka> and they won't be in cities anyway, only villages :P 13:25:08 <Lappro> im good, when itŽs holiday it is always better :P you? 13:25:11 <andythenorth> hey look! A town in 1890 that isn't all theatres 13:25:19 <drac_boy> pikka heh that would be a zone 0 only house right? 13:25:24 <andythenorth> seriously, the answer to the theatre bug should not be 'fix it in newgrf' 13:25:27 * drac_boy is slowly understanding the town zone thing I think 13:25:30 <peter1138> drac_boy, that was the whole argument, it's more efficient to have the cd drive play back the audio instead of getting the computer's cpu to handle it 13:25:36 <Pinkbeast> But that is ~ 1/1000 of the capacity of a PCI bus. :-) 13:26:09 <peter1138> Pinkbeast, pci has latency, and it can't do multiple things concurrently 13:26:11 <Pikka> why not, andy? 13:26:16 <drac_boy> peter1138 point is you complain about memory use, etc when I'm pointing out that it only needs a 8mhz cpu with no memory to be able to play the audio....meaning pci/etc does not matter 13:26:29 <Pikka> you don't have vehicles in 1890 without newgrfs, after all :) 13:26:35 <andythenorth> ach fair point 13:26:43 <andythenorth> conceded 13:26:45 <Pinkbeast> drac: But I think peter's contention is that the overheads associated with sending it through the machine's CPU is high 13:26:59 <drac_boy> andythenorth yeah you'll have to start at 1950+ to get any of the original vehicles I think 13:27:01 <Pinkbeast> *are high, bother 13:27:16 <Lappro> btw, does anyone have an estimate what a Raspberry Pi 2nd rev. (512MB ram) could run as a dedicated openttd server? 13:27:42 <drac_boy> Lappro for a headless server I don't see why it wouldn't work ... providing you don't use super-big maps perhaps 13:27:46 *** plkiller [d54335fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:27:50 <plkiller> hello 13:28:03 <Lappro> but what is the max capacity? how many users will it accept simulateously? 13:28:23 <drac_boy> Lappro theres too many factors but one of the few major ones is the size of the map to populate 13:28:33 <andythenorth> herp, paper mill could produce paper instead of goods 13:28:35 <Lappro> ok 13:28:36 <drac_boy> number of players does not matter btw 13:28:37 <andythenorth> controversial? 13:29:00 <Lappro> oh ok thx for the info 13:29:16 <drac_boy> andythenorth it depends .. "simple" is forest>papermill>town .. "advanced" is forest>papermill>printer>town 13:29:20 <Lappro> ill test it with different sizes then (when it is finished compiling) 13:29:21 <drac_boy> for lack of words 13:29:42 <drac_boy> the printer thing ironically exists in default arctic climate atm as far as I recall 13:29:59 <Pikka> it's not that ironic 13:30:02 <Pinkbeast> Printers in Simutrans which makes for a complicated chain with printer's ink and all 13:30:09 <andythenorth> given that I'm making a FIRS Arctic Basic 13:30:18 <drac_boy> Pinkbeast really? I never noticed that .. which pak did it come from? 13:30:19 <peter1138> andythenorth, you want more than 32 cargo types really, don't you? 13:30:19 <andythenorth> which is supposed to reflect standard Arctic 13:30:26 <andythenorth> peter1138: no actually :) 13:30:33 <andythenorth> do you have some spare though? 13:30:52 <drac_boy> 32 cargos seem a bit heavy to me :P 13:31:01 <drac_boy> but meh at least a player does not have to use all of them ;) 13:31:03 <Pinkbeast> Normal pak64's got printers (along with a demented selection of locomotives) 13:31:16 <drac_boy> Pinkbeast ah .. hm I've never used pak64....yet 13:31:21 <andythenorth> the basic FIRS economies have <20 cargos inc. PAX and mail 13:31:23 <andythenorth> by design 13:31:44 <peter1138> hmm, where to take clay 13:32:01 <andythenorth> paper mill 13:32:02 <plkiller> i have a problem with getting onto my friends server it says "network-game connection lost" almos at (1,7mb of 1.8mb) the end of downloading the map, if i try to connect to other other server with bigger map it loads faster and i connect without problem. i could connect when the map had 1.2mb in begining of the gameworld. do you guys have any solution? 13:32:08 <andythenorth> brick works if you have it 13:32:21 <drac_boy> andythenorth that reminds me... 13:32:35 <peter1138> ooh got a cement plant next to a station 13:32:41 <drac_boy> why do we have "brick works" rather than eg "bricks work" or "bricks works" .. or is it just something to do with english semastics? 13:32:55 <plkiller> so guys could you help me? 13:33:23 <drac_boy> plkiller you'll have to ask your friend to change his server host settings..thats all 13:33:31 <drac_boy> nothing that can be done on your side .. except for ping times 13:33:48 <plkiller> how do you change those? 13:33:59 <peter1138> andythenorth, bah, ISR doesn't have FIRS specific stations ;( 13:34:00 <plkiller> is it in openttd.cfg? 13:34:18 <andythenorth> peter1138: CHIPS does, but it's a bit fucked, and I don't know how to fix it :) 13:34:43 <peter1138> i only plain tiles in CHIPS 13:34:46 <peter1138> +see 13:34:59 <andythenorth> they'll show cargo if it's present 13:35:05 <andythenorth> whatever there's most of 13:35:07 <peter1138> ok 13:35:14 <peter1138> fix it to not misuse temp variables 13:35:35 <andythenorth> I should tell yexo :) 13:36:23 <plkiller> hey can someone try to connect to my server? 13:36:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: you should do a station set o_O 13:37:08 <Pikka> oh no I shouldn't 13:37:28 <andythenorth> oh yes you should 13:37:30 <Pikka> I made one station for pineapple, and then decided not to make any more 13:37:38 <peter1138> andythenorth, is the source open? 13:37:44 <plkiller> can someone try to connect to a server called "testing connection"? 13:37:45 <andythenorth> peter1138: CHIPS? 13:37:48 <peter1138> yeah 13:37:52 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository 13:38:47 <Pikka> works for me plk 13:38:53 <Pikka> and plkiller 13:39:09 <plkiller> did it download fast? 13:39:32 <Pikka> yes 13:39:48 <plkiller> because if my friend try to join it loads 1mb/min 13:40:50 <drac_boy> need to go for a while anyhow 13:40:52 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 13:41:03 <andythenorth> hmm 13:41:07 <andythenorth> CHIPS is nearly 2 13:41:18 <andythenorth> it's like the 3rd child I don't have :P 13:41:28 <andythenorth> it arrived in between the two I do have :P 13:43:44 <peter1138> cement plant is animating :D 13:44:02 <peter1138> oh dear 13:44:13 <peter1138> 300hp/510t train stuck going over a bridge :S 13:44:28 <peter1138> maybe i should've put a bit more on it 13:45:14 <plkiller> i need to check something is there a command for money? 13:45:36 <Pinkbeast> It's in the cheats menu 13:45:46 <plkiller> how do i get there ;P 13:45:54 <Pinkbeast> Ctrl-Alt-C IIRC 13:46:17 <plkiller> it doesnt work 13:46:30 <andythenorth> that kiln animation was painful to do :P 13:46:34 <andythenorth> should have rendered it 13:46:43 <andythenorth> I had to count tedious pixels 13:46:44 <Pinkbeast> I daresay there is some sort of web searching facility that will tell you what the keybinding is 13:48:51 <andythenorth> herm 13:49:14 <andythenorth> paper is an existing cargo so that's ok. But is it ok for industries to have different outputs in different FIRS economies? 13:49:30 <Pinkbeast> peter: send up a banking engine to get it across. :-) 13:51:58 <Pinkbeast> andy: I wouldn't complain, so sample size of one says, sure! 13:54:38 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:58:05 <andythenorth> hmm 13:58:09 * andythenorth drops the sawmill 13:58:21 <andythenorth> I should start a channel for my monologues 13:58:29 <andythenorth> so should drac_boy 13:59:20 <andythenorth> it's a form of teddy bear programming http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2005/01/rubberducking_a.html 14:01:31 <Alberth> I hope the mill missed your foot 14:01:48 <andythenorth> yes, but it didn't survive the fall 14:02:00 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:02:24 <andythenorth> if I break FIRS savegames, that's a minor version bump? 14:02:50 <andythenorth> I think semver says that's a major version, but meh 14:03:19 <Alberth> I don't see breaking of NewGRF as a problem; you're not supposed to change the NewGRFs anyway 14:04:26 <andythenorth> just wondering when to go to 0.9.0 instead of 0.8.x 14:04:35 <andythenorth> soon I think 14:05:43 <Alberth> you control the meaning of a 0.x.0 change :) 14:07:10 * andythenorth wonders if Arctic should export fish 14:07:13 <andythenorth> probly not 14:07:56 <Pikka> whales 14:08:43 <Alberth> it can export "scientific results" :p 14:09:07 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:13:43 <andythenorth> revised FIRS Arctic Basic: 17 cargos, 18 industries (4 of them black holes in towns) 14:13:45 <andythenorth> pretty good eh? 14:13:56 <Flygon> Alberth: You're one step closer to banning OpenTTD from Australia :p 14:14:21 <Alberth> ? 14:15:26 <Flygon> The Govt tends to go crazy over things such as graffiti being created by the gamer in video games 14:15:30 <Flygon> And other such things 14:15:44 <Flygon> Encouraging whaling could lead to another kneejerk response :p 14:16:25 <Alberth> oh, I meant real scientific results, about the weather and the climate and such 14:16:42 <Flygon> Ah 14:16:45 <Alberth> in particular, I did NOT mean japanese science :) 14:16:52 <Flygon> So, bad timing :p 14:17:24 <Alberth> bad making graffiti in the game sounds like a good addition :p 14:17:28 <Alberth> *but 14:17:34 <Kjetil> It can export documentaries about a loon sailing around in the artic disabling ships and other crimes 14:18:01 <Alberth> or expeditions to the real south pole :) 14:18:39 <Alberth> and if you wait a while, you can also have expeditions to the north pole :) 14:19:13 <Alberth> although quite likely, the world will have some other problems when that happens :) 14:19:21 <andythenorth> 'scientific supplies' 14:19:32 <andythenorth> I had 'survey supplies' in the original FIRS plan o_O 14:19:39 <andythenorth> would need a GS to make it interesting though 14:19:57 <Alberth> hire Zuu :) 14:19:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:22:41 *** plkiller [d54335fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:24:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BBA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:48 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:52:37 *** bolli [~Sam@192.67.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 14:53:23 <bolli> Hi all 14:53:31 <bolli> I've just got a quick coding question.... 14:54:02 <bolli> Is it possible to choose which sprite based on what cargo a vehicle carries? 14:54:08 <andythenorth> yes 14:54:23 <bolli> How? :p 14:54:29 <andythenorth> nml or nfo? 14:54:42 <bolli> nml 14:54:46 <andythenorth> hmm 14:55:18 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:55:20 <andythenorth> do you have any complicated cases you want to handle, or just simple cargo->sprites? 14:55:32 <bolli> Just cargo-> sprites 14:55:52 <andythenorth> complicated => things like sprites for different dates etc ;) 14:55:54 <bolli> So vehicles show vehicles on the wagon, Steel shows steel etc 14:56:11 <bolli> No, I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible :P 14:56:18 <andythenorth> you'll need a cargo translation table. ot one? 14:56:21 <andythenorth> got * 14:56:54 <bolli> Is that the cargotable{ } ? 14:57:01 <andythenorth> yes 14:57:14 <bolli> ok, yep, got one of those :) 14:57:29 * andythenorth wonders what action 3 is in nml :P 14:57:39 * andythenorth wikis 14:58:53 <Stimrol> I am running a server with very hard setup, I am thinking of adding weight multiplayer for Pikka 's UKRS2 newgrf. What is recommended settings, I now have slope steepness set to 10% and no weight multiplier 14:59:09 <andythenorth> bolli: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Item 14:59:15 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:59:15 <andythenorth> graphics {} block 14:59:45 <andythenorth> cargo_identifier: spritegroup; 14:59:46 <Pinkbeast> Stimrol: I find 3x is about right - certainly no more with the very early locomotives 14:59:48 <bolli> Ah, thanks andy :) 15:00:03 <bolli> I missed that reading through it... :) 15:00:13 <Pinkbeast> And don't try and move cargo with the Planet or Crampton unless it's downhill :-/ 15:00:43 <Stimrol> pink and is that okay with 10% slope 15:00:52 <Alberth> Stimrol: there are no globally agreed recommended settings, it depends on what you like 15:01:30 <Pikka> personally I play with 5x and 3% 15:01:49 <Pinkbeast> 10% is extremely high 15:02:05 <Stimrol> Alberth, yes I know, it is just if I will overkill it with highest slope and then adding multiplier also 15:02:09 <bolli> Next question... 15:02:13 <Alberth> Pinkbeast: I guess that's why it is called 'hard setup' :) 15:02:14 <bolli> GPL or CC licences? 15:02:15 <andythenorth> bolli: if you ever need anything more complicated, use a switch and check vars like cargo_type_in_veh, cargo_classes, or cargo_subtype 15:02:19 <andythenorth> GPL, v2 15:02:29 <bolli> Thanks andy :) 15:02:31 <bolli> x2 15:02:40 <andythenorth> CC is messier 15:03:08 <Alberth> Stimrol: that depends also on the set of vehicles that you use, the best approach is to try it in a test game 15:03:22 <Pinkbeast> I think weight multiplier is a better approach than an aggressive slope setting - slope setting makes no difference to accelerating trains on the flat, obviously. 15:04:05 <Alberth> Pinkbeast: they serve different needs; high slope setting makes you desperately avoid slopes 15:04:14 <Pinkbeast> Alberth: obviously yes 15:04:16 <Stimrol> using ukrs, and yes true it only slows them down and make players have to think about TE 15:04:27 <andythenorth> weight multiplier will kill you with UKRS 2 15:04:45 <andythenorth> it makes it not fun 15:04:45 <Stimrol> maybe more thought for NARS :) 15:04:55 <Pinkbeast> The Long Boiler and Coppernob are OK on freight with a weight multiplier 15:05:51 <V453000> I think weight multipler is a poor decision for all train sets, perhaps except japan 15:06:21 <V453000> but you usually dont play japan to have a cargo game 15:06:24 <Stimrol> Could maybe be fun to try the authors setting 5x and 3%, but 3% is makeing the slopes much easier :) 15:07:10 <Stimrol> I am trying a setup with fund only for industries V453000 15:07:15 <Pikka> higher weight multiplier gives you more differentiation between locomotives on the flat, too 15:07:39 <V453000> it does, but you can brutally abuse things on downhill 15:07:55 <V453000> which is nice but imo should stay within some boundaries 15:07:57 <andythenorth> I need all my trains at top speed for cargo coal :P 15:08:02 <andythenorth> coal / goal /s 15:08:26 <Pikka> just need more/longer trains, andy :P 15:08:30 <Pinkbeast> V453: I disagree - for example in UKRS1 if you don't have a weight multiplier there's little incentive to use the 0-8-0 freight over the 0-6-0 because in practice even the 0-6-0 can whisk coal trains about 15:08:59 <andythenorth> fewer shorter trains is a good strategy for cargo goal 15:09:11 * Pinkbeast hops on a vehicle with an 1-1-0 wheel arrangement and zooms off, anyway, see you all later 15:09:15 <Stimrol> V453000, what is it the weight multiplier going to change on downhill? 15:09:23 <andythenorth> but more, shorter trains means you have to dick around with escape depots or queing tracks or n-tile stations 15:09:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 15:09:37 <V453000> for full trains? Trains will accelerate like instantly on downhill ofc 15:09:48 <Pikka> do you, andy? 15:09:53 <Pikka> where's the server at? :) 15:09:56 <V453000> weight multiplier just creates a stupidly high differenece between full and empty trains imo 15:10:07 <Stimrol> that is nice factor, that you could have little troube also on downhill 15:10:38 <Stimrol> Pikka andy's or mine? 15:10:47 <Pikka> andy's 15:10:51 <V453000> honestly UKRS1 with any multiplier is really poor as it makes engines like the modern steamrers or GEC91 basically useless, the AL10 becomes the only considerable option 15:10:55 <Stimrol> thought so :) 15:12:09 <andythenorth> maybe time for an MP cargo game? 15:12:13 <andythenorth> I can only play in the evenings 15:12:18 <Pikka> maybe 15:12:20 <andythenorth> and only then if my ADSL holds up :P 15:12:24 <Stimrol> multiplier is HP and slope is TE 15:14:05 <Stimrol> This is a nice pointers I got, and I will probably have to tweak it a little in the beginning 15:15:55 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 15:15:59 <drac_boy> hi 15:16:24 <Stimrol> thanks for the help, now I know a bit more about the weight multiplier, because I never tried it out, because there is a lot between 2-255 in the setup :) 15:21:41 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-181-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:23:42 <andythenorth> RVs are so fricking faceted 15:23:59 <andythenorth> have to consider overtaking, station type, etc 15:24:21 * andythenorth also wonders why zeph bothers with the articulated (fifth wheel) trucks 15:24:35 <andythenorth> there are non-articulated ones which are faster + have same capacity, with none of the hassles 15:24:50 <drac_boy> problem is the axle loading :p 15:25:17 <drac_boy> thats why in real life a 18 wheel is lighter than 10 wheel in road surface sense :) 15:26:07 <andythenorth> yeah...but ottd doesn't care about that 15:26:09 <Pikka> I showed you my HOQVS plans, didn't I andy? 15:26:42 <drac_boy> andythenorth players do? :P 15:28:38 <drac_boy> anyway I had a quick question for someone... 15:29:30 <peter1138> did you lose it? 15:29:55 <V453000> I think he is typing it 15:29:56 <drac_boy> does the callback 14B anc 14C basically mean you can have one industry that more or less can randomize its input&output at build time? (like for example one farm may output crop1 but another farm output crop2 instead even although its the same industry id basically) 15:31:08 <drac_boy> V453000 thank you for figuring that out :P 15:31:19 <V453000> moo 15:31:20 <V453000> :) 15:31:30 <peter1138> drac_boy, basically, yes 15:31:55 <andythenorth> Pikka: they had no Q in previously? o_O 15:31:55 <peter1138> had implies you don't have it any more 15:32:10 <drac_boy> V453000 are you a cow? 15:32:12 <drac_boy> :) 15:32:24 <V453000> you didnt know? 15:32:31 <Pikka> well it's hovs2 15:32:37 <Pikka> thus hoqvs :) 15:33:29 <Pinkbeast> V: Er since the AM10's a pax EMU I don't see how weight multiplier affects its viability at all 15:33:39 <andythenorth> drac_boy: use those cbs with caution, they shaft unwary players 15:33:53 <andythenorth> there's industry in FIRS that uses it, and it shafted me :P 15:35:07 <andythenorth> IRL, all fertiliser is delivered by DC10 and 737 right? 15:35:39 <andythenorth> hmm 15:35:47 * andythenorth has an idea using industry airports 15:35:52 <Pikka> sounds plausible andy 15:36:00 <Pikka> new airports! \o/ 15:36:14 <drac_boy> V453000 are you a dairy or beef cow tho? ;) heh heh 15:36:18 <andythenorth> Pikka: got anything that would pass for an air tractor? 15:36:28 <andythenorth> http://www.airtractor.com 15:36:37 <drac_boy> andythenorth the farm thing was only an example. I wasn't going to use it for extreme industries :) 15:36:39 <Pikka> the low-wing plane in genav8? 15:36:54 <Pikka> it's not very airtractor though 15:38:18 <V453000> Pinkbeast: AL10, not AM10 15:38:20 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:51 <drac_boy> Pinkbeast unless I've noted it wrong ... a passenger is still a weighted cargo ... so one passenger is 1/16t at a multiplier of x1, you can see how many passengers at a higher multiplier can start adding several tons to a train 15:39:26 <Pikka> cargo multiplier isn't applied to passengers afaia 15:39:44 <peter1138> passengers aren't freight 15:39:53 <Pikka> perhaps they should be 15:39:59 <drac_boy> peter1138 if its not then why is it assigned in the cargo weights? 15:40:00 <Pinkbeast> Even if it did at 35 tons of carriage to 2 1/2 tons of pax it would hardly make much difference at typical multiplier settings 15:40:23 <drac_boy> Pinkbeast well I've noted otherwise with low-power carriages but might be just my experience tho 15:40:47 <peter1138> drac_boy, well how many people do you know weigh 0kg? 15:40:49 <Pinkbeast> drac: I think it's your imagination - I don't think pax weight is multiplied up at all 15:41:23 <drac_boy> pinkbeast or it means the weight multiplier is excluded from at least one cargo class 15:41:40 <peter1138> the multiplier is explicitly for freight 15:41:41 <drac_boy> either way I've had enough problem with these smaller railcars that barely can climb on low settings alone 15:42:33 <Pinkbeast> V453: the AL1? I think that's more to do with OTTD (absent NuTracks and friends) not representing the costs of electrification 15:42:43 <peter1138> if (!CargoSpec::Get(cargo)->is_freight) return 1; 15:42:46 <andythenorth> has someone fucked up their cargo newgrf and set the weight multiplier on PAX? o_O 15:42:48 <peter1138> return _settings_game.vehicle.freight_trains; 15:43:00 <drac_boy> pinkbeast I always did wonder why certain costs are a bit out of whack .. such as airports being way too cheap to build etc 15:43:00 <andythenorth> that would break RV stops too wouldn't it? o_O 15:43:03 <drac_boy> but meh :) 15:43:34 <drac_boy> I always run my games with basecost parameters set high for a lot of things, can't remember one time I ever disabled basecost at all 15:43:36 <Pinkbeast> Sure, if you can electrify everywhere, it doesn't make sense to build 9Fs when electric freight locomotives turn up. 15:43:58 <andythenorth> so probably drac_boy is just wrong about pax :) 15:45:18 <Pikka> he is, but I still think he's right that passengers /should/ be affected by the multiplier 15:45:35 <andythenorth> hmm 15:45:55 <Pikka> there's no logical reason for the exception 15:46:05 <Pinkbeast> I disagree - the multiplier's there because freight trains are artifically short in OTTD, but passenger trains aren't 15:46:14 <drac_boy> me wonder what else could be causing a fully loaded railcar to gain another few tons if its not the industry cargo >_< 15:46:22 <andythenorth> Pinkbeast: I disagree :) 15:46:44 <peter1138> if your freight trains aren't artifically short then you shouldn't be using the multiplier 15:46:45 <drac_boy> artifically short? you don't know of the mammoth train feature ever since the patch introduced it? :) 15:46:56 <drac_boy> just saying heh 15:47:11 <peter1138> yeah but most people don't make 20-plus-tile long trains 15:47:19 * andythenorth does 15:47:23 <andythenorth> but only with NARS 2 or canset 15:47:26 <Pinkbeast> The way time and distance scales make it difficult for trains to traverse junctions doesn't help there. 15:47:28 <andythenorth> it's bad form to do it with UKRS 2 15:47:31 <andythenorth> :P 15:47:51 <andythenorth> my NARS 2 trains never have 3 P42s on the front though :P 15:48:08 <andythenorth> but the freight trains will have lots of SD 40s 15:48:24 * andythenorth suspects Amtrak don't need 3 P42s on one train for power 15:48:31 <andythenorth> but because they break 15:48:36 <andythenorth> and crash into trucks a lot 15:48:41 <andythenorth> also 15:48:55 <andythenorth> the UKRS 2 thread attracts some interestingly passive aggressive posts :) 15:49:02 <drac_boy> actually some of the long distance trains especially autotrain do have two locomotives often 15:49:06 <andythenorth> or is it just aggressive? 15:49:11 * andythenorth can never tell 15:49:28 <drac_boy> but most other things are only one locomotive .. except for the push-pull trains (even then some of these are just one locomotive and one "engine-less baggage locomotive") 15:49:30 <Pikka> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=42562&p=1058955#p1058955 15:49:37 <Pikka> I have invented another curved line \o/ 15:50:18 <peter1138> heh 15:50:48 <drac_boy> andythenorth if you wanted a true freight train, go back several years ago to the CP railroad through the british columbia mountain 15:51:02 <andythenorth> drac_boy: have you been there? 15:51:16 * Pinkbeast stalks Tal's houses' thread 15:51:17 <drac_boy> 2-3 SD40 up front ... a set of 4 helper SD40 in middle ... and two helper-controlled remote SD40 on tail ...! 15:51:32 <andythenorth> drac_boy: I was in the Rockies for 3 months in 1998 15:51:38 <andythenorth> game set and match to me I think 15:51:40 <andythenorth> on this point 15:51:50 <bolli> No closing our pubs Pikka! 15:51:50 <Pinkbeast> If I wanted a true freight train I'd go to Peterborough (ugh!) and watch the ECML, that doesn't need any time machines 15:52:05 <andythenorth> I want a false freight train 15:52:06 <bolli> They're already managing well enough on their own :( 15:52:08 <andythenorth> !freight_train 15:52:10 <drac_boy> andythenorth sadly I've only been to victoria twice .. and Squash (right name?) once ... everything else has been from articles written by now-retired engineers themself etc 15:52:13 <andythenorth> or fright train 15:52:28 <Pinkbeast> Wouldn't a lot of empty hoppers be a false freight train? 15:53:01 <andythenorth> Pikka: the self-destroying building thing - burn out a car :P 15:53:12 <andythenorth> leave it for 1 month 15:53:21 <andythenorth> or have picniccers :P 15:53:36 <andythenorth> depending on the social state of the town o_O 15:54:52 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:55:11 <andythenorth> also, do your pubs accept alcohol? o_O 15:55:35 <Pikka> they could I suppose 15:56:05 <Pikka> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHJo-k6IHI4 there you go drac_boy, some pineappletrains at work 15:56:14 <andythenorth> do you have a bottle shop in TaI? 15:57:21 <Pikka> there's two pubs, the country one and the town one, I could make them accept alcohol if it's defined... 15:58:27 <oskari892> :) 15:59:24 <peter1138> that's calling for a hopper unloader 15:59:49 <drac_boy> andythenorth and Pikka do you two think that food producing industries should still be placed inside a town rather than out in the country? brewery, bakery, whatever 16:01:16 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:02:06 <Kjetil> industrial size bakeries and breweries do not need to be placed inside a town. Allthough most industry is 16:02:36 <Stimrol> Pikka this was the longest train I have seen in my life 16:02:46 <drac_boy> Kjetil mm good suggestion 16:03:02 <drac_boy> guess I could think about a 2x2 or bigger sized food factory of some sort 16:05:25 <Pikka> andythenorth, are there any other cargos you'd like town buildings to accept while I'm at it? 16:05:38 <andythenorth> brrp 16:06:11 * andythenorth thinks 16:06:32 <bolli> Livestock or Grain? 16:06:46 <bolli> For commercial buildings... 16:07:18 <andythenorth> Pikka: all up to you, FIRS has these covered with black hole industries...but: 16:07:29 <andythenorth> goods, alcohol, food, petrol 16:07:38 <andythenorth> and for bizarre, player-induced reasons, fruit :| 16:07:51 <Pikka> well, they all accept goods and food already... 16:08:00 <Kjetil> what about clothing ? 16:08:03 <Pikka> petrol I'm not sure about since I have my own black hole for that 16:08:21 <oskari892> Andythenorth: Do you have both Sawmill and Paper factory in Arctic FIRS? 16:08:50 <oskari892> It would be nice, at least here in Finland there is both on IRL economy 16:08:57 <andythenorth> there's also building materials, and probably will be cars 16:09:28 <andythenorth> oskari892: I'm removing Sawmill from Arctic Basic 16:09:31 <andythenorth> for game balance reasons 16:09:49 <oskari892> Ok, is it in something other Arctic version? 16:10:08 <andythenorth> it's in main 'FIRS' economy 16:10:10 * peter1138 checks bananas for tai updates :p 16:10:22 <drac_boy> heh 16:10:24 <oskari892> Andy: Okay 16:10:24 <andythenorth> and DanMacK wants to do a Canadian economy, which probably doubles for most of sub-arctic 16:11:01 <oskari892> Andythenorth: Have you seen DanMacK lately? 16:11:08 <andythenorth> not for a few weeks 16:11:11 <andythenorth> he's taking a break 16:11:22 <oskari892> Okay :) 16:11:36 <oskari892> He'll be back in a few weeks or so? 16:12:01 <peter1138> i thought oztrans had a monopoly on canadian things ;p 16:13:51 <drac_boy> canadian industries .. that would so have to include grain BIG time :P 16:14:06 <drac_boy> and a bit of potatos for the sake of the eastern proviences :) 16:14:13 <oskari892> He planned Finnish economy too 16:14:16 <andythenorth> potatos o_O 16:14:17 <Pikka> not yet peter1138 16:14:20 <drac_boy> or lumbers (although that already exists) for west canada 16:14:27 <andythenorth> vegetables are a bit lacking in FIRS 16:14:33 <Pikka> you can have one soon if you want to test it :) 16:14:37 <Pikka> meh @ vegetables 16:14:40 <Pikka> "grain" :} 16:14:41 <andythenorth> yeah 16:14:42 <chester_> men, is it possible to only recompile 1 header and keep every other header precompiled, then compile everything? 16:14:44 <andythenorth> green stuff is bad 16:14:45 <Kjetil> eat your vegetables! 16:14:50 <andythenorth> is TaI savegame compatible? 16:15:00 <andythenorth> let me rephrase 16:15:02 <oskari892> Potatos here too, and peat :) 16:15:07 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:15:11 <andythenorth> is TaI beta 0.3 compatible? 16:15:23 <Pikka> possibly? 16:15:30 <peter1138> i'd have to start a new game 16:15:33 <peter1138> but tai is worth it 16:15:40 <bolli> Out of asking, What does 1.3 break? 16:15:48 * andythenorth should fix this arctic economy before a new game 16:15:53 <bolli> against 1.2... 16:15:58 <Kjetil> how about garbage disposal ? 16:15:59 <andythenorth> but first I have to beat frosch's Silicon Valley script 16:16:02 <Pikka> it will probably work, but you won't get the full effect of the set if you're applying it to an already existing game 16:16:14 <peter1138> i'm only 6 years into this one, heh 16:16:17 <andythenorth> garbage disposal is the most boring industry chain ever 16:16:19 <peter1138> (game years, doh) 16:16:26 <peter1138> bolli, nothing in theory 16:16:32 <Kjetil> andythenorth: unless you are the mob in napoli ? :P 16:16:35 <peter1138> bolli, but that's why you get to test it 16:17:06 <bolli> right... :p 16:17:57 <bolli> What I actually meant, what from 1.2 will work with 1.3 and what wont- i.e. NewGRFs, scenarios 16:18:13 <Pikka> everything will work 16:18:29 <bolli> Without changes? 16:18:36 <Pikka> yes 16:18:42 <bolli> Ok, thanks :) 16:19:07 <bolli> I was worried that I'd have to go through my set of multiplayer scenarios and change them... 16:19:37 <Kjetil> andythenorth: is it still boring if you add recycling? 16:20:24 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:59 <Pikka> do you want the industries too, peter1138? I don't think they're broken at the moment. 16:21:29 <Pikka> I haven't started breaking them yet :) 16:21:33 <peter1138> heh 16:23:03 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:23:12 <Pikka> pub-be-gone seems to work, I guess I'll release a version or something. or should I quickly put the rookeries in first? 16:24:22 <andythenorth> rabbit warrens too? 16:24:24 <andythenorth> for food? 16:24:28 <andythenorth> and a monastery 16:24:33 <andythenorth> and a trout lake? 16:24:37 <andythenorth> and a castle? 16:24:48 <andythenorth> Kjetil: recycling exists in FIRS 16:24:58 <andythenorth> Pikka: can I haz industries? 16:25:01 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:25:04 <Pikka> castles might be good, as newobjects or something :) 16:25:15 <andythenorth> it would be nice to play an industry set, and report bugs to Other People 16:25:17 <Kjetil> andythenorth: hippie! :P 16:25:19 <Pikka> I'm actually not sure if much has changed in the industries since the last release, but sure 16:25:20 <andythenorth> instead of having to fix my own 16:25:34 <Pikka> I haven't done anything with the 19th c industries yet 16:25:40 <drac_boy> andythenorth heh well feel free to check mine out...in a month or two? ;) 16:25:58 <andythenorth> wow, you have a 0.1 nearly ready to go? 16:26:14 <andythenorth> where's your repo? o_O 16:26:38 <drac_boy> its only sprites and some newgrf wiki notes now :p 16:28:19 <drac_boy> might ask about a tt-forum website when I think I have enough to share pre-grf but we'll see about that tho 16:28:53 <andythenorth> me and Foobar estimated 1 year to get FIRS to a playable state ;) 16:28:59 <andythenorth> we were off by 100% 16:29:15 <drac_boy> heh well thats mainly because of trying to put so many things into it? :) 16:29:24 <andythenorth> with more than 2 people contributing, neither had kids or final year degree projects ;) 16:32:06 <Pikka> I'm confused 16:32:36 <Pikka> 0..4 First cargo type 16:32:40 <Pikka> 5..9 Second cargo type 16:32:44 <Pikka> 10..14 Third cargo type 16:32:52 <Pikka> surely those bit ranges are wrong :D 16:33:23 <Pikka> for callback 2A 16:33:50 <Pikka> surely it's just the first 3 bytes? 16:35:12 * andythenorth puzzles 16:35:28 <peter1138> do we have 3-byte callback results? 16:35:47 <Pikka> well 16:35:55 * drac_boy needs some non-usa tippler wagon photos -__ 16:35:56 <Pikka> it's a 4 byte and the highest byte is ignored 16:35:58 <peter1138> (good luck returning cargo types >= 32) 16:36:02 <Pikka> if it's the same format as the property 16:36:09 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:36:12 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:36:35 <peter1138> callback results are still limit to 15 bits iirc 16:36:52 <Pikka> hmm 16:36:58 <Pikka> okay, I guess it makes sense then 16:37:20 <Pikka> makes it a bit of an unreadable mess though :) I guess it's not unique among callbacks in that respect 16:37:30 <peter1138> nope 16:40:06 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 16:41:07 <Pikka> duh 16:41:13 <Pikka> of course callbacks are limited to 15 bits 16:41:18 <Pikka> sorry, it's late :) 16:41:41 <peter1138> i think there was talking about making them 32 bit (or some such) as some point 16:44:27 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.2.112.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 16:48:54 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:51:21 *** Lappro [~Bubovi@ip54551278.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has left #openttd [] 16:51:55 <drac_boy> mmm 17 wagon ids used and I haven't even gotten to any open top or special covered top ones yet 16:52:02 <drac_boy> fun..that is 16:52:27 <peter1138> that's okay, you've got 65535 in total 16:52:53 <drac_boy> more like 0 to 115 actually :) 16:53:35 <andythenorth> Pikka: did you lose interest in pineapple, or lack of time? 16:53:46 <Pikka> bit of both 16:53:56 <drac_boy> andythenorth ask him where the sea air ports are? :) 16:53:58 <drac_boy> heh 16:53:59 <Pikka> if I remade it it wouldn't be all-in-one 16:54:22 <peter1138> drac_boy, nah, nobody uses ttdpatch 16:55:00 <drac_boy> actually they do 16:55:33 <Pikka> nobody we care about uses ttdpatch, he means :) 16:57:34 <drac_boy> pikka then they're missing out on some nice networks ;) 16:58:08 <drac_boy> I meant to ask you pikka...why are the seaplanes included in av8 even although they can't be used? 16:58:42 <Pikka> they can be 17:01:39 <drac_boy> hm...ok 17:04:29 <drac_boy> I should go find something to eat so I'm going now heh 17:04:32 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 17:11:30 <Pikka> hmm andy, that will confuse people 17:12:04 <Pikka> my petrol stations are chibi versions of your petrol stations, but don't accept petrol :) I suppose I should make it so they do... or so that they don't appear if FIRS is loaded. 17:18:54 <andythenorth> one or the other :) 17:18:56 <andythenorth> chibi? 17:19:03 <andythenorth> you've been watching waybalu? 17:19:04 <andythenorth> :P 17:21:03 <Pikka> not lately 17:21:07 <Pikka> and there... 17:21:25 <Pikka> petrol stations now accept 4/8 petr if defined, pubs now accept 4/8 beer if defined 17:21:31 <MNIM> beer? 17:21:40 <Pikka> no, not beer 17:22:04 <Kjetil> etanols? 17:22:10 <Pikka> rookery can wait, I'll up the grf 17:22:13 <MNIM> awwww. 17:22:19 * MNIM leaves again 17:23:30 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:23:37 <Pikka> oh snap 17:23:42 <Pikka> the industry grf is version 6 17:23:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> out of curiosity: why is there the magic number 13 in bridge.h MAX_BRIDGES 17:23:56 <Pikka> how much am I going to have to fix if I bump it to 7? 17:23:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> static const uint MAX_BRIDGES = 13; ///< Maximal number of available bridge specs. 17:24:16 <planetmaker> not too much, Pikka. But... better got for v8 straight away 17:24:32 <Pikka> yeah, that's what I meant :) 17:24:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> why is it 13 and not anything else 17:24:41 <Pikka> because that was the number of bridges in TTD 17:24:59 <planetmaker> TTD had 11 bridges 17:25:12 <Pikka> did it though? 17:25:25 <Pikka> yes, openttd added two new tubular one 17:25:28 <Pikka> s 17:25:29 <planetmaker> the two additional tube bridges are openttd 17:25:33 <Pikka> because that was the number in openttd, then :) 17:25:37 <planetmaker> :-) 17:26:20 <Pikka> really? nothing broke? 17:26:30 <Pikka> I remember bumping UKRS2 and the whole thing fell in a heap 17:27:06 <Pikka> oh, undefined strings ahoy 17:27:19 <Pikka> that's not too bad 17:27:23 <planetmaker> Pikka, of course you'll need to do some conversion... e.g. look at callbacks and their size 17:28:26 <MNIM> So, let me get this straight. 17:28:26 <peter1138> hmm chips won't compile :p 17:28:29 <planetmaker> Pikka, not sure there exists such summary for NFO. But NML 0.2 is basically grf v7 while NML 0.3 is grf v8. Thus this applies approx. to NFO, too: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Changes_0.3 17:28:36 <MNIM> this bridge limit has not been changed because... 17:28:42 <andythenorth> -Whistling tunes we hid in the dunes by the seaside 17:28:46 <Pikka> because you haven't changed it yet 17:28:49 <andythenorth> Whistling tunes we're kissing baboons in the jungle 17:28:52 <planetmaker> MNIM, because noone implented proper NewGRF bridges 17:28:57 <peter1138> MNIM, it's never been made dynamic 17:29:00 <planetmaker> *implemented 17:29:05 <MNIM> ah. 17:29:15 * MNIM can guess those reasons. :P 17:30:01 <andythenorth> peter1138: any compile error? 17:30:01 <ZxBiohazardZx> so there is no actual other reason then "we just dont have more" 17:30:13 <andythenorth> it's only nfo + C pre-processor 17:30:27 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 17:30:56 <peter1138> Processing file "chips.nfo". 17:30:56 <peter1138> Error on sprite 342. 17:31:09 * bolli goes to complete the theory of "If you can't work it out yourself, find an open source project to use as an example" 17:31:09 <peter1138> . //!!Error (227): Offset 31: Unknown data does not allow processesing past this point. 17:31:13 <peter1138> . //!!Fatal Error (64): Expected more data for prop 1A. (1 bytes at 119.) 17:31:47 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:32:29 <andythenorth> peter1138: clean r222 compiles for me :| 17:32:29 <peter1138> i don't see anything wrong with it mind you 17:32:52 <andythenorth> GRFCodec trunk r944 17:32:55 <peter1138> hmm, ok 17:33:01 <peter1138> clean works, so... my fault :p 17:33:05 <peter1138> weird though 17:35:33 <peter1138> oh i see 17:36:55 <peter1138> now it compiles but doesn't work :D 17:37:27 <andythenorth> that sounds more like my usual experience ;) 17:38:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> from a n00b point of view, would just changing it from static const to static not do the tric? 17:40:45 <Pikka> new TaI houses and industries are on a banana, peter1138 and andythenorth 17:41:18 <ZxBiohazardZx> ow great Pikka, that animated image looked great! 17:45:29 * andythenorth likes a banana 17:46:20 <andythenorth> why 'check online content' 17:46:26 <andythenorth> instead of 'get online content' or something? 17:46:36 <andythenorth> or just 'content download' 17:46:37 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB5D8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:47:19 <andythenorth> get addons 17:47:28 <andythenorth> 'send me the codez' 17:47:38 <andythenorth> 'all the modz' 17:47:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> gief me all your monejz 17:48:05 <Pikka> whoops, petrol stations appear to accept plastic instead of mail. Oh well. :) 17:48:25 <planetmaker> it's the future. It's plastic. It's fantastic 17:48:39 <ZxBiohazardZx> its fuel containers 17:48:46 <ZxBiohazardZx> in the future your car will drive on plastics? 17:49:09 <Pikka> yes 17:49:28 <michi_cc> Pikka: It's not an exhausting list, but the wiki does have a short summary on GRF changes: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Version_numbers#GRF_version_7 17:50:37 <michi_cc> And did you see http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1058620#p1058620 ? 17:52:02 <Pikka> I did, thanks 17:53:55 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 17:59:26 <andythenorth> now /me can steal pikka's industry ideas :x 17:59:37 <Pikka> not yet you can't 17:59:42 <Pikka> there's nothing in there that wasn't in PBI :P 18:00:42 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.] 18:00:44 <andythenorth> so I see :) 18:01:45 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:02:02 <Pikka> when I do get around to updating it, I'm going to dump the entire TTD primary production system and code my own in the grf >_> 18:02:28 <Pikka> cue cries of "that's what gamescripts are for" 18:02:38 <andythenorth> eh no 18:02:44 <andythenorth> that's what newgrf is for ;) 18:02:48 <Pikka> yes 18:02:49 <Pikka> :P 18:03:29 <andythenorth> what will you do? 18:04:21 <Pikka> reduce production for the 19th century 18:04:42 <Pikka> have a more refined form of the "estimated resources" 18:04:49 <Pikka> do something interesting with farms 18:06:15 <andythenorth> seasonal production? :P 18:06:25 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:06:44 <Pikka> *maybe* give industries a crude internal "economy" for the purposes of production increase/decrease/shutdown 18:06:45 <Pikka> eh 18:06:54 <andythenorth> changing production according to epoch might be an idea worth stealing 18:06:55 <Pikka> seasonal production would probably be annoying 18:07:02 <andythenorth> +lots to annoying :) 18:07:05 <planetmaker> +1 18:07:33 <Pikka> coal miner strikes? 18:07:47 <andythenorth> 1982 18:08:15 <andythenorth> 1984 even 18:08:27 <Alberth> sounds more like a disaster :) 18:09:31 <peter1138> andythenorth, http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/noregisters.diff 18:09:56 <peter1138> == no more broken sprites 18:10:39 <peter1138> might not be right but as there's nothing in there to set a register then it shouldn't be reading them either 18:15:33 <andythenorth> thanks 18:15:35 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:15:37 <andythenorth> will test after bath time 18:20:52 <Stimrol> Pikka, I would not find this tal buildings ingame by searching "tal" had to type "pikka" or "houses" just so you know 18:21:17 <Pikka> that's because it's an I, not an l :) 18:21:40 <Stimrol> ahh silly me :) 18:21:47 <andythenorth> TaI 18:21:47 <Stimrol> thanks 18:21:49 <andythenorth> T&A 18:21:50 <andythenorth> :P 18:22:05 <Pikka> filthy swine 18:22:19 <andythenorth> TampersandI 18:23:05 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:23:05 <peter1138> i'm guessing TaI industries isn't going to work well with FIRS? 18:25:04 <Stimrol> and also me because I am sound blind, thought it was Tall :D 18:25:04 <planetmaker> :D 18:29:37 <Pikka> do any industry sets work well together? 18:29:46 <peter1138> probably not 18:29:59 <peter1138> especially as firs has like 5678493 industries 18:31:43 <Kjetil> more industrious than a hooker on crack ? 18:33:02 <Alberth> most hookers on crack don't own any industry :p 18:33:26 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 18:35:34 <Pikka> and he should know 18:35:37 <Pikka> anyway, bedtime 18:36:20 <Pikka> glhf 18:36:22 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-0-143.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:39:25 <andythenorth> peter1138: you have a bigger FIRS than me :O 18:39:42 <andythenorth> do you have a secret patch to increase number of industries o_O 18:40:16 <peter1138> shush! 18:40:35 * SpComb has yet to play a FIRS game with more than one of each industry 18:40:46 <peter1138> really? 18:40:47 <SpComb> it would need a 512x512 map or so :) 18:40:52 <peter1138> hmm 18:41:02 <peter1138> i'm using 512x512, but with loads of water and very low towns 18:41:11 <SpComb> 256x256 would get crowded with more than one of each 18:41:29 <andythenorth> iirc, 256x256 can't even build 1 of each 18:41:36 <peter1138> damn, chips stations don't draw passengers :p 18:42:16 <andythenorth> no 18:42:20 <andythenorth> I am misanthropic 18:42:29 <andythenorth> I don't want to see more people than I have to, even in pixel form 18:42:58 <andythenorth> on 256x256 with 'normal industry' map gen setting, you should get ~1 of each FIRS industry 18:42:58 <V453000> :DD 18:43:07 <andythenorth> 55 is about right 18:43:18 <andythenorth> on low or very low, broken chains everywhere 18:43:27 <andythenorth> also applies to any smaller map 18:43:36 <SpComb> hmm, I play with low industries, and no broken chains, I think 18:43:44 <V453000> would be wise to always force at least 1 of each to spawn at start 18:43:48 <SpComb> except sugar cane plantation thingie produces nothing 18:43:51 <andythenorth> it might be doing the 'build at least one thing' 18:43:59 <andythenorth> SpComb: sounds like a bug, which FIRS version? 18:44:03 <SpComb> bananas 18:44:10 <SpComb> dunno 18:44:12 <peter1138> same here 18:45:17 <andythenorth> temperate and / or arctic climates, right? 18:45:36 <andythenorth> that industry shouldn't even be available to you :) 18:45:40 <andythenorth> that's one of the bugs 18:45:41 <peter1138> heh 18:45:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24867 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2012-12-28 18:45:30 UTC) 18:45:43 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:44 <DorpsGek> belarusian - 40 changes by KorneySan 18:45:45 <DorpsGek> greek - 9 changes by Evropi 18:45:46 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 51 changes by fanioz 18:45:47 <DorpsGek> polish - 29 changes by wojteks86 18:45:48 <DorpsGek> russian - 2 changes by KorneySan 18:46:32 * andythenorth will fix that :P 18:46:42 <andythenorth> lots of 0.8.x trivial versions :| 18:46:51 <peter1138> is it possible to convert implicit orders to real orders? 18:48:55 <Rubidium> no(t yet) 18:56:34 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.2.112.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:08 <andythenorth> meh, I should make FIRS code explicitly enable industries instead of explicitly disable :P 19:18:52 *** eQualizer [~lauri@46-163-223-93.blcnet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:21:56 <andythenorth> peter1138: CHIPS fix appears to work :) 19:21:59 <andythenorth> thanks 19:23:11 *** Emmy-Eviltwin [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:28:35 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB5D8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:29:09 <andythenorth> have some bananas and chips 19:30:20 *** MNIM [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:30:24 *** bolli [~Sam@192.67.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:33:47 <andythenorth> finally, I have a project with no open issues :o 19:36:52 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-102-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 19:36:52 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-102-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:00 *** Enemy [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:46:04 *** Emmy-Eviltwin [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:02 <peter1138> haha 19:50:37 * andythenorth breaks FIRS 0.8.2 savegames :P 19:51:20 <andythenorth> Terkhen: a FIRS string changed, if you want to update translations? 19:51:23 <andythenorth> also planetmaker ^ 19:51:47 <andythenorth> I'm going to tag and release any time tonight, can wait if you want to commit lang updates ;) 19:52:00 * Kjetil ponders how planetmaker's bowels works.. him being a planet maker and all 19:52:27 * andythenorth never ponders that kind of thing 19:52:56 <peter1138> ask slartibartfast 19:53:27 <peter1138> he looks pretty normal though, if you ask me 20:07:39 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:08:03 <Wolf01> evening! 20:10:32 <Terkhen> andythenorth: can you point me to the specific string? I don't have much time to commit it myself today 20:12:38 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 20:15:31 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:15:59 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:36 <andythenorth> Terkhen: pull and search SUGAR_PLANTATION in the lang file 20:19:51 <andythenorth> change is 'Sugarcane Plantation' -> 'Sugar Plantation' 20:20:35 <andythenorth> STR_FUND_SUGAR_PLANTATION probably needs no change, just the identifier changed 20:20:38 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:20:51 <Terkhen> let me see 20:24:10 <peter1138> FS#5413 - Crash on Applying NewGRF Changes 20:24:13 <peter1138> no really? 20:24:16 <Terkhen> andythenorth: done 20:24:34 <andythenorth> Terkhen: thanks :) 20:24:38 <peter1138> hmm 20:24:47 <peter1138> although i assumed mid-game, heh 20:27:15 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:44:00 *** Emmy-Eviltwin [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:51:05 *** Enemy [~Emmy@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:51:24 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-102-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 240 seconds.] 20:53:01 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@pD9EB5D8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:53:09 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 20:58:28 <planetmaker> hm, the FIRS german translation needs more than a quick update :-) 21:03:49 <andythenorth> oh yes :) 21:03:53 <andythenorth> you were away ;) 21:12:17 <peter1138> hmm, when was basque added 21:15:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r24868 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2012-12-28 21:15:19 UTC) 21:15:26 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24797): Update VS projects to include Basque translation. 21:15:44 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-181-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24869 /trunk/src/lang (11 files in 2 dirs) (2012-12-28 21:36:24 UTC) 21:36:31 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5411]: Unify the way maglev is written 21:39:01 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:44:44 *** Nothgrim [52a87b6e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:45:07 <murr4y> can you get messages when trains get lost but not when getting older? 21:45:40 *** Rhamphoryncus_ [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:55 *** Nothgrim [52a87b6e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 21:46:24 *** Rhamphoryncus_ [~rhamph@d173-183-158-32.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:51:48 <andythenorth> is flying grain around wrong? 21:51:53 <andythenorth> even for a cargo goal GS? 21:55:56 <planetmaker> should it be wrong? 21:56:12 <andythenorth> dunno :) 21:56:16 <andythenorth> I might need to do it 21:56:22 <andythenorth> to get silver even 21:57:30 <peter1138> ships 21:57:34 <peter1138> are so slow 21:57:45 <peter1138> that you need either masses of them, or huge ones 21:58:28 <peter1138> i'm guessing lots of small ones is better to provide a steadier supply of cargo 21:58:51 <andythenorth> yup 22:01:20 <peter1138> so we need an inccentive 22:01:22 <peter1138> -c 22:01:39 <peter1138> like not allowing more than 1 ship at a dock 22:01:46 <peter1138> hmm 22:01:49 <andythenorth> that would ruin my game :) 22:01:51 <andythenorth> but yeah 22:01:54 <andythenorth> maybe 5 :P 22:01:58 <peter1138> and then multi-stop docks 22:01:59 <andythenorth> or multi-docks 22:02:05 <andythenorth> not xor :P 22:02:21 <peter1138> multi-stop docks! 22:02:45 <peter1138> gah, my single coal mine is providing too much coal 22:03:03 <andythenorth> quadruple boost? 22:03:05 <peter1138> so the steel mill stops accepting it 22:03:13 <andythenorth> oh PBI :) 22:03:15 <peter1138> aye 22:03:22 <peter1138> well, TAI industries now ;p 22:03:27 <SpComb> that was terrible 22:03:35 <peter1138> lies 22:03:39 <SpComb> when the secondary idustries stopped accepting 22:04:56 <andythenorth> gah 22:05:00 <andythenorth> road vehicle limit :( 22:05:29 <SpComb> but I don't really get the dbsetxl cargo trains around 1940-50 22:05:45 <SpComb> I guess you're supposed to electrify everything by then 22:15:01 <SpComb> last game I just stopped playing once the BR75 expired, never upgraded, pretty lame 22:21:39 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 22:21:42 <drac_boy> hi 22:39:20 <peter1138> shame that roadstops are called roadstops :S 22:39:52 <drac_boy> sounds like a bit odd name to me too :/ 22:40:35 <Terkhen> good night 22:40:38 <drac_boy> bye Terkhen 22:47:09 <drac_boy> anyone here think that "carrying axles" in a locomotive classification would meant unpowered axles for certain? 22:49:49 <michi_cc> SpComb: It's called WWII. 23:02:37 <drac_boy> oh geeze... 550psi boiler on a metre gauge locomotive 23:02:42 * drac_boy must find more to read 23:05:48 *** orudge` is now known as orudge 23:11:33 <andythenorth> hrm 23:11:47 <andythenorth> the commuter airport is rather better than most of the other airports 23:11:53 <andythenorth> as long as you only want small planes 23:11:55 <andythenorth> and helicopters 23:12:05 <peter1138> SL_MAX_VERSION 255 23:12:07 <peter1138> that's... close :p 23:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: is there an actual reason for that limit? 23:27:06 <peter1138> not really, it's a 16 bit value 23:27:34 <peter1138> and who can forget the fun of minor versions 23:29:10 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea, when i came along that already said "do not use!" 23:29:16 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 23:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i once suggested to use those for patched builds, but nobody caught onto that idea 23:30:25 <andythenorth> hmm 23:30:28 <andythenorth> too many vehicles in game :P 23:35:04 <oskari89> Is there currently a limit for ID's of rail vehicles? 23:35:41 <Wolf01> 'night 23:35:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:36:12 <peter1138> oskari89, yes 23:36:28 <peter1138> andythenorth, http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/multidock.png, hah 23:36:52 <andythenorth> har har 23:37:08 <peter1138> (that's not multiple stations) 23:37:15 <andythenorth> that would definitely screw my current game :) 23:37:48 <peter1138> it screws any game at the moment as there's no code to select a destination 23:37:53 <peter1138> to the ship tries to go to st->xy 23:37:58 <peter1138> which... aint gonna work 23:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: if you use grf version 8, 64k vehicle-ids, and 16k in the articulation callback 23:40:35 <peter1138> andythenorth, and it doesn't necessarily mean that ships can't use the same dock concurrently 23:40:45 <andythenorth> :P 23:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> # IHR SEID SO LEISE 23:54:06 <andythenorth> oops 23:54:10 * andythenorth forgot to go to sleep