Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:06 <peter1138> it's not a procedure 00:00:16 <peter1138> it ensures the temporary register is set to 0 00:00:24 <peter1138> (1A & 00) = 00 00:00:28 <Pikka> yes, 00:00:40 <Pikka> but with nvar 0, it then returns the result as a callback result 00:01:00 <Pikka> which seems a bit pointless, why save something in a temporary register if you're not going to do anything with it? :) 00:01:14 <peter1138> yes exactly 00:01:20 <peter1138> it's being... i don't know what i'm doing :D 00:02:03 <peter1138> where are the escape sequences document? heh 00:02:05 <peter1138> *documented 00:02:12 <Pikka> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VarAction2Advanced 00:02:13 <Wolf01> 'night all 00:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause> in the varaction2advanced page 00:02:18 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:02:24 <peter1138> not those 00:02:27 <peter1138> the \wx etc etc 00:03:02 <Pikka> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GRFActionsDetailed 00:04:01 <peter1138> hmm 00:04:08 <peter1138> so \wx is 00 00 00:04:11 <Pikka> yes 00:04:35 <peter1138> so it's not a callback result 00:04:38 <Pikka> it is 00:04:45 <Pikka> because you used nvar 0 00:04:53 <peter1138> oh what 00:04:59 <peter1138> fricking crap 00:05:08 <Pikka> if you want it to go on to action 2 00 you need to use 00:05:18 <Pikka> 01 00 00 \w0 \w0 00 00 00:05:24 <peter1138> patchman 00:05:28 <Pikka> rather than 00 \w0 00:05:29 <peter1138> sometimes i fucking hate you! 00:05:47 <Pikka> :] 00:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is a trap even for some non-newbies ;) 00:06:31 <Pikka> oh 00:06:44 <Pikka> 01 00 00 \b0 \b0 00 00 since it's an 81 :) 00:09:59 <peter1138> //!!Warning (170): Default result cannot be reached. 00:10:00 <peter1138> eh 00:10:19 <frosch123> yeah, that one is the best :) 00:10:33 <frosch123> everyone disables 170 :) 00:11:07 <peter1138> what the shit 00:12:14 <Pikka> yes 00:12:37 <Pikka> I have about a dozen warnings disabled as standard, I don't even remember what they all are. 00:13:03 <Pikka> 172, 132, 100, 194, 170, 144, 86, 76, 209, 141 and 113 in UKRS2... 00:13:43 <Pikka> peter1138: you put // @@WARNING DISABLE 170 somewhere up the top of your NFO. 00:13:44 <peter1138> well this is a bit irritating 00:14:16 <peter1138> now have to fix 17 instances of nvar 0 == callback result 00:14:20 <Pikka> :) 00:14:22 <peter1138> who the fuck implemented this shit 00:14:37 <Pikka> some cunt or other 00:14:41 <peter1138> i bet 00:15:01 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it was Kant :) 00:16:16 <peter1138> frosch123, see, if i'd used memset, i'd've been in bed HOURS ago 00:16:56 <frosch123> but... would it have been fun? :p 00:18:12 <peter1138> there is so much repition 00:18:24 <peter1138> i'm glad none the stations i did had any varactions :p 00:18:30 <peter1138> or cargos 00:18:32 <peter1138> or anything 00:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> with your newfound knowledge, you can now implement station support in nml :) 00:19:14 <Supercheese> ^ 00:20:59 <peter1138> yay it compiles 00:21:45 <peter1138> hg commit i reckon 00:22:28 <peter1138> or i rewrite it using an include... 00:22:29 <peter1138> nah 00:25:38 * Pikka bebl 00:26:24 <peter1138> lol 00:26:33 <peter1138> look at that, it's still broken... 00:27:37 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:30:21 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 00:31:24 <peter1138> ok that was already wrong, so i've not broken it, just not fixed it either 00:32:01 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 00:32:23 <drac_boy> supercheese were you the one trying to draw seagulls? or was that someone else? I think I may have messed up my S names 00:32:33 <Supercheese> Yeah, I've got seagulls 00:32:48 <drac_boy> how're they going? especially over the fishing ground? :) 00:33:19 <Supercheese> I think my preprocessor hates me though, since when I moved everything into separate *.pnml files the .grf doesn't work any more -_- 00:33:32 <Supercheese> All I did was separate and #include 00:33:56 <drac_boy> ic 00:33:58 <Supercheese> So I've reverted into everything-all-in-one-giant-file 00:34:16 <Supercheese> back to* 00:35:23 <peter1138> Pikka, stop it 00:36:49 <drac_boy> where did the word 'flats building' come from anyway? 00:36:54 * drac_boy is wondering 00:37:07 <peter1138> what's a "flats building"? 00:37:38 <drac_boy> uk term apparently ... we just call them towers like everything else here 00:38:15 <peter1138> oh you mean "flats" 00:38:50 <drac_boy> hm yeah think so 00:39:35 <drac_boy> at least 'terrace house' I can understand .. they're a bit alike to rowhouses over here 00:42:31 <peter1138> so y eah 00:42:39 <peter1138> they're called flats, cos they're flat 00:42:50 <peter1138> single-floor homes 00:43:50 <Elysium> oth words are used in the UK: a "flat" would generally be a fairly 'ordinary' residence that doesn't constitute the entire space within a building, whereas an "apartment" tends to imply a similar concept, but more luxurious. As I understand, "flat" is rarely used in the US. 00:44:40 <peter1138> apartment is only used to make them _sound_ posher, however it usually means it'll be a new build and thus horrible 00:44:48 <peter1138> (not that flats are nice anyway) 00:45:05 <Supercheese> "flat" is indeed basically never used in the US 00:45:15 <Supercheese> Pretty much always "apartment" 00:45:16 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.122.31] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:45 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.175.97] has joined #openttd 00:45:52 <Elysium> Its more of a yuppie term for very urban dwelling, like Chicago 4-flat in Wrigleyville 00:49:53 <drac_boy> elysium also some people use 'shack house' (or was it 'shackle house'?) to refer to something that seem so run down whether its got any working servics or not 00:50:12 <peter1138> ramshackle 00:50:50 <peter1138> heh, cool, chips uses random bits that ... don't exist :p 00:51:55 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:52:16 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: don't try to fix other people's code after midnight :p 00:52:24 <peter1138> not touching that 00:52:35 <peter1138> just setting the triggers so i can test rerandomising 00:52:39 <Elysium> Apartments = low property values, and later section 8 housing 00:52:43 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.122] has joined #openttd 00:52:52 <drac_boy> yeah that peter1138 I forgot exactly what it was called at first 00:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Elysium: so what's that "condo" term i'Ve heard somewhere? 00:53:27 <Elysium> basically its a house split in half 00:53:48 <drac_boy> isn't a house based space usually called a duplex or triplex anyway? 00:53:49 <Elysium> like take a small house, mirror it on the other side, and thats a condo 00:54:05 <drac_boy> minding you that triplexs are a bit rare .. usually need a big house to work 00:54:08 <peter1138> lies! 00:54:10 <Elysium> divided by a garage 00:54:13 <Elysium> in most cases 00:54:25 <peter1138> a condo is a flat that is individually owned 00:54:31 <peter1138> at least, in the US 00:54:34 <peter1138> allegedly! 00:54:46 <Elysium> correct, condo's are personally owned, and not rented 00:54:49 <peter1138> 2 houses stuck together is call a semi-detached ;p 00:55:23 <Eddi|zuHause> in german the term "DoppelhaushÀlfte" (double-huse-half) is frequently used 00:55:28 <Elysium> i've seen places that look like apartments called or sold as condos 00:55:37 <peter1138> exactly 00:55:53 <peter1138> "A condominium, or condo, is the form of housing tenure and other real property where a specified part of a piece of real estate (usually of an apartment house) is individually owned" 00:56:00 <Eddi|zuHause> *house 00:56:07 <drac_boy> sometimes some people may manage to have a triplex designed as a house with 2 floor and full height basement .. so its then one-floor home space for each person with outside stairway to get to the upper floor home 00:56:21 <peter1138> there's also "cluster homes" 00:56:27 <Elysium> I'll throw you guys a term that I used when purchasing my house, In-law suite 00:56:34 <peter1138> which are 4 homes on each corner 00:56:39 <peter1138> horrible nasty things they are 00:56:51 <Elysium> In-law suite is defined as a separate living area with a full kitchen and sleeping area 00:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: so a "condo" is what one would call "Eigentumswohnung" (owned-flat) 00:57:10 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, nah, i'm english, we don't use the word 00:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 00:57:23 <Elysium> thus my mother in-law lives in my basement and I never see her, and make my old lady do my laundry 00:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: we gave you the opportunity to change that... :p 00:57:49 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.67.43] has joined #openttd 00:57:55 <peter1138> equivalent term is "commonhold", in constrast with freehold/leasehold, etc 00:57:56 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:58:09 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, well, now we're forced anyway with the eurozone ;p 00:58:13 <frosch123> night 00:58:16 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7c27.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: you're not even in the eurozone 00:58:52 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, i'm pretending i'm a daily mail or the sun reader 01:02:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:04:10 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.199] has joined #openttd 01:08:55 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.67.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:09:30 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.64.253] has joined #openttd 01:14:45 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:15:10 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.66.212] has joined #openttd 01:19:34 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.64.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:26:19 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.74.5] has joined #openttd 01:30:43 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.66.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:31:00 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.246] has joined #openttd 01:31:27 <drac_boy> pikka you by any chance there for a moment? 01:35:35 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.71.94] has joined #openttd 01:36:23 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.74.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:18 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:40:33 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:40:45 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.175.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:01 *** pikka2 [~yaaic@58.108.147.1] has joined #openttd 01:41:14 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.174] has joined #openttd 01:41:19 <pikka2> innit 01:42:22 <pikka2> here I am, standing by a busy road at indooroopily 01:43:48 <pikka2> wot larks 01:45:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19C90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "So steh ich hier und kann nicht anders" 01:45:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (allegedly said by Martin Luther) 01:46:06 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.71.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:46:14 <pikka2> what a guy 01:47:08 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.67.253] has joined #openttd 01:51:10 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.78.87] has joined #openttd 01:51:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.71.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:53:06 <pikka2> I am now in a different place, I was in someone's way 01:53:14 * drac_boy is trying to figure out what 'wot larks' means 01:53:21 <pikka2> such details! 01:53:47 <drac_boy> heh 01:54:25 <drac_boy> anyway pikka2 I'm just curious (don't mind me asking you since ukrs is the only one I know with this kind of thing) but how hard is it to code a single locomotive to run with different spec on different railtypes? 01:54:39 <drac_boy> especially that electro-diesel one .. or any of the overhead/3rd rail emu 01:55:19 <peter1138> if railtype == blah then return foo else return bar 01:55:37 <pikka2> not terribly difficult drac 01:55:40 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.67.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:55:47 <pikka2> indeed peter 01:55:52 <peter1138> nice and predictable 01:56:07 <peter1138> not like trying to make triggers work in callbacks eh 01:56:12 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.75.128] has joined #openttd 01:56:20 <pikka2> :) 01:57:13 <drac_boy> thanks pikka2 I was just kinda thinking about some of these real locomotives I wanted to more or less loosely replicate 01:57:38 <drac_boy> especially switzerland's few diesel/electric passenger locomotives 01:58:01 <drac_boy> for now I'm just sticking to the simple one-railtype locomotives but maybe I'll figure that out hopefully 01:58:26 <pikka2> drac, imo what you should do is code one to begin with, then you have a template 01:59:26 <drac_boy> yeah thats quite true :) 02:00:45 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.78.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:01:15 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.75.229] has joined #openttd 02:01:30 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-233.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: other examples include the dutch set's multi-voltage engiens and the french NG set's rack rail engines 02:02:16 <drac_boy> oh didn't know dutch had that too 02:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it gets tricky when you don't know which trackset is loaded 02:03:59 <drac_boy> yeah nothing like electric locomotive running on standard tracks..just like the original locos did :) 02:06:15 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.75.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:06:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.77.19] has joined #openttd 02:10:21 <peter1138> zbase signals are... 02:10:23 <peter1138> ... 02:10:23 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.77.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:20 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.75.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:11:24 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.74.62] has joined #openttd 02:13:01 <pikka2> are they? 02:13:50 <peter1138> they're huge 02:14:36 <peter1138> zbase + ukrs + finescale 02:14:38 <peter1138> funny stuff 02:15:14 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.174] has joined #openttd 02:18:23 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: I'm done being in this room!] 02:19:55 <pikka2> Finescale signals are tiny 02:20:30 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.74.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:41 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.70.249] has joined #openttd 02:20:47 <peter1138> not when you've got extra zoom levels on 02:25:45 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.69.125] has joined #openttd 02:25:50 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:29:10 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:30:58 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:31:15 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.70.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:32:33 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.70.119] has joined #openttd 02:37:19 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.69.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 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timeout: 480 seconds] 03:26:18 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.85] has joined #openttd 03:28:50 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 03:30:58 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.71.85] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:06 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.69.98] has joined #openttd 03:31:15 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:33:55 <Flygon> I remember when this room was active D: 03:36:17 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.35] has joined #openttd 03:41:09 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.69.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:41:33 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.79.134] has joined #openttd 03:46:09 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.78.227] has joined #openttd 03:46:20 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:51:35 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.79.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:51:40 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.64.65] has joined #openttd 03:56:45 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.78.227] has quit 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KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.64.152] has joined #openttd 04:38:50 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.67.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:43:35 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:00:27 *** Elysium [~Elysium@c-71-239-153-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:50:09 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:50:41 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67829.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4479.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:10:30 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:47 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:28:08 <Supercheese> http://gizmodo.com/aeros/ 06:28:25 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:28:35 <Supercheese> I need some sprites, I want to code a .grf with that 06:52:36 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 06:55:13 <peter1138> hm 06:58:08 <peter1138> yet another wacko company 06:58:34 <peter1138> every few years there's a new one with this great idea to make airships 07:46:26 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:52:40 <Terkhen> good morning 07:57:54 <Pikka> moin Terkhen 07:59:05 <peter1138> yes 07:59:17 <Pikka> no 08:00:17 <peter1138> why 08:00:23 <Pikka> why not? 08:06:55 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:14:10 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-106-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:15:56 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:16:29 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:19:56 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 08:26:28 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.64.152] has joined #openttd 08:26:28 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.64.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30:00 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:46:02 <peter1138> Pikka, code some stations so i can test RA2s 08:46:07 <peter1138> cos nobody else can do it right : 08:46:08 <peter1138> :S 08:47:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1926D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:53:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:53:51 <peter1138> hmm 08:53:54 <peter1138> otoh 08:54:20 <planetmaker> moin 08:54:36 <peter1138> Pikka, the Freightliner has a RA2 inside a callback! 08:56:31 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:57:14 <peter1138> slight problem with the dummy RA2 idea :-( 08:58:55 <Flygon> http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/train-commuters-face-evening-delays-20130104-2c8pr.html Only in Australia would fast commuter trains be limited to 80km/h 09:03:35 <peter1138> peak hour, 24 passengers 09:03:39 <peter1138> i wish 09:03:52 <Flygon> peter1138: It was probably heading TOWARDS the city 09:04:13 <Flygon> Outbound trains tend to be packed quite bad 09:12:39 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:16:41 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-235-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:22:50 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:29:45 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-107-31.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 09:32:11 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:34:14 <dihedral> greetings 09:35:30 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.64.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:35:38 <peter1138> seasons! 09:44:01 <peter1138> hmm, extend_vehicle_life isn't available in advanced settings 09:47:13 <Flygon> peter1138: I'm just sad it'll probably end up scrapped, despite being barely damaged... it's almost 40 years old. Metro hates Hitachi trains. :( 09:48:21 <Flygon> Also, Seasons 09:48:30 <Flygon> A feature I wsh OpenTTD had :p 09:51:14 <Pikka> does it 09:51:42 <planetmaker> it does 09:51:58 <Pikka> it's just the recolour though 09:52:15 <Pikka> doesn't do anything desyncy or anything 09:52:31 <planetmaker> seasons in openttd? it's more than that, if you look at variable snow line 09:57:06 <peter1138> Pikka, it means it never gets triggered 09:57:24 <Pikka> yep 09:57:48 <peter1138> so it's never rerandomised 09:58:14 <Pikka> yep 09:58:34 <peter1138> so setting 02 as the trigger bit is confusing :p 09:58:51 <Pikka> well 09:59:01 <Pikka> it was meant to get rerandomised 09:59:12 <Pikka> but it doesn't work, and I was eh, whatever. 09:59:37 <peter1138> http://internetkhole.blogspot.co.uk/ <-- imgur of the 60-90s (warning, a very few images are very NSFW) 10:00:07 <peter1138> Pikka, is that one of those things where you could spend an hour fixing it 10:00:14 <peter1138> and then decide, meh, looks crap anyway 10:00:15 <Flygon> Oh wow, check out those chicks! 10:00:19 <Flygon> Dem feathers 10:01:06 <Pikka> it wouldn't look crap, it would just load different coloured containers each time 10:01:20 <Pikka> is it even fixable? :) 10:05:09 <Pikka> if I put the randomisation before the callback check? 10:06:58 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> synthon.oftc.net quits: Guest2346, bb10X, mikegrb, heffer, xQR, Rubidium, __ln__, ^Spike^, Supercheese, @orudge, (+12 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 10:09:12 *** Netsplit over, joins: @orudge, lobster, Supercheese, dihedral, TheMask96, Kurimus, TrueBrain, Cybertinus, lucaspiller_, @DorpsGek (+12 more) 10:10:01 <Supercheese> Night all 10:10:09 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 10:11:37 <peter1138> Pikka, ish 10:11:45 <peter1138> Pikka, btw i think you'd want trigger 01, not 02 10:12:06 <Pikka> perhaps 10:12:24 <Pikka> I generally do 10:12:37 <peter1138> i.e. it changes when new cargo is put on 10:12:47 <peter1138> otherwise it randomly changes when it goes in a depot 10:13:04 <Pikka> oh, that's a thing 10:13:16 <peter1138> hmm? 10:13:18 <Pikka> colour mapping is cached 10:13:21 <SpComb> "The peak-hour train, carrying 24 passengers, derailed after the tracks buckled due to the heat." 10:13:28 <SpComb> here in Finland, we have to heat our tracks :p 10:13:37 <Pikka> if it changed on loading, it wouldn't actually change until the train turned around 10:14:11 <peter1138> that's fine 10:14:35 <Pikka> is it? 10:15:11 <peter1138> the cache is updated in the trigger 10:15:19 <Pikka> hmm 10:15:21 <peter1138> so it works 10:15:39 <Pikka> well, perhaps I'll fix it 10:15:41 <Pikka> some time :) 10:16:40 <peter1138> 4250 * 39,..... 02 00 11 80 01 00 10 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 11 10:16:43 <peter1138> ,....... 00 11 00 11 00 11 00 10:16:44 <peter1138> i added that line 10:16:56 <peter1138> after the line with the existing randomaction2 10:17:36 <peter1138> so it's inserted into the chain you used and always continues that chain 10:17:48 <peter1138> also changed the trigger in both from 02 to 01 10:18:05 <peter1138> now 10:18:07 <Pikka> looks suspiciously like one I already have in there but is commented out :) 10:18:16 <peter1138> just noticed 10:18:18 <peter1138> it's not working 10:18:19 <peter1138> hmm 10:18:28 <Pikka> that particular part you're looking at 10:18:38 <peter1138> or is it 10:18:40 <Pikka> is for "real coloured freightliners" 10:18:50 <Pikka> not for the company coloured versions 10:19:06 <peter1138> ok 10:19:20 <Pikka> try setting the parameter and see if it works 10:19:27 <peter1138> so company coloured freightliners already randomise? 10:19:45 <Pikka> they probably don't rerandomise 10:19:58 <peter1138> they do 10:20:03 <peter1138> at least, with the line i added, heh 10:20:43 <peter1138> hmm, bum 10:20:47 <peter1138> actually you're right 10:20:55 <peter1138> the colours don't change unless it's reversed 10:20:56 <Pikka> :) 10:21:06 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-077-228.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:21:17 <Pikka> that would be why I commented out the similar line in the first place 10:21:27 <peter1138> yay, love nfo 10:22:23 <Pikka> well, I'm pushing the spec a lot by using recolour sprites the way I do 10:22:26 <peter1138> The return value is cached to speed up sprite processing, and only updated via callback 32 bit 1 (or when loading/starting a game or rearranging the consist). 10:22:32 <peter1138> well i could extend that 10:22:35 <Pikka> the way the grf is at the moment is fine 10:22:50 <Pikka> no-one notices that their freightliners load the same coloured containers every time :) 10:23:14 <Pikka> especially since they're not always exactly the same, because the container patterns (white/grey/cc/2cc) /are/ randomised 10:30:56 <peter1138> ouch 10:31:18 <peter1138> reversing a partially loading freightliner changes the container position :p 10:31:46 <Pikka> :) 10:34:21 <Pikka> does it? 10:35:22 <Pikka> oh 10:36:01 <Pikka> on the middle cars, because the middle cars are actually only 4-directional? 10:36:05 <Pikka> laziness :) 10:36:26 <peter1138> he 10:37:19 <Pikka> anyway, they work well enough. maybe I'll improve them one day when I have nothing better to do ;) 10:37:50 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:37:53 <Pikka> perhaps they don't rerandomise... eh 10:39:16 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:42:22 <peter1138> nope, only with the line i added 10:42:26 <peter1138> so it affects both 10:42:29 <Pikka> :) 10:42:55 <Pikka> there you go, then 10:43:15 <Pikka> if you want to make it so it refreshes the colour on trigger, I'll think about changing it for the next version 10:43:22 <Pikka> but right now, it is a goodnighttimes 10:43:32 <Pikka> toodle pip 10:43:41 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-50-91.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:43:47 <V453000> doom is coming https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/animalz2.png onwards to the steakhouse! 10:44:58 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 10:45:00 <drac_boy> hi 10:45:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:45:16 <Wolf01> moin 10:45:55 * Flygon crushes drac_boy up, blends, and uses in an oil fired steam locomotive. He's lacking in coal fired locomotives :B, "Heya drac_boy" 10:45:59 <Flygon> Also, menta Wolf01 10:47:04 * drac_boy stuffs flygon into a dual stroker equipped locomotive's tender to be cut up by the two augers :P 10:47:22 <Flygon> Yay 10:52:31 *** Devroush [~dennis@109.143.220.137] has joined #openttd 10:55:34 <MINM> ...why are there creepers on that train D: 10:55:44 <MINM> Also 10:55:53 <MINM> why don't we make toyland into mineland. 10:56:15 *** Devroush36 [~dennis@109.143.220.137] has joined #openttd 10:56:21 *** Devroush36 [~dennis@109.143.220.137] has quit [] 10:56:25 <MINM> toyland disaster: creeper blows bus up 10:59:09 <drac_boy> heh 10:59:19 <peter1138> V453000, who made that? 10:59:38 <peter1138> or rather what is it? heh 11:00:35 *** Devroush [~dennis@109.143.220.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:01:10 <V453000> peter1138: guess who ... :) and it is livestock :) 11:01:46 <peter1138> nice 11:02:06 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009fe3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:22 <Flygon> If we get a Minecraft overhaul, we're getting a Pokemon overhaul @_@ 11:09:27 <Flygon> LAPRAS FREIGHT 11:10:12 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:18 <peter1138> V453000, is each... box... one item? 11:12:27 <V453000> nah 11:12:41 <V453000> I think it is 14 per box 11:13:34 <peter1138> any plans for other MC references? :p 11:20:16 <V453000> the whole train class is a bit inspired by having everything "box-like" 11:20:22 <V453000> other than that probably not :) I am not a mc player myself 11:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so references so far: nyan, mincraft, ...? 11:31:36 <V453000> nyan cat was removed 11:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> ooh :/ 11:32:08 <peter1138> aww 11:32:09 <V453000> and one creeper among livestock isnt that much of a strong reference :) 11:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> a reference is a reference is a reference 11:33:39 <peter1138> is it a weak reference? 11:33:46 <peter1138> likely to be garbage collected... 11:35:25 <V453000> well yeah but by being like 1:1000 probability that you get a creeper for livestock is a lot "weaker" than purchasing a whole network of cat trains ;) 11:38:24 <frosch123> is there also a hydralisk cargo? 11:41:28 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:53:58 <V453000> that would be hard as hell to make it obvious it is a hydralisk frosch123 :D 11:54:09 <V453000> lets say not YET 11:59:32 <V453000> lol I just put my monitor the short side down, so many lines :D 12:12:12 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-233.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:32:08 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 13:00:17 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:18:33 <peter1138> I thought I have listed all possibilities... 13:18:36 <peter1138> ^ lol 13:19:17 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed :p 13:21:46 <V453000> :) 13:24:20 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 13:26:50 <peter1138> r19517 13:26:54 <peter1138> my roadtypes patch :S 13:27:29 <peter1138> can't find file to patch at input line 737 13:27:31 <peter1138> good stuff 13:34:19 <Belugas> hello 13:37:57 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 13:57:35 <peter1138> just as well really, this is crap 14:05:34 <peter1138> Belugas, hi :D 14:26:33 <Belugas> hello my sweet peter1138 :) love to see you having fun with coding ;) 14:34:57 <peter1138> aye 14:44:03 * Belugas is ordering some more cables for some cool routing. got a drum sequencer for tablet too, just need to learn how to use it 14:44:14 <peter1138> okay 14:44:28 <peter1138> apparently converting a load of function signatures to use bool 14:44:37 <peter1138> does not cause a compile failure, nor warning 14:45:09 <peter1138> Belugas, yeah, that was a bit different with the drums the other day 15:12:40 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:33:58 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:51:40 <peter1138> quiet here today 15:51:49 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> /quit here today 15:55:54 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-106-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-106-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:00:58 *** MINM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:29 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 16:14:53 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 16:26:36 <Belugas> fact is, i really liked those drums sets 16:33:26 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:39:40 <Belugas> it made a fresh feeling 16:39:49 <Belugas> no... i am not busy at all :S 16:42:46 <peter1138> no?> 16:53:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:59:22 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 16:59:28 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-70-130.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:04:22 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:39 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:05:50 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:11:55 <supermop> hi 17:12:19 <drac_boy> hi supermop 17:17:45 <FLHerne> ho 17:37:10 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 17:46:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1926D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:48:10 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:53:04 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:44 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:55:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:56:31 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 17:57:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:58:06 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:58:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BEDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:01:30 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:01:58 <andythenorth> lo 18:03:10 *** Dr_Tan [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:03:19 <peter1138> andythenorth, yes 18:03:56 <FLHerne> andythenorth: ol 18:04:07 <andythenorth> mp 18:04:13 <andythenorth> hmm 18:04:18 <andythenorth> what if I ROT 13 it? 18:04:35 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:05:36 <Pinkbeast> Ohg gung gevpx arire jbexf! 18:08:30 <andythenorth> @seen pokka 18:08:30 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pokka was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 8 hours, 49 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <Pokka> no, it doesn't mean anything, Supercheese 18:09:10 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 18:15:00 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:15:03 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:18:28 <andythenorth> lo Alberth 18:18:44 <Alberth> lo andy 18:19:50 <andythenorth> lego fans are such losers 18:19:51 <andythenorth> nvm 18:22:07 <Alberth> you stopped building legos? 18:22:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-106-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:43 <andythenorth> nope 18:24:56 <andythenorth> just arguing with people on forums 18:26:35 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 18:27:01 <Alberth> oh, it is safe to ignore that 18:27:23 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 18:27:47 <Pinkbeast> Is there any fandom such that there aren't annoying people to argue with on Web forums? 18:27:53 <Pinkbeast> Other than the Amish, I guess. 18:29:10 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:30:09 <andythenorth> mostly TTD 18:33:45 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [] 18:38:10 <peter1138> andythenorth 18:38:16 <andythenorth> that's me 18:38:17 <andythenorth> hi 18:38:36 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/chips.diff 18:38:46 <peter1138> (or something) 18:38:59 <peter1138> hg import maybe 18:39:00 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.175.97] has joined #openttd 18:40:21 <andythenorth> ooh 18:40:26 <andythenorth> not broken for maglev :) 18:40:42 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 18:45:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24886 /trunk/src/lang (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-01-04 18:45:30 UTC) 18:45:43 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:44 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 20 changes by xiangyigao 18:45:45 <DorpsGek> greek - 49 changes by Evropi 18:45:46 <DorpsGek> icelandic - 131 changes by Stimrol 18:45:47 <DorpsGek> indonesian - 11 changes by H2 18:45:48 <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093 18:45:49 <DorpsGek> tamil - 4 changes by aswn 18:47:04 <andythenorth> not broken for standard rails. Not broken for railtypes 18:47:49 <andythenorth> not broken for canset narrow gauge :o 18:54:10 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:56:32 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:04:30 <andythenorth> peter1138 I thinks you fixed it 19:13:01 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:15 <andythenorth> maybe I commit 19:22:50 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:23:47 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-233.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:24:47 *** burtybob [5add219b@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:25:33 <burtybob> With autorenew enabled does that send vehicles to the depot to be renewed or does the renew happen when the vehicle goes for a service based on it's "service interval"? 19:25:47 <peter1138> when it goes for service i believe 19:26:20 <peter1138> i seem to recall that most cases of "autorenew doesn't work" are down to servicing being disabled 19:26:41 <frosch123> it enables servicing 19:27:00 <frosch123> but pbs makes finding a depot harder sometimes 19:27:05 <peter1138> oh 19:27:15 <peter1138> god this is shit :p 19:27:32 <peter1138> so many special cases for trams, heh 19:27:43 <burtybob> So it sends the vehicle to the depot regardless of service interval? 19:27:57 *** oRuin [~oRuin@www.nowhere-else.org] has joined #openttd 19:30:07 <frosch123> ah wait, i think it depends on how servicing is disabled 19:30:18 <frosch123> if it is only disabled due to breakdowns disabled, it is enabled 19:30:32 <frosch123> but if you set the service interval to zero or something like that, it cannot enable it 19:30:59 <frosch123> autoreplace/renew triggers "service needed" 19:31:12 <frosch123> when the servicing happens and such is the same as for any other service type 19:31:45 <frosch123> so, autoreplace respects the service interval, it does not shorten it 19:34:12 <burtybob> Cheers :D 19:34:17 *** burtybob [5add219b@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:34:44 <oRuin> Hey :) I was wondering if someone could help me with my problem, its concerning my dedicated server and newgrfs. I'ts the last post on this thread http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=63765 19:35:48 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:36:01 <Terkhen> oRuin: dedicated servers cannot host NewGRF downloads; the "download missing NewGRFs" option refers to downloading them from OpenTTD's online content 19:36:33 <oRuin> ok, so how do I use newgrfs on my server? 19:36:33 <Terkhen> if they cannot download them, that means that you are using a NewGRF that is not available in OpenTTD's online content 19:36:56 <Terkhen> either limit your game to NewGRFs available there or tell your players how to adquire the missing NewGRFs manually 19:36:57 <oRuin> hmm, all of them are available 19:37:31 <oRuin> how do i limit my game, sorry im confused 19:38:25 <Terkhen> oRuin: make sure that all of the NewGRFs you are using are listed here: http://bananas.openttd.org/en/newgrf/ 19:38:41 <oRuin> they are 19:38:59 <oRuin> and where do i place them on my server? 19:39:17 <oRuin> currently I have them in content_download/newgrfs 19:40:19 <Terkhen> content_downloads is for NewGRFs downloaded by the game itself, just place them in the newgrf subfolder 19:40:47 <oRuin> yeh tried in there 19:41:08 <oRuin> my brother still does not get 'missing content' when he joins the server 19:41:12 <Terkhen> but if your clients are the ones who cannot connect because of missing NewGRFs, that means that the server found them and that the game is already created 19:41:37 <peter1138> are the grfs still listed in the config? 19:41:41 <oRuin> yes 19:41:47 <peter1138> it may wipe them out if it didn't find them the first time 19:41:51 <oRuin> the cfg is from my client 19:42:01 <oRuin> i set it up locally 19:42:09 <oRuin> then copied to newgrfs and the config over 19:42:34 <andythenorth> peter1138: trams have magic crap for corners, and getting stuck and all kinds of stuff iirc :P 19:42:36 <oRuin> been trying to work this out for days, it's just not working 19:43:03 <andythenorth> erp, maybe tram tiles should be a state machine, Eddi|zuHause would like that :) 19:43:19 <andythenorth> or a specific 'guided' vehicle type :P 19:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> now you're just throwing up stuff :p 19:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and technically, road curves already have a (simple) statemachine 19:44:10 <andythenorth> heh 19:44:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and trams just reuse the road stuff, except for overtaking and reversing 19:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> so, autoreplace respects the service interval, it does not shorten it <-- last time i checked, it seemed to work for autoreplace, but not for autorenew 19:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> causing it to constantly bother you with "vehicle gets old" messages, which you can't disable individually afair, only "all vehicle messages" 19:47:44 <Terkhen> oRuin: the problem is that other clients get a "missing NewGRFs" message when they try to connect to your server, right? 19:47:56 <oRuin> nope 19:48:13 <oRuin> the problem is, my server is not using any newgrfs i want it to use 19:48:37 <oRuin> i have the newgrf .tars in the newgrf subfolder 19:48:37 <frosch123> how did you configure the grfs on the server? 19:48:59 <oRuin> my config file (that i created locally) has them listed 19:49:08 <frosch123> if you copied openttd.cfg from win to linux, it might be a / \ issue in the paths 19:49:15 <oRuin> ok 19:49:24 <frosch123> does the server complain about invalid filename in the config? 19:49:27 <oRuin> thats what my brother just mentioned, 1 moment 19:49:40 <oRuin> nope 19:53:07 <peter1138> andythenorth, more than that 19:53:17 <peter1138> special cases for towns, bridges, level crossings, etc, etc, 19:53:35 <Terkhen> oRuin: create a savegame in a client that uses those NewGRFs and load it in the dedicated server, that way you will be able to see if the server found the NewGRFs or not 19:53:50 <andythenorth> urgh, I tried to fix crossings once, for about 4 days :P 19:53:59 <andythenorth> tram crossings use that silly road sprite 19:54:38 <oRuin> great stuff 19:54:41 <oRuin> working :) 19:54:53 <oRuin> was just the / \ issue! 19:54:57 <oRuin> thanks very much for your time guys 19:56:55 <Terkhen> yw 19:56:55 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08f89e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:57:28 *** oRuin [~oRuin@www.nowhere-else.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> tram crossings use that silly road sprite <- this is easy to solve for three-layers or one-layers version of roadtypes, but with two layers it's difficult because the map-space for the second layer is occupied by the railtype 20:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause> in the one-layer-version you just have enough space, and in the three-layer-version you just sacrifice one layer 20:11:24 <peter1138> what? 20:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: you currently can't have a rail/tram crossing, it will always force the road to be present 20:12:20 <peter1138> yup 20:12:43 <andythenorth> it's solvable, it just looks terrible 20:12:48 <andythenorth> due to monorail 20:12:52 <andythenorth> where's my screenshots :P 20:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well if the graphics are the problem, then you just need to provide proper underlay/overlay sprites 20:14:07 <andythenorth> iirc, that's not possible, due to the way railtypes are implemented 20:14:14 <andythenorth> from half-memory only though 20:14:40 <peter1138> no 20:14:55 <peter1138> with newgrf railtypes it's easypeasy to have a tram-only level crossing 20:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the drawing order could be something like: ground, rail underlay, tram underlay, [road], tram overlay, rail overlay, [...] 20:15:15 <peter1138> pre-railtypes it wasn't, and that's why you can't 20:15:30 <andythenorth> the issue is literally that monorail + tram tracks makes no sense :P 20:15:46 <peter1138> andythenorth, that's not an issue at all 20:15:54 <Eddi|zuHause> monorail crossings make no sense in general 20:15:54 <andythenorth> I can haz some screen shots, I'm looking 20:15:58 <peter1138> monorail/maglev + road never made sense 20:16:00 <andythenorth> you don't want all 10 though :P 20:17:40 <andythenorth> I have the patch...somewhere :P http://www.tt-foundry.com/misc/road-rail-crossing-10.png 20:18:27 <andythenorth> distractions 20:18:36 <peter1138> i don't really care about the detail of how it'll look at the moment 20:18:53 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-106.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 20:20:21 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the currently floating around proposals were "one layer for everything, road/tram-combinations encoded in roadtype", "two layers, one tram-only and one road-only", and "two or three layers, free combination" 20:20:22 <FLHerne> Query: Is there a reason that NewObjects can optionally have bridges built over them, but not stations? 20:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: yes. 20:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: station specs are older than object specs 20:21:06 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Correction: What is the reason that... 20:21:27 <FLHerne> Aw. Can we have new station specs? :P 20:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you can, but it won't work with existing station grfs 20:22:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the coding effort wouldn't be that large 20:22:08 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-107-31.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:28 <FLHerne> Yet another reason for me to learn more C++, then :-/ 20:22:51 <andythenorth> do NewObjects reliably set a height for the sprites? 20:22:56 <andythenorth> without lying? 20:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you need a property for stations defining the minimum bridge height (or "no bridge"), similar to objects, and you need the bridge building code to allow station tiles underneath (make sure the bits are free in the map) 20:23:18 <peter1138> didn't we already discuss this? 20:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> something in the order of 20 loc, i'd expect, so 2 hours of coding :) 20:23:52 <andythenorth> yes 20:24:12 <andythenorth> peter1138: endlessly I think :) 20:24:30 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, it's a bit more than that 20:24:33 <andythenorth> I might go and count up how many black birds are in a pie or something 20:25:06 <peter1138> 27 loc 20:25:13 <peter1138> anywa 20:25:26 <andythenorth> maybe I add a dock industry to FIRS 20:25:35 <peter1138> it was written years ago, it's never been added because of sprite sorting issues 20:26:39 <andythenorth> teyjeyvey http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=5721464 20:27:38 <peter1138> they don't use powered track any more? 20:27:51 <andythenorth> narp 20:27:54 <andythenorth> batteries 20:28:00 <andythenorth> some AHOLs whine about that 20:28:11 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/stbr2.png 20:28:15 <andythenorth> but meanwhile! No shorts due to connecting wrong! 20:28:19 <andythenorth> no dead sections! 20:28:21 <andythenorth> no power drop! 20:29:13 <andythenorth> station bridges :) 20:30:02 <peter1138> May 2007, btw 20:30:46 <andythenorth> I haven't missed them much in those 6 years ;) 20:31:04 <andythenorth> something road-y might be more interesting for gamplay 20:31:55 *** Chrill [Chrill@h-91-232.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:32:00 <peter1138> bridges over roadstops? 20:32:26 <FLHerne> peter1138: Nice picture. Can have? :P 20:32:44 <andythenorth> what? 20:32:50 <FLHerne> If it glitches in some cases, we could just not build bridges in that case :P 20:32:59 <andythenorth> you want the picture he posted to demonstrate the issues with the sprite sorter? 20:33:02 <peter1138> it glitches in all cases 20:33:03 <andythenorth> download it :P 20:34:23 * FLHerne needs to work on making contracted sentences comprehensible (or just not writing them) 20:34:29 <andythenorth> I'm going to commit that CHIPS thing 20:34:36 <andythenorth> as I have found no further breakage in the last hour 20:34:38 <FLHerne> peter1138: Ah well. It isn't that obvious :P 20:34:48 <andythenorth> mind, OpenTTD has not been running for the last hour :P 20:34:55 <andythenorth> "high quality software ftw" 20:35:42 <andythenorth> peter1138: yexo might be interested in what / how you fixed it 20:35:54 <andythenorth> I am way too lazzy to read the diffs ;) 20:35:54 <peter1138> check the export :p 20:35:58 <peter1138> lol 20:36:03 <peter1138> first part is reverting r223 20:36:10 <andythenorth> he 20:36:17 <peter1138> second part is setting temp[0] to 0 20:36:26 <peter1138> for every single chain where it's needed 20:36:50 <peter1138> personally i consider it a slight flaw in the spec, but never mind 20:36:58 <peter1138> it was made to do something hard 20:37:14 <peter1138> and so something that could be simple is hard as well :p 20:37:34 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:37:38 <drac_boy> hi 20:37:40 <andythenorth> hrm 20:37:53 <andythenorth> I applied that export just with patch, that expected to work? (wfm) 20:38:01 <drac_boy> you making any progress on anything yet andythenorth? I just had to ask mind you 20:38:15 <andythenorth> yes, I am fixing CHIPS 20:38:20 <andythenorth> you should see the big patch I have 20:38:34 <peter1138> andythenorth, might, put hg import might do it better, i dunno 20:38:47 <peter1138> not really much of an hg user 20:38:56 <andythenorth> me neither :P 20:39:12 <drac_boy> heh ok I wouldn't ask about it then :) 20:39:34 <peter1138> you can do it all as one 20:39:58 <peter1138> but having the backout separate makes it tidier 20:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hg import will (or should) automatically make 2 commits out of it, and possibly preserve the author of the commit 20:42:51 *** Chrill [Chrill@h-91-232.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:25 <andythenorth> imported 20:43:27 <andythenorth> pushed 20:54:35 <andythenorth> bananed 20:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds evil :p 20:56:40 <andythenorth> forumised 20:58:08 <Alberth> bananad might be better :) 20:58:55 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:59:02 <Eddi|zuHause> what does the banana-daemon do? 20:59:40 <andythenorth> it takes away alberths 21:09:56 <drac_boy> heh :) 21:18:40 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-50-91.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:19:06 <andythenorth> pokka! 21:19:14 <Pikka> isn't it madam! 21:19:21 <Pikka> supanandy 21:19:46 <andythenorth> peterer fixed my station blahs 21:19:54 <Pikka> hooray! 21:20:03 <andythenorth> now you can station walk, even maglevs 21:20:10 <andythenorth> to your heart's desire 21:20:14 <Pikka> :] 21:20:17 <Pikka> also! 21:20:22 <andythenorth> so there is good in the world 21:20:27 <Pikka> blah to people who want separate tram tracks! 21:20:34 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:20:47 <peter1138> wut 21:20:49 <Pikka> trams are definitely in the "it seemed like a good idea at the time" category 21:20:59 <Pikka> along with regearing cargos :D 21:21:18 <peter1138> i disliked trams from the start 21:21:23 <peter1138> they're just smallish trains :p 21:21:38 <Pikka> some of them 21:21:55 <andythenorth> yay 21:21:59 <andythenorth> no silly signals 21:22:14 <andythenorth> trains driving through each other! 21:22:24 <andythenorth> they're almost as good as ships :P 21:22:27 <Pikka> D: 21:22:37 <Pikka> anyway, down with trams, up with roadtypes 21:22:40 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:22:45 <Pikka> including roadtypes with tram tracks 21:23:06 <Pikka> but not including trams as a separate layer! 21:23:19 <andythenorth> is that even controversial? 21:23:24 <Pikka> yes 21:23:26 <andythenorth> eh? 21:23:29 <andythenorth> JFDI 21:23:32 <Pikka> everyone wants to keep trams as a separate layer 21:23:40 <andythenorth> because...? 21:23:44 <andythenorth> they're halfwits? 21:23:52 <Pikka> so tram tracks can have a different owner from the road 21:23:53 <andythenorth> they're strange foamers? 21:23:54 <Pikka> for whatever reason 21:23:55 <andythenorth> oh that 21:24:00 <andythenorth> gameplay and crap :P 21:24:17 <andythenorth> so I don't have to build bridges over your road 21:24:19 <andythenorth> herp 21:24:28 <Pikka> you don't have to build bridges over my road 21:24:40 <Pikka> you just have to accept that one tile of your tram line will be owned by me 21:24:52 <andythenorth> well then 21:24:54 <andythenorth> where's the issue 21:24:57 <andythenorth> silly pickles 21:24:57 <peter1138> not if you don't build it 21:25:27 <Pikka> peter: my proposed spec allows "upgrading" other people's roads without taking ownership 21:26:01 <Pikka> also people are getting hung up on crap like overhead monorails and fake subways 21:26:16 <Pikka> stop it at once, silly people 21:26:17 <andythenorth> overhead monorails are fucked anyway 21:26:21 <andythenorth> they can't pass through bridges 21:26:26 <andythenorth> fake subways blah 21:26:58 <drac_boy> pikka heh .. I really like trams .. just wish for non-wired versions .. but I do agree.. monorail/etc don't make sense in the current "flat tiles" geometry 21:27:08 <drac_boy> not to mention how do you even make a monorail road crossing? you don't! 21:27:24 <andythenorth> not even sure what I'd do with roadtypes 21:27:26 <andythenorth> but 21:27:28 <andythenorth> why not! 21:27:33 <Pikka> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=37964&start=40 21:28:15 <peter1138> dirt tracks for heqs 21:28:20 <andythenorth> ban trucks in town 21:28:24 <Pikka> oh, that's the other thing 21:28:28 <andythenorth> trams without weasels 21:28:32 <andythenorth> wires * 21:28:42 <peter1138> cobblestone roads in old towns 21:28:44 <Pikka> "if tram and road aren't separate layers, I can't use different grfs for road and tram tracks" 21:28:49 <Pikka> psh 21:28:52 <andythenorth> who gives a crap 21:28:54 <andythenorth> JFDI 21:28:58 <Pikka> FLHerne 21:29:03 <Pikka> apparently 21:29:03 <andythenorth> I can't even have smoke for ships 21:29:08 <andythenorth> is FLHerne coding it? 21:29:25 <FLHerne> ??? 21:29:38 <peter1138> anyway 21:29:45 <Pikka> bitching about roadtypes, FLHerne 21:29:50 <FLHerne> Ah, yes :P 21:30:01 * FLHerne hadn't looked at the history yet 21:30:34 * Pikka thinks maybe today is hoqvs day 21:30:46 <FLHerne> Different grfs for the road and for non-road types would be nice. 21:30:47 <andythenorth> is that some kind of giant dump-truck-bus thing? 21:30:56 <Pikka> yse 21:30:59 <andythenorth> a fricking pony would be nice too 21:31:04 <andythenorth> and ice cream on it 21:31:07 <FLHerne> Any sort of roadtypes would be nice, too :-) 21:31:12 <peter1138> you have 2 21:31:12 <andythenorth> correct answer 21:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <Pikka> you just have to accept that one tile of your tram line will be owned by me <-- you mean "you can't build tram tracks over my road, because there is no function that guarantees that all my vehicles can cross your new roadtype"? 21:31:20 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Would the pony like the icecream on it? 21:32:05 <FLHerne> My rat doesn't like having icecream on him at all, but that's entirely irrelevant to your point 21:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause> like, i could have busses that don't fit under tram catenary or something 21:32:09 <Pikka> yes there is, eddi. 21:32:25 <peter1138> and yet they fit under bridges? :p 21:32:43 <Pikka> have you ever tried connecting, say, 3rd rail electrified track to overhead electrified track in current versions of openttd? 21:33:05 <drac_boy> pikka...nutracks already does that? 21:33:08 <FLHerne> peter1138: If the catenary fits under bridges, it must be (slightly) lower than them :P 21:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: have you ever tried to connect third rail to electric _of another player_? 21:33:20 <FLHerne> And yes, I know it isn't actually drawn under bridges 21:33:33 <FLHerne> (or is that just rails catenary?) 21:33:36 <Pikka> "another player" is irrelevent 21:33:56 <Pikka> if trains of the old railtype won't run on the new railtype, you can't build the tile 21:34:09 <Pikka> if rvs of the old roadtype won't run on the new roadtype, you can't build the tile 21:34:12 <Pikka> same thing 21:34:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: so now, you built this tram thing, but now you want to switch to trolleybus, but some tiles you can't remove the rails because they belong to another player, or you used up your town rating or somesuch 21:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and potentially trolley bus and tram cannot cross 21:35:29 <Eddi|zuHause> (because like the catenaries are incompatible or so) 21:35:42 <andythenorth> complain to the newgrf author 21:35:52 <Pikka> firstly, that sounds like a bad idea from a grf design point of view 21:36:06 <Pikka> secondly, at the moment I can remove my roads or tramtracks that have your vehicles on them 21:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it's "realistic" i'm sure ;) 21:36:31 <Pikka> I can block your roads with level crossings, I can do all sorts of things that aren't conducive to cooperative gameplay 21:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: yes, because you built the road/tram track 21:37:05 <Pikka> this doesn't make the situation significantly worse 21:37:19 <Pikka> and also, your "solution" to this problem only solves the problem wrt trams vs road vehicles 21:37:27 *** ArkRoyal [bcdeb2a4@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:38:02 <Pikka> do we need to make highways and dirt roads separate layers to prevent conflicts between highway and offroad vehicles? 21:38:54 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's just a matter of how to organize the compatibility half-order 21:39:05 <Pikka> treating trams as a special case is bad. any special cases are bad if we're designing an open-ended spec for people to do with as they wish. 21:39:11 <ArkRoyal> I don't know if I'm asking in the right place, but I was told to moot vague ideas in the IRC (which I think is here). Would there be any call for a bouys pack so that people could create realistic boyage in games? 21:39:16 <Eddi|zuHause> which isn't a half-order anyway because it's not transitive 21:39:49 <drac_boy> pikka I think the only reason trams had to be coded apart is because trams can't just simply "turn where they want to go down to" 21:39:54 <drac_boy> they have to follow a fixed route 21:39:58 <drac_boy> I could be wrong tho 21:40:09 <Pikka> the same goes for any vehicle which can only use certain roadtypes, drac_boy 21:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: there's the other spec proposal where you don't differentiate between tram-like and road-like, you just can free-form combine two (or three) roadtypes on one tile 21:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could have e.g. subway, road and elevated-monorail on the same tile 21:40:35 <FLHerne> ArkRoyal: 'bouys', 'boyage' (!), and the spec for that might not actually exist yet 21:40:45 <Eddi|zuHause> each with different owners and road layouts 21:40:59 <Pikka> that's a whole other order of thing, though eddi 21:41:01 <peter1138> bleh 21:41:13 <FLHerne> You could create NewObject buoys that overlapped the real ones, in the same way as Quast65's assorted stuff? 21:41:23 <peter1138> might as well delete all my roadtypes stuff 21:41:28 <drac_boy> pikka what I had actually meant was a bus could decide to turn left instead of go straight .. but a tram can't just do that 21:41:44 <Pikka> it can if there's tram tracks to the left, drac_boy 21:41:54 <Pikka> don't do that peter1138 21:41:55 <drac_boy> pikka and what if there isn't? 21:42:00 <Pikka> then it can't 21:42:09 <Pikka> and if there isn't road to the left, the bus can't turn left either 21:42:31 <andythenorth> herp, any roadtypes > 0 roadtypes 21:42:34 <drac_boy> well there is a road to left .. but no tram track there tho. but anyway .. I'll rather not drag into an arguement over needing trams to be seperated from road 21:42:41 <drac_boy> ;) 21:42:45 <Pikka> what if there's tram track but no road, drac_boy? 21:42:57 <ArkRoyal> oh hello FLH - presume you can guess who I actually am? Could a NewGRF pack be made to make them look right, as opposed to behave right? 21:43:00 <Pikka> and what about my B-triples which can only drive on highways and private roads? 21:43:01 <peter1138> on the next tile? 21:43:11 <ArkRoyal> presumably behaving right is more difficult? 21:43:31 * andythenorth figures that working code wins arguments 21:43:36 <Pikka> yes 21:43:37 <peter1138> talking about putting road bits down dynamically based on what's next to the tile? 21:43:42 <andythenorth> apache voting rules? :P 21:43:47 <peter1138> (cos that'd suck) 21:43:58 <andythenorth> peter1138 deletes his roadtypes patch, +/-1 ? 21:44:06 <drac_boy> heh andythenorth thats why I haven't talked much about some of my own things yet because I'll prefer to share a demostration grf first instead :) 21:44:06 * andythenorth -1 21:44:11 <Pikka> -6 21:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that would totally break with two parallel roads 21:44:20 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, quite 21:44:25 <Pikka> we're waiting eagerly for that day, drac_boy 21:44:25 <peter1138> so 21:44:27 <Eddi|zuHause> simcity had such problems 21:44:36 * andythenorth warn me when you'll talk more than you do, I'll get ear plugs :P 21:44:55 <peter1138> if you have only one type of road, and have 3 road types (road, tram, road + tram) 21:45:08 <peter1138> then if your road turns left, your tram will too 21:45:13 <Pikka> peter 21:45:24 <Pikka> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Some_Other_Road_Types_Definition 21:45:33 <Pikka> make a basic spec, leave making it look pretty to the grf :P 21:45:45 <peter1138> i'm not talking about looks 21:46:02 <drac_boy> eddi which simcity version? 21:46:12 <drac_boy> the 4000 one with controlable vehicles? 21:46:31 <Pikka> what are you talking about then? that trams will see little dead ends everywhere they can turn around in? 21:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: when i say simcity i mean of course simcity 21:46:41 <peter1138> Pikka, yes 21:46:46 <Eddi|zuHause> not simcity 4 21:46:52 <andythenorth> they won't just get stuck? Like they do now? o_O 21:46:57 <FLHerne> ArkRoyal: PM 21:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause> (there is no simcity 4000 anyway) 21:47:05 <peter1138> Pikka, natually if you only have one type of road on a tile, then you only have one set of road bits 21:47:10 <Pikka> perhaps that's a vehicle property 21:47:11 <drac_boy> eddi I don't recall classic simcity having different types 21:47:17 <drac_boy> unless there were two different editions of it 21:47:22 <Pikka> "can't turn around anywhere, ever" 21:47:24 <peter1138> and any vehicle that can go on that tile can use any of those bits 21:48:03 <Pikka> yes... so perhaps it's a vehicle thing, it needs to be told not to go into dead ends because it can't turn around? 21:48:04 <drac_boy> I only recall there being road and serves-any-tiles rail alone .. but simcity 2000 required stations for the rails .. at least it also added subways to that 21:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: no, but it had automatic crossing building, where you'd end up with crossings everywhere if you built two parallel roads 21:48:22 <drac_boy> oh 21:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i think they tried to handle that case in simcity3000, but it was not usable on special cases 21:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> then simcity4 came along where you had more like "road bits", which you altered by dragging in some direction 21:49:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but it still had cases where it broke 21:50:27 <Pikka> hah 21:50:33 <Pikka> it already works like that :D 21:50:44 <Pikka> peter1138, trams already don't try to turn around in stubs 21:50:50 <andythenorth> yes 21:50:58 <andythenorth> they just get stuck, like stupid dumbasses :P 21:51:02 <Pikka> nope 21:51:06 <andythenorth> but probably correctly 21:51:07 <Pikka> they don't even try 21:51:16 <andythenorth> I'm agreeing :P 21:51:28 <Pikka> no, they don't get stuck, andythenorth 21:51:40 <Pikka> they correctly continue past the stub and round the loop 21:51:45 <andythenorth> ah 21:51:48 <andythenorth> case of no loop? 21:51:53 <peter1138> yet more special-case code for trams 21:51:54 <andythenorth> I had that case in mind :P 21:51:54 <Pikka> even though turning around in the stub and going back the other way would get them there faster 21:51:57 <ArkRoyal> FLHerne: Had the same idea - just PM'd you 21:52:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you can't build a loop on a road if the road continues 21:52:20 <andythenorth> no 21:52:22 <FLHerne> ArkRoyal: Can you see my query? 21:52:31 <andythenorth> you have to demolish some building to build your loop 21:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (if you remove the tram layer) 21:52:48 <peter1138> fwiw 21:52:54 <andythenorth> rm trams 21:52:56 <Pikka> they go to the end of the track and get stuck 21:52:57 <andythenorth> they're dumb anyway 21:53:02 <andythenorth> no good newgrfs featuring them 21:53:09 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:53:11 <Pikka> hoqvs! 21:53:12 <peter1138> i'm in favour of 2 road types per tile 21:53:26 <drac_boy> actually I use HEQS virtually on all of my games 21:53:30 <drac_boy> especially railmotors 21:53:33 <peter1138> independent roadbits 21:53:43 <andythenorth> Pikka: http://www.flickr.com/photos/62532775@N03/6863540886/in/set-72157630441486724 21:53:52 <andythenorth> hoqvs! 21:53:53 <Pikka> it's too messy, peter1138 21:54:04 <peter1138> trams are messy 21:54:15 <andythenorth> someone's mum is too messy 21:54:17 <andythenorth> dunno whose 21:54:19 <peter1138> roadtypes would be a damn sight easier if they'd never been hacked in 21:54:24 <Pikka> I agree 21:54:26 <peter1138> (to ttdpatch, and copied to ottd) 21:54:32 <andythenorth> rm them 21:54:42 <andythenorth> I'll help :P 21:54:46 <Pikka> it's all stevenh and some other guy's fault! 21:54:47 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Do you mean those gmund-mog thingies? 21:54:47 <andythenorth> removing must be easier, right? 21:54:54 <peter1138> i think i'd be shot for removing savegame compatibility 21:54:56 <drac_boy> FLHerne no...the actual railmotor 21:55:03 <drac_boy> they're the shorter 2-axle light capacity things 21:55:12 <drac_boy> instead of the other one that hauls several small cars 21:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that may all be true, but that doesn't mean it would be easier now to remove them 21:55:24 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Oh, some kind of tram thing? 21:55:35 <drac_boy> FLHerne duh .. I take it you never looked up HEQS? :) 21:55:38 <drac_boy> just asking 21:55:42 * FLHerne hasn't played with the more recent HEQS yet 21:55:55 <andythenorth> oh you haven't lived 21:56:06 <andythenorth> he who is tired of HEQS is tired of liff 21:56:10 <FLHerne> drac_boy: I was thinking the rail version of 'Gmund-Mog' when you said 'railmotor' ;-) 21:56:23 <Pikka> andythenorth, with no loop they go as far as they can before they get stuck 21:56:29 <Pikka> seems like reasonable behaviour 21:56:37 <FLHerne> I don't think the version I have has an actual thing called 'railmotor' :P 21:56:48 <andythenorth> Pikka: definitely reasonable 21:56:53 <Pikka> so you can keep that as part of the "tram-like" flag behaviour 21:56:54 <drac_boy> FLHerne this is the older list but most of the trams are still there http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=152277 21:57:04 <Pikka> also, apply that flag to b-triples! 21:57:12 <drac_boy> the railmotor I refer to are the must shortest one as you may notice 21:57:13 <Pikka> so they're "tram like" but run on normal roads 21:57:24 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Oh, I see. Small trams :D 21:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> how about freeform combination of road layers (by michi_cc's coolstuff thingie), and each roadtype gets a "layertype", like "road", "tram", "underground", "elevated", ... [like "cargoclass"], and no two roadbits of the same direction may have the same class? 21:57:27 <Pikka> can't u-turn, get stuck if they hit a dead end :] 21:57:36 <peter1138> it would be possible to convert from independent road + tram to road/tram/roadtram types 21:57:42 <drac_boy> flherne I always end up with a hundred of various trams in just about any games seriously 21:57:44 <peter1138> if it wasn't for that pesky 2nd owner 21:57:44 <drac_boy> :) 21:57:47 * FLHerne could use them to deliver fruit into towns :D 21:58:08 <andythenorth> who's the second owner on a road + tram + rail crossing? 21:58:09 <andythenorth> :P 21:58:15 <andythenorth> out of interests 21:58:22 <peter1138> 3 owners 21:58:27 <peter1138> eyes 21:58:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could have a trail crossing a road, but they can't be along the same direction, because both would be in the "road" layer 21:58:53 <drac_boy> flherne the funny thing is I've been thinking about asking about a small patch to HEQS for two particular cargos of mine but .. we'll see ... would be easier than trying to make new tram sprites all over again :) 21:58:59 <FLHerne> andythenorth: And no, I haven't even got bored of the ancient HEQS version yet :P 21:59:04 <peter1138> there's space for 3 owners there cos you don't need roadbits 21:59:23 <andythenorth> herp 21:59:27 <andythenorth> roads are common carrier? 21:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> diagonal crossings! 21:59:28 <andythenorth> :P 21:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i have a patch for that :p 21:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> (modulo drawing) 21:59:48 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Diagonal roads, too, while you're at it? :P 21:59:50 <andythenorth> I tested it :P 21:59:54 <andythenorth> I could have drawn stuff 21:59:56 * FLHerne isn't serious 22:00:00 <andythenorth> good 22:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: those are unpossible 22:00:13 <andythenorth> all roads owned by deity? 22:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: like canals used to be? 22:00:31 <drac_boy> flherne I think one of the big problem was the pathfinder being broken at trying to "see" the 2-tiles crossing 22:00:47 <andythenorth> you want to modify a road, fill out a form, in triplicate 22:00:52 <drac_boy> I could be wrong tho but I thought thats what I noticed on the forum 22:00:53 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Just rewrite the entire game to deunpossibleise it :P 22:00:54 <andythenorth> deity will run consultation with other players 22:01:01 * FLHerne *really* isn't serious 22:01:07 <andythenorth> if players agree, road change is approved by deity planning committee :P 22:01:24 <FLHerne> ArkRoyal: PM 22:02:03 <Pikka> single owner, single layer roads ftw! :D 22:02:09 <andythenorth> :) 22:02:26 <Pikka> it's simple for both devs and players! 22:02:47 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-246-145.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 22:03:10 <Pikka> if some jerk is removing the tram tracks from the one tile of road he owns on your route, he sucks, stop playing with him! 22:03:27 <andythenorth> you mean like those idiots who bulldoze rivers? 22:03:31 <Pikka> (and it's not like people can't do similar things already, eg removing a piece of road and buying the tile) 22:03:33 <Pikka> exactly! 22:03:34 <andythenorth> and destory buses? 22:03:37 <Pikka> yes! 22:04:07 <Pikka> they were silly buses anyway :) 22:04:07 * andythenorth likes simple 22:04:08 <frosch123> what about the guy who builds tram on all your roads to make you pay maintenance? :p 22:04:10 <andythenorth> fits my brain 22:04:16 <Pikka> stop playing with him too, frosch123 22:04:16 <andythenorth> that guy is witty 22:04:23 <andythenorth> he is amusingly trolling you 22:04:30 <Pikka> yes 22:04:30 <andythenorth> trolling is funny 22:04:46 <andythenorth> there is an insufficiency of funny trolling in ttd 22:05:03 <andythenorth> the depot AI train killing bug was one of the funnier things in TTD 22:05:34 <Pikka> what about the guy who builds two truck stops near an industry you serve and just sends trucks back and forth between them, getting great station ratings and denying you any cargo? :) 22:05:49 <andythenorth> or leaves a boat at SpComb's iron mine? 22:06:51 <andythenorth> or takes over my company and builds 37 biplanes 22:06:55 <Pikka> :] 22:07:29 <andythenorth> what happened to my castle anyway? 22:07:33 <Pikka> and what about the 99.9% of openttd players who either play only single player, or play with no grfs? 22:07:33 <andythenorth> did I screenshot it? 22:07:40 <Pikka> I have various savegames 22:07:48 <Pikka> then we all updated our nightlies to play on the other server 22:07:48 <andythenorth> phew 22:07:53 <andythenorth> I failed to screenshot :( 22:08:09 <Pikka> the server was still up last night, 2011 or so 22:08:21 <Pikka> but I couldn't be bothered downgrading to connect :) 22:08:34 <peter1138> oh yeah 22:08:35 <andythenorth> herp 22:08:36 <peter1138> i should probably upgrade it 22:08:39 <andythenorth> huws winning? 22:08:44 <andythenorth> me! 22:08:45 <Pikka> scuddles 22:08:57 <andythenorth> and pikkarer 22:09:08 <andythenorth> scuddles is winning at losing 22:09:15 <andythenorth> oh 22:09:18 <andythenorth> my castle is gone :P 22:09:23 <andythenorth> must be the passage of time 22:09:27 <andythenorth> no castle lasts for ever 22:09:37 <peter1138> you removed it 22:09:39 <peter1138> so... 22:09:42 <andythenorth> who me? 22:09:46 <andythenorth> shocking accusation 22:10:52 <andythenorth> herp 22:11:06 <andythenorth> with roadtypes, I could have had better cannons 22:11:09 <andythenorth> moveable 22:11:36 <andythenorth> and barrage ballons on a tether 22:11:36 <Pikka> yes 22:12:18 <Pikka> pew pew 22:12:19 <andythenorth> who will whine if trams go? 22:12:29 <Pikka> nobody 22:12:33 <drac_boy> me because how do I move freights anymore? 22:12:48 <Terkhen> why do they need to go? :P 22:12:57 <andythenorth> because cleaning away things is cathartic 22:12:59 <andythenorth> and pleasing 22:13:05 <Pikka> heqs and egrvts will be updated to the new spec within a week 22:13:31 <andythenorth> the important people don't have tram sets, right? 22:13:59 <Pikka> openttd will ship with a basic tram+road roadtype and all tram tracks in old games will be magically converted or something! :D 22:14:09 <andythenorth> or exploded 22:14:14 <Pikka> or perhaps just convert all tram tracks to roads 22:14:24 <Pikka> since old trams won't have a roadtype, they'll run on normal roads just fine 22:14:34 <andythenorth> opening message: trams are now banned, thank you for travelling with us 22:15:00 <Pikka> afaia the requirement is that old savegames load, not that everything in old savegames still acts the same way? ;) 22:15:23 <FLHerne> Pikka: What happens to these kinds of construction with one roadtype layer? http://imgur.com/rCTld 22:15:41 <FLHerne> Especially the lower one is quite common in grid-like cities 22:15:52 <Pikka> the bits which are road are road 22:16:04 <andythenorth> 503 happens 22:16:05 <Pikka> the bits which are tramtrack + road are tramtrack&road 22:16:12 <Pikka> the bits which are just tramtrack are just tramtrack 22:16:19 <Pikka> I don't see the problem 22:16:27 <andythenorth> +1 22:16:54 <FLHerne> Pikka: So it ends up with extraneous tramtrack graphics where a straight tramtrack crosses a road junction? 22:17:04 <Pikka> no, it doesn't 22:17:09 <andythenorth> and the bits which could tramtrack+trails+road+christmaslights+animateddogwalkingtrail+plinkyplonk are all fine 22:17:13 <Pikka> but that's for the grf, not the spec 22:17:27 <Pikka> the spec provides the necessary vars for the grf to make junctions look pretty 22:17:30 <andythenorth> grf detects type on neighbouring tile, figures out what to do 22:17:41 <andythenorth> if you mix too many types, that's idiocy 22:17:42 <FLHerne> For example, if a straight tramtrack crosses a straight road at 90 degrees, it would display crossroad graphics for both road and rail? 22:17:46 <Pikka> also, if you're worried about pretty looking junctions 22:17:47 <andythenorth> no 22:17:48 <FLHerne> Ah, ninjad :P 22:17:55 <Pikka> why are you limiting your concern to tram tracks? 22:18:23 <andythenorth> also, since when did anything fun ever get done in OpenTTD by listening to players? 22:18:24 <Pikka> why not also be concerned about dirt tracks intersecting with highways? should there be a highway stub? 22:18:30 <FLHerne> Pikka: Because I have a *lot* of them in my current game (and no overhead monorails because the two can't coexist yet) :P 22:18:33 <andythenorth> it's not like there's a community approval process :P 22:18:44 <andythenorth> if we want that, I'll pay for fucking getsatisfaction 22:18:53 <andythenorth> or something 22:18:57 <FLHerne> Pikka: I'd worry about the dirt roads if my games had any in ;-) 22:19:16 <andythenorth> oops 22:19:19 <andythenorth> sweary, sorry 22:19:29 <FLHerne> Although actually, a highway stub would probably look more sensible there :P 22:20:06 <Pikka> FLHerne, and the reason your games don't have dirt roads is because some charlies are confusing the introduction of roadtypes by talking about crap like overhead monorails and subways 22:20:34 *** ArkRoyal [bcdeb2a4@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:20:41 <FLHerne> Pikka: Even without the overhead monorails, I still care about trams. Trams are sensible :P 22:20:56 <andythenorth> it's groundhog day 22:21:01 <Pikka> and like I said, there's no issue with trams, so next. 22:21:05 <andythenorth> which one of is doing the weather? 22:21:14 <Pikka> prince charles, andythenorth 22:21:16 <Terkhen> trams are confusing sometimes :P 22:21:36 <Pikka> single-owner single-layer roads will make them less confusing! 22:22:00 <andythenorth> Pikka: can I connect to your road+tram tile? 22:22:20 <Pikka> why not, andythenorth? 22:22:26 <andythenorth> and run my trams on your tiles? 22:22:32 <Pikka> of course you can 22:22:35 <Pikka> as you can now 22:22:48 <andythenorth> herp, I can do that now with tram track? :o 22:22:50 <FLHerne> http://imgur.com/9Qjvp ? 22:23:09 <andythenorth> does scuddles have trams :P 22:23:11 <andythenorth> let's see 22:23:14 <Pikka> what does this mean, FLHerne? 22:23:55 <FLHerne> One roadtype-per-tile would turn the upper crossing into the lower? 22:23:59 <Pikka> no 22:24:08 <andythenorth> ha ha 22:24:08 <Pikka> well 22:24:15 <FLHerne> Unless you did checking for neighbours, in which case the parallel roads would break? 22:24:17 <andythenorth> that's a great griefing opportunity 22:24:19 <Pikka> logically it would turn the upper crossing into the lower 22:24:25 <andythenorth> I can break scuddles tram routes trivially 22:24:31 <Pikka> graphically, if you had a good grf, it would turn the lower crossing into the upper 22:24:50 * andythenorth breaks scuddles tram routes 22:25:02 <Pikka> the parallel roads would not break because the grf detection is not adding road bits 22:25:12 <Pikka> it's simply deciding how to draw those road bits 22:25:27 * FLHerne thinks about that for a moment 22:25:29 <andythenorth> grief 1: simply extend the turn around loop to a non-turnaround loop; stuck trams 22:25:54 <andythenorth> 2: extend it miles out into the countryside 22:25:55 <Pikka> it will not add connections that don't exist, FLHerne, it will simply decide how to draw those connections (as roads, tramtracks, both, needlenardlenoo) 22:25:58 <Pikka> yes andy 22:26:07 <andythenorth> 3. build a tram, park it on other player's tracks 22:26:11 <andythenorth> awesome 22:26:11 <FLHerne> Ooh, clever :-) 22:26:18 <FLHerne> That makes sense now :-) 22:26:19 <Pikka> this is my point, we should not worry about the new spec being griefable because the current spec is no better 22:26:36 <Pikka> and nor should it be 22:27:24 <andythenorth> mostly only play with scuddles 22:27:27 <andythenorth> solves griefing 22:28:20 <Pikka> yes 22:28:31 <peter1138> but! 22:28:39 <peter1138> what about a tram line cross two parallel roads! 22:28:40 <andythenorth> scuddles griefs himself : 22:29:03 <Pikka> then there will be a road connection, peter! oh noes! 22:29:20 <peter1138> disgusting 22:29:31 <andythenorth> write to your MP 22:29:35 <andythenorth> NewMPs 22:29:50 <andythenorth> NewGRFParliaments 22:30:02 <Pikka> tai town halls D; 22:30:14 <andythenorth> do politics 22:30:17 <andythenorth> like simcity 22:30:27 <andythenorth> best thing about simcity (on the SNES) 22:30:32 <andythenorth> election time! 22:30:49 <peter1138> static inline RoadBits GetOtherRoadBits(TileIndex t, RoadType rt) 22:30:57 <peter1138> yeah that'll make sense 22:32:54 <andythenorth> I'll start preparing these then ;) http://www.met-chem.com/data/thumb/98147.jpg 22:33:06 <Pikka> yay 22:33:26 <peter1138> :S 22:34:21 <FLHerne> Electric mining trucks? :o 22:34:30 <peter1138> ok, erm 22:34:40 <peter1138> it is actually possible to give road + trams second owners 22:35:22 <andythenorth> http://newsroom.scania.com/en-group/2012/07/04/electric-truck-for-alternative-ore-transportation/ 22:35:27 <Rubidium> but don't we need that space for CBH? 22:35:43 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Your steam trams will look better, too :-) 22:35:53 <Rubidium> like a level road crossing with road and tram on a bridge head: four owners per tile jackpot ;) 22:38:18 <andythenorth> herm 22:38:25 <andythenorth> just give each player their own map array 22:38:30 <andythenorth> one owner on every tile :P 22:43:28 <Pikka> andythenorth: it would be good for RVs if the exhaust could come from somewhere other than the roof, too 22:43:44 <Pikka> fine for big trucks, not so much for buses 22:43:53 <andythenorth> gee, and do you want the moon on a stick too? 22:44:17 <andythenorth> that's really a request too far 22:44:18 <andythenorth> smoke 22:44:26 <andythenorth> but where is moon? In TTD? 22:44:49 <andythenorth> NewGRFCelestialBodies 22:45:07 <Pikka> up and to the right, innit 22:45:14 <andythenorth> behind the sun? 22:45:17 <andythenorth> bit weird 22:45:19 <Pikka> yes 22:45:23 <Pikka> unless you're MB 22:45:36 <andythenorth> or TTRS 22:45:41 <Pikka> or our george 22:45:43 <Pikka> yes 22:45:46 <Pikka> or anyone really 22:45:47 <andythenorth> or opengfx 22:45:59 <andythenorth> anyone who is wrong :P 22:46:26 <andythenorth> some of FISH is still wrong 22:46:43 <andythenorth> also frosch123 we had a sane discussion about newgrf effect vehicles recently o_O 22:47:39 <frosch123> yeah, i even wrote a spec yesterday/today 22:47:46 <andythenorth> \o/ 22:47:57 <frosch123> but it has some silly parts i don't like :p 22:48:24 <andythenorth> delete them 22:48:44 <frosch123> yeah, also my conclusion :p 22:48:57 <frosch123> they are easy to implement whatever they may look like 22:48:58 <andythenorth> rest of it is pretty good eh? 22:49:03 <frosch123> so i can do the more interesting parts first 22:49:13 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 22:49:28 <andythenorth> herm 22:49:35 <andythenorth> roadtypes must be buildable on water! 22:49:44 <andythenorth> how many tile bits is that? 22:49:55 <frosch123> yeah, just extent railtypes to 256 22:50:02 <frosch123> and make them cover road and water ways too :p 22:50:37 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:38 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:15 <peter1138> 256 railtypes? o_O 22:52:15 <andythenorth> without that, how do we do wuppertal? 22:52:26 <andythenorth> is wuppertal a tram? :P 22:53:53 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Of course.:P I was going on about overhead monorails earlier, but that annoyed Pikka... 22:53:57 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 22:54:28 <frosch123> peter1138: ofc. i am sure someone wants a universal track type which can handle maglev, trolley busses and ships 22:54:38 <frosch123> for easier transport type transitions in late game 22:54:58 <frosch123> it's quite tedious to replace ship routes with maglev otherwise 22:55:07 <peter1138> trakc types now? heh 22:55:21 <andythenorth> frosch123: you didn't even mention hovercraft :( 22:55:29 <andythenorth> remember your hovercraft patch? 22:55:39 <frosch123> sure :p 22:55:41 <peter1138> can they go up mountains 22:56:08 <frosch123> hovercraft patch made all tiles traversable for ships 22:56:22 <frosch123> but it crashed when ships entered house or industry tiles 22:56:29 <andythenorth> valid IMO 22:56:30 <frosch123> because gettileowner asserted or so 22:58:13 <andythenorth> looked awesome :P 23:02:43 *** chester_ [~chester@95-25-246-145.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:45 <andythenorth> hrm, sleepy times? 23:04:15 <peter1138> compiles up to r* so far :p 23:04:20 <Terkhen> good night 23:07:27 <andythenorth> bye 23:07:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:12:36 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:39:53 <peter1138> Pikka, this can't be done 23:39:59 <Pikka> why not? 23:40:11 <peter1138> because it basically rips out loads and loads of code 23:40:22 <Pikka> which is bad? 23:40:26 <peter1138> yeah 23:40:28 <peter1138> someone had to write that 23:40:35 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:53 <Pikka> they'll get over it 23:41:56 <peter1138> /* Multiple owners */ 23:42:03 <peter1138> /* One to rule them all */ 23:42:04 <peter1138> ... 23:42:15 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 23:42:24 <glx> all your base are belong to us 23:43:28 <Pikka> trams are mostly the fault of you, me and stevenh, aren't they peter? 23:45:20 <peter1138> not me 23:45:34 <Pikka> who brought them in to openttd then? 23:49:34 <peter1138> i wish i knew 23:49:43 <peter1138> -Add: support for Action 0 Road vehicles, property 1C, bit 0. 23:51:26 <frosch123> rb 23:52:52 <peter1138> eah 23:52:53 <peter1138> +y 23:53:06 <peter1138> putting too much work into something i don't believe in :p 23:53:34 <glx> oh you don't have a patch for that ? ;) 23:56:27 <frosch123> night 23:56:33 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009fe3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]