Log for #openttd on 28th January 2013:
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02:17:03  <Supercheese> bleh, I hate that I have no idea how hot 50°C is
02:17:29  <Supercheese> friggin' everything is in Fahrenheit here, though :(
02:17:54  <Supercheese> 128°F, that I know
02:19:04  <Supercheese> 53°C, rather
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04:28:14  <Flygon> Supercheese: 50c is pretty darned hot
04:28:21  <Flygon> I can say that as an Australian :B
04:29:32  <Supercheese> I was doing homework for my engineering class, that was the final temperature of a pipe surface I calculated. Well, it ended up being in Kelvin, but they wanted the answer in Celsius
04:30:08  <Supercheese> of course I don't think in Kelvin nor Celsius, so I also had to convert to °F
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05:10:22  <Flygon> Wow
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05:21:15  <kamnet> Good morning to anybody who might be awake.
05:22:50  <kamnet> *yawns*
05:26:15  <Flygon> Menta
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06:55:05  <peter1138> moo
06:59:00  <Supercheese> baa
06:59:12  <Supercheese> alternatively: Masters of Orion?
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07:22:34  <andythenorth> Pikka ponk
07:22:34  <andythenorth>
07:22:38  <andythenorth>
07:22:42  <Pikka> don't they
07:22:45  <andythenorth> yup
07:23:27  <Pikka> Top speed 	24 km/h (15 mph)
07:23:29  <Pikka> yay
07:23:34  <andythenorth> he
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07:23:41  <andythenorth> replaces the gronk?
07:23:42  <andythenorth> :P
07:24:01  <andythenorth> I might draw them for add on set
07:24:04  <andythenorth> and cheat the stats
07:24:08  <Pikka> Di 8, another non-UK loading gauge loco not used on the mainline \o/
07:24:12  <andythenorth> yes :)
07:24:25  <Pikka> may as well add an SW1200 while we're at it
07:24:26  <andythenorth> 'industrial trackage'
07:24:27  <andythenorth> :P
07:24:37  <andythenorth> sw1001
07:24:57  <Pikka> or whichever one it was
07:25:45  <andythenorth> just forbid bridges
07:25:47  <andythenorth> and stations
07:26:20  <andythenorth> and tunnels
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07:28:05  <Pikka> yes
07:28:17  <Pikka> that will be a useful train, that can't use stations :)
07:28:31  <andythenorth> limit it to hauling these
07:29:38  <andythenorth> it's hard to tell on irc, but you give me the impression that this is not idea of the century for you? o_O
07:29:52  <Pikka> :O
07:30:01  <Pikka> also, amazingly, scuddles trains are not jammed
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07:30:50  <andythenorth> they're all very sensible
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07:34:21  <andythenorth> if I draw diagonal canals, can we have diagonal canals?
07:34:34  <Supercheese> You've heard my proposal for that :P
07:41:06  <peter1138> i did half-rivers once
07:42:57  <andythenorth> could you manage it again?
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07:58:55  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r24946 trunk/src/lang/english_AU.txt (2013-01-28 07:58:49 UTC)
07:58:56  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5393]: Australians aren't snakesssss
07:59:48  <peter1138> or maybe they are
07:59:53  <peter1138> are you a snake?
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08:06:45  <Supercheese> Aussssstrailian railwayssssss
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08:16:16  <Supercheese> good night
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08:16:38  <__ln__> for some values of night
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08:17:51  <peter1138> indeed
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08:21:18  <Kimmey> how do we config the sea in the dedicated serv?
08:22:28  <peter1138> quantity_sea_lakes
08:22:37  <peter1138> and custom_sea_level
08:23:32  <Kimmey> to 0 ?
08:23:49  <peter1138> hnm?
08:24:20  <Kimmey> custom sea_lvl to 0 ?
08:24:36  <peter1138> depends how much sea you want
08:24:44  <Kimmey> i want dont want so mutch -.-
08:25:27  <peter1138> custom_sea_level is only used if quantity_sea_lakes is 4
08:25:48  <peter1138> (which corresponds to Custom in the UI)
08:25:57  <peter1138> custom_sea_level minimum is 1
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08:29:58  <Kimmey> thx i got it :D
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08:35:25  <peter1138> hmm ships take ages to accelerate to 180mph :p
08:35:30  <peter1138> never mind that ships use knots
08:36:29  <V453000> 180mph ships? :D
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08:39:04  <peter1138> water speed record is... 317 mph, heh
08:39:40  <peter1138> hmm
08:39:52  <peter1138> the water speed record has an 85% fatality rate... scary
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08:48:21  <Eddi|zuHause> don't do that then :p
08:49:22  <peter1138> yeah good idea
08:51:38  <Celestar> damn I sometimes hate mailing lists
08:52:05  <Celestar> Q: "How do I do <action> on an ext4 file system?" -- A: "I think you should use XFS, it's a better file system"
08:52:15  <peter1138> haha
08:52:33  <__ln__> would it feel better on a web-based forum?
08:52:49  <Celestar> not much >P
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08:59:12  <Flygon> Gah, my trains are stupid
08:59:19  <Flygon> I tell them to autoreplace
08:59:25  <Flygon> COMPLETELY ignore depots
08:59:31  <Flygon> I got plenty of cahs...
08:59:33  <Flygon> cash*
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09:45:12  <peter1138> hmm
09:49:00  <planetmaker> moin
09:49:31  <planetmaker> Flygon, trains will ignore depots, if you have an explicit service order in their orders list
09:49:47  <Flygon> Explicit service order?
09:49:49  <Flygon> None of those
09:49:50  <planetmaker> for if no servicing is needed for breakdown reasons
09:50:08  <planetmaker> i.e. "no breakdowns" and "no servicing, if no breakdowns"
09:50:10  <Flygon> As it turns out, the signals were confusing the pathfinder
09:50:25  <Flygon> Kept  on putting Pass-from-behind signals in front of depots
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09:57:27  <peter1138> ooookay
09:57:34  <peter1138> raid controller is throwing up errors
09:57:44  <peter1138> raid controller manager says all drives are okay
09:58:21  <peter1138> (0x04:0x0023): Sector repair completed: port=1, LBA=0x2139E1
09:58:25  <peter1138> quite a lot of them
09:58:36  <Flygon> Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun
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09:58:51  <peter1138> controller has a spare drive available but it's not using it
10:00:55  <peter1138> i can get a smart dump but it's just hex output, not parsed
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10:09:09  <NGC3982> Morning.
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10:25:23  <peter1138>
10:25:32  <peter1138> don't really like that change tbh
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10:59:56  <NGC3982>
11:00:03  <NGC3982> I can't get that train to go anywhere
11:00:11  <NGC3982> The train just before it just drove out and ..worked.
11:00:44  <NGC3982> wat!
11:00:48  <NGC3982> It crached
11:00:51  <NGC3982> In the depot :O
11:01:05  <andythenorth> hax
11:01:49  <NGC3982> For some reasons, two trains was in that depot
11:02:06  <NGC3982> Since two of my trains crached when i ignored the signal on the one i found in there.
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11:05:00  <peter1138> crashed!
11:05:08  <peter1138> would you believe it can't pass a one-way signal?
11:05:27  <peter1138> hmm oh right it faces the other way
11:05:31  <peter1138> why would you put that signal there though?
11:05:39  <NGC3982> Of course it wont, but since parts (all of it) is still in the depot, shouldn't i see two trains in there?
11:06:04  <NGC3982> It will*.
11:06:07  <peter1138> not in the screenshot,no
11:06:37  <NGC3982> For esthetics.
11:07:21  <peter1138> to stop vehicles using it?
11:11:30  <NGC3982> I put it there since it looks goods. I did not realize that would make trains non-visible in depot, while traveling from it.
11:11:37  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a train that already left the depot, it won't show in the depot
11:12:22  <NGC3982> Why? When i do it manually on other depots (without the signal), it shows as green in the depot until it no longer reserves the track tile.
11:12:36  <NGC3982> Uhm, hold on.
11:12:38  <NGC3982> Wait, ignore that.
11:13:18  <NGC3982> Yes, i understand why this happends now.
11:13:23  * NGC3982 removes the signals.
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12:58:43  <peter1138> uh oh, a greenlight suggestions
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14:19:37  <peter1138> TRAVESTY
14:21:59  <andythenorth> yes
14:25:06  <Belugas> hello
14:25:42  <Belugas> toot toot concept????
14:25:52  <peter1138> it's serious
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14:25:58  <peter1138> the coffee machine has died
14:29:16  <andythenorth> terrible
14:29:31  <Belugas> ho fuck.. that is a tragedy!
14:31:01  * NGC3982 measures Peter's width and height for funeral purposes.
14:34:03  <peter1138> 6'6
14:34:11  <peter1138> for both :p
14:35:06  <NGC3982> :D
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14:50:20  <Belugas> so for now on, call him Mister peter1138!
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14:57:37  <Flygon> peter1138: Just an inch away from being a Flygon!
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15:03:15  <peter1138> hmm
15:03:18  <peter1138> anything else i can fix?
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15:05:46  <andythenorth> is the coffee machine fixed?
15:05:55  <peter1138> no
15:06:08  <peter1138> internal fuse blown i assume
15:06:59  <Flygon> It's a coffee machine from 1880
15:07:04  <Flygon> It's powered by coal
15:07:11  <Flygon> No fuses D:
15:08:06  <NGC3982> I hate myself.
15:08:14  <peter1138> so do we
15:08:29  <NGC3982> "Replace vehicles" and "Send to depot" seems to be very close to one another.
15:08:35  <NGC3982> peter1138: Oh you.
15:08:44  <peter1138> you're welcome :D
15:09:31  <V453000> :D
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15:17:25  <FLHerne> Is there a reason why the bomb tool removes all rail tiles of a station?
15:17:43  <peter1138> because you're destroying the station
15:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> the bomb tool removes everything on every tile (that can be bombed)
15:17:53  <peter1138> if you want to remove bits of it just use the bulldozer tool
15:18:01  <FLHerne> The equivalent doesn't happen for road stations, and in my experience doesn't seem to be intended behaviour that often :P
15:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> the bomb tool also destroys the road on a road station. the bulldozer tool doesn't
15:18:36  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
15:18:47  <FLHerne> peter1138: In that case, shouldn't using the bomb on a road station remove all road stations?
15:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess that is "inherited behaviour" from before non-uniform stations was introduced
15:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: just hit the undo knob if that happens :p
15:20:23  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Did anyone invent one?
15:20:31  * FLHerne could use an undo knob :D
15:20:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's called autosave
15:21:04  <peter1138> hehe
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15:21:12  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Hah, true. Done that a few times, normally when I manage to kill >5000 people in a rail crash :-/
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15:22:21  <FLHerne> Double-deck carriages, long trains and playing at midnight don't do my casualty figures any good :-/
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15:27:40  <peter1138> o_O
15:41:08  <peter1138> yay bowie
15:45:13  <peter1138> # but this feels so unnatural, peter gabriel too
15:45:16  <peter1138> hmm
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16:04:53  <__ln__>
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16:26:42  <peter1138> BUT I'M A SUBSTITUTE FOR ANOTHER GUY
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16:34:34  <peter1138> so quiet
16:35:37  <Rubidium> oh, I thought you were the substitute for the guy that always talks ;)
16:36:26  <andythenorth> WHAT YOU MEAN ME
16:37:18  <__ln__> there can be only one
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16:45:05  <V453000> :D
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16:57:40  * peter1138 ponders doing that dependent engines thing
16:57:54  <peter1138> if (x is activated) activate y
16:58:33  <andythenorth> pikka asked for roadtypes
16:58:35  <andythenorth> but they smell
16:58:39  <andythenorth> I wouldn't even like them
16:58:42  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: so, the article starts ok, but the "interview" on the second page has a lot of noisy bullshit...
17:00:25  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: all in all, i'm really glad the EU threw out "software patents"
17:05:45  <__ln__> for the time being at least
17:06:09  <andythenorth> now what
17:06:11  * andythenorth wonders
17:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder if you can troll patent trolls by trying to reimplement the patents they file. if you don't succeed, the patent would be invalid
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17:53:44  <andythenorth> hm
17:53:47  <peter1138> hm
17:53:50  <andythenorth> yes
17:53:53  <peter1138> no
17:54:06  <andythenorth> well that makes my life easier
17:54:10  <peter1138> ok
17:54:12  <andythenorth> I won't then
17:55:36  <andythenorth> need industry window text that varies according to economy parameter
17:55:42  <andythenorth> probly a switch will do it :P
17:55:53  <andythenorth> that's like a varaction 2 in old money
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17:59:20  <frosch123> hmm, i wonder whether asking your gf to translate for ottd works out
17:59:47  <MNIM> inly in return for favours
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18:01:27  <Terkhen> hello
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18:11:19  <peter1138> hmm, chips
18:11:24  <peter1138> fish & chips
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18:12:31  <andythenorth> hot dog
18:12:34  <andythenorth> jumping frog
18:15:15  <peter1138> is CHIPS an initialism?
18:16:35  <andythenorth> ish
18:17:15  <peter1138> CHIPS Has Improved Player's Stations
18:17:16  <peter1138> I see
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18:19:16  <peter1138> can i steal some graphics?
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18:26:35  <George> Hello. Is there anybody here who can help whith AI question
18:26:56  <George> wiki says, that property 18 is not used by OpenTTDs NoAI API.
18:27:39  <George> How should the train inform AI that this engine is not designed to be used by AI?
18:27:47  <planetmaker> not at all
18:27:56  <planetmaker> and hi George
18:28:09  <George> previously setting prop 18 to 0 solved the problem
18:28:14  <planetmaker> AIs are supposed to have access to everything. So that (mis)feature is not available
18:29:08  <George> how to tell the AI that CHS7 should be used only by buying 2 engines for one consist
18:29:17  <George> or should not be used
18:29:34  <George> at all
18:29:41  <planetmaker> you cannot
18:29:53  <George> and what to do&
18:29:56  <planetmaker> And tbh, it's a rule a human won't obey necessarily either
18:29:57  <George> ?
18:30:07  <planetmaker> make an articulated consist and enforce it
18:30:37  <andythenorth> hmm
18:30:38  <George> unfortunately it is possible to buy more of them
18:30:43  <andythenorth> switches can be wrapped in in if {}
18:30:44  <George> but at leas 2
18:30:44  <andythenorth> ?
18:31:11  <planetmaker> I don't get that condition, George
18:31:15  <planetmaker> I don't understand
18:31:25  <George> a human would get error message when trying to start consist
18:31:27  <planetmaker> As player I could also buy the engine once, twice, three times... ?
18:31:37  <planetmaker> the AI would get that, too
18:31:44  <George> you can
18:32:03  <George> but you need to connect at least 2 to run the consist
18:32:03  <peter1138> // warning about grfcodec/nforenum are fucking retarded
18:32:05  <peter1138> lol
18:32:10  <peter1138> andythenorth checks his patches ;)
18:32:22  <peter1138> hmm, actually maybe not
18:32:24  <peter1138> that's my repo :p
18:32:34  <planetmaker> George, but... then you should make it an articulated vehicle which... requires itself 2x ?
18:32:34  <andythenorth> ho
18:33:03  <George> planetmaker: no
18:33:15  <George> you can buy 3 parts
18:33:29  <planetmaker> articulation with refit option would solve it easily
18:33:37  <planetmaker> and error-free
18:33:45  <planetmaker> also nicer for user, imho
18:33:46  <George> if I make it articulated from 2 parts it would be impossible to use 3. Only and 4
18:33:52  <George> 2 and 4
18:33:56  <planetmaker> than consists which are broken when not rule XY is followed
18:34:11  <planetmaker> just one vehicle. with refits to 2 3 or 4 parts
18:34:23  <planetmaker> ask andy how he treats his trams :-)
18:34:37  <andythenorth> I hate them :P
18:34:41  <andythenorth> stupid refits :)
18:34:48  <andythenorth> there has to be a better way
18:34:50  <George> It is not possible to change the price on refit (buy or sell the part)
18:35:11  <andythenorth> can set a refit cost
18:35:13  <planetmaker> of course refit cost can vary...
18:35:14  <andythenorth> I think it's signed
18:35:34  <George> also it would not be possible to change the number of parts in a later years when you can't buy a new one
18:35:46  <planetmaker> refit would still work
18:36:02  <George> in case they are parts you can assembly 2 3-part trains form 3 2-part trains
18:36:10  <planetmaker> your suggested solution has the backdraw you mention. Refit not
18:36:31  <peter1138> drawback :0
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18:37:52  <andythenorth> new industry idea: oyster pearl farm
18:38:02  <planetmaker> cool. +1 @ andythenorth
18:38:05  <George> it is not a backdraw. It is intended behaviour, that is imposible with refit
18:38:36  <George> because in case of refit you would get 3 3part trains
18:38:58  <George> while it should be impossible, because it is not produced
18:39:01  <planetmaker> well. You can do as you want and likely screw AIs :-)
18:39:13  <George> but back to the origin
18:39:41  <George> How to make AI not mistaken?
18:40:05  <George> at least make it not to buy such "tricky" trains?
18:40:05  <planetmaker> use sensible rules. And not rules which even a human needs time to figure out by trial and error
18:40:14  <planetmaker> that's all the humans do. And that's all the AIs can do
18:40:18  <andythenorth> hrm
18:40:23  <andythenorth> I need a switch to do a thing
18:40:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker you want to get some FIRS commits under your belt?
18:40:43  * andythenorth has pseudo-flu
18:40:46  <Zuu> George: Make things that can be easily figured out without having access to a readme or text descriptions
18:41:04  <planetmaker> in principle yes. But not today... I'm off to bed soon... getting rid of nasty cold
18:41:29  <andythenorth> herp
18:41:30  <George> planetmaker: i would not change the rule. It is historical. My uestion is how to help the AI
18:41:35  <planetmaker> what would you have me do, andythenorth ?
18:41:45  <planetmaker> George, Zuu gave you the answer
18:41:49  <andythenorth> trying to vary a string according to parameter
18:41:53  <andythenorth> I'll figure it out
18:41:58  <andythenorth> I am +1 to bed :P
18:42:05  <andythenorth> but there will be a baby in it
18:42:06  <planetmaker> make and use rules which one can figure out w/o reading anything
18:42:19  <George> planetmaker: Zuu answered not to my question
18:42:25  *** ntoskrnl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:42:53  <planetmaker> uhm, he did?
18:43:27  <George> I do not ask how to make the set that easy that the AI could use it
18:43:42  <Zuu> <George> How to make AI not mistaken?  <--- I tried to answer this question
18:44:08  <planetmaker> or is "use easy to-figure-out-rules" no acceptable?
18:44:10  <George> I asked how to make AI work with the designed rules
18:44:13  <andythenorth> if I draw diagonal canals, would someone consider coding them?
18:44:25  <Zuu>  <--- these are the engine properties that are available to AIs
18:44:36  <andythenorth> I am bored of canals being on a grid :P
18:44:41  <andythenorth> of limited angles
18:44:49  *** Zeknurn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:44:53  <andythenorth> more angles!
18:44:55  <andythenorth> angles++
18:45:20  <George> planetmaker: > or is "use easy to-figure-out-rules" no acceptable? Of cause not!
18:45:31  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24947 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-01-28 18:45:21 UTC)
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18:45:32  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:32  <George> Rules are alredy designed
18:45:33  <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 3 changes by AtomD
18:45:34  <DorpsGek> bulgarian - 16 changes by pdedinski
18:45:35  <DorpsGek> hungarian - 39 changes by oklmernok
18:45:36  <DorpsGek> japanese - 229 changes by Aknuth
18:45:37  <__ln__> talking about porn dvds or what?
18:45:43  <George> based on the railway history
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18:46:16  <George> now I want to make AI work. At least not do mistakes
18:46:20  <Wolf01> o/
18:47:53  <frosch123> George: for ais the same rules apply as for humans
18:48:02  <Zuu> George: Each AI have their own code which uses a the NoAI API. Either you make the engines or wagons that you want that AIs should avoid, look to bad to be a sensible selection or you need to change every AI.
18:48:03  <frosch123> if the start/stop check rejects certain compositions
18:48:06  <frosch123> it will also do so for ais
18:48:59  <George> Yes, it does
18:49:54  <George> But how would AI know that it should use two locomotives to start?
18:50:17  <George> Or some more tricky rule?
18:50:36  <Zuu> If you want to make a sound contribution to AIs, you could make a library that abstracts train composing with respect to all existing and future NewGRFs. I'm sure many AI authors would love a such library.
18:51:10  <George> I supposed it would be possible to say "this vehicle is too tricky for AI" (prop 18=0), but looks like this solution is ruined
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18:51:42  <frosch123> the ai will notice itself what engine are too tricky
18:51:53  <George> How?
18:51:55  <frosch123> how could a newgrf make assumptions about what the ai is capable of
18:52:12  <frosch123> it will notice that the train cannot be started
18:52:21  <frosch123> just the same like every player who did not read the manual
18:52:40  <Zuu> Information that is hidden in vehicle callbacks are usually hidden to AIs when they select engines. The ai have to build an engine and using the vehicle that get created to try out what works and not.
18:52:45  <frosch123> they will damn the trainset, sell the train and go for road vehicles :p
18:52:46  <George> Not the GRF, but the GRF coder. By setting prop 18 for example
18:54:54  <George> frosch123: Do I undestand it right, that the train GRF coder should not think about AI? It is the AI's coder question to discover problems with the engine and stop using it?
18:56:08  <frosch123> yes, no
18:56:29  <frosch123> the ai coder has to code the ai in a way that it notices that the engines do not work as expected
18:56:39  <George> No?
18:56:52  <George> And what would it do in that case?
18:56:53  <frosch123> you asked two questions, i gave you two answers
18:57:03  <frosch123> that's up to the ai
18:57:11  <frosch123> likely it will sell the engine and try a different one
18:57:17  <George> I see.
18:57:31  <George> Is there any AI coders here?
18:57:38  <Zuu> <-- one
18:58:00  <George> What does your AI do when it can't start a train?
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18:58:17  <Zuu> Although I haven't made any work with trains. One reason for that is actually the engine + wagon compose hell. :-)
18:58:51  <Zuu> Another is that I have simply not have time to get there, keeping myself busy with RVs + aircraft + other projects
18:59:44  <George> Ok, when you would start working with trains please contakt me - I'll inform you about a real hell :)
19:00:21  <George> may be then we would find what to do with xUSSR train set tarin combination rules :)
19:00:39  <Kimmey> hello
19:02:42  <George> Is there any AI coders here who have coded train support?
19:02:44  <Kimmey> need some help 2 u :s
19:02:47  <Zuu> Maybe NewGRFs should be allowed to define consists which would appear in the buy menu. Basically a template for a full train. If a consist can have a length parameter to vary # of wagons, then there will not be 10k different consists :-)
19:02:58  <Kimmey> from*
19:03:12  <andythenorth> views
19:03:17  <George> Zuu - that would be good
19:03:46  <andythenorth> that might be a perversion of views
19:03:48  <andythenorth> hmm
19:03:54  <Kimmey> to make an dedicaded serv:)
19:04:10  <Zuu> Kimmey:
19:04:13  <Zuu> @get 3
19:04:13  <DorpsGek> Zuu: Don't ask to ask, just ask
19:04:41  <andythenorth> FIRS needs a load of translation updates
19:04:45  <andythenorth> if anyone's interested
19:05:23  <andythenorth>
19:05:35  <andythenorth> might release 0.9 soon
19:06:07  <Zuu> Kimmey: Also, unless its a server for eg. your friends to play at, there are already quite many servers online. But maybe you have specific plans that none of the existing servers live up to?
19:06:18  <Kimmey> can anyone help me?
19:06:49  <Zuu> Kimmey: It's easier if you ask your question rather than asking if you can ask it
19:07:51  <Kimmey> i lunched openttd.exe -D
19:08:14  <Kimmey> and i want to advertise the server
19:09:11  <Zuu> Since you are on Windows, you can start openttd.exe without "-D", configure it and then close OpenTTD. After that you can start it with -D.
19:09:34  <Zuu> This way you have access to graphical configuration which might be of help for you.
19:09:42  <Kimmey> just re install ?
19:10:13  <Zuu> No nead to re-install OpenTTD.
19:10:28  <Kimmey> where are u from?
19:10:36  <Kimmey> kk
19:11:09  <Kimmey> i only go and openttd.exe and settings?
19:12:36  <Zuu> openttd.exe -> Flera spelare (Eng: multiplayer) -> Starta server. For "Anslutning", select "Lan/Internet".
19:12:44  <Zuu> Assuming you run openttd in Swedish.
19:13:12  <Kimmey> jeg er norsk
19:14:39  <Zuu> Do you use nynorsk or bokmål?
19:15:50  <Zuu> Fleirspiler -> Start jener -> Forbindelse -> Lan/Internett.
19:16:34  <andythenorth> in a string(FOO, string(BLAH)) can I instead reference a switch identifier to get the substring?
19:16:44  <andythenorth> string(FOO, switch_id)?
19:16:59  <Zuu> After having set this, you might need to configure your firewall and/or router. Otherwise incomming traffic to your server may not be able to reach you.
19:17:04  <Zuu> @ports
19:17:04  <DorpsGek> Zuu: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
19:17:47  <Zuu> Make sure TCP and UDP is forwarded/enabled for port 3979 and 3978.
19:18:41  <Zuu> With some delay (up to some 5-15 minutes or so), you can use our server list on the website to confirm when you have succeded:
19:22:28  <Kimmey> so i have to go to the router and write in 3979 and 3978 ?
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19:25:53  <andythenorth> anyone know where string() is documented for nml
19:26:23  <andythenorth> newgrf wiki search produces 26 resuls, none seem to be what I want
19:30:19  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:36:08  <andythenorth> ugh
19:36:13  <andythenorth> simplest things can be most work
19:36:23  <andythenorth> simply changing a string means recoding every industry :P
19:36:26  <andythenorth> lolwut?
19:36:27  <andythenorth> yes
19:38:36  <Supercheese> string theory again, eh? ;)
19:48:51  <peter1138> i give up
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19:50:39  <peter1138> eh
19:50:44  <peter1138> decode chips
19:50:56  <peter1138> some sprites are in dos palette, some are in windows palette... o_O
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19:53:34  <andythenorth> eh?
19:53:40  <andythenorth> did I do that? :P
19:53:44  <peter1138> dunno
19:53:52  <andythenorth> I switched to dos last year or so
19:53:56  <Supercheese> So, hmm, some folks have Bananas questions, regarding if/when information is uploaded to Bananas
19:53:59  <andythenorth> I thought I batch converted
19:54:22  <Supercheese> I'd conjecture the only time stuff uploaded to Bananas servers when the client says "I want to download this thingy here"
19:54:30  <Supercheese> stuff is*
19:54:53  <peter1138> a request is not exactly an upload
19:54:58  <Supercheese> The rest of the communication is just downloading info from Bananas and comparing that to the local stuff on disk, yes?
19:55:00  <andythenorth> you mean 'phone home' stuff?
19:55:08  <Supercheese> Right, "request" being a pseudo-upload
19:55:11  <Supercheese> packets sent
19:55:28  <andythenorth> it'll be a POST or something
19:55:31  <andythenorth> or GET
19:55:34  * andythenorth guesses
19:55:47  <andythenorth> it'll send some vars about what it wants
19:55:51  <andythenorth> and some control info
19:55:56  <Supercheese> what about information about what the client already has, that's all controlled locally right?
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19:56:15  <frosch123> the client does not tell the server what it has
19:56:21  <andythenorth> if we had that info, we'd make charts :)
19:56:27  <Supercheese> thanks frosch
19:56:31  <frosch123> the server just sends the ids and md5sum of everything it likes to offer the client
19:56:39  <Supercheese> exactly what I expected, yeah
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20:00:31  <andythenorth> I swear new FIRS is broken someway that I haven't spotted :P
20:00:36  <andythenorth> but anyway, it's on bananasasa
20:00:40  <andythenorth> test for yourselves :P
20:00:49  <Supercheese> :)
20:01:02  <andythenorth> supply requirements are smaller for primary industries
20:01:15  <andythenorth> as in all my games, all metal / wood / petrol production goes back to make supplies
20:01:19  <Supercheese> didja add a parameter for that or not?
20:01:22  <andythenorth> nope
20:01:25  <Supercheese> k
20:01:26  <andythenorth> and farms were really hard
20:01:31  <andythenorth> so they're eased further
20:01:36  <andythenorth> also there's a Port industry
20:01:53  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:02:04  <andythenorth> ^ Flherne hates FIRS
20:02:10  <andythenorth> he's gone off in a huff
20:05:26  *** Fira [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:06:39  <NGC3982> FIRS is my primary way of playing OpenTTD.
20:06:45  <NGC3982> Tis' be neat.
20:09:42  <peter1138> Supercheese, was it simuscape people asking? :p
20:09:53  <Supercheese> yeap
20:09:58  <peter1138> how *did* i guess
20:10:29  <Supercheese> It seems like it should be obvious no information is sent to the Bananas servers... but I guess it isn't
20:11:44  <peter1138> yeah well, there is a caveat
20:11:57  <peter1138> if you run a server, clients query it to get the newgrf list
20:12:55  <frosch123> maybe they are confusing bananas with the master server
20:12:58  *** KritiK_ [] has joined #openttd
20:13:02  <peter1138> if you run a public server, that is queried by the master server
20:13:23  <peter1138> but that's only a newgrf list of files that are in use
20:14:07  <frosch123> Supercheese: the masterserver collects a list of all grfs and their names which have ever been used on a public server
20:15:32  <Rubidium> ... to fill (which lists the used NewGRFs)
20:15:42  *** Kimmey [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
20:16:14  *** Stimrol [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:20:25  <Supercheese> Ok, quoted the relevant lines above, hopefully that'll sort out the Simuscape-folk questions
20:21:53  <Supercheese> Andy: "Change: plural forms in NML are now decimal like in OpenTTD lang files. Adopt the Slovakian lang file accordingly"
20:22:01  <Supercheese> should that be "adapt"...?
20:22:18  <Supercheese> or am I reading that wrong?
20:23:19  <andythenorth> dunno
20:23:21  <andythenorth> not my commit :)
20:23:27  <andythenorth> probably though
20:24:47  <Supercheese> very minor detail
20:29:03  <andythenorth> someone test the port?
20:29:10  <andythenorth> I haven't actually used it in a game
20:29:12  <Supercheese> Basic Arctic only eh?
20:29:15  <andythenorth> yup
20:29:16  <peter1138> nobody tests stuff
20:29:30  <andythenorth> I used to :P
20:29:38  <andythenorth> now I just copy working code from elsewhere :P
20:29:41  <andythenorth> cargo cult
20:29:55  <Supercheese> Damnit andy
20:29:59  <Supercheese> now I have to redo the parameters
20:30:04  <andythenorth> yes of course
20:30:14  <andythenorth> you can't just change them on a running game o_O
20:30:17  <Supercheese> at least "Favorable" is spelled correctly now :P
20:30:33  <andythenorth> oic
20:30:36  <andythenorth> translations
20:30:42  <andythenorth> languages are a mess right now
20:30:53  <Supercheese> languages are always a mess
20:30:58  <Supercheese> since Babel :P
20:31:06  <andythenorth> post changes on a ticket, I'll commit
20:31:25  <andythenorth> it needs a 0.9.1 release for lang stuff soon
20:31:34  <andythenorth> Terkhen: ^ :)
20:32:28  <Supercheese> Sheesh, 5 industries are yellow on the minimap
20:32:41  <Supercheese> Brewery, Grocery Store, Hotel, Oil Refinery, and Port
20:32:41  <andythenorth> he
20:32:56  <andythenorth> most of those are near town too
20:33:06  <andythenorth> there's only a couple viable colours in town
20:33:08  <andythenorth> white and yellow
20:33:13  <andythenorth> port could be some other colour
20:34:00  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
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20:34:56  <Supercheese> Huh, Goods only come from Paper Mills in Arctic Basic
20:35:59  <Terkhen> andythenorth: did you change many strings? if it requires checking many changes I won't be able to look into it for two or three days
20:36:09  <andythenorth> just one I think
20:36:16  <andythenorth> Supercheese: it's Basic :P
20:37:10  <Supercheese> Ports love to spawn in small lakes :P
20:37:33  <Supercheese> only 2 of 6 have a connection to map edge (256x512 map)
20:38:04  <Supercheese> of course there's not much of a way to check for that connection via grf, methinks
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20:42:05  <andythenorth> I can think of ways
20:42:08  <andythenorth> but they're ugly
20:42:33  <andythenorth> like walk tiles outwards in a spiral
20:42:54  <andythenorth> it would be nice to have a var during tile checks
20:43:40  <andythenorth> measure water body size / measure minimum distance to map edge (pathfinder)
20:44:34  *** valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
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20:57:22  <Terkhen> andythenorth: more like 31 :P
20:57:30  <andythenorth> oh
20:57:36  <andythenorth> I misread the output :(
20:57:37  <andythenorth> sorry
20:57:43  <Terkhen> I wonder how you manage to make so many changes between versions
20:58:02  <Terkhen> I'll try to do it tomorrow
20:59:43  * peter1138 blinks as this TTO game
20:59:48  <peter1138> apparently contains a steep slope :p
21:00:00  <peter1138> i mean a steep slope shore tile
21:02:17  <peter1138> MP_WATER at level 9?
21:02:20  <peter1138> in TTO?
21:03:12  <Supercheese> hax
21:08:58  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
21:13:24  *** Kimmey [] has joined #openttd
21:14:14  *** KritiK_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:15:31  <Kimmey> Sooo, what's up?
21:15:34  <peter1138>
21:16:38  <frosch123> be carefule
21:16:44  <frosch123> looks like it might turn into a block hole
21:18:42  *** Kimmey [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
21:20:13  <peter1138> yeh
21:21:02  *** DDR_ [] has joined #openttd
21:22:38  <NGC3982> What on earth is that.
21:22:49  <NGC3982> Did Kimmey leave?
21:23:14  <NGC3982> He keeps sending me huge amounts of PM.
21:25:34  *** DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:27:03  <NGC3982>
21:35:21  *** KritiK_ [] has joined #openttd
21:35:21  *** KritiK [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:35:28  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: an easy way to find out whether someone is still here is to try to tab-complete his nickname
21:35:46  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: that image doesn't load
21:36:07  <frosch123> it's no jpg
21:36:15  <frosch123> it's a gif
21:36:27  <frosch123> some douchbag saved it and your browser fails for it
21:36:31  <NGC3982> Yes, but i was un-aware of him changing his nickname or not. Circumstances make me ignore everything that is not user text on IRC.
21:36:47  <NGC3982>
21:36:51  <NGC3982> Does that work better?
21:37:00  <NGC3982> I have no idea why the user that sent me it used .jpg.
21:37:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
21:37:41  <andythenorth> was it worth it?
21:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause> clearly he ran the stop sign
21:40:19  <NGC3982> It was quiet a ruckus about it.
21:40:51  <Zuu> NGC3982: Kimmey PMed me
21:41:21  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody PMs me :/
21:41:27  <NGC3982> How resilient.
21:41:58  <MNIM> Eddi|zuHause: actually, he didn't, his tracks were still for quite some time
21:42:06  <MNIM> but steel tracks get hot when running.
21:42:44  <Eddi|zuHause> "Burglars tried to break into the Berlin police's office for break-in protection, but failed at the break-in protection"
21:43:06  <MNIM> which turns a really grippy, big hunk of steel into a really slippy big hunk of steal still going the same speed
21:43:13  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Break-in-ception!
21:43:13  <MNIM> *steel
21:44:47  <andythenorth> hot loses grip? :o
21:45:30  <Eddi|zuHause> "Around 60% of the world's Top 1000 music videos on youtube are blocked in germany"
21:45:44  <NGC3982> Copyright poop.
21:45:55  <NGC3982> Or wait. What?
21:46:00  <andythenorth> I think in my next MP game, my castle will look like this:
21:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause> "around 19% are blocked in any country other than germany"
21:46:10  <andythenorth> but we need diagonal canals for that ^
21:46:31  <peter1138> yeah, that grey tile is allegedly at height 3
21:46:35  <peter1138> not height 0
21:46:36  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: What is the main reasons?
21:46:43  <NGC3982> Are*
21:47:13  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
21:47:52  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: german's monopoly music copy right agency "GEMA" had a trial program allowing youtube to show the videos for a small royalty fee, that trial ran out in 2009 and the negotiations for a followup treaty went nowhere
21:48:25  <NGC3982> A small royalty fee, to who?
21:48:37  <NGC3982> The american record companies?
21:48:46  <Eddi|zuHause> to the GEMA, which has some kind of key who to give the money to
21:49:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. X% go to international artists, Y% to domestic artists and Z% to publishers
21:49:14  <NGC3982> I fail to see how allowing it will not make more net profit for Germany.
21:49:23  <NGC3982> But then, i do not know of the details.
21:49:46  <Eddi|zuHause> they demanded something like 1¢ per view, which google/youtube found excessive
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21:49:57  <NGC3982> It is.
21:49:59  <NGC3982> Very.
21:50:12  <NGC3982> It sounds very ..sad, for you.
21:50:26  <NGC3982> It almost sound stubborn.
21:50:36  <NGC3982> Just doing it because they can, and soforth.
21:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> well, and since then things escalated...
21:52:36  <Eddi|zuHause> and now you can't view any music on youtube...
21:56:45  <frosch123> NGC3982: they are doing it only to support the pirate party
21:56:47  <Rubidium> so what can you see?
21:57:16  <frosch123> everything which is not trendy
21:57:23  <frosch123> so, actually it might be for the better :p
21:57:45  <Eddi|zuHause> everything that does not have music of the last 70 years
21:58:09  <frosch123> there is no problem in finding non-popular music
21:58:20  <frosch123> (non main-stream)
21:59:04  <Eddi|zuHause> well it gave a great push for the gema-free music scene :)
21:59:18  <Rubidium> gema free?
21:59:20  <Rubidium> how can that be?
21:59:33  <frosch123> you can explicitly deny them to represent you
21:59:36  <Rubidium> doesn't gema get royalties for all and every "artist"?
21:59:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well, the composer can decide to not join the GEMA
21:59:56  <frosch123> but everyone who uses the stuff has to proof that the author denied them
22:00:26  <michi_cc> Of course it's all or nothing though, either everything of you is GEMA or nothing.
22:00:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the GEMA's position is "we assume we own the rights to this title until you prove otherwise" [so-called "GEMA-Vermutung"]
22:00:53  <frosch123> gema is no must, it's just that the assumptions when there is no proof are towards gema
22:02:20  <peter1138> i vote for closing that bu
22:02:20  <Eddi|zuHause> also intereting in this context: [german]
22:02:21  <peter1138> *bug
22:02:33  <peter1138> fs#5207
22:02:33  <Rubidium> <- they should try that in Germany; I guess the result will be the same
22:02:39  <peter1138> savegame is corrupt afaict
22:04:13  <frosch123> peter1138: i think we fix various ttd bugs when loading saves, but if there is no way to fix it, well, close it :)
22:04:28  <peter1138> i can work around m5 being wrong
22:04:34  <Rubidium> they went to the supermarket and bought some stuff, made up songs and then they had to pay royalties for something that doesn't even exist
22:04:46  <peter1138> but if heights are wrong then something else is broken
22:04:54  <peter1138> (and that's probably the reason for m5 being wrong too)
22:05:14  <peter1138> apparently it worked in 1.1.5... heh
22:05:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, that's certainly possible. the GEMA doesn't check whether a title is in their posession, because they don't have to.
22:06:37  <frosch123> peter1138: yes, we added more assertions; that's the reason why we fix ttd games at all :p
22:06:52  <frosch123> but yeah, if the heights are wrong, then there is very likely something very wrong
22:07:38  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: so how do they know the right person gets paid?
22:08:04  <Rubidium> or is it like here, i.e. they never paid authors/producers because they can't figure out a way to determine it?
22:08:11  *** KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:08:35  <Eddi|zuHause> they don't... because the calculation of the distribution key is not public, nobody can say anything against it
22:09:17  <frosch123> i think the only thing they have to publish is how much they keep for themself :p
22:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause> and to become "full member" of the GEMA to influence this key calculation, you need to earn a lot of money in royalty fees the first place
22:10:00  <frosch123> so, yeah, it pretty much screams for corruption :p
22:11:20  <Terkhen> good night
22:20:55  <Wolf01> 'night
22:20:58  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:21:35  <NGC3982> What a boring situation.
22:21:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r24948 trunk/src/road_gui.cpp (2013-01-28 22:21:29 UTC)
22:21:37  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Do not assume CA_BUS and CA_TRUCK to be equal, instead let the compiler optimize the code if that is the case. (ComLock)
22:22:20  <NGC3982> Taking a shot in the dark and trying to make it not so sad, i can happily announce that i have just seen Seven of Nine for the first time, in Voyager.
22:23:15  <NGC3982> It's like tits with robot stuff on it.
22:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a fairly accurate and comprehensive description :p
22:25:52  <Eddi|zuHause> she has meanwhile played in other series as well, e.g. Leverage
22:26:16  <Eddi|zuHause> with less... cleavage :p
22:26:35  <NGC3982> I have no idea what that is
22:26:36  * NGC3982 googles.
22:26:54  <Eddi|zuHause> it's actually quite fun
22:27:38  <Eddi|zuHause> with lots of star trek references in it (but none of them involving seven of nine. she only has a recurring guest role there)
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22:36:56  <frosch123> night
22:36:58  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22:38:21  <Supercheese> A pre-emptive warning, I think there will still be Simuscape-folk questions about OTTD & the online content
22:39:02  <Supercheese> someone will probably email or PM a dev with many questions in the near future
22:39:44  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Ooh.
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22:48:31  <LordAro> "
22:48:33  <LordAro> ==25359== ERROR SUMMARY: 2449611 errors from 16 contexts (suppressed: 4 from 4)"
22:48:37  <LordAro> woops...
22:48:49  <Supercheese> That... is not a small number
22:50:34  <LordAro> indeed not
22:50:49  <LordAro> i blame a misunderstanding about when i have to free/delete memory :L
22:54:35  <LordAro> also, i suspect i have managed to corrupt some system memory - i'm getting some strange errors from bash...
22:57:04  <glx> LordAro: impossible
22:58:08  <LordAro> i'd have thought so, but i've never seen errors like "sh: 0: getcwd() failed: No such file or directory" before... :L
23:00:53  <Supercheese> Hmm, is there any way for a .grf to get onto other than it being used on a public server?
23:01:02  <Supercheese> or uploaded to Bananas I guess
23:02:33  <glx> this list is made from advertised servers
23:03:14  <Supercheese> So I'd expect the list to contain an grf IFF it was at some point used on a public server... hmm
23:03:22  <Supercheese> a grf*
23:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause> does this list even get updated?
23:08:19  <Supercheese> Dang, that is a long list
23:09:20  <Supercheese> Haha, there's like a hundred entries of Long Vehicles
23:09:41  <Supercheese> even more for ECSes
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