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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 06:02:20 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:15:47 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:23:52 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:24:33 *** sla_ro|master [~slamaster@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 06:35:44 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:10:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:10:39 <andythenorth> could the newgrf debug window be marked dirty every time a cb runs? 07:10:45 <andythenorth> or at least, more frequently? 07:11:22 * andythenorth wasted 10 mins trying to debug a non-thing, because the update on persistent storage values is...intermittent :) 07:13:49 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:20:52 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:25:33 *** molv [~molv@ip24-251-142-159.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:26:58 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-092-078-248-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:34:06 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:12 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:36:59 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 07:39:26 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:02:02 <V453000> moo I didnt even ever use the debug window :D 08:18:01 <andythenorth> helps debug stuff :P 08:18:08 <andythenorth> like supplies being broken :P 08:18:55 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18:56 <V453000> :) 08:19:15 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 08:24:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] 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Connection reset by peer] 12:44:13 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:44:16 <HellTiger> there is a creepy uboot driving around. 12:45:15 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:48:14 *** brambles [lechuck@s0.barwen.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:22 *** brambles [lechuck@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #openttd 12:48:33 *** heffer_ [felix@2a01:4f8:160:9ffe:b::1] has joined #openttd 12:49:09 *** Mek_ [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 12:49:12 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:49:22 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:30 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:01:19 *** Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-5d86aa1c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:06:13 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d855766.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:24:10 *** Tvel 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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:46:42 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:08:30 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:09:47 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:12 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD43BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:12:31 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 14:23:56 *** trandism [~trandism@serial.pressclipping.ondsl.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:27:25 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:03:36 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-180-62.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:09:15 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:09:23 *** trandism [~trandism@athedsl-356236.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd 15:09:31 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 15:26:47 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25175 /trunk/src/lang (27 files in 2 dirs) (2013-04-10 15:26:40 UTC) 15:26:48 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 15:26:49 <DorpsGek> faroese - 243 changes by FastNinja 15:28:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25176 /trunk (6 files in 3 dirs) (2013-04-10 15:28:15 UTC) 15:28:22 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Faroese translation 15:35:11 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@90.193.88.212] has joined #openttd 15:46:39 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-5d8237a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 15:50:35 * peter1139 grumbles at things that use hg instead of git :S 15:51:33 <goodger> it's weird how they were developed concurrently and independently 15:54:07 <peter1139> i might just patch against the last release 15:56:49 <peter1139> branches seem a little different 15:57:23 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 16:05:15 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d50-92-61-242.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 16:08:32 *** molv [~molv@ip24-251-142-159.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #openttd 16:17:09 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@212.36.5.170] has quit [Quit: Tvel] 16:27:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B64C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:35:12 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:43:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B64C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:02 <Terkhen> hello 16:51:16 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:57:29 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:57:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:57:32 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:01:00 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:03:36 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:09:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe55a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:11:13 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:13:38 <frosch123> moin 17:17:32 <planetmaker> quak :-) 17:24:00 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-092-078-248-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:24:56 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 17:26:56 * peter1139 shoots the duck 17:38:52 <V453000> moo 17:38:58 <V453000> rage of the zoo 17:45:41 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 17:52:01 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:53:16 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-092-078-248-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:56 *** alandarev [~stink_000@90.200.64.179] has joined #openttd 17:57:04 <alandarev> can I change the name of a town through a server console? 17:57:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@rubberductions.plus.com] has joined #openttd 17:59:27 <V453000> you cant change the name of a town in a multiplayer game 17:59:51 <V453000> only upon town funding 18:00:02 <alandarev> :( 18:03:18 <planetmaker> andythenorth, FISH does not seem to set version and minimum required version for the grf and compatibility purposes? 18:03:41 <andythenorth> hmm 18:03:47 <andythenorth> FISH or new FISH? o_O 18:04:31 <__ln__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22089457 18:04:44 <planetmaker> well. FISH? 18:06:43 <planetmaker> likely the old(er) one. It creates issues with not having the exact same version. Especially for people who test and play with nightly builds 18:07:51 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:09:01 <planetmaker> I'm currently generating the md5sum of every revision of that repo :-P 18:09:25 <andythenorth> oops :( 18:09:33 <planetmaker> takes a bit time with 1k revisions :D 18:09:59 <Rubidium> I'd say try bisecting, but that won't work either ;) 18:10:07 <planetmaker> :-) 18:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> for i in $(seq 1 1000); do hg up -r $i; make; md5sum fish.grf; done; 18:10:34 <planetmaker> ^^ yes. that 18:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause> bisecting hash values would be funny :) 18:11:21 <planetmaker> for i in {50...1000}; do hg up $i; make remake >/dev/null && md5sum fish.grf; done | grep 'fish.grf' > file.txt 18:11:55 <planetmaker> still, that takes time to compile FISH 1000 times :D 18:12:28 <andythenorth> :P 18:12:33 <andythenorth> bundles? 18:12:59 <andythenorth> has the md5 and the grf 18:13:03 <Eddi|zuHause> well, just run it, and sleep over the results 18:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> or parallelize it in "the cloud" :) 18:13:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C9E9.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:13:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes... but we don't keep nightlies forever. Like 3 months or N versions 18:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: only of releases and recent nightlies 18:13:43 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:13:44 <planetmaker> with N around ... <50 or so 18:14:25 <planetmaker> otherwise we'd run out of hdd space in no time 18:14:40 <planetmaker> with all those projects 18:14:57 <planetmaker> releases is a totally different thing :-) 18:15:24 <frosch123> planetmaker: i hope you are using grfid -m :p 18:16:07 <planetmaker> hm.... no :-P 18:16:16 <planetmaker> drat 18:17:04 <planetmaker> problem is: if it's a somewhat recent nightly I won't succeed anyway... different NML -> different md5sum 18:17:11 <planetmaker> thus I won't succeed most likely anyway :S 18:17:23 <frosch123> true :p 18:18:02 <planetmaker> but... I'm still in revisions with NFO files :-P 18:18:07 <frosch123> fis 0.9.2 set a version though 18:18:30 <Rubidium> planetmaker: just try all revisions of NML (and grfcodec) as well 18:18:34 *** xT2 [~ST2@bl6-135-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: On the rocks! ^^] 18:18:38 <andythenorth> sounds fun 18:18:39 <planetmaker> lol 18:18:49 <Rubidium> esp. since the optimisation in grfcodec that got (un)done 18:18:54 <frosch123> planetmaker: do you have a savegame? 18:18:58 <planetmaker> nope 18:19:06 <Rubidium> what's the md5sum? 18:19:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.170.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:19:11 <frosch123> well, what are you searching for actually? :p 18:19:16 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=6054 18:19:23 <Zuu> planetmaker: Why do you need the old md5sums? 18:19:54 <Rubidium> planetmaker: attempt r709 18:20:05 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:20:33 <planetmaker> :D 18:20:39 <planetmaker> now please tell me how you knew :-) 18:20:57 <frosch123> it's in his list 18:21:03 <Rubidium> my crystal ball 18:21:04 <frosch123> just looked there as well :p 18:21:20 <planetmaker> :D 18:21:52 <frosch123> it's amazing how many "M" versions are in that list actually 18:24:38 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-135-216.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 18:31:46 *** ST2 is now known as xT2 18:33:38 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:34:53 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:34:56 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:35:03 <Alberth> o/ 18:35:07 <andythenorth> \o 18:40:15 <Sacro> http://www.bt.dk/sites/default/files-dk/node-images/471/471873-fartkontrol.jpg hehehehe 18:43:39 <planetmaker> o/ 18:49:15 <frosch123> Sacro: did you pass? 18:53:49 <Zuu> Sacro: There is also the sign for "farthinder" - speed bump 18:55:46 <__ln__> Sacro: i don't suppose you know what the number 'six' is in swedish? 18:56:26 <frosch123> __ln__: the same as in south germany? 18:59:23 <__ln__> could be 19:00:04 <frosch123> __ln__: http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/40/7802/43244861/porsche-statt6-1485611422251177260.JPG 19:00:40 <frosch123> "statt" = "instead of" 19:01:54 <Alberth> another new FIRS :o 19:02:08 <frosch123> and another nuts 19:02:18 <frosch123> i wonder though whether firs affects my game 19:02:20 <Sacro> __ln__: I don't speak svdish 19:02:25 <Sacro> bork bork bork 19:02:48 <frosch123> is that scottish or welsh? 19:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> resistance is futile? 19:19:49 <andythenorth> so does FIRS affect your game? o_O 19:24:02 <frosch123> how would i tell? 19:24:05 <frosch123> what did you fix? :p 19:24:30 <frosch123> you only said you changed supplies 19:24:33 <andythenorth> serious defect with supplies 19:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause> usually when andy says "fix" i assume he means "rip it out" 19:27:30 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-153-144.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 19:28:10 <frosch123> V453000: why is nuts 256 MiB? 19:28:15 <frosch123> did you add 32bpp or extrazoom? 19:28:24 <V453000> 256? 19:28:25 <frosch123> *26 MiB 19:28:48 <V453000> mh, I added a lot of recolour sprites for wagons ... will do it through code later 19:29:02 <planetmaker> do you crop sprites? nmlc -c 19:29:19 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD43BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 19:29:37 <V453000> dont know what that does 19:30:03 <V453000> yes 19:30:08 <V453000> idk what it does but yes :D 19:30:10 <planetmaker> cut sprites down to the needed size 19:30:21 <planetmaker> thus avoiding sprites with loads of needless blue 19:30:27 <V453000> myeah but there might be like 30-40k of them atm 19:30:43 <frosch123> planetmaker: but blue is compressed, so i would think it does not affect the filesize much 19:30:52 <V453000> if not even more, I didnt count it 19:31:42 <planetmaker> yes... not much likely. 19:32:39 <frosch123> hmm, hovercat 19:33:03 <frosch123> but yeah, nuts has 108226 sprites 19:33:18 <planetmaker> @calc 26000 / 108226 19:33:18 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 0.240238020439 19:33:24 *** oskari892 [~oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:33:30 <planetmaker> 240 bytes per sprite is not too much really 19:33:57 <planetmaker> hm... 10*24. typical vehicle size :D 19:34:20 <V453000> 70 spritegroups for all wagons, 9 loading stages per spritegroup 19:34:22 <frosch123> 102066 realsprites, 6168 pseudosprites 19:34:26 <V453000> times 12 I think 19:34:58 <planetmaker> that's ... a decent ratio of graphics vs. code :-) 19:35:30 <V453000> HOLY SHIT 19:35:39 <V453000> 60480 separate sprites for all cats 19:35:46 <V453000> 5000 for just ships 19:36:04 <V453000> and before that nuts had about 20 000 plus chameleons I think 19:36:15 <planetmaker> are chameleons gone? 19:36:17 <V453000> jesus christ 19:36:26 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:36:32 <V453000> no it is just another train class with their own wagons 19:36:35 <planetmaker> productive arist :-) 19:37:04 <frosch123> V453000: did you draw them all? or is there some generating involved? 19:37:20 <V453000> draw of course but some are cloned and recoloured 19:37:42 <V453000> for example for the cats it is x12 cloned, 5000 for ships and 5000 for cats 19:37:47 <V453000> but cats are in 12 colour variants 19:38:19 <planetmaker> so... using the recolour sprites you could actually reduce sprite count for those by a factor of 11? 19:38:33 <V453000> yeah 19:38:39 <planetmaker> :D 19:38:46 <V453000> for those it would indeed work as I just recoloured those 19:38:48 <frosch123> planetmaker: i wonder whether nml duplicates some sprites 19:39:12 <planetmaker> frosch123, it might. For instance to get spritesets of equal size when required 19:39:26 <planetmaker> though... they should be empty sprites 19:40:25 <frosch123> well, how did v draw 102066 sprites by hand, in one year? :p 19:40:30 <frosch123> @calc 102066 / 365 19:40:30 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 279.632876712 19:40:36 <Alberth> one at a time? :) 19:40:45 <V453000> as I said, it is reduced a lot by multipliers of some 19:40:46 <frosch123> @calc 102066 / 365 / 8 19:40:46 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 34.954109589 19:41:16 <V453000> but yes I wouldnt say I am slacking :P 19:41:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: everything is still "gung ho", no idea what you changed :p 19:41:52 <frosch123> oh, wait, one just dropped to normal 19:42:07 <andythenorth> so 19:42:13 <V453000> frosch123: how did you count these sprites btw? 19:42:21 <V453000> 108226 19:42:21 <andythenorth> if the industry list was something like arable farm, coal mine, port 19:42:32 <frosch123> grep -c '\*' nuts.nfo 19:42:37 <frosch123> grep -c 'sprites' nuts.nfo 19:42:39 <andythenorth> then coal mine was using trigger values from arable farm, port was using coal mines' 19:42:52 <andythenorth> defines in the wrong order, failing silently :P 19:42:58 <V453000> hm guess not in windoze :P 19:42:58 <andythenorth> CPP :P 19:43:19 <V453000> or does cmd have something similar to grep? 19:45:03 <planetmaker> probably not :D 19:45:11 <planetmaker> though you can install grep on windoze 19:45:22 <V453000> :D 19:45:45 <frosch123> [21:42] <V453000> 108226 <- that number is easy actually, grfcodec numbers the sprites when decoding :p 19:45:52 <Alberth> http://superuser.com/questions/60173/how-to-search-inside-files-on-windows-7 <-- like that? 19:46:19 <Alberth> but having grep standard available is so much more easy :p 19:46:20 <V453000> :o 19:48:00 <frosch123> V453000: anyway, nuts is the first 8bpp normal zoom grf with more graphics than nfo code :) 19:48:10 <frosch123> *that i know 19:48:18 <V453000> :D 19:48:29 <V453000> how many lines of code is it in nfo? 19:48:42 <V453000> my nml source has 60k 19:48:49 <frosch123> with default line wrapping? 19:49:24 <V453000> idk I have some gaps there 19:49:28 <V453000> also what is line wrapping :D 19:51:47 <frosch123> hmm, paste.openttdcoop.org does not allow pasting 7.6 MiB :p 19:52:15 <frosch123> anyway, number of sprites is also about number of lines 19:52:31 <frosch123> 112829 with default line wrapping of grfcodec 19:52:46 <V453000> sane 19:53:09 <V453000> mygod :) 19:53:18 <Zuu> <Alberth> but having grep standard available is so much more easy :p <--- true, but cygwin with grep and a few other utilities goes right after vim on my priority list of things to first install on a windows computer :-) 19:53:19 <V453000> onwards to half a million sprites! :D 19:54:01 <Alberth> Zuu: just install Linux instead :D 19:54:12 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> solenoid.oftc.net quits: +michi_cc, eQualizer, Xaroth, ToBeFree, stuf, plantain, tokai|mdlx, molv, Osai, Fira, (+9 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:54:19 *** Netsplit over, joins: molv, tokai|mdlx, HellTiger, Devroush, eQualizer, zeknurn, Rubidium, CornishPasty, +michi_cc, shametd_ (+9 more) 19:54:38 *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 19:54:38 <Zuu> Alberth: I have two linux VMs on this windows comptuer. :-) 19:55:31 <Alberth> I have 10 windows displayed at this Linux computer :p 19:55:41 <Zuu> :-) 19:55:49 <frosch123> Alberth: no fan of tabs? 19:56:17 <Alberth> with 6 desktops? who needs tabs? :) 19:57:01 <frosch123> i don't like desktop switching. it feels too rough to me 19:57:22 <frosch123> i always have to configure windows to display on all desktops and such 19:57:48 <frosch123> so i prefer one browser, one chat, one editor and one console window 19:58:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth, what does the cidre mill do, production-wise? 19:58:10 <frosch123> each with tabs, so i can switch them independently 19:58:13 <planetmaker> convert fruits to cidre? 19:58:37 <planetmaker> And what's the German translation for "cider mill"? :D 19:59:09 <Zuu> I sometimes miss multiple desktops in Windows, but I have yet to come across a implemenattion that works flawless enough to be worth using. 19:59:53 <frosch123> planetmaker: i think it's just "Kelterei" 19:59:53 <__ln__> germans don't know what cider is 20:00:09 <frosch123> __ln__: Àppelvoi 20:00:21 <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/1.0.1/docs/html/industries.html#brewery 20:00:39 <planetmaker> :-) 20:00:41 <planetmaker> ty 20:00:41 <andythenorth> I am planning to add more detail to show how production varies in each economy 20:00:42 <Zuu> frosch123: Even if its a cider made on other fruites than apple? 20:00:46 <andythenorth> but later... 20:01:04 <planetmaker> I think the definition of Cider is 'made from apples' 20:01:14 <__ln__> or pears 20:01:27 <Zuu> or .. <insert some other fruit> 20:01:31 <frosch123> Zuu: with other fruits it might be "Likör", though i am not sure. maybe there is a technical difference 20:01:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I still have a problem: I don't know's the name for it in German. frosch123, any suggestion? 20:01:51 <Zuu> Likör I would say is stronger than cider. 20:02:00 <planetmaker> "Weingut" trifft's nicht 20:02:09 <__ln__> Zuu: i think the <other fruit> flavors contain either apple or pear as well, otherwise it isn't cider by definition 20:02:37 <frosch123> Zuu: yeah, likely liqeur is distilled cider 20:02:40 <Zuu> __ln__: they usually contain apple to 50 % or more if not else because its cheaper. 20:03:46 <frosch123> planetmaker: "Mosterei" is apparently a word 20:04:25 <frosch123> planetmaker: "Mosterei" or "Kelterei" 20:04:33 <Zuu> Eg. Gooseberry cider is quite common here. But yes, it is probabably more apple than gooseberry and then just made to taste gooseberry. 20:04:48 <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apfelwein 20:04:50 <frosch123> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosterei 20:05:06 <frosch123> andythenorth: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstwein 20:05:16 <frosch123> your link is only apple 20:05:28 <planetmaker> hm... Mosterei makes juice. Not cider, no? 20:05:42 <andythenorth> proper cider is apples only :P 20:05:48 <frosch123> planetmaker: a mosterei makes most, which is cider 20:05:52 <andythenorth> that's why it's supplied by an orchard 20:05:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth, the German version of that is what I consulted... without getting more of an idea :D 20:06:06 <andythenorth> where I live, orchards grow apples only, not other new-fangled fruit 20:06:31 <frosch123> planetmaker: oh, "most" is regional :p it might also be juice :p 20:06:32 <planetmaker> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_%28Getr%C3%A4nk%29 20:06:39 <planetmaker> :-) 20:06:43 <Alberth> iirc I translated it to "fruit beer" 20:07:09 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cider#West_of_England 20:07:58 <planetmaker> Alberth, rather wine then, I think... 20:08:02 <planetmaker> hm :D 20:08:05 <planetmaker> Bionade :-P 20:08:30 <planetmaker> I'll keep it as "Cider-Brauerei" 20:08:37 <frosch123> planetmaker: oh, the proper word is "Kelterhaus" 20:08:40 <frosch123> not Kelterei :p 20:08:41 <Alberth> would be fine, andy doesn't demand a literal translation, just something that could come from an industry as depicted 20:08:52 <frosch123> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelter 20:09:55 <planetmaker> but... isn't "keltern" (also) defined as "making juice"? 20:10:01 <frosch123> both :) 20:10:12 <frosch123> but yeah, maybe just name it "Brennerei" :) 20:10:17 <planetmaker> especially of grapes 20:10:23 <frosch123> and make it produce Likör instead :) 20:10:30 <frosch123> tastes better anyway 20:10:39 <frosch123> who drinks eppelvoi? 20:11:06 <Alberth> important point for an industry set to have tasty products :) 20:11:54 <frosch123> hazelnut liqueur is the only hazelnut product, which i do not react allergic to :) 20:12:03 <V453000> :D 20:12:15 <V453000> frosch is allergic to nuts 20:12:18 <planetmaker> lool :D 20:12:21 <frosch123> though i first had to figure out that you could produce liqueur from hazelnuts 20:12:29 <frosch123> V453000: only hazel 20:12:34 <V453000> fair enough 20:13:35 <planetmaker> hm, did you eat of the r25k cake? Or did I put almond in it? 20:13:43 <frosch123> it was almond 20:13:46 <planetmaker> :-) 20:14:07 <frosch123> and there is no danger in me accidentially eating stuff with hazelnut 20:14:07 <Zuu> According to swedish wikipedia, the only requirement for something to be called Cider here is: 1) the alochol comes from apples or pears. 2) at least 15% of the cider should be based on fruit juice. 20:14:12 <frosch123> i can smell it from 30 cm distance 20:14:16 <planetmaker> :D 20:15:53 <Zuu> planetmaker: have you made a r25k cake? 20:16:44 <planetmaker> ups... 20k 20:16:47 <planetmaker> :-) 20:16:55 <Zuu> ah :-) 20:17:19 <frosch123> [22:12] <V453000> frosch is allergic to nuts <- oh, damn, i did not get that reference :o 20:18:09 <planetmaker> :D 20:20:20 <planetmaker> General store... = Laden? 20:20:26 <planetmaker> or more specific? 20:20:55 <frosch123> let's see what it looks like 20:21:27 <planetmaker> yeah... "Laden" is fine 20:21:58 <andythenorth> I want to connect the docs and the translator :P 20:22:02 <andythenorth> 'translate this' 20:22:10 <frosch123> which economy has a general store? 20:22:46 <planetmaker> that'd be over-engineered, andythenorth ;-) 20:22:54 <Rubidium> frosch123: the general one? 20:23:05 <frosch123> basic temp hat it, firs did not have it 20:23:24 <frosch123> planetmaker: maybe "Kaufladen" 20:23:46 <planetmaker> I had that actually first. Somehow I don't like it as much as just "Laden" 20:23:46 <frosch123> "Laden" sounds weird for a specific thing 20:23:49 <planetmaker> :D 20:24:04 <frosch123> well, it has some child game taste :) 20:24:47 <Zuu> andythenorth: regarding translator, have you came anywhere on the web translator for NewGRFs? 20:25:41 <planetmaker> Zuu, checkout eints project on devzone 20:25:51 <planetmaker> it's awesome tbh 20:26:07 <Zuu> If the tutorial ever is going to be translated (a huge task), it would need something to keep track of subsequent changes in english.txt and which strings in the translations that needs to be updated etc. 20:26:34 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/eints 20:26:49 * andythenorth bed 20:26:50 <andythenorth> bye 20:26:53 <planetmaker> apropros eints... 20:26:55 <planetmaker> bye andythenorth 20:26:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@rubberductions.plus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:27:04 <frosch123> Zuu: afaik ammler set up a new virtual server on devzone for eints 20:27:05 <Alberth> Zuu: it needs an interface to Red Mine 20:27:13 <planetmaker> ... Alberth , any thought on http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5399 20:27:25 <frosch123> so, it feels like it is approaching production stage :) 20:29:05 <Alberth> planetmaker: feels like the 'translations' page of a language :p http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/LATEST/translations/dutch.html#report_281 20:29:27 <planetmaker> :-D 20:29:54 <Alberth> frosch123: for some values of 'workable' it is, there is a lot of room for improvements 20:30:07 <planetmaker> I guess it's a matter of "close. Implemented" :D 20:30:38 <Alberth> planetmaker: well, eints doesn't show it 20:30:50 <planetmaker> but yes, like that. Sorry, I didn't check. But I was annoyed when I recently needed to verify translations for OpenTTD itself 20:30:53 <Alberth> and I somewhat wonder how many people will understand it 20:31:15 <planetmaker> uhm... I think that's intuitive 20:31:23 <Alberth> planetmaker: how did you think I came up with that solution? :) 20:31:27 <planetmaker> especially as it says 'current source' and 'old source' 20:31:35 <planetmaker> tehehe 20:32:03 <Alberth> the data is available, that's no problem 20:32:15 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:32:41 <Alberth> I was wondering about the new translator format though, where would you leave "similar translations" in such a file? 20:33:06 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:10 <planetmaker> having it shown similar to what you just linked is very helpful IMHO 20:33:28 <planetmaker> what do you mean with your last question, can you elaborate? 20:33:48 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 20:33:49 <Alberth> I mean that set of other strings that is displayed in WT 20:34:15 <Alberth> or "related strings" or whatever it is called 20:34:21 <planetmaker> ah, ok 20:34:48 <Alberth> ie the new format would currently only contain strings that need to be worked on 20:34:51 <planetmaker> not sure they need to be "left" anywhere, but you could just get them by means of grep from the current file 20:35:09 <planetmaker> that's afaik about what WT does, too 20:35:29 <planetmaker> not sure how the choice on the search phrases is done, though 20:35:32 <planetmaker> that's tricky 20:35:36 <Alberth> that would imply a translator needs to download a copy of the language file of his language as well 20:35:51 <Alberth> I am sure someone could tell us :) 20:36:01 <planetmaker> yes... but eints does have that, no? 20:36:16 <planetmaker> the translator itself does not need that, if eints makes a choice 20:36:41 <Alberth> sure, but it defeats the point of the translator file format somewhat 20:36:52 <Alberth> s/point/advantage/ 20:37:39 * Alberth is thinking about off-line translation options 20:37:59 <planetmaker> for that you don't need it. Or you provide (additionally) the whole file 20:38:14 <planetmaker> as reference 20:38:39 <Alberth> that seems the best solution so far 20:41:19 <frosch123> hmm, would it be clever to not use string ids (STR_xxx) for off-line translations, but instead the original string as key value? 20:41:36 <frosch123> then you would only import translations for which the original string did not change 20:41:38 <frosch123> meanwhile 20:42:15 <frosch123> hmm, or add a revision to the string id? 20:43:13 <frosch123> STR_IND_LUMBER_YARD@2128 :Houtwerkplaats 20:44:45 <Alberth> I think it should give 3 ini-like lines: source text, current translation, and an empty new translation 20:45:20 <frosch123> that sounds like gnu gettext po files :) 20:45:48 <frosch123> they also contain keywords like "fuzzy" 20:45:56 <frosch123> when the original string changed 20:46:38 <Alberth> add a new translation into the latter line, and send it back; eints verifies that you translated the current string, and were not beaten by another translator 20:46:48 <Alberth> I call that 'outdated' :) 20:46:58 <planetmaker> what's the policy on conflicting translations for the same thing? :-) 20:47:03 <planetmaker> if another was faster? 20:47:30 <frosch123> you could also put the export revision at the top of the file 20:47:47 <Alberth> then it rejects your translation saying it is old, and gives you a new set of strings 20:48:37 <Alberth> or at least it should do that :) 20:49:04 <Alberth> with just language files, you don't have connections between base language and translation texts 21:08:34 <frosch123> night 21:08:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe55a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:09 *** Ristovski_ [~rafael@78.157.7.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:48 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:30:17 *** sla_ro|master [~slamaster@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: connection reset by myself] 21:36:07 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:27 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:12:28 *** alandarev [~stink_000@90.200.64.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:31:03 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-152-246-224.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:43:23 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:44:36 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:51:09 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:53:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD43BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:54:15 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d857da2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 22:58:42 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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