Config
Log for #openttd on 20th April 2013:
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04:05:21  <csc> oh hello there
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05:50:12  <kasper> Howdy
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06:01:48  <csc> well was going to say hello but yeah..
06:02:15  <planetmaker> moin
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06:05:26  <csc`> 'lo planetmaker
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07:13:14  <dimes> i did some searching but couldnt find the answer i wanted
07:13:29  <csc`> what?
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07:21:39  <LordAro> moin
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07:38:15  <cSc> 'lo LordAro
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07:43:35  <Wolf01> hello o/
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07:45:19  <cSc> 'lo Wolf01
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08:37:40  <cSc> Interesting.
08:37:51  <cSc> I wonder how the palm pre handled OpenTTD
08:37:54  *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
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08:38:12  <cSc> 'lo Alberth
08:38:21  <Alberth> o/
08:38:26  <Wolf01> o/
08:40:02  <cSc> i quite fail at it, but for some reason i can't seem to stop playing openttd after doing the tutorial
08:40:39  <Alberth> that's a known shortcoming of the game, it's too addictive :)
08:40:49  <Alberth> it will wear off in a couple of years :D
08:41:07  <cSc> meh
08:41:19  <Wolf01> maybe three
08:41:28  <cSc> even the outdated touchpad version is still addictive, albeit somewhat unplayable
08:43:37  <cSc> Alberth, was I seeing incorrectly or did 'Sluthill' make it into the random town namefile?
08:44:02  <Alberth> lol
08:45:02  <Alberth> random town names are just fragments that get concatenated, sometmes to funny and weird combinations
08:45:28  <Alberth> there are also townname grfs that have a simple list of names
08:47:20  <Alberth> I don't even know what the default game actually does with its names
08:47:35  <Alberth> I guess it's a list of fragments of english town names
08:47:51  <cSc> yeah i think it was 1.1.2 or whichever is in ubuntu 12.10
08:48:08  <cSc> but it generated 'New Sluthill' or something like that. Whichever it was, it had sluthill in it
08:48:08  <cSc> lol
08:48:58  <Alberth> town name generation has not changed for years
08:50:03  <Alberth> I remember seeing some posts about weird town names, but they are mostly just random posts
08:53:25  <cSc> Is it possible to use some sort of AI script to manage some things?
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08:54:03  <Alberth> not an AI, an AI is like a normal player, but computer controlled
08:54:32  <Alberth> you may want to look at game scripts, which exist to "rule" the world for all players
08:55:01  <cSc> dont see any available ones to do what im talking about
08:55:02  <cSc> :(
08:55:21  <Alberth> you mean a script to help you?
08:55:42  <Alberth> no, those don't exist to keep the playing field level in multi-player games
08:56:06  <Alberth> what kind of problem do you have?
08:56:29  <cSc> lack of asian micromanagement skills
08:56:30  <Alberth> openttd has lots of somewhat hidden features to make your life easier
08:57:22  <Alberth> for example??
08:58:34  <cSc> just seems like there's way too much to manage with multiple towns
08:59:06  <cSc> also saw a 'repair vehicles' feature but couldn't figure out how to use it
08:59:12  <cSc> or replace, rather
08:59:38  <Alberth> yes, that one is a bit tricky :)
09:00:29  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Autoreplace#Autoreplace  <-- thins one :)
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09:01:09  <Alberth> where are you stuck?
09:02:15  <cSc> dunno
09:02:27  <cSc> my road transportation got too complicated and failed due to oldness
09:02:40  <cSc> but was apparently profitable
09:02:43  <Alberth> that's autorenew
09:03:14  <Alberth> ie buy a new instance of the same model = renew, buy a new instance of a different model = replace
09:03:34  <juzza1> how long is one engine tick in OTTD? is it the same as regular tick (30ms)?
09:03:53  <Alberth> juzza1: It's in the FAQ somewhere
09:04:29  <Alberth> 'length of a day' or so
09:05:23  <juzza1> yeah thats the regular tick, but there is also a reference to an "engine tick" in the sound effect callbacks
09:05:36  <juzza1> and i didnt find any info in the faq about engine tick
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09:10:09  <Alberth> sorry, no idea then
09:11:27  <cSc> and i just figured out possibly the most useful feature in the game
09:11:34  <cSc> shared cloning
09:13:10  <Alberth> :)
09:21:59  <cSc> trying not to hemorrhage cash and attack subsidies is quite hard =\
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09:22:22  <LordAro> moin all (again)
09:22:47  <Wolf01> hello lord
09:23:04  <LordAro> hi Tungsten :P
09:23:14  <Wolf01> :>
09:23:14  <LordAro> (yes, i read the logs)
09:23:32  <LordAro> don't judge me
09:23:36  <LordAro> :3
09:28:55  <cSc> any strategies for not overwhelming yourself with the massive micromanagement tasks in openttd?
09:29:06  <Wolf01> don't micromanage
09:29:36  <Alberth> it's not worth the trouble, you make enough money without micro managing everything
09:29:55  <Alberth> Hi Lord Aro
09:30:28  <LordAro> hai Alberth
09:30:52  <LordAro> you realise you won't highlight me if you put a space between the words, right? :P
09:30:55  <Wolf01> just buy 2 airports on distant cities and purchase some airplanes... you could then enjoy building other things and try out features, until a plane crash :P
09:31:08  <Wolf01> *just build
09:31:27  <LordAro> Surely you should build 3 airports then? :)
09:31:43  <cSc> Wolf01, i found that road vehicles are more profitable in the long run
09:31:58  <cSc> airports tend to fail after three years
09:32:18  <LordAro> 9+ years of other poeple playing would suggest otherwise
09:32:25  <cSc> while the road vehicle transport lasted longer than the vehicles as terms of profitability
09:32:27  <Alberth> LordAro: yes
09:32:37  <LordAro> :P
09:32:55  <Wolf01> I could purchase an entire new train for every delivery of an aircraft after just 6 months of game
09:33:02  <Alberth> but I assume you read it at your convenience, no need to draw your attention to it
09:33:18  <LordAro> ok, Albert h :P
09:33:26  <LordAro> (i'll stop now)
09:33:28  <cSc> Wolf01, i found the trains to be unreliable :(
09:33:37  <cSc> and difficult to create properly
09:33:38  <Alberth> bye LordAro :p
09:33:41  <Wolf01> but trains are the fun part :D
09:33:58  <Alberth> cSc: build more depots :)
09:34:02  <Wolf01> massive stations and 8 way junctions
09:34:16  <Alberth> or cheat by turning off breakdowns :(
09:34:38  <cSc> yeah the breakdowns was what hit profitability
09:34:41  <cSc> in the beginning i see that road transit is key
09:34:56  <cSc> atleast for a basic reliable income long term
09:35:09  <Alberth> cSc: with breakdowns enabled, buying reliable engines is THE key
09:35:25  <cSc> i did
09:35:36  <Alberth> nope, trains are way more profitable than trucks
09:35:42  <cSc> profitable yes
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09:35:57  <cSc> reliable and sustainable? not in the beginning imo
09:35:57  <Wolf01> I don't care about my trains, some of them make something like 1M of loss a year, and the next year they make 10M income, just because the route is long and they take more than one year to deliver and come back
09:36:18  <LordAro> realism :P
09:36:39  <cSc> im making about 30k sustained from my road transit
09:36:43  <Wolf01> I tried to fix it, ad you well know it :(
09:36:57  <cSc> just from one mail route and four public transit systems
09:37:32  <Alberth> hmm, perhaps you carried the wrong cargo?
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09:38:39  <cSc> linked every industry available on the map
09:38:41  <cSc> :|
09:38:53  <cSc> just on one rail
09:38:56  <cSc> which was the issue
09:38:57  <Wolf01> don't use trains for mail/passenger service until you have big cities, build a route between a coal mine and a power plant which are at least at "one screen" of distance, then you will see how much trains are profitable ;)
09:39:12  <cSc> but multiple raillines i found tedious to create
09:39:21  <cSc> not to mention require massive space
09:39:37  <Alberth> you need signals :)
09:39:55  <cSc> ...that...was not covered in the tutorial
09:40:02  <cSc> nor were rail systems
09:40:58  <cSc> the tutorial in reference is the scenario available via the online content
09:41:49  <LordAro> a missing feature :)
09:42:07  <LordAro> http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals should help
09:43:26  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial/Trains   simple straightforward building  http://wiki.openttd.org/Tutorial/Two_Platforms  multiple trains sharing the tracks
09:43:48  <Alberth> and just use one way path signals for everything
09:44:02  <cSc> x_x
09:44:10  <cSc> as if managing a road transit system was hard enough
09:44:17  * cSc glares at the wiki article
09:44:36  <Alberth> you have to do something for the next three years :p
09:45:22  <Alberth> at the bottom of that Signals page, there are a few other tutorials that several people consider very good
09:46:01  <Alberth> but often they try to explain all signal types, while imho, for starting you should just stick to one.
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09:47:33  <cSc> so basically just go with an outbound/inbound track system
09:47:44  <Alberth> unfortunately, much of the wiki is for intermediate to advanced, there is little material for beginners
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09:49:22  <Alberth> if you post a save game, and ask for help, you will get feedback on things you can change or improve
09:49:25  <cSc> hence why i played openttd and was like "...screw this."
09:50:10  <Alberth> alternatively, look at what other people do in the scenario and savegame section of the forum
09:50:34  <cSc> im just doing new and random
09:50:41  <cSc> but this time im not using fast forward
09:50:47  <LordAro> probably most people who play OTTD now used to play Transport Tycoon, back in the day
09:50:47  <cSc> just kinda chillaxing
09:50:58  <cSc> LordAro, never played it. ;p
09:51:06  <Alberth> one problem is that most people here fall in the "advanced category", which makes it hard to make material that is understandable by new users
09:51:10  <LordAro> i had guessed as much :P
09:51:34  <Alberth> trying random things is a good way to discover how it works
09:51:58  <cSc> while you were playing the original transport tycoon
09:52:15  <cSc> i was probably having a blast in simant
09:52:47  * LordAro has not heard of simant
09:58:36  <Alberth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimAnt   :)
09:58:54  <Alberth> never played it, it looked too much like simcity :)
09:59:05  <LordAro> thanks for doing the research for me :)
09:59:23  <Tulitomaatti> ebin simant
10:00:30  <LordAro> hmm, y'know, i think i might actually have heard of that
10:04:14  <Wolf01> anyone playing with minecraft 13w16a? it's me or skeletons disappeared from the game? (playing on normal)
10:05:47  <cSc> dont think they have
10:05:48  <cSc> perhaps its a bug
10:05:55  <cSc> i dont play weeklies
10:05:59  <LordAro> Wolf01: i have not played it personally, but i have not seen any reports of that being the case
10:06:11  <cSc> Alberth, its an interesting game to say the least. Simant that is
10:07:02  <LordAro> minecraft's fairly interesting too :)
10:07:30  <Alberth> if only one could get paid to play games all day :p
10:07:40  <cSc> runs like crap on this laptop though
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10:19:53  <cSc> Alberth, curious, what are the most notable features between 1.2 and 1.3?
10:19:59  <cSc> if you're bored enough to enumerate
10:20:03  <Wolf01> oh, a skeleton, finally
10:20:47  <LordAro> http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_1.3.0 <-- i think thats the right link
10:20:54  <cSc> Wolf01, you do know how entities work in minecraft, right? if the maximum available number of entities is spawned, it will not spawn new ones until the others despawn
10:21:05  <cSc> you could end up with 30 creepers
10:21:22  <LordAro> Wolf01: you probably just got (un)lucky
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10:23:17  <cSc> LordAro, in other words, nothing but bugfixes and features i probably will never find :P?
10:23:33  <Wolf01> I think this is related to the new "region difficulty" changes, usually I can't exit from my house at night because of skeletons (last game I found also 2 spider jockeys at once), this time there are 3 or 4 zombies, 2 creepers, one spider, and I'm playing for 2 hours so far
10:23:54  <Alberth> cSc: http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable  <-- click 'changelog' there :)
10:24:11  <Alberth> I never play with stables, so I don't really know
10:24:34  <cSc> Alberth, thats where i got the current build from
10:24:46  <cSc> slow ubuntu is slow.
10:24:48  <cSc> haven't even changed their countdown page yet
10:25:04  <cSc> and iirc Raging Racehorse is out in a few weeks
10:25:17  <cSc> or whatever animal they've decided on
10:25:39  <Alberth> ubuntu is based on debian, and debian is not a distribution using bleeding edge software
10:26:17  <cSc> 12.10 uses 1.2.1
10:26:17  <cSc> heh
10:26:43  <cSc> 13.04 will use 1.3
10:27:20  <Rubidium> cSc: will it?
10:27:25  <Rubidium> based on what?
10:27:44  <cSc> Rubidium, based on their repository
10:28:06  <cSc> whenever i find that something is outdated i google the distro and version in question
10:28:14  <cSc> the next version of *buntu will have 1.3 in the repos
10:28:22  <Rubidium> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/openttd says 1.2.3
10:28:43  <Rubidium> there is a wishlist bug to update to 1.3.0, but that's arguably not going to happen
10:28:45  * cSc shrugs
10:28:53  <cSc> could've sworn it said 1.3
10:29:06  <cSc> but then again i was confused with revision numbers
10:29:31  <Rubidium> but then... Ubuntu is weird; an AI is trunk of OpenTTD?!?
10:29:50  <Eddi|zuHause> HOW DARE YOU! YOU HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR RELEASE SCHEDULE TO FIT UBUNTU'S DEADLINES
10:30:15  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 3 weeks should be more than enough to package something
10:30:43  <Eddi|zuHause> not if it's already on freeze :)
10:30:44  <Rubidium> also, April fits very well with the .10 cycles
10:32:23  <cSc> really wish the webos port was updated :(
10:32:24  <cSc> 1.1 seems so old
10:32:38  <Rubidium> mid june they'll stop importing stuff from Debian, which'd be the first or second bugfix releas of a stable cycle which is arguably better than the first one
10:33:24  <cSc> i could probably build it myself
10:33:25  <cSc> but meh
10:33:36  <cSc> too damn lazy and not enough space for the wdk
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11:39:05  <Wolf01> I called the skeletons, eh...
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12:04:54  <Alberth> quak
12:05:44  <Wolf01> moin frosch123
12:06:15  <frosch123> quak )
12:07:19  <V453000> mu
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16:55:40  <LordAro> dang internets
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19:27:25  <cSc> bah
19:27:44  <cSc> road system still chugging, single train profit died within 5 years
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19:55:57  <andythenorth> meh
19:56:12  * andythenorth is back on a 5400rpm spinning drive after 12 months of SSD
19:56:24  <andythenorth> it's like getting into economy class after club class :(
19:57:34  <cSc> andythenorth, failed on you?
19:57:41  <andythenorth> yup
19:58:00  <Rubidium> andythenorth: join TB's club
19:58:01  <andythenorth> bought a new one, stupid mac won't see it
19:58:05  <cSc> andythenorth, seen hybrids yet?
19:58:17  <andythenorth> I expected it to fail at some point
19:58:47  <andythenorth> stupid thing
19:59:06  <glx> failure is not progressive on SSD ?
19:59:12  <andythenorth> yes it is
19:59:30  <andythenorth> in a disk test, it will now only do sequential read or write around 2MB/s
19:59:37  <andythenorth> my spinning drive does about 40MB/s
19:59:48  <andythenorth> but....stupidly it will still do 1GB/s random read / write
19:59:59  <andythenorth> (the SSD)
20:00:14  <andythenorth> assuming it doesn't lie
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20:06:25  <andythenorth> any ottd chat?
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20:07:10  <Rubidium> what's that?
20:09:18  <cSc> andythenorth, look into a hybrid next time.
20:09:54  <andythenorth> Rubidium: it's a game
20:09:59  <andythenorth> needs some work though
20:10:01  <andythenorth> not done yet
20:10:15  <Rubidium> sounds like a boring thing
20:10:17  <andythenorth> strictly o/t here though
20:10:36  <andythenorth> just some dumb train sim
20:10:55  <Rubidium> hope it's not better than simsig
20:17:12  <cSc> i heard it sucked more than truck simulator 2013
20:19:23  <Supercheese> SimSig? is that a police training program or something? :P
20:20:36  <andythenorth> are forums gone away?
20:21:08  <cSc> the game sucked so bad that EA came and joined the forums. Everyone left.
20:21:17  <Rubidium> andythenorth: it's not away or awry for me
20:25:05  <andythenorth> just me then :P
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22:17:43  <frosch123> night
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23:05:39  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:24:04  <Supercheese> Any vehicle variables to detect whether the vehicle is above or below the snowline?
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23:25:35  <Supercheese> Or, roughly equivalently, a variable that reports vehicle height (for non-aircraft)?
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23:27:43  <Supercheese> Vehicle array offset 1E claims to store "Z location (altitude)"
23:31:33  <Supercheese> testing...
23:42:59  <Supercheese> Works as expected, that variable (divided by 8) seems to report vehicle height
23:43:11  <Supercheese> Why 8) is an emoticon is beyond me
23:43:37  <Supercheese> 1E ÷ 8 = height
23:49:08  <planetmaker> I would expect it to report differently in grf v7 and grf v8
23:55:09  <Eddi|zuHause> vehicles can have sub-height-positions
23:55:21  <Eddi|zuHause> thus i don't think this one was changed in grfv8
23:56:07  <Supercheese> Yeah, sub-heights would be useful in some instances I suppose
23:57:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i think some russian (bus?) set shows sloped vehicles

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