Log for #openttd on 27th April 2013:
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06:42:20  <planetmaker> good morning
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08:19:31  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:21:24  <planetmaker> moin Terkhen
08:22:15  <Alberth> o/
08:22:25  <planetmaker> hola Alberth :-)
08:26:41  <NGC3982> Can i set a new password for a player, via console?
08:26:48  <planetmaker> no
08:26:50  <NGC3982> As a server administrator, that is.
08:26:51  <NGC3982> Ok.
08:26:54  <planetmaker> but you can move him into the company
08:27:00  <planetmaker> and then he can set himself
08:27:13  <planetmaker> or you can move into that company and set it
08:28:18  <NGC3982> Oh, the latter seems right for me. I forgot my own company password..
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09:07:00  <Wolf01> hello
09:09:25  <Alberth> moin
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09:57:58  <Wolf01> hi frosch123
09:58:18  <Alberth> o/
09:58:34  <NGC3982> _o
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10:16:31  <frosch123> moin
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10:22:54  <TheBix> net split?
10:22:54  <ZxBiohazardZx> nah more then that
10:23:15  <TheBix> ZxBiohazardZx, hey how come my train keeps entering the depot and won't drive past it?
10:23:42  <TheBix> is there something im missing that isn't in the tutorial?
10:23:42  <LANJesus> SIGNALS
10:24:39  <TheBix> LANJesus, this wasn't mentioned in the tutorials
10:26:22  <TheBix> LANJesus, also theres a video on the tutorial page that shows a train driving past the depot just fine
10:26:31  <TheBix> so theres something im missing or a bug
10:27:14  <planetmaker> electic engine with an unelectrified piece of track ahead?
10:27:22  <planetmaker> thus that it has no path?
10:31:08  <NGC3982> TheBix: Please contribute with a screenshot.
10:31:08  <TheBix> NGC3982,
10:31:08  <TheBix> as you can see, it says its headed for the woods station but it has entered the depot
10:31:08  <TheBix> when it leaves the depot it heads back to the mines station and repeats the cycle and never reaches the woods station
10:31:08  <NGC3982> TheBix: You have a missing tile.
10:31:08  <TheBix> NGC3982, oh wow, silly me
10:31:08  <NGC3982>
10:31:08  <NGC3982> A tip: When having issues like this, using the transparency buttons to navigate between levels of sight always help.
10:31:08  <TheBix> ah, where are those?
10:31:08  <TheBix> the tutorials said that right clicking on buttons provides a description but this hasn't worked for me
10:31:08  <TheBix> version 1.3.0 btw
10:31:33  <NGC3982> TheBix: Yes, click the big gear button right next to the double-speed arrow in the gameplay menu.
10:32:00  <NGC3982> In the list, you will find transparency options (hotkey ctrl+X).
10:34:08  <planetmaker> By default, TheBix , the tooltip appears by hovering over the buttons
10:34:19  <planetmaker> you can change it to right click in the adv. settings
10:36:07  <NGC3982> TheBix: Excuse the swedish translation, but you should be able to navigate with this:
10:36:07  <TheBix> NGC3982, thank you
10:38:07  <NGC3982> Speaking of, i have been starting to feel the tree transparency to be a kind of cheat.
10:38:34  <planetmaker> town sizes and vehicles are a cheat ;-)
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10:39:34  <NGC3982> It feels more real having to track down track errors manually, for some reason.
10:40:00  <planetmaker> how does that relate to transparency?
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10:40:40  <Alberth> he wants to walk in the forest, inspecting all tracks
10:41:13  <ZxBiohazardZx> TheBix most likely servicing or tracklayout errors
10:41:33  <ZxBiohazardZx> ow nvm you miss a tile
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10:48:34  <NGC3982> The fences are a good giveaway.
10:48:59  <Wolf01> stardock fences?
10:49:19  <ZxBiohazardZx> blegh splits suck?
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10:50:31  <ToBeFree> split resistance, obviously
10:53:57  <Sacro> By the Split!
10:56:25  <NGC3982> Wolf01: I read "< Wolf01> stargate fences?"
10:57:00  <Wolf01> :)
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12:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause> gnah, why must the next saveload version be something evil-ish like "introduce the engine pool" :/
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12:45:47  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: because you're living way too much in the past?
12:46:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the game is only in 1942 :p
12:47:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but this old paxdest patch really is unplayable
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13:47:45  <oskari89> Regearing cargo, which industry sets it disables?
13:47:52  <oskari89> FIRS, ECS?
13:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause> ECS has trouble if regearing is activated afterwards
13:52:36  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise i have no experience with regearing
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14:06:21  <NGC3982> Uhm, do any of you have an idea on how fast oil and diesel can be shipped in Sweden, by train?
14:06:53  <NGC3982> I am unaware of cargo specific speed limits.
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14:24:24  <Eddi|zuHause> moving liquids is always a bit tricky, if the tank is not entirely full
14:24:52  <NGC3982> Yes, i got in touch with a few friends that work on the railway
14:25:03  <NGC3982> And it does not seem to exist any cargo specific limits
14:25:31  <NGC3982> Although, 110-120km/h seems to be a normal maximum speed around here.
14:25:31  <Eddi|zuHause> there are physical forces and electrostatics to be considered
14:26:05  <Eddi|zuHause> but i guess the problem is acceleration more than actual speed
14:26:23  <NGC3982> And trying to stop, i guess.
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14:28:35  <Alberth> that could be considered negative acceleration :p
14:28:41  <NGC3982> Yey.
14:29:50  <Alberth> I would expect that wagons are designed such that no nasty things happen no matter what the train driver tries
14:30:09  <Alberth> otherwise, people may get upset with them
14:30:13  <NGC3982> Yes.
14:30:24  <Alberth> (them = the wagon designers)
14:31:06  <NGC3982> I have a few train driver friends that helped me out with this on Facebook, and it seems like they do not approve of the Swedish speed limit regulations for radioactive material
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14:32:08  <NGC3982> It seems like you cannot ship it by train over a certain speed (by law), but at the same time, they say that the carts containing radioactive material are much more protected than a normal tanker wagon.
14:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause> wait, your radioactive trains manage anything other than walking speed?
14:32:12  <Alberth> depends on who make that limit
14:33:04  <NGC3982> I guess regulations make uranium carrying carts virtually indestructable in comparison to a diesel tanker wagon
14:33:10  * NGC3982 shrugs.
14:33:16  <NGC3982> wagons*
14:33:20  <Alberth> I would hope so :)
14:33:47  <Alberth> if some politician invented that law, it is likely not based on technical concerns :)
14:33:48  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't remeber lots of people trying to stop a diesel tanker train :p
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14:34:31  <NGC3982> Alberth: Yeah..
14:34:48  <NGC3982> Trying to stop it does not seem to be the reason for the regulations
14:34:51  <NGC3982> But safety
14:34:58  <NGC3982> And i don't really follow
14:35:34  <Alberth> well, politicians don't follow logic
14:35:48  <Eddi|zuHause> most of the cost of shipping radioactive containers over here is police force fending off protesters
14:35:54  <NGC3982> Yeah, i guess so.
14:36:22  <Alberth> if they used logic, their decisions might be understandable :)
14:36:33  <NGC3982> I understand having a low speed limit on radioactive material, but i do not understand why you at the same time can drive hundreds of tonnes of diesel in five times the speed.
14:36:45  <NGC3982> Though, i have noticed something strange with 1.3.0, from 1.2.3.
14:37:20  <NGC3982> While right-click scrolling the map, the minimap flashes in white (sometimes).
14:37:44  <NGC3982> It's not really a problem.
14:48:31  <Alberth> it's a feature
14:49:04  <Alberth> your cursor is over one of the industry legends then
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15:01:38  <NGC3982> Leg..ends?
15:01:38  <NGC3982> :>
15:03:31  <Alberth> the text-thingies at the bottom of the minimap explaining what colour each industry is :)
15:03:55  <NGC3982> Oooh!
15:03:57  <NGC3982> Neat!
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15:09:00  <juzza1> can i use some callback to rename my vehicle after a specific year?
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15:29:17  <Eddi|zuHause> no, names can not be changed
15:30:26  <juzza1> ok
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16:37:56  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, random idea: in scenario editor, when you place a river tile, allow ctrl+click to generate a whole river
16:39:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and i like the idea of randomly placing lakes (although not necessarily correlated to rivers)
16:52:21  <APTX_> doesn't work for me, but other wiki pages do...
16:53:02  <Ristovski> APTX_: doesn't work for me either
16:53:13  <Ristovski> "HTTP Error 500 (Internal Server Error)"
16:53:37  <Ristovski> it exists tho,
16:54:01  <APTX_> cute
16:54:34  <Ristovski> APTX_: I betya is some broken formatting which is making the server shit itself
16:54:45  <APTX_> ... damn
16:55:26  <Ristovski>
16:55:28  <Ristovski> it's all broken
16:55:34  <Ristovski> even
16:55:39  <APTX_> that works for me
16:55:43  <Ristovski> not for me
16:57:53  <Ristovski> planetmaker: Any idea why the wiki is returning 500, aka internal server error
16:58:05  <Ristovski> probably PHP
16:58:49  <Ristovski> APTX_: if the main page works for you, that means you probably just have it cached
17:00:17  <Eddi|zuHause> it works here
17:00:34  <Eddi|zuHause> and i almost never visit the wiki, so caching is probably not the case
17:01:04  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, now i got an error
17:02:13  <Eddi|zuHause> it happens very randomly, though
17:02:33  <planetmaker> no, I don't know. But yes I know it happens. And I asked those who can do something about it to take a look
17:02:35  <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried contacting TrueBrain?
17:03:32  <planetmaker> :-)
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17:05:32  <planetmaker> but maybe Rubidium or TrueBrain can have a look at wiki VM before more people encounter many blank pages
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17:25:46  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, the debug levels for sl don't really give much useful information
17:31:11  <Sacro> stupid svn://
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17:39:32  <Eddi|zuHause> " * Do something of which I have no idea what it is :P"
17:39:35  <Eddi|zuHause> very helpful
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17:42:26  <Ristovski> lol
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17:45:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25210 trunk/src/lang/gaelic.txt (2013-04-27 17:45:08 UTC)
17:45:16  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:17  <DorpsGek> gaelic - 6 changes by GunChleoc
17:58:24  <Eddi|zuHause> well the code is from r1 and the comment from r2387
17:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> but i am a step closer to savegame conversion
17:59:07  <Alberth> :)
17:59:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i have now found all places where i need to hack in settings
17:59:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but now need something for the "invalid chunk types"
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18:01:11  <Eddi|zuHause> or rather "unknown chunk"
18:01:57  <Eddi|zuHause> and maybe match the yapp stuff onto what actually got in trunk later
18:08:23  <Sacro> install: cannot change permissions of `///usr/local/share/pixmaps': No such file or directory
18:08:26  <Sacro> :(
18:09:32  <Sacro> oh right
18:09:37  <Alberth> perhaps point ./configure to an install directory where you have write access?
18:09:37  <Sacro> --install-dir
18:09:48  <Sacro> Alberth: no, it doesn't respect DESTDIR being the problem
18:10:55  <Alberth> build directory and install directory are separate things in sane build environments
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18:11:18  <Sacro> yes
18:11:27  <Sacro> and make DESTDIR=$pkgdir install
18:11:32  <Sacro> is standard nomencleture in arch
18:12:09  <planetmaker> provide us with a patch so that it does respect it :-)
18:12:10  <Alberth> ok, that's good, there are too many build environments that think the build path and the install path are the same
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18:20:52  <Sacro> now why can't it find the lang directory
18:21:18  <Sacro> strace shows it finding it
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18:23:31  <Alberth> does ./openttd -d 9 display why it is rejected?
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18:24:49  <Sacro> oh there we go, had to compile it with the path i was moving it into
18:24:53  <Sacro> now it needs a graphics set ><
18:27:53  <Sacro> grr
18:27:58  <Sacro> I put it in data/baseset
18:28:00  <Sacro> what more do yo uwant
18:29:22  <planetmaker> data/baseset sounds wrong
18:29:31  <planetmaker> OpenTTD does not want a data directory anymore
18:29:38  <Sacro> ah unzip
18:29:42  <Sacro> pssh
18:29:44  <Sacro> still works
18:29:49  <planetmaker> it still does, yes
18:29:58  <planetmaker> but use baseset directly
18:30:36  <planetmaker> unless you run OpenTTD pre-1.2 alongside.
18:30:44  <planetmaker> it makes no sense to use the legacy paths
18:32:27  <Sacro> argh fuck, just overwrote my openttd.cfg ><
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18:37:18  <Eddi|zuHause> use your backup
18:38:36  <Sacro> yes...
18:39:50  <Sacro> wtf
18:40:06  <Sacro> why is the version I compiled 24662M
18:40:13  <Sacro> and the windows client 24663M
18:41:37  <Alberth> you didn't update at the root of the check-out?
18:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> why did you check out a version from half a year ago?
18:43:04  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: Reddit servers have is2, cargodist and daylength
18:43:16  <Sacro> though they provide a slightly retarded diff
18:43:21  <Sacro> I might bitch for a full source dump
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18:44:31  <Sacro> oh wait
18:44:38  <Sacro> it's just deleting files that don't exist in .svn
18:44:39  <Sacro> ><
18:47:33  * Wolf01 is going to watch ironman 3 and quits before somebody spoilers it :D
18:47:41  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
18:49:32  <Sacro> ah well, it lives
18:55:24  <Sacro> maybe I didn't trash my cfg, just added a load of stuff
19:01:26  <ZxBiohazardZx> !passw
19:01:52  <ZxBiohazardZx> fail
19:01:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> wrong channel, incomplete sentance
19:01:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> epic
19:04:25  <Supercheese> be glad, I think there might be auto-kick if you do that in this channel :P
19:05:00  <Supercheese> Let's test
19:05:03  <Supercheese> !password
19:05:04  *** Supercheese was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
19:05:38  <__ln___> ZxBiohazardZx: *sentence
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19:19:50  <andythenorth> hola
19:20:13  <planetmaker> hola andythenorth
19:22:10  <__ln___> latin only
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19:26:07  <ZxBiohazardZx> lol supercheese
19:26:19  <ZxBiohazardZx> and yes __ln__ your right
19:27:12  <__ln___> *you're
19:27:24  <ZxBiohazardZx> obviously
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19:43:14  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i somehow don't manage to just skip a whole chunk without knowing its specific data format :/
19:45:41  <Eddi|zuHause> so i have to replicate some functionality for understanding the data, even though the final result doesn't interest me :/
19:46:13  <Eddi|zuHause> just to know how much data i have to read
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19:48:10  <frosch123> it is possible to skip unknown chunks
19:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> where?
19:51:16  <frosch123> <- that's my hack-tool to modify savegames
19:51:21  <frosch123> you have to uncompress it before though
19:51:42  <Eddi|zuHause> that won't be an issue, since i' modifying the saveload code
19:52:24  <Eddi|zuHause> but if i provide an empty function, it won't read any data
19:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and there i can't find a way to know the size of the chunk to just read all of it
19:57:00  <frosch123> isn't it enough to just put a NULL into the table instead of a function?
19:57:12  <frosch123> or does that only work for saving it?
19:57:17  <__ln___> can anyone point me to a book, article or reliable web page that compares different approaches to cross-platform software? e.g. native applications vs. java vs. python.
19:57:25  <frosch123> anyway, the data format contains the information of the length
19:57:36  <Alberth> do you know what follows? then you can read upto that
19:57:41  <frosch123> but it would not try to skip them with the chunk handlers
19:57:42  <michi_cc> Do you still have the sources for the old code? Simplest way is to NULL the save proc in the old version and save.
19:57:44  <frosch123> but on a lower level
19:58:14  <michi_cc> Otherwise look at SlLoadChunk() in saveload/saveload.cpp
19:59:23  <michi_cc> And replicate what SlLoadCheckChunk() does in there as well.
19:59:32  <Alberth> __ln___: java vs python is about different application areas, imho
20:00:11  <Alberth> python is good at glueing, where you mostly wait for other code
20:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i still have the old code, and managed to load-ish the savegame yesterday (but it had some issues which might or might not be related)
20:00:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have the essence of the data format now, to try and just read it
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20:05:22  <andythenorth> drawing good winding wheels for a coal mine is bloody hard
20:11:53  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, this is too complicated, i'll try nulling the save function
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20:14:48  <andythenorth> this is the best I've got
20:15:02  <andythenorth> RL, the wheel spokes are way too thin to show up in TTD
20:15:34  <andythenorth> also the cables are too thick, but it's TTD style :P
20:15:55  <andythenorth> I might trim them
20:16:07  <andythenorth> they look odd
20:18:31  <Eddi|zuHause> could scrape off one or two pixels
20:18:40  <andythenorth> yup
20:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause> and then animate them ;)
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20:21:50  <andythenorth> I will animate them
20:23:04  <planetmaker> even TTD ones are animated :D
20:24:04  <planetmaker> surprisingly simple, though
20:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... it still doesn't load...
20:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i must have missed something
20:27:15  <Eddi|zuHause> the initial check now runs, but the loading stops at chunk VEHS
20:27:26  * Eddi|zuHause goes digging
20:27:35  * andythenorth wonders if the default coal mine tile has animation frame
20:27:57  <andythenorth> FIRS uses default tiles, changing that would break savegames a bit
20:28:16  <planetmaker> andythenorth, original coal mine has 3-stage animation
20:28:29  <andythenorth> I'll reuse that if I can
20:28:50  <planetmaker> it then means to replace the appropriate sprites in the base set simply. Easy...
20:29:23  <planetmaker> iirc... I hope I don't confuse mines :D
20:30:27  <planetmaker> my memory served me well :-)
20:31:09  <andythenorth> I can replace base set sprites? o_O
20:31:24  <planetmaker> if you don't change the industrie's graphics? Sure.
20:31:27  <andythenorth> I have been adding my own graphics in the nml block thus far
20:31:38  <planetmaker>
20:31:39  <andythenorth> maybe that's the same thing
20:31:42  <planetmaker> just copy it :-)
20:31:45  <planetmaker> nearly
20:31:57  <planetmaker> use a replace block
20:32:14  <planetmaker> not base_graphics as I linked
20:32:36  <planetmaker> replace coal_mine_anim1(2013, ...)
20:33:09  <andythenorth> neat
20:33:49  <Eddi|zuHause> the NFO equivalent would be action A (or action 5, i always mix those up)
20:33:56  <planetmaker> actionA
20:34:06  <planetmaker> action5 corresponds to replace_new
20:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe nml should abstract from that?
20:34:59  <planetmaker> difficult. But in general I agree
20:36:48  <planetmaker> <-- similar to that, andythenorth
20:36:56  <planetmaker> you can use one block instead of the many I used there
20:37:28  <andythenorth> k
20:37:33  <andythenorth> something to figure out tomorrow :)
20:37:54  <planetmaker> it actually has also animation of the same kind... so it's an example :-)
20:49:19  <andythenorth> thanks
20:49:25  <andythenorth> bye for now
20:49:34  <planetmaker> g'night, andythenorth
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22:47:46  <frosch123> night
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