Log for #openttd on 29th July 2013:
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05:14:46  <krinn> morning, with rain :/
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06:40:54  <planetmaker> moin
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07:51:37  <dihedral> good morning
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08:49:31  <Zuu> good morning
09:05:27  <dihedral> good morning Zuu
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09:16:13  <planetmaker> hello dihedral Zuu frosch123 :-)
09:16:21  <Zuu> hello planetmaker
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09:18:42  <dihedral> quack :-D
09:18:57  <frosch123> moin :)
09:19:04  <frosch123> anyone tried the win9x build lately? :p
09:19:16  <dihedral> pfft
09:19:54  <peter1139> anyone still using a win9x machine? o_O
09:20:15  <frosch123> it's also recommended for xp < sp3
09:20:22  <frosch123> or something like that
09:20:50  <peter1139> no excuse for not installing service packs :S
09:20:56  <Xaroth|Work> I haven't touched a 9X machine in a LONG time
09:21:52  <frosch123> hmm, i think i still have a 2000 vm from the last time the 9x build just failed
09:23:50  <dihedral> winxp is eol
09:23:57  <dihedral> so who should care :-P
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09:25:26  <wakou2> Good day Otters
09:25:28  <peter1139> 2000 shouldn't need 9x
09:25:33  <peter1139> but who knows
09:25:49  <wakou2> quick Q, how can I remove a sign?
09:26:01  <Zuu> wakou2: If it's your own, ctrl+click on it
09:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause> or just remove all text
09:26:47  <Zuu> If it belongs to anyone else, it is also possible to remove it, but in that case you need to click on the sign to open the sign window.
09:27:25  <Zuu> If there are a lot of signs from other companies that you don't want to see, disable "show competitor signs" instead.
09:27:26  <frosch123> "Welcome to the OpenTTD 1.3.2 32-bit for Windows 95, 98, ME, 2000 and XP without SP3 Setup Wizard" <- wow, what a wizard!
09:27:44  <wakou2> OK ty... (I'm obv not awake yet!)
09:27:57  <planetmaker> wizards... old wizards. They die hard ;-)
09:28:07  <Zuu> A removed sign is removed for all other players too, so only do that if you think that your competitors would be okay with it.
09:29:13  <blathijs> dihedral: XP isn't EOL until next year, right?
09:29:23  <planetmaker> roughly yes
09:29:45  <planetmaker>
09:29:45  <planetmaker> April 8, 2014
09:30:03  <wakou2> Zuu... hmm does not work? ctrl-click...
09:30:14  <frosch123> anyway, confirmed, win9x build is completely borked
09:30:22  <frosch123> and noone noticed during rc :p
09:30:23  <planetmaker> ohu
09:30:27  <planetmaker> :-)
09:30:42  <frosch123> actualy, let's see whether 1.3.1 worked
09:31:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember getting a "success" notice about that a few days ago
09:31:38  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure though
09:31:38  <wakou2> Zuu Ok got it now, was ctrl clicking the square, not the sign.
09:32:18  <Zuu> ok
09:33:22  <frosch123> no, 1.3.1 fails as well at least :)
09:34:23  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever
09:37:18  <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: so nobody has used ottd on 9X in how long? :P
09:38:09  <frosch123> 1.2.3 fails as well
09:38:22  <frosch123> i am going to check since when it fails, and then suggest to drop support
09:38:55  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of "fail"?
09:39:10  <blathijs> frosch123: There's also the option that there is something wrong with your test system, if all these builds look broken to you
09:40:00  <frosch123> blathijs: i am not the original reporter :)
09:40:47  <blathijs> Still... :-)
09:41:03  <blathijs> But it does seem unlikely that a change in Windows broke OpenTTD, that's true ;-p
09:41:06  <frosch123> hmm, yeah, 1.1.5 fails as well, starts to get weird
09:42:10  <frosch123> oh, i should test 1.2.1 apparently
09:42:19  <frosch123> fs#5250 says we fixed it there :p
09:42:48  <Xaroth|Work> to then break it again? :P
09:43:58  <wakou2> So, guys whilst you were all offf at the wildest party since woodstock, I encountered a problem in a game....... It is not the first time I had hit this wall, and it is extremley frustrating.
09:45:01  <wakou2> With the help of some people on here, SamanthaD, Krinn and Aristide, I got it fixed, and would like to add this little tip to the wiki....
09:46:13  <wakou2> But first would like to ask a few noob type Q's just so I don't go ahead and write some nonsense on the wiki page (manual)....
09:46:25  <wakou2> That OK with you folks?
09:46:32  <Xaroth|Work> don't ask to ask
09:46:33  <Xaroth|Work> just ask
09:47:29  <wakou2> :)
09:49:21  <wakou2> OK Is there any way to show Local Authority ratings in a more granular way? ie when you just have 'appaling' with no figure or percentage, it is difficult to know whether your comapny is making any progress...
09:49:56  <wakou2> ....towards being able to build again etc..
09:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's all you get
09:52:29  <wakou2> Eddi|zuHause:  Honestly I think this would be a genuine improvement, and easy surely for coders types to implement, so it show as for instance "very poor (19%)" so that the player knows he only has a little way to go to become "mediocre" for example...
09:52:57  <wakou2> (I obv don't know the numbers, but this just an example)
09:54:41  <wakou2> Secondly, when planting trees, does the DENSITY of tree cover matter to LA approval ratings? ie you can plant tress on a square four times, but is it only the first time that improves the rating?
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09:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> no, only the first tree on the tile
09:55:52  <wakou2> Third, (I guess I know this, but just to be sure) Only squares 'belonging' a LA affect the company rating?
09:56:28  <Eddi|zuHause> very likely, but i don't know that myself
09:57:50  <wakou2> And that boundary of LA ownership how is it calculated? Distance from centre combined somehow with population?
09:58:14  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea. it's probably fixed
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10:02:49  <frosch123> ok, no idea what is borked about 2000, but luckily i also had a 98 vm
10:02:57  <frosch123> there at least 1.3.1 worked :)
10:06:21  <dihedral> lol
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10:11:41  <fjb_phone> Moin
10:12:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you know that your phone connection sometimes breaks horribly, constantly rejoining?
10:20:02  <wakou2> I found a little buglet in the wiki sign-up page. The dialogue boxes are labelled in Japanese. Whom should tell about this?...
10:20:06  <wakou2>
10:20:57  <Zuu> It has been reported on the forum in the problems section. No idea if anyone has reported it to though.
10:21:20  <wakou2> Zuu:  Ok ty
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10:31:17  <planetmaker> hi fjb_phone
10:31:46  <frosch123> planetmaker: was the japanese thing actually reproducible at your site when we/tb tried?
10:31:56  <frosch123> because it currently happens for me :o
10:32:09  <planetmaker> sorry... what japanese thing?
10:32:29  <frosch123> ottd signup page not using english text, but some unknown asian script
10:32:47  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it was
10:32:50  <planetmaker> ah, TB created this on my machine. But I didn't watch how he did it. I just saw it on my screen here
10:33:14  <frosch123> ok, so it's at least not completely random :)
10:33:23  <frosch123> though stilly completely weird :p
10:33:31  <planetmaker> I think it's perfectly reproducable from what I recall TB arguing
10:33:52  <planetmaker> he'll be able to give you the exact steps, TrueBrain
10:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> there were no steps involved, just logout and go to the signup page
10:35:32  <planetmaker> indeed
10:36:58  <fjb_phone> Eddi|zuHause: I know, just had to set it up the right way.
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10:53:35  <wakou2> frosch123:  a screenshot any help to you?
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11:31:33  <krinn> hi
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11:35:06  <wakou2> krinn: Hi
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11:44:22  <wakou2> Eddi|zuHause:  Are you the same Eddi who just replied to my post on the forum, re LA ratings suggestion?
11:44:46  <Xaroth|Work> two Eddis? the thought alone should scare many a child.
11:44:53  <wakou2> :)
11:50:01  <Alberth> moin
11:52:03  <wakou2> Alberth: Hi
11:53:00  <fjb_phone> Moin Alberth
11:55:04  <Alberth> hi hi
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12:28:39  <krinn> if i open a sub project in one of my AI, can i get it move to another category later ? (tired to wait hosting answer @devzone)
12:31:24  <Alberth> planetmaker: ^^
12:32:04  <Alberth> krinn: you picked a wrong weekend for requesting changes :)
12:32:23  <krinn> :D seems
12:33:03  <krinn> it's also one with storms for me, hence i don't feel safe
12:42:21  <planetmaker> the category can be changed (and is mostly pointless and only for looks and convenience as it only affects sorting in the DevZone's project list)
12:42:45  <planetmaker> the URL of it can't change, though
12:43:38  <planetmaker> uh, you're wormnest?
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12:43:51  <andythenorth> moin
12:43:53  <krinn> me ?
12:43:56  <planetmaker> hm, no
12:44:18  <planetmaker> why did you assign the issue to yourself when applying for a project?
12:44:48  <krinn> well, i think it was to tell if i would be able to update... it
12:45:04  <planetmaker> assignment means that you'll resolve the issue. Thus create it yourself :-)
12:45:23  <planetmaker> it's assigned to whomever needs to take action next ;-)
12:45:49  <krinn> :) could die waiting there, why my name is list if i cannot take the action ?
12:46:11  <planetmaker> you can assign it to anyone, I guess
12:46:21  <Alberth> hi hi andythenorth, planetmaker
12:46:25  <krinn> checking, but list was short
12:46:29  <planetmaker> hello Alberth :-)
12:46:35  <planetmaker> and hi andythenorth
12:47:35  <krinn> yeah short list : 8 people including me
12:47:37  <planetmaker> krinn, why cEngine?
12:47:51  <planetmaker> I mean the name, what does the c stand for?
12:48:02  <planetmaker> lib URL usually go ailib-XXX
12:48:07  <planetmaker> what should XXX be in your case?
12:48:10  <krinn> class, i've just keep the original name i use in my ai
12:48:31  <andythenorth> wrt to GS, I was considering that there might be use for a lib that can handle common goals
12:48:43  <krinn> c for class that handle engine = c+engine
12:49:11  <andythenorth> e.g. nocargoal (transport x amount), connect 2 cities goal, build industries goal, supply an industry with x amount input goal etc
12:49:16  <planetmaker> ok. And what shall I chose as XXX now? :-) cengine or engine? or?
12:49:35  <Alberth> krinn: all squirrel code are classes :p
12:49:42  <krinn> :) Alberth
12:49:44  <andythenorth> then GS could use these goals from the library for a bigger GS - for example, SV, or JobSecurity
12:49:51  <krinn> ailib-cenginelib ?
12:49:57  <andythenorth> Zuu: ^^
12:50:01  <planetmaker> twice lib?
12:50:20  <krinn> name is just for commit ?
12:50:33  <Alberth> krinn: nope, it's used all over teh place
12:50:43  <planetmaker> It's the repo URL and path like
12:51:12  <planetmaker> it's the dir name basically I create
12:51:13  <Alberth> krinn: why not make it part of the ailib?
12:51:22  <planetmaker> it's an ailib...
12:51:54  <Alberth> oh, ailib is the umbrella name of course. Sorry
12:52:07  <krinn> it's an ailib, name cEngineLib because i was thinking EngineLib was a bit pretentieux (let me google that)
12:52:30  <planetmaker> ailib-cengine then
12:53:08  <krinn> ok
12:53:14  <Alberth> andythenorth: +1 on a GSlib  :)
12:53:33  <andythenorth> for me, the entry point to a GS is quite high
12:53:35  <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes, I (meanwhile) think that'll be useful. Dunno really why it doesn't exist
12:53:44  <andythenorth> meanwhile I'm not a good programmer, but I get stuff done
12:54:08  <andythenorth> but still, I have to learn too much for a GS, it's a barrier to me starting
12:54:32  <Alberth> andythenorth: so don't start with a library, just write a GS
12:54:45  <Alberth> where perhaps one class does "common stuff"
12:54:55  <andythenorth> I don't want to write a library at all :)
12:54:59  <andythenorth> I want to consume the library
12:55:23  <Alberth> steal the code of nocargoal / silicon valley :)
12:55:25  <frosch123> damn, are you also as mosquito bites as i am? everything is itching :p
12:55:46  <andythenorth> try anti-histamines
12:55:48  <andythenorth> or such
12:55:50  <krinn> tiger one frosch123 ?
12:56:39  <Alberth> frosch123:  I also have itching spots all over my arms :(
12:58:00  <krinn> thank you planetmaker
12:58:13  <planetmaker> you're welcome
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13:17:09  <LordAro> heyo
13:17:21  <krinn> hi
13:20:01  <Alberth> hi LordAro
13:20:13  <LordAro> hai Alberth & krinn
13:26:00  <Zuu> krinn: in the url, strip the final 'lib'. Eg ailib-cengine
13:26:19  <Zuu> The library itself can still be named cEngineLib if you like
13:28:03  <krinn> planetmaker suggest it already zuu :)
13:30:36  <Zuu> krinn: In library.nut change GetUrl => GetURL. I know that I have this error in a few places. API doc:
13:31:06  <krinn> wow i must have that one everywhere then
13:31:07  <Eddi|zuHause> mosquito bites are worst at my knees, for some reason
13:31:58  <krinn> lol Eddi|zuHause better than another part no, bad days to be nudist
13:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what you're trying to say...
13:33:59  <krinn> better gets bites on knees than ass
13:35:29  <Eddi|zuHause> you know that mosquitos can sting through clothes?
13:35:47  <Xaroth|Work> I have 4 mosquito bites on my ankle.. they are fucking annoying
13:36:04  <Xaroth|Work> when you think they stop itching, you take 3 steps.. your shoes rub against them
13:36:07  <Xaroth|Work> and bam, itchy again
13:36:46  <Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: only solution is amputation... and I'm kinda considering that
13:37:09  <Xaroth|Work> Rubidium: meh, i'm too attached to my feet :(
13:37:19  <krinn> Rubidium, i do to, but for mosquito's head
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14:01:04  <LordAro> hmm. music manager. which would you pick/use?
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14:06:05  <krinn> clementine
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14:17:43  <Zuu> I only did get about 10 mosquito bites. Some itch a little, but nothing too bad.
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14:20:08  <dihedral> <Rubidium> Xaroth|Work: only solution is amputation... and I'm kinda considering that <- then he can join TrueBrain who will only have one leg also (as discussed during the weekend)
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15:19:04  <planetmaker> @ports
15:19:04  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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15:27:03  <dihedral> actually that is missing TCP 3977
15:27:57  <Xaroth|Work> yep
15:28:05  <dihedral> and it's way too much
15:28:17  <Xaroth|Work> well, admin port is optional
15:29:45  <dihedral> true
15:30:47  <andythenorth> Bbl
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15:44:41  * Rubidium waves to andy
15:44:57  <andythenorth> o/
15:47:44  <Rubidium> did you like the nyancorn?
15:48:07  <andythenorth> o_O
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15:53:53  <Rubidium> or weren't you made aware of that construction?
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16:07:05  <andythenorth> I saw a picture of something on someone's head...
16:07:15  <andythenorth> but was told to deny all knowledge in public ;)
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16:17:23  <V453000> :D
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16:33:53  <Terkhen> hello
16:38:36  <andythenorth> hola Terkhen
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16:42:14  <krinn> hello Terkhen
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16:45:19  <krinn> not the top odd thing that can be seen, but openttd always add 1 to engine speed in the ui
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16:53:52  <frosch123> there are like 3 units for engine speeds
16:54:39  <krinn> well the one in my display is the same as in noai, except the +1
16:54:51  <krinn> in km/h
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17:10:47  <XeryusTC> how do you tell tell openttd to use the release version string instead of revision number when compiling?
17:11:00  <XeryusTC> ye olde method of ./configure --revision doesn't work anymore :(
17:13:09  <planetmaker> you don't.
17:13:31  <planetmaker> You have to obtain the release version for the revision string
17:14:55  <planetmaker> doing that on one of our servers btw caused the removal. As it caused desyncs
17:15:10  <planetmaker> which took a day of debugging. pointlessly
17:19:54  <Rubidium> XeryusTC: if you need the release version string and you get the revision number, then you aren't using the release
17:21:13  *** megakacktus [] has joined #openttd
17:25:12  <XeryusTC> Rubidium: seems like you're correct
17:29:07  <Rubidium> so it prevented another day of desync debugging ;)
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17:32:37  <murr4y> wow
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17:32:44  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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17:35:20  <frosch123> murr4y: that picture has been on wikipedia for 5 years
17:35:48  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
17:35:55  <frosch123> it's 4 cliients btw
17:36:01  <Wolf01> hello :P
17:36:02  <frosch123> no shared viewport
17:37:19  *** Aristide [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:37:32  <Wolf01> yesterday my PSU decided that bonfires are good
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25634 trunk/src/lang/estonian.txt (2013-07-29 17:45:15 UTC)
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> estonian - 144 changes by KSiimson
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17:52:46  *** megakacktus [] has left #openttd [Live long and prosper]
17:54:13  <Alberth> Wolf01: hi, and  :(
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18:10:45  <Wolf01> not such a problem, I was here, luckily, at first I thought it was a power loss, but the air conditioner was happily sucking it's part of humidity from the air unable to lower the temperature, and I have a UPS, then I noticed a strange sound, like an electric component on fire (I really know it, I set on fire many of them at school :P) and the room suddenly was full of toxic smoke
18:13:49  <TWerkhoven> ouch
18:14:24  <TWerkhoven> i had the same thing, breakers tripped but ups happilly kept powering the pc.
18:14:31  <TWerkhoven> got popcorn instead of fire though
18:14:51  <Wolf01> :)
18:15:29  <Wolf01> time to test the new PSU
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18:20:15  <murr4y> frosch123: oh :(
18:20:31  <murr4y> that was better left to the imagination :p
18:23:12  <frosch123> you can count the number of keyboard/mice, win startbars and ottd main toolbar :p
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18:37:37  <Zuu> frosch123: Or even easier, the number of news messages at the bottom of each OpenTTD client
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18:57:52  <krinn> doing dictatorai to help me doing cenginelib to help me doing dictatorai... listening to hell's bells
19:02:36  *** The_Dude [] has joined #openttd
19:02:51  <The_Dude> hello there lovely people :-)
19:03:16  <krinn> hi The_Dude
19:03:38  <The_Dude> is here any expert for openttd MSVC compiling? I've got small question regarding last release
19:04:06  <Zuu> @get 3
19:04:06  <DorpsGek> Zuu: Don't ask to ask, just ask
19:04:25  <The_Dude> I am doing that, just wait
19:04:49  <Zuu> Eg. depending on the question, there may be someone who can answer it.
19:05:19  <The_Dude> when I compile with WITH_ICU disabled, I 've got funny character in openttd multiplayer chat, it puts "?" before every chat message, now, do I have to compile with WITH_ICU enabled, or is there a way to still compile without it and get normal output?
19:05:35  <The_Dude> just to add, if I compile with WITH_ICU, it is of course ok
19:06:36  <Zuu> frosch123: ^^ is that your 9x problem?
19:06:41  <The_Dude> any light into that edge issue is appreciated :-)
19:07:40  <frosch123> Zuu: no, but makes it more suspicious that 9x also fails due to WITHOUT_ICU#
19:08:06  <The_Dude> let's talk about win7 for a while :-)
19:08:40  <The_Dude> in 1.3.1 all was ok
19:08:50  <frosch123> same for 9x :p
19:08:55  *** zeknurn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:09:03  <The_Dude> I was not able to find out whether there was some change, or if it relates to new openttd useful
19:09:07  <The_Dude> :-)
19:09:26  <frosch123> everything about text rendering and icu changed between 1.3.1 and 1.3.2
19:09:27  <The_Dude> well, I can of course compile with WITH_ICU, but I dont like the extra 8MB :-)
19:09:37  *** zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
19:10:35  <The_Dude> everything? so WITH_ICU is like obligatory now?
19:11:08  <frosch123> no, but WITHOUT_ICU is mostly untested
19:12:03  <The_Dude> ok, so should I report it as bug? :-)
19:12:15  *** amiller [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:12:19  <The_Dude> I dont know what development intenstion concerning this issue are
19:12:53  <frosch123> supporting non-european alphabets
19:13:19  *** zooks [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:13:29  <glx> and improved layout too
19:16:01  <The_Dude> so what will be next? chinese and Sanskrit perhaps? :D
19:16:06  <The_Dude> I miss the cuneiform too ;-)
19:17:11  <frosch123> chinese is easy
19:17:34  <The_Dude> yes, if you are Chinese
19:18:22  <frosch123> no, easy compared to arabic or tamil
19:18:40  <The_Dude> that might be more accurate :-)
19:18:50  <frosch123> layouting chinese is even easier than european
19:18:57  <frosch123> all letters have the same width anyway
19:19:14  <krinn> i speak 30 languages
19:19:17  <krinn> ... when drunk
19:19:36  <frosch123> ottd speaks 54
19:21:11  <The_Dude> will be 55 if you add brail too :-)
19:21:23  <Zuu> frosch123: If you want a challenge, try to support signed languages. Eg. for at least longer strings/explanations, offer a video. :-)
19:21:56  <frosch123> Zuu: does it need a video, or do some sprite suffice?
19:22:10  <frosch123> i.e. does it need motion?
19:22:14  <The_Dude> yes, that would become very international, everyone can recognize pictures :-)
19:22:15  <frosch123> or are still images enough?
19:22:37  <Zuu> It needs motion. Some websites use animated gifs with a low frame rate as a compromise
19:23:38  <frosch123> hmm, actually what is the point of sign language on the internet?
19:24:06  <frosch123> is there a relevant number of people who can signs, but not read text?
19:24:48  <The_Dude> most of the internet it that way
19:26:04  <Zuu> The point is that many deaf people has sign language as their first language. A website with written text will then be in their second language.
19:26:42  <Zuu> Eg. the same reason why there is a german TTD forums and not all germans use the english forum.
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19:27:35  <The_Dude> oh, really, there is german ttd forum, quite military layout :D
19:27:53  <frosch123> hmm, yeah, i always forget that there is no relation between sign and written text as between text and voice
19:28:02  <andythenorth> sign language is quite involved to translate too
19:28:12  * andythenorth has been involved in a few sign language projects
19:28:20  <The_Dude> 2nd most view thread: Probleme mit OpenTTD
19:29:51  <Alberth> that's normal with every forum :)
19:30:12  <Alberth> people never post when it works as expected :)
19:30:34  <Zuu> - I have a problem, OpenTTD works just as I want :-)
19:30:39  <frosch123> Alberth: nope, off-topic should at least double problems section
19:31:07  <Alberth> inclusive or exclusive the games? :)
19:31:20  <frosch123> i don't dare to check :)
19:32:03  <The_Dude> on ttforums, problem thread is 4th out of 5th, that's nice
19:32:39  <Alberth> The_Dude: many people post in general openttd
19:32:52  <andythenorth> is it nap time yet?
19:32:55  * andythenorth is very tired
19:33:05  *** Levent [~oftc-webi@] has joined #openttd
19:33:44  <Alberth> nap time is always, especially when it is hot, and you are out of the sun
19:36:53  <Levent> hey there...
19:37:37  * andythenorth plays some more of a cdist game
19:37:48  <andythenorth> I'm never going to manage to clear all PAX stations right?
19:37:52  <andythenorth> it's too hard
19:38:57  <The_Dude> any other ideas with my WITHOUT_ICU problem?
19:39:59  <Levent> whats diffrence between cargo distribution and cargo destinations may i ask...
19:41:27  <frosch123> the order of cargo production and assigning targets
19:41:29  <andythenorth>  one is in trunk
19:41:29  <andythenorth> the other is not
19:41:42  <frosch123> cdist produces cargo first, then ships them
19:42:02  <frosch123> cdest assigns targets first, then produces accoding to what is reachable
19:42:14  <Zuu> cdist choose one of the reachable destinations
19:42:36  <Zuu> cdest discard cargo if destination can't be reached
19:43:39  <andythenorth> for the record, having tried cdist, I am a fan
19:44:11  <andythenorth> I miss YACD deciding where cargo wants to go, but cdist is still fun
19:44:24  <Levent> okay, thanks
19:44:42  <frosch123> or to put it more extreme: adding a new line to a network gives you more cargo to transport in cdest, but hurts your existing lines in cdist :p
19:45:24  <Levent> cdest sounds better doesnt it ...
19:45:42  <frosch123> well, it's the same as with everything
19:45:43  <Levent> anyway which one is being played and reachable?
19:45:54  <frosch123> if you know too much about the game mechanics, the game becomes boring :)
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19:46:09  <frosch123> cdist/cdest difference does not matter as long as you do not know about the difference :p
19:46:26  <frosch123> other than that, you can still add production levels depending on target number or whatever
19:46:30  <frosch123> it's just not done :)
19:46:31  <Levent> i do know much i think, not the code but played over 5 years in Clanmega etc (rip)
19:46:34  <glx> the goal is the same for both
19:47:04  <frosch123> if you want to get rid of all fun playing ottd, you should read the game mechanics page on the wiki :p
19:47:20  <Levent> x) it becomes like chess ehe?
19:47:57  <andythenorth> autorefit is 'broken' in order gui btw
19:47:57  <frosch123> playing for 5 years gives you a theory, but not the certainty of reading the code
19:48:08  <andythenorth> there's no obvious way to remove an autorefit order
19:48:11  <Alberth> worse, chess is too complicated to predict
19:48:24  <frosch123> andythenorth: isn't "ctrl" obvious? :p
19:48:47  <andythenorth> ctrl does it? :o
19:48:50  <frosch123> even the tooltip says so :)
19:49:12  <andythenorth> oic
19:49:27  <Levent> whats left fun for me is realism... and i miss clanmega, we used to play cargodist with infrashare n shitloads of plugins n industries :/ searching something similar for a year or two... ?
19:49:46  <glx> andythenorth: rule number one: try with ctrl ;)
19:50:02  <andythenorth> meh
19:50:13  <andythenorth> ctrl modifier on a drop down menu is ugly
19:50:26  <glx> the key for many "hidden" features
19:55:55  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that's like saying "decryption is too easy if you know the code"
19:57:46  <Levent> lol btw are you frosch, that one is a main coder for Openttd ?
20:02:48  <frosch123> no, i am not the main coder of openttd
20:03:21  <frosch123> but every person with the name of a dev in this channel, is the actual dev
20:03:27  <frosch123> or we would have kicked them :p
20:03:39  * Rubidium isn't the main coder either
20:04:56  <glx> and banned frosch123 ;)
20:05:48  <Eddi|zuHause> we should devise some punishment for when TrueBrain impersonated planetmaker :p
20:06:29  <glx> was probably easy to detect :)
20:07:11  <Eddi|zuHause> verz easilz because of the wrong kezboard lazout :p
20:07:16  <glx> but then we can't speak via the bot either
20:08:09  <DorpsGek> like this
20:08:26  <Zuu> If anyone would have tried my keyboard, only 'a' and 'm' would be on the usual place :-)
20:08:56  <Alberth> perhaps if you turn the keyboard 180 degrees? :)
20:08:56  <glx> azerty gives nice result too
20:09:17  <frosch123> Zuu: dvorak?
20:09:23  <Zuu> Yeah
20:09:51  <Zuu> A swedish variant with the bonus of placing most programming characters on AltGr+[a-z]
20:10:55  <andythenorth> hmm, losing my evening to this cdist game :P
20:10:59  <frosch123> never used dvorak, but with most us-style keyboard i have most trouble with the return key
20:11:12  <frosch123> i always hit |\
20:11:18  <glx> it's too small :)
20:11:37  <glx> like backspace on some laptops
20:11:52  <Zuu> I never had that problem since I bought my kinesis keyboard. :-)
20:12:20  <Eddi|zuHause> the thing i hate most about american layout is that + requires shift
20:12:46  <Alberth> use numerical + :)
20:13:29  <Zuu> My only problem with kinesis contoured is that it is not exactly portable.
20:13:32  <Levent> ditto... and btw, no one knows a nice cargodi(e)st game with plugins ? x(
20:13:56  <andythenorth> CHIPS would be better if not all tiles showed identical amounts of cargo waiting
20:14:03  <Zuu> Levent: Trunk with some NewGRFs and a nice Game Script
20:14:06  <andythenorth> it's very silly when all tiles in a large station change at once
20:14:19  <andythenorth> I think ISR fixes it in newgrf?
20:14:44  <dihedral> oi
20:14:55  <Alberth> Levent: nocargoal?
20:16:27  <andythenorth> cdist makes distributing cargos like food much more interesting
20:17:10  <Alberth> or pax :)
20:17:27  <andythenorth> indeed
20:17:37  <Alberth> regular cargoes are less interesting for cdist, you think?
20:17:58  * Alberth hasn't really tried town-ish stuff with cdist
20:18:20  <Levent> nah not al :( ah maybe nothing like i want left in there
20:18:32  <andythenorth> regular cargos - it's nice not to have to set transfer orders
20:18:49  <andythenorth> but the networks I build for primary -> secondary are many -> one
20:19:07  <andythenorth> so cdist doesn't change gameplay much
20:19:11  <Levent> lol can we have cdest for pax n mail but normal for else?
20:19:19  <Zuu> yes
20:19:34  <Levent> cuz, like lumber... lumbers wont complain if they go to wrong factory x)
20:20:10  <frosch123> yeah, i always take the packages of my neighbours
20:20:18  <frosch123> the package won't complain
20:22:26  <Alberth> Levent: the factory that is supposed to receive them is :)
20:22:26  <Zuu> When you enable cdist, you do it for groups of cargoes.
20:22:26  <andythenorth> cdist also makes transfers much easier ;)
20:22:26  <Zuu> IIRC: Passengers, mail, express and other cargoes
20:22:26  * andythenorth wonders what cdist will do with FIRS supplies :(
20:22:26  <andythenorth> I guess I have to try it
20:22:26  <Levent> FIRS is the best industries gif we have in hand?
20:22:26  <andythenorth> no comment
20:22:26  <Zuu> It depends on what you like.
20:22:26  <Alberth> I tried a game or two to move a single cargo like coal or wood for all primary -> all secondary, but my industry density is too low
20:22:26  <Alberth> so you have to move things a loooong way
20:22:47  <Levent> so if you wont supply whole chain, it wont work?
20:25:51  *** Netsplit <-> quits: perk11, pugi, apiecux, Pensacola, Wolf01, Sacro, TomyLobo, Vadtec, Extrems, andythenorth,  (+82 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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20:28:53  <dihedral> does anybody know what time Belugas should arrive back home?
20:28:59  <dihedral> Rubidium, TrueBrain ^
20:29:06  <frosch123> according to rb, just now
20:29:12  <dihedral> uh
20:30:03  <Rubidium> dihedral: what's home exactly?
20:30:17  <Prof_Frink> A hatstand.
20:30:46  <Rubidium> the house he usually resides in? The airport near the town he usually resides in? The state/province he usually resides in? Or the country he usually resides in?
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20:31:45  <Prof_Frink> Home is where you hang your hat. Where you hang your hat is a hatstand.
20:31:48  <frosch123> afaik he never left the body he usually resides in
20:32:54  *** Devroush367 [~dennis@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:33:11  <Rubidium> cases 2-4 are respectively in about 20 minutes, about 10 minutes ago, about 100 minutes ago
20:35:29  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:37:05  <dihedral> the house he owns ;-)
20:37:26  <Rubidium> I reckon in about 2.5 hours or thereabouts
20:38:43  <frosch123> night
20:38:47  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
20:38:47  <Rubidium> night frosch123
20:39:46  *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:41:17  * Rubidium likes flightaware's flight tracker ;)
20:42:03  <dihedral> hehe
20:42:09  <dihedral> Thanks for the information
20:42:20  <dihedral> in 2.5h i shall be asleep
20:42:23  <dihedral> hopefully
20:42:29  <andythenorth> +1
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20:44:00  <Rubidium> +2 ;)
20:44:00  <Eddi|zuHause> sleep is overrated
20:44:24  <andythenorth> so the problem with auto-refit (any available)...
20:44:50  <andythenorth> if none of cargo x is waiting, the vehicle won't refit to it
20:45:04  <andythenorth> and if no vehicles carrying x have visited the station, then the station won't be supplied with the cargo
20:45:12  <supermop> yeah
20:45:17  <andythenorth> chicken.egg() or egg.chicken() ?
20:45:23  <supermop> you need to manually ride along the first time
20:45:32  <andythenorth> boooooring
20:45:41  <supermop> i just set it to full load
20:45:45  <Rubidium> andythenorth: then toggle the setting about pushing stuff to stations even if there is no demand
20:45:51  <supermop> then skip after its loaded >0%
20:45:55  <supermop> then re do the orders
20:46:19  <Eddi|zuHause> just make sure the first run has cars refit to every possible cargo
20:47:13  <andythenorth> pushing to stations without demand could be win
20:48:05  <andythenorth> does cdist affect 'move cargo to station' stuff?
20:48:34  * andythenorth is also playing with a stupid industry newgrf that increases station ratings a lot :P
20:54:34  <Rubidium> the whale has landed
20:54:35  <Rubidium> now he's on his own ;)
20:55:17  <Eddi|zuHause> no, cargodist only applies after cargo appears at the station
20:55:34  * andythenorth changes the setting
20:55:43  <andythenorth> now my stations will fill up with unwanted crap :)
20:56:55  <supermop> mail everywhere
20:58:47  <andythenorth> hmm
20:59:02  <andythenorth> I need to exclude a cargo from 'auto refit available'
20:59:03  <andythenorth> :(
20:59:12  <andythenorth> railroad tycoon had a gui for that
21:01:51  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
21:02:51  <andythenorth> does auto refit prefer to stick to current refit?
21:06:39  <andythenorth> oic, the cargo is already on the vehicle, for a destination further along the order list
21:08:52  <andythenorth> good night
21:08:55  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
21:09:53  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
21:09:58  <fjb> Moin
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21:25:11  <Alberth> moin, and good night :)
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21:26:34  <dihedral> Rubidium, apparently it's a type of dolphin :-P
21:26:53  <SmatZ> yay dih :-)
21:27:03  <SmatZ> hello all ;-)
21:27:04  <dihedral> hello SmatZ :-)
21:27:25  <dihedral> how are you? have not seen you 'active' for some time ... probably due to not being active myself :-D
21:27:29  <SmatZ> seems you are married now, wow :-)
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21:28:42  <SmatZ> I am not really active nowadays, yes :-( it's been like that for quite some time now...
21:28:51  <SmatZ> too much work
21:28:56  <SmatZ> I guess
21:30:20  <dihedral> yes, got married in the mean time :-) but the cat is out of the house ... :-D
21:30:38  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:31:48  <SmatZ> warm congratulations from me :)
21:31:58  <SmatZ> wish I were so lucky...
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21:41:07  <dihedral> thank you
21:43:06  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
21:43:52  *** Levent [~oftc-webi@] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
21:56:34  <NGC3982> I watched Prometheus
21:56:47  <NGC3982> My eyes :(
21:57:05  *** Ristovski [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:59:54  <Wolf01> 'night
22:00:04  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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22:14:14  *** megakacktus [] has left #openttd [Live long and prosper]
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22:24:05  <megakacktus> I'd like to help develop OpenTTD but I have very little real developing experience (only a smattering of Java and just a bit of C). naturally the codebase of OpenTTD looks very big and confusing to novice like myself
22:24:06  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:24:15  <megakacktus> I'm just wondering, where would you folks suggest I begin?
22:27:40  <megakacktus> I understand it's written in C++, which should not be too difficult to pick up considering I can get by in java
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22:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause> megakacktus: you can pick one of the "beginner" tasks from the wiki, or follow the recent development, which feature changed code in which places
22:37:35  *** amiller [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:38:12  <megakacktus> Isn't there an RSS feed for recent commits?
22:38:40  <Zuu> Wiki todo:
22:38:51  <Eddi|zuHause> probably on somewhere
22:39:16  <Zuu> Yeah, I subscribe to an RSS on that page.
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22:44:31  <dihedral> good job RAM is no problem in todays world
22:45:02  <dihedral> i really dislike the fact of my java app eating 32MB to 36MB
22:48:06  <dihedral> ap+ has a much smaller fingerprint :-P
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22:56:08  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: java is known for that :|
22:56:18  <Xaroth|Work> if something can whore your ram, it's java
22:56:52  <Xaroth|Work> and .net .. but not -that- bad
22:57:55  <dihedral> the only good thing about java: you know where your resources are going to
22:58:08  <Xaroth|Work> yeah, down the drain :P
22:59:05  <Eddi|zuHause> my first computer had 1.6MB RAM
22:59:21  <Eddi|zuHause> less than the 2MB required to run win 3.1 in 386 mode
22:59:40  <NGC3982> Yey.
23:00:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i think we upgraded to 8MB then
23:00:54  <krinn> lucky you, mine was 256k
23:03:25  <dihedral> i had once upgraded my 486dx2 90MHz to 24MB of RAM :-P
23:06:55  <krinn> i was getting mad because i don't really remember well, but i think it was dos 3.1 takes too much ram, while i couldn't use dos 3.0 or something that was lighter but didn't handle my hdd (a whoopy 10m)
23:07:41  <krinn> it was hard days, booting from floppy because dos takes too much ram :)
23:13:29  <Eddi|zuHause> my first HDD was 80MB, complemented with a 420MB one later
23:14:35  <Eddi|zuHause> which turned out to be a big problem because there was no IDE slot left to attach a CD drive, and we didn't manage to get the CD port on the sound card working (not sure if they needed special devices or special drivers)
23:15:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and there was no internet to google CD drive problems
23:15:38  <NGC3982> I used to drive a bike.
23:15:45  <NGC3982> Sorry.
23:15:49  <NGC3982> I used to ride a bike.
23:17:10  <dihedral> the cd port on the sound card was only for playing music cd's
23:18:05  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, didn't use minitel with RS232 to browse BBS ? (at the lightning speed of the minitel, of course at the amazing prize of france telecom), pure joy
23:19:05  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: not the 4-pin one, there was a complete 40-pin IDE port on the sound card
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23:19:34  <Aristide> o/
23:19:40  <Aristide> I have proken Wireless settings on my phone xD
23:19:42  <Aristide> broken *
23:19:46  <dihedral> you had an odd sound card :-D
23:19:58  <krinn> soundblaster had that
23:20:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that was pretty standard back then
23:20:12  <Aristide> MIDI > All
23:20:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it was even one of the higher end sound cards
23:20:39  <krinn> yes, soundblaster pro or AWE32 got cd pin
23:20:40  <Aristide>
23:20:42  <Eddi|zuHause> soundblaster AWE 32 (but not the gold one)
23:20:43  <Aristide> <3
23:22:07  <Eddi|zuHause> hm...
23:23:05  <Aristide> So, I must reboot my phone o/
23:23:13  <Aristide> °+°
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23:23:29  <krinn> erf 30k but it look in real good state
23:24:27  <krinn> 128 Beobachter <- bids ?
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23:26:09  <Aristide> ... Update failure
23:26:51  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: no, "Beobachter" is just people who bookmarked the auction
23:27:19  <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: says one person suggested a price
23:29:23  <dihedral> i had a soundblaster, and it did not have that
23:29:39  <NGC3982> Seriosly, Sweden is having the heat wave of it's life.
23:30:02  <NGC3982> It's half past two in the morning, and it's still 26C outside.
23:30:08  <krinn> dihedral, depend on model, pro & awe32 did, i think they drop it for models that comes out after
23:30:23  <dihedral> funny thing is, i had the mentioned models ;-)
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23:30:29  <dihedral> i had no ide on the sound card
23:31:34  <krinn>
23:31:38  <dihedral> i am guessing my soundblaster card was newer :-P
23:31:59  <dihedral> yes krinn i just read about the ide connectors
23:33:18  <Eddi|zuHause> my card even had 3 different kinds of connectors on it
23:33:59  <krinn> sblive was last one i own, after that gravis and keep it until my mb didn't had an iso to put it on :(
23:34:08  <krinn> since then only onboard m/b sound
23:35:45  <dihedral> anyway - it is too late for me, i will need my rest
23:35:48  <dihedral> good night :-)
23:35:55  <krinn> night :)
23:36:43  <Eddi|zuHause> says "mitsumi drive", "creative/panasonic drive" and "sony drive" on the different connectors
23:37:28  <krinn> mitsumi was my first cd :P
23:37:44  <krinn> sold bundle with the starwars thing
23:39:05  <krinn> trying to remember what was that game name, it was amazing (by that time)
23:41:43  <krinn> lol found it
23:41:48  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, the first star wars game i had was "rebel assault"
23:42:02  <krinn> lol yes Eddi|zuHause it was that one i get in the bundle
23:44:20  <Aristide> Cat bus lol
23:45:35  <krinn> :p cute cats
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23:46:32  <Aristide> :)
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23:52:23  <Aristide> krinn:  Reminds me .. . This is the financial crisis. ...
23:52:26  <Aristide> Or not ?
23:52:48  <Aristide> I don't know where TCL get much money ...
23:53:46  <Aristide> 2011 : 80 New Citelis 18, 2012 : 58 New Citelis 12 and 6 Citelis 18, 2013 : 50 citelis 12 and 10 Citelis 18 : 2014 : 60 news Citelis 12
23:54:09  <krinn> i dunno what is TCL?
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23:58:08  <Aristide> Bad wifi ><

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