Log for #openttd on 1st August 2013:
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06:19:19  <planetmaker> moin
06:23:44  <__ln__> moin
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06:29:12  <__ln__> great, my luggage was just brought to my home door
06:29:18  <planetmaker> cool
06:29:42  <planetmaker> I still wonder who misses his towel. No-one complained yet :D
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07:15:44  <Xaroth|Work> I still wonder who would travel without his/her trusty towel
07:19:14  <planetmaker> yeah, unbelievable. And will be a catastrophy at next year's towel day
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07:29:49  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: fonso said it's his, but you can keep it
07:30:27  <planetmaker> I see, thanks. Missed that info
07:30:49  <planetmaker> when did he say so?
07:32:06  <Eddi|zuHause> [Sonntag, 28. Juli 2013] [23:11:30] <fonsinchen>        The towel is mine. You can keep it. It has been used as saddle for the unicorn, though.
07:32:32  <planetmaker> oi, thanks
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07:36:48  <dihedral> good morning
07:36:55  <planetmaker> moin dihedral
07:37:18  <dihedral> :-)
07:37:22  <dihedral> how are you sir?
07:37:43  <planetmaker> someone seems to have turned on again the outside heating. Much to my dismay
07:38:24  <planetmaker> (one can always complain about weather ;-) )
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07:51:01  <SamanthaD> o/
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08:03:06  <dihedral> planetmaker, a world without weather would be terrible :-P
08:03:51  <Twofish> Well - depends on what "non-weather" you would have - and if it would be the same all over ...
08:03:58  <Supercheese> 'night folks
08:04:03  <Twofish> (all over the planet / area / ...)
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08:06:19  <dihedral> Twofish, that is what 'no weather' implies
08:07:38  <Twofish> Guess we had to want constant rain then ... :s
08:08:08  <Twofish> or would that pass over your "no weather" as well :p
08:12:59  <planetmaker> indeed it would, dihedral :-) Better some weather than none :-)
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08:20:26  <SamanthaD> I'd find such a world chokingly difficult to live in
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08:25:03  <dihedral> trying to handle replies from an openttd server when everything is threaded and async..... grrr
08:28:31  <planetmaker> yeah. Let's make it all one core only, one thread only ;-)
08:29:24  <Xaroth|Work> depends on your situation :P
08:30:42  <SamanthaD> dihedral: how important is real-time performance? You could write a routine that caches the replies, assembles them in causal order, and passes them on to the rest of the program?
08:35:01  <AquSe> What proggy you guys talkin' 'bout?
08:35:58  <SamanthaD> AquSe: I'm not entirely sure but I think it's the OpenTTD Coop configuration script
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08:42:40  <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: might have something interesting to show you today
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08:48:02  <planetmaker> :-)
08:48:34  <planetmaker> SamanthaD, an admin port client
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08:49:24  <Xaroth|Work> oddly enough, it's related to that as well :P
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08:50:50  <planetmaker> how odd ;-)
08:51:18  <SamanthaD> Ah, I see... well, hopefully he gets things sorted out without having to thread the entire app
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09:03:34  <dihedral> the app is already threaded
09:04:19  <dihedral> plugins are in separate threads, if a plugin executes a command from another plugin, that is a separate thread
09:04:20  <dihedral> ...
09:04:45  <dihedral> with the aim that no plugin can be capable of killing the main app or another pluing
09:06:56  <SamanthaD> Well, carry on then. Without seeing your code I'd probably just waste your time with more suggestions.
09:07:06  <SamanthaD> good luck!
09:07:16  <dihedral> it's on
09:07:23  <dihedral> search for the projects joan, grapes and berries
09:09:36  <SamanthaD> thanks, I'll have a look through that
09:10:10  <SamanthaD> though, I'm not very good with Java
09:10:14  <SamanthaD> I don't think objectively ;)
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09:17:57  <dihedral> SamanthaD, that just did not make much sense :-P
09:18:17  <dihedral> unless your arms are not joined to your sholders, your toes are all over your body and your brain....
09:18:23  <dihedral> TrueBrain, ^ i did it again :-D
09:18:36  <dihedral> and i quoted the song again :-D
09:20:04  <Xaroth|Work> o_O
09:21:35  <SamanthaD> dihedral: the joke is that Java takes object orientation to an extreme and I find the paradigm unnatural
09:26:19  <AquSe> make everything static huehue
09:34:06  <NeuhNeuh> Python > ALL
09:34:11  <NeuhNeuh> :p
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09:42:26  <SamanthaD> NeuhNeuh: All hail Scheme!
09:42:38  <Aristide> x)
09:42:39  <Aristide> Hi SamanthaD ^^
09:42:47  <SamanthaD> hey Aristide!
09:43:40  <Aristide> =)
09:43:42  <Aristide> How are you today ?
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09:45:21  <Aristide> Ok fail
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09:48:29  <SamanthaD> oh, sorry, I'm doing well! How are you?
09:49:04  <SamanthaD> Sorry, I was playing with my trains and I'm building as fast as possible O.O
09:50:35  <Alberth> stop the time by pausing the game :p
09:51:47  <planetmaker> moin Alberth
09:52:55  <Aristide> xD
09:52:56  <dihedral> Alberth, do you not have to enable a cheat for that? :-P
09:53:49  <AquSe> Not in SP?
09:53:52  <SamanthaD> Alberth: problem isn't time, it's money. I'm only 16 years into a PAX only game
09:54:01  <SamanthaD> starting at 1900... money is tough :p
09:54:07  <Alberth> hi dihedral, not sure, I thought not, you can pause the game without cheating, and afaik enable build while paused in the settings
09:54:28  <SamanthaD> it's a "cheat"
09:54:38  <SamanthaD> one that I always use. I hate feeling rushed
09:54:57  <Alberth> SamanthaD: ok, you play way more often than I am :)
09:55:26  <Alberth> SamanthaD: yeah, money is always a problem that distracts you from building in the start :(
09:55:27  <SamanthaD> :p
09:55:50  <SamanthaD> still, I'm almost ready to link up the last of what is to be my trunk line!
09:56:04  <SamanthaD> still got to set up a couple local feeder lines but... other than that
09:59:56  <AquSe> How do you load a .sav in the dedi server?
10:00:08  <AquSe> It says there's no such file or directory.
10:00:24  <AquSe> I tried putting the save in the same folder as the server and also tried full path.
10:00:26  <AquSe> Doesn't work.
10:03:42  <AquSe> Oh, the server has the file directory already stated.
10:03:55  <AquSe> Need to use cd to move folders.
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10:06:51  <SamanthaD> AquSe: Then you need to use the -R flag
10:06:56  <SamanthaD> cd -R
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10:07:05  <SamanthaD> eeer, cp -R
10:09:18  <AquSe> When it says that a city grows every x days.
10:09:21  <AquSe> How much does it grow?
10:09:24  <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: check my latest commit :)
10:09:24  <AquSe> Like pop wise.
10:09:54  <Xaroth|Work> (note that it requires an extra lib to run)
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10:12:33  <SamanthaD> AquSe: It depends. It just builds new buildings. Depending on the buildings built...
10:12:48  <SamanthaD> AquSe: Also, if it has to build roads PLUS buildings or just buildings
10:14:45  <AquSe> Ah okay
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10:16:01  <planetmaker> hm, Xaroth, what exactly does that script do?
10:16:12  <planetmaker> offer basically the console which I have when I'm server?
10:16:39  <Xaroth|Work> in a way, yes
10:17:12  <Xaroth|Work> python --host=<host> --password=<password> to connect to it (or while running 'set host <host>' 'set password <password>' 'connect' )
10:17:23  <Xaroth|Work> help shows some commands
10:17:37  <Xaroth|Work> it's a work-in-progress
10:17:44  <Xaroth|Work> but I found it done enough to at least share it
10:17:48  <planetmaker> Alberth, <-- she means "in the future as the game progresses". Not in the RL future. Hard to tell, I guess, without a proper translation of the 1st posting
10:18:10  <planetmaker> :-) @ Xaroth
10:21:25  <Xaroth|Work> chat should relay to the console, with say/msg/cmsg you can chat back; rcon obviously, and clients/companies will show the (from the program's perspective) the current short information about them
10:23:12  <planetmaker> aye
10:23:20  <planetmaker> I shall try to give it a try tonight
10:24:37  <Xaroth|Work> probably a bug or 20 in it, so don't expect too much :P
10:25:22  <AquSe> No way to build docks on water canals?
10:26:05  <AquSe> nvm
10:26:08  <AquSe> Just need to raise some lang
10:26:10  <AquSe> nad*
10:26:12  <AquSe> land*
10:26:38  <Pinkbeast> AquSe: Hope you've got plenty of money. :-/
10:27:24  <AquSe> Lol, I did use like 60k.
10:32:39  <AquSe> Oh no, like 30 buses are getting old ):
10:32:43  <AquSe> Bye bye money.
10:33:15  <AquSe> Can you replace buses to their own version?
10:33:22  <AquSe> Because I don't have another passanger bus out.
10:33:32  <Pinkbeast> Autorenew takes care of that.
10:33:50  <Pinkbeast>
10:34:04  <Pinkbeast> The gotcha is you have to keep cash in hand to do it.
10:34:53  <AquSe> Off by default?
10:35:09  <Pinkbeast> AquSe: I don't know. If it's off, turn it on, not to be Captain Obvious.
10:35:18  <AquSe> I know, just askin'.
10:35:37  <Pinkbeast> AquSe: Also, I don't think it interacts perfectly with no-servicing no-breakdowns setups. :-/
10:35:53  <AquSe> Well I could just send all buses for service
10:36:16  <Pinkbeast> Send one for service first to check it works. ;-)
10:38:37  <AquSe> Nope, doesn't work.
10:38:56  <AquSe> Lemme see if I can figure out how to turn it on the dedi.
10:41:01  <Pinkbeast> AquSe: Don't forget that the vehicle age warnings turn up when a vehicle approaches its maximum age, but the setting for autorenew age can be some time after that.
10:42:36  <AquSe> Yeah I see.
10:45:39  <AquSe> The company name has to be in quotes, rite?
10:47:34  <Pinkbeast> No idea
10:47:44  <AquSe> lemme experiment then
10:48:46  <AquSe> ohwai nvm
10:49:00  <AquSe> That's not the name slot, that's where to put it under.
10:49:10  <AquSe> Or rather where it is under.
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10:59:12  <dihedral> Xaroth, there are native chat packets for the admin network - you need not use rcon for that :)
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11:11:08  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: you should check the code...
11:12:14  <dihedral> oh - i messread your line above ;-)
11:12:20  <Xaroth|Work> ;)
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11:35:38  <Elukka>
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11:36:31  <Alberth> too many non-paying passengers? :)
11:36:47  <MNIM> ORLY
11:36:55  <AquSe> Elukka: You can create cow planes? :3
11:37:12  <Elukka> probably, with one of the plane grfs
11:37:16  <Elukka> not my screenshot, just thought it was funny
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11:48:50  <__ln__> planetmaker: what's everyone's share of the food, in €?
11:51:43  <AquSe> Guys, any must-have NewGRFs? Just those that don't make the game easier.
11:51:56  <__ln__> trams
11:52:32  <AquSe> How about eGRVTS?
11:53:21  <__ln__> dunno, all i use is trams.
11:53:48  <AquSe> K, I'll just get the trams for nao.
11:55:58  <AquSe> They auto-load once they're in the newGRF folder, rite?
11:57:10  <AquSe> Nope, they don't need to go into the NewGRF menu too.
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12:13:44  <planetmaker> __ln__, let me find out by how much we sponsor the meeting :-)
12:14:04  <planetmaker> without sponsoring I'd say like 12€ / pp
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12:23:04  <dihedral> planetmaker, that sounds very easy :_)
12:23:16  <dihedral> uh - that smily has a displassed nose
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12:28:42  <SamanthaD> *glee* Grew my city to a pop of 10,000 and the mother of all muni systems is at about 10% capacity!
12:31:33  <AquSe> Anybody know if GRVTS GRF is fairly balanced?
12:34:45  <Alberth> no idea about GRVTS, but in general, a Grf is balanced with itself, and not much else
12:36:24  <AquSe> So you're saying turn off default and only leave the GRF?
12:38:04  <Alberth> how did you come up with that conclusion???
12:38:36  <Alberth> but never mind, the simplest way to find out what you ask is by trying it for yourself
12:39:18  <Alberth> newgrf choices are highly personal, everybody wants something different from them
12:39:46  <Alberth> so there are no universal best or balanced or whatever property you want
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12:51:01  <Belugas> hello
12:51:06  <Alberth> o/
12:51:27  <Belugas> sir Alberth :)
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13:12:47  <SamanthaD> hello Belugas!
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13:21:48  <TWerkhoven> netslpit
13:22:05  <TWerkhoven> 2 irc servers got disconnected from each other
13:22:18  <TWerkhoven> and now theyve made up and reconnected
13:22:57  <AquSe> Ah
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13:26:35  <AquSe> 480 second ping timeout on this server.
13:26:50  <AquSe> Never seen a time out that high @.@
13:29:30  <Alberth> 8 minutes? quite normal, probably some default setting
13:30:06  <TWerkhoven> its not actually shown on all servers though
13:30:12  <TWerkhoven> some networks you just see ping timeout
13:33:05  <AquSe> Is 15 companies the max on a server?
13:33:46  <planetmaker> also without server
13:33:53  <AquSe> Yh
13:39:12  <Belugas> hello SamanthaD :)
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13:44:33  *** ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.3.2 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
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14:02:13  <SamanthaD> how many ticks to a day?
14:02:43  <Eddi|zuHause> 74
14:02:49  <MNIM> Well, assuming a clock ticks twice per second
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14:02:56  <MNIM> that would be 2x60x60x24
14:03:04  <SamanthaD> thank you!
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14:03:14  <SamanthaD> MNIM: I meant game ticks
14:03:38  <MNIM> Which according to my calculator equals 172800
14:03:48  <MNIM> Well, you should've said so!
14:04:00  <MNIM> now I went through all that trouble to take out my calculator!
14:04:19  <Alberth> but we have @calc!
14:05:32  <SamanthaD> I shortcut my calculator to ctrl+c
14:06:38  <TWerkhoven> my keyboard comes with built-in calc
14:06:46  <Alberth> better than shortcircuit :)
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14:13:30  <SamanthaD> yeah, but the calculator that my computer uses has a tape history ;)
14:15:36  <SamanthaD> question: why would modifying the timetabling and vehicle orders code make a save game incompatible?
14:16:05  <SamanthaD> I notice that Slim Timetables changes the savegame version but... I recently removed it and now I'm kicking myself
14:16:19  <SamanthaD> I'd like to import my savegame into a game that has it compiled back in
14:17:24  <SamanthaD> managing my own timetables is DRIVING ME INSANE
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14:34:28  <Lakie> Is there a way to identify if an installed linux kernel is either 32bit or 64bit from within linux?
14:34:43  *** ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.3.2 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
14:34:46  <planetmaker> SamanthaD, a time table needs information stored
14:34:56  <Pinkbeast> Lakie: Installed or running?
14:35:02  <Lakie> running
14:35:07  <planetmaker> Lakie, uname -a should tell you
14:35:14  <planetmaker> i386 vs x86_64
14:35:16  <planetmaker> somewhere
14:35:19  <Lakie> Okay, thankyou. :)
14:35:30  <SamanthaD> planetmaker: ah... oh well... thank you!
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14:37:06  <planetmaker> actually ... uname -m is easier
14:37:41  <planetmaker> or getconf LONG_BIT
14:37:47  <planetmaker> even easier possibly
14:40:04  <Lakie> Heh, okay. Both are quite simple in output. :)
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14:43:00  <SamanthaD> oh well... there goes my game. Twas fun while it lasted I suppose...
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14:45:29  <LordAro> oftc seems to be having trouble today
14:46:00  <SamanthaD> indeed...
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14:50:22  <TWerkhoven> somebody get these servers some relationship advice
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15:04:03  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: seen my last commits for libottdadmin2?
15:04:08  <Xaroth|Work> think some of that could be useful for you too
15:04:56  <Eddi|zuHause> SamanthaD: well if you know exactly what was changed in that savegame version, you can reverse that
15:05:25  <SamanthaD> Eddi|zuHause: thanks but... probably too much work
15:05:25  <TWerkhoven> yeah, ive updated my copy too
15:05:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's easier to just stick to the version it was compiled with
15:06:26  <TWerkhoven> i think instead of making soapclient(adminclient), im gonna copy adminclient into soapclient, and make soapclient(adminconnection)
15:06:27  <Eddi|zuHause> SamanthaD: i recently successfully converted a game that used an old paxdest patch, plus yapp, plus some minor stuff (daylength, etc.)
15:06:37  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: i'm contemplating making the extensions to the AdminClient part of the lib, as in, a TrackingClient
15:06:44  <Xaroth|Work> that keeps track of all clients and companies, etc.
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15:07:55  <TWerkhoven> thats future stuff, right?
15:08:09  <TWerkhoven> nvm, seems i missed an update
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15:09:08  <TWerkhoven> i was thinking a list that contains client_id, name, company_id
15:09:32  <planetmaker> Xaroth, that makes perfect sense to me :-)
15:11:57  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: check class ExtendedAdminConnection in
15:12:01  <Xaroth|Work> it deos exactly that
15:12:07  <TWerkhoven> yeah, im just browsing that
15:12:23  <Xaroth|Work> it sets update frequencies for the right stuff upon connect, so that it can keep track of who's connected etc
15:12:41  <Xaroth|Work> even the date, for as extremely not useful as that information is :P
15:13:08  <TWerkhoven> one could probably poll that on somebody requesting the date
15:14:11  <Xaroth|Work> yeeaaahh.. but that would mean having to do special stuff
15:15:12  <Xaroth|Work> I somewhat do that alreayd with companies and clients joining
15:15:40  <Xaroth|Work> i.e. keep track of who we just saw joining and asked info for, so we can fire clientjoined a 2nd time with proper information
15:17:38  <TWerkhoven> i take it getting serverclientinfo (automatically, not requesting it) before serverclientjoin isnt a given?
15:18:19  <Xaroth|Work> hm, not sure how that works
15:18:49  <TWerkhoven> with all the stuff set to auto, you will receive clientinfo automatically anyway anytime someone joins
15:18:58  <TWerkhoven> just not always before i think
15:19:14  <Xaroth|Work> I didn't get that to work properly, maybe I did something wrong
15:19:17  <TWerkhoven> so you could just loop untill client_id has valid nick in your internal tracker
15:20:29  <TWerkhoven> console seems to mostly copy things which are already sent via other updateTypes btw
15:20:35  <TWerkhoven> hence why i took it out of mine
15:22:37  <Xaroth|Work> I'l be damned
15:22:55  <TWerkhoven> only thing youre really missing is when server is queried with serverbrowser
15:23:16  <Xaroth|Work> yeh, that's not really useful anyhow
15:23:35  <TWerkhoven> now that ive turned it on for a bit, i do notice where all those clienterrors are coming from
15:23:47  <Xaroth|Work> I mean, I'd almost go as far as propose a patch to silence that console message unless debug is set up higher
15:23:57  <Xaroth|Work> clienterrors happen before connecting I think
15:23:59  <Xaroth|Work> for some odd reason
15:24:08  <Xaroth|Work> client connects, disconnects, then connects again and joins
15:24:22  <Xaroth|Work> I -think- that happens when you're in the select-where-you-want-to-join menu
15:24:24  <TWerkhoven> also when serverbrowser queries a server, it doesnt properly disconnect, the connection is just discarded
15:24:30  <TWerkhoven> yes, serverbrowser
15:24:38  <TWerkhoven> and/or companyselection
15:24:41  <Xaroth|Work> aye
15:25:13  <TWerkhoven> i just noticed i got a lot of clienterror 3's, which i think i deciphered into connection_lost
15:25:19  <TWerkhoven> but dont quote me on that
15:26:29  <Xaroth|Work> connection_lost
15:27:29  <Xaroth|Work> network_type.h @ line 104
15:27:34  <TWerkhoven> NETWORK_ERROR_CONNECTION_LOST actually, thats as fas back as i could track it in ottd's src
15:27:46  <Xaroth|Work> yeh
15:27:54  <TWerkhoven> 110
15:28:05  <Xaroth|Work> enum's at 104 ;)
15:28:27  <TWerkhoven> :p
15:28:47  <TWerkhoven> im guessing it takes its number from position in the enum there
15:28:53  <TWerkhoven> network_error_general being -
15:28:54  <TWerkhoven> 0
15:29:00  <Xaroth|Work> yep
15:29:06  <Xaroth|Work> all enums start at 0x00 unless otherwise specified
15:31:36  <Xaroth|Work> I'm adding the enum to
15:33:12  <TWerkhoven> coping from the 1st iteration of libottdadmin, or typing em in again based on ottd's src?
15:33:32  <Xaroth|Work> copy/pasting from ottd source
15:33:34  <TWerkhoven> the 1st lib had a lot more enums already there
15:33:37  <Xaroth|Work> then migrating it to python
15:33:47  <Xaroth|Work> yeah, I kinda went over-the-top there
15:34:07  <Xaroth|Work> back when I had my obsession with using \t instead of spaces....
15:36:19  <TWerkhoven> it *is* neatly aligned
15:38:27  <Xaroth|Work> severely depends on how big you set your tabs :P
15:38:45  <Xaroth|Work> looks like crap on all but the one you used back then :P
15:38:51  <Xaroth|Work> with spaces it -always- looks neat
15:38:58  <TWerkhoven> i think i have my notepad set to convert all tabs to 4 spaces
15:39:07  <Xaroth|Work> and IDEs like sublime text can convert automatically
15:40:41  <Xaroth|Work> old code was, iirc, set to 8
15:40:53  <Xaroth|Work> using 4, it looks a bit wobbly
15:41:59  <Xaroth|Work> added ErrorCode and Colour enums
15:42:05  <TWerkhoven> i just went with some python guidelines i found somewhere
15:42:16  <Xaroth|Work> I highly advise Sublime Text 3
15:42:20  <TWerkhoven> i think i used 2 spaces last time i coded c++
15:42:33  <Xaroth|Work> it's a real lightweight and smooth editor
15:42:35  <TWerkhoven> i use notepad++ atm, but sublime does look a good competitor
15:42:44  <Xaroth|Work> it's sooo much smoother for me
15:43:17  <TWerkhoven> i didnt realize text editors had fps issues
15:43:25  <TWerkhoven> unless your running word on a 386 maybe
15:43:56  <Xaroth|Work> try scrolling through a file with hundreds upon hundreds of lines of code
15:44:08  <TWerkhoven> yeah, the preview pane looks nice
15:44:38  <TWerkhoven> though by that time i tend to sue ctrl+f, or scroll to the linenumber depending on what im looking for
15:44:55  <Xaroth|Work> F12 for me
15:45:00  <Xaroth|Work> find definition
15:48:01  <TWerkhoven> notepad++ seems a tad cheaper
15:48:09  <Xaroth|Work> sublime is free
15:48:17  <Xaroth|Work> it's a bit like winrar
15:48:28  <TWerkhoven> annoyware?
15:48:37  <Xaroth|Work> meh, every umzeenth save it asks you to buy
15:48:43  <Xaroth|Work> hit esc, continue
15:49:02  <Xaroth|Work> though I am tempted at buying it at some point
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15:51:26  <TWerkhoven> i might try it
15:51:41  <TWerkhoven> not worth any money just to work on soap
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16:04:50  <TWerkhoven> btw, whilst your adding enums, could you add enums for NetworkAction? (that determines what the other parameters of adminchat packets mean)
16:05:00  <TWerkhoven> network_type.h again
16:05:22  <TWerkhoven> nvm, its Action
16:06:50  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone besides me having an issue with sshfs crashing every odd day?
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16:33:22  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there are a dozen paremeters to sshfs
16:34:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i just do "sshfs source target", and have been doing that for years, just the past few weeks it started to randomly exit
16:34:39  <frosch123> it depends on what features the software uses, with which you access the filesystem
16:34:54  <frosch123> scp (which sshfs) uses, does not support everything
16:35:04  <frosch123> take a look at the "-o workaround= ..." stuff
16:35:30  <Eddi|zuHause> so it might be a new program i'm using that accesses the stuff weirdly?
16:35:39  <frosch123> e.g. when working with subversion in a checkout via sshfs, it is completely normal that you need -o workaround=rename
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17:02:50  <AquSe> What's the equivalent of Java's arraylist in Python?
17:03:38  <megakacktus> I haven't done python in a while but I believe it's a list() object :-/
17:04:49  <AquSe> Oh yea it is, thx.
17:05:15  <megakacktus> np
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17:33:13  <andythenorth> cdist for freight is bonkers
17:33:16  <andythenorth> in an interesting way
17:34:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't had any problems with it. except there's no incentive to connect more secondary industries
17:36:20  <andythenorth> I am trying mixed trains
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17:36:26  <andythenorth> with lots of implicit orders
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17:36:36  <andythenorth> on long routes
17:36:47  <andythenorth> get some interesting link graphs :P
17:36:58  <Wolf01> hello
17:37:00  <andythenorth> curious decisions about where to unload
17:37:03  <andythenorth> it's all very fun though
17:37:59  <andythenorth> adding autorefit is a whole extra dimension
17:38:18  <Alberth> o/ Wolf01 andythenorth
17:38:27  <andythenorth> o/
17:40:35  <andythenorth> cdist seems to work quite well with FIRS supplies
17:40:55  <andythenorth> although it removes some of the point of them wrt managing cargo inputs
17:41:16  <andythenorth> hmm
17:41:20  <andythenorth> gtg bye
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17:45:53  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25644 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2013-08-01 17:45:41 UTC)
17:45:54  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:55  <DorpsGek> catalan - 21 changes by juanjo
17:45:56  <DorpsGek> dutch - 2 changes by habell
17:45:57  <DorpsGek> estonian - 73 changes by KSiimson
17:45:58  <DorpsGek> polish - 2 changes by wojteks86
17:45:59  <DorpsGek> spanish - 12 changes by juanjo
17:46:00  <DorpsGek> thai - 7 changes by sf_alpha
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17:52:51  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: yes, it's Action
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18:01:36  <dudel> hello
18:02:03  <Alberth> hello
18:02:47  <dudel> i got a question. i like the chill patch pack, cause it got the copy/paste thingy in it. but its for such an old version, is there anything close to it for a newer one?
18:04:05  <Eddi|zuHause> there's the russian "spring 2013" patchpack, which may or may not be anywhere near stable (as in it does or does not crash)
18:06:00  <dudel> but when its russian, can i use it for english version? and does it have the copy/paste? i rly like it for stations/junctions ect. as im liking to buidl those symmetry anyway and i do not play often enough to rember all the different build ups
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18:06:47  <Eddi|zuHause> just because it's made by russians doesn't mean it can't use other translations
18:06:52  <Alberth>  have a look yourself, I don't know what it contains
18:07:36  <SamanthaD> is there any way I can get cargodist to not pile cargo on a station with a bad connection?!
18:08:09  <Eddi|zuHause> don't have stations with bad connections :p
18:08:11  <Alberth> give it alternative routes
18:08:36  <SamanthaD> they do have alternative routes
18:08:51  <SamanthaD> it's just that I have a long chain of train stations with a lousy airport at each end
18:09:04  <dudel> ty, looks quite interesting but unfortunaly it doesnt have copy paste :(
18:09:08  <SamanthaD> and the trains are grabbing the cargo and dumping it at the airports, FAR exceeding what the airports can handle
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18:09:31  <Alberth> add more airports at both ends :)
18:09:46  <SamanthaD> hmm... alright
18:09:48  <Eddi|zuHause> dudel: then you're probably better of learning to compile yourself and update the copy-paste patch
18:09:59  <SamanthaD> though... the only airport I have access to is "small airport"
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18:10:03  <Pinkbeast> cargodist will eventually figure out the link has low capacity
18:10:04  <Alberth> cdist will nicely distributes the flow over the different airports
18:10:21  <dudel> sounds complicted :)
18:10:22  <Eddi|zuHause> SamanthaD: cargodist and planes don't mix well
18:10:26  <SamanthaD> oh, it will? good, so I'll just wait then and see if it resolves it self
18:10:32  <Pinkbeast> But pax have to be sent _somewhere_ - if this link is the only one available, they'll use it.
18:11:15  <Alberth> SamanthaD: you know you can see the capacity use both in the minimap and in the main view?
18:11:33  <SamanthaD> Alberth: yup! Gotta love it!
18:11:55  <SamanthaD> oh, you're right
18:12:07  <SamanthaD> Cargodist hasn't quite figured out that it's overloaded it to the point of absurdity
18:12:16  <SamanthaD> ... yet
18:12:21  <Pinkbeast> SamanthaD: Do the offending pax have anywhere _else_ to go?
18:13:08  <Alberth> cdist is bad at handling changes in the connections, it takes a long time to change
18:13:15  <SamanthaD> Pinkbeast: yes. See, I have this huge 20,000 pop city with a major train station at one end and the airport at the other. Local trains connect them. The other airport is connected to the main train station at the other end
18:13:42  <SamanthaD> actually... it's connected to a train station that feeds the main train station
18:13:44  <SamanthaD> details
18:14:00  <Pinkbeast> That's odd, you'd expect most pax to make local journeys...
18:14:08  <SamanthaD> they do
18:14:16  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a setting for that
18:14:17  <SamanthaD> as I said... 20,000 population city ;)
18:14:28  <SamanthaD> it generates an obscene amount of PAX
18:14:35  <Alberth> :)
18:14:44  <SamanthaD> I know, I love it n_n
18:14:51  <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: Indeed. But beyond that, cargodist is meant to work with the link capacities actually available...
18:15:01  <Eddi|zuHause> SamanthaD: there isn't really any solution besides throwing more capacity at it
18:15:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: but it can't adjust the passenger generation
18:15:22  <Pinkbeast> Or give them somewhere else to go?
18:15:23  <SamanthaD> Eddi|zuHause: Thanks, I'll do that!
18:15:37  <Eddi|zuHause> so eventually the people are piling up at the weakest link in the network
18:15:42  <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: Yes, but why don't they mostly make journeys internal to the city?
18:15:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: "effect of distance on demand"
18:16:23  <SamanthaD> Pinkbeast: They *ARE* mostly making journeys internal to the city. Perhaps you don't quite have a grasp on how much PAX a city that size generates.
18:16:35  <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but it's meant to work with the link capacities actually available... we've just gone around in a circle, with you telling me about an option I already know about.
18:16:46  <Pinkbeast> SamanthaD: Actually it may surprise you to learn I have played the game before.
18:16:55  <SamanthaD> cool :3
18:17:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: but load balancing can only work if there are leftover capacities anywhere. if everything is congested, no amount of link shifting will work
18:17:55  <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: But there is a leftover capacity here; send pax locally inside the city.
18:18:26  <Pinkbeast> "distance on demand" is meant to determine what happens when links aren't full - how much should we send down a long link vs a short one.
18:18:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: you're thinking backwards. first, passengers are generated, then passengers get a destination, then they look for a link towards that destination
18:18:40  <SamanthaD> by the way, what's generally better: one international airport or two metro airports?
18:19:32  <Eddi|zuHause> "the train to Berlin is always so full, i go to Munich instead" is not how it works
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18:19:59  <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: with humans, but OTTD pax aren't humans - and absent cargodist they're like lumps of coal. But indeed, I was mistaken.
18:20:24  <Pinkbeast> I was thinking of very old stabs at cargodist where pax still had _no_ volition, so they'd go wherever there was capacity.
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18:21:45  <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: Sorry, my misunderstanding.
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19:10:36  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: you know this; on new map, all admin clients are disconnected?
19:11:32  <Xaroth|Work> ah, nm, found it
19:11:36  <Xaroth|Work> only on non-dedicated servers
19:22:01  <TWerkhoven> on dedicated, all you get is a new welcome packet afaik
19:29:57  <Xaroth|Work> you get two, actually
19:30:12  <Xaroth|Work> a shutdown, followed by a new map
19:30:24  <Xaroth|Work> if not dedicated
19:30:26  <Xaroth|Work> it's just a shutdown
19:30:29  <Xaroth|Work> followed by a disconnect
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19:32:12  <dihedral> Xaroth, interesting
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19:35:20  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: at least, that's what the code looks to me
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19:35:44  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: going to change the behavior of poll in the new tracking admin a tad, that it does multiple packets at once if there's time
19:35:49  <Xaroth|Work> it always breaks off after timeout
19:36:01  <planetmaker> __ln__, I guess the meeting is free of charge for you (and all others)
19:36:09  <dihedral> i wonder what causes the different behaviour
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19:36:24  <fjb> Moin
19:36:32  <dihedral> i would assume closing sockets, but that's just a wild guess and with that i could of course be totally off, also
19:36:35  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: non-dedidated clients stop being a server during a map restart
19:36:46  <dihedral> planetmaker, you guys rock
19:36:49  <Xaroth|Work> dedicated clients do not
19:36:58  <Xaroth|Work> they just start a new map as per the config, and start
19:37:22  <dihedral> hmmm
19:37:34  <dihedral> at least you get the shutdown packet :-D
19:37:38  <__ln__> planetmaker: alright, cool
19:38:03  <Xaroth|Work> yeh
19:38:13  <Xaroth|Work> ooh, this works nice
19:38:33  <Xaroth|Work> now it just tries to empty the recv queue in the time given
19:38:40  <dihedral> actually i consider it odd though for non dedicated clients do open the admin port
19:38:44  <dihedral> it's like... why?
19:38:48  <Xaroth|Work> rather look if there's 1 packet to receive, and receive that one (not caring for any other packet)
19:38:59  <Xaroth|Work> dihedral: dunno
19:39:18  <dihedral> i mean - why would you have admin connected to non dedicated :-P
19:39:30  <dihedral> I find it silly
19:39:31  <Xaroth|Work> no idea
19:39:39  <Xaroth|Work> but, why not? :P
19:41:00  <TWerkhoven> same goes for rcon, does rcon work on non-dedicated server?
19:41:25  <TWerkhoven> course, you might run the server on your home pc, but still want to admin it from work when your not actually near the pc
19:42:16  <TWerkhoven> or when you switch to laptop even
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19:56:02  <TWerkhoven> Xaroth: in, class ClientID, you may wish to add ALL = 0xFFFFFFFF #< For requesting clientInfo on all clients
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19:58:07  <dihedral> TWerkhoven, if you want to run a server ... you should use a dedicated one :-P
19:58:33  <TWerkhoven> most ppl would do so yes
19:58:52  <TWerkhoven> but you always have to anticipate those few that dont do as the masses
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20:06:52  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: done
20:08:07  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: what i'm working on now:
20:08:57  <Xaroth|Work> like, the admin connection i used for the openttd-admin.pu script, only made from scratch, and cleaned up a lot
20:09:16  <Xaroth|Work> decorator funkyness to reduce the amount of useless lines :)
20:10:14  <dihedral> q
20:10:17  <dihedral> ops
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20:18:12  <AquSe> How the hell do you create a new object/instance of in Python? Equivalent of class1 obj1 = new class1() in Java. Python channel ain't responding QQ
20:18:30  <Xaroth|Work> obj = Klass()
20:18:30  <Alberth> obj1 = class1()
20:18:51  <Alberth> no useless 'new' clutter :)
20:19:01  <Xaroth|Work> no useless type naming either :P
20:19:09  <Xaroth|Work> x = Klass1() ; x = Klass2()
20:19:11  <Xaroth|Work> like a baws
20:19:12  <AquSe> Ah now it works :)
20:19:16  <AquSe> I just didn't do the paranthesis :3
20:19:26  <AquSe> Fail )::
20:19:32  <Xaroth|Work> heh
20:19:44  <Alberth> AquSe: the class is also an object :p
20:19:54  <AquSe> Yea
20:19:54  <Xaroth|Work> just like a function is an object :P
20:20:17  <AquSe> Well I meant instance.
20:20:44  <Xaroth|Work> wait until you get to decorators
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20:21:25  <AquSe> Never heard of them b4, lemme guugle
20:21:48  <Xaroth|Work> check the link I put up
20:21:55  <Xaroth|Work> all the @handles_packet  lines are decorators
20:23:58  * dihedral likes java ;-(
20:24:14  * Xaroth|Work doesn't
20:25:06  <AquSe> I'm just making something in Python, I don't know why I decided to make it in Python instead of Java that I already know.
20:25:38  <AquSe> Well, gotta learn it somehow.
20:25:48  <Alberth> to understand Python? :)
20:25:54  <AquSe> Yea :3
20:26:00  <Xaroth|Work> python is fun
20:27:03  <Alberth> java works better for large programs (50,000+ lines Python), and runs a LOT faster
20:27:19  <Xaroth|Work> java -can- run a lot faster
20:28:12  <Alberth> if you build the same program in python and in java, java will win
20:28:20  <Xaroth|Work> depends
20:28:39  <Xaroth|Work> pypy/cython can help a lot
20:28:53  <Xaroth|Work> python => C => epic speeds
20:28:56  <Xaroth|Work> .. if you do it properly
20:29:14  <AquSe> Btw, in Python what's the ".this" If you for example pass down link1 and you have link1 declared and want to set the link1 that you passed down to link1 that is in.
20:29:19  <Xaroth|Work> self
20:29:29  <Xaroth|Work> check my link; notice all class methods have self as first arg
20:29:52  <AquSe> And does anybody know what's up with #Python on Free-Node, it redirects me to #Python-Unregistered and I can't deliver messaged.
20:29:58  <AquSe> Xaroth: Okey
20:30:07  <Alberth> AquSe: there is no implicit this, you have to give it as first argument to the methods. By convention it is 'self'
20:30:08  <Xaroth|Work> you need to register your nick
20:30:15  <AquSe> Mm but I did.
20:30:22  * Xaroth|Work shrugs
20:30:25  <murr4y> then you need to authenticate
20:30:29  <Alberth> then you need to identify yourself :)
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20:30:32  <AquSe> Says I'm already logged in
20:30:32  <AquSe> lol
20:32:08  <Alberth> ask nickserv about the state of your nick
20:32:43  <AquSe> o
20:35:05  <AquSe> Ded IRC, ded channel.
20:35:15  <AquSe> Ima just go to their support channel.
20:35:29  * Xaroth|Work SHRUGS
20:35:33  <Xaroth|Work> doh, caps
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20:47:51  <frosch123> night
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21:07:44  <planetmaker> he, I guess results will be pretty bad, if I boot from USB disk and then unplug it ;-)
21:07:52  *** AquSe [] has quit []
21:07:58  <Xaroth|Work> depends
21:08:07  <Xaroth|Work> if your system can load it all in ram before disconnecting
21:08:10  <Xaroth|Work> .. and can run from ram
21:09:00  <planetmaker> I somehow doubt that all of osx 10.4 fits in 2GB ram
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21:10:42  <krinn> path signal: why a train wait a free path while it is alone in the line ?
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21:11:06  <planetmaker> not entirely free?
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21:11:12  <planetmaker> wrong track type?
21:11:21  <krinn> ah maybe checking
21:11:38  <planetmaker> krinn, enable the highlight of reserved tracks
21:11:41  <planetmaker> might tell you sth
21:14:04  <krinn> bingo: wrong railtype
21:14:19  <krinn> sad for me so, must find how i made this now :)
21:38:38  <krinn> build rail station electric, build other electric, pathfind and build non electric path between them... nearly good :P
21:39:28  <krinn> and it was working as AI was money short it pickup a diesel engine... until it have the money to change the train, and tada
21:39:47  <planetmaker> lol
21:40:37  <krinn> now i have 80 trains, mixed railtypes and engines, lmao unmanageable, poor ai :)
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22:00:17  <Xaroth|Work> right.. that's the first bit
22:02:52  <Xaroth|Work> TWerkhoven: pushed the first part of the tracking client
22:05:55  <Xaroth|Work> needs some fleshing out still
22:07:24  <dihedral> night
22:07:28  <Xaroth|Work> nn
22:08:00  <TWerkhoven> looks good so far xaroth
22:08:05  <TWerkhoven> gnite
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22:27:32  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:42:51  <Xaroth|Work> hm
22:42:57  <Xaroth|Work> i think I'm getting wrong data somewhere
22:42:58  <Xaroth|Work> 'income': 18446744073709550282L
22:43:30  <Xaroth|Work> on second note
22:43:35  <Xaroth|Work> it's now accurate, wth
22:44:26  <glx> wrong order of reading bytes ?
22:44:38  <Xaroth|Work> probably
22:44:47  <Xaroth|Work> probably uint/int mixup
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22:59:27  <Xaroth|Work> yep
22:59:39  <Xaroth|Work> Money is sent as an uint64, but it's an int64
22:59:41  <Xaroth|Work> figures
23:00:00  <krinn> i think mosquitos here are feet lovers, i also think that anti-mosquito thing i brought isn't working
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23:02:30  <krinn> dunno why tarente aren't there this year :(
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