Log for #openttd on 6th November 2013:
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00:00:07  <LeandroL> question: any tips for getting extra mail in my terminals/airports?
00:00:22  <LeandroL> I've been playing online lately and my bottleneck for city growth is always mail
00:00:31  <Rubidium> transfer + no loading
00:00:51  <Rubidium> okay... I'm getting too annoying and ought to go to bed
00:01:24  <LeandroL> is it worth building 4 or 5 truck terminals on small towns to gather mail across town and transfer it to the town airport?
00:01:40  <LeandroL> say a town with population 1000 that i'm already servicing with an airport
00:02:02  <LeandroL> is it worth building truck stations to gather mail from across town and transfer it to the airport?
00:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
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00:04:47  <LeandroL> sweet. thanks!
00:04:53  <Eddi|zuHause> although airplanes are imho hopeless if your aim is to transport the most cargo
00:05:31  <LeandroL> i go with airplanes because they're the most profitable
00:05:36  <LeandroL> especially at the beginning of the game
00:05:52  <LeandroL> have in mind that i'm playing very short citybuilder games
00:05:53  <Eddi|zuHause> that they are good at
00:06:07  <LeandroL> first company with population 3000 or 4000 wins
00:06:14  <LeandroL> short and sweet :)
00:06:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't like short games
00:07:02  <LeandroL> it's a matter of personal taste i guess
00:07:22  <LeandroL> i like playing many short games and trying different strategies until i find something that works
00:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause> play 100 years at daylength x8 over several months :)
00:08:01  <LeandroL> we're at opposite sides of the spectrum
00:09:17  <Eddi|zuHause> connect all towns and industries with cargodist and get enough capacity to move all cargos (especially passengers)
00:09:40  * LeandroL is googling cargodist
00:10:10  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a new feature in nightlies (1.4)
00:10:13  <LeandroL> oh that sounds incredibly useful
00:10:42  <LeandroL> i thought what cargodist implements was default behavior until i realized it is not. it was very frustrating
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00:12:24  <Eddi|zuHause> this is the result of the last game i played (although that is quite a while ago now),%2013.%20Apr%202027.png (12MB)
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00:15:59  <LeandroL> that's insane
00:16:03  <LeandroL> those cities are beautiful btw
00:16:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the beaty of this game, everybody is a different kind of insane :p
00:17:07  <NGC3982> BRIDGES.
00:17:08  <LeandroL> :)
00:17:11  <NGC3982> :D.
00:17:36  <LeandroL> one thing i was surprised when i first started playing this game is the lack of highways
00:18:14  <LeandroL> highways would look pretty cool in a crowded city
00:18:30  <glx> vehicles rarely overtake
00:18:48  <LeandroL> true
00:18:54  <LeandroL> and if they do, you're probably doing something wrong
00:19:04  <Eddi|zuHause> highways might look beautiful, but they're not very useful in this game
00:19:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but i haven't played a heavy road game yet
00:19:45  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a "dutch highway set" (eyecandy only) though
00:19:48  <LeandroL> roads are very profitable in small games
00:19:55  <LeandroL> i.e. 64x64, 64x128
00:20:05  <LeandroL> compared to trains, that is
00:20:13  <glx> of course there's no place for trains then
00:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that image above is the smallest game i ever played for a significant amount of time
00:20:34  <LeandroL> in a 64x128 game there might be space for some trains
00:20:46  <LeandroL> Eddi|zuHause: what are the dimensions?
00:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause> that's 128x256 i believe
00:20:56  <glx> true, but in 64x64 there's not
00:21:06  <LeandroL> glx: no, there really isn't
00:21:15  <glx> and usually some industries are missing too
00:21:19  <LeandroL> i tried building trains in a 64x64 game but they're not really profitable
00:21:28  <LeandroL> and it limits city growth
00:21:39  <glx> distances are too short for trains
00:21:50  <LeandroL> and you have to build lots of bridges and tunnels which make trains even less efficient
00:21:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember a (miniin?) test game where i tested some PBS bug
00:22:03  <LeandroL> Eddi|zuHause: btw i love how pines look in that map
00:22:21  <LeandroL> Eddi|zuHause: are you one of the developers?
00:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause> not really
00:23:11  <Eddi|zuHause> as in "i did write a handful of (smaller) patches" but "i don't have commit access to the repository"
00:23:24  <LeandroL> you're a contributor then
00:23:25  <LeandroL> that's cool
00:24:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i do talk a lot and sometimes people get the idea to listen to me, though :)
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00:27:01  <juzza1> Eddi|zuHause: what trees are those in your screenshot?
00:27:39  <Eddi|zuHause> juzza1: you can read the grf list in the metadata (like with exiftool)
00:28:13  <juzza1> ok
00:28:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe it's called "treesw.grf", (a variant of "stolentrees") but i have a feeling it's not really accessible anymore
00:29:17  <juzza1> okay
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00:31:40  <glx> luckily the map is not too big for a giant screenshot ;)
00:42:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the reasons i played such a rather small map
00:43:17  <Supercheese> Hmm, compile troubles with most recent New Map Features
00:43:27  <Eddi|zuHause> (because it's a patched build and few people could load a savegame)
00:43:29  <Supercheese> 'unique_ptr' : is not a member of 'std'
00:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause> ask in the patch thread?
00:44:13  <Eddi|zuHause> although that sounds like a library problem
00:44:39  <Supercheese> Seemingly dealing with C++11 features
00:45:00  <Supercheese> so compiler issue, even
00:45:45  <Eddi|zuHause> the language specs don't cover the compiler only
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00:50:46  <juzza1> found the tree newgrfs at simuscape, is someone else is interested
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00:58:16  <Supercheese> Might have to switch compilers :S
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08:18:29  <DJGummikuh> hello!
08:18:48  <Supercheese> Salutations
08:18:55  <DJGummikuh> one quick question, I'm just trying to get this admin port thingy to working. however, the server does not state that it's listening on port 3977 during startup and I also am not able to connect as it seems
08:18:59  <DJGummikuh> am I missing something obvious here?
08:19:39  <DJGummikuh> I configured the admin password in .oppenttd/openttd.cfg and started the whole rig
08:19:57  <DJGummikuh> I even added to server_bind_adresses as per your wiki stating that the admin interface only listens to localhost otherwise
08:20:47  <Supercheese> I cannot answer that, sorry, I've never done network/multiplayer stuff
08:21:06  <DJGummikuh> mmh ok seems I already found the issue...
08:21:39  <DJGummikuh> :-/ I'm trying to connect to this admin port by using grapes on my machine... but grapes keeps insisting that it cannot properly connect
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08:32:29  <DJGummikuh> MEH what am I doing wrong?
08:32:43  <DJGummikuh> what does it take to make openttd open that damn admin port?
08:41:32  <DJGummikuh> I am so smart! SMRT!
08:41:54  <DJGummikuh> I edited the openttd.cfg while the server was still running
08:42:03  <DJGummikuh> then when I shut it down for restart it overwrote the config with its own old one....
08:42:05  <Supercheese> and then it gets overwritten on close
08:42:07  <Supercheese> yep
08:42:21  <DJGummikuh> very intuitive :)
08:49:08  <Xaroth|Work> lolz
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09:58:05  <LuHa> hello :D
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10:00:48  *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ
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10:01:40  *** mode/#openttd [+o pm] by ChanServ
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10:09:11  <DJGummikuh> hey where do I find support for grapes?
10:09:45  <pm> dihedral, is the author for grapes
10:09:53  <DJGummikuh> dihedral are you there?
10:09:56  <DJGummikuh> *ping*
10:09:57  <DJGummikuh> :)
10:11:28  <pm> DJGummikuh, better put a meaningful question in a highlight if the person is not around right now
10:12:01  <DJGummikuh> mh agreed. however, at the moment the question for availability (given that he has no |away or similar at his nick) was meaningful enough for me ;)
10:12:04  <pm> otherwise it's just annoying if one sees a highlight eight hours later - and it's just a 'where are you'. Well, not here obviously ;-)
10:12:16  <DJGummikuh> in addition, he's from germany so he should be awake at the moment
10:12:32  <pm> yeah. And at work thus
10:13:14  <DJGummikuh> mh.. that's not really an issue I would assume ;)
10:13:17  <DJGummikuh> anyways.
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10:23:12  <Xaroth|Work> DJGummikuh: not everybody can chat while at work :)
10:24:45  <planetmaker> at least not always :-)
10:24:47  <DJGummikuh> dihedral: I'm trying to wrap my head around grapes. Is there any tutorial on how to create a plugin? Or would it be easier to just use grape as a library?
10:25:11  <DJGummikuh> dihedral: I have my chat running in screen, so if you can answer, just pm me with the answer please
10:25:46  <planetmaker> grapes consists of berries. Berries are the plug-ins for grapes
10:25:57  <planetmaker> there's at least one demo plug-in in that sub-project
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10:28:58  <DJGummikuh> is down? I can't connect to that server
10:29:29  <planetmaker> we lost connection to our server a few minutes ago. We're busy to start-up that stuff which failed to restart automatically
10:30:03  <planetmaker> try in a few minutes. Sorry for the inconvenience
10:30:50  <DJGummikuh> oh ok. I already assumed it's my shitty internet :)
10:36:54  <planetmaker> should work again
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11:06:08  <DJGummikuh> mmh is there a documentation about the berries api?
11:07:06  <Xaroth|Work> somewhere on the bush
11:07:13  <Xaroth|Work> next to the shrubberies
11:09:03  <LordAro> quak
11:12:32  <frosch123> moin
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11:27:33  <LuHa> hi, i have some question.
11:28:05  <LuHa> i coding some fixture. but i don't know hot can submit it.
11:28:48  <LuHa> i just upload flyspray. it's correct?
11:30:12  <frosch123> yup
11:30:27  <LuHa> frosch123: wow, thx
11:30:40  <frosch123> just don't expect it to be handled fast :p
11:30:40  <LuHa> and how can i talk in
11:45:56  <DJGummikuh> ok someone can give me a serious hint on where to look for support with berries? I can't seem to find a project page that has more than 1 3year old ticket  on it for berries
11:46:52  <frosch123> here or devzone project, that's all there is
11:47:01  <frosch123> there are not many people messing with admin port
11:48:03  <DJGummikuh> earlier someone mentioned a demo project - I can't even seem to find that...
11:48:43  <DJGummikuh> frosch123: why not? it's an awesome additin from my point of view
11:50:38  <frosch123> no idea, i think there are < 10 people who ever used it
11:50:54  <frosch123> and half of them wanted to use a different programming language, so started over from scratch
11:51:04  <frosch123> there is java, python, c#, c++, ...
11:51:16  <frosch123> likely the latter 2 didn't even start up though
11:51:20  <DJGummikuh> well java is perfect for me :)
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11:56:10  <DJGummikuh> on what is the protocol based anyways? plaintext? rcp?packet enums?
11:56:43  <planetmaker> DJGummikuh, 'grapes' is the actual demo project. It uses the java lib 'joan' and plug-ins from 'berries'
11:57:54  <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: the 2nd starts up :)
11:58:11  <planetmaker> afaik c#, too. But it's closed-source
11:58:15  <Xaroth|Work> laaaame :P
11:58:16  <planetmaker> and not available for download either
11:58:22  <planetmaker> afaik
11:58:25  <Xaroth|Work> even more laaaame :p
11:58:29  <planetmaker> yeah
12:00:05  <planetmaker> DJGummikuh, the documentation of graphes/berries/joan might be a bit older. But it is being worked on, albeit a slow pace - according to commit logs
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12:14:40  <DJGummikuh> mmh.. ok but grapes seems to have no joan classes incorporated oO or is the package naming inconsistent here?
12:28:31  <DJGummikuh> wtf I keep getting Connection timed out
12:28:34  <DJGummikuh> even though the port is open
12:35:57  <DJGummikuh> hmm my server can't reach the master openttd server?
12:36:14  <DJGummikuh> dbg: [net] [udp] sendto([]:3978 (IPv6)) failed with: 101
12:38:18  <DJGummikuh> yay nice, beginning to work
12:40:21  <DJGummikuh> Now is there a way that I can send a Message to the server without the format name:message?
12:40:31  <DJGummikuh> like a broadcast message if you like?
12:41:42  <DJGummikuh> 'say blah' always prepends the name of the sender..
12:41:52  <DJGummikuh> I can alter that but that is also logged in the client and I don't want that
12:43:31  <DJGummikuh> haha nice :) [net]      [admin] Rcon command from 'Simple Console' (0.1): 'kick 1'
12:43:34  <DJGummikuh> ERROR: Silly boy, you can not kick yourself!
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12:55:42  <Xaroth|Work> there is
12:55:54  <Xaroth|Work> not sure how joan does that
12:56:14  <Xaroth|Work> but libottdadmin2 does it
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13:03:04  <nex259> Hi
13:07:48  <MNIM> planetmaker: forgive me for ignorance, because I haven't checked lately, but has a form of cargodist made it into trunk/stable yet?
13:09:13  <frosch123> trunk, 3 months ago
13:09:48  <MNIM> oh. cool.
13:17:13  <nex259> I cannot view/edit Japanese translation... my WT3 account settting is broken?
13:17:27  <MNIM> Hmmmh.
13:20:36  <MNIM> frosch123: where are the related settings?
13:20:39  <planetmaker> nex259, what's your registered user name?
13:21:06  <nex259> "nex259"
13:21:10  <planetmaker> MNIM, adv. settings -> cargodist
13:21:13  <planetmaker> iirc
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13:21:53  <planetmaker> that person has editor access, thus nothing should have changed on our part, nex259
13:21:54  <MNIM> 0.o
13:21:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't used "stable" cargodist yet, but it was "linkgraph settings" or something
13:22:04  <MNIM> something must be wrong, because I can't find it
13:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: set the filter to settings for "advanced" and not "basic"?
13:24:11  <planetmaker> nex259, sometimes login is a bit... weired. Login normally. And then enter the manually again in the browser address bar
13:25:03  <MNIM> It's set to all settings, still can't find.
13:25:18  <MNIM> I'm starting to wonder if I updated correctly. :/
13:25:54  <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: easiest check: the title bar at the main menu
13:25:56  <planetmaker> you're not trying 1.3.2, yes?
13:26:23  <planetmaker> what's the version of OpenTTD you run?
13:26:57  <nex259> hmm...
13:28:40  <MNIM> 1.3.2
13:29:05  <planetmaker> MNIM, well. That's not trunk
13:29:07  <nex259> login success, and view other languages is no problem,but only Japanese is not
13:29:08  <planetmaker> get a nightly
13:29:27  <MNIM> ooooh.
13:29:46  <planetmaker> nex259, 'edit' menu on top does not teleport you to editing Japanese?
13:30:12  <planetmaker> @ nex259
13:31:05  <MNIM> Bleh. I thought it would've migrated into the releases by now.
13:31:31  <planetmaker> then we would have said so... but we said "trunk" ;-)
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13:32:15  <nex259> teleport is success, but dont display any translation
13:32:53  <planetmaker> o_O
13:33:07  <planetmaker> you are right, nex259
13:33:10  <nex259> and "XML error" message shown
13:33:11  <planetmaker> it's not your login
13:33:19  <MNIM> planetmaker: ah. I kinda used trunk/releases interchangeably. didn't realize there was a difference
13:33:41  <planetmaker> trunk = development version
13:33:48  <planetmaker> development version != release
13:34:23  <nex259> "HTTP Error: no XML data received"...
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13:39:03  <planetmaker> yeah. I see that. It might take a few hours fix that at least, nex259. The people who have permission to access the relevant part of the webtranslator are currently not online
13:40:08  <planetmaker> thanks a lot for pointing out that bug
13:40:16  <nex259> thanks
13:43:46  <planetmaker> hm, I see that you actually reported that *one month* ago...
13:45:35  <planetmaker> and you reported it well and in the right place :S
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15:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause> anybody besides me confused about planetmaker changing colours?
15:42:28  <frosch123> when did he change colour?
15:42:53  <frosch123> he used some weird nicks the previous days, but the main nick has still the same colour as always
15:44:26  <frosch123> though i never figured out what makes nicknames coloured
15:45:01  <frosch123> whether it's a pure client thing on the viewer's site, or whether the server has influence
15:45:33  <SpComb> /nick SpComb
15:45:58  * peter1138 nicks SpComb
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15:49:19  <frosch123> "You've given me 5 invalid commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 10 minutes." <- dorpsgek can be so cruel :(
16:00:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25943 trunk/src/newgrf_debug_gui.cpp (2013-11-06 15:10:17 UTC)
16:00:24  <DorpsGek> -Fix: NewGRF inspect window in RTL mode.
16:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: konversation assigns the colour to the first nick that is writing something, nickchanges afterwards keep that colour. upon (daily) reconnect, that "memory" of the colour is reset
16:04:42  <frosch123> i am using konversation as well, but that behaviour does not apply to my client
16:04:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it might be a setting
16:07:49  <frosch123> internet says conversation computed the colour from the nickname via some hash formula
16:08:18  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a reasonable assumption
16:08:30  <frosch123> hmm, maybe i misunderstood you
16:08:48  <frosch123> maybe you reconnected when pm was using a different nickname
16:09:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the first thing pm said today was with the nick "pm"
16:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause> then he renamed to "planetmaker", but kept the "pm" colour
16:09:41  <frosch123> yeah, then i misunderstood you
16:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> when i reconnect tomorrow, then it'll reset to the "planetmaker" colour, unless he changes nicks again
16:11:11  <Eddi|zuHause> (that also works if he reconnects)
16:12:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't find a setting for "remember nick colour after renaming"
16:12:57  <frosch123> i doubt there i
16:13:00  <frosch123> s
16:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it was not ported from kde3 to kde4 or something
16:13:25  <Eddi|zuHause> or i remember another client
16:13:53  <frosch123> konversation looked to me like the only program that did not completely change from 3 to 4 :p
16:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> there were a few changes
16:34:57  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't really remember anymore
16:35:17  <Eddi|zuHause> there was something about tooltips not being carried over
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18:32:44  <NGC3982> Poop.
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19:35:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25944 /trunk/src/lang (latvian.txt swedish.txt) (2013-11-06 18:45:14 UTC)
19:35:23  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:35:24  <DorpsGek> latvian - 5 changes by Parastais
19:35:25  <DorpsGek> swedish - 2 changes by Joel_A
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19:40:48  <andythenorth> O/
19:41:14  <andythenorth> Meh, my SSD died
19:41:18  <andythenorth> Or my mac
19:41:24  <andythenorth> Dunno which yet
19:42:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i had an USB stick die on me
19:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> as in can't write to it anymore, only read
19:42:55  <frosch123> i had an usb stick with broken connector, when i held it and pressured it in a certain direction,l it still worked
19:43:52  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: maybe your writing license expired
19:44:09  <LordAro> i have a usb stick which refuses to be recognised, despite being apparently perfectly fine physically
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20:16:45  <Wolf01> hello o/
20:16:55  <peter1138> is it me you're looking for
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20:33:33  <apiecux> hello
20:33:43  <apiecux> during game, is it possible to change sea level?
20:34:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no
20:35:54  <apiecux> and map size?
20:37:09  <Eddi|zuHause> no
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21:42:12  <nickshanks> it's been a while since i played. how do i buy a bus/train again? :)
21:42:29  <Taede> do you have a depot?
21:42:32  <nickshanks> yes
21:42:50  <Taede> click the depot, then the button new vehicles
21:43:03  <Taede> select from the list, click the buy button
21:43:45  <nickshanks> don't see any buy button
21:43:55  <nickshanks> "buy new vehicles" i mean
21:44:31  <Taede> bottom left of the depot-window?
21:44:37  <Taede> new vehicles
21:45:13  <Taede> that opens a new window with vehicles which you can buy in that depot
21:47:23  <nickshanks>
21:47:42  <nickshanks> that's what i see. has it changed since about a year ago?
21:47:49  <Taede> ah, that is a station
21:47:52  <planetmaker> nickshanks, that's a station window
21:47:58  <planetmaker> and you should update your base set :-)
21:48:06  <nickshanks> that's zBase
21:48:27  <Taede> in the construction toolbar, the button to the right of the dynamite will build a depot
21:48:31  <Taede> where you can build vehicles
21:48:34  <planetmaker> I see, yes. then don't update yet :-)
21:49:03  <nickshanks> i get that window when i click on a bus depot
21:49:16  <glx> it's a bus station
21:49:18  <nickshanks> oh, crap
21:49:31  <nickshanks> i am building the terminus stations thinking they are depos
21:49:41  <glx> depots don't have names above them ;)
21:49:53  <nickshanks> yeah, geez, i am a dufus
21:50:03  <nickshanks> now i remember :D
21:50:56  <nickshanks> 26 October 2012 is the most recent saved game on my old computer
21:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause> mine is 6. Apr 2012
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22:05:44  <Wolf01> I started my last game on 2010, still playing
22:09:00  <__ln__> in-game year 2010?
22:09:23  <Wolf01> in R-word year :P
22:10:50  <Wolf01> I play 1-2 hours every now and then, I think I'm on game-year 21xx
22:11:09  <Kjetil> When I was young the game ended in 2070
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22:14:06  <planetmaker> likely another game
22:15:05  <planetmaker> This game allows endless play for at least 7 or 8 years
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22:21:44  <Kjetil> well.. the years stopped progressing in 2070 :P
22:22:30  <__ln__> that's right
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22:41:06  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:08:23  <peter1138> Hmm... openswan...
23:11:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Kjetil: no, it was 2090
23:11:23  <__ln__> objection
23:11:45  <Eddi|zuHause> 1920+170
23:12:23  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 170*365.25
23:12:23  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 62092.5
23:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause> just short of 64k days
23:17:17  <__ln__> @calc 150*365.25
23:17:17  <DorpsGek> __ln__: 54787.5
23:18:25  <__ln__>
23:20:50  <peter1138> Recommended packages: linux-headers-686-pae linux-headers-amd64
23:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause> that is not OpenTTD
23:20:52  <peter1138> lol
23:21:00  <peter1138> That'll do good on a Pi...
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23:21:25  <__ln__> obviously OpenTTD did not exist when people were young
23:21:47  <Eddi|zuHause> but then it's not "the game" either :)
23:22:06  <Eddi|zuHause> so it was "another game" like peter1138 said
23:22:11  <__ln__> but it is "the game", openttd is only "a clone"
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23:24:21  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, I what?
23:24:40  <Eddi|zuHause> wrong p :p
23:25:01  <Eddi|zuHause> it's the colours! i told you people! ::p
23:25:15  <peter1138> You're all grey to me. I can read ;p
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23:51:26  <NGC3982> Evening. :)

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