Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:05:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D11B.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:10:18 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:10:37 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 00:14:34 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 00:15:37 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:20:25 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:22:35 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:30:55 <Wolf01> 'night 00:30:59 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: i rather doubt that is my area of expertise 00:39:44 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, i'm not a dev 00:47:03 *** treaki__ [00fcc81586@p4FF4B15B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:48:55 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:18 *** treaki_ [059fbc4377@p4FDF751E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:55:11 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: pssh 00:55:16 <Sacro> you've been here longer than me 00:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. but i don't actually do anything 00:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played the game in two years now 00:56:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "german federal patent court invalidates microsoft-fat-patent" 00:57:30 <FLHerne> Yay 00:57:43 <Eddi|zuHause> "ruling is not final and may be appealed" 00:57:52 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!] 00:58:01 <Hazzard> I never understand anything people here say 00:58:24 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should learn the language people speak :p 00:59:47 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:59:54 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently microsoft holds a fat-with-long-filenames patent, and google challenged it, presenting, amongst others, a post by linus torvalds as "prior art" 01:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause> as a side note: nowadays, patents are not "protecting the small inventors" anymore, but big corporations send a team of lawyers, then they hold a stack of patents against each others, and whoever has the smaller stack has to pay royalty fees 01:06:06 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.186] has joined #openttd 01:28:17 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-167-112-58.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:44:56 <Supercheese> Forums in backup mode again 01:48:22 <LordAro> Supercheese: they're backing up, like they do every night at about this time 01:48:40 <Supercheese> It's been that way for at least 15 minutes 01:49:00 <Supercheese> I suppose it may just be taking longer than usual 02:00:09 <Supercheese> still doin' it 02:02:10 <LordAro> orudge: & 02:02:13 <LordAro> ^ 02:02:15 <LordAro> even 02:16:03 <Hazzard> still going 02:19:01 <LordAro> meh, there's nothing interesting on the forums anyway :p 02:34:58 *** LuHa [~LuHa@175.203.104.96] has joined #openttd 03:03:38 *** abchirk_ [~abchirk@f052230072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:09:02 <Supercheese> :O 03:09:20 <Supercheese> same problem as before, it seems 03:10:44 <Supercheese> Brrr, very cold here 03:10:47 <Supercheese> @convert 4 F to C 03:10:47 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: -15.5555555556 03:10:56 <Supercheese> ^ °C 03:15:54 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 03:16:54 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 03:36:30 *** DanMacK [~453f3a69@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 03:36:35 <DanMacK> \Hey all 03:37:12 <DanMacK> Have the backups for the forums been extremely long lately or is it just me? 03:37:28 <Supercheese> Not just you 03:37:34 <DanMacK> ok 03:37:41 <DanMacK> it's been backing up for hours 03:37:48 <Supercheese> yeah 03:38:21 <DanMacK> was like that yesterday too 03:41:51 <Supercheese> not sure what's happening, but something's gone wrong 03:53:49 <Hazzard> yea 04:11:54 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:15:25 *** LuHa [~LuHa@175.203.104.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:22:15 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has joined #openttd 04:27:28 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:31:13 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 04:37:48 *** Superuser [~superuser@cpc11-lewi15-2-0-cust98.2-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 04:40:36 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 05:01:17 *** DanMacK [~453f3a69@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:02:26 *** Hazzard is now known as Guest8485 05:02:26 *** hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:02:43 *** hazzard is now known as Hazzard 05:02:59 *** Guest8485 [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:18 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:48:55 *** Super_Random [~kvirc@75-102-176-79.d2.itctel.com] has joined #openttd 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66D12.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD434E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:03:52 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:36:41 *** Super_Random [~kvirc@75-102-176-79.d2.itctel.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:37:22 *** Pereba [~UserNick@186.212.238.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:45:44 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@78.97.205.68] has joined #openttd 06:50:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:57:43 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-167-112-58.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:16:04 <Eddi|zuHause> orudge: still in backup mode 07:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it's the winter theme's fault :p 07:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause> (correlation vs. causality :p) 07:20:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 07:29:14 *** Tom_Soft2 [~id@37.140.121.231] has joined #openttd 07:33:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:24:28 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.214.57.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:28 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:55:33 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:34:33 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-125-34-172.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #openttd 09:42:24 <planetmaker> moin 09:44:12 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host58-55-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:44:47 <Wolf01> hello :D 09:45:56 <planetmaker> moin wolf 09:49:10 <LordAro> moin 09:51:26 <Taede> moin 09:56:00 <V453000> hy 09:57:50 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:57:53 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:58:25 <Alberth> moin 09:59:10 <planetmaker> ui, all wake up. moin moin all along :D 10:04:12 <LordAro> :D 10:06:12 <V453000> NO 10:06:16 <V453000> (: 10:07:15 <Xaroth|Work> mornin 10:10:14 * Alberth makes breakfast for all 10:10:50 * Taede makes tea and coffee 10:10:58 * V453000 grabs beer 10:12:35 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has joined #openttd 10:14:02 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 10:16:55 * LordAro is not surprised by V453000's breakfast choices 10:16:59 <fonsinchen> V453000: ever tried beer-flavoured coffee? 10:17:46 <V453000> I dont really drink coffee much 10:18:00 <V453000> waste of time as you could be drinking beer in the meantime 10:21:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ABB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:21:30 <Taede> could make it an irish coffee 10:24:50 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:25:58 <V453000> yeah and if you put away the coffee, its perfect :P 10:28:39 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 10:30:44 <SpComb> tea *and* coffee? 10:31:35 <Xaroth|Work> hmmm.. tea 10:32:29 <SpComb> mm, coffee 10:32:42 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-167-112-58.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:40:30 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-177-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:43:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6AD8D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:46:36 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:57:16 *** Gethiox3 [~gethiox@acth78.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 10:58:23 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:00:29 *** Jomann [~abchirk@f052230072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 11:01:09 *** Gethiox2 [~gethiox@actf6.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:06:04 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:08:45 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f743e36.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:30:33 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:44:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:46:27 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3B6A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:47:09 <NGC3982> If i have two adjacent industries that both accept Engineering Supplies 11:47:52 <NGC3982> And deliver Eng. Supplies to a station that is connected to both of them. Does the industry with >0% transported goods be the one that uses it? 11:48:59 <andythenorth> maybe 11:49:01 <andythenorth> maybe not 11:49:34 <NGC3982> It is not certain? 11:49:38 <andythenorth> AIUI, the industry with it's north tile closest to station sign gets it 11:49:45 <andythenorth> might be wrong though, stations are weird 11:50:25 <NGC3982> I see. 11:51:53 * andythenorth looks for road docs 11:52:41 <andythenorth> so do roads have a specific bit for catenary? 11:52:51 <andythenorth> or is it just automatically drawn for trams 11:52:54 <andythenorth> ? 11:53:19 <andythenorth> looks like there's a bit free anyway 11:53:42 <V453000> ASPHALT_RAIL and ASPHALT_ELRL? :P 11:54:21 <andythenorth> ha ha ha :) 11:58:28 * andythenorth proposes roads-with-and-without-catenary and trams-with-and-without-catenary 11:59:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth, there's two road types, road and tram tracks. Tram tracks have catenary 11:59:46 * MNIM proposes to actually implement roadtypes some time. 12:00:18 <andythenorth> you and a lot of other people have proposed that ;) 12:00:48 <andythenorth> I am -1 to roadtypes these days 12:00:53 <planetmaker> why? 12:01:05 <andythenorth> a *lot* of work for minimal gameplay benefit 12:01:05 <V453000> railtypes solve everything XD 12:01:12 <MNIM> andythenorth: for years. 12:01:19 <andythenorth> and loads more fiddly compatibility crap to deal with 12:01:28 <andythenorth> roadtypes have some thorny problems 12:01:31 <planetmaker> it would follow the existing concept 12:01:32 <MNIM> ah yes, 'compatibility' 12:01:50 <planetmaker> the only really thorny problem is town growth wrt road types :) 12:01:52 <andythenorth> there aren't enough bits to write a spec for roadtypes that will get accepted 12:02:02 <planetmaker> thorny problem in design that is :) 12:02:09 <andythenorth> there are problems with MP and ownership 12:02:13 <planetmaker> yeah, space there is an issue 12:02:26 <andythenorth> there is some boring work to handle rail crossings 12:03:04 <planetmaker> not really 12:03:14 <planetmaker> they are handled by railtypes 12:03:33 <planetmaker> with railtypes present it currently works like 12:03:37 <planetmaker> *draw normal road 12:03:44 <planetmaker> *draw rail crossing sprite 12:03:56 <planetmaker> *draw possibly rail crossing lights 12:05:02 <planetmaker> I don't see a need to change that for other road types 12:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> the only really thorny problem is town growth wrt road types :) <-- why? a simple "towns may grow along this type" property should suffice 12:05:32 <planetmaker> it would, Eddi|zuHause, yes 12:05:39 <andythenorth> didn't we discover that only two road types can be present on a tile? 12:05:52 <andythenorth> and that there would be lots of fiddly messaging to player about what can be built or not 12:05:54 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes. but so? 12:06:15 <planetmaker> ah, you mean which two. yeah. that's the... big problem I guess. you're right 12:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc's map stuff may allow an arbitrary number of roadtypes 12:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i do certainly see situation where i'd need 3 12:07:34 <planetmaker> we don't need the jack-of-all-trades roadtype combinatoric solution 12:08:45 <planetmaker> where would you need three, Eddi|zuHause ? 12:08:45 <MNIM> Why would we not need them? 12:09:30 <planetmaker> MNIM, jack-of-all-trades is the enemy of a viable and possible solution 12:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: imagine a route that has both trolley bus and tram lines. then the tram line goes straight on, the trolley bus turns to the left, and a normal road to the right 12:10:02 <Eddi|zuHause> how to make it so there isn't a catenary stump to the right? 12:10:03 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, two are sufficient, if trolley is compatible to tram 12:10:12 <MNIM> oh yeah? 12:10:15 <MNIM> I count three. 12:10:51 <MNIM> Actually, more. 12:11:05 <MNIM> road+rail+cat. - road+rail. - road+cat. - road. - rail+cat. rail. 12:11:10 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:11:31 <MNIM> (assuming some trams run without catenary, as steam trams are prone to do) 12:12:07 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: that's 4 roadtypes and combinations 12:12:11 <MNIM> and that's before even considering different roadtypes like dirt road, city road, normal road and highway. 12:12:12 <planetmaker> MNIM, don't confuse 'all road types thinkable' with 'needed on one tile' 12:12:34 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause last time I saw this discussion you proved we don't have enough bits 12:12:43 <MNIM> Oh, wait, you mean properties, not types. 12:12:43 <andythenorth> there are also the problems like dirt road crossing tram 12:12:55 <andythenorth> i.e. the requirement to define some types as incompatible 12:13:02 <andythenorth> it also makes for trivial griefing 12:13:09 <andythenorth> although the answer to that is well known 12:13:22 <Eddi|zuHause> ignore griefing 12:13:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a problem that is never solved by technical means 12:14:23 <Alberth> don't make things incompatible would be saner, imho 12:14:36 <MNIM> ^ +1 12:15:07 <planetmaker> so roads need an underlay, and an overlay 12:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but a "Stadtbahn" tram type that cannot be placed on road but has increased speed limit may provide additional gameplay value 12:15:18 <planetmaker> only one underlay is drawn, then two overlays 12:15:32 <planetmaker> but we need a way to define upper and lower roadtype 12:15:50 <planetmaker> or a sort-of priority 12:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "placed on" means "occupy the same road bit", there would still be crossings allowed 12:17:06 <MNIM> so then you would need to make sure it can recognize the difference between crossing and running along. 12:17:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's a difficult problem 12:17:47 <fonsinchen> frosch123: https://github.com/ulfhermann/openttd/commit/d9827049bc090e8a4ac8990819d226dddbb1a4e0 will show exact numbers for acceptance when building stations 12:18:23 <fonsinchen> The question is how to rephrase that "Accepts:" string to tell people what that actually means... 12:18:47 <MNIM> you're the coder, but either way I think the compatibility part of it can be delayed until the basic roadtypes feature is actually implemented (and proven) 12:19:29 <MNIM> It is, at the very least something that cannot be made without doing the basic feature first, anyway. 12:19:45 <MNIM> +/- , 12:19:48 <planetmaker> MNIM there first should be a sensible design which allows extension 12:20:26 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: since we're in the design phase and not the implementation phase, that's no good argument at all 12:20:51 <MNIM> unless said sensible design is really convoluted in the first place, that property should remain true regardless 12:21:01 <frosch123> fonsinchen: i thought about using "coal (low), steel (medium), wood (high)" 12:21:35 <fonsinchen> Well, try the patch and see what strange numbers the default industries produce already 12:21:49 <frosch123> ok :p 12:21:55 <fonsinchen> That high/medium/low threshold would have to be defined per cargo 12:22:11 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:22:17 <frosch123> how do i get a proper raw diff from github? 12:22:17 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 12:23:32 <fonsinchen> It used to be easy - you just had to add "raw" somewhere in the URL ... seems they've removed it 12:23:40 <LordAro> frosch123: add ".diff" to the url 12:23:47 <LordAro> google always knows ;) 12:23:50 <frosch123> excellent interface :) 12:24:04 <LordAro> well, stackoverflow knows often too :p 12:24:06 <LordAro> :p 12:24:54 <fonsinchen> in fact 12:24:57 <LordAro> frosch123: afaik, it's because you're supposed to use pull requests, not raw diffs 12:25:23 <planetmaker> LordAro, but you want to know what to pull :) 12:25:47 <LordAro> ah, but git[hub] handles that for you 12:25:48 <frosch123> LordAro: fine for them, i just file it under crap 12:26:23 <LordAro> funnily enough, github is focused on git -> git actions, not git -> svn 12:26:53 <LordAro> a bit of an odd style choice i grant you, but at least they made it "easy" to get anyway 12:27:01 <LordAro> even if there isn't a nice button to press 12:27:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that is such a stupidity, that i can't even find a good analogy how stupid it is 12:27:52 <planetmaker> LordAro, raw diffs are not exactly odd for *any* vcs' review process 12:28:31 <LordAro> ah yes, but you've got the diff in front of you, in a funny format, if you just pull this changeset, why would you need the raw diff? 12:29:44 <fonsinchen> Let's not get into the vcs flamewar, please. 12:29:47 <frosch123> so, some industries only accept with one tile 12:30:00 <fonsinchen> most, actually 12:30:05 <LordAro> fonsinchen: spoil sport :p 12:30:07 <frosch123> while the factory does with 12 12:30:24 <frosch123> (which is all) 12:30:24 * andythenorth found an old roadtypes spec 12:30:31 <fonsinchen> steel works can have ridiculous numbers, too 12:31:10 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:24 <frosch123> let's check toyland 12:31:29 <frosch123> usually it is more well designed 12:31:42 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.186] has joined #openttd 12:32:31 <frosch123> in toyland the processing industries seem to consistently accept with all tiles 12:32:41 <frosch123> no fancy "only one tile accepts" stuff 12:33:51 <fonsinchen> There still are industries with 4 tiles and others with 12, though 12:34:12 <frosch123> yeah, that's the argument we had about firs yesterday 12:34:34 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host86-167-112-58.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 12:34:49 <fonsinchen> In principle that's no problem for cargodist, nor is it a problem for grf authors if they can demands > 8 per tile 12:34:58 <fonsinchen> However, it's a UI problem. 12:35:23 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:35:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 12:35:28 <fonsinchen> ^... specify demands ... 12:35:30 <frosch123> it is a problem if you mix stuff, it is also a problem for ais 12:35:40 <andythenorth> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xk6AsVzX 12:35:45 <andythenorth> roadtypes stuff ^ 12:36:03 <andythenorth> that's from April 2012 12:36:13 <andythenorth> best we could get at the time 12:36:24 <frosch123> so, i would claim that all tiles accepting 8/8 is the normal case 12:36:33 <andythenorth> I might be wrong, but pikka I think had a simpler alternative solution, which was rejected 12:36:35 <fonsinchen> What problem would AIs have with that? 12:36:37 <frosch123> it is also the easier case for gameplay 12:36:45 <fonsinchen> Towns accept less than 8/8 12:36:53 <andythenorth> all tiles accepting 8/8 is the only sane solution for industries :P 12:37:00 <fonsinchen> Why? 12:37:02 <frosch123> fonsinchen: for ais it's the same as the gui 12:37:16 <fonsinchen> can't you accept 15/8 to increase demand? 12:37:22 <andythenorth> dicking around with station locations to add up tile acceptance is really boring gameplay 12:37:30 <andythenorth> so less than 8/8 is just doing it wrong 12:37:40 <andythenorth> (for industry) 12:37:40 <fonsinchen> What about more than 8/8? 12:37:47 <andythenorth> apologies :) 12:37:56 <andythenorth> more than 8/8 never made sense - until now 12:38:05 <frosch123> well, i think the only solution is to make it depend on the industry size or so 12:38:23 <frosch123> or rather, first the gameplay question: 12:38:25 <planetmaker> I read specs to be valid 0-8 only so far :) 12:38:32 <frosch123> shall demand depend on the amount of tiles you cover? 12:38:41 <fonsinchen> Well it can be easily extended to 0-15 12:38:46 <fonsinchen> we already have the bits 12:38:58 <frosch123> i think we should ignore the specs details, until we know what the gameplay shall be like 12:39:06 <andythenorth> no, demand should depend on coverage of any tile of industry 12:39:15 <andythenorth> industry demand is specific to industry as a whole, not it's tiles 12:39:19 <andythenorth> (is my proposal) :) 12:39:27 <andythenorth> its * 12:39:28 <frosch123> yeah, i would also think so :p 12:39:59 <andythenorth> industry has its own internal transport :P You don't need to provide that :P 12:41:08 <fonsinchen> I'm just saying that with very moderate changes we could make the demands accessible to GRFs 12:41:19 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-177-115.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:41:36 <fonsinchen> There's almost no work involved and it looks ok to me as everything else in that area works based on tiles. 12:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> I might be wrong, but pikka I think had a simpler alternative solution, which was rejected <-- pikka's "one roadtype per tile" solution suffers from combinatoric explosion when you want to provide anything more than trivial choices 12:42:15 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: I am +1 to this idea, if I've understood correctly 12:42:20 <andythenorth> at least we can test it :) 12:42:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so only provide trivial choices...? 12:42:58 <andythenorth> how interesting are roadtypes anyway? 12:43:27 <peter1138> Not enough for me to do it yet. 12:43:35 <frosch123> the question to make demeand accessible to newgrf is independent 12:43:55 <frosch123> i still want to stress the gameplay: shall demand depend on the number of tiles a station convers? 12:44:24 <frosch123> it makes sense for houses, but feels wrong for industries 12:44:26 <andythenorth> yes 12:44:31 <planetmaker> yes, frosch123 12:44:45 <andythenorth> yes is ambiguous answer, sorry :P 12:44:51 <andythenorth> I agree that it's wrong for industries 12:44:57 <planetmaker> though actually for houses, they could be considered monolithic, too 12:45:06 <frosch123> what? 12:45:08 <planetmaker> then it would be the same everywhere: cover one tile, get it all 12:45:09 <frosch123> you both make no sense 12:45:15 <andythenorth> even if that makes the implementation easy, doing it on tiles covered is not optimal 12:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> each house is a "monolith" 12:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> if you cover a 2x2 house on one tile, you cover the demand of the entire house 12:46:03 <andythenorth> ok so covering a tile covers it's parent object? 12:46:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: planetmaker: just to make it clear. if you have two factories with a station each. one station covers 12 tiles of the industry, the other station 6 tiles of the other industry. should the 12 tile station get twice the cargo routed than the 6 tile one? 12:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: no 12:47:13 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:26 <planetmaker> hu? no. Station size and covered size of any item should not matter. Cover one tile, get all output 12:47:40 <frosch123> input, not output 12:48:17 * Alberth imagines the fights for the optimal delivery spot in competition play :p 12:48:27 <fonsinchen> actually houses are not monolithic, nor atomic in that sense 12:48:30 <frosch123> there is no competition 12:48:37 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:48:42 <frosch123> you only control the weights in your own network 12:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: but they should be :) 12:49:06 <frosch123> there is nothing unfair about it, it's just an insanely complex game mechanic 12:49:15 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that concept feels totally wrong 12:49:25 <planetmaker> Also for input. Or using station-walk is required by gameplay 12:50:04 <fonsinchen> The whole thing only comes into play if you want to influence the distribution algorithm on a fine grained level 12:50:14 <frosch123> planetmaker: it does not affect the total amount in the network, only the distribution within your network 12:50:18 <fonsinchen> It's not really an everyday problem. 12:50:40 <frosch123> fonsinchen: the problem is that most people do not want to influence the distribution algorithm 12:50:55 <frosch123> but will rather be completely confused why some industries get no cargo 12:50:58 <frosch123> while others are flooded 12:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: but people not aware of the mechanic will wonder why one industry gets 90% of the cargo and the trains to the other industry are empty, clogging up the pickup station 12:52:23 <andythenorth> that happens currently with cdist anyway 12:52:27 <andythenorth> my game has that 12:52:47 <andythenorth> so I'd suggest it's a non-issue ;) 12:52:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's mostly the distance 12:52:55 <andythenorth> I've turned distance off some years ago 12:54:05 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123, fonsinchen: if you really want to allow the player to fine tune it, let them assign a weight to the station manually 12:54:16 <andythenorth> I do wonder if manual is easiest solution 12:54:41 <fonsinchen> Maybe I should just ignore the numbers and only check for >0 in the demands calculation after all. 12:54:52 <andythenorth> I was yesterday trying to work out how a newgrf industry would increase or decrease demand 12:54:58 <fonsinchen> andythenorth: can I see one of your games? 12:55:00 <frosch123> fonsinchen: you mean ">= 8" ? 12:55:12 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: yes - later :) Got to go do chores 12:55:18 <fonsinchen> frosch123: depends on what number you get as input 12:55:22 <andythenorth> I'll have to give you some newgrfs as well 12:55:31 <fonsinchen> OK 12:56:11 <planetmaker> fonsinchen, I don't find the numbers I get with your patch with default industries that bad 12:56:33 <planetmaker> especially for towns the display of actual numbers is nice to see best place to put a station 12:57:01 <fonsinchen> Imagine someone covering one tile of a steel works with a station and all 12 tiles with another station 12:57:09 <fonsinchen> The second station will get 12 times as much cargo. 12:57:22 <fonsinchen> And the player won't understand that. 12:57:35 <planetmaker> they won't without any indicator 12:57:46 <planetmaker> they will, if station acceptance quantity is shown 12:58:27 <fonsinchen> True, that's why I wrote that patch. However, how do you translate those numbers for people who have no idea what we're talking about here? 12:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause> they won't if they load an older savegame and their network breaks down for no reason 12:59:01 <fonsinchen> If they load an older savegame cargodist is off. Problem solved. 12:59:06 <MNIM> 'compatibility' 12:59:12 <Alberth> fonsinchen: as percentage of total acceptance for all tiles? 12:59:27 <fonsinchen> what is "all tiles"? 13:00:39 <Alberth> all tiles belonging to an entity which you have covered by at least one tile 13:00:48 <Alberth> but I am not sure it's a good measure 13:01:17 <Alberth> otoh, I don't know a better one currently 13:01:47 <fonsinchen> The whole point of it is that newGRF authors could dynamically change acceptance levels. Then the percentage doesn't help 13:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: if you want newgrf authors to take influence, you should provide a new property/callback, and not hack it into some unrelated/unprepared old property 13:03:07 <Alberth> percentage of theoretical max accepted cargo for all tiles with non-zero acceptance? 13:04:02 *** LordAro [~LordAro@sns61-83.york.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:15 *** LordAro [~LordAro@sns61-83.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 13:04:15 <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: "acceptance" and "demand" are basically the same thing, aren't they? 13:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: no 13:05:26 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: a small medieval smith may accept metal and produce tools, the "acceptance" would be the same as a modern factory, but the "demand" would be much lower 13:06:13 <fonsinchen> Acceptance is thus defined as (demand > 0) ? true : false 13:06:27 <fonsinchen> This is what I mean as basically the same. 13:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: which brings us back to the original problem: "acceptance" is currenty a property if industrytiles, while "demand" should be a property of industry (as a whole) 13:07:21 <Eddi|zuHause> *of 13:08:11 <fonsinchen> I think we're stuck here. I will think about it some more. 13:09:57 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:30 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:44 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:15:21 *** Phreeze [~oftc-webi@vodsl-10370.vo.lu] has joined #openttd 13:20:09 <Phreeze> hiho, is there an expert in NML ? getting a NewGRF error when clicking on the refit button of my train (but only once, the very first time trying to refit from 3 to 4 cars) 13:21:29 <planetmaker> that's rather unspecific, Phreeze 13:21:47 <Phreeze> it's an error about cargo_subtype 0x19 13:21:48 <Eddi|zuHause> might be better suited for the forum, where you can give a more elaborate explanation/example 13:21:54 <planetmaker> also mind, that a refit cannot change the number of vehicles in a consist 13:22:04 <planetmaker> it can only change the looks of them 13:22:14 <Phreeze> yeah, it's a pseudo refit ;) from the tutorial 13:22:32 <Phreeze> shortens 1 waggon to 7/8 + 1/8 invis 13:23:01 <Phreeze> is it normal that i only get the error once ? if i sell the train and rebuild it, i dont get the same error again 13:23:28 <planetmaker> you can only do this refit in a depot, mind that 13:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it uses cached results after that 13:24:03 <Phreeze> yep i know 13:24:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but really, without any details nobody can tell what your problem is 13:24:14 <Alberth> or it suppresses more reports 13:25:17 *** Superuser [~superuser@cpc11-lewi15-2-0-cust98.2-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:25:38 <frosch123> Phreeze: you say you get an error 13:25:40 <frosch123> what error? 13:26:26 <Phreeze> Newgrf (myset) has errors: 13:26:41 <Phreeze> Callback 0x19 returned unknown/invalid result 0x7fff 13:26:53 <Phreeze> 7fff in decimal is about 32757 or so 13:27:10 <Eddi|zuHause> 7fff is the maximum that can be returned 13:27:12 <frosch123> these newgrf errors are only reported once 13:27:17 <Phreeze> got this in a red error box after clicking on the refit button on my newly build train 13:27:25 <frosch123> then ottd suppresses them to not annoy the player about broken grf 13:27:42 <frosch123> and yes, 7ffff is an invalid result 13:27:46 <Eddi|zuHause> often meaning "invalid" 13:27:52 <Phreeze> k...i doublechecked my switches that have the cargo_subtype in them 13:28:11 <frosch123> you shoudl returns 0x400 or a string 13:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> can you paste the code? 13:28:31 <Phreeze> i paste the code on pastebin or so, wait a sec 13:29:05 <frosch123> paste.openttdcoop.org is faster most of the times 13:29:24 <Phreeze> http://pastebin.com/Mn2yW70b 13:29:40 <Phreeze> oh i didn't know that paste-link 13:30:16 <frosch123> return CB_RESULT_NO_MORE_ARTICULATED_PARTS; <- that's wrong 13:31:15 <frosch123> it should be CB_RESULT_NO_TEXT 13:31:16 <Phreeze> should i just leave that line away ? 13:31:22 <Phreeze> k 13:31:57 <frosch123> the callback is about subtypes, not articulated parts :) 13:32:01 <Phreeze> i just analysed the "whole code" from the tutorial 13:32:18 <Phreeze> on the last page of the train tutorial, and it shows other parts than before 13:32:27 <Phreeze> in the complete code it says return 0xFF 13:32:42 <Phreeze> in the tutorial pages back, it said the NO_MORE_ART.... 13:32:51 <frosch123> 0xFF may have worked in nml 0.2, but is wrong now 13:33:04 <frosch123> can you give a link to those pages? 13:33:15 <Phreeze> http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Train_recolour 13:33:25 <Phreeze> under "TOTAL CODE" 13:33:50 <Phreeze> this part has an 0xFF too: /* --- Articulated part callback --- */ switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, sw_icm_articulated_part, extra_callback_info1) { /* Add three articulated parts, for a total of four */ 1 .. 3: return item_icm; return 0xFF; 13:34:02 <Phreeze> and the start stop callback too 13:34:15 <Phreeze> these 3 are the only ones 13:36:03 <Phreeze> Error is gone, many thx for the help :) 13:36:25 <Phreeze> getting to understand the mechanics more and more 13:40:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:41:19 <frosch123> fixed those two pages, at least i hope so :) 13:42:17 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-125-34-172.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:43:52 <planetmaker> ty ^ 13:45:37 <Phreeze> good job ;) 13:46:28 <planetmaker> tutorials get old :S 13:55:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:56:31 <Phreeze> but help a lot 13:56:55 <planetmaker> it was no argument of mine against tutorials :) 14:04:03 *** onezero [~user@0001c18e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:07:57 <andythenorth> so I had to drive for a couple of hours yesterday, and spent some time thinking about how industries would want to adjust demand 14:08:12 <andythenorth> and I couldn't find a good answer without specifying actual quantities 14:08:23 <andythenorth> it looks nice and neat to use scale-free (relative) demands 14:08:32 <andythenorth> but thats not how something like FIRS works :( 14:08:47 <andythenorth> for which I would apologise, except it's the result of endless discussion and *lots* of testing :) 14:14:09 *** adf89 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 14:16:32 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:38 *** Virtual- [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has joined #openttd 14:29:58 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:47:09 *** Phreeze [~oftc-webi@vodsl-10370.vo.lu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:02 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:49:53 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26147 /trunk/bin/baseset (6 files) (2013-12-08 14:49:47 UTC) 14:49:54 <DorpsGek> -Update: Baseset translations 14:59:02 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-89-176-82-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:05:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:13:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26148 trunk/src/script/api/script_order.cpp (2013-12-08 15:13:06 UTC) 15:13:13 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5824] (r25735): Script API failed for vehicles with only implicit orders. 15:16:58 *** montalvo [~montalvo@papc-ma276.st-andrews.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 15:18:08 *** Tom_Soft2 [~id@37.140.121.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:22:56 *** Tom_Soft2 [~id@37.140.121.231] has joined #openttd 15:28:55 *** onezero [~user@0001c18e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:44:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26149 /trunk/src/script/api (6 files) (2013-12-08 15:44:09 UTC) 15:44:16 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5825]: [Script] Various API functions did not check whether ScrtipRoad::SetCurrentRoadType was called appropiately. 15:46:40 *** spectator is now known as jrambo 15:50:18 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 15:51:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:05:31 <andythenorth> hmm 16:06:08 <andythenorth> maybe I can loop over preceeding vehicles until I find one with ID of lead unit 16:06:18 <andythenorth> then I know what position current vehicle is in 16:06:36 <andythenorth> that switch will need generating :P 16:08:54 <planetmaker> position_in_consist and position_in_vehid_chain are not enough? 16:12:14 <frosch123> andy wants position in consist of consecutive articulated vehicles with same front vehicle id, while ignoreing ids of articulated parts, which differ 16:12:19 <frosch123> or something like that :p 16:12:56 <frosch123> we could add a new var, which skipps artic parts 16:13:30 <andythenorth> I need to know position within articulated vehicle 16:13:39 <andythenorth> I don't mind figuring it out compile side 16:14:25 <frosch123> meanwhile, not asking V: is it ok to remove rv from the game? :p 16:14:32 <frosch123> the movement code is too cryptic 16:14:42 <andythenorth> I am -0.3 to that :P 16:15:01 <andythenorth> although some parts of the idea are appealing :) 16:15:52 <planetmaker> roads are just rails without rails :P 16:16:05 <andythenorth> frosch123: can you list any downsides to your plan? o_O 16:16:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: worst part is to acknowledge V 16:16:31 <andythenorth> we could just weigh positives and negatives, whichever wins, wins 16:16:41 <andythenorth> that is a pretty big downside actually 16:16:50 <andythenorth> that's about -255 or so 16:16:56 <planetmaker> :D 16:17:07 <andythenorth> still...the game needs more features 16:17:14 <andythenorth> feature: fewer transport types 16:17:37 <planetmaker> isn't that called 'streamlining'? 16:17:40 <planetmaker> :D 16:18:00 <planetmaker> or profile sharpening 16:18:07 *** montalvo [~montalvo@papc-ma276.st-andrews.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:18:27 <frosch123> or focussing 16:18:48 <andythenorth> pruning dead code? 16:19:04 <andythenorth> also it would have performance benefits 16:19:06 <planetmaker> that has again negative connotation ;) Euphemisms rule 16:19:13 <andythenorth> and we could modernise the newgrf spec 16:20:03 <andythenorth> frosch123: by any chance you're reading the tram code? 16:20:15 <andythenorth> and the stuff that moves it around sharp or not-sharp curves? 16:20:29 <andythenorth> and the stuff iirc that attempts to stop trams getting stuck (that does't work) 16:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> the movement code is too cryptic <-- move it to the new NewGRF-able airport state machine specs :) 16:23:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the way i imagined it could work: the state machine controls the position of the lead vehicle, the vehicle stores the last 8 (-shorter_vehicle) positions, and on movement it pushes the last value into the next following vehicle in the chain 16:23:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. following vehicles will just move along the same path the lead vehicle took 16:24:38 <frosch123> andythenorth: no, rb experimentally removed some code which obviously made no sense 16:24:49 <frosch123> now there is a fs task, and if i readd that code, it works :p 16:25:00 <Eddi|zuHause> then one could start designing (hardcoded) state machines for the road tiles, which include overtaking and balancing two lanes in the same direction 16:25:27 <frosch123> now i removed the code that makes no sense in a different way, and it also seems to work 16:25:31 <frosch123> but it is silly :p 16:27:40 <George> What is the right way to get the year vehicle at position was build? 16:27:40 <George> checking var C4 would be enough? 16:27:40 <George> or it has value 00 for 1920 and does not allow to check years before 1920 and after 2175? 16:28:20 <frosch123> all 80+x only work 1920-2175 16:28:41 <frosch123> but there is 49 16:28:44 <frosch123> var 49 16:29:17 <NGC3982> I'ma build a got damn slave cart for year 1 to 1810. 16:29:47 *** Gethiox3 [~gethiox@acth78.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 16:30:10 <frosch123> NGC3982: what? don't you know what vehicles they had back then? http://www.designbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/steampunk_rocket_car_zvzpe.jpg 16:30:32 <NGC3982> Jesus. 16:30:46 <NGC3982> Although, i would not really want to transport coal with that. 16:31:31 <frosch123> yeah, tenders are a problem with rocket cars 16:32:06 <planetmaker> :) you need to invent push service for those 16:32:08 <NGC3982> Slaves > Rocket cars. 16:33:30 <George> frosch123: thanks 16:33:47 <frosch123> yw 16:34:16 *** ntx [~ntx@a88-115-29-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:34:53 *** treaki_ [7e853d1b59@p4FF4B8F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:35:35 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:41 *** treaki__ [00fcc81586@p4FF4B15B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:56 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:45:13 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:47:40 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:48 *** Tom_Soft2 [~id@37.140.121.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:03:11 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@13-17-191-195.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #openttd 17:12:58 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 17:13:18 *** ntx [~ntx@a88-115-29-236.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 17:14:08 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:20:32 <alluke> is is possible to write a grf that removes maglev bridges from tbrs? 17:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you can only modify that grf directly to not add them 17:27:19 <alluke> damn 17:27:44 <alluke> but there are other grfs that mod others 17:27:51 <alluke> like ecs/firs extensions for trainsets 17:28:43 <V453000> which add things, not remove 17:29:58 <alluke> ugh 17:30:31 <alluke> what about a grf that replaces the maglev bridges with new ones? 17:37:50 <fonsinchen> +1 to removing rv - at the same time allow rails on top of any kind of road. 17:38:19 <fonsinchen> Instantly solves the "I have to bulldoze half the town to place a station" problem 17:38:32 <andythenorth> just remove road 17:39:08 <fonsinchen> Also a fun idea. But implies a new town growth algorithm 17:41:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the RRT way: towns move out of the way when you build rails 17:41:42 <andythenorth> grow along tracks 17:41:44 <andythenorth> and rivers 17:41:45 <andythenorth> hmm 17:41:50 <andythenorth> also rivers suck 17:41:52 <andythenorth> remove those too 17:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> remove the game, start over! 17:42:34 <fonsinchen> What is the last trunk revision you can cleanly rebase YACD onto? 24990? 17:42:54 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there's a patch around for that 17:43:16 <alluke> my problem is that i had to disable transrapid bridges to get nice metro (monorail) bridges https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/sillat.png 17:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: use SMITS instead of these silly "optical illusion" tracks 17:45:03 <alluke> i dont like how they look 17:45:10 <alluke> too clean and bright 17:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the whole game is "clean and bright" 17:46:50 <alluke> yeah 18:04:54 *** Super_Random [~kvirc@75-102-176-79.d2.itctel.com] has joined #openttd 18:05:19 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-150-26-69.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:20:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26150 trunk/src/script/api/script_company.cpp (2013-12-08 18:20:14 UTC) 18:20:21 <DorpsGek> -Revert (r26120): EnforcePrecondition alters the last-error status and is only meant for commands. 18:27:53 *** abchirk_ [~abchirk@g225142159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:35:03 *** Jomann [~abchirk@f052230072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:42:30 *** Pereba [~UserNick@186.212.238.124] has joined #openttd 18:45:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26151 /trunk/src/lang (luxembourgish.txt turkish.txt) (2013-12-08 18:45:14 UTC) 18:45:23 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:24 <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 37 changes by Phreeze 18:45:25 <DorpsGek> turkish - 40 changes by wakeup 18:56:17 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has joined #openttd 19:00:59 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:10 *** Virtual- [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:05:03 *** bdavenport [~davenport@chronos.rpi.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:13:06 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 19:22:44 *** bdavenport [~davenport@chronos.rpi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 19:28:46 *** jjavaholic_ [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 19:31:35 <andythenorth> hmm 19:31:47 <andythenorth> be nice if I could just zip a game + it's newgrf deps :P 19:31:55 <andythenorth> I guess that would have....issues :( 19:32:46 <NGC3982> I really love running. 19:32:59 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:06 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:34:08 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 19:36:59 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 19:38:53 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 19:41:04 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:43:35 *** Gethiox [~gethiox@acth78.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 19:45:25 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 19:54:07 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 19:56:52 *** adf89 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:07:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:07:41 <alluke> is there any tutorial for making ng tracks from bg? 20:07:52 <Alberth> aq 20:08:25 <alluke> ? 20:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> drawing or coding? 20:08:30 <alluke> drawing 20:08:45 <alluke> the I directions are easy to do 20:08:52 <Alberth> alluke: I have that problem with abbreviations like "ng" or "bg" 20:09:06 <alluke> narrow gauge / broad gauge 20:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause> MB had some opinions on how wide the tracks should be 20:09:56 <Alberth> less than a tile would be fine, imho 20:10:00 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 20:10:01 <alluke> i had in mind that i halven the gauge 20:11:52 *** Virtual- [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has joined #openttd 20:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1069524#p1069524 <-- but i didn't quite understood which measure the "5px" refer to 20:15:22 <alluke> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/ng.png ive got only 2 sprites narrow'd so far 21:10:27 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@78.97.205.68] has quit [] 21:20:25 <juzza1> edit this if you want to try finnish stuff https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/frissrails/repository/changes/xcf/tracks.xcf 21:20:38 <juzza1> those graphics are deprecated 21:22:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26152 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2013-12-08 21:22:03 UTC) 21:22:10 <DorpsGek> -Revert/Fix (r26118) [FS#5822]: While the condition is non-sense, the 'true' case is required for articulated parts and the 'false' case is required for savegame compatibility. 21:40:23 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:54:20 <frosch123> night 21:54:24 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f743e36.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:59:54 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:26 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:05:26 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:05:56 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:09:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ABB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:10 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd 22:21:29 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:29:22 *** onezero [~user@0001c18e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:32 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:31:21 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3B6A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 22:37:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6AD8D.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:22 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 22:44:53 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 22:46:24 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 22:52:12 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:52:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:03:54 *** adf89 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 23:04:17 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:39 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:44 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:31 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 23:33:07 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has joined #openttd 23:38:03 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.167] has joined #openttd 23:38:27 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:40:39 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:59:51 *** onezero [~user@0001c18e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd