Log for #openttd on 26th March 2014:
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07:29:52  <__ln___>
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08:59:47  <Endymion_Mallorn> Hi all.  I just downloaded the OpenGFX+ Mars terrain, and the Mars Heightmap, and the Martian Town Names.  Those are based on real-Mars places, are there any based on Barsoom?
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09:11:45  <supermop> cant wait for stations in nml
09:19:43  <planetmaker> hm... nml
09:20:41  <planetmaker> bridges and stations missing. still.
09:22:25  <peter1138> Do it!
09:40:00  <V453000> or else! :D
09:43:05  <supermop> what is everyone working on up on the correct side of the globe?
09:46:06  <planetmaker> shaking marbles ;)
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09:51:42  <krinn> hi again
09:51:46  <V453000> rendering shit and pondering new nuts features :D
09:52:23  <krinn> i have 10 strings in eints that i don't want to be translate (only present in english.txt). Is there a tag, comment... to mark them "don't translate that" ?
10:01:19  <planetmaker> there is no such tag, no
10:01:32  <planetmaker> why don#t you want them translated?
10:02:10  <krinn> to be kept only in english.txt, so other language miss it and display the one from english.txt
10:02:24  <planetmaker> so much was obvious. But why?
10:02:57  <planetmaker> don't tell me you're concerned about file size
10:03:05  <krinn> :) no
10:03:17  <krinn> just to have a common property
10:03:40  <planetmaker> I hear the file size argument often from some NewGRF authors :D
10:03:59  <planetmaker> while a single vehicle sprite is larger :D
10:04:11  <krinn> i never doubt they are insane :)
10:04:23  <supermop> ha
10:05:04  <planetmaker> what do you need a 'common property' for? Which strings exactly do you talk about?
10:05:43  <krinn> i use common property to credit translators, everyone update english.txt part, everyone get the same result. Else they might just add it to their own language, but i want any language to display their names.
10:05:47  <planetmaker> {ORANGE}{STRING} ?
10:06:02  <krinn> for that also yes
10:06:12  <planetmaker> and also credits do need translation
10:06:14  <krinn> but only the credit i care
10:06:35  <krinn> there's no translation to names
10:06:40  <planetmaker> In English I write "krin, planetmaker, and andy". In German I write "krin, planetmaker and andy" (mind the missing ",")
10:06:51  <juzza1> you can remove those unwanted strings from the lang files, then append your common strings from an external file to the english.lng before building
10:07:53  <planetmaker> krinn, really, you should enough faith in your translators to translate correctly
10:08:16  <planetmaker> in case of doubt they are lazy and use "copy string"
10:08:32  <__ln___> krinn: actually you are mistaken, there *are* translations for names
10:08:43  <planetmaker>     (Correct) STR_LGS_AUTHOR : Krinn (english, french) lugo (german) <-- that one definitely needs translation
10:08:53  <planetmaker> and like __ln__ says
10:09:03  <krinn> it's that one yep
10:09:10  <planetmaker> Treebeard is translated rightfully into Baumbart. Or king's landing into Königsmund
10:09:51  <krinn> if anyone do swedish : you end with english.txt remain as is and swedish one with the name added
10:09:56  <__ln___> the author of the Da Vinci Code is known as "Dens Brauns" in latvia, for example.
10:09:57  <krinn> so only swedish users will see it
10:10:14  <planetmaker> krinn, you don't end up that way. english.txt is the one which defines 'correct'
10:10:27  <planetmaker> eints will complain if english.txt is newer for that string
10:10:51  <planetmaker> so *you* change english.txt. Translators handle the rest. And are notified of the changes to English strings
10:11:54  <planetmaker> so yes, translations can lag sometimes. But not translating the credits is worse
10:12:32  <planetmaker> if you're concerned about having it all right: before a release edit each language file and update that particular string
10:12:34  <planetmaker> yourself
10:12:44  <planetmaker> you have the commit rights on everything
10:13:06  <krinn> erf, more work when it was suppose to lower it
10:13:11  <planetmaker> You anyway want to update credits from time to time, checking eints commit logs
10:13:15  <planetmaker> more?
10:13:46  <krinn> i don't have to edit any credits right now, people update them in english.txt and its done
10:14:01  <peter1138> Just add your translators' names to the english version. Then they will just copy that and not have something unique to that language.
10:14:21  <planetmaker> lol. And *who* updates english.txt and whatever.txt manually? Checking strings for correctness, syntactically etc?
10:14:38  <planetmaker> who is troubled with code pages and utf or not utf?
10:14:44  <planetmaker> just like peter said
10:14:44  <peter1138> planetmaker, probably no-one ;)
10:14:48  <planetmaker> yeah :P
10:15:43  <planetmaker> krinn, do you make sure that the plurals and cases for each translation are correct? Correctly defined in the respective language files?
10:16:15  <krinn> hmmm, mmm what ?
10:16:16  <planetmaker> or do you just accept it to break (unknown to you and the translators)?
10:16:49  <krinn> the plural form works, but if you speak about "define plural form", gamescript fail with that
10:17:52  <krinn> so you can do {P "" s} in gr_GB and openttd handle it, but if you add how plural should work in it, openttd reject the file (or i made something wrong, but last time i have just try on a copy of openttd lang file itself)
10:19:48  <peter1138> Bah, wish my ADSL was working :S
10:25:12  <planetmaker> krinn, for example. And eints will simply create the correct headers for you for new translations which people start (when using eints to start it)
10:25:40  <planetmaker> or your battling with the invalid utf chars etc
10:25:46  <planetmaker> that's a thing of the past then
10:26:17  <planetmaker> but if updating english.txt with credits is more work than updating english.txt and all other language files with credits, then I'm out of arguments
10:26:37  <planetmaker> Besides that I usually put translation credits in the readme. Easy that way :)
10:27:15  <krinn> credits are given from the gs main page
10:27:38  <krinn> :) you knows nobody read the readme, that's why it's name "readme"
10:28:10  <Xaroth|Work> people are idiots, it is known.
10:29:06  <krinn> well, i suppose they just prefer click and go then having to read something. And my readme is in english only (i'm not even sure i have one)
10:29:37  <krinn> ok, checked, i have one
10:41:47  <krinn> planetmaker, did you check the reject in english.txt with plural and no in other language trouble ?
10:42:11  <krinn>  s/no/not
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11:20:19  <planetmaker> I didn't check anything. Should I have checked anything, krinn ?
11:22:34  <planetmaker> krinn, I see that many of your strings use a leading space. I believe that's wrong to do
11:22:59  <planetmaker> s/: /:/g on lang/*.txt
11:23:50  <planetmaker> not actually many. But all
11:29:04  <NGC3982> Am i unable to set the order condition: "Stay for hundred days OR wait for full load"?
11:29:35  <NGC3982> Or do i set a 100 day stay, and then a skip to "travel" order when load is full? Should that work? :>
11:31:39  <NGC3982> It did not.
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11:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause>
12:00:00  <__ln___> "You can recover from Microsoft and its suppliers only direct damages up to U.S. .00."
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12:57:59  <andythenorth> V453000: BAD FEATURE: wrong capacities
12:58:30  <V453000> HOW BAD
12:58:41  <V453000> also what do you mean by that
12:58:56  <V453000> cutey 60t capacity per 8/8? :P
12:58:57  <andythenorth> capacities should be 20, 30, 40 units
12:59:05  <andythenorth> and then 50 or 60 for ‘big’ things
12:59:06  <V453000> ish
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12:59:24  <V453000> more than 40 per wagon is retarded for 200kmh train
12:59:25  <andythenorth> my sets have had too many 37t or 9t or whatever
12:59:33  <andythenorth> V453000: depends
12:59:35  <V453000> that isnt an issue in my eyes
12:59:57  <andythenorth> I like, e.g. double deck cars with 60, but slower loading or whatever
13:00:01  <andythenorth> but also
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13:00:07  <andythenorth> loading speeds are a BAD FEATURE
13:00:11  <V453000> slower loading doesnt really hurt much
13:00:22  <V453000> loading speeds are excellent, trains not documenting them properly is bad :)
13:00:27  <andythenorth> also the cargo payment rate adjustment is a BAD FEATURE
13:00:35  <V453000> !!
13:01:31  <andythenorth> also railtype power adjustment is a BAD FEATURE
13:02:04  <V453000> wat that is
13:02:21  <V453000> train gaining moar powah on railtype X?
13:02:23  <V453000> is awesome :D
13:02:48  <andythenorth> and how does user find out about it?
13:02:49  <andythenorth> or AI?
13:03:11  <andythenorth> also pissy vehicle progression ladder is a BAD FEATURE
13:03:12  <V453000> AI can fuck off and user gets taught in the purchase menu
13:03:16  <V453000> :D:D:D
13:03:34  <andythenorth> progression should be BIG STUFF
13:04:15  <andythenorth> for example in Iron Horse, the fast passenger loco does 100mph
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13:04:20  <andythenorth> and the next one does *100mph*
13:04:24  <andythenorth> so it’s much better
13:04:26  <V453000> :D
13:04:35  <andythenorth> but one is *steam* and one is *diesel*
13:04:37  <andythenorth> which is very important
13:04:52  <V453000> does it at least get more power, capacity, anything? :D
13:05:08  <andythenorth> ok, so it is 1750hp vs. 2700hp, and it’s 8/8 instead of 12/8 :P
13:05:13  <andythenorth> but you spoil my trolling :(
13:05:27  <V453000> D::D:D
13:05:30  * andythenorth is just dicking around waiting for lunch
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13:06:38  * V453000 noticed something along those lines
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14:11:46  <V453000>
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14:13:01  <planetmaker> lol
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15:04:26  <andythenorth> V453000: BAD FEATURE: using real world stats
15:08:51  <planetmaker> given the funky definition of length in OpenTTD, I don't even know what 'real world stats' would be :)
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15:23:36  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: typically that's a "error code was lost somewhere, so we resolved error code 0"
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15:25:03  <krinn> planetmaker> I didn't check anything. Should I have checked anything, krinn ? <- yep maybe, why some strings are reject in english.txt while ok in other language ?
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15:26:09  <planetmaker> please be more specific, krinn
15:26:36  <krinn> getting example 2s
15:28:31  <krinn> check STR_AWARD_OWN_MULTI
15:29:09  <krinn>
15:30:25  <krinn> french/german is tag correct, englihs is tag invalid
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15:32:11  <planetmaker> Does GS allow 16 parameters for a single string?
15:32:45  <planetmaker> I seem to recall from NewGRFs that strings do not allow more than 8 parameters
15:32:56  <krinn> don't remember, checking
15:33:33  <alluke> heqs doesn't allow clay on dumpers
15:33:33  <alluke> wth
15:34:10  <planetmaker> hm... is it {NUM} not {COMMA}?
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15:35:59  <krinn>
15:36:00  <krinn> 20
15:36:07  <planetmaker> <-- only mentions {COMMA} not {NUM}
15:37:05  <planetmaker> krinn, same format as OpenTTD doesn't say about parameter number :)
15:37:47  <planetmaker> actually the best description of OpenTTD's text format actually is eints' documentation
15:38:04  <krinn> i don't get the {COMMA} vs {NUM}
15:38:17  <krinn> doc says {COMMA} = 10,000 {NUM} = 10000
15:38:51  <planetmaker> the difference is COMMA vs NUM :)
15:38:56  <krinn> companies cannot be bigger than 15, so {NUM} or {COMMA}...
15:38:56  <planetmaker> different spelling :D
15:40:00  <planetmaker> but obviously your GS works with {NUM}, it does, yes?
15:40:14  <planetmaker> so that should be an allowed tag
15:40:26  <planetmaker> but eints probably does consider it invalid currently
15:40:37  <krinn> well, for 2 yes, for german i suppose
15:41:19  <planetmaker> no, no. Only consider english.txt
15:41:23  <krinn> it's accept in openttd, i don't know visually if it's ok for german, and eints accept it in german and french
15:41:40  <planetmaker> german.txt and french.txt are alright as they depend on the base language and *require* the same tags as the base language.
15:42:00  <krinn> ah, no validation on other than english.txt right ?
15:42:13  <planetmaker> that's the canonical form of tags which are considered
15:42:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i still think that eints is struggling with the plural
15:42:34  <planetmaker> as in principle you might - at least for NewGRFs - define your own tags
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15:42:46  <planetmaker> I don't think that's the case, Eddi|zuHause
15:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause> because almost all failed strings have plural tags, and no plural tag is in an accepted string
15:43:31  <Eddi|zuHause> but it would really help if eints actually gave an error message
15:43:33  <krinn> well, if number < 1000 {COMMA} == {NUM} no (for human), and for computer using {NUM} < {COMMA}
15:43:38  <planetmaker> All failed strings have {NUM} vs {COMMA}
15:43:57  <planetmaker> and {COMMA} is for NewGRFs, so eints might just not consider {NUM}
15:44:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but some accepted strings have {NUM} as well
15:44:27  <planetmaker> the plural in that form works in dozens of projects
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15:46:07  <alluke> andythenorth: why heq
15:46:22  <alluke> s dumpers can't transport firs clay?
15:46:35  <planetmaker> krinn, best idea probably is to bug alberth when he returns
15:48:08  <krinn> ok thank u
15:48:30  <andythenorth> alluke: because no-one has fixed that bug
15:48:49  <alluke> ah its a bug
15:48:50  <alluke> ok
15:48:55  <andythenorth> it is a bug
15:52:01  <andythenorth> someone could fix it
15:52:04  <andythenorth> it’s probably easy
15:52:31  <Eddi|zuHause> if only there were someone who understands cargo classes
15:53:27  <andythenorth> if only my HEQS compile worked :P
15:53:48  <andythenorth> actually I could probably just fix the code and push, see what the compile farm does
15:55:12  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I can’t remember how nfo works, cba to look up the spec
15:55:13  <andythenorth>
15:55:23  <andythenorth> lines 10, 14, 15
15:55:29  <andythenorth> are what needs changed
15:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause> remove prop 16, use the include/exclude cargo lists
15:59:30  <krinn> that eints should read and display the #comment on previous line of the string param. 1/ i add sometimes comment for translator on it 2/ it would allow eints to support some #$$$$$$$ tag for "don't translate next line"
16:00:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so remove line 10, add two lines: 24 00; 25 NN XX YY ZZ ...
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16:01:15  <andythenorth> just let it refit bulk I reckon
16:01:16  <Eddi|zuHause> where XX, YY, ZZ are index of cargo translation table, and NN is the number of entries listed
16:02:09  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: this is on CTT labels?
16:02:17  <andythenorth> I can probably just set a class
16:02:22  <andythenorth> maybe I have to go the docs :P
16:02:27  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, position in CTT
16:02:42  <andythenorth> yeah, sorry, same thing in my head
16:02:45  <planetmaker> I don't think it should spam the comments to translators
16:03:06  <andythenorth> oh maybe clay has sheltered set or something
16:03:14  <planetmaker> and as discussed earlier: strings can all be translated, krinn. Everyone in your GS
16:03:21  <planetmaker> and they all need it
16:03:48  <planetmaker> and having {ORANGE}{STRING} "translated" doesn't hurt
16:04:06  <krinn> nah, you don't translate name
16:04:14  <planetmaker> of course
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16:04:22  * andythenorth is happy that merges are now allowed
16:04:28  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it already includes bulk
16:04:38  <andythenorth> it excludes something
16:05:19  <andythenorth> not having a build makes this a bit of a guessing game :P
16:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause> "CLAY   Clay   0210 Bulk covered/sheltered"
16:06:01  <andythenorth> hmm HEQS isn’t building on push
16:06:14  <planetmaker> krinn, and the "no-translate-string" thing was extensively discussed. The use cases are marginal at best. And definitely not worth any trouble to implement
16:06:44  <krinn> yep agree, could dub {ORANGE}{STRING}
16:06:48  <krinn> not worth the effort
16:07:02  <planetmaker> the translators have a 'copy string' button. it's easy
16:07:06  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I added push to .devzone for HEQS
16:07:10  <planetmaker> :)
16:07:10  <andythenorth> will that get picked up?
16:07:34  <planetmaker> if you added it as described, it will
16:07:46  <planetmaker> probably in around an hour, if changes are made
16:07:48  <andythenorth> ah ok
16:08:00  * andythenorth might go and do some proper work
16:08:08  <andythenorth> either I fixed HEQS, or broke it
16:08:10  <andythenorth> dunno :P
16:08:16  <planetmaker> you broke it ;)
16:08:30  <andythenorth> alluke: as the reporter of the bug, you can test the ‘fix'
16:08:31  <andythenorth>
16:08:35  <andythenorth> when it turns up
16:08:35  <planetmaker> as you would have seen in .devzone channel
16:08:48  <planetmaker> compile failure. twice
16:08:56  <andythenorth> bloody jenkins :)
16:09:03  <planetmaker>
16:09:08  <alluke> okay
16:09:22  <andythenorth> oh yeah, you have to maintain counts and stuff in nfo
16:09:26  <andythenorth> that was fun
16:09:34  <andythenorth> and I don’t have renum to tell me
16:09:56  <planetmaker> it fails on missing definition in Makefile, I think
16:10:16  <planetmaker> just see the log :)
16:10:18  <alluke> i wonder how noone havent reported such obvious bug earlier
16:10:53  <planetmaker> everybody though someone would do what anyone could do, thus noone did do
16:11:04  <andythenorth> hurgh
16:11:10  <andythenorth> well it’s now properly broken :)
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16:11:17  <andythenorth> I cba to fix it right now
16:11:30  <planetmaker> I need to fix my bike, too :)
16:11:36  <andythenorth> I might try and fix my HEQS compile later, but it’s end of life
16:11:39  <planetmaker> that's more important now, I'm afraid. Bloody puncture
16:11:50  <andythenorth> this is either the last HEQS fix, or the previous one was
16:11:57  <andythenorth> planetmaker: kevlar tyres?
16:12:10  <andythenorth> I got kevlar tyres in 2003 and have *never* had a puncture since
16:12:17  <andythenorth> I have blown off three valves
16:12:29  <andythenorth> and put a wire bead from the tyre through the tube
16:12:45  <andythenorth> but I have also pulled 4 cm industrial staples and pieces of broken glass out of the tyre
16:12:49  <andythenorth> with no puncture
16:13:12  <andythenorth> maybe HEQS is officially dead
16:13:31  <alluke> what?
16:15:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: r773 compiles here
16:16:10  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if the local rev is the same as the global rev :p
16:16:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Änderung:        773:2ce0bc35f69b
16:16:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Nutzer:          planetmaker <>
16:16:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Datum:           Wed Feb 19 22:23:08 2014 +0100
16:16:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Zusammenfassung: Cleanup: [Makefile] Remove unneeded pieces from old version(s)
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16:17:28  <andythenorth> that looks a bit behind
16:17:41  <andythenorth> r777 is my tip
16:17:51  <Eddi|zuHause> that is right before your changes, yes
16:19:35  <andythenorth>
16:19:40  <andythenorth> maybe that should be in a newgrf :P
16:20:54  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why does r774 change so much?
16:28:43  <alluke> had to build a rail trough city to get the clay
16:31:07  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: :o
16:31:14  <andythenorth> I didn’t diff before pushing
16:31:20  <andythenorth> must be historical crap
16:31:35  <andythenorth> I haven’t touched or built HEQS for ~18 months
16:32:00  <Eddi|zuHause> weirdly, r775 build here, with sed errors on readme stuff
16:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause> but r777 reports renum errors
16:32:27  <andythenorth> yeah I think that’s a bad property count somewhere
16:32:37  * andythenorth flying blind :P
16:32:43  <andythenorth> can’t even find the log on jenkins right now
16:32:57  <andythenorth> looks like I should have pushed 774 in a branch :P
16:33:27  <Eddi|zuHause> /!!Warning (99): No more data was expected. Found 28 bytes, expected 25 bytes.
16:33:44  <andythenorth> oops
16:34:38  <andythenorth> that is probably in template_mining_trucks_commonaction0.tnfo
16:34:44  <andythenorth> probably \b8 is worng
16:34:45  <andythenorth> wrong *
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16:34:55  <andythenorth> my nfo skills are rusty to the extreme
16:35:11  <Eddi|zuHause> why did you even change that?
16:35:41  <andythenorth> I removed a prop 16
16:36:21  <Eddi|zuHause> +    1A 00     // Refit cost, using 25% of the purchase price cost base
16:37:54  <Eddi|zuHause> so just roll back r777
16:38:07  <Eddi|zuHause> because you added a property and forgot to increase it :p
16:39:15  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, this was weirdly commented out before
16:39:17  <andythenorth> for no obvious reason, that property was previously there, but commented
16:39:17  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, if you look at the jenkins output: heqs builds. But the build fails due to sed errors on readme
16:39:22  <andythenorth> looking like it was an accident
16:39:40  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, same for me
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16:40:20  <Eddi|zuHause> there were some weird makefile changes in r774
16:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause> probably should just roll them back
16:41:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose i have push rights for heqs :p
16:42:38  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so roll back r777 and the makefile changes of r774, then it should build
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16:46:52  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you just gained rights :P
16:47:12  <Eddi|zuHause> mÀh..., now i have to actually do stuff :p
16:48:20  <andythenorth> my feeling exactly :P
16:48:49  <planetmaker> I haven't exactly installed the acl extension on the DevZone yet. So...
16:48:59  <andythenorth> I have been using this heqs bug to motivate working on my RV set
16:49:09  <andythenorth> as I couldn’t easily win a NCG GS game :P
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16:49:16  <andythenorth> involving clay
16:49:40  <andythenorth> I had to build actual trains
16:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> is there an official hg way to remove a commit?
16:51:08  <Eddi|zuHause> other than "you just created another head"
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16:56:18  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: should be building now
16:58:01  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, hg backout
16:59:31  <__ln___>
17:00:25  <planetmaker> __ln___, but it's not April 1st!
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17:02:38  <krinn> does this mean bald korean will be execute ?
17:03:35  <__ln___> there are no bald koreans
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17:50:43  <andythenorth> ah
17:50:49  <andythenorth> my HEQS build is sulking about clang I think
17:50:51  <andythenorth> oh well
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18:14:19  <djura-san> \o/
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18:17:02  <djura-san> so how do you actually use sawmills? I just place them after founding and then what?
18:17:14  <djura-san> I see no forest around it
18:17:16  <djura-san> :\ÅŸ
18:18:07  <planetmaker> click one. See what it wants
18:18:12  <planetmaker> Usually that will be wood
18:18:20  <planetmaker> Thus: Deliver wood
18:18:53  <djura-san> How can i deliver wood to it?
18:18:54  <planetmaker> also learn about the industry chain view. As accessible from the industry view
18:19:00  <djura-san> That is my question actually
18:19:11  <planetmaker> build a station near it.
18:19:23  <planetmaker> similar like you ship coal from a mine to the powerplant
18:19:30  <planetmaker> you ship wood from a forest to a sawmill
18:19:32  <djura-san> I noticed that station accepts wood now.
18:19:57  <djura-san> planetmaker: and another stupid question: to make the train get wood from forest...
18:20:03  <djura-san> ah i get it now :D
18:20:17  <djura-san> thank you planetmaker
18:20:28  <planetmaker> a forest is an industry. Not just a random tree on the map :)
18:20:43  <planetmaker> use the minimap to search for them
18:20:52  <djura-san> Okay, i dont get it then. What if i have no forests?
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18:21:00  *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba
18:21:01  <glx> the green spots on the green map ;)
18:21:03  <planetmaker> then the sawmill is pointless to have :)
18:21:07  <djura-san> :(
18:21:21  <djura-san> Okay then. Thank you.
18:21:50  <planetmaker> there can be terrain conditions where it's very hard to have one. In arctic they need to be above snow line and on somewhat flat terrain
18:21:57  <planetmaker> thus if you have no snow, then no forests
18:22:38  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:22:57  <djura-san> and if i select "founding industries only" at the begining, no fun to play it with industries at all :)
18:24:50  <djura-san> One more question: is it possible to remove building texture or somehow hide it so i can just see clean roads? Poking using sense is not very productive nor good
18:25:04  <planetmaker> press ctrl+x. Adjust settings
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18:25:27  <djura-san> this is so awesome. THank you planetmaker
18:25:27  <planetmaker> furtheron, just use x to toggle transparency / invisibiltiy
18:25:43  <djura-san> even more awesome :D
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18:29:14  <Wolf01> hi hi
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18:29:39  <djura-san> older game saves are usable on never versions right? Is there something that i should be aware of in case of migrating from version to version?
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18:32:38  <Eddi|zuHause> unless you used custom patchpacks, all you have to do is install and start the new version
18:33:39  <djura-san> :)
18:39:46  <djura-san> may i ask how to delete that leftover of road turn without destroying the whole tile? I dont wanna rebuild it again so that it stays as city property and not mine
18:40:17  <Eddi|zuHause> press "r" while building
18:41:17  <Eddi|zuHause> works with most build tools
18:41:17  <djura-san> thank you. YOu just saved ma 1 road tile that dont have to pay
18:41:42  <djura-san> I will keep that in mind Eddi|zuHause
18:42:35  <Eddi|zuHause> especially useful when you want to remove a bus stop
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18:43:48  <djura-san> True that.
18:46:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26429 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2014-03-26 18:46:00 UTC)
18:46:14  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:15  <DorpsGek> catalan - 1 changes by juanjo
18:46:16  <DorpsGek> croatian - 1 changes by Tifached
18:46:17  <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 1 changes by Phreeze
18:46:18  <DorpsGek> polish - 25 changes by Kilian
18:46:19  <DorpsGek> russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:46:20  <DorpsGek> slovak - 2 changes by Milsa
18:46:21  <DorpsGek> spanish - 3 changes by juanjo
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19:02:40  <andythenorth> V453000: I think everyone has misunderstood your question :(
19:02:42  <andythenorth> except me
19:02:46  <andythenorth> I am specially awesome
19:04:13  <Phreeze> lol
19:04:25  <Phreeze> that's what your mum said
19:04:39  <V453000> andythenorth: I am not sure if the retards even realize that I actually already created such set 2 years ago :D
19:04:46  <andythenorth> phreeze yeah, your mum told me my mum had said
19:05:08  <Phreeze> how nice they are :)
19:05:10  <V453000> but yeah, you misunderstand the logic of forums, aim is not to reply sensibly, but to reply
19:05:50  <andythenorth> Phreeze: let’s not raise the game on ‘your mum'
19:05:53  <andythenorth> it goes badly
19:06:08  <frosch123> does that mean you do not consider my concerns about train sets not supporting autorefit?
19:06:28  <andythenorth> does your mum consider them?
19:06:37  <andythenorth> oh, what has started :(
19:06:39  <andythenorth> sorry
19:06:45  <frosch123> need to google that
19:06:54  <andythenorth> it’s an absolute rule in England that when someone starts ‘your mum’ you have to keep it going
19:06:59  <andythenorth> your mum keeps going
19:07:08  <V453000> frosch123: :D
19:07:10  <andythenorth> Phreeze: can you declare game over or something
19:07:35  <Phreeze> ^^
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19:13:44  <frosch123> drones so strong
19:14:33  <andythenorth> V453000: I kind of want to argue in that thread just to provide a counter-point :P
19:14:48  <andythenorth> it’s really annoying when everyone is nice and appreciative and reasonable
19:14:50  <V453000> andythenorth: now the idea is just to let them rage
19:14:55  <V453000> the more they rage the better
19:15:13  <andythenorth>
19:17:27  <andythenorth> V453000: if I post my thoughts it might cause trouble
19:17:45  <andythenorth> “nearly every train newgrf I have tried is not as good as the default vehicles"
19:17:59  <V453000> entirely valid
19:18:12  <V453000> go ahead please :)
19:20:01  <andythenorth> hrm
19:20:25  <frosch123> i wouldn't actually agree with that :p
19:20:33  <frosch123> the default vehicles are actually quite bad
19:21:08  <andythenorth> they’re pretty good if you don’t use FIRS
19:21:26  <frosch123> you need at least ogfx+ stuff to add refitting instread of single cargo
19:21:33  <andythenorth> I had opengfx+ forced on me by MP games
19:21:40  <andythenorth> I would never have chosen it willingly
19:21:44  <V453000> frosch123: there are more than TEN vehicle generations. NONE of the newGRFs has that
19:21:45  <andythenorth> but it’s actually pretty good fun
19:21:46  <V453000> none
19:21:48  <V453000> sadly, none
19:21:59  <andythenorth> v?
19:22:02  <andythenorth> wtf?
19:22:08  <V453000> in no newGRF, you never autoreplace ten times
19:22:09  <andythenorth> oh maglev and crap
19:22:19  <V453000> well 9 in temperate without monorail or maglev
19:22:22  <V453000> not even counting that
19:22:38  * andythenorth looks
19:22:39  <frosch123> V453000: you are mixiing issues
19:23:00  <V453000> why so?
19:23:10  <V453000> it is one of the most important aspects of a train set
19:23:12  <frosch123> you should separate between "years between generations" and "total timeframe"
19:23:13  <V453000> how many vehicles it provides
19:23:29  <V453000> I didnt say anything about timeframe
19:23:29  <frosch123> most sets only work for < 80 years, which is too few for 10 generations
19:23:46  <V453000> not my problem if they still provide e.g. 200 vehicles
19:23:59  <V453000> and 195 of them are worthless
19:24:09  <andythenorth> there are only 68 years in default between the trains
19:24:15  <andythenorth> worst - best
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19:25:01  <frosch123> well, i guess it boils down to people playing ottd as a game, and people using ottd as a drawing program to create sceneries
19:25:18  <V453000> +-
19:25:18  <frosch123> there are people who use ottd only to create screenshots
19:25:24  * andythenorth compares default and IH
19:25:25  <frosch123> and then ask what cargodist is for :p
19:25:39  <frosch123> cargodist does not add anything to screenshots!
19:25:45  <frosch123> it's a terrible feature
19:25:52  <V453000> cargodist doesnt add anything to normal gameplay either.........
19:25:59  <V453000> just like autorefit
19:26:07  <frosch123> depends no your "normal" :p
19:26:15  <andythenorth> normal is point to point lines
19:26:20  <andythenorth> as per original TTD
19:26:25  <frosch123> autorefit is a workaround for not having consist replacement
19:26:26  <andythenorth> don’t use signals, they are broken
19:26:33  <andythenorth> build as many tracks as trains
19:27:11  <andythenorth> IH has 20 locos, default has 14
19:27:23  <andythenorth> IH starts 1870, default 1925
19:27:27  <frosch123> rct has no junctions, does it?
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19:33:44  * andythenorth busy busy removing vehicles
19:34:07  <andythenorth> V453000: how many vehicles in NUTS now?
19:34:08  * andythenorth looks
19:34:32  <frosch123> something like 10-20 per class
19:34:37  <V453000> idk shitload
19:34:38  <frosch123> with around 10 classes
19:34:43  <V453000> 9 per class
19:34:48  <V453000> 44 final train choice
19:34:52  <V453000> (different usage trains)
19:35:05  <V453000> some even have 4 per class only
19:35:17  <V453000>
19:35:36  <V453000> ok 33
19:35:37  <frosch123> hmm, indeed, only 9
19:35:38  <V453000> :D
19:35:49  <alluke> combined roadset doesn't work on 1.4.0 rc1
19:36:17  <frosch123> because?
19:36:34  <alluke> age?
19:37:07  <alluke> its green at the bottom of grf list and i still get ogfx roads
19:37:49  <andythenorth> V453000: delete like 50%?  Deleting is much more fun than making...
19:38:07  <V453000> andythenorth: solved that by making expiring vehicles work
19:38:17  <andythenorth> how did you do it?
19:38:18  <V453000> now removing all wagons and trying to supplement them with one ultimate wagon
19:38:22  <andythenorth> I have failed so far at expiring
19:38:30  <V453000> adding model age?
19:38:44  <frosch123> you need to enable expiration in advanced settings :p
19:38:53  <V453000> it is made so that 1-3 trains per class are available, not more
19:39:01  <V453000> oh yeah plus that obviously
19:39:30  <andythenorth> I had some formula to remove the old model when new model appears
19:39:33  <andythenorth> but it didn’t work
19:39:53  <V453000> that would be helpful
19:40:31  <andythenorth> specifying a replacement model (by ID) in action 0 would be helpful
19:40:36  <andythenorth> then AI and OTTD could sort it out
19:40:41  <V453000> Also, when I started using nuts with expiring vehicles, I dicovered that e.g. most RV newGRFs are totally useless in year 2100
19:40:51  <andythenorth> V453000: I think you can shorten that statement
19:40:54  <frosch123> andythenorth: play ttd :p
19:40:56  <frosch123> *ttdp
19:41:05  <andythenorth> “most RV newGRFs are totally useless”
19:41:12  <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> frosch123: there are more than TEN vehicle generations. NONE of the newGRFs has that <-- one of the design goals for CETS was a new vehicle generation every 10 years [which means 10 generations over 100 years]
19:41:17  <V453000> :D well yeah but in useless here I mean there arent any vehicles, even for my hopes like egrvts ._.
19:41:57  <frosch123> heqs is the only useful one, except it has the usual andy problems
19:42:05  <frosch123> almost no intro dates
19:42:18  <andythenorth> quoi?
19:42:21  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: tell me when CETS is done :P
19:42:26  <frosch123> maybe that is andys problem
19:42:33  <andythenorth> what is no intro dates in HEQS? :o
19:42:41  <frosch123> most vehicles are available all the time, so there are too many to pick from
19:42:44  <andythenorth> herp
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19:42:53  <andythenorth> when playing are you?
19:42:56  <frosch123> whenever i play heqs i have 5 of 6 trams already available
19:43:02  <frosch123> am i playing it wrong? :p
19:43:04  <andythenorth> there are too many trams :P
19:43:07  <andythenorth> is problem
19:43:14  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: CETS is "done" if you don't care about graphics :)
19:43:41  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i'm sure you'll find something to complain about
19:45:12  <Eddi|zuHause>  <alluke> combined roadset doesn't work on 1.4.0 rc1 <-- iirc the bridge part of combroads is broken, disable it (parameter) and use newbridges.
19:45:37  <V453000> graphics are kind of the biggest part of work on a newGRF Eddi, sorry :D
19:46:11  <V453000> anyway gtg
19:46:12  <V453000> cyaz
19:46:28  <andythenorth> bye V453000
19:46:36  <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of which, can i call pixeltool from python?
19:46:40  <andythenorth> maybe I have ‘solved’ an RV set this time
19:46:49  <andythenorth> I think this is 5th (?) attempt
19:46:53  <andythenorth> now just have to code it
19:46:59  <andythenorth> I have binned last week’s effort
19:47:47  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what is it?  PHP or JS?
19:48:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's JS
19:48:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't actually try it
19:48:09  <andythenorth> what do you want to do?
19:48:18  <andythenorth> you could write a python http app that makes calls to it?
19:48:23  <andythenorth> or just pass them to curl?
19:48:28  <Eddi|zuHause> throw a JSON at it and get an image out
19:48:45  <andythenorth> zeph has it hosted as a web service?
19:48:53  <Eddi|zuHause> or rather, throw 1000 JSONs at it
19:49:06  <andythenorth> maybe run your own version locally then :P
19:49:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm thinking something compile-farm-y
19:49:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it should be local code that is run
19:49:51  <andythenorth> I wonder if you can run Zeph’s JS in node?
19:49:52  <andythenorth>
19:50:02  <andythenorth> I know nothing about node, other than some aspects of it are a joke
19:50:05  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, just calling it from the makefile should do
19:50:21  <andythenorth> you have a JS execution environment?
19:50:28  <Eddi|zuHause> no'?
19:50:48  <andythenorth> hmm
19:50:52  <andythenorth> maybe phantom js would do it
19:51:02  <andythenorth> I am poking in the dark
19:51:40  <frosch123> it's runs client side
19:51:55  <frosch123> the http part is useless for python
19:52:00  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the point is, which interpeter to call?
19:52:14  <frosch123> you need a not-browser-based javascript interpreter
19:52:27  <alluke> is there any grf for green ttd oneway arrows
19:52:37  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i don't know any
19:53:02  <frosch123>
19:53:03  <andythenorth> or you script phantom js to make calls and then save the output
19:53:08  <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: get them out of openttd.grf?
19:53:28  <alluke> how?
19:53:51  <frosch123> i always considered the green arrows the ugliest part of openttd.grf :p
19:53:59  <frosch123> the white arrows are much nicher
19:54:02  <frosch123> -h
19:57:46  <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: in you openttd dev environment, look in media/extra_grf
19:58:26  <Eddi|zuHause> just give it a GRF-ID and you have a [newgrf-static]-able GRF
19:59:05  <alluke> where do i find openttd dev environment?
20:01:20  <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: you check out the source code
20:01:43  <Eddi|zuHause> or on
20:01:46  <frosch123> or put the md5sum of openttd.grf into opengfx.obg
20:05:09  <andythenorth> hmm
20:06:52  <Eddi|zuHause> "seamonkey-venkman" <-- is that a ghostbusters reference?
20:16:22  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, so googling "venkman" only has ghostbusters as 3rd result
20:16:58  <frosch123> hmm, i never saw ghostbusters
20:17:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i had some ghostbusters episode as audio tape
20:17:25  <frosch123> i thought i knew all legendary movies
20:17:43  <Eddi|zuHause> not the movie, the cartoon series
20:17:55  <frosch123> there is a cartoon series?
20:18:12  <Eddi|zuHause> in which country did you grow up? :p
20:19:08  <frosch123> with pal tv
20:19:12  <Eddi|zuHause>
20:20:01  <frosch123> never heard about that one
20:20:21  <frosch123> but well, i wouldn't bother about a series anyway
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20:22:53  <andythenorth> pikka le bird
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20:32:13  <Pikka> it might do
20:37:24  <andythenorth> what if it doesn’t?
20:38:33  <Pikka> then there will be no maglevs
20:38:58  <Pikka> but what of andy truck sim 2?
20:39:18  <andythenorth> le maclef
20:39:26  <andythenorth> Pikka: I had to delete most of it
20:39:32  <andythenorth> I made it and looked at it
20:39:33  <andythenorth> not good
20:39:46  <Pikka> o
20:39:50  <andythenorth> can’t be helped :P
20:40:02  <andythenorth> I’ll just make it again quickly now
20:40:03  <andythenorth> hang on
20:40:12  * Pikka hang son
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20:46:55  <Eddi|zuHause>
20:47:01  <peter1138> What should I do?
20:47:07  <andythenorth> go north
20:47:22  <Pikka> newairports, peter1138
20:47:39  <peter1138> Impossibru.
20:48:10  <Pikka> Eddi|zuHause, silly melbournians
20:48:31  <Pikka> peter1138, articulated shipbusses
20:48:58  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: didn't you want to do newgrf presets? :)
20:50:28  <peter1138> Yeah but now
20:50:41  <peter1138> Still confused where font-kerning came from :p
20:52:12  <Pikka> oldgrf postsets
20:52:25  <peter1138> Yes yes
20:54:52  <frosch123> did you ponder pondering?
20:55:03  <peter1138> Hmm
20:56:25  <Flygon> Oi
20:56:27  <Flygon> I'm not silly
20:56:29  <Flygon> Just single decker!
20:58:18  <Flygon> And don't diss it til you've visited the Dumb Ways To Die theme park!
20:58:19  <Flygon> D:
20:58:45  <andythenorth> hmm
20:58:47  <andythenorth> somewhat fixed it
20:58:56  <Flygon> Anyway. Off I go, on a rusty constantly-air compressing Comeng :U
20:58:59  <andythenorth> 76m views
21:00:00  <andythenorth> hmm
21:00:05  <andythenorth> truck sim 2 remade
21:00:16  <andythenorth> need some names for stuff
21:00:34  <Pikka> names are overrated
21:00:40  <Pikka> "truck 1", "truck 2", etc
21:00:53  <andythenorth> oh you saw my tracking table :(
21:00:54  <Pikka> "small truck", "big truck"
21:01:05  <Pikka> "another truck"
21:01:14  <frosch123> if your set has 5 trucks you can name them pakka, pekka, pikka, pokka, pukka
21:01:40  <peter1138> Hmm, so many options, dunno what to set...
21:01:53  <Pikka> the TTO demo had "old plane", "old bus"
21:02:09  <frosch123> really?
21:02:30  <Pikka> yep. but only the AI could build them, the player was limited to trains
21:02:36  <frosch123> sounds like "modern armor" in civ
21:03:07  <andythenorth> which of these is most correct?
21:03:08  <andythenorth>
21:03:11  <andythenorth>
21:03:14  <andythenorth>
21:03:18  <andythenorth>
21:03:34  <andythenorth> case is ‘small fast container truck'
21:03:35  <frosch123> speaking about realism: if you do not have tanks in 1400 in civ, you probably lose :p
21:03:55  <Pikka> number 2, andythenorth
21:04:09  <andythenorth> because...?
21:05:06  <Pikka> becauseeee
21:05:14  <andythenorth> ok
21:05:19  <andythenorth> that’s reasonable
21:05:23  <Pikka> cabover semis are the bestests
21:06:13  <frosch123> comparing 2nd with 3rd, the toytruck is out of scale
21:07:03  <frosch123> the 1st one looks very wrong
21:07:56  <frosch123> it has a long front, is a one-piece without trailer, and has a weird small crane on the back, which has no use for a container
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21:08:25  <Pikka> big exhaust pipe though
21:08:34  <frosch123> sometimes trucks have forklifts on the back, but for containers they are pointless as well
21:08:40  <Pikka> and shiny mudguards
21:08:45  <andythenorth> it’s a sideloader container thing no?
21:09:30  <Pikka> I don't think so, I think it's just a crane
21:10:12  <Pikka> style of business
21:10:56  <andythenorth> I was thinking of doing a thing
21:11:11  <Pikka> hmm
21:11:33  <Pikka> you know what we need, peter1138?
21:12:10  <Pikka> a flag which tells us whether the vehicle is loading or unloading. for tipper trucks and the like.
21:13:59  <andythenorth> we do? :o
21:14:06  <Pikka> don't we?
21:14:29  <frosch123> there is, but it is not exposed to newgrf
21:14:41  <Pikka> well yes, that's what I mean, frosch123 :)
21:14:58  <frosch123> should we just add it to var ff?
21:15:08  <Pikka> we should
21:15:45  <andythenorth> what will I do with it?
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21:15:52  <andythenorth> unloading spriteses?
21:15:59  <Pikka> possibly
21:16:42  <andythenorth> do I have to support losers whol play past 2020?
21:16:44  <andythenorth> who *
21:16:57  <frosch123> actualy even ttdp has that flag in that var
21:17:10  <andythenorth> if you haven’t won NCG or SV in 100 years with a 1920 start, then you are loser in my book of rules :P
21:17:16  <frosch123> need to figure out whether it is bit 0 or 1 though
21:17:30  <Pikka> I don't know, andy
21:17:43  <Pikka> I feel the same way, I mean who even uses maglevs? waste of time...
21:17:54  <andythenorth> you are making some?
21:18:06  <Pikka> probably should
21:18:08  <andythenorth> I am not even trolling now :P
21:18:30  <andythenorth> I’d rather spend the time making 150 years of good stuff, not 300 years of “I made too much, I got bored now"
21:18:38  <andythenorth> making = newgrfing :P
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21:27:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26430 trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp (2014-03-26 21:27:37 UTC)
21:27:44  <DorpsGek> -Feature(ette): Add vehicle modflag 1 (unloading in progress).
21:33:27  <frosch123> <- correct naming?
21:34:13  <andythenorth> looks good
21:34:42  <andythenorth> who knows what evils authors will do with that :)
21:35:59  <andythenorth> so will the purchase menu gain auto-refit and loading speed info?
21:36:09  <andythenorth> or do I have to keep putting it in myself?
21:36:11  <andythenorth> o_O
21:36:19  <Pikka> no, and no. :D
21:37:52  <frosch123> it will certainly not get autorefit info for a long time :)
21:38:12  <frosch123> loading speed info has the problem that there is no decent unit for it
21:38:19  <andythenorth> ’10’
21:38:20  <frosch123> "units per day" is silly :p
21:38:22  <andythenorth> it’s unitless :P
21:38:42  <frosch123> so, better put in some custom text like "fast" or "very fast"
21:38:54  <andythenorth> what limits autorefit?
21:38:56  <andythenorth> it’s just a bool
21:39:07  <frosch123> you would want to know which cargos support it
21:39:11  <frosch123> which involves a lot of magic
21:39:14  <andythenorth> all of them have to
21:39:17  <frosch123> esp. for articulated vehicles
21:39:24  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:39:40  <frosch123> so i doubt it will happen without vehicle sandboxing
21:40:09  <andythenorth> I was just proposing reading the flag :P
21:40:21  <andythenorth> looked like 1 or 0
21:40:32  <andythenorth> or 1 AND 0 I guess for articulated consists :(
21:40:46  <Pikka> andythenorth: but why would you have some vehicles autorefittable and some not? ;)
21:40:51  <andythenorth> I don’t
21:41:07  <andythenorth> why would you?
21:41:14  <Pikka> I wouldn't neither
21:41:23  <andythenorth> sounds like Doing A Wrong
21:41:30  <andythenorth> Being A Silly Sausage
21:41:36  <Pikka> I mean, I would, I'm sure UKRS2 does
21:41:43  <Pikka> and only allows certain cargos too
21:41:49  <Pikka> but that's because UKRS2 is terrible
21:42:03  <andythenorth> actually I think I made a combined pax-mail coach which the pax bit doesn’t autorefit
21:42:07  <andythenorth> just the one
21:42:10  <andythenorth> just a little one
21:42:13  <andythenorth> just a morsel
21:42:22  <Pikka> if autorefittability is a general feature of the set, and all sets from now on, it doesn't really need to be in the buy menu :)
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21:42:55  <andythenorth> this is
a point
21:44:15  <peter1138> 

21:44:23  <Pikka> 

21:44:32  <andythenorth> Pikka: you bodged
21:44:47  <Pikka> who bodges the bodger?
21:45:35  <frosch123> so, where are my tipper trucks and train lorries?
21:46:18  <Pikka> good question
21:46:28  <frosch123> V453000: i think ducks should show different graphics depeding on whether vehicles are entering or leaving them
21:47:05  <andythenorth> 4 container trucks or 3?
21:47:09  <andythenorth> 4 tipper trucks or 3?
21:47:33  <andythenorth> if I do 4, then I get 40 trucks in total
21:47:34  <Pikka> yes
21:47:38  <andythenorth> 40 is a multiple of 8
21:47:48  <andythenorth> otherwise I have 36
21:47:51  <andythenorth> not multiple of 8
21:47:53  <frosch123> make a double decker truck with two containers on top of each other
21:48:00  <Pikka> do 864
21:48:04  <andythenorth> frosch123: considering it
21:48:05  <andythenorth> they exist
21:48:11  <frosch123> :o
21:48:14  <Pikka> something about tunnels
21:48:41  <andythenorth> frosch123:
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21:49:02  <andythenorth> @calc 864/8
21:49:02  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 108
21:49:15  <Pikka> those must be fun on a windy day
21:49:17  <andythenorth> Pikka: 864 is obviously silly
21:49:25  <andythenorth> why would you suggest such a thing? o_O
21:49:40  <frosch123> at what height is their barycenter?
21:49:40  <Pikka> because it's a multiple of 8
21:49:54  <andythenorth> Pikka: and what kind of idiot needs multiples of 8 in their set?
21:51:03  <Pikka> this page clearly states "for empty containers"
21:51:12  <Pikka> double-stack container wagons are a big fat phony
21:51:17  <andythenorth> I was hoping you wouldn’t notice :(
21:51:26  <Pikka> they still must be fun on a windy day
21:51:27  <andythenorth> my set is very focussed on realism
21:51:36  <andythenorth> empty is more fun?
21:51:36  <frosch123> V453000: also ducks should balance some cargo on their head or bill
21:52:27  <Pikka> do you have your ducks in a row, frosch123?
21:53:50  <Pikka> monorails and maglevs are so boring... no bogies, no pantographs, no exhausts or other fiddly bits
21:54:10  <alluke> +1
21:54:39  <frosch123> i like monorails because they are so plain and non-busy
21:54:47  <frosch123> never liked maglev though
21:55:24  <andythenorth> Pikka: do the lego monorail
21:55:31  <andythenorth> has bogies
21:55:42  <Pikka> eh
21:56:16  <Pikka> actually my monorail ended up looking like a MRT or something... it's high-capacity rather than high-speed
21:56:22  <andythenorth>
21:56:30  <Pikka> I only did one passenger monorail because monorails are boring
21:56:47  <Pikka> maglev will have container wagons and suchlike
21:57:05  <frosch123> some bridge set had a super simple monorail bridge
21:57:15  <frosch123> no pillars just the rail crossing the deep
21:57:24  <frosch123> unrealistic, but cool :)
21:57:47  <alluke> 1922 crates of engineering supplies
21:57:57  <alluke> where in earth do i shove those
21:58:02  <frosch123> waiting? or production per month?
21:58:23  <Pikka> shove them down mines, alluke
21:58:39  <andythenorth> playing FIRS?
21:58:42  <alluke> i dont have enough mines nearby
21:58:42  <alluke> yeah
21:59:12  <frosch123> enough?
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21:59:22  <frosch123> there is no limit how much you can dump into one, in there?
21:59:24  <alluke> atm theyre going into one clay pit and two dredging sites
21:59:38  <alluke> nope
21:59:40  <Pikka> andythenorth, the lunar train (now in OpenGFX Mars) was vaguely based on the Futuron monorail...
22:00:08  <andythenorth> is this ‘full FIRS’?
22:00:11  <andythenorth> full FIRS is stupid
22:00:16  <alluke> theyre already producing so much stuff its hard to transport them all
22:00:18  <alluke> not
22:00:23  <alluke> simple temperate
22:00:35  <alluke> its a vicious circle
22:01:21  <alluke> i have one train carrying 828 tons of clay trough a city
22:01:44  <alluke> running out of space
22:01:55  <andythenorth> you go from no supplies to too many supplies
22:01:58  <andythenorth> it’s unbalanced
22:02:13  <alluke> yeah
22:02:16  <Pikka> could always use cargodist ;]
22:02:21  <frosch123> hmm, i remember some patch for adjusting them
22:02:25  <frosch123> was that added?
22:02:36  <andythenorth> not yet
22:03:52  <alluke> two million liter trains carrying chemicals outta harbour
22:04:30  <andythenorth> it’s best played with a GS like NoCarGoal or SV
22:04:31  <frosch123> <- only a month old, i thought it was last year
22:04:51  <andythenorth> :)
22:06:08  <andythenorth> I should put the passenger crap in
22:06:13  <andythenorth> do we even need passenger RVs?
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22:07:33  <Pikka> yes we do, because we create proper networks in our town to transport passengers to the station, rather than just stationwalking
22:07:35  <frosch123> in a truck set?
22:08:09  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:08:39  <andythenorth> meh
22:08:41  <Pikka> yes, because who's going to make a complimentary bus set?
22:08:49  <andythenorth> so have you got a HOVses sprite I can borrow>
22:08:50  <andythenorth> ?
22:08:58  <Pikka> only ancient ones
22:09:02  <andythenorth> that’s ok
22:09:04  <andythenorth> it’s placeholder
22:09:17  <Pikka> hmm
22:12:06  <Pikka> I have some old ones of dan's
22:13:22  <andythenorth> that will do
22:13:26  <andythenorth> are they on internets?
22:13:52  <Pikka> they are in a pm
22:14:12  <andythenorth> yay
22:14:13  <Pikka> also, you could always go down the zbase path and just add windows to a truck and call it a bus. ;)
22:14:14  <andythenorth> they’ll do nicely
22:16:55  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:40:24  <andythenorth> 4 buseses
22:40:28  <andythenorth> 4 tramseses
22:40:34  <Pikka> heeps
22:40:36  <Pikka> for a truck set
22:40:44  <andythenorth> it’s 2 too many imho
22:40:46  <andythenorth> but meh
22:41:01  <andythenorth> once you have tram lines, you don’t want to replace them all with buseses?
22:41:34  <Pikka> trams are a bit silly
22:41:41  <Pikka> and AIs make a mess with them
22:44:26  <andythenorth> silly AI
22:45:32  <andythenorth> bye Pikka and other peoples
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23:49:18  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, using the CF to call on the pixeltool could actually work
23:49:36  <planetmaker> the URL is fixed for pixeltool and json and curl might work
23:49:51  <planetmaker> feel free to experiment :)
23:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that feels extremely weird
23:50:20  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i probably want to make changes to pixeltool :)
23:55:07  <planetmaker> giving you a fork of it would not be hard :)
23:55:24  <planetmaker> or maybe even access to it. Though you then talk about that to Zephyris

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