Log for #openttd on 7th April 2014:
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02:22:14  <Dan9550> afternoon
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06:20:31  <planetmaker> moin
06:22:49  <V453000> moo
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06:25:30  <planetmaker> miau ;)
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07:01:46  <supermop> i have used more spackle/wall patch this afternoon than my dad and myself have used in our combined lifetimes to date
07:01:59  <supermop> and i am not even done with the first coat
07:10:39  <Eddi|zuHause>
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08:44:47  <maddy_> hi
08:45:34  <V453000> hy
08:55:03  <maddy_> I have been playing in SP game for the last few days, not been very active on "coop", I am trying to learn some stuff by myself
09:02:00  <V453000> cant say that is a bad thing
09:03:04  <maddy_> so you're glad I haven't messed up the coop network too badly? :)
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09:26:14  <planetmaker> that neither :)
09:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i totally read that as "if you don't play, you can't screw anything up"
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09:50:15  <V453000> :d
09:50:16  <V453000> no.
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09:59:18  <peter1138> Morning.
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11:04:01  <peter1138> Hah, copy & pasting from a PDF... it copies each letter as a new line :S
11:04:29  <peter1138> "Select the database system corresponding to your needs. These options are available:"
11:04:33  <peter1138> "MySQL 5"
11:04:43  <peter1138> "... a commercial license may be needed for use in a commercial environment."
11:04:48  <peter1138> Uh huh...
11:05:27  <peter1138> Failure to understand GPL there :)
11:06:55  <LordAro> lol, GPL#
11:28:30  <planetmaker> nah, method. they hope you don't so that they can sell it to you for big $$$
11:35:30  <peter1138> Different vendor.
11:36:11  <peter1138> You can license MySQL from Oracle differently if you needed it, but that is not needed just to use it in a commercial situation.
11:36:41  <__ln__> but they said "may be needed"
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11:51:27  <peter1138> Sure... scaring people :p
11:52:49  <Pinkbeast> I think it's malice not incompetence, and I did spend 10 years working at the Great Satan of Databases
11:56:44  <maddy_> it's not that bad really
11:58:51  <maddy_> as long as the statement is true, that a commercial license is needed in -some- cases
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12:30:53  <planetmaker> maddy_, if the programme is licensed GPL, then in *no* case a commercial license is needed
12:33:39  <Wolf01> hi hi
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12:54:46  <talebowl> Hi, yesterday I had a problem where, after compiling, my changes wouldn't show up (and for info, version number in the titlebar was 1.4.0-RC1 and not a rev#). After I ran make (or ./configure and make) again, they did show up. Atm, I have the same problem, only now running any combination of ./configure, make clean, and make any number of times doesn't seem to solve it. Even tried to make some dummy changes to trigger make in cases w
12:54:46  <talebowl> here I didn't run clean before. My changes keep not showing up (only difference in the code between now and when did show up last night is a call to the DEBUG macro wrapped in an if) and versionnumber in the titlebar keeps being 1.4.0-RC1. Does anyone have any ideas what might be causing this? (I have verified that I'm running the correct executable. My working dir is ~/OpenTTD/trunk/, I'm running ~/OpenTTD/trunk/bin/openttd with or
12:54:47  <talebowl> without -d 1)
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13:14:24  <planetmaker> talebowl, how did you obtain your source? what vcs do you use?
13:15:17  <talebowl> the subversion repository. svn --version is "svn, version 1.7.9 (r1462340)  compiled Oct 15 2013, 12:40:34"
13:15:31  <planetmaker> ok
13:16:11  <planetmaker> while I would recommend you for real development work to use mercurial or git instead of subversion, it doesn't matter a lot
13:16:18  <planetmaker> what does svn info tell you in that repo?
13:17:08  <talebowl> svn info:
13:18:04  <planetmaker> ehm... then I can only assume that you started the wrong openttd binary
13:19:18  <talebowl> I can see how that would be the logical conclusion :) Just to be sure, It should be:[repo]/bin/openttd right?
13:19:30  <planetmaker> yes
13:20:20  <planetmaker> if that repo was a svn trunk checkout, you can never get a binary with a release version
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13:20:32  <planetmaker> releases have different svn URL
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13:22:05  <talebowl> weird.. I'll check if I can get the file modification time of the binary I'm using... As I've verified that I'm in the correct path: "~/OpenTTD/trunk/bin$ openttd -d 1"
13:22:23  <planetmaker> ehm...
13:22:27  <Taede> try "./openttd -d1"
13:22:40  <planetmaker> yeah. ./bin/openttd -d1
13:22:50  <Taede> so it runs from the current working dir
13:23:07  <planetmaker> talebowl, if you don't specify explicitly local path, the global binary is called
13:23:25  <planetmaker> openttd uses installed openttd from package manager
13:23:33  <planetmaker> ./openttd uses binary in local dir
13:23:47  <planetmaker> local dir is never in path
13:24:05  <planetmaker> (unless you set that yourself - but that's not advisable)
13:24:06  <talebowl> Oh my... how did I not see that :p
13:24:30  <talebowl> Thanks :)
13:24:40  <planetmaker> welcome
13:25:50  <planetmaker> talebowl, anyhow, when you're into patching, use of mercurial or git will make your life much easier than using subversion
13:26:38  <planetmaker> I'd recommend mercurial but opinions may vary
13:28:56  <mg_> hi :) question. i have some fishing ships set up, they go around collecting fish and dropping them at the harbour. it's year 1856 so i now have 3 horse carriages, every one transprots only 8t of food to a nearby city. and those ships bring in hundreds of tonnes. until there are trucks available, most of the fish will just lay around in the harbour. does it affect fish somehow? i mean, is there some time (days etc) after which those f
13:29:52  <talebowl> on git/hg: Hmm, I'll look into that after I'm done with this.
13:30:52  <planetmaker> mg_, the fish will rot. And decay
13:33:40  <mg_> so the ones which are not fresh will disappear after some time?
13:35:05  <planetmaker> read up on station rating in wiki. Or game concepts :) That explains it
13:35:21  <planetmaker>
13:35:31  <mg_> okay, i will thx :)
13:35:58  <planetmaker> if rating < 50% stuff will start to vanish
13:39:30  <Pinkbeast> mg_: But there's no special degradation mechanic for what one would normally think of as perishables.
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13:42:15  <planetmaker> yeah. Farm supplies vanish at the same rate ;)
13:54:46  <mg_> yeah i know thats the case when you don't keep up rating %. just was wondering if its the same with fish :)
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14:26:25  <planetmaker> every cargo is the same :)
14:26:58  <planetmaker> it's just names. And prices which differ. And destinations. And vehicles which can transport it. And passenger class vs. other classes
14:30:14  <mg_> ok, got it
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14:48:09  <Eddi|zuHause> all cargos are the same, except they are different
14:48:30  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds a bit cargoist
14:49:29  <Pikka> some cargos are more the same than others
14:52:24  <zydeco> except passengers
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18:46:10  <andythenorth> o/
18:46:18  <andythenorth> Pikka lo
18:47:47  <Pikka> hello anandy!
18:50:20  <Pikka> wie geht's?
18:50:28  <andythenorth> Horsing
18:50:38  * andythenorth wonders what to horse next?
18:50:46  <Pikka> such hoss
18:50:47  <andythenorth> I suppose fixing the broken
18:50:51  <Pikka> what have you horsed so far?
18:50:58  <andythenorth> hrm
18:51:13  <andythenorth> I have horsed engine and wagon speeds
18:51:18  <andythenorth> and capacities
18:51:22  <andythenorth> more of some and less of others
18:51:34  <andythenorth> I have to horse offsets some time :(
18:51:36  <Pikka> running costs. or sprite offsets, yes
18:51:37  <andythenorth> avoiding that :P
18:51:49  <andythenorth> oh, you looked in my issue tracker :(
18:52:21  <Pikka> make newstandardtemplate.png
18:52:41  <Pikka> farm out fixing all the sprite positions to the plebs on the forum?
18:52:54  <andythenorth> newstandardtemplate_final_final_new.png
18:53:00  <andythenorth> sprite positions is ok
18:53:05  <andythenorth> priblem is
18:53:10  <andythenorth> I fixed all the offsets
18:53:14  <andythenorth> then did this 10/8 thing
18:53:28  <andythenorth> now broken is
18:53:30  <Pikka> what 10/8 thing
18:53:49  <Pikka> just the one 10/8 thing, or many 10/8 things?
18:53:52  <andythenorth> each vehicle is 3 articulated vehicles
18:53:59  <andythenorth> graphicses are on middle unit
18:54:07  <andythenorth> Dan is persuasive :P
18:54:10  <andythenorth> as is Eddi
18:54:18  <Pikka> you made everything 10/8?
18:54:24  <andythenorth> no, but
18:54:29  <andythenorth> everything is 3 things
18:54:37  <andythenorth> fun times
18:55:01  <Pikka> even the <=8/8 things are 3 things?
18:55:04  <andythenorth> yup
18:55:09  <Pikka> por qua
18:55:14  <andythenorth> because stuff
18:55:19  <andythenorth> easier to write one lot of code once
18:55:48  <Pikka> mmkay
18:55:55  <Pikka> so
18:56:11  <Pikka> no reversible locos? no MUs?
18:56:17  <andythenorth> none of that
18:56:21  <andythenorth> indeed
18:56:54  <andythenorth> is good decisions?
18:56:56  <andythenorth> dunno
18:57:20  <Pikka> sounds a bit like bad feetures to me
18:57:28  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE
18:58:48  <andythenorth> I can always do a v2 :P
18:59:05  <andythenorth> otoh, it means no HST :D
18:59:10  <andythenorth> and no Eurostar
18:59:13  <andythenorth> so there are upsides
18:59:13  <frosch123> i know two letters of your next grfid
18:59:23  <andythenorth> :P
18:59:24  <planetmaker> why is it a bad feature? :)
19:00:20  <Pikka> how am I going to run my 3-tile coal trains with no eurostar?
19:00:28  <andythenorth> well it required a total rewrite of 50% of the code, to add just a couple of 10/8 or 9/8 vehicles, and excludes some things like MU and vehicle flipping
19:00:48  <andythenorth> on the other hand, it provided a perfect instant framework for Road Vehicles, with about 20 mins of changes
19:01:00  <andythenorth> due to way it handles everything as articulated consists
19:01:07  <andythenorth> so losses and wins
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19:01:28  <andythenorth> ‘framework’ urgh
19:02:00  <planetmaker> you should use the new grf wizard ;)
19:02:04  <andythenorth> Pikka: you put one big electric engine on the front, and one on the back, you are ok
19:02:15  <Pikka> or I just wait for maglev
19:02:17  <andythenorth> planetmaker: is it xml?
19:02:21  <Pikka> there are maglevs, right?
19:02:23  <andythenorth> Pikka: what is ‘maglev’?
19:02:35  <andythenorth> maglev is thing in tracking table
19:02:37  <andythenorth> not in game
19:02:40  <frosch123> maybe try making a frameleisure instead of a framework
19:02:49  <planetmaker> haha :)
19:02:59  <andythenorth> frameslack
19:03:34  <Pikka> framecruise
19:03:55  <andythenorth> framesnooze
19:04:07  <andythenorth> hmm framelunch
19:04:10  * andythenorth is hungry
19:04:39  <andythenorth> this boring disk erase is boring
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19:05:34  <Pikka> hence the adjective
19:05:42  <andythenorth> all these zeros
19:05:48  <andythenorth> why can’t it write all the 0s at once?
19:05:58  <andythenorth> it’s actually going to every bit and setting zero :P
19:06:17  <Pikka> how else could it do it?
19:06:25  <andythenorth> remember etcha-sketch, how you could wipe the whole thing in one pass?
19:06:26  <andythenorth> that
19:06:37  <Pikka> mmm
19:07:22  <Pikka> you should patent that, could be a revolution in hard-drive wiping
19:07:37  <andythenorth> I wondered
19:07:41  <andythenorth> usually we just drill them
19:07:46  <andythenorth> but I don’t like the waste :P
19:07:52  <Pikka> oh
19:07:54  <andythenorth> I’d like to reuse this one
19:08:00  <Pikka> I was going to say, if you're not reusing it then
19:08:03  <Pikka> but if you are then
19:08:25  <andythenorth> after drilling, they’re not as usable, generally
19:08:31  <Pikka> true
19:08:54  <Pikka> also some kind of pun around "boring disk erase"
19:09:12  <andythenorth> :P
19:09:46  <andythenorth> is anyone drawing the trucks I need?
19:10:01  <Pikka> the trucks you want, or the trucks you need?
19:10:09  <Pikka> or the trucks you deserve?
19:10:13  <andythenorth> there is difference?
19:10:20  <andythenorth> I treat all 3 as synonyms
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19:11:49  <Pikka> probably not, then
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19:13:34  <andythenorth> is anyone drawing any trucks, anywhere?
19:13:50  <Pikka> someone, somewhere.
19:13:56  <andythenorth> maybe I just teach code to draw them
19:14:10  <Pikka> yes
19:15:50  <andythenorth> Pikka: have you made a squirrel army yet?
19:16:04  <Pikka> I have not
19:16:12  <andythenorth> how hard can GS be?
19:16:16  <andythenorth> too hard for andythenorth ?
19:16:25  <Pikka> not at all
19:16:25  * andythenorth is not very clever
19:16:41  <Pikka> I just haven't gotten around to the gs yet :o
19:17:29  <andythenorth> we need more of them
19:17:33  <andythenorth> 2 is not enough
19:17:37  <andythenorth> I should make one
19:17:47  * andythenorth wonders if Eddi|zuHause could write a GS code generator :P
19:21:37  <andythenorth> Pikka: type info (‘Suitable for’ etc in NARS 2)
19:22:03  <Pikka> yep
19:22:26  <andythenorth> all of it?
19:22:32  <Pikka> yep
19:22:37  <andythenorth> hmm
19:22:50  <andythenorth> it’s ok in FISH
19:22:57  <Pikka> partly because I didn't want to bother with translations, though ;)
19:23:01  <andythenorth> I have it in place for IH, with dummy text
19:23:14  <andythenorth> I started writing real text, but I have nothing to write :P
19:23:22  <andythenorth> Type: electric locomotive
19:23:23  <andythenorth> :P
19:23:28  <andythenorth> useless
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19:24:10  <Pikka> Type: a bit better than that one loco in one way, but not as much as the other one, but maybe you could have worked this out for yourself by looking at the stats
19:24:36  <andythenorth> I could try and impose my opinions on players
19:24:41  <andythenorth> “Only for use on freight"
19:25:05  <andythenorth> “Use this for moderately fast suburban services with at least 3 stations, but no gradients more than 2 tiles long"
19:25:17  <planetmaker> but not in winter
19:25:19  <planetmaker> ;)
19:25:24  <Pikka> HEP
19:25:29  <Pikka> another brilliant NARS2 feeture
19:25:33  <andythenorth> “Only use this if you are modelling the GWR between 1945 and 1948"
19:25:38  <andythenorth> hmm
19:25:44  <Pikka> this loco doesn't have a train heating boiler, no passenger carriages
19:25:51  <andythenorth> I would actually file HEP under NOT GOOD FEATURE
19:26:05  <andythenorth> took me fricking ages to work out why me engines were crippled :P
19:26:18  <andythenorth> silly Pikka
19:26:26  <Pikka> tres :)
19:26:36  <andythenorth> we do it because we can
19:26:39  <andythenorth> not because it’s wise
19:27:33  <andythenorth> also, just finished reading this, it’s good
19:28:14  <andythenorth> “Design is Law”
19:28:17  <andythenorth> except it’s not
19:28:21  <andythenorth> technology is
19:37:02  <andythenorth> where is lightning in ottd?
19:37:50  <rubidium> it's always clear and sunny in OpenTTD
19:38:52  <Taede> rainshowers dont last long enough to show up
19:39:29  <planetmaker> well, a day is 2.2 seconds and I definitely have seen a week of (nearly) continuous rain in RL :P
19:39:52  <planetmaker> annoying would be day-night-cycle
19:40:05  <planetmaker> like switching between OpenGFX and NightGFX by the second :P
19:40:24  <andythenorth> should rain for a year
19:40:46  <planetmaker> time is an abstract concept anyway. It's just another dimension
19:40:54  <rubidium> I just assume the OpenTTD planet surface is tidally locked to its star
19:41:15  <planetmaker> what an inhabitable place :)
19:41:30  <planetmaker> or what a dense atmosphere
19:41:32  <Taede> at least its nice n flat
19:41:33  <planetmaker> can't decide :)
19:41:33  <Taede> and square
19:41:34  <glx> the wind is weird too IIRC
19:41:40  <Taede> none of this spherical roundness
19:41:53  <planetmaker> it's an effect of the tidal locking. Strong winds :)
19:42:07  <planetmaker> Taede, maybe it's an old, abandoned borg cube?
19:42:17  <rubidium> yeah, clear and sunny, and tidally locked don't really combine
19:42:29  <rubidium> unless there is no atmosphere at all
19:42:39  <planetmaker> oh, there could be a dense atmosphere
19:43:02  <rubidium> that explains the poor acceleration then ;)
19:43:09  <planetmaker> that could distribute by strong winds the heat input more or less evenly. Like on Venus. Not sure it needs clouds - though they add to it
19:44:17  <planetmaker> maybe it's all under a dome anyway - then those considerations don't play much of a role
19:44:23  <planetmaker> could also explain eratic wind directions
19:44:37  <planetmaker> it also explains the map edges
19:45:12  <Taede> or its indoor, with artificial lighting
19:46:00  <planetmaker> I like the idea of a habitat on the sunny surface of a tidally locked body around a dwarf star better :P
19:48:20  <peter1138> Pom te pom
19:48:46  <andythenorth> did anyone solve Ocean?
19:49:03  * andythenorth didn't
20:00:41  <Pikka> who's Ocean?
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20:01:34  <planetmaker> 11, 12 or 13 ;)
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20:06:36  <frosch> ah, so it wasn't just me
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20:22:39  <peter1138> Er
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20:37:27  <peter1138> Hmm
20:39:03  <planetmaker> is it actually only me who find the distinctions between orders and timetable view unnecessary?
20:39:53  <frosch> i guess it is a try to make it less complex :p
20:40:03  <frosch> count the buttons on both windows, then add them :p
20:40:38  <planetmaker> yeah. But it makes it more complex to really setup orders properly. Speed limits only in time table. order types only in other view...
20:40:51  <frosch> we need clickable text to incorporate light dropdown widgets into text
20:40:59  <peter1138> I hardly ever look at timetables.
20:41:02  <frosch> or a complete icon driven order gui with suborder :p
20:41:06  <planetmaker> they complement eachother. But not necessarily in a way which is logical. I doubt it can be logical
20:41:54  <planetmaker> yeah something like that, or both.
20:42:00  <planetmaker> icons + text drop-down. dunno
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20:42:05  <planetmaker> hmm... :)
20:42:45  <SpComb> who designed this Finnish train set thing
20:42:52  <SpComb> the DMUs seem to be so very crap
20:43:13  <planetmaker> doesn't the readme say?
20:43:22  <planetmaker> or grf description even?
20:43:58  <Pikka> being crap is the nature of DMUs...
20:45:47  <andythenorth> mine are SUPER BAD!
20:45:53  <andythenorth> they go 75mph and everything
20:46:16  <planetmaker> what an odd number
20:46:44  <andythenorth> how are timetables supposed to be used?
20:47:12  <andythenorth> I do use them, but only to set waiting time for pax trains, and only because there’s no minimum load % order
20:47:31  <andythenorth> I don’t understand all the buttons
20:50:04  <frosch> just click them
20:50:14  <frosch> i am sure that's what they are for
20:50:35  <andythenorth> Every wagon in Iron Horse is auto-refittable
20:50:46  <andythenorth> so is it worth putting ‘Offers auto-refit’ in the buy menu?
20:50:57  <Pikka> nope
20:51:10  <Pikka> down with extra text in the buy menu!
20:51:20  <andythenorth> remove the cb?
20:51:32  <Pikka> mebe
20:52:19  <frosch> put a individual haiku in the description of every vehicle
20:52:20  <SpComb> but it's like a 111km/h DMU that instantly goes to 20km/h as soon as it hits a single hill at full speed
20:52:59  <Pikka> that's string-power for you
20:53:19  <peter1138> non-"realistic" acceleration? :p
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21:00:03  <frosch> night
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21:14:28  * andythenorth kills all the ‘type:’ crap
21:14:34  <andythenorth> simpler buy menu
21:16:24  <LordAro> interesting
21:16:47  <LordAro> according to my facebook feed, zephyris got married
21:17:46  <andythenorth> people do
21:22:36  <LordAro> weird
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21:36:06  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:41:02  <andythenorth> bed for me
21:41:03  <andythenorth> bye
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