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00:40:19 <supermop> can some callback change passenger decay rate when load percentage is over a certain amount? 00:41:48 <Supercheese> cargo_age_period callback, make it based on cargo_count / cargo_capacity 00:42:21 <Supercheese> So crowded passenger cars are less comfortable and so lowered payment, eh? 00:46:18 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:48:25 <supermop> i cant think of a good way to model a vehicle with moderately comfortable seats, but some standing room that may well be crush loaded 00:49:08 <supermop> so i was thinking, set capacity to be the crush load, but with a note as to how many seats in the buy menu 00:49:38 <supermop> then if the load is >seat number, switch from slow decay rate to fast decay rate 00:50:04 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d110-32-11-122.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:50:35 <supermop> possibly with 3 levels: all seated, seated with comfortable amount of standees, and crush load 00:51:40 <supermop> but the player has little ability to limit trams loading beyond seated capacity anyway 00:52:56 <supermop> i guess one could use conditional orders 00:54:41 <supermop> i don't want it based on refits, that is player chooses in depot whether a tram has standing passengers or only seated 00:55:26 <Supercheese> Yes, I see what you mean 00:56:03 <supermop> and packed tram lines should be 'punished' but still make money 00:56:52 <supermop> but a tram car running as a light rail to the next town with 100 people hanging off the side should not 00:57:48 <supermop> it would be really cruel if loading time slowed with load too.. 01:00:39 <supermop> a bit unrelated: 01:02:13 <supermop> if the connection between a 2-car tram is bigger than 1 meter, would you code it as a 3 part vehicle with a very short middle car? 01:03:35 <Eddi|zuHause> as a personal rule of thumb: i don't create vehicle parts less than 3lu (~6m) 01:04:15 <supermop> ah 01:05:01 <supermop> i'd say its about 2.5m on this tram, and 4-6 people can stand (uncomfortably) in there 01:06:14 <Supercheese> I don't think loading speed would change much with load percent 01:06:25 <Supercheese> the same people/sec can go through doors 01:06:42 <supermop> i often have to fight my way from my seat to the door though 01:06:56 <Supercheese> ah, if others aren't getting off yeah 01:07:06 <Supercheese> well in OTTD it's everybody-off-everybody-on at every stop 01:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but you do that _before_ arriving at the station 01:07:53 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: yes, i should 01:08:03 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i think cargo decay depending on load is a "BAD FEATURE" as long as you can't control it 01:09:17 <supermop> but often in rushhour here you have trams getting delayed because some idiot is standing in the stairwell and there is no room to move in 01:09:52 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: i think a tram set based on one city is nothing but "Bad Features" 01:12:27 <supermop> but the trams are right here and easy to look at, 01:13:17 <supermop> and i can go ride a progression of models from the 30s through to today when i need to get ideas for stats to make up 01:14:12 <Supercheese> Eh, giving a minor penalty (0-20%) to decay rate when severely overloaded seems fine 01:14:48 <Supercheese> not sure if it's particularly "realistic" 01:14:57 <Supercheese> I don't really ride any rail vehicles... well, ever 01:15:05 <Supercheese> D: 01:15:50 <Supercheese> Last time I took public transport was.... uh... twoish years ago? 01:16:08 <supermop> well i pay ~.50 no matter how far i ride, how fast the tram gets there, or how crowded it is along the way 01:16:36 <Supercheese> so yeah, "reality" doesn't care how full the trains are 01:16:41 <supermop> but the tram operator isn't exactly who i pay with that fare anyway 01:16:43 <Supercheese> although there may be off-peak tickets or such 01:17:17 <supermop> i pay the regional government, or rather their transit authority a certain amount to load up my fare card 01:17:42 <supermop> and they have a contract with a company that has won a tender to operate the trams 01:18:12 <Supercheese> I'm glad OTTD doesn't try to simulate that, imagine bidding for routes... 01:18:27 <supermop> presumably that authority could pay the operating company based on what ever incentives they chose 01:19:47 <supermop> lets say they agree to pay you $X per passenger mile, but they will penalize you if their constituents are complaining that their tram was too slow, too uncomfortable, or too crowded 01:20:16 <supermop> in which case the ottd model of passenger payments is not too unrealistic 01:20:52 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:21:25 <Supercheese> Of course, it's up to the set designer, do what you want really 01:22:09 <Supercheese> I like quite a few so-called "bad features" 01:25:21 <supermop> me too 01:26:02 <supermop> that said, 01:27:19 <supermop> i think it would be bad to have capacity for an 80s tram change sometime in the 90s (when they are being refurbished and seats are removed to make more standing room) 01:27:58 <supermop> it would be confusing to have refits with differring capacity and decay rates? 01:29:41 <supermop> especially if they new seats were more comfy, AC was added etc: so the newer refit has even slower decay when half full, but much worse decay when full 01:41:20 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:09:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.172.47] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:10:15 <Supercheese> Sounds tricky 02:10:42 <Supercheese> I didn't think you could limit refits based on current year though 02:10:50 <Supercheese> pretty sure all subtypes are always available 02:15:01 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:15:04 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:15:41 <Pikka> Supercheese, what makes you think that? :) 02:15:56 <Supercheese> just my recollection 02:15:59 <Supercheese> could easily be wrong 02:16:00 <Pikka> not that all this isn't definitely BAD FEATURES. It might be "realistic" though. 02:22:34 <supermop> can i adjust the spacing between articulated parts of a tram? 02:23:50 <supermop> Pikka: is there any good way to model crush loading vehicles? 02:24:39 <Pikka> you can adjust the spacing by making vehicles shorter or longer, just like with a train 02:25:06 <supermop> ok 02:25:12 <Pikka> and I don't know 02:25:39 <supermop> i guess you could just make the capacity the same as seat number 02:26:21 <supermop> although that would give newer, larger trams near zero capacity 02:26:29 <Supercheese> indeed 02:26:35 <Pikka> I mean you can always trade off speed/capacity/loadingspeed etc. but I think once you start refitting between capacities and mucking around with cargo decay you're into TMWFTLB / BAD FEATURE territory 02:27:14 <Pikka> when it comes to capacity, I'm all for the making up numbers that make sense from a gameplay point of view, rather than trying to be "realistic" 02:27:34 <supermop> i certainly dont want to refit capacity - or change it based on year 02:28:26 <supermop> hmm i guess could just make up a number as if all trams old or new were fitted out with some number of 2+2 seating 02:28:45 <supermop> and increase the number of seats with tram size 02:29:21 <supermop> so 30m tram hold twice as many people as a 15m oone, and not go into any further detail 02:31:04 <Supercheese> In reality, the trams have pretty much the same internal space available, regardless of technology 02:31:26 <Supercheese> so if you were aiming to just crap people in church-youth-group style, then they'd be roughly equivalent 02:32:20 <Supercheese> so your idea seems reasonable 02:33:17 <supermop> it seems like there should be some trade offs between the era of high and low floor trams 02:33:41 <supermop> and speed isn't an interesting differentiating factor for RVs 02:34:06 <Supercheese> if that did affect available space, then yeah 02:34:23 <Supercheese> there's always tractive effort and, indirectly, acceleration 02:34:34 <Supercheese> which would probably be more important than max speed in congested urban areas 02:34:36 <supermop> because i don't doubt that by 2050 some company with enough money could make a 300kmh bus if they really wanted to, but it would be useless 02:34:48 <Supercheese> indeed 02:35:32 <Supercheese> err, tractive effort + power 02:35:57 <supermop> it seems like every 20th C and later tram in melbourne has a top rated speed of 80kmh 02:36:36 <supermop> and i am not interested in either slowing early trams nor making later trams faster than that 02:38:58 <supermop> brb 03:03:05 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 03:06:02 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:08:59 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:16:10 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-66-108-182-178.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:16:30 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read 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[~p12345@4JQAADD9R.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:43:58 <Supercheese> Ugh, translating the zillion advanced settings strings is a slog-and-a-half 04:49:49 <Supercheese> Ahh, totally worth it, I get to use ablative supines 04:51:36 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has joined #openttd 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD574E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67669.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:02:39 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:16:44 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:16:44 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:29:41 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@122.298.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:39:52 *** LSky [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:11:59 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17:45 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-0-67.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:23:50 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:56:31 <NGC3982> Morning. 07:16:38 <supermop> hi 07:21:46 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 07:25:12 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 07:25:34 <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth 07:25:34 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 19 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <andythenorth> bye 07:34:51 <peter1139> @seen belugas 07:34:51 <DorpsGek> peter1139: belugas was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 13 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Belugas> hello 07:56:22 *** DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:18:58 *** djgummikuh [~djgummiku@srv02.letsplayonline.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:23:10 <Supercheese> valete 08:23:14 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 08:28:17 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 09:07:14 <peter1139> https://lobste.rs/s/3utipo/openbsd_has_started_a_massive_strip-down_and_cleanup_of_openssl 09:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause> let's just hope they don't do a debian-style "this code throws warnings and looks useless" type of strip down :p 09:08:37 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:08:44 <peter1139> Weirdly, they appear to be using CVS. Maybe that's an OpenBSD thing o_O 09:11:10 <Xaroth|Work> why would anybody want to use CVS :| 09:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> using CVS in early university almost made me stop using version control at all 09:30:21 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has quit [] 09:31:52 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has joined #openttd 09:41:39 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd 09:48:14 *** fjb is now known as Guest6526 09:48:16 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:55:22 *** Guest6526 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:08:05 <peter1139> Cool, my TLS configuration is so secure nothing can connect ;( 10:08:14 <Xaroth|Work> nice 10:08:22 <Xaroth|Work> that's how it's supposed to be, right? 10:08:29 <peter1139> Yes yes 10:14:05 * peter1139 cranks it down a couple of notches so that clients can actually connect. 10:14:37 <peter1139> (Except XP) 10:15:15 <Eddi|zuHause> is that one of those things where the machines say: "the world is safest when humans are extinct"? 10:15:41 <peter1139> Nah, it's a "your OS is too old to support TLSv1.2" thing. 10:20:54 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 10:29:53 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 10:39:03 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 10:58:27 <peter1139> https://github.com/robertdavidgraham/heartleech 10:58:45 <NGC3982> I hate cars 10:58:50 <NGC3982> I hate, i hate. I hate. 11:00:15 <peter1139> But... do they hate you? 11:01:27 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:08 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 11:04:42 <NGC3982> Apparently. 11:04:44 *** krinn [~krinn@150.227.101.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:00 <NGC3982> I noticed some brake fluid leakage on my v50 11:05:12 <NGC3982> It seems i need to change the full clutch all together 11:05:18 <NGC3982> 25% of the cars estimate worth. 11:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> get a car built before 2000 11:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> or one built before 1950 11:19:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the newer a product is, the more it is built to break after a certain time 11:19:15 <peter1139> +likely 11:19:40 <peter1139> But yeah, also those electronic gimmicks... 11:19:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and this time span reduces 11:19:45 <peter1139> (With lead-free solder) 11:19:54 <NGC3982> That seems way too arbitrary. 11:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a modern version of inflation 11:20:04 <NGC3982> The car has not been problemativ except that, though. 11:20:08 <NGC3982> But it's just.. 11:20:13 <NGC3982> I'm so frustrated right now. 11:20:23 <NGC3982> 14000SEK. 11:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> they need to sell 7% more cars every year 11:20:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but the target audience does not grow that fast 11:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so they need to sell more cars to the same people 11:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so they make the cars last shorter, so they have to buy more cars more quickly 11:21:38 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, studies into the claim that "the newer a product is, the more it is built to break after a certain time" by the Stiftung Warentest found that it cannot be held up with good justification 11:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> a good conspiracy theory is never defeated by facts :p 11:25:24 <NGC3982> I work with car insurance, and there is a -heavy- difference in the number of machinery faults since 2003-2004. 11:25:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but there certainly are examples for that. like that lightbulbs last exactly 1000 hours, while it's perfectly possible to make ones that last 100000 hours 11:25:51 <NGC3982> So, i do not agree. 11:25:52 <peter1139> NGC3982, more or less? heh 11:25:56 <NGC3982> Way, way less. 11:26:53 <NGC3982> Something happend with the motor industry between 2003-2004. The Swedish market suffered from less than half of it's predicted underwriting on motor/machinery faults. 11:26:59 <NGC3982> But that's just Sweden. 11:27:08 <NGC3982> I have no idea on how the rest of the world works. 11:27:34 <NGC3982> (And it has been like that since). 11:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: maybe they realized that with all the electronics in there, it's not really possible to repair stuff, so they put more effort in design? 11:29:10 <NGC3982> I don't know. 11:29:15 <NGC3982> Good guess, tho. 11:29:24 * NGC3982 is still pissed of his god damned mind. 11:29:27 <NGC3982> off 11:29:28 <NGC3982> offfffffff. 11:29:31 <NGC3982> Ass hats. 11:30:04 <__ln__> gesundheit 11:30:28 <NGC3982> The problem is that the clutch cylinder costs roughly 1500SEK 11:30:47 <NGC3982> But changing it requires changing the entire clutch system, and to dismount the engine. 11:31:06 <__ln__> that's only because sweden failed to join the euro. 11:31:10 <NGC3982> :( 11:43:27 <LordAro> http://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/28474/case-sensitive-vs-case-insensitive-passwords?rq=1 11:46:02 <NGC3982> tl;dr: Our IT security claims that case is irrelevant for password security. 11:46:13 <NGC3982> And i have no idea why 11:46:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.186.79] has joined #openttd 11:52:10 <peter1139> And then there are password schemes that only allow a-z and 0-9... 11:52:15 <peter1139> For some reason, banks like them. 12:00:15 <SpComb> SQL injection -proof 12:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: how does disallowing A-Z make it more SQL-proof? 12:03:27 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, you shouldn't store plain-text passwords anywa 12:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause> y 12:04:19 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:36 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has joined #openttd 12:05:07 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:05:35 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:05:40 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:16:23 <NGC3982> peter1139: And insurance companies. 12:16:26 <NGC3982> <--. 12:16:45 <NGC3982> Only a-z, 0-9 and one special digit. 12:16:51 <NGC3982> though, they do actually allow åÀö. 12:16:58 <NGC3982> Though* 12:25:51 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:40:43 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:42:46 *** Noldo [vheino@000129a8.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:42:59 *** Noldo [vheino@000129a8.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:50:57 <planetmaker> I'm always disgusted again by sites which say like "password max. 10 characters". omg, why?! 12:52:18 <V453000> REASONS 12:52:48 <blathijs> Saves on storage costs 12:56:25 *** supermop [~daniel_er@d110-33-172-236.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: supermop] 12:58:28 <NGC3982> Storage of what? Bytes? 13:00:21 <planetmaker> yet I wonder how many people would use much longer passwords? 13:00:35 <planetmaker> though a pass sentence is easier to remember and more secure :) 13:02:40 <NGC3982> Yeah 13:02:44 <NGC3982> Battery. 13:02:48 <NGC3982> ..Horse? 13:03:21 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:08:27 <Flygon> planetmaker: Even worse for the Australian Government's Centrelink online services 13:08:30 <Flygon> 7 characters max 13:08:37 <Flygon> My standard password is a smite bit longer than that 13:08:46 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@213.205.241.12] has joined #openttd 13:11:38 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@213.205.241.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:12 <TinoDidriksen> Max lengths for passwords quite clearly shows that they're storing passwords, instead of hashing them. 13:20:01 <planetmaker> yeah, made me wonder, too 13:20:21 <planetmaker> But then, the website I had to register with... they sent back login + password in plaintext in an e-mail to me 13:20:25 <planetmaker> so wouldn't matter anyway 13:21:00 <planetmaker> and tbh, the world biggest publishers handle logins just as securely 13:21:15 <planetmaker> (aka Elsevier) 13:21:42 <planetmaker> maybe they changed practise meanwhile, dunno 13:25:19 <LordAro> i like how "verified by visa" asks you for particular characters of your password 13:25:30 <LordAro> also showing that they must store it in plain text 13:25:37 <planetmaker> o_O 13:25:47 <LordAro> or at least an easily reversible algorithm 13:25:56 * peter1139 sets up smokeping to monitor his ADSL. 13:30:37 *** ttech2 [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 13:30:48 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 13:31:53 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:41:05 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 13:49:49 <Sacro> LordAro: or they store hashes of the combinations 13:50:40 <LordAro> possibly, but storing hashes of all 3-letter combinations of someone's password? seems unlikely 13:51:56 <planetmaker> that's not too many. 3 over n 13:52:22 <planetmaker> nor would they need to save all actually. They could just save a fixed set of combinations 13:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> well you could use a tricky hash function... 13:53:38 <planetmaker> like the identity-hash? :D 13:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 13:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean one that is homomorphic to leaving out letters 13:54:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is very serious maths, i doubt they go through that effort 13:55:14 <Sacro> There's no real reason to either 13:55:24 <Sacro> it's not likely a bank would get their DB compromised 13:55:39 <SpComb> ha ha 13:55:44 <planetmaker> :) 13:55:58 <theholyduck> Sacro, well any bank or anything else worth its salt 13:56:00 <Sacro> hashing only slows down the compromising of passwords 13:56:03 <theholyduck> is secured by more than just your password 13:56:04 <Sacro> theholyduck: eh? 13:56:06 <Sacro> yes 13:56:41 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d110-32-11-122.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:45 <theholyduck> my bank requires my social security number, my password, and one of 3 physical identification devices 13:56:49 <theholyduck> to log in 13:56:50 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:57:04 <Sacro> hah, SSN 13:57:21 <planetmaker> yeah. or the admin's ssh key ;) 13:57:23 <theholyduck> frankly, it doesnt really matter if my bank password is relativly easily remembered or cracked 13:57:44 <theholyduck> the physical component to logging in makes it secure 13:57:44 <Sacro> i have a username, password and fob 13:58:13 <Sacro> I'd hate them using SSN more tha anything else 13:58:21 <planetmaker> username, password + some kind of tan 13:58:30 <theholyduck> my bank has 3 options, you can have a fob, a scratch of card with 1 time codes printed 13:58:32 <theholyduck> or a cellphone 13:58:45 <Sacro> cellphone != good idea 13:58:52 <Sacro> especially SMS 13:58:57 <theholyduck> Sacro, which is why theres the 2 other options :P 13:59:07 <Sacro> scratch off OTP is nice 13:59:26 <theholyduck> its all about the level of convenience vs security 13:59:34 <theholyduck> the cellphone is very convenient, the fob is reasonably convenient 13:59:39 <theholyduck> and the card is very unconvenient :P 13:59:42 <Sacro> yes 13:59:47 <Sacro> but the cellphone is very insecure 13:59:56 <Sacro> fob is not too bad 14:00:01 <Sacro> card is great 14:00:22 <theholyduck> so, you get to pick your own level of usability vs security and stick with that 14:00:40 <Sacro> yup 14:00:59 <theholyduck> i have a scratch card in a socket-safe thing 14:01:12 <theholyduck> for if i cant for whatever reason use the 2 other authentications 14:01:48 <theholyduck> Sacro, as for the ssn, its how shit is done in norway 14:04:31 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@213.205.241.12] has joined #openttd 14:07:18 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@213.205.241.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:22 <Sacro> so long as there's somethign you have & something you know 14:18:05 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@122.298.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:44 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:44:09 *** montalvo [~montalvo@ip68-108-148-173.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd 14:46:02 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 14:47:24 *** krinn [~krinn@150.227.101.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 14:47:37 <krinn> hi 14:59:17 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.227] has joined #openttd 15:00:14 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:04:31 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:37 *** strohalm [~smoofi@80.84.209.151] has joined #openttd 15:07:24 <krinn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYWKyqyA8Rw&feature=player_detailpage#t=728 15:07:35 <krinn> rt effect with gpu 15:09:05 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:08 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:13:52 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:22:58 *** kais58_ is now known as kais58|AFK 15:25:43 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58_ 15:35:30 *** montalvo_ [~montalvo@ip68-108-148-173.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd 15:35:30 *** montalvo [~montalvo@ip68-108-148-173.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:03 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:20:48 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0089ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:34:32 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:04 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:49:43 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-4744.vo.lu] has joined #openttd 16:54:32 *** kais58__ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:55:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BBD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:56:14 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:58:19 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-83-134-115-66.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 17:04:17 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-83-134-115-66.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:10:47 <Phreeze> ahhh typo in my translation...shame on me 17:14:56 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 17:31:43 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:33:04 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 17:39:39 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:39:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:40:46 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:42:24 *** kais58__ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26465 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2014-04-15 17:45:37 UTC) 17:45:49 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:50 <DorpsGek> catalan - 23 changes by juanjo 17:45:51 <DorpsGek> croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne 17:45:52 <DorpsGek> english_US - 5 changes by Supercheese 17:45:53 <DorpsGek> finnish - 1 changes by jpx_ 17:45:54 <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 4 changes by Phreeze 17:45:55 <DorpsGek> swedish - 2 changes by Joel_A 17:57:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:57:36 <andythenorth> o/ 17:58:06 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 18:05:06 <Phreeze> p/ 18:05:10 <Phreeze> \o/ 18:06:42 * andythenorth wonders how many people he has to contact to re-license to WTFPL 18:12:36 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has quit [] 18:21:17 <idl0r> planetmaker: http://dpaste.com/1780623/ - do you want the bt or even the dump? 18:21:31 <idl0r> planetmaker: with the 1.4. git branch it works fine so far 18:22:37 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-4744.vo.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:23:54 *** mg_ [~mg@cpc3-cdif14-2-0-cust195.5-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:24:47 <rubidium> idl0r: is that binary compiled with libxdg-basedir, and if so... which version? 18:25:59 <idl0r> rubidium: yes, 1.1.1 18:26:08 <rubidium> then https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=730487 is probably your problem 18:28:31 <rubidium> the reason why the 1.4 branch might work is because stripping isn't enabled there and as such the binary layout it different, making the chances of hitting this xdg bug change 18:28:35 <idl0r> rubidium: yep, works fine without xdg 18:30:35 * rubidium wonders whether to change the configure to reject those older xdg versions 18:31:05 <rubidium> oh... 18:31:08 <rubidium> gheheh 18:31:27 <rubidium> let me guess, the 1.4 branch doesn't link to libxdg-basedir 18:33:10 <rubidium> does the configure in 1.4 say something like "checking libxdg-basedir... needs at least version 1.2.0, libxdg-basedir NOT enabled" ? 18:34:16 <idl0r> 100 points 18:34:18 <idl0r> :) 18:34:19 <rubidium> then the backport in the 1.4 branch that was made hid the bug in libxdg-basedir due to refusing to link to it 18:34:20 <idl0r> checking libxdg-basedir... needs at least version 1.2, libxdg-basedir NOT enabled 18:35:43 * rubidium would've expected Gentoo to have the newer version of libxdg-basedir though 18:36:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:37:03 <idl0r> yeah, i just checked our bug tracker and there is indeed a version bump request for the already two years old 1.2.0 release.. 18:38:01 <idl0r> i might take care of it sometime this week 18:47:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> * andythenorth wonders how many people he has to contact to re-license to WTFPL <-- i refuse. 18:48:59 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you just saved me a lot of effort :) 18:49:11 <andythenorth> you donât like the terms? 18:49:21 <andythenorth> or you donât like fragmentation> 18:49:22 <andythenorth> ? 18:54:57 <frosch123> anyone playing with lira? 18:56:23 <frosch123> actually, is anyone playing with something other than pound, euro or dollar? 18:56:36 <LordAro> you can assume *someone* is 18:57:20 * Pinkbeast would play in old pence if one could. :-/ 18:57:29 <Taede> i used to play with guilders 18:57:36 <rubidium> just add a few lines to known-bugs.txt 18:57:48 <frosch123> guilders are fine too 18:57:53 <rubidium> ofcourse the exchange rates are never right 18:58:41 <rubidium> and why are the current exchange rates better than those a few years ago? 18:58:56 <frosch123> did you read my latest comment in that task? 18:59:16 <rubidium> no, I just read the title and though... ***sigh*** 18:59:30 <frosch123> i am seriously wondering why there are no bug reports about taking loan in steps of 387300000 lira 18:59:57 <frosch123> playing with most of the currencies is borderline silly 19:00:37 <rubidium> likewise-ish with the rial 19:00:54 <rubidium> but... you'd make rial = lira 19:00:56 <frosch123> yeah, "borrow 49010000" 19:00:57 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 19:01:54 <andythenorth> so is there an objection to flat docks, or just a lack of interest? 19:02:05 <frosch123> well, to be fair, taking/repaying loan is about the only round number in the game 19:02:07 <rubidium> which is totally wrong because 1 ITL = 18.18 (so 20) IRR 19:03:09 <rubidium> 1 GBP = ~42k IRR, so factor 50k? 19:04:57 <rubidium> lets see what the factors would become with the 'current' exchange rates and the (1, 2, 5) * 10**n (n>=0) rounding 19:05:50 <krinn> why not add random rate? so one could add bitcoin... and wow your loan just cause down from 10k to 1k ;) 19:06:13 <krinn> s/cause/goes :/ 19:11:39 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:13:45 <rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/cur.diff 19:14:07 <rubidium> not really usable that way :( 19:15:30 <frosch123> rial changes by factor 10? 19:16:11 <frosch123> what do you mean with "usable"? 19:16:48 <rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/cur.txt <- much more legible 19:17:18 <frosch123> ah, you mean a side-by-side diff 19:17:53 <rubidium> I think many will be mad because the exchange rate of EUR <-> pre-EUR is totally different, and exactly that is about the only fixed exchange rate there is 19:19:19 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 19:19:22 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:19:33 <frosch123> maybe :) 19:19:53 <frosch123> let's hope wolf01 actually plays with lira 19:20:02 <andythenorth> distract them with flat docks 19:20:08 <rubidium> e.g. EUR -> FRF = 6.86, so rounded that'd be 5. In the new 'way' it'd be 10 so off by a factor 2 19:20:52 <frosch123> round it to 5? 19:21:15 <frosch123> if eur = gbp, you can also make the conversion from euro to stuff, instead of pound to stuff 19:21:38 <rubidium> but it isn't ;) 19:21:50 <rubidium> unless we declare EUR is the base currency 19:21:57 <frosch123> yeah, that's what i mean :p 19:21:58 <LordAro> noo 19:22:28 <frosch123> LordAro: are you scottish? 19:22:45 <LordAro> no 19:22:45 <rubidium> http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=IRR&view=10Y <- interesting exchange rate over time 19:23:18 * Taede lives in scotland 19:23:47 <frosch123> what happend on 18 sep 2013? 19:24:20 <Taede> countdown to independenc referendum? 19:24:27 <Taede> that happens on 18sept this year 19:24:42 <frosch123> 13 sep 2013 actually 19:27:54 <Taede> hmm, not sure there was anything, anything specific? 19:29:40 <frosch123> irr<->gbp rate changed by factor 2 from one day to another 19:32:23 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:32:51 <rubidium> the wikipedia about the rial mentions completely differnet... well... dates/years 19:32:51 <Wolf01> hi hi 19:33:09 <Taede> cant find anything about that date in specific 19:33:56 <Alberth> evenink Wolf01 19:34:14 <frosch123> Wolf01: do you play ottd set to lira? 19:34:18 <krinn> http://archive.11alive.com/news/article/307894/40/Obama-speaks-to-Iran-leader-by-phone 19:34:23 <Wolf01> usually yes 19:34:38 <krinn> that should be more than enough to raise it 19:34:40 <Wolf01> some times I play with pounds or dollars 19:34:49 <frosch123> is it weird that loan are taken in steps of 387300k lira? 19:35:53 <frosch123> we are pondering about rounding conversion rate to sane factors, so it would be 200000k lira 19:35:54 <Wolf01> I don't care about that, once I earn the money I need, I give back all the loan :D 19:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i often play with "RM" 19:36:24 <frosch123> your problem 19:36:32 <Brumi> I usually play with forints which has an exchange rate of 378 in the game 19:36:50 <Brumi> and I don't find it strange that the loan is not taken in 'round' steps 19:37:06 <Brumi> I don't care really 19:37:08 <frosch123> interesting 19:37:33 <frosch123> when i noticed that numbers are that strange, it really surprised me :) 19:37:41 <Brumi> :) 19:37:44 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but "rounding" the loan amount means that when you hit (unrounded) max loan you always have this "broken" loan amount leftover 19:38:07 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: stop talking off-topic nonsense 19:38:21 <Brumi> the only problematic thing is sending money to other companies 19:38:36 <Brumi> but I also got used to that as well 19:38:37 <krinn> i don't think anyone need to adjust that, that would makes sense only if the game really have real value of money 19:38:57 <frosch123> Brumi: that happens with all conversion rates :) 19:39:07 <Brumi> yeah :) 19:39:08 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:12 <krinn> it's not like if the A320 cost the real prize of the A320... so it's just it cost that, you have enough or not 19:39:54 <frosch123> yes, but i expected people to get weirded out by loans in steps of 3780k forint 19:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: you probably have the wrong "target audience" in here :p 19:40:38 <krinn> the max amount you can loan is just what we seek, not the stepping 19:42:39 * andythenorth plays openttd 19:43:27 <NGC3982> :O 19:43:35 <NGC3982> I love the Japanese NewGRF sets 19:44:19 *** Extrems [borgs@modemcable204.141-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:46:33 <andythenorth> why am I using narrow gauge trains here? 19:47:20 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:53 <andythenorth> urgh, this is full FIRS 19:47:55 <andythenorth> I forgot 19:48:02 <andythenorth> how silly 19:48:06 <andythenorth> too many types of industry 19:48:18 <frosch123> didn't it win the poll? :p 19:48:22 *** Extrems [borgs@modemcable204.141-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 19:49:35 <andythenorth> voting is not awesome 19:49:59 <andythenorth> flat docks are awesome 19:51:36 <Supercheese> flat docks? 19:53:05 <andythenorth> in my imagination theyâre awesome 19:55:16 *** kais58__ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:56:37 <andythenorth> I actually think flat docks are impossible to implement 19:56:59 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:03:08 <andythenorth> :o full FIRS is really complicated 20:03:17 <andythenorth> maybe I should delete it 20:03:39 <frosch123> can you edit the caption of the poll? 20:04:01 <frosch123> "what firs to delete?" 20:04:05 <andythenorth> wise idea 20:04:25 <Alberth> just rename to "insane" :p 20:04:40 <andythenorth> done 20:04:44 <Brumi> full FIRS being so complicated is part of its charm for me :P 20:05:07 <andythenorth> should I announce that on basis of poll, Iâm deleting it? 20:05:09 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&view=viewpoll 20:05:27 <Brumi> lol 20:11:40 <frosch123> if there is a wiki article about firs, we should quote that representative poll 20:13:14 <idl0r> hm, weren't there tooltips in prev. versions? for all the menu items 20:13:31 <idl0r> i haven't played for.. like 4 years? so i don't recall 20:13:50 <frosch123> in the past tooltips showed on rmb 20:13:54 <frosch123> now they show on hoover 20:14:03 <frosch123> an old-man hoover 20:14:25 <idl0r> hm, i don't have any tooltips on hoover 20:14:36 <idl0r> weird 20:14:42 <frosch123> maybe you can disable theme ven 20:14:44 <frosch123> +e 20:14:48 <frosch123> check advanced settings 20:14:59 <andythenorth> where are oil tankers? 20:15:04 <andythenorth> this ship set is stupid 20:16:48 <idl0r> there's just an option to show a brief description as tooltip 20:17:14 <idl0r> well.. that's enough i guess 20:17:16 <idl0r> thx 20:18:43 <Alberth> maybe you used a configuration that sets the tooltip back to RMB? 20:19:03 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:25:29 <andythenorth> cdist is awesome for PAX 20:27:35 <andythenorth> wish I could use it for freight :P 20:27:55 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: manual dispatcher? How would it work o_O 20:35:22 <andythenorth> oops 20:35:27 <andythenorth> donât change newgrfs on a running game :P 20:36:50 <krinn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6M4dYGTWpg#t=67 (LOL not what the guy do, but the referrer decision is awesome) 20:38:34 <andythenorth> bored of my game 20:46:27 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:47:55 <andythenorth> bye 20:47:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:54:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BBD5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:02 <Wolf01> 'night 21:00:05 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:07:38 <krinn> night 21:07:42 *** krinn [~krinn@150.227.101.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:19:53 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:22 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:28:12 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:15 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd 21:28:35 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2a00:6960:1:1:0:24:107:1] has joined #openttd 21:48:39 <NGC3982> Poop. 22:06:20 <frosch123> night 22:06:24 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0089ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:25:31 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:39:17 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:53 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.227] has joined #openttd 22:40:14 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:31 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.110.227] has joined #openttd 22:44:55 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 22:50:31 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:50:31 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:06 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:54:07 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:37 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 23:01:44 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:27 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:27:20 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:39 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:33:40 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:19 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:48 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:36:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 23:48:17 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:48:18 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:02 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]