Log for #openttd on 15th April 2014:
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00:40:19  <supermop> can some callback change passenger decay rate when load percentage is over a certain amount?
00:41:48  <Supercheese> cargo_age_period callback, make it based on cargo_count  / cargo_capacity
00:42:21  <Supercheese> So crowded passenger cars are less comfortable and so lowered payment, eh?
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00:48:25  <supermop> i cant think of a good way to model a vehicle with moderately comfortable seats, but some standing room that may well be crush loaded
00:49:08  <supermop> so i was thinking, set capacity to be the crush load, but with a note as to how many seats in the buy menu
00:49:38  <supermop> then if the load is >seat number, switch from slow decay rate to fast decay rate
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00:50:35  <supermop> possibly with 3 levels: all seated, seated with comfortable amount of standees, and crush load
00:51:40  <supermop> but the player has little ability to limit trams loading beyond seated capacity anyway
00:52:56  <supermop> i guess one could use conditional orders
00:54:41  <supermop> i don't want it based on refits, that is player chooses in depot whether a tram has standing passengers or only seated
00:55:26  <Supercheese> Yes, I see what you mean
00:56:03  <supermop> and packed tram lines should be 'punished' but still make money
00:56:52  <supermop> but a tram car running as a light rail to the next town with 100 people hanging off the side should not
00:57:48  <supermop> it would be really cruel if loading time slowed with load too..
01:00:39  <supermop> a bit unrelated:
01:02:13  <supermop> if the connection between a 2-car tram is bigger than 1 meter, would you code it as a 3 part vehicle with a very short middle car?
01:03:35  <Eddi|zuHause> as a personal rule of thumb: i don't create vehicle parts less than 3lu (~6m)
01:04:15  <supermop> ah
01:05:01  <supermop> i'd say its about 2.5m on this tram, and 4-6 people can stand (uncomfortably) in there
01:06:14  <Supercheese> I don't think loading speed would change much with load percent
01:06:25  <Supercheese> the same people/sec can go through doors
01:06:42  <supermop> i often have to fight my way from my seat to the door though
01:06:56  <Supercheese> ah, if others aren't getting off yeah
01:07:06  <Supercheese> well in OTTD it's everybody-off-everybody-on at every stop
01:07:19  <Eddi|zuHause> but you do that _before_ arriving at the station
01:07:53  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: yes, i should
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01:08:35  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i think cargo decay depending on load is a "BAD FEATURE" as long as you can't control it
01:09:17  <supermop> but often in rushhour here you have trams getting delayed because some idiot is standing in the stairwell and there is no room to move in
01:09:52  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: i think a tram set based on one city is nothing but "Bad Features"
01:12:27  <supermop> but the trams are right here and easy to look at,
01:13:17  <supermop> and i can go ride a progression of models from the 30s through to today when i need to get ideas for stats to make up
01:14:12  <Supercheese> Eh, giving a minor penalty (0-20%) to decay rate when severely overloaded seems fine
01:14:48  <Supercheese> not sure if it's particularly "realistic"
01:14:57  <Supercheese> I don't really ride any rail vehicles... well, ever
01:15:05  <Supercheese> D:
01:15:50  <Supercheese> Last time I took public transport was.... uh... twoish years ago?
01:16:08  <supermop> well i pay ~.50 no matter how far i ride, how fast the tram gets there, or how crowded it is along the way
01:16:36  <Supercheese> so yeah, "reality" doesn't care how full the trains are
01:16:41  <supermop> but the tram operator isn't exactly who i pay with that fare anyway
01:16:43  <Supercheese> although there may be off-peak tickets or such
01:17:17  <supermop> i pay the regional government, or rather their transit authority a certain amount to load up my fare card
01:17:42  <supermop> and they have a contract with a company that has won a tender to operate the trams
01:18:12  <Supercheese> I'm glad OTTD doesn't try to simulate that, imagine bidding for routes...
01:18:27  <supermop> presumably that authority could  pay the operating company based on what ever incentives they chose
01:19:47  <supermop> lets say they agree to pay you $X per passenger mile, but they will penalize you if their constituents are complaining that their tram was too slow, too uncomfortable, or too crowded
01:20:16  <supermop> in which case the ottd model of passenger payments is not too unrealistic
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01:21:25  <Supercheese> Of course, it's up to the set designer, do what you want really
01:22:09  <Supercheese> I like quite a few so-called "bad features"
01:25:21  <supermop> me too
01:26:02  <supermop> that said,
01:27:19  <supermop> i think it would be bad to have capacity for an 80s tram change sometime in the 90s (when they are being refurbished and seats are removed to make more standing room)
01:27:58  <supermop> it would be confusing to have refits with differring capacity and decay rates?
01:29:41  <supermop> especially if they new seats were more comfy, AC was added etc: so the newer refit has even slower decay when half full, but much worse decay when full
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02:10:15  <Supercheese> Sounds tricky
02:10:42  <Supercheese> I didn't think you could limit refits based on current year though
02:10:50  <Supercheese> pretty sure all subtypes are always available
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02:15:41  <Pikka> Supercheese, what makes you think that? :)
02:15:56  <Supercheese> just my recollection
02:15:59  <Supercheese> could easily be wrong
02:16:00  <Pikka> not that all this isn't definitely BAD FEATURES. It might be "realistic" though.
02:22:34  <supermop> can i adjust the spacing between articulated parts of a tram?
02:23:50  <supermop> Pikka: is there any good way to model crush loading vehicles?
02:24:39  <Pikka> you can adjust the spacing by making vehicles shorter or longer, just like with a train
02:25:06  <supermop> ok
02:25:12  <Pikka> and I don't know
02:25:39  <supermop> i guess you could just make the capacity the same as seat number
02:26:21  <supermop> although that would give newer, larger trams near zero capacity
02:26:29  <Supercheese> indeed
02:26:35  <Pikka> I mean you can always trade off speed/capacity/loadingspeed etc. but I think once you start refitting between capacities and mucking around with cargo decay you're into TMWFTLB / BAD FEATURE territory
02:27:14  <Pikka> when it comes to capacity, I'm all for the making up numbers that make sense from a gameplay point of view, rather than trying to be "realistic"
02:27:34  <supermop> i certainly dont want to refit capacity - or change it based on year
02:28:26  <supermop> hmm i guess could just make up a number as if all trams old or new were fitted out with some number of 2+2 seating
02:28:45  <supermop> and increase the number of seats with tram size
02:29:21  <supermop> so  30m tram hold twice as many people as a 15m oone, and not go into any further detail
02:31:04  <Supercheese> In reality, the trams have pretty much the same internal space available, regardless of technology
02:31:26  <Supercheese> so if you were aiming to just crap people in church-youth-group style, then they'd be roughly equivalent
02:32:20  <Supercheese> so your idea seems reasonable
02:33:17  <supermop> it seems like there should be some trade offs between the era of high and low floor trams
02:33:41  <supermop> and speed isn't an interesting differentiating factor for RVs
02:34:06  <Supercheese> if that did affect available space, then yeah
02:34:23  <Supercheese> there's always tractive effort and, indirectly, acceleration
02:34:34  <Supercheese> which would probably be more important than max speed in congested urban areas
02:34:36  <supermop> because i don't doubt that by 2050 some company with enough money could make a 300kmh bus if they really wanted to, but it would be useless
02:34:48  <Supercheese> indeed
02:35:32  <Supercheese> err, tractive effort + power
02:35:57  <supermop> it seems like every 20th C and later tram in melbourne has a top rated speed of 80kmh
02:36:36  <supermop> and i am not interested in either slowing early trams nor making later trams faster than that
02:38:58  <supermop> brb
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04:43:58  <Supercheese> Ugh, translating the zillion advanced settings strings is a slog-and-a-half
04:49:49  <Supercheese> Ahh, totally worth it, I get to use ablative supines
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06:56:31  <NGC3982> Morning.
07:16:38  <supermop> hi
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07:25:34  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
07:25:34  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 19 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <andythenorth> bye
07:34:51  <peter1139> @seen belugas
07:34:51  <DorpsGek> peter1139: belugas was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 13 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Belugas> hello
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08:23:10  <Supercheese> valete
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09:07:14  <peter1139>
09:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause> let's just hope they don't do a debian-style "this code throws warnings and looks useless" type of strip down :p
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09:08:44  <peter1139> Weirdly, they appear to be using CVS. Maybe that's an OpenBSD thing o_O
09:11:10  <Xaroth|Work> why would anybody want to use CVS :|
09:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause> using CVS in early university almost made me stop using version control at all
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10:08:05  <peter1139> Cool, my TLS configuration is so secure nothing can connect ;(
10:08:14  <Xaroth|Work> nice
10:08:22  <Xaroth|Work> that's how it's supposed to be, right?
10:08:29  <peter1139> Yes yes
10:14:05  * peter1139 cranks it down a couple of notches so that clients can actually connect.
10:14:37  <peter1139> (Except XP)
10:15:15  <Eddi|zuHause> is that one of those things where the machines say: "the world is safest when humans are extinct"?
10:15:41  <peter1139> Nah, it's a "your OS is too old to support TLSv1.2" thing.
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10:58:27  <peter1139>
10:58:45  <NGC3982> I hate cars
10:58:50  <NGC3982> I hate, i hate. I hate.
11:00:15  <peter1139> But... do they hate you?
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11:04:42  <NGC3982> Apparently.
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11:05:00  <NGC3982> I noticed some brake fluid leakage on my v50
11:05:12  <NGC3982> It seems i need to change the full clutch all together
11:05:18  <NGC3982> 25% of the cars estimate worth.
11:17:45  <Eddi|zuHause> get a car built before 2000
11:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> or one built before 1950
11:19:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the newer a product is, the more it is built to break after a certain time
11:19:15  <peter1139> +likely
11:19:40  <peter1139> But yeah, also those electronic gimmicks...
11:19:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and this time span reduces
11:19:45  <peter1139> (With lead-free solder)
11:19:54  <NGC3982> That seems way too arbitrary.
11:19:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a modern version of inflation
11:20:04  <NGC3982> The car has not been problemativ except that, though.
11:20:08  <NGC3982> But it's just..
11:20:13  <NGC3982> I'm so frustrated right now.
11:20:23  <NGC3982> 14000SEK.
11:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> they need to sell 7% more cars every year
11:20:47  <Eddi|zuHause> but the target audience does not grow that fast
11:20:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so they need to sell more cars to the same people
11:21:15  <Eddi|zuHause> so they make the cars last shorter, so they have to buy more cars more quickly
11:21:38  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, studies into the claim that "the newer a product is, the more it is built to break after a certain time" by the Stiftung Warentest found that it cannot be held up with good justification
11:22:41  <Eddi|zuHause> a good conspiracy theory is never defeated by facts :p
11:25:24  <NGC3982> I work with car insurance, and there is a -heavy- difference in the number of machinery faults since 2003-2004.
11:25:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but there certainly are examples for that. like that lightbulbs last exactly 1000 hours, while it's perfectly possible to make ones that last 100000 hours
11:25:51  <NGC3982> So, i do not agree.
11:25:52  <peter1139> NGC3982, more or less? heh
11:25:56  <NGC3982> Way, way less.
11:26:53  <NGC3982> Something happend with the motor industry between 2003-2004. The Swedish market suffered from less than half of it's predicted underwriting on motor/machinery faults.
11:26:59  <NGC3982> But that's just Sweden.
11:27:08  <NGC3982> I have no idea on how the rest of the world works.
11:27:34  <NGC3982> (And it has been like that since).
11:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: maybe they realized that with all the electronics in there, it's not really possible to repair stuff, so they put more effort in design?
11:29:10  <NGC3982> I don't know.
11:29:15  <NGC3982> Good guess, tho.
11:29:24  * NGC3982 is still pissed of his god damned mind.
11:29:27  <NGC3982> off
11:29:28  <NGC3982> offfffffff.
11:29:31  <NGC3982> Ass hats.
11:30:04  <__ln__> gesundheit
11:30:28  <NGC3982> The problem is that the clutch cylinder costs roughly 1500SEK
11:30:47  <NGC3982> But changing it requires changing the entire clutch system, and to dismount the engine.
11:31:06  <__ln__> that's only because sweden failed to join the euro.
11:31:10  <NGC3982> :(
11:43:27  <LordAro>
11:46:02  <NGC3982> tl;dr: Our IT security claims that case is irrelevant for password security.
11:46:13  <NGC3982> And i have no idea why
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11:52:10  <peter1139> And then there are password schemes that only allow a-z and 0-9...
11:52:15  <peter1139> For some reason, banks like them.
12:00:15  <SpComb> SQL injection -proof
12:02:41  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: how does disallowing A-Z make it more SQL-proof?
12:03:27  <Eddi|zuHause> plus, you shouldn't store plain-text passwords anywa
12:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause> y
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12:16:23  <NGC3982> peter1139: And insurance companies.
12:16:26  <NGC3982> <--.
12:16:45  <NGC3982> Only a-z, 0-9 and one special digit.
12:16:51  <NGC3982> though, they do actually allow åÀö.
12:16:58  <NGC3982> Though*
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12:50:57  <planetmaker> I'm always disgusted again by sites which say like "password max. 10 characters". omg, why?!
12:52:18  <V453000> REASONS
12:52:48  <blathijs> Saves on storage costs
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12:58:28  <NGC3982> Storage of what? Bytes?
13:00:21  <planetmaker> yet I wonder how many people would use much longer passwords?
13:00:35  <planetmaker> though a pass sentence is easier to remember and more secure :)
13:02:40  <NGC3982> Yeah
13:02:44  <NGC3982> Battery.
13:02:48  <NGC3982> ..Horse?
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13:08:27  <Flygon> planetmaker: Even worse for the Australian Government's Centrelink online services
13:08:30  <Flygon> 7 characters max
13:08:37  <Flygon> My standard password is a smite bit longer than that
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13:18:12  <TinoDidriksen> Max lengths for passwords quite clearly shows that they're storing passwords, instead of hashing them.
13:20:01  <planetmaker> yeah, made me wonder, too
13:20:21  <planetmaker> But then, the website I had to register with... they sent back login + password in plaintext in an e-mail to me
13:20:25  <planetmaker> so wouldn't matter anyway
13:21:00  <planetmaker> and tbh, the world biggest publishers handle logins just as securely
13:21:15  <planetmaker> (aka Elsevier)
13:21:42  <planetmaker> maybe they changed practise meanwhile, dunno
13:25:19  <LordAro> i like how "verified by visa" asks you for particular characters of your password
13:25:30  <LordAro> also showing that they must store it in plain text
13:25:37  <planetmaker> o_O
13:25:47  <LordAro> or at least an easily reversible algorithm
13:25:56  * peter1139 sets up smokeping to monitor his ADSL.
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13:49:49  <Sacro> LordAro: or they store hashes of the combinations
13:50:40  <LordAro> possibly, but storing hashes of all 3-letter combinations of someone's password? seems unlikely
13:51:56  <planetmaker> that's not too many. 3 over n
13:52:22  <planetmaker> nor would they need to save all actually. They could just save a fixed set of combinations
13:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> well you could use a tricky hash function...
13:53:38  <planetmaker> like the identity-hash? :D
13:53:43  <Eddi|zuHause> :p
13:54:06  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean one that is homomorphic to leaving out letters
13:54:48  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is very serious maths, i doubt they go through that effort
13:55:14  <Sacro> There's no real reason to either
13:55:24  <Sacro> it's not likely a bank would get their DB compromised
13:55:39  <SpComb> ha ha
13:55:44  <planetmaker> :)
13:55:58  <theholyduck> Sacro, well any bank or anything else worth its salt
13:56:00  <Sacro> hashing only slows down the compromising of passwords
13:56:03  <theholyduck> is secured by more than just your password
13:56:04  <Sacro> theholyduck: eh?
13:56:06  <Sacro> yes
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13:56:45  <theholyduck> my bank requires my social security number, my password, and one of 3 physical identification devices
13:56:49  <theholyduck> to log in
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13:57:04  <Sacro> hah, SSN
13:57:21  <planetmaker> yeah. or the admin's ssh key ;)
13:57:23  <theholyduck> frankly, it doesnt really matter if my bank password is relativly easily remembered or cracked
13:57:44  <theholyduck> the physical component to logging in makes it secure
13:57:44  <Sacro> i have a username, password and fob
13:58:13  <Sacro> I'd hate them using SSN more tha anything else
13:58:21  <planetmaker> username, password + some kind of tan
13:58:30  <theholyduck> my bank has 3 options, you can have a fob, a scratch of card with 1 time codes printed
13:58:32  <theholyduck> or a cellphone
13:58:45  <Sacro> cellphone != good idea
13:58:52  <Sacro> especially SMS
13:58:57  <theholyduck> Sacro, which is why theres the 2 other options :P
13:59:07  <Sacro> scratch off OTP is nice
13:59:26  <theholyduck> its all about the level of convenience vs security
13:59:34  <theholyduck> the cellphone is very convenient, the fob is reasonably convenient
13:59:39  <theholyduck> and the card is very unconvenient :P
13:59:42  <Sacro> yes
13:59:47  <Sacro> but the cellphone is very insecure
13:59:56  <Sacro> fob is not too bad
14:00:01  <Sacro> card is great
14:00:22  <theholyduck> so, you get to pick your own level of usability vs security and stick with that
14:00:40  <Sacro> yup
14:00:59  <theholyduck> i have a scratch card in a socket-safe thing
14:01:12  <theholyduck> for if i cant for whatever reason use the 2 other authentications
14:01:48  <theholyduck> Sacro, as for the ssn, its how shit is done in norway
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14:10:22  <Sacro> so long as there's somethign you have & something you know
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14:47:37  <krinn> hi
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15:07:24  <krinn>
15:07:35  <krinn> rt effect with gpu
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17:10:47  <Phreeze> ahhh typo in my translation...shame on me
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17:45:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26465 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2014-04-15 17:45:37 UTC)
17:45:49  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:50  <DorpsGek> catalan - 23 changes by juanjo
17:45:51  <DorpsGek> croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne
17:45:52  <DorpsGek> english_US - 5 changes by Supercheese
17:45:53  <DorpsGek> finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
17:45:54  <DorpsGek> luxembourgish - 4 changes by Phreeze
17:45:55  <DorpsGek> swedish - 2 changes by Joel_A
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17:57:36  <andythenorth> o/
17:58:06  *** Brumi [] has joined #openttd
18:05:06  <Phreeze> p/
18:05:10  <Phreeze> \o/
18:06:42  * andythenorth wonders how many people he has to contact to re-license to WTFPL
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18:21:17  <idl0r> planetmaker: - do you want the bt or even the dump?
18:21:31  <idl0r> planetmaker: with the 1.4. git branch it works fine so far
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18:24:47  <rubidium> idl0r: is that binary compiled with libxdg-basedir, and if so... which version?
18:25:59  <idl0r> rubidium: yes, 1.1.1
18:26:08  <rubidium> then is probably your problem
18:28:31  <rubidium> the reason why the 1.4 branch might work is because stripping isn't enabled there and as such the binary layout it different, making the chances of hitting this xdg bug change
18:28:35  <idl0r> rubidium: yep, works fine without xdg
18:30:35  * rubidium wonders whether to change the configure to reject those older xdg versions
18:31:05  <rubidium> oh...
18:31:08  <rubidium> gheheh
18:31:27  <rubidium> let me guess, the 1.4 branch doesn't link to libxdg-basedir
18:33:10  <rubidium> does the configure in 1.4 say something like "checking libxdg-basedir... needs at least version 1.2.0, libxdg-basedir NOT enabled" ?
18:34:16  <idl0r> 100 points
18:34:18  <idl0r> :)
18:34:19  <rubidium> then the backport in the 1.4 branch that was made hid the bug in libxdg-basedir due to refusing to link to it
18:34:20  <idl0r> checking libxdg-basedir... needs at least version 1.2, libxdg-basedir NOT enabled
18:35:43  * rubidium would've expected Gentoo to have the newer version of libxdg-basedir though
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18:37:03  <idl0r> yeah, i just checked our bug tracker and there is indeed a version bump request for the already two years old 1.2.0 release..
18:38:01  <idl0r> i might take care of it sometime this week
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18:47:28  <Eddi|zuHause> * andythenorth wonders how many people he has to contact to re-license to WTFPL <-- i refuse.
18:48:59  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you just saved me a lot of effort :)
18:49:11  <andythenorth> you don’t like the terms?
18:49:21  <andythenorth> or you don’t like fragmentation>
18:49:22  <andythenorth> ?
18:54:57  <frosch123> anyone playing with lira?
18:56:23  <frosch123> actually, is anyone playing with something other than pound, euro or dollar?
18:56:36  <LordAro> you can assume *someone* is
18:57:20  * Pinkbeast would play in old pence if one could. :-/
18:57:29  <Taede> i used to play with guilders
18:57:36  <rubidium> just add a few lines to known-bugs.txt
18:57:48  <frosch123> guilders are fine too
18:57:53  <rubidium> ofcourse the exchange rates are never right
18:58:41  <rubidium> and why are the current exchange rates better than those a few years ago?
18:58:56  <frosch123> did you read my latest comment in that task?
18:59:16  <rubidium> no, I just read the title and though... ***sigh***
18:59:30  <frosch123> i am seriously wondering why there are no bug reports about taking loan in steps of 387300000 lira
18:59:57  <frosch123> playing with most of the currencies is borderline silly
19:00:37  <rubidium> likewise-ish with the rial
19:00:54  <rubidium> but... you'd make rial = lira
19:00:56  <frosch123> yeah, "borrow 49010000"
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19:01:54  <andythenorth> so is there an objection to flat docks, or just a lack of interest?
19:02:05  <frosch123> well, to be fair, taking/repaying loan is about the only round number in the game
19:02:07  <rubidium> which is totally wrong because 1 ITL = 18.18 (so 20) IRR
19:03:09  <rubidium> 1 GBP = ~42k IRR, so factor 50k?
19:04:57  <rubidium> lets see what the factors would become with the 'current' exchange rates and the (1, 2, 5) * 10**n (n>=0) rounding
19:05:50  <krinn> why not add random rate? so one could add bitcoin... and wow your loan just cause down from 10k to 1k ;)
19:06:13  <krinn> s/cause/goes :/
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19:13:45  <rubidium>
19:14:07  <rubidium> not really usable that way :(
19:15:30  <frosch123> rial changes by factor 10?
19:16:11  <frosch123> what do you mean with "usable"?
19:16:48  <rubidium> <- much more legible
19:17:18  <frosch123> ah, you mean a side-by-side diff
19:17:53  <rubidium> I think many will be mad because the exchange rate of EUR <-> pre-EUR is totally different, and exactly that is about the only fixed exchange rate there is
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19:19:33  <frosch123> maybe :)
19:19:53  <frosch123> let's hope wolf01 actually plays with lira
19:20:02  <andythenorth> distract them with flat docks
19:20:08  <rubidium> e.g. EUR -> FRF = 6.86, so rounded that'd be 5. In the new 'way' it'd be 10 so off by a factor 2
19:20:52  <frosch123> round it to 5?
19:21:15  <frosch123> if eur = gbp, you can also make the conversion from euro to stuff, instead of pound to stuff
19:21:38  <rubidium> but it isn't ;)
19:21:50  <rubidium> unless we declare EUR is the base currency
19:21:57  <frosch123> yeah, that's what i mean :p
19:21:58  <LordAro> noo
19:22:28  <frosch123> LordAro: are you scottish?
19:22:45  <LordAro> no
19:22:45  <rubidium> <- interesting exchange rate over time
19:23:18  * Taede lives in scotland
19:23:47  <frosch123> what happend on 18 sep 2013?
19:24:20  <Taede> countdown to independenc referendum?
19:24:27  <Taede> that happens on 18sept this year
19:24:42  <frosch123> 13 sep 2013 actually
19:27:54  <Taede> hmm, not sure there was anything, anything specific?
19:29:40  <frosch123> irr<->gbp rate changed by factor 2 from one day to another
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19:32:51  <rubidium> the wikipedia about the rial mentions completely differnet... well... dates/years
19:32:51  <Wolf01> hi hi
19:33:09  <Taede> cant find anything about that date in specific
19:33:56  <Alberth> evenink Wolf01
19:34:14  <frosch123> Wolf01: do you play ottd set to lira?
19:34:18  <krinn>
19:34:23  <Wolf01> usually yes
19:34:38  <krinn> that should be more than enough to raise it
19:34:40  <Wolf01> some times I play with pounds or dollars
19:34:49  <frosch123> is it weird that loan are taken in steps of 387300k lira?
19:35:53  <frosch123> we are pondering about rounding conversion rate to sane factors, so it would be 200000k lira
19:35:54  <Wolf01> I don't care about that, once I earn the money I need, I give back all the loan :D
19:36:14  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i often play with "RM"
19:36:24  <frosch123> your problem
19:36:32  <Brumi> I usually play with forints which has an exchange rate of 378 in the game
19:36:50  <Brumi> and I don't find it strange that the loan is not taken in 'round' steps
19:37:06  <Brumi> I don't care really
19:37:08  <frosch123> interesting
19:37:33  <frosch123> when i noticed that numbers are that strange, it really surprised me :)
19:37:41  <Brumi> :)
19:37:44  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but "rounding" the loan amount means that when you hit (unrounded) max loan you always have this "broken" loan amount leftover
19:38:07  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: stop talking off-topic nonsense
19:38:21  <Brumi> the only problematic thing is sending money to other companies
19:38:36  <Brumi> but I also got used to that as well
19:38:37  <krinn> i don't think anyone need to adjust that, that would makes sense only if the game really have real value of money
19:38:57  <frosch123> Brumi: that happens with all conversion rates :)
19:39:07  <Brumi> yeah :)
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19:39:12  <krinn> it's not like if the A320 cost the real prize of the A320... so it's just it cost that, you have enough or not
19:39:54  <frosch123> yes, but i expected people to get weirded out by loans in steps of 3780k forint
19:40:20  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: you probably have the wrong "target audience" in here :p
19:40:38  <krinn> the max amount you can loan is just what we seek, not the stepping
19:42:39  * andythenorth plays openttd
19:43:27  <NGC3982> :O
19:43:35  <NGC3982> I love the Japanese NewGRF sets
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19:46:33  <andythenorth> why am I using narrow gauge trains here?
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19:47:53  <andythenorth> urgh, this is full FIRS
19:47:55  <andythenorth> I forgot
19:48:02  <andythenorth> how silly
19:48:06  <andythenorth> too many types of industry
19:48:18  <frosch123> didn't it win the poll? :p
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19:49:35  <andythenorth> voting is not awesome
19:49:59  <andythenorth> flat docks are awesome
19:51:36  <Supercheese> flat docks?
19:53:05  <andythenorth> in my imagination they’re awesome
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19:56:37  <andythenorth> I actually think flat docks are impossible to implement
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20:03:08  <andythenorth> :o full FIRS is really complicated
20:03:17  <andythenorth> maybe I should delete it
20:03:39  <frosch123> can you edit the caption of the poll?
20:04:01  <frosch123> "what firs to delete?"
20:04:05  <andythenorth> wise idea
20:04:25  <Alberth> just rename to "insane" :p
20:04:40  <andythenorth> done
20:04:44  <Brumi> full FIRS being so complicated is part of its charm for me :P
20:05:07  <andythenorth> should I announce that on basis of poll, I’m deleting it?
20:05:09  <andythenorth>
20:05:27  <Brumi> lol
20:11:40  <frosch123> if there is a wiki article about firs, we should quote that representative poll
20:13:14  <idl0r> hm, weren't there tooltips in prev. versions? for all the menu items
20:13:31  <idl0r> i haven't played for.. like 4 years? so i don't recall
20:13:50  <frosch123> in the past tooltips showed on rmb
20:13:54  <frosch123> now they show on hoover
20:14:03  <frosch123> an old-man hoover
20:14:25  <idl0r> hm, i don't have any tooltips on hoover
20:14:36  <idl0r> weird
20:14:42  <frosch123> maybe you can disable theme ven
20:14:44  <frosch123> +e
20:14:48  <frosch123> check advanced settings
20:14:59  <andythenorth> where are oil tankers?
20:15:04  <andythenorth> this ship set is stupid
20:16:48  <idl0r> there's just an option to show a brief description as tooltip
20:17:14  <idl0r> well.. that's enough i guess
20:17:16  <idl0r> thx
20:18:43  <Alberth> maybe you used a configuration that sets the tooltip back to RMB?
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20:25:29  <andythenorth> cdist is awesome for PAX
20:27:35  <andythenorth> wish I could use it for freight :P
20:27:55  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: manual dispatcher?  How would it work o_O
20:35:22  <andythenorth> oops
20:35:27  <andythenorth> don’t change newgrfs on a running game :P
20:36:50  <krinn> (LOL not what the guy do, but the referrer decision is awesome)
20:38:34  <andythenorth> bored of my game
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20:47:55  <andythenorth> bye
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21:00:02  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:07:38  <krinn> night
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21:48:39  <NGC3982> Poop.
22:06:20  <frosch123> night
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