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00:21:40 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:26:07 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:31:30 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:31:50 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:51:05 *** fjb is now known as Guest9879 00:51:06 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:55:35 *** Guest9879 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:40 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:10:11 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 02:06:29 <kiz> does anyone know why infrastructure maintenance is not on by default? Do the costs eventually get out of hand? 02:14:53 *** abchirk_ [~abchirk@p57A085EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 02:22:04 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p57A093DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:00 *** efess [~Efess@c-50-169-48-221.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:30:55 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:34:20 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:39:52 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has quit [Quit: I'm using a Free IRC Bouncer from BNC4FREE - http://bnc4free.com/] 02:40:32 *** lugo [lugo@192.249.56.28] has joined #openttd 03:00:39 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:07:49 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@66.238-27-211.dynamic.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:18:55 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:19:28 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@108.52.130.213] has joined #openttd 03:23:27 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 03:25:50 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:53:46 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-125-173.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 03:59:55 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:18:11 *** efess [~Efess@c-50-169-48-221.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 04:26:00 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@108.52.130.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:26:23 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:40:41 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has joined #openttd 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC674F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@87.189.83.202] has joined #openttd 05:07:48 *** supermop [~daniel_er@d110-33-172-120.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:29:14 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:39:17 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 05:56:19 <planetmaker> kiz, it's a relatively new feature and the backward compatible way is to leave it off 05:56:38 <planetmaker> Though that's not an argument really to switch it on by default and only off for existing saves 05:56:44 <planetmaker> It just needs one default value 06:17:24 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@66.238-27-211.dynamic.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:17:28 *** lskynl [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:21:02 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:23:02 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has joined #openttd 06:29:46 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@89.105.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:37:19 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:48:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you could easily default to "on" and switch it off in AfterLoadGame for old savegames 06:50:49 <Flygon> Dumb question time: What're the recommended ship sets? I'm using FISH and Sailing Ships 06:51:00 <Flygon> But unsure if those're the recommended choices nowadays 06:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> there are generally no "recommendations" for NewGRFs 06:52:12 <Flygon> I know 07:02:38 <Supercheese> I hear there's a fork of FISH in the offing 07:02:58 <Flygon> Yeah, there is 07:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there is also a never-officially-released update to newships 07:05:22 <planetmaker> the fork doesn't change much (so far), though 07:05:36 <Flygon> newships, that's the one that doesn't appear in the GRF crawler 07:05:57 <planetmaker> that's the one with guaranteed unavailability ;) 07:06:15 <Flygon> Yaaaay :P 07:06:23 <Flygon> Anyway 07:06:32 <Flygon> Time to try out a 1705 game for the hell of it 07:06:58 <Flygon> Shame there isn't a town speed slower than Slow but not None 07:07:11 *** montalvo [~montalvo@88.105.85.3] has joined #openttd 07:19:31 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 07:21:23 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:21:42 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 07:37:13 <supermop> if a newgrf, tram 0.1, defines one tram with one livery, and a new version, tram 0.2 defines exactly the same tram, but with an additional livery, can a game started with tram 0.1 use tram 0.2? 07:45:49 <supermop> or, if tram 0.1 defines three liveries that are all the same (green with yellow stripe lets say), and tram 0.2 defines the three liveries with the same names but different colors, would that work? 07:48:21 <planetmaker> probably depends a bit on how that is handled by the NewGRF. It can work 07:48:39 <planetmaker> yet, in all honesty, do not worry too much about backward compatibility 07:49:40 <planetmaker> the only place really, IMHO, where backward compatibility is slightly important is for the author him- or herself when testing the NewGRF 07:50:05 <planetmaker> as player you usually never should update your NewGRFs in your games anyway. And you can't without disabling several safety belts 07:51:34 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:55:25 <supermop> ok 07:56:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6ABC5.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:56:52 <planetmaker> though generally, changing livery is not a game breaker, supermop. Worst which can happen - if it really only is livery - is that the vehicles in existing games look different 07:57:01 <planetmaker> if it changes stats along with livery, that's a different thing 08:00:29 <supermop> ok 08:01:35 <supermop> if i wanted to suggest an additional vehicle for ogfx+ trains, and drew a sprite for it, how likely would it be that it would be included by whoever maintains that set 08:01:54 <supermop> i don't recall if that is you planetmaker or someone else 08:04:53 <supermop> just a later diesel or so for temperate, maybe a MU for arctic... 08:08:27 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 08:08:28 <planetmaker> I haven't done much with that trainset for ages tbh. 08:09:02 <planetmaker> I guess vehicles which would well complement the default vehicles, they could well be included 08:09:16 <planetmaker> They mostly should extend the time frame of the set, though 08:09:30 <planetmaker> as the default time is quite well covered 09:51:24 *** fjb is now known as Guest9913 09:51:25 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:58:39 *** Guest9913 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:00:38 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:11:02 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 10:17:52 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 10:17:56 <Samu> good day 10:21:41 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 10:29:39 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 10:29:58 <Samu> music question: which of these formats would you be able to pack in openmsx if there was an alternative to MID? MP3, OGG, M4A, FLAC, APE, WMA 10:30:17 <Samu> question is related about licenses or cross-platform 10:33:21 <peter1139> MOD 10:34:58 *** montalvo [~montalvo@88.105.85.3] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâŠ] 10:35:37 <Samu> i was trying to find a mid to mod converter 10:36:09 <Samu> not gonna be an easy converting task, it needs the mid soundfonts 10:37:28 <Samu> so none of those formats? 10:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't opus the new hype? 10:51:46 <Samu> what's that? never heard of that before 10:51:57 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know much about it either, allegedly it's an improvement over vorbis 10:54:04 <Samu> i foudn it 10:54:04 <Samu> http://www.opus-codec.org/ 10:55:02 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.220.185] has joined #openttd 10:56:39 <Samu> BSD license 10:56:43 <Samu> is that good or bad? 10:58:59 <TinoDidriksen> BSD is one of the most permissive license. 11:00:53 <peter1139> OPUS is primarly designed as a real-time codec for streaming. 11:04:51 <Samu> some games have audio libraries installed on their directory, is opus something similar? you'd have full control of the audio coming out of the game? 11:13:34 <peter1139> No, it's 'just' a codec. 11:14:17 <peter1139> I don't ever see anything other than Midi being supported, anyway. 11:16:25 <Samu> mid needs to be better supported 11:17:00 <Samu> don't you agree? the volume slider for midi affects the audio volume too 11:19:40 <Samu> if the audio was under control by the game instead, that wouldn't be an issue 11:20:39 <Samu> I was told audio playback is external to the game, not sure if it's related 11:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: depends on which driver is used. it's probably a wrong function being called/argument being passed 11:24:31 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 11:26:46 <Samu> can you say, hey play this mid at this volume at the start of each mid? 11:26:51 <Samu> from openttd? 11:27:42 <Samu> instead of being able to change volume during mid playback, it would start playback with the altered volume 11:28:02 <Samu> shouldn't touch the sound effects volume that way, me thinks 11:30:52 <Samu> not sure why it's a driver issue 11:35:34 <Samu> just wondering: if openttd had an internal "audio mixer" and a way to convert mid to an audio stream that could be handled by that audio mixer, then it could manage to adjust volumes correctly, differentiating it from sound and music 11:36:09 <Samu> then the audio would go out to the driver as one stream 11:37:12 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 11:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: "driver" is exactly the thing that says "play this at this volume". what else would it be? 11:51:06 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:51:20 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 11:52:41 <peter1139> "a way to convert mid to an audio stream" ... feel free to come up with a lightweight good sounding MIDI synth. 11:53:56 <Samu> that's something I'm trying to find 11:54:12 <Flygon> Hint: It's not Roland 11:57:01 <Samu> damn midis... they're hard to work with 11:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: i think you have a totally wrong opinion on how this works at all 11:58:29 <Samu> yeah, I know, i'm not a programmer, but some one with ideas 11:59:15 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:59:27 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@108.52.130.213] has joined #openttd 11:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> ideas are worthless if they don't fit the reality 11:59:56 <supermop> not many good TA22s to be had in victoria 12:00:21 <Samu> reality is, the driver sucks, from what I can gather 12:00:48 <peter1139> There's multiple drivers. 12:01:18 <Samu> midis also play different on different OS'es 12:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> music sheets also play different on different orchestras 12:03:06 <Eddi|zuHause> midis are exactly that, a music sheet. "play this note with this instrument". how the instrument actually sounds depends on who is playing the instrument 12:03:42 <Samu> my thinking logic was mixing music with sound effect in OpenTTD as "only one stream before it's sent out to the OS/driver". This last part here is what I'm not sure about 12:04:03 <Samu> I don't know if that's what OpenTTD already do 12:04:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and your logic is ill-founded because there are no sounds for music in openttd at all 12:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> or in any midi file, for that matter 12:04:49 <Samu> i know midis aren't sounds 12:04:57 <Samu> they have to be played 12:05:23 <peter1139> And OpenTTD passes that playing off to the OS. 12:05:47 <Samu> I see, that's where it loses control of the outcome 12:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it does not "lose control" 12:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it just might be misusing the control it has 12:08:01 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:08:14 <peter1139> Certainly adjusting music volume doesn't affect sound volume for me. 12:08:42 <Samu> maybe it's a windows issue 12:08:43 <Samu> brb 12:09:51 <Samu> ok, max sound effects volume and max music volume. If I turn down sound effect volume, the music is still playing at the correct volume 12:10:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (why am i even saying anything) 12:10:10 <peter1139> Eddi|zuHause, bored? :D 12:10:19 <Samu> just checking 12:10:34 <Samu> it's the midi volume, it's acting as the global volume meter 12:12:18 <Samu> I'm sorry to ask, my last question I promise, does it also happen in other OS'es? 12:14:28 <peter1139> No idea, music volume is not implemented on Linux. 12:22:47 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:24:18 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-2-218.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 12:27:59 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 12:29:35 <Samu> http://osdl.sourceforge.net/main/documentation/rendering/SDL-audio.html#hardwareissues 12:31:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that has nothing to do with whatever... 12:39:39 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 12:44:11 *** slaca [~slaca@178-164-130-147.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 12:48:51 *** supermop [~daniel_er@d110-33-172-120.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: supermop] 13:00:58 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:c2:8ff:fec1:936b] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:00:59 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@132.229.223.2] has joined #openttd 13:05:50 <Samu> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/fluidsynth/ 13:09:00 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:c2:8ff:fec1:936b] has joined #openttd 13:09:26 *** Sacro [~ben@000127ee.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:09:46 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 13:12:07 <peter1139> Samu, then, find a soundfont that is reasonable quality, isn't massive, and has a GPL-compatible license. 13:12:49 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:14:51 <Samu> they suggest two http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/fluidsynth/wiki/SoundFont 13:16:36 <Samu> SoundBlaster AWE 32 is where the Original TTD midis sounded best 13:17:12 <peter1139> Neither of those qualify as "not massive" 13:26:11 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:30:55 <Flygon> Whelp 13:31:13 <Flygon> I should feel proud for hybridizing a bay and through platform two-track railway line in the width of 4 tiles 13:31:18 <Flygon> While having 6 platforms 13:39:45 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@108.52.130.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:40:02 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:34 <Samu> the smallest I could find 13:47:06 <Samu> smallest soundfont - 3,95 MB (4.146.440 bytes) 13:47:12 <Samu> from synthfont itself 13:48:12 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:54:52 <Samu> peter1139: it can be compressed to - 2,78 MB (2.917.288 bytes) 14:04:23 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:07:29 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:08:13 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 14:18:43 <Xaroth|Work> @calc (10**14)/(1024**4) 14:18:43 <DorpsGek> Xaroth|Work: 90.9494701773 14:20:10 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:21:05 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 14:25:05 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:21 <Samu> The windows own soundfont file is 3,28 MB (3.440.660 bytes), but in another format, in .DLS 14:45:50 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 15:07:56 <Samu> I think i got what's needed. fluidsynth (1.1 MB) plus a soundfont (the one I found is 3.95 MB) This font is so far playing fine with the midis provided by openmsx 15:08:12 <Samu> 5 MB - is that small enough of a compromise? 15:08:58 <Xaroth|Work> for a single song? 15:09:40 <Samu> no, for the ability to have openttd to play midis independently of external libraries or soemthing like that 15:09:51 <Samu> it's for all midis 15:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that would still double the size of openttd 15:13:51 <Samu> the other option is to use the current OS's font, but that is pretty much how it is now 15:14:56 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 15:15:10 <planetmaker> not sure... maybe sound fonts could something optional 15:18:30 <peter1139> Bah, I had to move up :( 15:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "public service mikado: who moves first, loses"? 15:23:16 <peter1139> So now I have an 8 between a 256 and a 1024... 15:23:19 <peter1139> Le sigh :p 15:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that's medium difficulty 15:31:48 <Samu> gotta be honest, they sound better with this font, and it doesnt' cut off the sound at the end of the songs like it currently does 15:31:57 <Samu> the midis 15:32:48 <Samu> the instruments are very much the same, very minor differences, at least to the one provided by windows 15:33:22 <Samu> but reverbs, echo and some other effects are much better 15:34:04 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:35:28 *** luaduck_zzz [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:35:45 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 15:39:54 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:41:30 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:41:33 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:44:55 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: then write a driver in src/music/ 15:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: or load the sounfont into windows' midi emulator 15:51:11 <Samu> oh man I wish I could help more than this 16:03:07 <Samu> http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-pictures/how-to-change-windows-7s-soundfont-from-gs/fc7f6e06-a8b2-4cfc-8bbc-fd90a2f49d94 16:05:42 <Samu> there is no way to change the synth on windows 7, or if it is possible, it's not going to be easy 16:07:11 <Samu> microsoft answer in a related question was to use a 3rd party synthesizer 16:08:20 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@132.229.223.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:19:03 <peter1139> I'm glad you've spent the whole day mulling this over... 16:20:02 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.112.160.213] has joined #openttd 16:20:33 <V453000> :) 16:27:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19DE7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:29:59 <planetmaker> nice. The Germany ministry for families and gender equality has been found guilty to violate gender equality regulations when it comes to hiring new employees :D 16:35:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the weirdest part of movements like this is the individual groups fighting each other because they're not fighting hard enough 16:41:43 *** bdavenport [~davenport@2001:470:8:303:9d5:81f1:a49b:e9b6] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:45:54 *** bdavenport [~davenport@2001:470:8:303:70b4:3aa7:6847:35b] has joined #openttd 16:46:27 <Samu> are you guys serious about the midi issue or not? I'm listening to all midis to see if there's an issue with this font, so far everything's good 16:49:30 <peter1139> We seriously don't care. 16:50:21 <peter1139> It works as well as it needs to, there's no reason to expend time on it, seeing as most people's first action is to turn it all off anyway. 16:51:14 <planetmaker> might be a vicious circle, though :) 16:57:05 *** bdavenport [~davenport@2001:470:8:303:70b4:3aa7:6847:35b] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 17:02:28 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.] 17:03:47 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 17:04:24 <Samu> Finished listening, all openmsx midis play fine, minor differences here and there, but they're not distortions 17:04:36 <Samu> but ok, sorry 17:04:53 <Samu> got too much enthused into this 17:14:29 *** bdavenport [~davenport@2001:470:8:303:70b4:3aa7:6847:35b] has joined #openttd 17:19:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: it's certainly not a bad thing to get enthusiastic over something, but as long as you don't get someone with programming knowledge equally enthusiastic, it's basically wasted energy 17:21:50 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: i still think your volume issue is a matter of finding the right line to change 17:36:54 <peter1139> I think it's probably a Windows driver issue. 17:37:56 <peter1139> midiOutSetVolume((HMIDIOUT)_midi.devid, ...) 17:38:12 <peter1139> Pretty umabiguous that it's dealing with only a MIDI device there. 17:40:20 <peter1139> +m 17:40:57 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has joined #openttd 17:45:39 <Samu> is this of help? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/dd798480(v=vs.100) 17:46:04 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26571 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2014-05-08 17:45:52 UTC) 17:46:05 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:46:07 <DorpsGek> croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne 17:46:07 <DorpsGek> finnish - 1 changes by jpx_ 17:46:08 <DorpsGek> hungarian - 1 changes by Brumi 17:46:09 <DorpsGek> italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv 17:46:10 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 4 changes by Stabilitronas 17:46:11 <DorpsGek> slovak - 2 changes by Milsa 17:46:42 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-0-12-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:48:41 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1139: my uneducated guess is that it's muxed in the wrong place 17:49:12 <peter1139> It's mixed by the OS/drivers and we have no control over it. 17:49:18 <peter1139> If they get it wrong, that's not our fault. 17:49:37 <peter1139> I don't see many bug reports from everyone having this problem. 17:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the midi emulator is "implementing" volume change by passing it on to the next higher volume filter 17:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and at that point it's already muxed the audio streams 17:51:54 <peter1139> What does that have to do with us? 17:54:41 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:54:45 <Wolf01> hi hi 17:54:47 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 17:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you should know what the programs do that you're interfacing with :p 17:56:23 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:31 <Alberth> hi hi 17:58:59 *** Dan9550 [~dan9550@89.105.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:17 <peter1139> And we should know how any particular combination of hardware, OS, and drivers behave oddly? 18:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 18:06:06 <peter1139> Cool 18:10:01 <Samu> most audio hardware out there is realtek nowadays 18:13:51 <Samu> if the problem is the driver, i can try emailing realtek, but i have no idea how to expose the problem to them 18:18:51 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d011c5f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:18:58 <Alberth> hai 18:20:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:20:52 <andythenorth> lo bob 18:23:01 <George> [22:00:51] Alberth has no thoughts [22:01:55] planetmaker had none so far either - and what to do? Who can make a decision? 18:26:51 <andythenorth> lskynl: so are you going to update the docs for Redfish? o_O http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/redfish/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html 18:36:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19DE7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:41 <Samu> Give me a bit of guidance, how to approach realtek about the changing volume issue. mailto:pctech@realtek.com 18:39:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: i doubt the issue is in their code 18:39:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: it's more likely in windows' midi emulator 18:41:23 <Samu> i've been searching the microsoft forums, they removed the midi device selection from the sound control pannel, but it's still possible to change the device 18:41:35 <Samu> hacking into the registry 18:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> what's that meant to solve? 18:42:46 <Samu> to see if there was a way to change volume for midi only, and not make it act like it's a global volume 18:43:41 <Samu> dont know the technical terms, I know there's commands you send to the device driver that will then carry on 18:43:47 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:44:02 <Samu> the emulator should be the device 18:45:43 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 18:45:58 <Samu> i also wonder if there's still a midi volume controler after all 18:50:10 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@80.112.160.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:59:16 <Samu> I give up 19:02:09 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:02 *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:46 <andythenorth> I had three stupid GS ideas. Iâve forgotten them :( 19:32:22 <andythenorth> one was a variation on âWin Nowâ button 19:32:32 <andythenorth> I think I was going to make it random whether you won or lost :P 19:33:12 <andythenorth> also I thought of a way for towns to really screw with you, but donât remember how :P 19:34:34 <Samu> "paint"-shop image: http://i.imgur.com/duTYTWE.png 19:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> next episode of "useless statistics that nobody ever asked for"? 19:36:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that might be a good GS actually 19:36:46 <andythenorth> âachieve arbitrary goals measured by pointless statistics' 19:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i thought "randomly change volume" 19:37:07 <andythenorth> also good 19:37:14 * andythenorth considers a new version of NoCarGoal 19:37:21 <andythenorth> but you donât get told the target, you have to guess 19:37:44 <andythenorth> and the feedback is âcold, warm, warmerâ etc 19:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i've played a card game called "shadow hunter" where you're good or evil, and you don't know which other person is on your side 19:39:32 <andythenorth> ha 19:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and to mix it up there are neutral people who only fight for themselves 19:42:36 * andythenorth considers Easter Egg GS 19:42:41 <andythenorth> you get told there are 10 eggs 19:42:49 <andythenorth> eggs are unlocked by connecting stuff 19:43:02 <andythenorth> probably by providing service to a town or industry 19:43:15 <andythenorth> Easter Egg Hunt * 19:43:31 <andythenorth> my kids are obsessed with easter egg hunts, hours of free entertainment 19:44:25 <pthagnar> Frimpthatton council announces a subsidy for mystery service from Undisclosed Location to Who Knows Where? 19:47:15 <planetmaker> sounds fun actually 19:47:23 <planetmaker> not hero quest. But transport quest 19:47:33 <planetmaker> treasure hunt à la OpenTTD :) 19:47:47 <planetmaker> find the secret subsidy and win a 100x bonus for 3 years on the route 19:52:03 <andythenorth> hmm 19:52:06 * andythenorth starts IE7 19:52:12 <andythenorth> letâs see how sad Iâm going to be 19:53:11 <andythenorth> quite sad 19:53:39 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:56:04 <planetmaker> why would you start that ancient one? 20:00:59 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:38 <Alberth> to feel sad? 20:03:33 <andythenorth> because browser usage stats require me to support it :| 20:10:08 <andythenorth> 10% :| 20:10:58 <planetmaker> some fossils die hard. But worth to care so much? 20:13:13 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 20:14:07 <andythenorth> no choice :P 20:14:11 <andythenorth> contractual 20:14:49 <planetmaker> bah, sucks 20:15:12 <Samu> what are you doing with IE7? 20:15:30 <andythenorth> mostly I am watching how broken things are 20:15:41 <planetmaker> so it's not payment but pain and suffering money 20:15:47 <andythenorth> then filing them under âlevel 2 support: donât fix minor visual defectsâ 20:15:50 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yes 20:15:59 <Samu> but why 7 if there's 11 20:16:03 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-0-12-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:16:05 <andythenorth> because customers 20:16:26 <Samu> and what is it that youre doing, a homepage? 20:16:31 <andythenorth> not exactly 20:17:18 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 20:22:30 *** SkeedR [~SkeedR@cpc4-wolv15-2-0-cust60.wolv.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:23:06 *** SkeedR is now known as Guest9965 20:25:44 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:25:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 20:27:01 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 20:27:29 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:27:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C576.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:28:33 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:31:17 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:32:06 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 20:34:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6ABC5.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "Band collects 20000 dollar from spotify for silent album 'sleepify'" 20:45:52 *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd 20:46:04 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:57:27 <peter1139> Old 21:02:54 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:02:59 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:04:29 <planetmaker> good night 21:04:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:06:20 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:14:25 *** slaca [~slaca@178-164-130-147.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Quit: Távozom] 21:14:44 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 21:23:23 *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:25:34 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:36:33 *** lskynl [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 21:40:50 *** jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd 21:41:48 *** subzero [~lol@c-67-180-9-5.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:41:51 *** lolo [~pop@c-67-180-9-5.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:42:26 *** subzero [~lol@c-67-180-9-5.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host triggered network flood protection. please mail support@oftc.net if you feel this is in error, quoting this message. (2014-05-08 21:41:41)] 21:42:26 *** lolo [~pop@c-67-180-9-5.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [autokilled: This host triggered network flood protection. please mail support@oftc.net if you feel this is in error, quoting this message. (2014-05-08 21:42:25)] 21:45:34 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:30 <Samu> statistics! http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_explorer.asp 21:46:42 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 21:48:22 <Xaroth|Work> Samu: that's hardly representative.. as it's just that site's stats. 21:48:53 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:49:01 <Xaroth|Work> now if that was google's stats, then it'd hold some ground, but w3schools... 21:50:06 <Samu> some other: http://gs.statcounter.com/ 21:50:24 *** Guest9965 [~SkeedR@cpc4-wolv15-2-0-cust60.wolv.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:37 <Samu> http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php 21:55:50 <Samu> i dont think ie 7 is used all that much http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=2&qpcustomd=0 21:57:22 <Xaroth|Work> Samu: I'm pretty sure most web developers agree that IE7 (and most of IE, for that matter) can die a slow, fiery death.. but if your contract tells you that it needs to support it, then support it you will 21:58:42 <Samu> when i had windows xp, and i had it for quite a long time 21:58:48 <Samu> the last supported IE browser is 8 21:59:21 <Xaroth|Work> You'd be amazed how many systems still run XP 21:59:40 <Samu> they should be using IE 8 at least 22:00:01 <Samu> microsoft forces that update 22:00:22 *** montalvo [~montalvo@88-105-85-3.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 22:00:28 <frosch123> nah, they are probably behind a firewall 22:00:36 <frosch123> and the admins block all dubious websites 22:00:58 <frosch123> including some of your own company 22:02:46 <frosch123> (like when subsidy complains to the ceo that they do not want to link to the website of another subsidy, because it is constantly infested with malware, and they do not want to send their customers there) 22:03:09 <Xaroth|Work> heh 22:04:34 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:04:54 <frosch123> "if you return home from a business trip to that subsidy, and hand over your notebook immediately for cleaning, we will kill you - very slowly" 22:05:05 <frosch123> +do not 22:11:30 <Xaroth|Work> gheh 22:21:03 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.220.185] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC: Nothing compares to it!  [www.adiirc.com]] 22:22:38 <glx> most xp users were still on IE6 I think 22:24:02 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 22:24:56 <glx> (and the black transparent background for png) 22:25:51 <frosch123> night 22:25:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d011c5f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:33:14 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:08 <Samu> just throwing a random idea, have the full load indicator as a progress bar in the vehicle window title 22:43:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C576.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:19 <Samu> let me paint-shop the idea to better describe what I mean 22:53:08 <Samu> here's how it looks like https://rupavq.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y2peHrWpSn9qJT4BIeAeHGDfQGsG6E9KaBmZ_6sU1SaZnWAwnbCu72lwmmifETGa-htLr-968uov4US0OtJzeFp1tA7D-4SkR-0qhJG2VSYtRI/vehicle%20window%20title%20load%20progress%20pain-shop%27ed.png?psid=1 23:19:21 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:16 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-2-218.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:01 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.22.31.109.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 23:54:27 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: you'll find it way easier to implement "Loading (x%)" as the status line