Log for #openttd on 2nd July 2014:
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13:58:06  <MTsPony> anyone ever tried autopilot on windows?
13:58:29  <Eddi|zuHause> don't use autopilot anymore...
13:58:35  <MTsPony> ah..
13:59:50  <MTsPony> im not sure if its windows related tho as it seems to work fine except it doest wanna output chat from ingame to irc
14:00:21  <MTsPony> tho strangely it does output the map info and that server started,
14:15:48  <planetmaker> autopilot was never known to work nicely on windows. And it has been replaced by soap
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14:25:00  <MTsPony> soap uh? is that under development?
14:29:47  <planetmaker> it's being maintained, yes
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14:30:05  <planetmaker> contrary to autopilot. Which is dead for years
14:30:11  <MTsPony> true
14:30:22  <MTsPony> i suppose it actually does work on windows?
14:30:31  <MTsPony> python sounds like it woukd work
14:30:47  <planetmaker> it does sound like. Not sure anyone ever tested it on windows
14:31:15  <MTsPony> ill try it :)
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14:41:14  <Xaroth|Work> would be fun to see
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15:37:45  <Alberth> hi hi
15:46:59  * LordAro also hi's
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16:06:48  <LSky`> quick question
16:07:00  <LSky`> when using rcon, how do you change a config value?
16:07:00  <Alberth> too late :)
16:07:15  <LSky`> like: rcon password "set.command value"?
16:07:21  <LSky`> or just set
16:07:33  <LSky`> or, like vehicle. if its in the vehicle part of the config
16:07:40  <Alberth> try "help" ?
16:08:27  <LSky`> it gives me unknown command every time
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16:10:18  <LSky`> tried setting. as wel
16:10:22  <LSky`> doesnt help either
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16:12:25  <LSky`> it is listed in the listsettings
16:14:07  <Alberth> you tried a simpler command, like   rcon passwd "help"    or rcon passwd "help set"  or so?
16:14:51  <Alberth> then you may be able to figure out what is wrong
16:14:56  <LSky`> i figured it out, its: rcon password "set vehicle.thecommandgoeshere value"
16:17:48  <Alberth> kk
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16:45:55  <V453000> Alberth: is somewhere mars industry code in 1 file?
16:46:07  <V453000> the .pnml with links to other pnml files is confusing for me :d
16:46:16  <V453000> I believe you sent me some industry code in 1 file some time ago
16:46:31  <V453000> could I get the link again please? :)
16:47:48  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the build server hosts the combined nml
16:48:34  <V453000> cant seem to see that
16:51:21  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the project name?
16:52:03  <Alberth>
16:52:06  <Alberth> ?
16:52:37  <Alberth> or do you want the resulting nml file?
16:52:46  <Alberth> V453000: ^
16:53:23  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't even have a link to the build server
16:54:36  <Alberth>  <-- V453000
16:56:59  <Alberth> cargotable got moved to outside the industries project somewhat recently
16:57:13  <Alberth> several sub-projects needed it :)
16:57:58  <Alberth> perhaps that's what confuses you?
17:01:34  <V453000> I guess that is what I meant (: thanks
17:05:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: so, where exactly would one find the builds of this?
17:06:50  <Alberth> I'd guess in the overall project
17:07:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i only found a readme.txt
17:08:12  <Alberth>  ?
17:08:19  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:09:00  <V453000> every time I am searching for the list of cargo labels, I cant find it
17:09:09  <V453000> I can extract it from NUTS which is what I will do, but still :d
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17:10:28  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: do you have an explanation for this?
17:11:49  <Alberth> < V453000 cargotable has been moved to the graphics project
17:12:04  <Alberth> so it's available for all sub-projects
17:12:04  <V453000> Alberth: I mean the one on tt-wiki
17:12:12  <V453000> tehre was a table of all cargoes defined by all grfs
17:12:28  <Alberth> oh, that one :)
17:14:21  <Alberth>  ?
17:14:30  <V453000> exactly
17:14:31  <V453000> thanks :)
17:14:46  <V453000> was wondering if anybody gave some label to uranium yet
17:15:43  <Alberth> don't think anyone programmed an industry for uranium yet
17:15:54  <V453000> seems so indeed
17:17:03  <Alberth> you should add a realistic mode, where the wagon carrying uranium goes 5km/h :p
17:17:36  <V453000> is that how uranium is transported?
17:17:42  <Xaroth|Work> or, when it heads into a corner too fast, explodes and leaves radioactive waste
17:18:04  <V453000> that works for me Xaroth|Work
17:18:07  <Alberth> lots of demonstrants at the tracks :p
17:18:16  <V453000> :DD
17:19:21  <Alberth> mostly near a power plant though
17:21:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it also should have 1 million running costs per tile :p
17:21:48  <frosch123> i think there was a label for uranium
17:21:58  <frosch123> but it was removed because noone ever used it
17:22:12  <V453000> well I got URAN
17:22:13  <frosch123> it was only added by some random guy who then discovered that its boring
17:22:16  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: fair enough :)
17:22:20  <V453000> was thinking about NUKE
17:22:52  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: don't be too witty with this
17:22:53  <Xaroth|Work> that could actually be a fun mechanic
17:22:56  <Alberth> it's not that dangerous in raw form :p
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17:23:11  <Xaroth|Work> forcing people to get rid of waste
17:23:14  <frosch123> <- the is DURA for depleted uran and URAN for before
17:23:22  <Xaroth|Work> by not making the plant accept more until waste is disposed of
17:23:29  <Xaroth|Work> but the waste carriages are insanely expensive to run :P
17:23:36  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: what? :D how does anybody need to care how do I name my cargoes?
17:23:46  <frosch123> there is also UORE and RCKT and OXYG
17:23:51  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: every vehicle set author
17:23:57  <frosch123> and.. wtf? MATE "Materials"? what's that?
17:24:05  <Xaroth|Work> Eddi|zuHause: I'm long glad there's not an ANUS.
17:24:11  <frosch123> isn't every cargo a material?
17:24:15  <Xaroth|Work> or TWAT. or.. CU.. i'll stop now...
17:24:18  <Alberth> frosch123: like GOOD?  :)
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17:24:25  <frosch123> or did someone plan to add anti-material as well?
17:24:33  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: sure, they can adapt
17:24:57  <frosch123> someone did good work deleting all that non-sense :)
17:25:24  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it must be very clear what is meant from the label alone, not everyone will have a "long description" next to every label
17:26:01  <V453000> I believe I was as gentle as possible
17:26:26  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think most of the deleted ones are from the "OTTD+500" project
17:26:56  <frosch123> V453000: why not TOUR instead of YETI?
17:27:03  <V453000> why yes
17:27:05  <frosch123> would work with certain bus sets :p
17:27:18  <V453000> giant ass yeti cant fit in a bus.
17:27:41  <romazoon> hi, can someone tell me how many sprite should i draw to have an animation with the water cycle blue ? (i posted on forum about that, but i just want to get this sorted fast so i can draw further)
17:27:42  <frosch123> an MNSP instead of RIDE?
17:27:55  <V453000> MNSP is usually boxes
17:27:56  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: most vehicle sets will catch "YETI" from the "passengers" cargo class
17:27:56  <Alberth> FRUT instead of FRVG ?
17:28:24  <V453000> why would vehicle sets catch YETI from passengers if I say it is flatbed-ish cargo?
17:28:28  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: VEHI?
17:28:31  <V453000> Alberth: FRVG is from FIRS
17:28:50  <V453000> VEHI is considerable yes
17:28:56  <V453000> yet lame
17:28:57  <frosch123> ok, if YETI do not fit busses, the need a separate label :)
17:29:01  <juzza1> romazoon: 1, use the proper action colors
17:29:20  <V453000> ok VEHI works
17:29:33  <Eddi|zuHause> LVST for YETI? :)
17:29:43  <V453000> lol no :)
17:29:52  <V453000> I think this is fine, with VEHI
17:30:04  <Alberth> V453000: the comment "Deprecated FIRS cargo. Replaced by FRUT for FIRS > v1.3.0 " claims not, and FRUT is probably the standard fruit cargo, so supported by many vehicle sets
17:30:14  <romazoon> thanks juzza1, do i need to use them in the exact order from the color table ? and do i need to use all the color or just a few of them works too ?
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17:30:30  <V453000> Alberth: but I really want to have a fruit AND vegetable farm :|
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17:31:09  <Alberth> ok :)
17:31:11  <V453000> but well why not
17:31:31  <Alberth> your name for the cargo and the label are not that tight connected afaik
17:31:35  <V453000> NUTS could just get a condition "if yeti loaded, change FRUT sprites to "fruit and vegetables sprites"
17:31:46  <V453000> sure
17:31:54  <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> [17:10:28] planetmaker: do you have an explanation for this? <-- I couldn't establish by means of backlog what you refer(ed) to with "this"
17:32:16  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: where the builds of the opengfx-mars-industries are
17:32:22  <V453000> so the only custom cargoes seem to be URAN and YETI atm
17:32:34  <planetmaker> <-- there? Like all mars project builds
17:33:09  <V453000> I think CORE would work best for URAN
17:33:25  <planetmaker> CORE? Nah. U238 :)
17:33:28  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: then why does the "build server" link doesn't work, and why is this not found on jenkins?
17:33:33  <V453000> :DDDDD
17:33:36  <V453000> awesome pm
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17:34:16  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, which link in jenkins?
17:34:35  <planetmaker> which link doesn't work?
17:35:06  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:35:37  <planetmaker> there is no build job for that repo defined
17:35:41  <planetmaker> it's a sub-repo
17:35:48  <planetmaker> there's only one build job for opengfx-mars
17:36:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and that one only contains the readme.txt
17:36:02  <V453000> if I use YETI which defines CORE in Temperate climate with the original train set, it wont work anyway, because temperate simply doesnt have that wagon, right?
17:36:06  * Alberth added the link to the main project
17:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:36:30  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the "artefacts" as on the jenkins page(s) are not necessarily in relation to what's published on bundles
17:36:49  <Alberth> V453000: wouldn't it fall back to cargo classes?
17:37:07  <V453000> original vehicles dont have cargo classes do they
17:37:11  <planetmaker> they always need separate and manual definition. So the canonical place to look for the build results is bundles server
17:37:30  <planetmaker> I possibly should remove all artefacts from jenkins projects. It's just duplication
17:37:40  <Alberth> oh, really original vehicles. Indeed, I guess that would fail, just like FIRS and ECS
17:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i find the bundles server very hard to find from the devzone project pages
17:37:52  <V453000> aye
17:38:14  <planetmaker> <-- It lists that quite prominently in the description
17:38:17  <V453000> hm, could use GEAR for machinery XD
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17:38:25  <Wolf01> hi hi
17:38:32  <Alberth> planetmaker: I added that a minute ago :)
17:38:38  <planetmaker> :D k
17:38:47  <Alberth> hi hi Wolf01
17:39:06  <Alberth> like Eddi, I always fail to find any build :)
17:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: even then, it has to be manually added there
17:39:33  <planetmaker> yes, it has
17:39:52  <planetmaker> do you want to write me a plug-in for either redmine or jenkins which handles it more automatically?
17:40:19  <Eddi|zuHause> it's still missing from
17:40:19  <planetmaker> I agree, the linkage to bundles server is not very good
17:40:31  <planetmaker> as it mostly has to be added manually
17:40:44  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: as well as all other sub projects
17:41:01  <planetmaker> generally$PROJECTNAME/push/LATEST works
17:41:15  <planetmaker> it does indeed not work for a subproject thingy like opengfx-mars
17:41:42  <planetmaker> which could be solved by symlinks on the filesystem of bundles server
17:42:10  <Alberth> given the few sub-projects, it may be tmwftlb
17:42:26  <Alberth> especially if one has to add it manually to the frontpage anyway
17:42:35  <planetmaker> alternatively we discontinue usage of bundles server and use only jenkins artefacts. But that works badly with projects like eints or firs which generate nice documentations
17:43:25  <Alberth> jenkins bug?
17:43:33  <Alberth> or just a wrong configuration?
17:43:49  <planetmaker> not exactly bug. It's not meant to be a file browser and web server
17:44:23  <planetmaker> adding all things which we want to artefacts is a bit work, but can be done without much problem really
17:44:50  <Alberth> what about the option to add the link somewhere else, like on the collected project page, or have a download link page for all projects?
17:45:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26671 trunk/src/lang/afrikaans.txt (2014-07-02 17:45:15 UTC)
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23  <Alberth> (1 page listing the project and the download page)
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 4 changes by telanus
17:45:28  <planetmaker> <-- has the links to bundles server
17:45:57  <planetmaker> probably not prominently enough
17:46:06  <Alberth> indeed :)
17:46:16  <Alberth> just like the "projects" link :)
17:46:22  <Eddi|zuHause> it can't be that hard to just add a tab "download server" which has a link to bundles.blah/project-name by default
17:46:47  <planetmaker> what do you mean with 'download server'?
17:47:06  <Eddi|zuHause> random words that go in the tab name
17:47:19  <V453000> wood = piece goods?
17:47:38  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: wood is a weird special case...
17:47:50  <planetmaker> that requires writing a redmine plug-in. Yes, possibly not "too hard". Can you please prove that to me?
17:48:00  <V453000> what is wood then :D
17:48:08  <frosch123> V453000: ask andy about wood, lumber and timber :)
17:48:37  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: in all my wagons, i either included or excluded wood specifically, not relying on cargo classes
17:48:51  <V453000> your wagons arent even drawn ...
17:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause> that has absolutely no relevance :p
17:49:11  <V453000> if the wood was liquified it could be in tankers and hence in liquid
17:49:13  <V453000> for example
17:49:23  <V453000> or giant ass wood, being in oversized
17:49:47  <V453000> how it is drawn matters considerably I think
17:49:48  <planetmaker> k, I made the link to bundles server a bit more prominent at dev.o.o
17:50:52  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i have no clue how to write a plugin. i suppose it's changing 3 lines in the tutorial/helloworld plugin
17:51:26  <frosch123> well, it's ruby :p
17:51:58  <planetmaker> I have no clue either. Nor any experience with ruby. But it's definitely more than 3 lines. I looked that much at how extensions work.
17:51:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never written a line of ruby in my life
17:52:04  <planetmaker> as you need to register it etc pp
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17:52:10  <planetmaker> maybe 30 will do
17:52:25  <planetmaker> anyhow, it needs s/o to do it
17:52:57  <Alberth> the list of bulit points below it seems a fine way?
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17:53:30  <planetmaker> you mean for linking bundles server?
17:53:49  <Alberth> as well as the projects, imho
17:54:03  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: alternatively, add it to the overview page, where it lists tickets and stuff
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17:54:30  <planetmaker> the ideal place would be a tab like 'Overview', 'Activity' etc
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17:55:22  <planetmaker> that place coming maybe 2nd in my preference list
17:57:07  <Eddi|zuHause> so a "Downloads" tab with "release"/"nightly"/"push" links, which can be configured and filled with default values
17:58:23  <planetmaker> there existed and URL tab extension for redmine 1.x. Which is severely broken for 2.3 which we use
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17:58:58  <planetmaker> fixing that extension was not obviously trivial
17:59:12  <V453000> BATT batteries == piece goods? :)
17:59:19  <V453000> CC_POWER? :D
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18:02:47  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: planetmaker: i guess it could possibly be easier to patch redmine directly to link to the bundles server (as in: same for all projects, not controllable by project)
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18:04:41  <planetmaker> yes, that would probably be easier. Yet still it makes sense to make it a selectable module for each project. Not every project has a download link
18:04:44  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that will again fail for the subprojects
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18:08:29  <V453000> what is type_abbreviation for?
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18:12:37  <Alberth>  ?
18:13:30  <V453000> yeah but I dont understand what is it used for
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18:13:41  <V453000> two-letter cargo type abbreviation?
18:13:45  <V453000> where does that show?
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18:14:57  <Eddi|zuHause> in the list filters
18:15:05  <Eddi|zuHause> like stations
18:16:10  <V453000> aha
18:16:20  <V453000> thanks
18:16:49  <MTsPony> mhh trying to load soap plugin, cannot import name poll
18:17:18  <Eddi|zuHause> then install that?
18:18:07  <planetmaker> however, on bundles server I made now symlinks from opengfx-mars-industries to opengfx-mars (and the same for the other sub-projects)
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18:19:26  <MTsPony> where do i install what?
18:20:16  <Eddi|zuHause> MTsPony: i suppose it's a python package
18:21:10  <MTsPony> perhaps part of  PySQLite or  PySQLite?
18:21:24  <MTsPony> Twisted*
18:21:55  <planetmaker> mind that soap is a plug-in for supybot
18:22:25  <planetmaker> so your supybot does work without soap plug-in?
18:22:59  <MTsPony> yeh, its an error when trying to load soap
18:23:35  <MTsPony> usin python 2.7 windows
18:23:58  <V453000> YETI COMPILES =D it doesnt define any sprites or industries, just cargoes, but compiles :D
18:24:11  <planetmaker> \o/
18:25:48  <planetmaker> MTsPony, you also have libottdadmin installed?
18:26:05  <MTsPony> yes sir
18:26:49  <MTsPony> system wide method
18:28:29  <MTsPony> the readme says twisted and pysqlite is recommendee but not sure if required or if its the cause at all
18:28:46  <V453000> how do I get what do I put instead of 0, 115 for industries ? disable_item(FEAT_INDUSTRIES, 0, 115);
18:29:27  <Alberth> it's a range of industries that you disable
18:29:43  <V453000> well yeah
18:29:56  <V453000> but where do I get what number to put there :D
18:30:12  <V453000> trains had 0, 115
18:30:16  <V453000> the value I got from -idkwhere-
18:30:46  <Alberth>   looks like the list
18:30:51  <V453000> technically if I put there 0, <maximum possible value>, it should work?
18:30:53  <planetmaker> ?
18:31:08  <planetmaker> @base 16 10 24
18:31:08  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 36
18:31:29  <Alberth> any value >= 36 should work :p
18:32:04  <juzza1> also according to, "If no further arguments are given, all default items of that feature are disabled."
18:32:08  <V453000> okay (: thanks
18:32:16  <V453000> oh
18:32:26  <Alberth> even easier :p
18:32:43  <V453000> that worked juzza1, tyvm
18:32:45  <V453000> :))
18:32:51  <planetmaker> MTsPony, I guess you'll have to try whether one of those is actually required instead of recommended
18:33:00  <MTsPony> aye, will do
18:33:08  <Alberth> I probably copied it from another opengfx-mars newgrf
18:33:34  <planetmaker> MTsPony, please make sure to report it as bug (against the soap documentation) when you know what's wrong :)
18:34:02  <V453000> creating industry to go now :D hm
18:34:08  <MTsPony> kk :)
18:36:49  <V453000> Blue tank sprites. spriteset(airmine_blue_tank_sprites, "../graphics/Buildings/Industry_AirMine_8bpp.png") {     [140, 140, 64, 64, -31, -35] [140, 72, 64, 64, -31, -35] [140, 4, 64, 64, -31, -35] }I always used only
18:36:55  <V453000> what are 3 [] things for?
18:37:02  <V453000> zooms?
18:37:11  <planetmaker> building stages
18:37:16  <V453000> O_O
18:37:27  <planetmaker> or whatever. It's just a spriteset
18:37:28  <V453000> didnt expect that to be defined there :D
18:37:49  <planetmaker> you can basically access any sprite in a spriteset at any place in your sprite layouts
18:38:32  <planetmaker> in the layout you can do like
18:38:48  <planetmaker> sprite: airmine_blue_tank_sprites(2);
18:39:00  <planetmaker> in order to access the 3rd sprite in the spriteset
18:39:03  <V453000> aha
18:39:15  <planetmaker> and the 2 of course could be a variable, too. For instance construction_stage
18:39:21  <planetmaker> construction_state
18:39:23  <V453000> OR I can simply define 3 different sprites with basically same result
18:39:31  <planetmaker> which is much more tedious
18:39:36  <V453000> right
18:39:55  <V453000> I think I will prefer tedious-but-able-to-see-what-I-am-doing per usual :D
18:40:11  <planetmaker> or animation frames. MUCH recommended to be used that way
18:40:19  <planetmaker> then sprite: spriteset_name(animation_frame)
18:40:20  <V453000> hm
18:40:38  <planetmaker> or you write 128 spritesets instead of 1
18:40:41  <V453000> but the animation frame is in different file
18:40:42  <V453000> ?
18:40:43  <planetmaker> and 128 switches
18:41:03  <planetmaker> I don't get your question
18:41:08  <V453000> I have 2 pngs
18:41:10  <V453000> f000
18:41:13  <V453000> and f001
18:41:23  <planetmaker> oh, file, not tile :)
18:41:26  <V453000> aha
18:41:28  <V453000> yeah :)
18:41:33  <planetmaker> that doesn't matter. Just make one spriteset from different files
18:41:48  <V453000> like
18:42:01  <V453000> spriteset (){}  (){} ?
18:42:22  <planetmaker> spriteset(name) { [140, 140, 64, 64, -31, -35, "filename1"], [140, 140, 64, 64, -31, -35, "filename2"] }
18:42:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i think inside the [] you can give a filename
18:42:32  <V453000> oh o_o
18:42:34  <V453000> hideous
18:42:36  <V453000> CODING.
18:42:41  <V453000> thanks :) very interesting
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19:18:29  <V453000> how do I tell a sprite to be 32bpp?
19:19:14  <V453000> aha I see
19:19:15  <V453000> hm
19:19:16  <V453000> :d
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19:19:55  <V453000> does this mean I MUST provide 8bpp sprites, and as ADDITIONAL I can provide 32bpp ones?
19:20:05  <V453000> that sounds unlikely
19:21:57  <Alberth> zbase was an extension to opengfx, so it seems likely to me
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19:22:42  <V453000> alternative_sprites (sprite_3BB_f000, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP) { [0, 672, 128, 64, -64, -32, "gfx/3BB/3BB_f000.png"] } this screams  " Undeclared block identifier sprite_3BB_f000"
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19:23:37  <Eddi|zuHause> you must provide 8bpp sprites before this
19:24:06  <V453000> right
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19:25:24  <frosch123> V453000: you must always have 8bpp normal zoom sprites, even if you make them only a black outline
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19:26:05  <V453000> hmf
19:26:12  <V453000> right
19:26:19  <V453000> so I can provide 8bpp 1x sprites
19:26:24  <V453000> and 32bpp x4 sprites
19:26:29  <V453000> is that all I need?
19:26:55  <frosch123> depends on whether you want to use effect colours
19:27:01  <frosch123> like blinking or company colours or stuff
19:27:10  <V453000> I dont intend to do that
19:27:25  <frosch123> then 8bpp 1x + 32bpp 4x is fine :)
19:27:38  <V453000> grate (:
19:27:54  <V453000> what will then show in 1x?
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19:28:04  <V453000> the 8bpp or a translation of the 32bpp 4x?
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19:28:22  <V453000> aka if I want x1 to be 32bpp, I must provide that additionally?
19:28:29  <frosch123> 32bpp will be used for 32bpp
19:28:55  <V453000> sure but what will happen if I view it in x1 in the game if I provide 8bpp x1 and 32bpp x4?
19:28:56  <frosch123> possible you also want separate ground tiles / building sprites for transparency
19:29:08  <frosch123> but you can also get away just showing dirt tiles in transparent mode
19:29:14  <Eddi|zuHause> the 32bpp will be preferred over the 8bpp
19:29:14  <V453000> mhm
19:29:42  <Eddi|zuHause> unless the game is forced to load with an 8bpp blitter
19:29:50  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: which means that x1 will show as 32bpp? basically meaning the 8bpp x1 never shows?
19:29:57  <frosch123> or you could show other hints in transparent mode
19:30:08  <frosch123> like yeti secrets
19:30:21  <Eddi|zuHause> for 99.9% of the users, 8bpp will never show
19:30:24  <V453000> transparent sprites can be defined somewhere else?
19:30:27  <V453000> right :)
19:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> for the other 0.1%, 8bpp must be provided as fallback
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19:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause> transparent sprites are calculated automatically
19:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause> all ground sprites will never be transparent, all building sprites are either darkened or hidden depending on transparent/invisible setting
19:32:12  <V453000> right
19:32:33  <frosch123> yeah, i did not mean transparent industries, but rather what you see when you set them to invisible
19:32:34  <Eddi|zuHause> like the default ore mine is all ground sprites
19:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> thus it doesn't change on 'X'
19:32:58  <frosch123> but if in doubt that can also just be dirt tiles
19:34:04  <planetmaker> V453000, 1x 8bpp and 4x32bpp is sufficient
19:34:23  <planetmaker> but it might affect - as mentioned above - the colour. See pota-ghat. It uses exactly that combination
19:36:36  <V453000> okay :D
19:36:44  <V453000> time to try defining the industry item
19:36:56  <V453000> hell imminent I assume
19:38:08  <Eddi|zuHause> just take one step after another :)
19:38:37  <V453000> I think I did just define the two sprites and it compiled ... without having a real effect but did :D
19:38:57  <frosch123> ship it?
19:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause> see, that is a nice step :p
19:39:01  <V453000> ?
19:39:08  <V453000> exactly Eddi|zuHause :D
19:39:20  <frosch123> early alpha build :p
19:39:59  <V453000> frosch123: nothing yet, but hopefully soon :P
19:40:16  <V453000> once I get one industry work properly, it is just copypaste  ... plus supplies etc I guess :)
19:41:35  <frosch123> the scary thing is that i expect you to just do exactly that: copy & paste :s
19:41:53  <V453000>  well if the industries are meant to work the same way? :P
19:42:03  <V453000> minus some changed input/output cargoes
19:42:20  <frosch123> other people would use a compiler or at least pre-processor :)
19:42:30  * Eddi|zuHause hides
19:42:32  <V453000> those creatures arent people but CODERS
19:42:43  <V453000> key difference
19:42:51  <V453000> me the human being uses copypaste
19:43:21  <frosch123> well, i figured i would have to make my own grf for a guano farm
19:43:23  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the problem with copy&paste is that you have to change all these pastes manually after you changed the original
19:43:33  <V453000> yes I know Eddi :)
19:43:59  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that is a) a lot of boring, tedious work, and b) easy to forget one or two places
19:44:02  <Alberth> you don't have that many industries
19:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause> let alone make mistakes and typos every time
19:44:41  <V453000> Eddi I know, but the time and effort I would have to spend learning stuff about preprocessors, templating and what not, is one hell worse on both the tedious, and mainly boring part
19:44:53  <V453000> for me
19:45:09  <Alberth> I agree NML lacks a sane template mechanism :)
19:46:33  <Alberth> andy would build a python code generator :p
19:46:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i agree, too. but code generators are not THAT difficult to understand
19:48:30  <planetmaker> it's a matter of what thing floats your boat
19:48:43  <planetmaker> clearly code generators don't float V's boat ;)
19:49:05  <planetmaker> also... if you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail ;)
19:49:39  <V453000> no, my boat is overflowing with NML already
19:50:24  <V453000> so, good news is that the thing compiles without having a problem with me
19:50:33  <V453000> the bad news is that the refinery I tried to creates doesnt exist in the game :D
19:50:34  <V453000>
19:50:46  <frosch123> well, sometimes the boat has to produce its own ocean first, before it can swim
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19:51:56  <V453000> substitute solved it :D
19:52:00  <V453000> I got my industries :D
19:52:05  <V453000> the sprites are off, but they are there :D
19:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: missing climate/year/other?
19:52:36  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: missing "substitute"
19:52:48  <frosch123> since "substitute" does not substitute, but define
19:52:59  <planetmaker> :P
19:53:11  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, weird?
19:53:12  <V453000> TRUE graphical revolution in OpenTTD
19:53:15  <frosch123> no, usual grf bollocks
19:53:17  <planetmaker> logic in NewGRFs is ... special
19:54:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "beware of floating triangles"?
19:54:11  <V453000> yarr
19:54:15  <V453000> they process oil like hell
19:54:22  <planetmaker> clearly the triangles float the boat ;)
19:54:23  <V453000> or well, ??typename :D
19:55:17  <__ln__> pozor!
19:55:27  <V453000> attention
19:56:27  <__ln__> naštupesti, jidzenka, dobriji den
19:59:01  <Eddi|zuHause> nastarovje
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19:59:23  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and english only!
19:59:36  <frosch123> at least use proper letters
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20:44:29  <frosch123> night
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21:07:27  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:34:52  <V453000> can I use templates in defining industry tiles?
21:35:02  <V453000> spriteset (sprite_3BB_01_f000){ [template_industrytile_x4_main(0,0,0,576), "gfx/8bpp/3BB.png"] }
21:35:07  <V453000> or is just my syntax wrong?
21:35:27  <V453000> nmlc screams template_industrytile_x4_main is not defined as a function
21:35:40  <planetmaker> syntax wrong
21:36:13  <planetmaker> spritesets behave the same. They're not specific to vehicle, industry or whatever
21:36:22  <planetmaker> so use the same way as for vehicles
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21:36:40  <V453000> the difference is the various files thingy
21:37:12  <planetmaker> that makes it trickier, yes
21:37:24  <planetmaker> but the filename can be a template parameter
21:37:39  <V453000> :0 hm
21:38:25  <V453000> aha
21:39:46  <V453000> works :D
21:39:46  <V453000> thanks
21:39:59  <planetmaker> great. Time for bed then :)
21:40:01  <planetmaker> g'night
21:40:45  <V453000> gnight
21:47:29  <MTsPony>  A quicky. I made a scenario and ran it for a few decades, suddenly all trees in tropic disappeared, or most of them. I know i turned off That trees wont grow, but i didnt expect them all to disappear?
21:48:20  <MTsPony> isnt there some way to 'freeze' em?
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21:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause> no. trees slowly disappear. or fast, if you have a tropic saw mill.
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22:00:36  <NGC3982> A Tropico Saw mill?
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22:10:59  <Eddi|zuHause> is that supposed to be a joke?
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23:22:57  <MTsPony> we're talking about the whole map here
23:23:02  <MTsPony> size went from 8 to like 4mb
23:23:16  <MTsPony> they all changed into debris
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