Log for #openttd on 4th November 2014:
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02:50:02  <andythenorth> @seen pikka
02:50:02  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 15 hours, 13 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: * Pikka bbatsomepoint
03:10:18  <Supercheese> @seen pikkaphone
03:10:19  <DorpsGek> Supercheese: pikkaphone was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 16 hours, 5 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Pikkaphone> Psh
03:10:34  <andythenorth> oic
03:10:40  <Supercheese> aye
03:11:49  <andythenorth> back to bed
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04:43:48  <DanMacK> Hey all
04:52:19  <Supercheese> Hi
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04:56:28  <Supercheese> Well
04:56:53  <Supercheese> now they're both on
04:57:15  <Pikka> but who's on first?
04:57:21  <Supercheese> Yes.
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06:44:11  <andythenorth> morning Pikka chops
06:44:18  <andythenorth> I missed the other one
06:44:24  <Pikka> bongiorno
06:44:27  <Pikka> you did at that
06:44:29  <andythenorth> I did
06:44:33  <Pikka> you did
06:44:36  <andythenorth> and I was awake half the UK night
06:44:40  <andythenorth> fixing servers in QLD
06:44:43  <Pikka> typical
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06:44:46  <andythenorth> typical
06:44:51  <Pikka> tch
06:45:00  <Pikka> what's the word?
06:45:33  <andythenorth> RoadTypes
06:45:38  <andythenorth> mostly
06:45:45  <andythenorth> because people are wrong on the internet
06:45:49  <andythenorth> so I had to stay up and argue
06:45:49  <Supercheese> zounds
06:46:01  <andythenorth> more accurately, !RoadTypes
06:46:29  <V453000> andythenorth: why the ass isnt hogging road visible to stable on pineapplenanas shop?
06:46:39  <andythenorth> because is brokens
06:46:42  <andythenorth> all over your face
06:47:21  <V453000> :d
06:47:28  <V453000> k
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06:48:12  <V453000> a start! :D
06:48:19  <V453000> BR82REALISTIC
06:48:37  <andythenorth> nice box art
06:48:44  <andythenorth> you should send that to shapeways btw
06:48:49  <andythenorth> and get it at 1:32 or something
06:48:59  <V453000> xd
06:49:47  <andythenorth> Pikka: what is go in pineapple land?
06:50:58  <Pikka> hmm
06:51:04  <Pikka> gotta texture another loco
06:51:07  <Pikka> then it's ready
06:51:15  <Pikka> NARS is just about ready now, going to release it today I think
06:51:29  <Pikka> I have this one week in which I can think about TTD stuff, then I think I'm done until, umm... March? D;
06:51:46  <Pikka> when uni will start again. So maybe until July, haha.
06:56:17  <andythenorth> so 1 week now to finish everything? o_O
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06:56:45  <Pokka> V: you gotta chibi it up for TTD. Realistic dimensions will look spindly
06:57:01  <Pokka> andy: pretty much.
06:57:09  <V453000> xd
06:57:12  <V453000> yeah
06:57:26  <V453000> just figuring out some basic shapes of the model
07:00:22  <Supercheese> Keep changing your name and you will keep stymieing poor Dorpsgek's @seen
07:00:37  <Supercheese> as andy discovered earlier
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08:25:16  <peter1138> Wrong? On the Internet? Surely not.
08:28:58  <__ln__> Shirley who?
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08:30:50  <peter1138> Now I'm reminded of the pilots taking off scene in Airplane.
08:30:55  <andythenorth> peter1138: I know, I was shocked
08:31:00  <Supercheese> They must also be wrong off the Internet too
08:31:47  <Pikka> whoops
08:31:49  <Pikka>
08:32:27  <Supercheese> oh snap
08:33:01  <peter1138> Snap, prapple and cock.
08:33:17  <peter1138> That train is long.
08:33:27  <andythenorth> not very
08:33:46  <andythenorth> if I am NARSing I do about 30 tile trains
08:33:49  <andythenorth> otherwise why bother
08:34:15  <andythenorth> also we should extend newgrf spec for more good features
08:34:19  <andythenorth> - dynamic braking capability
08:34:25  <andythenorth> - air reservoir capacity
08:34:31  <peter1138> Insta-brakes.
08:34:31  <andythenorth> - train coupler strength
08:34:46  <andythenorth> broken knuckle disaster
08:34:54  <andythenorth> also hot-box breakdown
08:35:10  <andythenorth> these are real train things
08:35:13  <Pikka> leaves on the line disaster?
08:35:14  <andythenorth> whatever your mind is thinking
08:35:33  <peter1138> Do trains explode whenever something breaks?
08:35:54  <peter1138> And decouple and spin madly...
08:36:04  <Pikka> how about you can skimp on driver training, for a 5% reduction in running costs but a .01% chance of trains running a red signal? that would add greatly to the gameplay!
08:36:38  <b_jonas> uh
08:37:58  <andythenorth> leaves
08:38:09  <andythenorth> saw this picture yesterday, wondered if that train needed more power
08:38:37  <andythenorth> only 6,600hp for those three wagons
08:38:54  <andythenorth> peter1138: so action 1 / 2 / 3 roads then? o_O
08:51:15  <peter1138> Dunno
08:51:36  <peter1138> Maybe we should implement daylength, badly, just to stop the endless supply of crappy patches and requests for specific versions...
08:52:03  <Pikka> daylength is a terrible feature
08:52:20  <planetmaker> moin
08:52:39  <Pikka> maybe if people stopped loading fifteen different train sets, all providing a hundred slightlydifferent locomotives, they wouldn't feel like they needed more time to use them all.
08:53:39  <Supercheese> regearing gone...
08:53:51  <Pikka> very
08:55:22  <planetmaker> Pikka, those who use a dozen trainsets think they want to play "realistically" but in essence they just want "the best" (whatever that is) machine for a boring leveled all-accross-the-track line
08:56:23  <Pikka> yep. but they're getting five new locos a minute and they can't handle figuring out which is "the best". So they want daylength to have more time to work it out.
08:56:31  <andythenorth> daylength is bizarro
08:56:57  <Supercheese> Well, even as a lad, I do recall wondering why the days were so short, and if I could make them longer...
08:57:25  <Pikka> the game time is just a number, it doesn't matter. if you're trying to fill the map in a hundred years and you can't, play a smaller map.
08:57:34  <Pikka> if you want to use allthetrains, play with fewer trains.
08:57:37  <Supercheese> then again, back then the day only showed up when paused, when unpaused it just displayed the month
08:57:38  <Pikka> etc etc
08:58:00  <Pikka> if you want to build without the world changing much, build while paused.
08:58:17  <Pikka> I don't understand the attraction of daylength, it's a bad solution to almost every problem.
08:58:18  <Supercheese> yeah that's what I do these days
08:58:52  <V453000> congrats Pikka :D
08:59:06  <peter1138> Let's remove the day display then.
08:59:27  <peter1138> It is pointless, anyway.
08:59:40  <Supercheese> Huh was 0-4-0 Grashopper removed?
09:00:03  <Pikka> it was
09:00:10  <Pikka> is the set ruined forever now?
09:00:16  <Supercheese> haha, no
09:00:23  <Supercheese> I never did use it, just checking changes
09:00:46  <peter1138> No additional text, how will I ever know what to build now?
09:00:53  <Pikka> I know right?
09:01:00  <Supercheese> Norris T.E. nerfed
09:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause> <Pikka> the game time is just a number, it doesn't matter. if you're trying to fill the map in a hundred years and you can't, play a smaller map. <- i disagree.
09:03:10  <V453000> wtf is the time good for then Eddi
09:03:54  <V453000> it really is just a number, defining a few functions like available vehicles or type of houses, but not really important
09:04:46  <planetmaker> Pikka, the point of daylength seems to be that they can pick whatever and have new vehicles not being introduced
09:04:55  <planetmaker> or the latter only (much) later
09:05:12  <planetmaker> so... maybe we can get by with a really cheap solution to daylength
09:05:22  <Pikka> turn on vehicles-never-expire and only build old locos?
09:05:36  <Pikka> really cheap solution being "don't introduce new vehicles after x date"? ;)
09:05:39  <Supercheese> Shay also gone
09:05:41  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it does matter a lot, because it allows people to match their own experienced world onto the game world
09:05:43  <Pikka> shay also gone.
09:05:46  <planetmaker> well. maybe under the hood. we just have to sell it as new with a new button "day length"
09:05:54  <Supercheese> I always preferred Climaxes anyway
09:05:59  <Supercheese> (not that they were in OTTD)
09:06:05  <V453000> really cheap solution would be to have grf parameter "spread engines over X years"
09:06:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: in my experience "just don't build them" doesn't work.
09:06:26  <V453000> e.g. NUTS now plays for 200 years, with parameter it could be 400 or 600 years. tada, daylength
09:07:03  <V453000> I was actually considering to do that but then couldnt figure an automatic way to do it and didnt feel like writing it manually XD
09:07:05  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: again, that only works if people do not expect a certain year to be matched with a certain engine
09:07:28  <V453000> jeez
09:07:42  <Supercheese> well it would work with NUTS since the engines are all WTF anyway
09:07:42  <V453000> mental disorder at work
09:07:59  <Supercheese> Realismz crowd would not approve of course
09:08:46  <V453000> regardless, is it possible to add some parametric values to the date thing?
09:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> the point of "realism" is not to make things actually realistic. but to provide an anchor poiint between the game world and the player's own experience
09:09:11  <Eddi|zuHause> and some people need more anchor points than others to enjoy a game
09:09:12  <V453000> like date(2043 +x, 1, 1); the x?
09:09:49  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: date(game_start_year+parameter*intro_date_offset, 1, 1)
09:09:53  <V453000> or would I have to make such a parameter by if parameter -bla- then : data A, date B, ...
09:10:01  <V453000> right
09:10:16  <V453000> can I just write it into NML like that and define those three things?
09:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't think it works like this
09:10:25  <V453000> yeah I tried, it didnt :(
09:10:40  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to find out the values that date() produces, and then put those in the code
09:10:41  <V453000> some time ago but I doubt that changed
09:10:47  <V453000> hm
09:10:54  <V453000> I will ask frog
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09:11:31  <V453000> admittedly even if NUTS has the timetable hax, other vehicle sets wont cope XD
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09:18:19  <andythenorth> just fake the date :P
09:18:23  <andythenorth> just have ottd lie
09:18:42  <andythenorth> nah
09:18:47  <andythenorth> someone would make charts
09:18:50  <andythenorth> showing why it’s wrong
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09:19:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that only works if you figure out which parts of the game to lie to differently
09:19:57  <Supercheese> Future trains removed too
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09:20:58  <Supercheese> we get the Acela though, nice
09:21:23  <Supercheese> Aerotrain, huh
09:22:21  <Supercheese> rather*
09:24:20  <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> admittedly even if NUTS has the timetable hax, other vehicle sets wont cope XD <-- and exactly that is the purpose of daylength, to avoid implementing it separately in every newrgf
09:27:20  <Pikka> aerotrain was in the old version, just hidden under the sw1200 :P
09:27:36  * Pikka bbl, carry on complaining!
09:27:46  *** Pikka is now known as Pikka|dindins
09:28:12  <planetmaker> we should replace date with an era description :)
09:29:30  <Supercheese> Bronze Age
09:29:32  <Supercheese> Iron Age
09:29:35  <andythenorth> we should stop worrying about it
09:29:45  <Supercheese> AoE grf go
09:30:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i always liked horse archers.
09:30:51  <andythenorth> dogs will always chase cats
09:30:54  <andythenorth> cats will always chase mice
09:31:01  <andythenorth> and the forums will always have daylength threads
09:31:07  <andythenorth> eternal verities
09:31:40  <Supercheese> no death and taxes?
09:31:53  <Supercheese> Dogs and cats first eh
09:31:59  <Supercheese> anyway, time to sleep
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09:32:33  <Eddi|zuHause> in my experience, dogs chasing cats is a myth
09:33:10  <andythenorth> an eternal myth
09:33:11  <andythenorth> :P
09:33:40  <Eddi|zuHause> and cats will chase everything that moves.
09:33:48  <andythenorth> sharks?
09:34:06  <Eddi|zuHause> until it doesn't move. then it's immediately boring.
09:34:41  <andythenorth> hmm
09:34:42  <andythenorth> to works
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09:37:06  <planetmaker> 'bronze era', 'steel era', 'steam era', 'electric era'...
09:38:18  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: plus research labs and a tech tree?
09:38:45  <V453000> you forgot slug era pm
09:39:29  <b_jonas> 'nuclear era'
09:40:05  <Eddi|zuHause> propeller era, jet era, supersonic era?
09:40:51  <Eddi|zuHause> manpower era, horsepower era, steampower era, dieselpower era?
09:41:06  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of ways to define eras.
09:41:20  <Eddi|zuHause> how does that make things easier than a date?
09:44:44  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, sure. Self-build your trains. From selectable components
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09:46:36  <peter1138> Start the game in 4000 BC. Initially, time flies, but slows down later on.
09:46:48  <peter1138> Also make it turn based.
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09:52:51  <planetmaker> yep, something like that, peter :)
09:53:18  <Eddi|zuHause> weird, internet disappeared for about a minute, but i didn't get thrown off all IRC networks...
09:54:21  <planetmaker> ping timeout... 7 minutes is long
09:56:52  <argoneus> good morning train friends
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09:58:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the server's ping timeout. the client has a totally different timeout...
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10:03:31  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: do you live in / near adam?
10:04:13  <Eddi|zuHause> no?
10:04:46  <argoneus> ah ok
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11:21:25  <peter1138>
11:40:56  <planetmaker> that was linked yesterday, wasn't it?
11:41:17  <__ln__> was
11:41:58  *** Pikka|dindins is now known as Pikka
11:42:01  <Pikka> sup kids
11:42:15  <planetmaker> sup
11:48:28  <Pikka> no complaints about NARS yet? I'm disappointed. maybe in the morning NA time. :)
11:48:53  <peter1138> Oh, didn't see it :(
11:48:54  <__ln__> i've never used it, but i can complain if you want.
11:49:20  <__ln__> first of all, there are no klingon birds-of-prey available.
11:49:31  <peter1138> My scrollback doesn't show it at least.
11:49:31  <Pikka> how do you know if you've never used it?
11:49:42  <__ln__> a wild guess
11:56:46  <peter1138> Pikka, it's crap!
11:57:01  <peter1138> I can't play it any more ;(
11:57:32  <peter1138> (That might actually be something to do with being at work...)
11:58:56  <Pikka> darn. well that's definitely a fault in the grf :)
12:00:11  <V453000> XD
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12:12:09  <Pikka> it's an andy once more
12:12:30  <andythenorth> lies
12:12:32  <andythenorth> twice more
12:12:41  <andythenorth> no more BAD FEATURES
12:13:48  <Pikka> shame
12:37:04  <andythenorth> peter1138: dunno if this helps
12:37:16  <andythenorth> otherwise we’ll send a DVD or a bootable thumb drive
12:37:39  <andythenorth> seems USB is valid, but we missed a step (copy the contents of the .iso to the thumb drive, instead of the whole .iso)
12:38:46  <peter1138> That article is rubbish, talking about creating partitions with filesystems, and then... using dd to overwrite all that anyway.
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12:40:01  <andythenorth> hrm
12:40:25  <peter1138> ...
12:40:30  <peter1138> Why do I have floppy disks on my desk?
12:40:55  <b_jonas> I've created bootable cd and dvd disks, even custom-made, but not bootable usb drives
12:41:08  <b_jonas> I could probably create bootable usb drives too similarly
12:41:11  <andythenorth> peter1138: floppy disks :o
12:41:21  <peter1138> Oh my fucking god, dog farted :(
12:41:22  <andythenorth> are they from an acorn? o_O
12:41:34  <peter1138> Nah, they're 3œ"
12:41:48  <andythenorth> archimedes used 3.5
12:41:51  <andythenorth> iirc
12:41:58  <andythenorth> dunno, they broke a lot is what I mostly remember
12:42:07  <andythenorth> multiple copies of everything
12:42:17  <andythenorth> many hours spent swapping disks to take ‘safety copies'
12:42:26  <andythenorth> we had a thing called pi-rat
12:42:38  <andythenorth> it was a pi symbol and a rat
12:42:40  <peter1138> :)
12:42:54  <peter1138> Oh, Archimedes :D
12:42:55  <andythenorth> used to help all the teachers at school pirate software with it :P
12:43:08  * andythenorth criminal past
12:43:11  <andythenorth> now respectables
12:43:27  <andythenorth> where is open source Chocks Away also
12:43:35  <andythenorth> how hard can it be to move polygons around?
12:43:52  <peter1138> Anyway, I tried copying the .cdr to the USB stick directly.
12:44:28  <peter1138> I can choose Mac OS X Install DVD from the boot options then, but when selected it just tries to boot OS X.
12:46:04  <andythenorth> how tedious
12:46:23  <peter1138> Same with holding C.
12:46:24  <andythenorth> if it was set up right it would just go to the installer
12:46:56  <peter1138> So it's possible it's a copy of the files from the CD, but not the boot sectors.
12:47:05  <peter1138> Or whatever it is on a CD.
12:47:22  <peter1138> Or I'm doing it all wrong :D
12:47:30  <andythenorth> ach, it’s an Apple thing
12:47:34  <andythenorth> when it works it just works
12:47:38  <andythenorth> and when it doesn’t, all bets off
12:47:57  <peter1138> Which is not impossible, but the Debian installer USB booted fine... eventually.
12:48:00  <andythenorth> you get the boot options by holding alt?
12:48:07  <peter1138> Yeah
12:48:14  <andythenorth> yeah that’s the correct thing
12:48:17  <andythenorth> there’s no other magic
12:48:22  <peter1138> Pressing C would boot the Debian installer, but it wouldn't work.
12:48:33  <peter1138> It worked with alt, though.
12:49:02  <andythenorth> we’ll make another thing and test it and post it
12:52:23  <peter1138> Also I had to use efibootmgr to disable some entries before Debian would boot.
12:53:20  <peter1138> But that should not affect booting from CD/USB.
12:53:29  <andythenorth> shenanigans
12:54:15  <peter1138> Wouldn't be surprised if the EFI firmware looks for OS X specifically :S
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13:32:14  <argoneus> ayy
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14:20:14  <planetmaker> hm...
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17:16:00  <argoneus> ayy
17:21:08  <V453000> no friends
17:33:40  <Alberth> I hardly ever ride in a train
17:34:26  <FLHerne> How come? They're pretty good for getting places
17:34:53  <peter1138> No, they're pretty crap.
17:36:06  <planetmaker> depends. On private travel I rarely use a train
17:36:50  <peter1138> I've never chartered a private train ;)
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17:38:31  <planetmaker> :D
17:39:06  <planetmaker> One can charter here a historic tram along with a ride for whatever occasion you want. E.g. for a party
17:39:29  <planetmaker> going on the normal tram tracks trough town
17:40:00  <Sylf> They let you charter a whole tram in Hokkaido for a private party
17:40:03  <Sylf> Beer tram
17:40:24  <Sylf> I want <3
17:40:53  *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
17:41:08  <Rubidium> I guess you'll get Sapporo ;)
17:43:42  <Rubidium> (not that the tram there was really notable)
17:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27055 /trunk/src/lang (simplified_chinese.txt traditional_chinese.txt) (2014-11-04 17:45:38 UTC)
17:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:48  <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 6 changes by siu238X
17:45:49  <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 49 changes by siu238X
17:46:12  <Rubidium> the only major caveat of the beer tram idea is that the beer museum is quite a long walk from the tram...
17:48:45  <Sylf> meh.  nevermind hokkaido/sapporo.  They have beer trains all over japan apparently
17:49:56  * Rubidium wonders what constitutes a historical tram/train
17:56:25  <planetmaker> when you're in Japan you can also drink the world-best whiskey alegedly
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18:00:40  <Jinassi> Or, soda drinks of every flavour imaginable.
18:07:28  <Rubidium> reminds me to figure out where to get some okonomiyaki around here
18:07:46  <Sylf> make it at home :)
18:10:08  <Rubidium> it seemed quite complex when they prepared it for me
18:12:40  <Sylf> I only use flour, water, cabbage, some kind of meat (usually pork) and water when I make it.  top it with either worcestershire sauce or okonomiyaki sauce and japanese mayonnaise.  it's basically a pancake with some extra ingredients
18:13:50  <Sylf> then, my friend made the pseudo korean variant, with kimchi.  yum.
18:14:05  <planetmaker> kimchi... yum yum :)
18:14:47  <planetmaker> was the only food which ever was served to me which was too hot for me to eat :) Lost sense of taste for hours :)
18:15:25  <Eddi|zuHause> pro tip on handling hot food: blow it and wait a while.
18:15:37  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the other hot. spicy-hot
18:15:44  <Eddi|zuHause> oh
18:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
18:16:03  <Eddi|zuHause> lost in translation :p
18:16:07  <planetmaker> :)
18:16:11  <Sylf> so, the other pro-tip comes into play?  do not rub your eyes after handling such food?
18:16:17  <planetmaker> :D
18:16:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that only applies if you handle it with your hands :p
18:17:00  <planetmaker> I did not do that... also I usually eat my food with cutlery, shopsticks in this case
18:17:06  <planetmaker> *chopsticks
18:17:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt i'd get along with chopsticks
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18:19:52  <planetmaker> not exactly tricky
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18:33:55  <Eddi|zuHause> too many people got injured while i was learning to ride a bike :p
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18:40:32  <NGC3982> Trying to use timetables.
18:40:45  <NGC3982> conditional orders*
18:41:06  <NGC3982> If i set a conditional order on "when 90% load, skip to next order"
18:41:20  <NGC3982> How can i keep the train there?
18:41:26  <NGC3982> Trying not to use full load settings.
18:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause> "Do not watch this documentary about Fukushima if you have a winter depression."
18:42:49  <FLHerne> You can't
18:43:15  <FLHerne> You can have an 'if load < 90%, go around to the loading point again' though
18:43:21  <FLHerne> But that's kind of ugly
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18:43:49  <Alberth> hi andy
18:44:04  <Eddi|zuHause> just use a timetable
18:45:03  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: That doesn't work with industries with significantly-varying output though, like low-served secondaries
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18:46:34  <NGC3982> Pax?
18:46:45  <NGC3982> I'm trying citybuilder for the first time.
18:46:54  <NGC3982> And full load orders are not allowed.
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18:48:12  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you manage to get not-full passenger trains?
18:48:37  <andythenorth> o/
18:49:02  <Eddi|zuHause> provide a bus service to get ratings up
18:49:08  <Eddi|zuHause> get flooded with passengers
18:49:17  <ST2> complete section of the rule: Do not put full load orders on road vehicles in shared towns/cities.
18:49:37  <ST2> wich, for me, makes sense - to avoid blocking other players RV's
18:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that makes sense, yes.
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19:34:18  <andythenorth> cat?
19:35:21  <Rubidium> less
19:35:36  <andythenorth> good answer
19:35:45  <FLHerne> tail?
19:35:55  <Eddi|zuHause> iz in ur konsole, reading ur filez
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19:40:27  <__ln__>
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19:48:23  <__ln__> in 2014 physical keyboards for cellphones need to be crowdfunded, yet funding looks pretty effective.
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19:53:46  <Wolf01> hi hi
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20:15:17  <Wolf01> mh, banished 50% on steam... maybe
20:32:20  <Xaroth|Work> it's fun, but not -that- much replayability
20:57:08  <andythenorth> hmm
20:57:09  <andythenorth> is bed
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21:28:12  <Eddi|zuHause> for 10€ it's probably worth it.
21:29:24  <Eddi|zuHause> but indeed, the replayability suffers of lack of design choices
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21:29:47  <Eddi|zuHause> after a while it's just more of the same
21:30:27  <Wolf01> it has modding now
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21:53:03  <Wolf01> 'night all
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22:51:34  <frosch123> night
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