Log for #openttd on 11th November 2014:
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08:06:14  <Rubidium> so... a netsplit that hasn't been resolved yet after 6 hours. Poor guys that were on the other side of the netsplit like me
08:11:48  <supermop> thats whats going on?/
08:12:07  <__ln__> i first read that as "after 6 years" and thought wtf
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09:22:25  <Marshy> Morning!
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09:36:33  <V453000> Pikka: so my models are stretching at 100% in / \ views, but 140% in both - and | :D
09:36:49  <V453000> that is what fills the sprites properly, lets see how it works out
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09:39:54  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc sqrt(2)
09:39:55  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1.41421356237
09:40:07  <Eddi|zuHause> so 141% would be more accurate
09:44:25  <V453000> :D
09:44:31  <V453000> hm. :)
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10:03:07  <argoneus> ayy
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10:05:15  <supermop> V453000: so much for solidarity with Pikka to press for non stretched sprites?
10:05:46  <V453000> ?
10:06:06  <V453000> what do you mean supermop ?
10:07:21  <supermop> i though Pikka intentionally forwent stretching _ and | to encourage an eventual change to a non-stretched handling of those angles?
10:08:06  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: as if that would ever happen.
10:09:04  <V453000> yes supermop, he did, but it just doesnt look good in the game and seriously considering such a change is silly
10:09:15  <V453000> breaking everything we have till now just cause it isnt "correct" is just a bad idea imo
10:09:41  <V453000> we were discussing things with Pikka earlier, at a point where I did not yet know how will I do my vehicles, now I have it done so was making a report :P
10:11:00  <supermop> V453000: why not just space out the / and \ of every old set to compensate! surely everyone would be fine with their trains sticking out of station blocks and getting stuck
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10:13:22  <V453000> xd
10:13:41  <argoneus> I wonder
10:13:49  <argoneus> is it possible to be hired as a programmer without uni education? (slightly OT)
10:13:56  <supermop> sure
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10:14:59  <supermop> i mean depends a bit on local job market, but its probably easier to do in programming than almost any other industry so long as you are capable of doing the work
10:17:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there are plenty of jobs for "uneducated" programmers, but i highly recommend getting that education.
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10:18:12  <argoneus> I'm too dumb for it I feel
10:18:42  <blathijs> supermop: " so long as you are capable of doing the work " <-- In my experience, being competent is certainly not always a requirement either :-p
10:18:56  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: you can't space out the / and \ view because that breaks station lengths and stuff
10:19:07  <planetmaker> argoneus, you'll never know if you don't try. Try hard that is
10:19:19  <argoneus> I'm at uni second year now
10:19:24  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: exactly - surely no one will complain about that!
10:19:27  <argoneus> and things get harder and harder and I can't really keep up
10:19:30  * argoneus shrugs
10:20:14  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: well then go a step back and repeat stuff at a slower pace...
10:20:36  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody's going to kill you for taking a year longer...
10:22:11  <argoneus> it feels like I'm wasting everyone's time by taking longer
10:22:24  <argoneus> and even if I do it's not guaranteed I won't fail just before finals
10:22:28  <argoneus> and then I might as well go sweep the streets
10:25:12  <Eddi|zuHause> # sweep the streets i used to roam
10:25:26  <Eddi|zuHause> there is never a guarantee of anything
10:26:29  <argoneus> besides
10:27:06  <argoneus> I think that "I failed school" is worse than not going there at all
10:27:13  <argoneus> for employers that is
10:27:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i somehow doubt that
10:27:41  <argoneus> well
10:27:51  <argoneus> it means you weren't sure what to do and couldn't pursue what you wanted to
10:28:01  <argoneus> if you get a job righta fter HS, it means you know what you want, no?
10:28:09  <Eddi|zuHause> no
10:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's not a bad thing to not know what you want.
10:28:45  <argoneus> well I want to do this
10:28:53  <argoneus> but it's overwhelming and I lose motivation at every hurdle
10:29:06  <argoneus> because it's way too uncertain
10:29:19  <Eddi|zuHause> if motivation is your trouble, talk to more people.
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10:33:01  <V453000> my anchor of motivation is making it a hobby
10:33:11  <V453000> creating a project that includes doing that and requiring to learn whatever
10:33:43  <V453000> but talking to people about it helps a ton
10:36:50  <V453000> and if you can, getting education is the best thing you can do
10:36:57  <V453000> note, a person without a school says that
10:40:01  <andythenorth> meh
10:40:14  <andythenorth> I’ve hired at least two people who quit or failed CS degress
10:40:17  <andythenorth> degrees *
10:40:34  <argoneus> andythenorth: master or bachelor?
10:40:37  <andythenorth> masters
10:40:48  <andythenorth> in both cases they got a bachelor instead
10:40:52  <andythenorth> 3 years instead of 4
10:41:07  <argoneus> yeah
10:41:13  <argoneus> I'm talking about not even doing bach
10:41:20  <argoneus> undergrads are fine
10:41:38  <andythenorth> I’ve hired more who got 1st or 2:1 and they are generally better at common tasks
10:41:54  <andythenorth> but people who’ve failed or quit sometimes have non-standard approaches, which can sometimes be useful
10:42:25  <andythenorth> often they’re smart, but just didn’t fit to the regulated timetable of a degree
10:42:30  <andythenorth> or the way the work is organised
10:42:38  <andythenorth> not always the case :P
10:43:00  <argoneus> realistically
10:43:16  <argoneus> are there any people who work as webdevs, have only high school education, enjoy their life and have enough money?
10:43:19  <V453000> the word
10:43:20  <V453000> it hurts
10:43:21  <argoneus> or is that mostly a stupid dream
10:43:26  <argoneus> that most people imagine
10:43:39  <andythenorth> there are fuck load of people making a living doing WP websites or whatever
10:43:40  <argoneus> not that I'd want to be a webdev
10:44:19  <andythenorth> depending exactly where you are in the world, employment prospects are not as scary in the outside world as it looks from inside school or university
10:44:36  <argoneus> as in
10:44:42  <argoneus> it's not hard to find a local development company?
10:44:43  <andythenorth> maybe in some European countries right now, it’s pretty bad
10:44:47  <andythenorth> but otherwise...
10:44:52  <argoneus> pretty bad as in, overcrowded?
10:45:07  <andythenorth> pretty bad as in maybe 40% youth unemployment
10:45:09  <andythenorth> which is high
10:45:46  <argoneus> I live in the capital city
10:45:50  <argoneus> I wonder if that helps anything
10:46:15  <andythenorth> yes
10:46:32  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the larger the city, the more likely you get "IT" jobs
10:46:33  <andythenorth> big cities are much more fun and easier to find work in than if you’re stuck in arse-end of nowhere
10:46:48  <andythenorth> also lower transport costs, easy to find people to share with
10:47:13  <andythenorth> higher quality of life etc
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10:47:34  <argoneus> so if shit really hits the fan somehow, which I hope it doesn't
10:47:48  <argoneus> there's a chance I could at least be a wordpress shitter before I get things back in order somehow?
10:48:12  <argoneus> even with just highschool education (hope not the case)
10:48:34  <andythenorth> classic entry level jobs in the industry: QA / testing, content entry / content management, social media moderation
10:48:43  <argoneus> well
10:48:44  <andythenorth> all of which will pay ~minimum wage
10:48:51  <argoneus> I work as QA at Oracle right now part time
10:48:54  <argoneus> will any company care about that?
10:48:56  <andythenorth> yes
10:49:01  <andythenorth> QA is a classic route into the industry
10:49:07  <andythenorth> although also lots of people do it
10:49:21  <argoneus> so if I have high school education with 2 years QA at Oracle, it's a plus?
10:49:24  <V453000> argoneus: if you have the stomach for it / enjoy doing it, making webpages is quite easy to make money with
10:49:25  <andythenorth> -ve side, lots of people do it, it’s grunt work
10:49:26  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: if anything, companies will care MORE about the jobs you did on the side
10:49:44  <andythenorth> +ve side, gives you exposure to the stuff that goes wrong in software
10:49:53  <andythenorth> and how many devs just dump stuff over the fence to QA
10:50:05  <V453000> everybody needs a website
10:50:08  <argoneus> oh
10:50:12  <argoneus> wait
10:50:19  <argoneus> so even if this ends up failing somehow
10:50:32  <argoneus> then "I was a QA at a big company for 2 years and attended uni for 2 years" is a valid argument for a decent job?
10:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> certainly
10:50:45  <andythenorth> it’s not awful
10:50:51  <V453000> everything you did is a good argument
10:51:02  <argoneus> "I made a 8 track station without jams"
10:51:07  <V453000> ps I would not take uni as fail/win but as "learn amount of shit"
10:51:09  <V453000> not y/n
10:51:41  <argoneus> V453000: question, if you don't mind
10:51:42  <V453000> obviously it comes down to if you have the paper or not, but they will fire you anyway if you cant do anything but have a paper :)
10:51:49  <argoneus> how hard fast it for you to come your current job and do you like it
10:51:51  <argoneus> was*
10:52:02  <argoneus> find*
10:52:05  <argoneus> what did I just write
10:52:07  <Eddi|zuHause> there certainly is a gap in "attended university" or "finished university", but it's usually not a "we won't hire you" gap, more like a "we pay you x% less" gap
10:52:25  <argoneus> hm, you're right Eddi|zuHause
10:52:41  <argoneus> the difference between "I have a bachelor" and "I studied for 3 years and then failed" is that "I didn't study enough for the final exam"
10:52:43  <V453000> it was not easy but I dont get much money right now, the job is okay, mainly I do what I want to do, and I hope that eventually I will learn enough to apply for a job elsewhere/find a job elsewhere
10:52:44  <argoneus> right?
10:53:04  <V453000> before that I was doing 2 years of various smaller jobs like smaller 2D graphics jobs here and there, some website horseshit, ...
10:53:10  <argoneus> ah
10:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: i don't think that's the way HR people actually think
10:53:29  <argoneus> V453000: can you disclose your wage at least the order of magnitude?
10:53:41  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: I don't understand how HR people think :<
10:54:01  <V453000> way lower than you would expect a 3D artist to have. :)
10:54:27  <argoneus> is it sub 20k?
10:54:39  <V453000> around it
10:54:52  <argoneus> hm
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10:55:06  <argoneus> my friend got his bachelor in theoretical informatics
10:55:10  <argoneus> and had 35k in his first entry job
10:55:14  <argoneus> never did anything before
10:55:17  <argoneus> :/
10:55:34  <V453000> depends from company to company, in Prague you definitely get a lot more for IT/graphics/... jobs than elsewhere
10:56:12  <andythenorth> bbl
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10:56:44  <argoneus> V453000: so if you were in prague, you'd have better opportunities? ;c
10:56:58  <V453000> like totally different
10:57:07  <V453000> here are about 2 companies which hire 3D artists
10:57:12  <V453000> in prague there are a lot more
10:57:15  <argoneus> oh
10:57:19  <argoneus> the more competition, the more pay, right
10:57:44  <V453000> not just that but also more chance to get an actual job
10:57:57  <argoneus> oh
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11:12:11  <peter1138> V453000, you're rendering vehicles?
11:13:49  <peter1138> 10:13 < argoneus> is it possible to be hired as a programmer without uni education? (slightly OT)
11:13:52  <peter1138> < yes :S
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11:18:30  <supermop> argoneus: i take it you have an EU passport and you seem to have good english skills
11:18:54  <supermop> with a bit of experience and an open mind you can probably find work anywhere on the continent
11:19:23  <supermop> that said, dont just move somewhere $$$ like London with no job offer
11:20:25  <supermop> but as others have said, sometimes a vareity of experience will make you stand out better to the person hiring than just a BA or BS diploma
11:21:03  <peter1138> Most job adverts state a requirement for a degree, though.
11:21:40  <supermop> also here in australia i am working for a start up doing graphic work - my bosses are the two founders and they do all of the programming work: one dropped out of a CS degree years ago, and the other never went to University
11:22:53  <supermop> peter1138: argoneus: job adverts are maybe the worst way to get a job if you are just starting out or in an unconventional situation
11:23:42  <supermop> often the advertiser gets so many responses that they will use all criteria to filter people out, even if it means discarding good applicants
11:23:56  <supermop> because they cannot interview hundreds of people
11:26:59  <supermop> i would agree with Eddi|zuHause though, as long as you are not accruing major debt to go to school, I would stay in school even if it means going more slowly
11:28:12  <supermop> it certainly will impact your total salary, and some of the other tangential stuff you learn might end up improving your quality of life for years to come in other ways
11:28:38  <supermop> some of the most important stuff to learn in undergrad is not taught in lectures...
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11:42:28  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, you seem to have upset aberro...
11:42:44  <Rubidium> I reckon getting hired without a CS education as a programmer without any provable history in software development is quite improbable
11:43:48  <Rubidium> those that never make it to university or drop out of university but end up working in software development are either starting their own business, or have some sort of provable history in software development (e.g. open source work)
11:43:52  <Jinassi> Couldn't work in opensource software prove as a healthy addition to the portfolio?
11:44:29  <Eddi|zuHause> likely
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11:45:51  <Rubidium> on the other hand, having lots of experience in open source software development and having just received your masters can be a tricky situation to get a job because you either have too much experience or too little experience for many of the potential employers
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11:49:44  <V453000> peter1138: I am rendering vehicles, yes? :D
11:50:07  <V453000> does it make me a bad person? :D
11:50:11  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27060 trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp (2014-11-11 11:50:04 UTC)
11:50:12  <DorpsGek> -Doc: Remove obsolete comment (64KB LUT would be 8GB with current limits)
11:50:35  <peter1138> V453000, no, it means that scaling 140% in some views is hardly a permanent issue.
11:50:43  <V453000> ?
11:55:17  <V453000> I dont understand what do you mean :d
11:55:51  <peter1138> Evidently not.
11:56:14  <peter1138> Recall your conversation from 2œ hours ago, when some concern was expressed regarding shorter or longer sprites.
11:56:58  <V453000> yes
12:01:11  <V453000> and you sez the 140% is not permanent
12:01:13  <V453000> what do you mean by that
12:01:28  <V453000> that changing everything to make it all "correct" is not out of bounds of reality?
12:01:45  <peter1138> I assume you can just change that 140% scaling...
12:02:08  <peter1138> Unlike with sprites where everything would have to be redrawn.
12:02:34  <peter1138> Er, "sprites" I mean, hand drawn pixel art.
12:03:07  <V453000> right
12:03:52  <peter1138> Hate shiny black plastic... one single touch and it becomes a magnet of smeary fingerprints :(
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12:20:20  <supermop> peter1138: oleophobic coatings
12:20:23  <supermop> later
12:23:12  <Jinassi> fact check: when setting company name and pw in config, it adds it in mp, so you do not have to add it manually
12:23:31  <Jinassi> or am i wrong?
12:24:07  <planetmaker> try it and see?
12:24:20  <planetmaker> I expect it to work only when creating a company, though
12:24:32  <Jinassi> already doing it, just editing some stuff and wanted some quick validation
12:24:37  <Jinassi> true
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13:16:21  <Jinassi> added instructions on how to change font on ddesura, since i have gotten a few messages why it is antsize/small/need glasses
13:16:48  <Jinassi> since providing a link for them has no effect
13:17:21  <planetmaker> link them to our wiki instead
13:17:29  <planetmaker> one place for documentation is better than 10
13:17:56  <Jinassi> i did, it did nothing
13:18:19  <planetmaker> well, link the exact page, of course :)
13:18:43  <planetmaker> but you probably did that, too.
13:18:49  <planetmaker> people just are lazy and / or stupid :)
13:19:54  <peter1138> Yeah they still won't read it.
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13:28:49  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, is that just me or did train fever suddenly halve the income from passengers?
13:29:13  <peter1138> It's just you. Nobody else is playing it.
13:29:27  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever...
13:31:59  <planetmaker> tehehe :)
13:36:22  <peter1138> Well, is someone else here playing it?
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13:45:05  <V453000> haha
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14:04:00  *** Netsplit <-> quits: V453000, LadyHawk, __ln__, Yexo, APTX, @peter1138, +michi_cc, TrueBrain, Yotson, Celestar,  (+5 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
14:04:07  *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain
14:05:06  *** Netsplit over, joins: LadyHawk, Celestar, Yotson, Yexo, V453000, KouDy, __ln__, APTX, +michi_cc, Ammler (+4 more)
14:05:17  <peter1138> :o
14:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause> at least that wasn't a 6 hour netsplit :p
14:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause> or almost 7 hours
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14:14:29  <V453000> hmffff
14:14:37  <V453000> something in my thing is broken XD
14:14:42  <V453000> sub-pixel differences in offsets
14:15:13  <peter1138> :s
14:17:38  <V453000> :(
14:19:04  <Eddi|zuHause> there's probably a pattern behind it
14:19:43  <V453000> yeah
14:20:00  <V453000> I kind of know the source but cant find it quite yet
14:22:26  <peter1138> Nasty :p
14:22:45  <peter1138> Also are they meant to be rubbing against each other?
14:23:06  *** Flygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:23:22  <V453000> LOL
14:23:30  <V453000> you mean the yoffset differences?
14:23:32  <V453000> that is the actual issue
14:25:23  <argoneus> sorry, I was away
14:25:40  <argoneus> so basically Eddi|zuHause & supermop: since I got to go to an uni, I should stay for as long as I can unless they kick me?
14:26:10  <V453000> I think the main idea was trying not to :P but yes
14:31:48  <V453000> interesting :D [WTF] found the issue probable
14:31:48  <V453000> y
14:34:24  <V453000> hm, the wagons add about 4MB to the grfsize
14:34:30  <V453000> one set of hopper wagons that is
14:35:02  <peter1138> V453000, no, I mean the fact that there is zero spacing between the wagons.
14:35:09  <Eddi|zuHause> that is bigger than the entirety of TT
14:35:28  <V453000> peter1138: those wagons are a bit specific, maglev ones do that yeah
14:35:45  <V453000> some rail wagons will have gaps
14:36:04  <V453000> ... done in the model, perhaps touching by the bumper thingies trains haz
14:36:21  <V453000> this is precisely 0.25 tile long x wide model box
14:36:40  <V453000> useful to make boxes first to get the scale right
14:37:52  <V453000> hm, nice
14:38:27  <V453000> I made 100,8% x 100% scaling of the render to make it fit better, and actually 100,8% x 100,8% fits better XD even though it totally doesnt fit the pattern made of tiles
14:38:39  <V453000> -> camera closer and a bit of fiddling, and done
14:43:28  <peter1138> Sounds imprecise.
14:44:18  <Quatroking> what's a good 4-way junction?
14:44:31  <Quatroking> I've been using a lot of clover junctions but they're slow
14:44:33  <Eddi|zuHause> none
14:44:47  <V453000> it is very imprecise peter1138 :D
14:45:21  <V453000> at the moment I have a result which is not really noticeable by eye without brutal zooming
14:45:24  <Jinassi> Define slow? i can make an example for you, a bit differently made, but trains have 3 paths to choose for 1 destination
14:45:35  <Quatroking> Jinassi, too much sharp corners
14:46:20  <peter1138> I'd just do a flat crossing with (path) signals in appropriate places.
14:46:43  <Jinassi> kk, i'll go and make an example and post a screenshot then, path signals are used too
14:46:46  <peter1138> And then when I see that some route is busier, or blocking, find a way to route that difference to avoid congestion.
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14:47:36  <Jinassi> Quatroking: how long are your trains?
14:47:47  <Quatroking> longest train is 6 tiles, majority is 5
14:47:51  <Jinassi> rgr
14:48:12  <Quatroking> for T-junctions I use
14:48:19  <Quatroking> can't figure out how to make that a crossing though
14:49:07  <V453000> you just build it? XD
15:04:52  <peter1138> V453000, make it 2x 8bpp :p
15:05:24  <NGC3982> Taede: I still have not solved the issue with the Soap plugin not being able to send IRC data to the server. Server data flows nicely to the IRC channel, but not on the other way around. What are your suggestions on how to continue? I cannot seem to find any documentation or command regarding enabling/disabling the feature.
15:05:27  <V453000> thank you very much, NO :-D
15:07:02  <NGC3982> This bug seems to be able to affect it, but as we established last time i do have an enabled command character.
15:07:05  <NGC3982>
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15:47:56  <V453000> shit fixed (yet again) XD
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15:59:28  <V453000> it is not absolutely ultraprecise, but you cant really distinguish it
16:02:44  <Alberth> o/
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16:03:14  <V453000> hi Alberth :)
16:03:26  <V453000> I think I finally got my thing to work properly :)
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16:06:30  <Alberth> it needs a few paths between the boxes to water the plants :p
16:06:45  <V453000> what XD
16:07:48  <Alberth> :)
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16:10:43  <Alberth> oh, they're train wagons?
16:10:47  <Alberth> quak quak
16:11:11  <frosch123> moin
16:12:22  <V453000> yeah maglev for NUTS
16:12:23  <V453000> hi frog
16:12:42  <frosch123> what do you guess takes compiling yeti from scratch on my machine? :p
16:13:14  <Alberth> 4 hours?
16:13:47  <frosch123> factor 8 off
16:14:01  <Xaroth|Work> 32 horus?
16:14:14  <frosch123> no, that would be stupid :)
16:14:21  <V453000> it isnt that far from truth :P
16:14:52  <frosch123> 26 minutes, it only properly utilises two cores yet
16:14:58  <V453000> :D
16:15:01  <V453000> fuck yeah
16:15:20  <V453000> it only used 1 cpu on the devzone till now, now it will wreck multiple cpus XD
16:15:55  <frosch123> well, i guess pm would disable the threading anyway :p
16:16:09  <frosch123> it's more some kind of experiment, not really for devzone
16:16:42  <V453000> :)
16:20:57  <Sylf> aha! green jell-o uranium
16:20:59  <Sylf> lovely
16:21:04  <V453000> fuck yeah
16:21:11  <V453000> and fully working pipeline now
16:21:12  <V453000> .-
16:21:13  <V453000> :)
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16:21:41  <V453000> whole set of wagons done in like 3 hours
16:21:59  <V453000> admittedly they are super simple, and creating the pipeline took days XD
16:22:02  <V453000> but, yeah :)
16:22:27  <V453000> most of the work was actually creating the materials, I can reuse even those
16:22:36  <V453000> the joy of 3D models
16:26:01  <V453000> ... the ez wagons actually kind of fit the 8bpp engines, too XD
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16:28:47  <planetmaker> indeed I would / have disabled threading on DevZone. Each builder only has one core available
16:28:51  <frosch123> <- haha, as expected :) it only properly works for yeti sized sprites
16:28:53  <planetmaker> For security reasons :)
16:29:16  <frosch123> vehicle grfs have too small sprites, so encoding is too fine-granular
16:29:42  <frosch123> otoh, we need more 32bpp zi4 vehicles sets :p
16:29:44  <planetmaker> nice work, frosch123 :)
16:30:11  <planetmaker> and I'm optimistic that the demand for grf compilers capable of handling 4x sprites will increase :)
16:30:16  <V453000> frosch123: NUTS is coming :P
16:30:19  <planetmaker> whatever, vehicles, landscapes, industries :)
16:30:44  <V453000> indeed
16:30:53  <V453000> great effort frosch123 :) well done
16:31:00  <V453000> anyway, me be going
16:31:02  <V453000> cyaz
16:31:07  <Alberth> byez
16:31:10  <planetmaker> bye v
16:31:17  <planetmaker> or buy v? :P
16:31:53  <Alberth> looking very nice frosch123
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16:33:13  <planetmaker> frosch123, that means we'll need to provide compiled c-modules then?
16:34:37  <frosch123> exactly, but switching channels for that
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17:04:12  <Marshy> Is 'Cargodist' a norm for most players now, or is there still a large group that use the standard cargo distribution?
17:04:34  <Marshy> Sorry, only picked up OTTD again after a few years away a couple weeks ago, learning about the new features
17:04:36  <frosch123> i think there is a large group where it makes no difference :p
17:04:40  <Marshy> Ah
17:05:09  <frosch123> cdist only makes a difference if your network allows cargo to have multiple destinations
17:05:48  <Marshy> So it wouldn't allow for a specific destination unless there was a route through the network to that destination?
17:05:52  <frosch123> unless people change their playstyle, you will only find that in passenger networks
17:07:01  <Marshy> In most cases only one end cargo destination is usually used on a network, eg factory sawmill etc, so cargodist is more effective for passenger networks?
17:07:38  <Marshy> Or goods
17:07:45  <Sylf> I search the multiplayer server list for cargodist, and I only see 8 hits.  2 private servers, 2 patched servers, so only 4 readily available servers.
17:08:02  <planetmaker> Sylf, most won't explicitly list it in the name
17:08:14  <Sylf> no, but I think it's an indication
17:08:26  <planetmaker> for much cargodist or for little :)
17:08:28  <Sylf> seeing how many servers like to list their settings in the server name itself
17:08:55  <frosch123> good point, for someone to use cdist, they would have to find it in the settings :p
17:09:20  <Marshy> Took me a few goes :P
17:09:30  <frosch123> so, in any case, it requires an active decision for the player to use cdist
17:09:37  <Marshy> It was like delving into a long dark cave of settings
17:09:39  <frosch123> that will by default exclude the majority :p
17:10:33  <Sylf> I tried cargo dist with firs supply, and decided it frustrated me more than being fun after just 30 minutes :P
17:11:01  <Marshy> I tend not to play multiplayer, but was just trying to decide whether it would benefit or not, it would be interesting for passenger / mail and goods maybe, as you could fill in the 'missing' connections in a network
17:11:50  <Marshy> But meh, I've been playing standard industry change and cargo dist since reinstalling and works fine for me, just need to have a go with FIRS or ECS next
17:12:09  <Marshy> Very good idea though, adds a new dynamic to the game
17:13:00  <Sylf> When FIRS says they need X amount per Y days, and then cargodist decides on its own how much goes to where, and when they don't jive...
17:13:14  <Sylf> That's when I started pulling little hair I have left
17:13:29  <Marshy> More effort than required
17:13:31  <Marshy> Save your hair
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17:30:13  <FLHerne> Is a 'show settings for server' button something that would make sense? I know doing it for the whole list would be too big, but the ability to view settings without joining would be quite handy
17:35:51  <Sylf> I would like that.
17:38:49  *** pixar is now known as pxr
17:48:15  <Quatroking> i wish openttd had copypaste
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17:51:21  <Prof_Frink> I wish openttd had baconprint.
17:53:29  <planetmaker> and an undo knob. And a nice juice beef steak
17:53:35  <planetmaker> *juicy
17:54:01  <Quatroking> and little people walking around on the sidewalks
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18:32:12  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: problem is the only way to get the settings is to download the savegame
18:32:45  <Eddi|zuHause> which is really the same thing as joining
18:32:57  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Couldn't the server send a packet with (just) them on request?
18:33:17  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, it doesn't mean there couldn't be a packet which only sends the settings instead of the whole map
18:33:32  <planetmaker> FLHerne, but you would need to implement that :P
18:33:45  <planetmaker> (aka patches welcome)
18:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, fine, lets assume someone implemented that. next someone requests a filter "all servers with cargodist enabled"
18:34:26  <Eddi|zuHause> which can't be done because all servers would have to be queried first
18:34:53  <planetmaker> well, they would. so?
18:35:12  <planetmaker> alternatively the master server could be extended to keep that info
18:35:31  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the point of the way querying works right now is that each server sends out exactly one UDP package
18:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause> which fits exactly the version and md5 of the newgrfs
18:35:55  <Eddi|zuHause> anything additional to that would require switching to TCP
18:36:10  <Eddi|zuHause> which will increase load by orders of magnitude
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18:52:56  <Wolf01> hello
18:54:04  <Alberth> moin
19:00:44  <Wolf01> I found that if you use the vip points to get a discount when placing an order on the LEGO shop, you also get less vip points :/
19:01:15  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
19:01:22  <Alberth> spending less money == less vip, clearly :)
19:01:25  <Alberth> hi andy
19:02:10  <Wolf01> hi the
19:05:28  <frosch123> hi north
19:05:37  <Wolf01> oh finally
19:05:40  <Wolf01> with exo-suite I got a double amount of vip points, so I choose to not use them this time
19:06:54  <andythenorth> o/
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19:41:29  *** ginko_ is now known as ginko
19:41:31  <ginko> howdy
19:41:44  <Alberth> o/
19:48:36  <argoneus> ayy
19:49:16  <ginko> everybody alright? :)
19:53:53  <Alberth> ginko: nobody knows the answer to that question :p
19:54:21  <ginko> Just the usual "yes" will do fine ;)
19:54:35  <V453000> HELL YEAH
19:54:52  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not.
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20:04:24  <peter1138> I used to get my Lego from Beatties and the like.
20:04:35  <andythenorth> when there was such a thing
20:04:45  <peter1138> Yeah, I guess toy shops don't exist any more :(
20:04:55  <peter1138> Fucking supermarkets.
20:06:19  <peter1138> Gamleys as well.
20:08:28  <andythenorth> smyths
20:08:56  <peter1138> I guess there is Toys 'R' Us still, but that was more part of the problem :S
20:09:02  <andythenorth>
20:09:11  <andythenorth>
20:10:11  <peter1138> That... looks almost like a proper Lego spaceship.
20:12:33  <andythenorth> odd
20:16:36  <andythenorth> frick
20:16:39  * andythenorth broke the tests
20:16:40  <andythenorth> hate that
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20:51:21  <ginko> why aren't you allowed to build when game is paused?
20:51:52  <Taede> because you didnt enable the 'allow building when paused' setting
20:52:34  <ginko> Awesome!
20:55:05  <ginko> TY <3 :)
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21:32:16  <andythenorth> well
21:32:19  <andythenorth> that was easy
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21:43:36  <andythenorth> hrm
21:43:40  <andythenorth> the thing about 2x
21:43:43  <andythenorth> is that it looks nice
21:43:57  <andythenorth> otoh, when I’m playing I don’t really look at the graphics that much
21:44:02  <andythenorth> unless they suck
21:44:11  <andythenorth> too busy trying to beat the GS
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21:55:22  <Wolf01> 'night
21:55:28  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:59:35  <andythenorth> also
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22:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> ... there's pause to look at the graphics
22:07:46  <peter1138>
22:07:51  <peter1138> So... many bugs in that one? :p
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22:25:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose i should just stay out of certain people's way...
22:25:36  *** SHOTbyGUN [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:27:09  <planetmaker> :) Some people just ask for not receiving the feedback they could get
22:32:23  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:44:25  <ginko> what's the big difference between 2-track station and 2x1-track stations?
22:45:44  <frosch123> if you mean the graphics, then there is none
22:46:06  <planetmaker> good night
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23:06:23  <ginko> Can I change the location of my headquarters?
23:06:42  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
23:07:12  <ginko> But I can't bomb the old one away?
23:07:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you just build a new one
23:07:31  <Eddi|zuHause> the old one disappears
23:07:42  <ginko> :) Thank you
23:09:08  <ginko> Ah ok, in the Manager Tab is a Button for changing that... :)
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