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00:04:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:19 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d018fe2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 00:34:15 <mek42> is there still a two way block signal on the depot door? 00:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. unless you place a path signal nearby 01:42:25 <mek42> thanks 01:42:57 <mek42> sry for delayed gratitude - doing some home organization while waiting for money for small-medium track system 01:46:39 <Elyon> is there any way to specify negative pixel offsets in sprite layouts? 01:47:41 <mek42> Elyon: thank you for doing the kind of work that would prompt your question - sadly, at this point I'm just a player and have no idea 01:48:42 <Elyon> mek42: :D hopefully you will enjoy the further fruits of labour 01:50:04 <Elyon> anyway, I need a single sprite repeated / <- that way, using groundsprites, which means either I start from the top and need negative x offsets, or start from the left and need negative y offsets 02:01:41 <mek42> hmmm.... I had been getting bored, but it seems as though I've over-extended and am going to bankrupt myself - I have learned two major things this play though, I like UKRS, and I think 1825 is a good start date - early enough to have a chance to develop a shipping income before rail, late enough to make over extending once rail develops a real temptation 02:12:53 <mek42> if I have the cash to cover the purchase, what does "failure to auto-renew, money limit" mean? is there a max auto-renew / year limit? 02:14:18 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 02:17:31 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 02:21:40 <mek42> is there an easy way to reverse all of the one-way block signals on a stretch of track when you realize you made a small mistake? 02:24:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6C8FA.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 02:54:13 <Supercheese> ctrl+remove them, then ctrl+readd them in the proper direction 03:32:37 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 03:43:13 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:12:16 *** Haube [~Michi@ip25048c11.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:44 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 04:42:20 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:25 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Elyon: i'd assume 2-complement 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD49A1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD54AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:56:48 <Elyon> Eddi|zuHause: that'd make sense. I'll toy around with it 06:03:01 <Elyon> ah wonderful, `xoffset & 0xFF` works as expected in python 06:05:11 <V453000> morning :) 06:05:58 <Elyon> and you were right, it was 2's complement 06:06:02 <Elyon> hiya V453000 06:06:15 <V453000> hi :) 06:21:26 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:32:50 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:38:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6CCA4.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:38:31 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-184-87.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:43:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6C8FA.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:52:28 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:6cdc:2794:f59b:b2ce] has joined #openttd 07:29:30 <Elyon> does grfcodec load the image again for each sprite even if the sprites use the same image? 07:33:38 <Elyon> it seems it reloads the image for alternate (usually 32bpp) views 07:34:25 <Elyon> so instead of loading a 40 million pixel image once, it loads it 3072 times ... hrm. 08:40:39 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:41:08 <Wolf01> hi o/ 08:43:03 <Elyon> good morning! 08:46:00 <Elyon> so, about grfcodec ... is there any way to have it retain more images in memory? I just need two images there, really ... 08:46:22 <Elyon> compiling is slooow with reloading the same image over and over 09:31:34 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-184-87.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:31:56 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:34:20 <supermop> yo 09:36:32 <Elyon> hiya 09:37:12 <Elyon> hmm, is it normal behaviour for childsprites to be occasionally occluded by the tiles behind them, even when their groundsprite has 16x16x50 bounding box? 09:38:02 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause> if you make bounding boxes too large, or they overlap in weird ways, the algorithm can't figure out anymore how it is supposed to look 09:43:30 <peter1138> There is an ongoing bug in recent versions related to that. 09:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the problematic part in that is that if you fix the algorithm for your case, you probably break it for other cases 09:46:20 <peter1138> I meant to the flickering, not to impossible sorting. 09:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, yeah. that exists, too 09:51:35 <Elyon> well, the bounding box overlaps in very standard ways in that it's a 0,0,0 16,16,50 bb 09:53:04 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:53:22 <Elyon> should I try reducing zextent? 09:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> try in 1.4 first 09:53:58 <Elyon> or just wait for even more recent version to fix the flickering bug? 09:54:02 <Elyon> okay, hmm 09:54:03 <Eddi|zuHause> to make sure it's not the above bug 09:55:29 <Elyon> I'll look into it :) thanks 10:09:37 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:37 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:47 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 10:18:57 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:30:00 *** supermop 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[~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 12:26:25 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:43 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 12:32:26 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest805 12:32:31 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:34:23 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 12:37:02 *** Guest805 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d012520.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #openttd 12:41:35 <frosch123> Elyon: it is not a matter of bounding boxes 12:41:52 <frosch123> parent sprites must include enough transparency to cover the childsprites 12:42:02 <frosch123> since only the parent sprite is evaluated for clipping 12:42:10 <frosch123> maybe we should change that inside ottd 12:42:15 <frosch123> since so many people get it wrong 12:52:22 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has joined 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timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:11 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:25 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 17:00:50 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 17:00:53 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:01:05 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:20:25 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:f16d:3c7a:3ff5:b6bc] has joined #openttd 17:32:17 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:36:30 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:f16d:3c7a:3ff5:b6bc] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27113 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2015-01-05 17:45:15 UTC) 17:45:23 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:24 <DorpsGek> spanish - 1 changes by juanjo 17:46:07 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:47:11 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-5d820913.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:49:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A183EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:52:22 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 17:58:54 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 18:06:27 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:06:30 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:10:30 <planetmaker> good evening 18:12:52 <Taede> ello 18:22:24 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3243.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:29:04 <Alberth> evenink 18:31:34 <V453000> yooooo 18:32:29 <planetmaker> o/ 18:32:44 <planetmaker> happy new year everyone and so on :) 18:33:16 <Alberth> best wishes :) 18:35:34 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 18:36:39 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 18:42:25 *** tedjam [~tedjam@host-92-21-198-97.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 18:44:34 *** zwamkat [~zwamkat@535700EA.cm-6-8a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:44:40 *** zwamkat [~zwamkat@535700EA.cm-6-8a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 18:44:41 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 18:45:40 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 19:01:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:13:58 <andythenorth> o/ 19:14:07 <Alberth> o/ 19:14:21 <V453000> o/ 19:14:41 <V453000> andythenorth: CHIPS will soon get competition P 19:14:43 <V453000> :P 19:15:07 <andythenorth> game on 19:15:20 <V453000> and we will make it better! :D 19:15:52 <frosch123> V453000: andy has been looking for cats for quite some time 19:16:04 <V453000> =D 19:16:09 <V453000> true 19:17:40 <andythenorth> arenât they in PURR? 19:17:47 <andythenorth> that was my guess anyway 19:17:57 <andythenorth> but Iâd rather someone else looked for me 19:19:14 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:19:17 <V453000> no, cats are in NUTS 19:19:32 <V453000> and cats will be in CATS 19:19:41 <andythenorth> station sets suck 19:19:49 <andythenorth> the nfo is no fun 19:19:57 <andythenorth> and the cargo display is really stupid 19:20:00 <andythenorth> just saying 19:20:10 <V453000> Elyon seems to be doing some magic with python processing 19:20:23 <andythenorth> for python? 19:20:27 <andythenorth> oops, for nfo? 19:20:29 <V453000> for nfo 19:20:40 <V453000> also 19:20:47 <andythenorth> if he can write a parser-lexer to write out station nml he might as well fix nml for stations 19:20:57 <andythenorth> bah station nfo 19:21:04 * andythenorth should go and do other things 19:21:05 <andythenorth> biab 19:21:08 <V453000> he does some magic where cargo sprites show up on the platforms dynamically based on number of cargo on the platforms - supporting multiple cargoes on one platform 19:21:14 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.177.162.154.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 19:21:22 <V453000> XD cya 19:22:08 <Wolf01> andythenorth, purchased the volvo from lego :) 19:25:16 <Wolf01> http://reviews.lego.com/1360/499973/photo.jpg pfffft just noticed the size, I don't know where to place it :D 19:28:46 <frosch123> send it to andy 19:31:29 <Rubidium> talking about lego... did the lego leave Braunschweig? 19:34:55 <andythenorth> V453000: ? 19:35:16 <andythenorth> Wolf01: dig a hole with it, place it in the hole⊠19:35:20 <andythenorth> self-storing Lego 19:37:40 *** tedjam2 [~tedjam@host-92-21-198-97.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 19:38:04 *** shadowalker [~dark@le.shadownet.io] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:41:57 *** tedjam [~tedjam@host-92-21-198-97.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:43 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:f16d:3c7a:3ff5:b6bc] has joined #openttd 19:43:34 <Wolf01> I don't know if it could dig holes, usually they just load stuff from piles 19:44:48 *** JGR [~JGR@host86-135-49-135.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:44:55 *** JGR_ [~JGR@host86-135-49-135.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:45:11 *** JGR_ is now known as JGR 19:45:28 *** shadowalker [~dark@le.shadownet.io] has joined #openttd 19:53:23 <Elyon> for the record, it's she 19:56:22 <oskari89> https://wiki.openttd.org/Heightmap 19:56:53 <oskari89> Is there updated spec of heightmaps now available, since 255 height levels? 19:57:19 <Elyon> isn't it just a linear conversion? 19:58:08 <andythenorth> Elyon: hi :) sorry for assumed âheâ 19:58:20 <Elyon> not a worry in the world, and hi :) 19:58:28 <andythenorth> sweeping gender imbalance = wrong assumptions :P 19:58:53 <andythenorth> anyway, nml doesnât have stations. Nobody figured it out 19:58:59 <Elyon> mm. So anyway, I could have a look at porting stations to nml, BUUUT 19:59:01 <andythenorth> itâs probably the only big gap in nml 19:59:13 <Elyon> I have been using python for all of 4 days 19:59:27 <andythenorth> oic 19:59:48 <Alberth> oskari89: heights in the image are scaled to the max height you set in the map 19:59:56 <Elyon> it has kind of been my "blind spot", so I figured I'd generate CATS nfo stuff using python to learn both 20:00:15 <frosch123> oskari89: sea level is pure black, the rest is scaled lineary 20:00:35 <oskari89> Okay 20:01:12 <frosch123> oskari89: http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/4051ffa90aa8/src/heightmap.cpp#l367 20:01:29 <andythenorth> Elyon: are you generating nfo directly, or using a templating module? 20:01:39 <Elyon> directly 20:01:46 <oskari89> How about water on different height levels, higher than sea level = river (as auto generated on heightmaps) 20:01:56 <Elyon> well technically I wrote a templating module 20:02:06 <Alberth> oskari89: nope 20:02:30 <oskari89> :( 20:03:02 <frosch123> i wondered about not directly exposing the station spritelayout stuff to nml 20:03:16 <frosch123> but instead emulate the industry/house/object style spritegroups 20:03:20 <oskari89> Manyally placing rivers is such pain when there is 5-digit amount of lakes on scenario 20:03:23 <Alberth> you're welcome to implement the enhanced scenario idea oskari89 20:03:28 <oskari89> *manually 20:03:37 <frosch123> i.e. automatically generating the spritelayout callback and the spritelayout property 20:03:46 <andythenorth> that would be a relief 20:03:58 <andythenorth> I have real trouble understanding the station nfo 20:04:02 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:04:12 <andythenorth> maybe newgrf stations v2 :P 20:04:21 <Elyon> :p 20:04:25 <Alberth> newnewstations :) 20:04:31 <andythenorth> exactly 20:04:32 <Elyon> andythenorth, it goes something like this (excerpt): https://paste.openttdcoop.org/py3h1vbzk 20:04:38 <Elyon> newerstations 20:04:40 <Elyon> quickerstop 20:05:27 <andythenorth> newstations_v19_final_final_revised_final.doc 20:05:36 <Elyon> loving it 20:05:40 <andythenorth> ^ a classic pattern for people who donât have vcs 20:06:18 <oskari89> Overlaying of rivers could be second option when making scenario 20:06:43 <oskari89> (on a separate file after importing heightmap) 20:06:51 <Elyon> when I find myself without a vcs for whatever reason, I just have one copy properly named, and all copies named sequentially __0_cats.py, __1_cats.py etc. 20:07:11 <Elyon> anyway, what's inherently cumbersome/difficult regarding the current stations? 20:07:15 <frosch123> oskari89: https://wiki.openttd.org/Terkhen/Scenario_format 20:07:17 <Elyon> other than the fact you have to NFO it up? 20:08:11 <andythenorth> it appears to follow a quite different format to industries, houses 20:08:24 <andythenorth> or at least, I struggle to understand the station spec 20:08:31 <andythenorth> whereas industries are easy 20:08:40 <Elyon> hmm, well I haven't tried industries and only made nml houses 20:08:44 <andythenorth> someone else might know better than me 20:08:57 <andythenorth> I can barely edit CHIPS 20:09:06 <frosch123> i guess the most difficult part is the weirdness of tilelayouts (not spritelayouts) 20:09:24 <Elyon> yeah, I haven't gotten to those yet 20:09:29 <frosch123> industries have proper industry tiles, objects and houses do not have them 20:09:34 <frosch123> stations have them somewhat 20:09:57 <frosch123> but only 8, and they come with arbitrary implications 20:10:33 <andythenorth> apparently GRM enters the picture somehow also, or you need to manage compatibility with other sets 20:10:38 <andythenorth> but that might be FUD 20:11:02 <andythenorth> yexo and I got a lecture from OzTrans about it 20:11:13 <planetmaker> hm, I guess the lego awaits a re-use at the next re-union still 20:11:19 <planetmaker> ^ Rubidium 20:11:29 <Elyon> so uh ... sprite layouts lay out sprites in individual tiles, and tile layouts combine tiles to form "bigger" things, like the overpasses and stuff? 20:11:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: there is no GRM for stations 20:11:45 <andythenorth> hmm 20:11:51 * andythenorth wonders what goes on in CHIPS 20:11:56 <frosch123> the only still existing usecase for GRM are custom recolour sprite for vehicles 20:12:05 <frosch123> all other use cases are obsolete 20:13:18 <andythenorth> http://www.simuscape.net/simutalk/viewtopic.php?p=3328#p3328 20:13:36 <Elyon> I wish I could understand enough of the structure of grfcodec to have it save more than one sprite in memory (which is what it seems to me that it is doing currently) 20:13:41 <Elyon> s/sprite/sprite sheet 20:13:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: obsolete with advanced sprite layouts and extended action1 20:14:02 <andythenorth> hrm 20:14:10 <andythenorth> does CHIPS need recoding? :P 20:14:12 <andythenorth> probly not 20:14:16 <andythenorth> itâs kind of done and dead 20:14:52 <andythenorth> probably I should start CHIPS 2 20:15:10 <andythenorth> CHIPS is horribly 20:15:13 <andythenorth> horrible 20:15:19 <Elyon> that is a lot of horror 20:15:26 <andythenorth> yup 20:15:30 <frosch123> Elyon: nml is faster in encoding than grfcodec, maybe you can code an nfo frontend for nml :p 20:15:34 <Elyon> I've used it extensively 20:15:47 <Elyon> frosch123: oh, so nml doesn't just build nfo and call grfcodec? 20:15:57 <andythenorth> no 20:16:00 <planetmaker> it's two entirely different compilers 20:16:04 <Elyon> wonderful 20:16:06 <planetmaker> like msvc to gcc to clang 20:16:07 <andythenorth> although that route is possible, nml can output nfo 20:16:12 <andythenorth> and imho itâs faster 20:16:15 <andythenorth> currently 20:16:27 <andythenorth> that might change 20:16:32 <planetmaker> you probably didn't test in the last 3 months, andythenorth ;) 20:16:32 <Elyon> it's also built around the current design of ottd rather than endless extensions of grfcodec 20:16:42 <Elyon> I think? 20:16:56 <andythenorth> planetmaker: exactly not 20:17:04 <Elyon> anyway I found 3000 sprites to compile in ~5 seconds, and ~40 minutes when I added alternates 20:17:14 <andythenorth> have I missed an nml release? o_O 20:17:26 <frosch123> Elyon: yes, grfcodec can only process one file at a time 20:17:44 <Elyon> frosch123: makes aligning alternates a bit painful :/ 20:18:03 <frosch123> nml sorts the sprites per input file, and encodes them with opening each file only once, while not having to keep all files in memory 20:18:08 <Elyon> although in fairness, it /does/ make you precalculate offsets quite intensively 20:18:32 <Elyon> that sounds reasonable. So, nml stations it is. Eventually 20:18:42 <andythenorth> you can make multiple calls to grfcodec and link the result, but itâs really ugly 20:18:50 <frosch123> Elyon: if you have a useful intermediate format, we can patch nml to encode that instead 20:18:55 <planetmaker> dunno whether you missed frosch's performance commits, andythenorth :) 20:19:03 <frosch123> i just don't like implementing a nfo reader, since it is not lr1 20:19:04 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yes, reading devzone now 20:19:22 <andythenorth> I knew it was being done, but then silence here, or I was away :) 20:19:27 <frosch123> nfo is a horrible syntax to parse :) 20:19:38 <planetmaker> it probaby does not need entirely too much to teach stations to nml 20:19:39 <frosch123> planetmaker: well, i did not commit the multi-threading :p 20:19:46 <andythenorth> Iâll pull nml and compare later 20:19:54 <andythenorth> where is the speed gain? parsing? 20:20:06 <frosch123> no, sprite compression 20:20:08 <Elyon> frosch123: I have no useful intermediate format. I have a python library that generates generic nfo stuff, but only very specific features are implemented; ie. the ones we need in CATS 20:20:09 <andythenorth> ah 20:20:18 <frosch123> the other improvements are uncommitted 20:20:21 <andythenorth> someone had a much faster parser? Or did I imagine it? 20:20:43 <frosch123> uncommited: some minor speedups to encoding, parser cache, ... 20:21:43 <Elyon> is there a tentative spec for the nml stations other than http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Stations? 20:22:43 <Elyon> or to put it differently: is there anything I can do while I wait for cats sprites? :3 20:23:06 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1177885171.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 20:23:09 <dreck> hi 20:23:17 <Elyon> if nothing else then just toy around to gather experience about possible conundrums 20:23:21 <Elyon> hiya 20:23:34 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2746 <-- there's this ancient issue, Elyon. But... as you see it's ancient and certainly it will need re-consideration 20:23:47 <planetmaker> or rather further thought 20:23:54 <dreck> hows you elyon? 20:23:58 <dreck> interesting nick too even 20:24:05 <Elyon> ? 20:24:13 <Elyon> pm: hmm... 20:25:04 <Elyon> well, that seems a bit old, yes. Although you don't want an interface for the nfo, but rather a further abstraction than what we see with houses/industries, yes? 20:25:38 <Elyon> dreck: I'm fine, thanks. You? 20:25:59 <dreck> doing ok..still trying sort a few different things out but mm eh 20:26:03 <planetmaker> there's nothing newer. And it's a start. And yes: an abstraction like for houses/industries is what will be nice 20:26:38 <Elyon> mhm 20:26:41 <Elyon> hmm 20:27:30 <dreck> theres always that group grf project I still need to do a bit more of but meh it can always wait 20:27:41 <Elyon> nml implementations are not subsets of what can be achieved with nfo, right? 20:27:56 <Elyon> dreck, oh and which one is that? 20:28:56 <planetmaker> Elyon, nml needs to create a valid grf. Thus yes: nml can never do more than nfo. However nfo might require much more code lines 20:28:58 <frosch123> that comparison does not work 20:29:10 <frosch123> with nfo you can achieve everything by definition 20:29:26 <Elyon> but I stated /subset/, not /superset/ 20:29:31 <frosch123> the goal of nml to achieve everything meaningful :) 20:29:37 <Elyon> is nml intended to provide /exactly/ the same functionality eventually? 20:29:41 <Elyon> ah, okay 20:29:55 <Elyon> so deprecated/obsolete stuff is not implemented? 20:30:03 <frosch123> nml lacks various minor things of various features 20:30:19 <Elyon> such as ability to define new sprites or add vehicles 20:30:21 <Elyon> >_> 20:30:22 <Elyon> <_< 20:30:27 <frosch123> some things are handled automatically and not directly available to the user 20:30:59 <frosch123> for example: nml does not allow to reserve vehicle ids via grm since that is obsolete 20:31:11 <frosch123> nml does not allow encoding grfs with version != 8, since those are obsolete 20:31:24 <Elyon> mm, that makes sense 20:31:37 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:31:47 <frosch123> nml does not implement the newer vehicle capacity system, since noone came up with a decent syntax 20:31:58 <andythenorth> thereâs a newer one? o_O 20:32:08 <dreck> elyon well its basically a 'lite' japan set .. although someone did draw a few random individual sprites for usa too 20:32:10 <andythenorth> oh two different cbs? 20:32:23 <frosch123> andythenorth: i can link you to the two pretty pictures again :) 20:32:28 <Elyon> dreck, what kind of set? 20:32:33 <Elyon> full set? 20:32:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: etched into my brain already 20:32:54 <andythenorth> not an actual representation 20:32:58 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleRefitting <- 2.1 is the old one, 2.2. is the newer one 20:32:59 <andythenorth> more like two spiders, fighting 20:33:14 <andythenorth> yeah, fighting spiders 20:33:24 <Elyon> :D 20:33:35 <Elyon> for a db structure, it's not too bad 20:33:47 <Elyon> but as a flowchart ... hrm 20:34:06 <dreck> elyon full set but with a simplified trainset aside to localized industries 20:34:35 <dreck> frosch heh interesting wiki page 20:34:46 <Elyon> dreck, alright, sounds like quite a project 20:35:24 <dreck> elyon not that much really. the only problem is its slow to get all the multi-piece sprites finished (and I'm not the one drawing due to little luck with diagonals on too many things myself heh) 20:35:35 <frosch123> Elyon: 2.2. is my try of fixing the bugs with vehicle capacities and refitting. i achieved making it consistent, but i failed with making it easier :p 20:36:20 <Elyon> relevantees: so, uhm, who or what or huh will a less ancient/vague specification make? 20:36:39 <Elyon> frosch123, well consistency is pretty darn important 20:36:47 <andythenorth> hmm, I should really scrap CHIPS, itâs rubbish. nml stations would be just what I needed.... 20:38:31 <Elyon> I was half tempted earlier to try and write some rudimentary grf compiler due to that ~40 minute compile time. I'd much rather work with nml, even if it turns out not-at-all fruitful 20:38:51 <Elyon> worst case, I'll get some experience. Best case, you'll be one step closer to having nml station support :3 20:38:52 * dreck is sticking to nfo for apparent compatibility reasons (but to our own) 20:39:17 <Elyon> you have a choice? 20:41:24 <dreck> not really 20:41:24 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 20:44:25 <V453000> dreck who will create such sprites? :0 20:44:31 <V453000> "full set" 20:45:42 <planetmaker> dreck, what set requires nfo still? 20:48:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth, chips is anything but rubbish. It's my favourite station set when it comes to quickly eye-candying stations 20:48:13 <andythenorth> /me is thinking what needs redesigned 20:48:24 <planetmaker> there's no other station set with a similar ease-to-use to effect ratio 20:48:49 <andythenorth> first plan for next version is to offer individual tiles for every supported cargo type 20:48:59 <andythenorth> Iâm not sure if I can hide tiles in a game based on available cargos though 20:49:00 <planetmaker> isr is nice, but you spend ages clicking together your favourite stations. too much choice really ;) 20:49:15 <andythenorth> having lots of tiles for non-available cargos would be ugly 20:49:41 <planetmaker> you can change availability based on that, I'd think 20:49:46 <planetmaker> thus effectively hide them 20:50:03 <andythenorth> second idea is to offer three versions of each tile 20:50:08 <planetmaker> local_param = cargo_available("LABL") 20:50:24 <andythenorth> low / medium / high capacity version of each tile 20:50:26 <planetmaker> if (local_param == 1) { 20:51:17 <planetmaker> err.... if (local_param != 1) { item(STATION, tile_id) { properties: { climate: 0; } } } 20:51:19 <planetmaker> or something 20:51:58 <andythenorth> he 20:52:25 <andythenorth> so CHIPS is really nice and easy to use, but in a game it looks hideous when a station has more than one cargo 20:52:40 <andythenorth> constantly flipping between cargos, and looks worse on large stations 20:52:57 <Elyon> cats will be a contender there, possibly 20:53:03 <andythenorth> and the visual indicator for amounts waiting is barely useful 20:53:13 <Elyon> if/when we get it done 20:53:15 <andythenorth> because the information content of that varies so much by station 20:53:39 <andythenorth> some stations 50t waiting is a lot, some stations 1000t waiting is not much at all 20:53:59 <dreck> v453000 or can I still say mr.nut (heh?) a few different people actually. and planetmaker I still don't see anything in the tt threads/wiki about nml compatibility at all so with that in mind the sole choice was obvious anyway 20:54:17 <dreck> andythenorth well I guess it depends on player..to me if the station has 1000t then theres clearly something too wrong with the train routing 20:54:26 <Elyon> not really 20:54:31 <andythenorth> yes it depends exactly on player 20:54:31 <Elyon> could be a transfer station 20:54:36 <Elyon> or anything really 20:54:40 <andythenorth> or anything 20:54:42 <dreck> elyon..a transfer station would have a pickup waiting :) 20:54:43 <Elyon> maybe you want to amass the limit of cargo 20:54:54 <Elyon> I wouldn't know, I don't play much :D 20:55:28 <Elyon> anyway at some point between gamestart and gameend you're bound to have stations amassing cargo 20:55:49 <dreck> oh and I dunno whats with the complain about isr...I just select one menu..click on station then its size...click it down and thats it 20:55:50 <planetmaker> dreck, nml needs no compatibility with anything... it simply implements the grf specs... 20:55:56 <dreck> elyon...not me 20:55:56 <Elyon> having a perfectly balanced system from the get-go can be tricky, especially for casual players 20:55:59 <planetmaker> not sure what compatibility you talk about at all 20:56:10 <planetmaker> but your choice to waste time on nfo :) 20:56:10 <V453000> dreck: which people? :D 20:56:24 * planetmaker only knows one relevant person who still codes in nfo :P 20:56:33 <dreck> planetmarker then how come I can't even find it ANYWHERE in here? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=53 20:56:41 <dreck> so hence there is indeed a compatibility issue 20:56:49 <Elyon> what can't you find, again? 20:56:58 <dreck> v453000 others working on the grf together with me? :) 20:57:10 <V453000> that is obvious but who :) 20:57:11 <dreck> they're not really on the forum either tho 20:57:22 <andythenorth> eh? quite a few people still code in nfo 20:57:42 <andythenorth> pikka, snail, MB 20:57:43 <andythenorth> at leat 20:57:45 <andythenorth> least * 20:57:49 <planetmaker> dreck, transport tycoon does not support *any* grf. So what should be about nml in that section? 20:57:52 <V453000> andythenorth: that just represents their sanity XD 20:58:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth, exactly one of those three is relevant ;) 20:58:04 <dreck> oh yeah I almost forgot andy..pikka's wiki finally works again..about due time 20:58:11 <dreck> planetmaker..it does support *nfo* grf 20:58:14 <V453000> as pm said 20:58:14 <andythenorth> I thought heâd delete it 20:58:16 <dreck> but nml isn't anywhere to be found 20:58:18 <planetmaker> dreck, wrong ;) 20:58:22 <andythenorth> pikka wiki is kind of dead afaik 20:58:32 <planetmaker> TT(D) does not support any grfs 20:58:45 <dreck> andythenorth...yeah..its nice to be able to check the ukrs2 vehicles without having to run an empty map with cheat on to find out when a loco came out etc 20:58:45 <Rubidium> lies! 20:58:45 <Elyon> the patch might be what you're thinking of? 20:58:45 <V453000> pikka wiki shall get fixeth once it becomes enough of a priority :D 20:58:52 <frosch123> if you mean ttdp, which has a different forum, it only supports grf version 7 20:58:56 <planetmaker> ok, 5 grfs. But no newgrfs. 20:59:09 <frosch123> so, yes, nml indeed requires ottd 1.2, and does not work with ttdp 20:59:22 <planetmaker> oh, you spoil it, frosch123 ;) 20:59:39 <andythenorth> if you need to support TTDP, you do need nfo 20:59:42 <Rubidium> though grfcodec can easily make grfs that aren't compatible with ttd/ttdp 20:59:45 <dreck> andy...mind you I don't care if the wiki never gets updated...just as long as at least the ukrs2/etc vehicle list is accessible again 20:59:46 <andythenorth> it was a choice I had to make 21:00:10 <V453000> does anybody even play TTDP still? :0 21:00:17 <dreck> funny enough the separate ukrs1 site is still up (its a different host) 21:00:22 <andythenorth> V453000: yes 21:00:28 <andythenorth> legions of people 21:00:33 <andythenorth> due to superior features 21:00:44 <frosch123> anyway, most modern nfo grfs like pikka's and isr do not work in ttdp either 21:01:10 <dreck> eh? I have isr and it works fine (although its date is a bit old...might be why) 21:01:30 <planetmaker> isr > 0.9.x is OpenTTD only 21:02:10 <Elyon> wow I really need nickcolors 21:02:16 <dreck> andythenorth..I wouldn't always call it "superior" but yeah there seem to be tons of helpful things that ottd still has not copied like being able to curve tracks right from the bridge instead of after the bridgehead .. or the nice advanced signals .. etc 21:02:33 <andythenorth> superior physics 21:02:34 <dreck> at least I guess ottd does have some other things better tho 21:02:41 <andythenorth> buildable tunnel heads 21:02:43 <andythenorth> stuff 21:02:48 <andythenorth> I dunno, never even see it 21:02:53 <andythenorth> everything I have is hearsay 21:02:56 <dreck> oh I almost forgot...track on top of tunnel portal..yeah I had to do that at times 21:03:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: stop making fun of the physics 21:03:20 <planetmaker> no, he's right. Physics is superior ;) 21:03:25 * Elyon suddenly recalls someone "translating" openttd en-gb and substituting every instance of "OpenTTD" with "Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe" 21:03:27 <planetmaker> And it's fun 21:04:21 <frosch123> planetmaker: too much involvement with real life, i prefer maths 21:04:39 <planetmaker> :) 21:04:47 <frosch123> too much realism in physics 21:04:59 <planetmaker> yeah, it's pesky on that end indeed 21:05:28 <planetmaker> though if you get to string theory, the 'realism' part can be debated, too ;) 21:05:45 <planetmaker> But then, that's just math anyway :P 21:05:46 <Rubidium> luckily the vast majority of numbers in maths are not real ;) 21:05:47 <dreck> elyon heh..I've changed a few internal messages myself just out of humor. nothing that I would really want to release to anyone else tho. like how about "Are you trying to drown something else?" instead of the default "Can't raise land here" 21:06:44 *** tedjam2 [~tedjam@host-92-21-198-97.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:08:05 <dreck> oh yeah..when will anyone reprogram the waypoint to work on diagonal tracks or hmm yeah :-> 21:08:21 <Elyon> it's /open/ttd 21:08:30 <Elyon> you're free to patch it yourself :3 21:08:46 <Rubidium> when someone figured out how to rotate graphics by 45 degrees without making them look ugly as hell? 21:08:47 <dreck> I'll rather deal with one kind of code.. not two so I'll pass :-> 21:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: even though the real numbers are so abundant, it's actually really hard to find one (that is not also in a much simpler class of numbers) 21:08:59 <dreck> rubidium then why have diagonal trains at all? :) 21:08:59 <Elyon> one kind of code, psh 21:09:34 <Rubidium> dreck: because someone decided, in the 1990s, to draw 8 orientations of (some) vehicles 21:09:48 <Elyon> wouldn't every factor of pi be a real number without being a rational one? 21:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> almost all numbers that humans ever used are algebraic (including some non-real ones) 21:10:06 <Rubidium> but that same person decided that stations are only to be drawn in 4 orientations (or for some only 2 or even 1) 21:10:06 <dreck> well...signals are diagonal :) 21:10:08 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, finding non-real numbers is easy... 21:10:14 <dreck> eddi...heh yeah :) 21:10:53 <dreck> typical dices have six sides .. but there are a few other types for specific games/countries too tho 21:11:21 <dreck> the ones with 14+ sides just....seem crazy .. like you have to throw them gentilely to avoid it rolling a long way :) 21:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: but with these dices you can only ever find natural numbers 21:11:41 <Elyon> 14? 21:11:54 <Rubidium> regardless, there not being graphics is a major problem for other orientations... 21:11:58 <Elyon> that seems... an unwieldy number for a die 21:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: typical dices come in 4,6,8,10,12 and 20 21:12:03 <dreck> elyon one sec.. 21:12:10 <Elyon> dices? 21:12:23 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you forgot the coin 21:12:27 <Elyon> I can agree to one dice, but not two dices 21:12:29 <Elyon> :p 21:12:37 <planetmaker> I've recently seen a D3, too 21:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: true, but that's usually not called a dice :) 21:12:47 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 21:13:03 <frosch123> planetmaker: a D6 with same number on opposite sides? or something more fancy? 21:13:03 <Rubidium> frosch123: most coins fall in the 14+ category 21:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> or die? 21:13:10 <Elyon> the coin has an ill-defined number of discrete sides, as well 21:13:18 <dreck> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Wuerfel5.jpg look at the blue and shiny green one for example 21:13:26 <planetmaker> frosch123, much more fancy. Like a D4 but with one side rounded 21:13:40 <dreck> although that light blue one with multiply numbers to one face is odd 21:14:03 <frosch123> ah, well, i prefer the 2xD10 with two colours, instead of the pure D100 21:14:14 <frosch123> the D100 is hard to roll, and hard to read 21:14:23 <planetmaker> yup, my "D100" is also two D10 21:14:27 <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: the green in the background is a D12, and the blue and the transparent green one are both D20 21:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "D100" seems really impractical :p 21:14:56 <planetmaker> and the left light blue one is a D4 21:15:15 <planetmaker> the number at the base is what counts 21:15:42 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, indeed it is. Yet I've once seen one. Very impractical 21:16:05 <frosch123> i assume i already told the story of my colour-blind brother being surprised by my dice with no dots at all... 21:16:10 <Elyon> meh, reserved/keywords :( :( 21:16:22 <Elyon> I want `station.class = station_class` 21:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't think i heard that 21:16:31 <planetmaker> he, I don't think either 21:16:44 <frosch123> i have really pretty red dice with black sparkles and green dots 21:16:44 <dreck> about numbers..I think I've seen at least one game that had two "matched" dices .. one had a range of number and other had unique range of its own numbers too (eg 4 would be only on first dice and 9 on only other one) 21:16:53 <dreck> not sure what people really call that sort of weirdo 21:17:03 <frosch123> and my brother asked me, what's the point of dice without any numbers or dots :p 21:17:24 <Elyon> at least they're not invisible, etc. 21:17:29 <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: you can have all sorts of things on the dice 21:17:44 <dreck> about colored dices...take a old rube cube and bash it apart .. and there you go you got 10+ different color-only dices to play with? :P 21:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> games use all sorts of symbols on D6 21:18:06 <dreck> hmm what was the name? I know it was 'r-something cube' 21:18:12 <frosch123> rubicks 21:18:21 <dreck> duh..goes to show how I never ever tried play these things ^ 21:18:35 <frosch123> i can solve the 3x3 one 21:18:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i never seriously tried to solve one 21:18:56 <frosch123> the 2x2 is a bitch, the 4x4 and 5x5 ones i did not even try 21:19:16 <frosch123> i think there was even a 12 sided one 21:19:33 <dreck> I do like blokus tho :) any sizes is fine with me 21:19:36 <Elyon> 5x5 is supposedly pretty unstable 21:19:51 <dreck> the 3D version someone had (and I've played it with him a few times) is a bit amusing to say the least 21:20:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the general strategy to solve these things is to pick two fields that you want to flip, while everything else stays the same 21:20:28 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 21:20:45 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the 3x3 one has 2 and 3-cycles 21:21:46 <frosch123> so, you need to know the 3-cycle moves in both directions, or execute them twice 21:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a proof that for any constellation of a 3x3 cube, you can solve it in 20 moves 21:22:21 <Elyon> 20, now? last I heard was 21 21:22:28 <frosch123> oh, i can create a constellation that is unsolvable :p 21:22:28 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 21:22:30 <Elyon> and I believe the 'proof' is just bruteforce exhaustion 21:22:43 <frosch123> like the class 20-19 puzzle, or how was it called? 21:23:00 <frosch123> *classic 21:23:08 <dreck> heh eddi...I can't recall where it came from but I remember someone stated that after a long time using an automated screen app to do it...he tested every single Freecell games in windows... 21:23:12 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: sure, there are "illegal" constellations when you take it apart and put it back together 21:23:23 <dreck> and not surprisingly he came to one that could -not- even be solved at all as the aces were all the way in the back etc 21:23:40 <dreck> I dunno why I remember this now ^ 21:23:54 <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: sure, it's easy to construct such an unsolvable game. 21:24:15 <frosch123> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Rubik%27s_cube%2C_variations_2%C3%972%C3%972_-_7%C3%977%C3%977.jpg/1024px-Rubik%27s_cube%2C_variations_2%C3%972%C3%972_-_7%C3%977%C3%977.jpg <- oh, there are even 6x6 and 7x7 21:24:22 <frosch123> the 7x7 looks fancy 21:24:59 <__ln___> i'd prefer 1x1 for simplicity 21:26:01 <dreck> oh wikipedia says there appears to be at least eight 21:26:22 <dreck> thats not a surprise tho 21:26:27 <frosch123> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zauberw%C3%BCrfel#Varianten <- that also features the 12 sided ones 21:27:06 <Elyon> is there any downside to having all your sprites in one spriteset? 21:27:27 *** mgpl_ [~mgpl@176-58-16-246.net.e-cho.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:27:35 <dreck> elyon if your filesize is over 60+ lines long..it could get a bit dense to upload/download basically? 21:27:42 <dreck> thats the only thing I can think of 21:27:45 <Elyon> what? 21:27:49 <Elyon> filesize, lines? 21:28:00 <Elyon> the twine are not related 21:28:02 <dreck> well its only a few sprites per line no? 21:28:32 <Elyon> I'm already doing 3700+ sprites in one set and that seems fine, I'm just wondering if I will have any issues down the line 21:28:35 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:51 <Elyon> and what does upload/download have to do with it? 21:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Elyon: the usual problem with binary files is that you cannot have line-based diffs, but have to replace the whole file each time you change a single pixel 21:29:05 <Elyon> hmm, true 21:29:13 <dreck> eddi..ah yes..the update problem too...I almost forgot 21:29:35 <frosch123> Elyon: you can only have 64k sprites in one spriteset :p and you cannot use the little/lots spriteset selection 21:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and you're usually changing only a few sprites at a time 21:29:41 <Elyon> but compile-time problems notwithstanding - any performance/similar issues I might run into? 21:30:12 <Elyon> frosch123: little/lots is not precise enough for what I'm doing anyway - and I assume the cap is 65,536? 21:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is what 64k means 21:30:36 <Elyon> hmm ... I don't think we'll be hitting that. should be ~10,000, tops 21:30:37 <dreck> this almost sounds like normal programming suggestions...use several multiply small/medium sized chunks than one big fat chunk .. etca 21:30:43 <Elyon> 64Ki would mean that, I think? 21:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody uses that 21:31:05 <Elyon> >:( 21:31:14 <frosch123> Elyon: unless you use register offsets, the limit may even be 8k 21:31:20 <Elyon> I use yottagrammes in my gamedev 21:31:36 <Elyon> frosch123, hmm. That could potentially become an issue 21:31:49 <Elyon> is there any downside to having 10,000 spritesets then? :D 21:31:51 <frosch123> the action0 spritelayout can only take numbers up to 8k i think 21:31:57 <frosch123> after that you need to use registers 21:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Elyon: why would you use an abbreviation and then make it longer for no reason? 21:32:17 <frosch123> Elyon: you cannot choose from 10k spritesets easily 21:32:24 <Elyon> the k abbreviation is usually understood to be kilo, though, right? 21:32:28 <Elyon> km, kg etc. 21:32:48 <frosch123> in this context it is binary kilo, so maybe "ki"? 21:32:50 <Elyon> frosch123: the sprites may possibly all be used in the same layout 21:33:15 <frosch123> one layout can use 4 spritesets at once at max 21:33:18 <Elyon> binary 'kilo' is still pretty vague - hence apple harddrives of 250GB are only 250,000,000,000 bytes 21:33:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Elyon: i've never seen a context where it wasn't clear which base of k was meant, except for drive manufacturers which do not stick to the convention for marketing reason 21:33:35 <frosch123> and that actually comes with a performance impact, though not sure whether it is relevant 21:33:45 <frosch123> since the sprites are resolved for 4 differen var10 values 21:33:47 <Elyon> yeah, well ... I'm just being picky. I know you meant 2^10 21:33:55 <Elyon> s/picky/explicit 21:34:02 <Elyon> :D 21:34:36 <Elyon> D: 21:34:40 <frosch123> oh, and you run into the custom foundation conflict 21:34:47 <Elyon> hmm ... 21:34:58 <frosch123> so, 10k per spriteset is better than 10k spritesets in about every case :p 21:35:10 <Elyon> roger! 21:35:48 <andythenorth> meh 21:35:57 * andythenorth waits for a back up to back up 21:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause> # back down for what (*crash*) 21:37:00 <andythenorth> :P 21:37:38 <andythenorth> yesterday I saw behaviour that almost is an early smell of corrupt boot volume 21:37:47 <dreck> :) 21:37:49 <andythenorth> today I found that one of my two backups is dead dead dead dead :P 21:38:07 <dreck> if you have a crash with no back to it....you're missing some prior procedures you were supposed to do :) 21:38:15 <andythenorth> so now I have to sit and watch 450GB copy over slow USB 3 21:38:24 <andythenorth> to a slow piece of spinning glass 21:39:34 <frosch123> you can always ask the nsa for the backup 21:39:44 <andythenorth> this is true 21:39:51 <andythenorth> do they have a postal address? 21:39:58 <andythenorth> or can I just tweet? 21:40:28 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 21:41:56 <planetmaker> both works fine 21:42:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6CCA4.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:45:01 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 21:46:44 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has joined #openttd 21:47:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: just leave a post-it on your desk 21:47:47 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has quit [] 21:48:31 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has joined #openttd 21:49:20 <dreck> heh 21:50:45 <andythenorth> I donât have a desk 21:50:54 <andythenorth> am I exempt? 21:51:11 <Elyon> okay, since I don't know the first thing about the nml lexer/parser, I'm just going to generalise this nfo library to deal with all station properties 21:51:53 <Elyon> that way maybe it'll actually be useful to others until such time as nml <- stations 21:53:16 <planetmaker> good night 21:53:23 <Elyon> good night :) 21:53:33 <andythenorth> if it handles similar cases to CHIPS, might be interesting 21:53:39 <andythenorth> all my other compiles are python 21:54:23 <Elyon> well ideally it would handle everything considered "not deprecated" or possibly just "not obsolete" 21:55:03 <Elyon> albeit not meant as any sort of replacement for nml stations 21:56:55 <andythenorth> 407GB of 450GB done :P 21:56:59 * andythenorth wants to go to bed 21:57:02 <Elyon> \o/ 21:57:12 <andythenorth> phew, at least my microsoft IE VMs are backed up :P 21:57:24 <andythenorth> wouldnât want to lose those and have to freely download them again 21:57:40 <andythenorth> also all my repos, thanks goodness, and my local copy of dropbox 21:57:49 <andythenorth> and my gmail, which I never read 21:58:16 <frosch123> yeah, the nsa should really get more customer oriented 21:58:20 <andythenorth> and my OS, which is only available for free, on the internet 21:58:21 <frosch123> and tell you if there is an important mail 21:58:38 <andythenorth> frosch123: thatâs the kind of service government should stay out of 21:58:49 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-95-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:58:52 <andythenorth> impedes private enterprise 21:58:57 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:59:12 <frosch123> aw, no competition? 21:59:20 <andythenorth> state can cheat 21:59:26 <andythenorth> especially the nsa 21:59:34 <andythenorth> also, I know if there was an important mail, because someone phones me 21:59:59 <frosch123> well, at least they don't walk by :p 22:00:27 <andythenorth> the ones that can walk by donât bother emailing 22:00:35 <andythenorth> email is dead 22:00:44 <andythenorth> just doesnât know it yet 22:00:56 <frosch123> you do not have email postmen? 22:01:30 <frosch123> i know many who visit my desk and start with "i just sent you a mail" 22:01:32 <andythenorth> ho, maybe I should make a tedious electronic messaging grf 22:01:38 <frosch123> i believe i have done it myself as well :p 22:01:47 <andythenorth> deliver 10k tweets to frodinghampton 22:01:58 <andythenorth> deliver 1000t of email to gobblebridge 22:02:25 <Elyon> :D 22:02:36 <andythenorth> âAll MSN industries announce imminent closure' 22:02:37 <frosch123> yeah, but the udp vehicles suck 22:02:44 <frosch123> they have not increased capacity for years 22:03:43 <andythenorth> such larks 22:03:50 <andythenorth> ha backup completed 22:03:55 <andythenorth> tfft 22:04:04 <frosch123> would you include an refactoring plant? 22:04:20 <andythenorth> IFTT? 22:04:33 <andythenorth> https://ifttt.com 22:04:43 <frosch123> or is bidirectional code transport between them too boring? 22:05:08 <andythenorth> I think itâs an under-rated game mechanic 22:11:02 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 22:15:51 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3243.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 22:20:08 <andythenorth> also bye 22:20:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 22:23:52 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:33:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A183EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:59 <Elyon> okay hmm, I might just go with injecting raw NFO for varaction2/advanced 22:45:35 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:45:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:04:46 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1177885171.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [] 23:10:27 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:11:15 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d012520.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 23:12:16 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:6cdc:2794:f59b:b2ce] has quit [Quit: .] 23:15:16 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:58 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 23:16:13 *** CaduTerra [~cadu@2804:538:0:113:9423:b034:e789:9b65] has joined #openttd 23:17:08 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:17:13 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [] 23:17:47 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 23:19:05 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:52 *** CaduTerra [~cadu@2804:538:0:113:9423:b034:e789:9b65] has quit [] 23:54:08 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]