Log for #openttd on 31st January 2015:
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00:11:21  <Izaya> Hello o/
00:11:38  <Izaya> So I have a question.
00:11:44  <Izaya> ohwait
00:11:53  <naliao> question
00:11:57  <Izaya> I'm an idiot, you can't use X11 forwarding on Windows
00:11:59  <Izaya> Never mind.
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00:14:33  <Izaya> Right then, I'm off- I might be back, depending on whether OpenTTD likes running over X11 forwarding over ssh.
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00:21:17  <Izaya> So OpenTTD works over ssh-forwarded X11
00:21:28  <dreck> st2 I doubt that weed in openttd is a good idea considering the polarized issues behind it in several countries, right? ;)
00:22:17  <Izaya> The software cursor makes it difficult to play, though.
00:22:32  <Izaya> Even over a 10/100 ethernet link it's slow
00:22:50  <dreck> izaya what res you using?
00:23:05  <Izaya> I think it was 800x600
00:23:56  <dreck> hmm well 800x600 with simple grf shouldn't had been much problem in theory..I'm not sure what to actually tell you sorry
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00:24:43  <ST2> dreck: yeah, actually only 1st suggestion (temperate for tobacco) was reliable :)
00:25:16  <dreck> st2 indeed..and it could be resold as GOOD aka boxed sets of cigars stacked into a crate and shipped that way :)
00:25:29  <ST2> maybe on tropic too (like lumber mills)
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00:26:47  <ST2> but lets keep only temperate population with lung cancer ^^
00:26:54  <Izaya> From what I gather, there's no way to disable the software cursor without modifying the source and rebuilding?
00:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not
00:28:45  <dreck> st2 lol..well I'm not implying smoking..just looking at all sorts of organic industries/cargos that could fit into the limits of the industry+cargotype system plus traingrfs :)
00:31:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i think tobacco is mostly grown in central america, which i would probably put in subtropic
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00:37:45  <dreck> thanks I'll think about what you two said :)
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01:19:47  <dreck> wb st2
01:20:59  <ST2> thx :)
01:21:07  <dreck> what doing atm?
01:21:14  <ST2> had to restart the server where bouncer is :S
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01:33:23  * dreck bounces st2 to another place? :P
01:33:24  <dreck> heh
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01:49:49  <ST2> sorry dreck, was busy banning couple players, sadly :(
01:51:10  <ST2> many players think that because OpenTTD is free and opensource they can do whatever they want in online servers :(
01:51:40  <ST2> a sad mentality :S
01:59:29  <dreck> st2 theres a lot of things that belong only to singleplayer maps but idiots seem to never realize this more than often
01:59:41  <dreck> so I guess you're busy watching maps atm?
02:02:36  <ST2> all peacefull now - sadly talk didn't worked, so a big tempban did (IP's change anyway ^^)
02:03:50  <dreck> :)
02:07:42  <dreck> I'm just about to take a break soon...kinda enough typings+websites for this night
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07:43:35  <supermop> hmm a problem with animating doors on trains
07:44:16  <supermop> is that if single sided platforms before the norm in newgrfs, there is no way for the train to know which side to open doors on
07:44:56  <supermop> and doors opening on the wrong side looks more bizarre than having double sided platforms everywhere
07:45:15  <supermop> *become te norm
07:45:17  <supermop> the
08:05:18  <peter1138> Yes but...
08:05:21  <peter1138> They're not.
08:05:27  <peter1138> The gap's too wide.
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08:27:31  <Wolf01> hi o/
08:31:16  <Alberth> moin
08:45:08  <supermop> wide gap doesnt look bad in station if it's paved or gravel
08:45:35  <supermop> its the copious grass that makes the gap so jarring
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09:32:56  <NGC3982> Morning.
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10:07:08  <Alberth> /me welcomes andy with a lot of trompets
10:09:16  <Wolf01> just finished to trash a lorry full of plastic and boxes to find space for the new lego sets
10:09:32  <Wolf01> and I think more stuff will take the trip to the ceiling
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10:13:58  <Alberth> attic :)
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10:14:47  <Wolf01> no, ceiling... I'm piling up the boxes in a corner ;)
10:15:20  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you mean heaven :)
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10:23:22  <andythenorth> o/
10:23:43  <andythenorth> don’t keep the boxes :P
10:25:12  <Wolf01> eh, I need the boxes to put stuff in (not the lego ones, those are stuffed with other lego boxes until full and develop their own gravity force)
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10:52:44  <andythenorth> eh
10:52:55  * andythenorth learns about standard economic classifications again :P
10:53:56  <andythenorth> all the FIRS ‘town’ industries are tertiary
10:54:11  <andythenorth> so naming them that way
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11:17:19  * andythenorth does ‘marketing'
11:22:42  <NGC3982> :o
11:22:46  <Alberth> steel cargo at the iron works looks great
11:24:29  <Alberth> enjoying your BB game? :)
11:24:39  <andythenorth> need to get back to it
11:24:50  <andythenorth> I am playing with an outdated version, so the bugs are bugging me
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11:29:49  <Alberth> o/
11:39:31  <frosch123> \o
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12:05:27  <andythenorth> how are eints translators approved?
12:07:24  <Alberth> Looks like you have to make an issue at devzone  3rd bullit
12:07:36  <Alberth> bullet?
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12:15:36  <frosch123>
12:16:00  <frosch123> but usually what albert said :)
12:16:48  <andythenorth> so me / someone just needs to approve Brumi?
12:17:16  <frosch123> an admin can add a person to a translator group, which gives translation access to all participating projects
12:17:53  <andythenorth> I have admin
12:18:22  <frosch123> then go to admin->groups, and add a user
12:18:40  <andythenorth> ok he’s in
12:18:57  * andythenorth assumes FIRS inherits
12:19:42  <andythenorth> yeah
12:20:46  <frosch123> what did you do?
12:20:53  <frosch123> does not look correct to me
12:21:34  <frosch123> ah, you added him to "newgrf project"
12:21:40  <frosch123> that excludes him from game scripts
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12:22:44  <frosch123> <- that would have been the place
12:23:01  <frosch123> administration->groups->hungarian->users
12:23:12  <frosch123> it's not specific to a project
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12:38:26  <andythenorth> ho sorry :)
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12:38:51  <andythenorth> I assumed project instructions applied equally to central projects
12:38:53  <andythenorth> oops
13:09:19  <supermop> have yet to give up this bb game
13:10:38  <supermop> goodnight
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15:36:47  <Yotson> any recommendations for which AI to pick for some casual playing?
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15:38:04  <frosch123> SimpleAi i think is causal
15:38:08  <frosch123> *casual
15:39:35  <Yotson> thanks. will try that one.
15:45:42  <andythenorth> CivilAI is interesting
15:45:47  <andythenorth> just builds roads and buses
15:45:52  <andythenorth> gently
15:48:57  <andythenorth> can someone just add that industry option to ottd
15:49:15  <andythenorth> it seems like one player is going to cause a dubious option to be added to all known industry sets
15:49:29  <andythenorth> simply by asking over and over again
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15:53:40  <Sylf> >_<
15:54:40  <andythenorth> hmm
15:55:15  <andythenorth> FIRS has a long standing problem where date-restricted industries don’t get easily built by the game during gameplay
15:55:20  <andythenorth> because map is already full
15:55:21  <Sylf> so, for those industries that follows the natural production increase/decrease, we can have a map filled with primary industries with 6t/month production?
15:56:09  * andythenorth wonders if screwing with industry properties after dates x, y, z would make any difference
15:56:14  <andythenorth> or if ottd already does that
15:57:20  <frosch123> ottd already does that
15:57:25  <andythenorth> figures
15:57:40  <andythenorth> no point making FIRS more complicated then
15:58:17  <andythenorth> wondered if it was also a nice way to have industry “eras”, but allow player to fund whatever they wish
15:59:34  <Sylf> :D  I can force invent aluminum in 17th century using FIRS
15:59:37  <andythenorth> yes
15:59:40  <andythenorth> but no
15:59:46  <Sylf> and biodiesel in 12th century
15:59:50  <andythenorth> currently, unless you patch it, you can’t :P
15:59:59  <andythenorth> you ought to be able to though
16:00:06  <andythenorth> complete change of topic, how was nmlc converted to python 3?  Manually, or 2to3?
16:02:55  <Alberth> 2to3, and a lot of manual changes to convert to str.format
16:03:15  <Alberth> and some manual changes for things that 2to3 couldn't do
16:03:39  <Alberth> mostly io handling, and mixup of bytes with text
16:04:10  <andythenorth> I should convert the FIRS compile
16:04:18  <andythenorth> to learn python 3 API and idioms
16:04:28  <andythenorth> and to remove the clunky mixed-python compile
16:04:45  <andythenorth> I think the deps support 3
16:04:57  <Alberth> that's useful :)
16:04:57  <andythenorth> even PIL :P
16:05:11  <Alberth> of course, else nmlc would be dead :p
16:05:42  * andythenorth considers just running 2to3 and crossing fingers
16:06:02  <Alberth> 2to3 is a bit stupid
16:06:26  <andythenorth> dangerously so, or just annoying?
16:06:36  <andythenorth> most magic is bad :P
16:06:49  <Alberth> dict.keys()   and friends   are converted to list(dict.keys())
16:07:02  <Alberth> even in contexts where it's not needed
16:07:07  <andythenorth> that’s urgh
16:07:25  <andythenorth> it’s run
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16:07:36  <andythenorth> it printed a very large number of raises
16:07:59  <Alberth> have a look at the changes to see if they make sense
16:08:05  <andythenorth> hmm
16:08:10  <andythenorth> it’s raising on .pypnml files
16:08:15  <andythenorth> that’s an interesting choice
16:08:16  <Alberth> lol
16:08:19  <andythenorth> they’re not python
16:08:29  <andythenorth> they contain some python
16:08:37  <andythenorth> but they’re not a valid python file
16:09:20  <andythenorth> maybe I should do it one directory at a time, to make it manageable
16:09:28  <andythenorth> diff will be huge
16:09:53  <Alberth> you have that much code?
16:10:27  <andythenorth> nah
16:10:39  <Alberth> I don't remember exactly, but I might also have done some shuffling in python 2 in the right direction
16:10:41  <andythenorth> eh hardly any diff at all
16:10:58  <andythenorth> allegedly this is it
16:11:09  <andythenorth> unicode strings
16:11:12  <andythenorth> change prints
16:12:53  <andythenorth> pip is awesome :P
16:12:59  <andythenorth> python packaging that actually works
16:14:15  <Alberth> sorted stuff changes around 280-300 seem unneeded
16:14:38  <andythenorth> bit list happy
16:16:34  <Alberth> it's a safe change, and even preserves cpu costs :p
16:17:41  * andythenorth tests
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16:24:30  <andythenorth> ho problems
16:24:36  <andythenorth> broken docs
16:24:45  <andythenorth> and grf misses any industries
16:24:48  <andythenorth> :)
16:25:02  <Alberth> minor detail :)
16:31:38  <andythenorth> I had better learn what actually changed in python 3
16:32:05  <Alberth> doesn't hurt reading about that :)
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16:36:39  <andythenorth> brb
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17:11:10  <andythenorth> seems python 3 doesn’t like my sorting
17:12:10  <andythenorth> the doc generation is a place made of string and tape
17:12:37  <andythenorth> maybe a python 3 conversion is better done later
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17:18:17  <Wolf01> should I redeem this game on steam?
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17:26:54  <NGC3982> I'm noticing that on one of my servers, towns seem to be much, much more hostile on terraforming and building-on-trees than on the other servers.
17:27:16  <NGC3982> town_council_tolerance is set to the most submissive parameter. Can NewGRF change how towns react outside of this parameter?
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17:27:44  <NGC3982> The NewGRF's i'm using are all of the Japan Set3 GRF's, FIRS and ISR station.
17:27:45  <NGC3982> +s
17:30:06  <frosch123> houses can set how hostile their destruction is
17:30:28  <NGC3982> But that only goes for actually destroying the house tile.
17:30:37  <frosch123> yup, no difference otherwise
17:30:39  <NGC3982> Not constructing rails on the trees next to it?
17:30:41  <NGC3982> Ok.
17:32:34  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:32:54  <NGC3982> Thank you.
17:45:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27130 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2015-01-31 17:45:21 UTC)
17:45:29  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:30  <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 1 changes by ww9980
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18:23:36  <Samu> hey, is there a hotkey that increases size of loan?
18:23:55  <Alberth> ctrl + click ?
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18:24:00  <Alberth> ie max loan
18:24:06  <Alberth> hi hi V
18:24:35  <V453000> hi XD
18:24:40  <Samu> no, something like a toggle
18:24:43  <V453000> I wuz netsplit or something :D for the past few days
18:24:53  <Samu> press X, toggles transparency
18:25:30  <Samu> press whatever, toggles increase/repay loan
18:26:18  <Alberth> I don't know of any key, but that doesn't mean a lot, I never looked for such keys either
18:26:26  <Alberth> you tried the key list at the wiki?
18:27:12  <Samu> here?
18:27:14  <Samu> let me see
18:27:30  <frosch123> there was the idea to implement mouse wheel on statusbar-money
18:27:40  <frosch123> but don't think that was implemented
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18:31:19  <Samu> that would be even better
18:35:48  <Samu> huge screenshot of a 4096x4096 map - "The screenshot will have a resolution of 262,017 x 131,159 pixels"
18:35:54  <Samu> let's see :p
18:36:45  <Samu> aww, it's not multi-threaded :(
18:37:24  <peter1138> I miss the days when systems had only 32KB RAM in total... :p
18:37:28  <frosch123> good luck finding a software to look at it .)
18:38:39  <NGC3982> The Windows 10 previewer can handle a 2048^2 map picture.
18:38:46  <NGC3982> 8.1 did not, for some reason.
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18:40:49  <frosch123> oh, did they get ottd related reports?
18:41:08  <NGC3982> One should assume. (-;
18:41:09  <frosch123> i do not know any other software that trolls the user by allowing to create a pointsless screenshot
18:41:21  <NGC3982> P..pointless?
18:41:43  <frosch123> a giant screenshot of 4kx4k is for sure pointless :)
18:41:51  <V453000> .
18:41:56  <NGC3982> The ultra screenshot in OpenTTD is the sword in the stone.
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18:42:07  <NGC3982> It opened up ways for religion and science to co-exist and flourish.
18:42:20  * NGC3982 is bored out of his mind.
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18:43:47  <Samu> is there a way to run openttd without windows borders but still in windowed mode?
18:44:13  <andythenorth> can something be hot, and cold? o_O
18:44:53  <Samu> some games can do it
18:45:15  <andythenorth> I suspect it’s OS specific
18:45:16  <Samu> when i maximize the window, it removes the borders
18:45:17  <andythenorth> I have no borders
18:45:29  <andythenorth> I have a title bar, that’s ~essential
18:45:37  <NGC3982> The bordering is usually a product of the used Windows theme, afaik.
18:45:55  <NGC3982> If i change from post-Aero to pre-Aero (or any other '
18:46:14  <NGC3982> ..'classic theme') i get the vertical borders.
18:47:27  <Samu> like running a browser in fullscreenmode
18:47:55  <Samu> press F11 on internet explorer
18:48:19  <NGC3982> I pressed f11 in OpenTTD once.
18:48:22  <NGC3982> That was a big mistake.
18:51:49  <Samu> the screenshot is still being captured
18:51:50  <Samu> :(
18:52:48  <Alberth> you wanted a full screenshot :)
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18:56:44  <Samu>
18:57:02  <Samu> that
18:57:24  <Samu> and once double sized gui elements become better
18:57:39  <Samu> I would always run OpenTTD in that mode
18:58:08  <Samu> it would be much better to alt-tab between programs
18:59:06  <andythenorth> a bug!
18:59:08  <andythenorth> quick fix it!
18:59:10  * andythenorth tries
18:59:41  <Alberth> alt-tab?  just switch desktop :p
19:00:36  <frosch123> switch desktops? just have multiple screens
19:00:41  <Samu> is a big deal :p
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19:02:06  <Alberth> frosch123: hmm, a big rotating wheel for 6 screens?  sounds like an option :p
19:02:15  <Wolf01> I need the opposite of that software, the ability to run full screen games in windowed mode :D
19:02:32  <frosch123> Alberth: 6 screens still work in a 3x2 grid
19:03:01  <frosch123> 8 is more complicate since they are no longer 4:3
19:03:48  <V453000> Samu how many openttd people watch twitch
19:03:58  <V453000> just to see someone look around the map or build slowly
19:03:58  <Alberth> 1
19:04:19  <frosch123> V453000: how many hearthstone people watch twitch
19:04:28  <V453000> idk, probably a lot? :)
19:04:37  <frosch123> just to see someone not knowing the game mechanics
19:04:39  <V453000> 80k
19:05:58  <NGC3982> What is Hearthstone?
19:06:11  <V453000> blizzard card game
19:06:13  <frosch123> a digitral trading card game
19:06:19  <NGC3982> Ah.
19:06:40  <NGC3982> Well, it's a Blizzard game. People that follow Blizzard games probably follow all Blizzard games.
19:06:55  <frosch123> it kind of proved that a computer is a better medium to play such games than hardware paper cards
19:07:42  <frosch123> mtg players will likely turn into ttdp players or similar
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19:59:21  <Alberth> andy, that was quick :)
20:11:38  <Samu> screenshot captured :+
20:11:53  <andythenorth> too quick :P
20:11:58  <andythenorth> I forgot to bump savegame
20:12:30  <Samu> took 1 hour, 8 minutes
20:13:10  <Samu> 2,52 GB (2.710.958.630 bytes)
20:13:12  <Samu> lol
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20:20:26  <DanMacK> Hey all
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20:26:54  <andythenorth> @seen DanMacK
20:26:55  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 6 minutes and 28 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
20:26:58  <andythenorth> \o/
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20:46:29  <Wolf01> uhm... the brunnel could be a nice addition to ottd
20:48:21  <Alberth> what is its purpose?
20:48:33  <Wolf01> I don't know
20:48:44  <Wolf01> maybe a bad feature
20:48:54  <Alberth> I mean in real life
20:49:18  <Alberth> seems a bit weird having a tunnel in an open field
20:49:47  <Wolf01> maybe they built it there and then pushed it in place
20:50:22  <Alberth> quite possible
20:50:41  <Wolf01> they did it so for the pedestrian passage under the railroad here
20:50:57  <Alberth> sorry DanMacK, I wrote busy bee, and now andy is all active with FIRS again :p
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21:28:05  <Samu> i found a problem with exclusive transport rights and oilfields
21:28:18  <Samu> no cargo is delivered to the oilfield station
21:28:35  <Samu> not even to the company who bought exclusive
21:29:26  <Samu> with a ship there
21:32:55  <andythenorth> that sounds correct
21:35:10  <Samu> how so?
21:35:54  <andythenorth> if you buy exclusive, that means ‘only your stations'
21:35:58  <andythenorth> oil rig isn’t your station
21:36:24  <Samu> it looks like an oversight
21:36:38  <Samu> they should be an exception
21:36:56  <Samu> they're neutral
21:37:28  <andythenorth> would be considered a bug by the player who bought exclusive rights?
21:38:06  <b_jonas> Samu: build another station next to the oil field and use that maybe?
21:38:32  <Samu> that's against server rules
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21:43:32  <frosch123> a server that enables exclusive rights? how unusal
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21:51:00  <NGC3982> !seen dreck
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21:53:32  <dreck> hi
21:56:17  <dreck> st2 you still around here? :)
21:56:28  <ST2> more or less ^^
21:56:42  <ST2> hi :)
21:58:23  <dreck> heh what doing atm? more player management or not? ;)
21:58:32  <ST2> yeah ;)
21:58:44  <dreck> need a whip?
21:58:45  <dreck> :P
21:59:09  <ST2> I wonder that sometimes would help :D
22:02:28  *** efess [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:04:10  <dreck> heh :)
22:04:22  <dreck> you mind pm for a moment?
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22:29:11  <andythenorth> bye
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22:33:44  <dreck> just asking but is it normal for two-cargo-parts locomotive/wagon to fail at autoreplace even if the 2nd part is refit to nil/empty cargotype slot?
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23:21:16  <supermop> yo
23:33:59  <dreck> hi supermop hows you?
23:34:19  <supermop> not bad
23:37:37  <dreck> up to anything?
23:46:55  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: yes, autoreplace does not know how to handle dual-cargo vehicles
23:50:33  <supermop> are all RVs positioned on the road the same, or can one mess with sprite offsets to change it
23:50:34  <dreck> suspected as much, weird how planes work just fine etca but I guess thats a completely different world code-wise :)
23:50:58  <supermop> so that a tram keeps slightly more to the center than a bus
23:51:01  <Eddi|zuHause> planes are a special case
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23:51:37  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i don't see how that would help anybody, but it should be possible
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23:56:35  <supermop> trese tram tracks im drawing.. look odd if the loading gauge is too wide so drawing them close together
23:57:08  <supermop> but i can imagine buses driving that close looking claustrophobic
23:58:11  <supermop> even though a tram is wider than a car, road lanes are often built wider than the loading guage of straight tram track on higher speed streets and roads
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23:59:24  <dreck> supermop theres one thing to keep in mind, tram tracks are placed bit out of alignment on purpose due to the nature of how much more slippery car tires get if sitting directly on top of standard gauge ones
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23:59:39  <dreck> but for metre or other obvious different gauges it wouldn't matter as so much

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