Log for #openttd on 12th February 2015:
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07:06:42  <V453000> OH FFS SIN COS TAN WTF
07:07:03  <V453000> making camera position x2 doesnt mean I can /2 the FOV :D
07:07:06  <V453000> FVCK
07:11:08  <V453000> meth sucks
07:12:49  <V453000> surprisingly the "correct value" is very close to the assumed x2
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08:53:58  <peter1138>
08:54:03  <peter1138> 8KB bug... lol
08:56:08  <V453000> XD
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09:33:05  <V453000> lol and I was wondering why bridges take so long to render
09:33:11  <V453000> I used x16 zoom resolution XD
09:34:49  <planetmaker> o/
09:35:08  <V453000> hi
09:36:20  <V453000> rendering test sprites now :)
09:36:26  <planetmaker> we totally should introduce 16x zoom in openttd ;)
09:36:30  <planetmaker> especially for the gui
09:36:32  <V453000> :D
09:36:37  <V453000> especially.
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10:02:33  <V453000> boatload of sprites is a boatload of sprites.
10:04:10  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: I had a hilarious one earlier
10:04:16  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: photoshop wouldnt open files
10:04:18  <Diablo-D3> file->new nothing
10:04:27  <Diablo-D3> file->open, dialog opens, select file, nothing
10:04:31  <Diablo-D3> drag file into it, nothing
10:04:35  <Diablo-D3> double click a psd, nothing
10:04:43  <Diablo-D3> uninstalled photoshop, reinstalled, didnt fix it
10:04:52  <Diablo-D3> uninstalled photoshop, uninstalled CC, reinstalled both, didnt fix it
10:04:54  <planetmaker> it's not like adobe produces quality software
10:05:03  <Diablo-D3> uninstalled, uninstalled, rebooted, then reinstalled finally fucking fixed it
10:05:13  <planetmaker> so it's totally no surprise :)
10:05:13  <Diablo-D3> and before you ask, just rebooting didnt fix it before I went down the uninstall hole
10:05:19  <V453000> I use adobe software for everything and it works 100% fine for me .
10:05:24  <Diablo-D3> fucking pissed me off, I hate rebooting
10:09:10  <V453000> I would like to hear your suggested (better) equivalents
10:09:23  <V453000> coding-wise mayhaps, but actually using the programs ...
10:10:23  <Diablo-D3> there isnt a better alternative
10:10:27  <Diablo-D3> otherwise I'd be using it
10:10:34  <Diablo-D3> thank god I dont need to use the rest of their shit
10:10:41  <Diablo-D3> dreamweaver? lol fuck that, I know html and css.
10:10:43  <Diablo-D3> vim++.
10:10:45  <V453000> so basically all software is shit
10:11:22  <V453000> well I use mainly photoshop/after effects/illustrator/indesign/lightroom and all of those together work great
10:12:13  <planetmaker> V453000, I was talking coding wise. And it's not like adobe flash isn't the biggest threat to computers currently
10:12:41  <planetmaker> thus similar can probably be assumed for everything they do: shiny on the surface. but build on rubble-pile foundations
10:12:49  <V453000> coding wise I can give no input :) but for using, it is good
10:15:38  <V453000> especially when I do everything from bitmap graphics, vector graphics, video postproduction, 3D postproduction, print document stuff, ... since all of the relevant formats simply fit together, user interface is similar, in general they work similar, some functions are even the same
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10:39:41  <supermop> hmm give an 80s style to the 70s tram and a 70s style to the 80s tram?
10:39:46  <supermop> im thinking yes
10:40:25  <supermop> or give the 80s style to the 50s tram, 50s style to the 70s tram etc  etc
10:41:11  <supermop> no no the 50s style belongs on the 2010s tram
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10:48:08  <supermop>
10:48:18  <supermop>
10:48:26  <supermop>
10:48:56  <supermop> those are what i am thinking for those three generations
10:49:08  <supermop> inspirationally
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11:43:25  <V453000> heyoo supermop
11:43:33  <V453000> interesting, taking inspiration from totally other things :)
11:45:14  <supermop> sort of
11:45:26  <supermop> this idea iss running away from me
11:45:52  <supermop> but now i get to practice creating and rendering glossy plastic textures
11:46:34  <supermop> which i never did in school studying architecture - unlike all the industrial design kids who did almost only glossy plastic
11:47:57  <supermop> i really want this articulated tram to have the style of both the colorful glossy round of 70s braun gear, and the hard edge matte grey of 80s braun gear...
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11:49:07  <V453000> hm
11:49:23  <V453000> well, in general glossy stuff doesnt look that great in orthographic projection I think
11:49:30  <V453000> since the rays just go very uniformly
11:49:35  <V453000> but yeah :) go try :)
11:50:23  <supermop> the 80s gear feels so much more in character for this tram but i think the articulated section could be more fun with the 70s style
11:50:26  <supermop> hmm
11:51:04  <supermop> i wonder about placing objects or buildings in scene, or an image that is reflected but not rendered
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11:52:18  <supermop> how are you doing windows?
11:52:38  <supermop> i guess from above they would just reflect the street not the sky
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12:00:10  <V453000> well yeah
12:00:21  <V453000> I just add some reflective material and am pretty done with it
12:00:25  <V453000> didnt do many windows yet :)
12:00:31  <V453000> for trains I just use textures
12:00:34  <V453000> no reflections
12:00:57  <V453000> I think that even with some HRDI maps for environment, it doesnt look good either because of the orthographic reflections
12:01:24  <V453000> if you just want specular highlights, that should be fine
12:04:12  <supermop> hmm want to incorporate something like those metal struts at the rear
12:04:27  <supermop> maybe run along the roof or something
12:05:34  <V453000> hm :)
12:05:35  <planetmaker> yes, coffee machines and office buildings are just the same :)
12:06:22  <supermop> trams planetmaker !
12:06:34  <supermop> ....... Dieter Trams
12:06:43  <planetmaker> :D
12:06:51  <V453000> XD
12:07:09  <supermop> *crickets chirping at lame design joke*
12:07:33  <supermop> but seriously, that is the name of this tram set
12:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause> "the tram producer also makes coffee machines" is a very... socialistic... approach :p
12:07:59  <raincomplex> i love this channel
12:08:13  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: in an openttd world i would not find it surprising
12:08:47  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, like the rubber boot company producing mobile phones?
12:09:13  <supermop> after accruing trillions of dollars where every village is at your mercy, i imagine you'd control the coffee machine market as well
12:09:38  <Eddi|zuHause> in east germany there were lots of instances like "we have a shortage of leather jackets. the steel manufacturer is now in charge of making leather jackets."
12:10:20  <supermop> "Would you like to exclusively test the Floss 47 Hot Water Kettle for a year"?
12:10:45  <planetmaker> <-- interesting result for leather steel jacket. supermob^Wsuperman beware ;)
12:10:59  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: shortage of leather jackets? it seems like steel would be more important to a controlled economy???
12:12:14  <planetmaker> but honestly, supermop, I thought you were doing a building set? Or is that retired?
12:12:45  <supermop> no its still going but a set of 5 or so trams is me sticking my toes in the water
12:13:02  <planetmaker> I see :)
12:13:31  <supermop> i have not textured or rendered any house models yet and still collect ideas for it but at the moment the task feels much too large
12:13:39  <supermop> so try to do something small first
12:13:41  <raincomplex>
12:14:25  <peter1138> that coffee machine... looks like a piece of lego
12:17:37  <supermop> i am so jealous of you germans ... this old braun gear fetches hundreds or thousands in the US but i've heard can often be found cheaply at junk shops and yard sales there...
12:18:26  <supermop> peter1138: a few years ago i bought the matching grinder on and had it shipped to new york .. the coffee machine itself was too expensive
12:18:29  <planetmaker> what you talking about? (coffee machines?)
12:19:09  <supermop> coffee machines yes - the later white ones are common in the us but those 70s ones are very rare
12:19:29  <supermop> but mostly the braun hifi gear - almost none was made for the us market
12:19:43  <planetmaker> might be a problem with voltage then :)
12:19:59  <planetmaker> they run badly when fed only 1/4 of the power :)
12:20:58  <supermop> myself and colleagues have looked into or even purchased 60hz-50hz ac converters to run german turntables on us power
12:21:33  <supermop> everything else runs fine on 120V but the records go too fast of course
12:21:53  <supermop> coffee grinder grinding too fast does not bother me
12:22:18  <supermop> that requires transformer though
12:22:54  <supermop> of course now i live with 50hz 220V, but it is far too expensive to ship to australia from EU
12:24:26  <V453000> SHINY BRIDGES =D
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12:24:59  <V453000> fun part is that the first biggest line is just bridge heads :D
12:25:05  <V453000> every other category is smaller
12:26:48  * planetmaker fails to see any bridges. Just crushed, colourful cardboard boxes
12:27:05  <V453000> those are bridges pm
12:28:55  <V453000> oh FVCK
12:29:00  <V453000> I just realized roads change with climate
12:29:02  <V453000> asdf ass
12:29:14  <planetmaker> yes yes
12:29:31  <V453000> ok, so the red tiles should be there x4 :P
12:29:48  <V453000> hmhmhm asdf
12:30:20  <supermop> bedtime
12:30:24  <supermop> later all
12:30:49  <V453000> cya
12:30:51  <V453000> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
12:30:57  <V453000> my infrastructure was not ready for this XD
12:31:04  <V453000>  /inconvenient
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12:33:35  <V453000> I guess making tracks to differ with climates would be nice eventually as well
12:34:04  <planetmaker> possible, yes
12:34:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean sleeper colour depends on what wood is used? :p
12:35:01  <V453000> kind of :) they can be entirely different Eddi
12:35:19  <V453000> the sprites have to be defined anyway
12:35:31  <V453000> and changing the model in each instance group is not that much work
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12:38:32  <V453000> hm.
12:38:40  <V453000> well then :D
13:05:28  <V453000> fuck, that is a lot of stuff :D
13:07:54  <Diablo-D3> [07:29:00] <V453000> I just realized roads change with climate
13:08:04  <Diablo-D3> I still kinda wish we had really really tall maps
13:08:10  <Diablo-D3> like 2 or 3x the height we have now
13:08:17  <Diablo-D3> so temperate could fade into alpine
13:08:29  <Diablo-D3> complete with changes in the economy
13:08:48  <Diablo-D3> which could lead to hilarious citybuilder games that require EEVVERYYYTTHIIING
13:09:47  <V453000> I wonder if I want to define even all rail bridges per-climate
13:10:20  <V453000> wait do actually road bridges change with climate
13:10:33  <V453000> I dont think they do
13:10:34  <planetmaker> V453000, if you make the tracks per climate: then that's somewhat a necessity
13:10:46  <V453000> well sure that is talking eventually :)
13:11:34  <V453000> right so I suppose a base set does not replace road bridges variously in various climates except toyland, but I guess when I have dirt roads in tropic, adding asphalt bridges is just retarded
13:12:59  <V453000> zbase has all roads the same which is hideous
13:13:17  <V453000> ogfx too ._.
13:13:30  <V453000> or
13:13:31  <V453000> no
13:13:31  <planetmaker> no.
13:13:34  <Diablo-D3> V453000: I think road bridges do change with climate
13:13:43  <Diablo-D3> at least some grfs do it
13:13:47  <Diablo-D3> when they have interesting roads
13:13:49  <V453000> they always have dashes
13:13:52  <V453000> well newgrfs
13:13:53  <V453000> but base sets
13:13:58  <planetmaker> Diablo-D3, we're not interested in what newgrfs do
13:14:08  <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: at least it can be done =P
13:14:13  <Diablo-D3> it'd be nice if base did it too
13:14:28  <planetmaker> they can
13:14:47  <Diablo-D3> question, does ANYONE use toyland? ever? at all?
13:14:53  <V453000> <-
13:15:04  * planetmaker does
13:15:48  <Diablo-D3> whats the draw in it?
13:15:54  <V453000> it is fun?
13:15:57  <Diablo-D3> like, Ive never seen a server use it
13:16:03  <V453000> our servers use it often
13:16:27  <V453000> perhaps not as often as the other climates, but often.
13:16:32  <Diablo-D3> which is your servers?
13:16:46  <V453000>
13:17:18  <Diablo-D3> ahh, you're that guy?
13:17:43  <V453000> depends on definition of that guy
13:18:07  <Diablo-D3> its either too late in the day or too early in the morning to define it.
13:19:32  <V453000> not like that makes sense
13:20:43  <V453000> regardless, I dont see why would you not use toyland
13:20:52  <Diablo-D3> Ive never seen anyone play toyland
13:21:04  <V453000> especially since you can alter it with some landcape newgfrfs, trees, even infrastructure or industries and vehicles
13:21:05  <Diablo-D3> its always temperate, desert, or alpine, in that order
13:21:09  <V453000> stations work there as well
13:21:25  <Diablo-D3> I actually like alpine a lot
13:21:30  <Diablo-D3> its the best looking one of the bunch
13:23:03  <V453000> add newgrfs and all are equal :)
13:23:19  <planetmaker> V453000, actually I don't understand why OpenGFX doesn't provide special bridge support in tropical climate. The sprites are there for bridges w/o the road markings
13:23:30  <V453000> XD
13:23:31  <planetmaker> but I don't see them used, tbh. At least not in the code. Not checking ingame now
13:23:42  * Diablo-D3 should run an openttd server, so no one will connect to it ever :<
13:24:05  <planetmaker> doing per-climate stuff is easy in base sets, V453000: just add replace blocks for sprites in the extra grf of the base set, querying the climate
13:24:10  <planetmaker> that's legal for base sets
13:24:22  <planetmaker> basically like rawr does now
13:24:25  <V453000> right :)
13:24:26  <V453000> nice
13:24:36  <V453000> I was already on the way with that approach
13:24:45  <V453000> duplicated everything, everything possible on per-climate basis
13:24:58  <planetmaker> one could probably do even like put blank sprites in all 5 grfs and only use extra grf :P
13:25:05  <V453000> xd
13:25:10  <Diablo-D3> like, do people hate industry replacement grfs?
13:25:14  <planetmaker> excep recolour sprites
13:25:19  <Diablo-D3> theres like, what, 3 servers that offer it? and no one is ever on it?
13:25:36  <V453000> Diablo-D3: you mean the tons of servers with FIRS with tons of people?
13:25:52  <Diablo-D3> I wonder if my openttd is broken
13:26:02  <Diablo-D3> because I never see people on those servers
13:26:07  <planetmaker> yes, YETI became enslaved in FIRS ports by the ECS economy
13:26:07  <Diablo-D3> it always says 0/xx
13:26:10  <V453000> planetmaker: can a bridge detect if it is in a desert or in the jungle though?
13:26:15  <planetmaker> V453000, nope
13:26:19  <V453000> exactly :)
13:26:36  <Diablo-D3> wait, a bridge cant, but the roads can?
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13:26:57  <V453000> bridge can detect height
13:27:08  <Diablo-D3> but height doesnt define jungle
13:27:12  <V453000> exactly :)
13:27:22  <V453000> it is nice with snow
13:27:39  <V453000> I dont think a base set can do that like swedish tracks though
13:27:39  <Diablo-D3> sometimes ttd is too clever.
13:28:27  <Diablo-D3> afk, still work left to do
13:28:27  <planetmaker> V453000, a track set can do (a bit) more than base sets
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13:28:46  <V453000> that I understand but -howmuch- :D
13:29:07  <planetmaker> query position, query height
13:29:15  <V453000> :)
13:29:52  <planetmaker> as base set you can only provide bridges totally agnostic of the terrain. But a track set cannot change that either
13:30:03  <planetmaker> BUT! A track set gets its own tracks drawn on the bridges
13:30:20  <planetmaker> thus it can draw them snowy on bridges
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13:34:52  <V453000> ah right
13:35:10  <V453000> cause railtypes
13:35:16  <Diablo-D3> so
13:35:23  <Diablo-D3> will base ever have useful ships?
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13:36:01  <V453000> any ships have infinite throughput?
13:36:25  <Diablo-D3> I dunno, I just kinda wish ottd had legitimate ship play
13:36:36  <V453000> but how would it be interesting
13:36:40  <V453000> you send ship A to point B
13:36:41  <Diablo-D3> like, you build large docks and each ship takes up a spot on the dock
13:36:46  <Diablo-D3> and ships would be larger
13:36:47  <V453000> you do it 1920438 times because you have 120838 ships
13:36:48  <Diablo-D3> much larger
13:37:05  <Diablo-D3> not hold more
13:37:05  <V453000> so you would need complete new ship pathfinding, new docks, new ships
13:37:07  <Diablo-D3> just be larger
13:37:07  <V453000> good luck :)
13:37:12  <Diablo-D3> V453000: yeah =/
13:37:14  <Diablo-D3> oh well
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13:40:52  <samu> hi
13:41:27  <samu> how does terraforming work internally
13:41:35  <Diablo-D3> V453000: is it wrong to want better ships?
13:41:43  <samu> is it like a domino effect?
13:42:05  <planetmaker> is fish or squid
13:42:38  <V453000> but what do you want done better Diablo-D3 ? :D and how
13:42:39  <V453000> really
13:42:48  <V453000> how will bigger dock or bigger ship help
13:42:51  <V453000> it will still be primitive
13:43:05  <V453000> if you were to control them then you would probably need some control system like tracks
13:43:21  <V453000> presumable some e.g. edit mode for ship routes which you could then disable and see only normal water
13:43:28  <V453000> but that sounds like it is going way out of scope
13:43:42  <samu> if i lower a corner which requires subsequent corners to be lowered as well, what will the game do to get there? i want to understand a bit about terraform logic
13:44:17  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: it loops over the adjacent tiles until it finds one that it can terraform
13:44:18  <Diablo-D3> V453000: openttd is scale broken beyond belief, but most if it I can buy....
13:44:28  <Diablo-D3> V453000: but ships are just ... wrong.
13:44:41  <Diablo-D3> V453000: too small, 100+ ships at a tiny 2x1 dock, etc etc etc
13:45:12  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: look in the appropriate *_cmd.cpp file for the "command" functions
13:45:32  <samu> oki
13:45:47  <Eddi|zuHause> in this case probably landscape_cmd.cpp
13:48:02  <samu> thx, I will look into that. i have in my mind a "devious" idea, probably nightmarish code-wise to make river-tiles terraformable, it will need to change some terraform rules for it to workÂŽ~
13:56:51  <samu> oh yes!
13:56:53  <samu> nightmare
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14:17:20  <V453000> Diablo-D3: sure but solving it is immense amount of effort for no real gain
14:18:40  <V453000> you either have to rely on others to be so interested in the issue, to do the work for you, or do it yourself
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14:25:09  <samu> okay, where do I start, I have to explain the idea from the beginning
14:26:26  <planetmaker> samu, best by making sure you can compile openttd from source
14:26:48  <planetmaker> then start making modifcations. And then present a patch
14:26:59  <samu> basically, in english words: I want the game to let me terraform river tiles
14:27:25  <planetmaker> no change for that needed. you can simply destroy and terraform them
14:27:50  <samu> raising land where a river tile is located however will be the nightmare that has to be solved
14:28:10  <samu> because i want the river to be kept intact
14:28:30  <V453000> has to be solved is a nice word
14:28:33  <samu> that can only be possible with some "automated" terraforming, and switching river tiles
14:29:36  <samu> there's however a "puzzle" in my mind which I'm not sure if it can be solved
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14:30:14  <DanMacK> Hey all
14:30:37  <samu> to raise a river
14:30:44  <samu> it cannot have a slope
14:31:00  <samu> well, it can actually, but those diagonal slopes are a no
14:31:29  <planetmaker> make that change
14:32:42  <samu> i really have to draw
14:32:47  <samu> too hard to explain
14:33:28  <samu> i can see it being possible, except for some automated decisions given a flat river tile
14:33:37  <samu> it cannot decide on its own
14:34:09  <samu> imagine a flat lake
14:34:22  <samu> sized, hmm for example 5x5
14:34:43  <samu> if I raise land in the center of that
14:34:58  <samu> the game won't know what to do
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14:35:17  <samu> it could go in two directions
14:35:18  <V453000> it is pretty consistent now :) keep that
14:36:00  <samu> to maintain river consistency, it can raise vertically or horizontally
14:36:20  <samu> all the adjacent tiles on that corner could go either way
14:36:55  <samu> this is the problem I think that cannot be decided by the game
14:37:21  <samu> automated terraforming in this situation is my dilema, what would you do?
14:37:35  <samu> two possible outcomes which the game can't guess
14:38:07  <V453000> I would keep it as it is
14:38:40  <samu> gonna draw this example, brb
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14:40:53  <Diablo-D3> [09:17:20] <V453000> Diablo-D3: sure but solving it is immense amount of effort for no real gain
14:40:53  <Diablo-D3> [09:18:40] <V453000> you either have to rely on others to be so interested in the issue, to do the work for you, or do it yourself
14:41:12  <Diablo-D3> V453000: well I imagine even if I do fix it, it'll be relegated to an option which no server will turn on
14:41:29  <V453000> ?
14:41:41  <V453000> if your setting is good and popular, why would no server run on it
14:41:53  <Diablo-D3> because of the amount of inertia this community has
14:41:55  <Diablo-D3> they hate change
14:42:02  <planetmaker> whining would have no foundation then anymore, V453000
14:42:04  <V453000> not really
14:42:37  <Diablo-D3> V453000: I dunno, Ive seen some forum threads that were bitchfests
14:42:38  <planetmaker> Diablo-D3, it's easy to *talk* about change. It's much more difficult to actually *make change happen*. Go and start with the latter. Let us see patches
14:42:45  <V453000> also, a lot of the effort put into this game is for their own "how they like it to look"
14:42:55  <V453000> for example my NewGRFs are only used by handful of people, yet I enjoy making them?
14:42:58  <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: I'd honestly rather just buy the damned feature.
14:42:59  <planetmaker> let us see NewGRFs, let us see game scripts.
14:43:17  <V453000> go buy a person to code it for you XD
14:44:47  <V453000> I mean, really, those are your options. :)
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14:49:15  <samu>
14:49:26  <samu> okay that's the lake in it's original form
14:49:54  <V453000> I will just proceed ignoring you
14:50:06  <samu> if i raise land at that white dot
14:50:23  <V453000> rivers go boom and puppies go cry
14:50:24  <samu> there would be two possible outcomes, which cannot be decided by the game
14:50:39  <samu> the outcomes are in the next image
14:50:47  <samu> you can navigate it
14:50:57  <samu>
14:51:13  <samu>
14:52:06  <samu> terraforming can be drag and drop, right?
14:52:15  <V453000> that looks even more like a hack than locks XD
14:52:29  <DanMacK> V453000 - Just saw your comment, that's how I do it... lol
14:52:36  <V453000> XD
14:53:11  <DanMacK> I draw stuff I need in my games, lol
14:53:13  <samu> if i can tell the the raise corner tool which direction to raise corners, by indicating two dots
14:53:20  <samu> it can decide
14:53:27  <V453000> yes DanMacK
14:53:31  <samu> but i don't know if this can be done
14:53:34  <V453000> just like everybody else :)
14:53:37  <samu> if it can be coded that way
14:53:58  <Diablo-D3> V453000, planetmaker: so whats the correct way to make a lake out of nothing?
14:54:06  <V453000> none? :D
14:54:55  <LordAro> samu: it already is?
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14:55:26  <samu> i'm not really sure if you undestand what I am asking
14:55:49  <V453000> XD
14:55:56  <samu> to decide which outcome, only 1 corner won't do it
14:56:12  <samu> it needs at least 2 corners in drag and drop style
14:56:26  <samu> so, to indicate which direction
14:57:20  <samu> then, if it knows the direction, all the next river tiles that go towards that direction
14:57:26  <LordAro> oh, i see
14:57:27  <samu> will be terraformed accordingly
14:57:40  <LordAro> you want lakes to be subject to terraforming as well
14:57:45  <LordAro> yeah, that's a bit tricky
14:57:45  <samu> yes yes :)
14:58:58  <samu> there's only 5 shapes for river tiles
14:59:08  <samu> have to work with what exists
14:59:50  <samu> gonna draw them
15:00:55  <Gregor_> i installed the 1.5 beta over my 1.4.4 and now it says that my currently used graphics set misses some sprites and i should get a development version of the graphics set as well, but there isnt any as far as i know.
15:01:38  <planetmaker> there's none in online content. is
15:01:58  <planetmaker> unzip and place it in the 'baseset' folder of your openttd install
15:02:25  <Gregor_> thx will do that
15:03:55  <samu>
15:04:16  <Gregor_> worked!!! thank you ^^
15:04:18  <samu> the C shape, flat one, is the most troublesome to automate
15:04:30  <samu> because of decision
15:04:32  <samu> :(
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15:08:40  <samu> if i lower a single corner in either NW NE SE SW, the terraforming tool will automate the lowering corner of the adjacent tile, and all these tiles would turn to C C C C
15:09:33  <planetmaker> wonderful, Gregor_ :)
15:09:50  <samu> going from C to any of the others however... needs direction, drag and drop terraform
15:10:35  <samu> and that is... the big question, can it be done in code?
15:13:05  <samu> i can already see it being trouble for the scenario editor terraforming tool
15:13:15  <samu> it doesn't allow drag and drop
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15:16:15  <planetmaker> you could start with implementing just that: drag&drop in the SE. would be a good 1st patch. you learn to know the relevant code
15:16:21  <planetmaker> and you then can see how to get on further
15:18:35  <samu> oh, point me to the right direction :p
15:19:48  <samu> I need to edit a file that is related to scenario editor
15:20:02  <samu> terraforming as 1x1 dot
15:20:06  <samu> could allow
15:20:11  <samu> drag & drop
15:20:14  <samu> not sure about the others
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15:29:51  <samu> unable to connect to a repository at
15:30:23  <samu> oh crap, nevermind
15:30:47  <samu> it's svn://
15:38:02  <planetmaker> use hg ;)
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15:43:56  <NGC3982> I just tried something spectacular
15:44:47  <NGC3982> I used my girlfriends new (fast) computer, started a 4098^2 game with a full list of aggressive AI's, hit the speedup button and minimized it for five hours.
15:45:00  <NGC3982> The map looks like the real world in The Matrix.
16:00:37  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a real world in the matrix?
16:01:09  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
16:03:24  <samu> smallmatrix_type.hpp
16:06:05  <samu> where are the vertices
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16:07:47  <Alberth> moin
16:08:08  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
16:08:08  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 6 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <andythenorth> ho bedtime
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16:10:57  <samu> I'm looking at autoslope.h file
16:11:16  <samu> seems that I need to create something similar to this
16:11:20  <samu> autoriver
16:11:22  <samu> :p
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16:13:05  <samu> or maybe this isn't it
16:13:56  <samu> I get so lost when I look at the game code
16:15:58  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: "autoslope" is what creates the foundations if you terraform near a house etc.
16:16:24  *** supermop [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:16:24  <samu> yeah, this isn't it
16:16:33  <Diablo-D3> hrm
16:16:53  <Diablo-D3> [11:00:37] <Eddi|zuHause> there is a real world in the matrix?
16:17:08  <Diablo-D3> well, if you're stuck in a world you cannot taste, smell, see, hear, or touch
16:17:14  <Diablo-D3> would it not be the real world?
16:18:09  <Alberth> exactly why we won't find around 99% of alien life
16:19:17  <samu> can I make a deal? I come up with the whole idea described in a document, instead of trying to change game code, because honestly, I really don't know where to begin.
16:20:17  <Alberth> spend 1/2 a year reading code, and trying to change it, mostly
16:21:19  <Alberth> then in a year, you start to understand what is actually feasible
16:21:23  <samu> the files in svn looks like they're using another language. It's related to nml but not really the same
16:21:41  <Alberth> lol
16:21:59  <Alberth> perhaps you should first read and code arbitrary stuff in c++
16:21:59  <samu> what lol
16:22:35  <samu> c++ is what's in svn?
16:22:45  <Alberth> it doesn't "looks like another language", it is another language, a very different one, even
16:22:47  <samu> wel, there you go, I never coded
16:23:09  <samu> i just put stuff together and hope that the puzzle works
16:23:25  <samu> that's how i worked on the nmls
16:23:45  <Alberth> it looked that way, yeah
16:24:11  <Alberth> which works for relatively small and simple problems
16:36:27  <samu> looking at the cargo refit table at nml site
16:53:28  <Gregor_> ok iÂŽm happy nice big mountains you can just build tunnels and play the swiss way ^^
16:55:56  <samu>
16:56:03  <samu> this looks to be the thing :)
16:56:22  <Alberth> doesn't look like cargo refit table :)
16:57:51  <samu> so im investigating
16:58:01  <samu> well, rivers must be out of that place
16:58:07  <Alberth> that's fine :)
16:58:23  <samu> they have to behave like part of the landscape
16:58:57  <samu> so, landscape tile type, does that exist?
16:59:04  <samu> not canal
16:59:15  <Alberth> it exists
17:00:23  <Alberth> canal is a form of water
17:00:55  <Eddi|zuHause> you should probably start by defining that water tiles do not get cleared when terraformed
17:01:20  <samu> where is the water object thingy and all its properties at?
17:01:25  <Eddi|zuHause> (and then you immediately run into the problem that rivers/canals are not defined for all slope combinations)
17:01:40  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: the map does not consist of objects
17:01:46  <samu> ah map
17:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: maybe start at docs/landscape.html
17:02:24  <samu> docs/landscape.html
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17:03:13  <samu> thanks, i found it
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17:14:52  <Gregor_> good bye and have fun ^^
17:14:55  *** Gregor_ [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]]
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17:30:13  <Alberth> hi hi
17:30:34  <planetmaker> o/
17:37:19  *** chillcore [~chillcore@] has joined #openttd
17:38:11  <chillcore> hello all
17:38:32  <Alberth> evenink
17:38:36  <samu> "Game entities".
17:38:47  <samu> 11 "water" owns the tile
17:39:10  <chillcore> hi Alberth
17:40:10  <planetmaker> ho
17:40:31  <frosch123> hola kids
17:40:48  <Alberth> :)
17:40:56  <samu> is there a difference between sea, river and canal? is it what i think it is?
17:41:09  <planetmaker> there is. But I don't know what you think
17:41:18  <samu> if water is sea -> it floods nearby tiles?
17:41:19  <chillcore> frosch ... mind if I remind you af them fixes? or can I review somewhere what you will be committing somewhere just looking for something to change my mind a bit.?
17:41:42  <chillcore> -?
17:42:04  <frosch123> it's still the patchqueue from the forums
17:42:17  <chillcore> and hello tou you too froscha nd planetmaker ;)
17:42:20  <frosch123> i have a list of annotations from ab and rb
17:42:43  <chillcore> ah ok I'll download them in a bit then.
17:42:47  <frosch123> i'll try to get my working copy clean :p
17:42:58  <chillcore> no rush ;)
17:43:03  <samu> im wondering for that piece of code that makes the water to spread
17:43:04  <planetmaker> hg pull -u && hg strip -r"outgoing()" :P
17:43:20  <planetmaker> danger, if you have things you want to keep. But cleans thoroughly
17:43:22  <samu> is it water class?
17:43:32  <samu> sea?
17:43:45  <frosch123> planetmaker: looks helpful :)
17:43:47  <planetmaker> water class distinguishes water types
17:44:34  <samu> what stops the water from spreading?
17:44:35  <Alberth> look for "flood" or so?
17:45:31  <Alberth> but tbh, we don't know the answers to your questions
17:45:37  <frosch123> -0.5°C is usually a good temperatrue
17:45:39  <Alberth> we also have to look it up
17:45:42  <frosch123> to prevent water from spreading
17:45:49  <samu> :)
17:46:06  <Alberth> less works too :)
17:46:25  <chillcore> hehe flood ... someone thought he had holes in his smallmap when I included a floodwarning colour for level 0 land in  my  bugpack :P
17:46:40  <samu> okay, so far I figured that rivers, as they are right now, have to be categorized as something else
17:46:57  <Alberth> chillcore: heh heh :)
17:46:59  <samu> they can't be objects
17:47:05  <samu> they have to be landscape
17:47:10  <frosch123> samu: it's all cargo, ask andy
17:47:15  <samu> right or wrong?
17:49:19  <chillcore> samu: they are ... rivers? never saw a ship sailing along an object.
17:49:37  <samu> arf, the goal is to transform the current river tiles into an equivalent, but which allows them to be terraformable, floodable, and act as level up for floods, also contain the water spread within itself
17:50:07  <chillcore> I have read a bit before joining ... sorry cannot help you with what you want to do
17:50:39  <planetmaker> I think the concept was once called 'lively rivers', samu. Maybe forums has something on that
17:51:10  <chillcore> samu:
17:51:23  <chillcore> ^^^ everything you never wanted to know ;)
17:51:40  <Alberth> and it's still missing parts :)
17:51:50  <chillcore> only about 50%
17:51:53  <samu> flood only works at sea level?
17:51:53  <chillcore> :P
17:52:01  <chillcore> only at level 0 yes
17:52:03  <samu> height level = 0?
17:52:25  <planetmaker> samu, it only works for water_class SEA
17:52:49  <samu> okay, i need something which allows water to spread into a rivercliff
17:53:09  <samu> gains +1 or -1 height for each rivercliff
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17:53:30  <samu> the flood must be limited to river tiles
17:53:32  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> -0.5°C is usually a good temperatrue <-- if you're really careful you can get water to like -17°C and it's still liquid
17:53:46  <samu> it cannot spawn on the rest of the land, else it's stupid
17:56:01  <Alberth> flood running up against the hill, but not flooding the lower land is not stupid?
17:56:17  <samu> it can go +1 and -1
17:56:56  <samu> and also spread to the current level, but it requires tiles with some kind of property that let's it go there
17:57:06  <samu> to confine the spread
17:57:32  <chillcore> hmm ... looking for a better bool name then "_reopen_tgen_gui" ... it is switched on in when clicking generate from tgen gui (1 exception is going to scenarioeditor from main menu)
17:58:26  <Alberth> _use_tgen_gui ?
17:58:59  <chillcore> hmm not quite ... as it is now you can open tgen gui when creating new game too
17:59:11  <chillcore> the switch is to make a diff in behavvior
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17:59:51  <chillcore> my fault ... the previous line did not include "when clicking generate in scenarioeditor"
18:00:31  <Alberth> _tgen_generate_se
18:00:35  <chillcore> but I am not sure if that widow should even exist in new game mode
18:00:48  <chillcore> ye I could go wiith that thx
18:03:02  <samu> sea tile (can spread water), height lvl 0
18:03:08  <samu> where can it go
18:03:34  <chillcore> on level 0 land
18:04:07  <chillcore> ^^^ next to sea that is
18:04:37  <chillcore> why would there be water running upstream?
18:04:40  <samu> "rivercliff" - spreads here, adds +1 height, confined by the "rivercliff" own borders
18:05:15  <chillcore> ye then it spreads and reaches the nxt level ... rince, repeat.
18:05:47  <chillcore> Belugas might for once not object to realism?
18:05:51  <chillcore> :P
18:06:11  <samu> next tile to a "rivercliff" is a "river" - spreads here, no change to height, confined by the "river" own borders
18:06:50  <samu> now clearing a river with the bulldozer tool
18:07:07  <samu> it clears the water in it, not the river, and especially not the confinement
18:07:30  <chillcore> oh ou mean canals?
18:07:32  <samu> the water will spread on it again
18:07:42  <chillcore> now you lost me again
18:08:16  <samu> clearing a rivercliff, same thing
18:08:27  <chillcore> you just said it is confined and now you want it to spread?
18:08:32  <samu> clears the water in it, not the rivercliff, and especially not the confinement
18:08:51  <samu> it's like a road route
18:09:00  <samu> which can't be altered in any way or form
18:09:29  <chillcore> hmm ...
18:09:44  <samu> the water can spread there, but not spread to nearby tiles
18:09:54  <samu> the tile must act as  the border
18:11:09  <chillcore> define border
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18:11:17  <samu> okay
18:11:49  <samu> look at a rivercliff tile, next to a sea and the rest of the river
18:12:20  <chillcore> it is created by having something on the slope
18:12:43  <samu> if the normal behaviour of water is to transform everything into water, then i need to have some sort of safeguard when it is going to spread into rivercliffs and rivers
18:12:56  <chillcore> code does that ... when build on solpes is activated
18:13:02  <chillcore> you can't change that
18:13:24  <chillcore> s solpes/slopes
18:13:53  <samu> ah, it's a slope
18:13:53  <chillcore> you can but have fun coding ... mhl is nothing compared to that
18:14:19  <chillcore> cliffs are slopes yes ... drawn differently
18:14:43  <chillcore> only when build on sopes is activated and the slope has something on it that is not plain terrain
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18:14:58  <chillcore> slopes ...
18:15:35  <chillcore> grabbing new keyboard that is not yet programmed ... only in windoze ..
18:16:03  <samu> canals would work similar to these
18:16:39  <samu> with the difference that when they're destroyed, they're actually destroyed
18:17:04  <samu> rivers aren't, they're only cleared of water
18:17:24  <samu> I'd prefer them to be that way so i can head into the next step
18:17:44  <samu> which is terraforming river tiles
18:18:44  <samu> infrastructure, such as canals, docks, etc.., would all have this confining property
18:19:08  <samu> it "cannalizes" where the water can spread
18:19:57  <samu> these can be objects, right?
18:20:32  <chillcore> sure you can make any object you want looking like anything you want
18:21:03  <chillcore> but having them confineg rivers ... I would not even know where to start
18:21:44  <chillcore> also you would need to have them everywhere river goes
18:21:49  <chillcore> from start to finish
18:22:21  <chillcore> where does dock go? dock is no object it is a station
18:22:47  <samu> ah, dock is fine the way it is right now
18:22:51  <samu> don't touch it
18:22:54  <chillcore> at the end of river is sea ... sea is no object neither
18:23:19  <chillcore> yeah but you do not want your river to keep flooding forever do you?
18:23:35  <samu> oh, you're right
18:23:46  <samu> so it also needs a confine at teh water part
18:24:06  <chillcore> and at dock and that way you close of the river and make it entirely useless
18:24:11  <chillcore> see the point?
18:24:22  <samu> no
18:24:28  <chillcore> you want the impoosible
18:24:36  <chillcore> sorry to burst your bubble
18:24:47  <samu> you build a canal
18:24:58  <chillcore> there may be a way but I have no clue how
18:25:02  <chillcore> canal is not river
18:25:10  <chillcore> and is not sea
18:25:52  <chillcore> try messing with code ... that is how we all learned
18:26:11  <chillcore> no exceptions ... even rubi had to start somewhere
18:27:36  <chillcore> peeps are willing to help but you need to do and ask questions whenever you get stuck?
18:28:17  <chillcore> I do not mean to be rude in any way so I hope you do not take it wrong ;)
18:28:30  <samu> isn't this confinement structure able to behave like a closed road when it reaches the dock tile?
18:28:49  <chillcore> if you program it that way yes
18:28:59  <samu> instead of a vehicle, it's water
18:29:19  <chillcore> eh?
18:29:25  <samu> water spreads there, and that where it stops
18:29:29  <samu> no more spreading
18:29:57  <samu> until you attach a canal near the river tile, it would open a new direction
18:30:17  <samu> is it possible to do such thing?
18:30:56  <chillcore> I do not know honestly.
18:32:50  <chillcore> begin at the start ... see if you can make rivers spread without confinment
18:33:03  <chillcore> only then think about the rest
18:33:24  * chillcore suggest small maps to test
18:33:44  *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58
18:34:37  <samu> yesterday I talked about lock-friendly rivers, today i come to the conclusion they're not needed if terraforming river tiles become possible
18:35:34  <chillcore> builing rivers is SE only by design
18:36:02  <chillcore> rivers are ... canals are built
18:36:48  <samu> SE?
18:36:52  <chillcore> either way start by making rivers flood neighbouring tiles
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18:37:22  <Wolf01> hi hi
18:37:24  <Alberth> hi hi
18:37:33  <chillcore> SE is Scenario Editor samu
18:37:34  <samu> ok, how exactly? in the nml?
18:37:35  <samu> ah
18:37:47  <chillcore> hey Wolf
18:37:55  <chillcore> samu in the C++
18:38:04  <samu> oh crap :)
18:38:20  <samu> yeah, if i can
18:38:53  <chillcore> that is what peeps have been trying to tell you all along samu
18:40:11  <chillcore> maybe you can try making a script ... AI should be able to build canals ... still not rivers
18:40:25  <chillcore> so still C++
18:40:31  <samu> where is the lock
18:40:33  <chillcore> if you insist on rivers
18:40:35  <samu> must edit it
18:40:41  <chillcore> yep
18:41:14  <samu> does the lock contain water already?
18:41:34  <samu> dumb question, yes, it does
18:41:54  <chillcore> you see it having it but does it really?
18:42:04  <chillcore> eg. there is no height in openttd
18:42:11  <chillcore> not the way you think about it
18:42:16  <samu> ships can traverse it
18:42:32  <chillcore> map is flat as pancake
18:42:37  <chillcore> it is all fake
18:42:42  <chillcore> :P
18:42:48  <chillcore> yes they can
18:43:29  <samu> let me think what I need to do
18:43:57  <chillcore> ... please use ...
18:44:33  <chillcore> plenty of documentatin but like alberth said there is missing parts
18:44:44  <chillcore> you can click through to source code though
18:47:00  <samu> 1 - add a track kind of sub-route used for water spreading only, as an addition to the current one that is used for ships
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18:47:28  <samu> ships use the first one, water uses the one i need to create
18:48:30  <samu> trying to find it
18:48:46  <chillcore> find what samu ?
18:48:55  <samu> the lock
18:49:06  <samu> lock structure
18:49:47  <Alberth> learn c++ first, would be my suggestion
18:49:58  <samu> i want to try the lock first, because it acts just as similar to a rivercliff
18:50:36  <samu> at least for this confinement part
18:50:47  <chillcore> no it does not samu
18:51:08  <samu> :( I am so terrible
18:51:32  <chillcore> nah you"re not terrible you are just not taking stuffs in the right order
18:51:55  <chillcore> As alberth said learn some coding first
18:52:21  <chillcore> you don't heve to be an expert but ydo need the basics
18:52:47  <chillcore> did you code nml all your life before dabbling into it?
18:53:05  <chillcore> were you born walking like a horsie?
18:53:13  <chillcore> no you were not ... so
18:53:15  <samu> I'm here atm
18:55:14  <chillcore> that iqs all the water there is three types
18:55:21  <chillcore> + 1 invalid
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18:55:32  <chillcore> ethe only one that floods is sea
18:55:50  <chillcore> if you want more then you need to know C++
18:56:05  <chillcore> noone is going to code it for you
18:56:18  <chillcore> because ...
18:56:41  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
18:56:44  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
18:56:45  <chillcore> if you want it bad enough you will do it but don't expect to do it by tomorrow
18:56:56  <chillcore> not even next week
18:57:37  <chillcore> so start at the basics ... get a grasp of C++ and make reivers flood without the confinment
18:57:50  <chillcore> then and only then you worry about the rest
18:58:01  <chillcore> yeah?
18:58:11  <samu> making rivers flood only the intended way?
18:58:23  <chillcore> no just malke em flood like sea
18:58:28  <chillcore> wherever
18:58:40  <chillcore> just don't care if they flood the entire map
18:58:43  <samu> woah, that will destroy towns and everyting lol
18:58:44  <chillcore> just make em flood
18:58:46  <samu> ok i understand nopw
18:58:53  <chillcore> Yay
18:59:10  <chillcore> who cares what it destroys you are testing
18:59:35  <samu> that means i also have to install visual studio again
18:59:40  <samu> why did i uninstall it :(
18:59:51  <chillcore> you think  I was caring about glitches much when I started helping with moreheightlevels?
18:59:56  <chillcore> not in the least
19:00:08  <chillcore> just see if we could make terrin higher and go from there
19:00:11  <samu> if i have to create the .exe
19:00:18  <chillcore> ofcourse
19:01:06  <chillcore> we had town way up there and labels 50 tiles lower :P
19:01:19  <chillcore> trains running nowhere near tracks that kind of stuff
19:02:05  <chillcore> so make it flow and then ...
19:03:50  <chillcore> you have a spare HDD samy? or an empty USB that is reasonably big?
19:04:19  <chillcore> install linux and have a blast instead of fighting windoze ;)
19:04:36  <frosch123> today you run virtual machines :)
19:04:47  <frosch123> i have like 10 of them
19:04:54  <chillcore> that too ...
19:04:56  <frosch123> no need for dual boot anymore or stuff
19:05:28  <chillcore> talking of VM ... does win 8 run a bit in that?
19:06:06  <chillcore> then I can keep that other HDD gaming/steam only hehe
19:06:07  <frosch123> no idea, operating systems from before vms existed run excellent
19:06:14  <samu> im on windows 7
19:06:44  <frosch123> for win98 you need some over-clocker's tool, to make the cpu sleep when windows is idle
19:07:03  <frosch123> other than that, i have no idea why you would need anything newer than xp in a vm
19:07:28  <frosch123> also, you cannot mess up the installation, since you can always recover :)
19:07:42  <chillcore> ok
19:08:46  <chillcore> I'll give it another go then whenever I get bored
19:09:24  <chillcore> still updating the stuffs after three/four months or so of no/no decent internet
19:10:37  <chillcore> dude sends me new wireless modem ... does not work ..; i call and he sais but I tested it here ... noone told him my antenna got shut down
19:10:44  <chillcore> not his fault but yeah
19:11:32  <chillcore> I switched ISP ... 50 down 6 up, wifi about 10
19:11:40  <chillcore> and I run a hotspot
19:12:07  <chillcore> free mobile for 250 mb which I will not usebecause after that is .10 euros / mb
19:12:33  <chillcore> but I got free wifi allover the world with "fon" too
19:12:52  <chillcore> downside is ... cost * 3.5
19:13:23  <chillcore> and no more unlimited ... still 500GB though
19:13:32  <chillcore> anyhoo I degress
19:14:12  <chillcore> hmm wait I lied after  500GB I go slower that is all
19:15:06  <samu> im into something
19:15:07  <samu>
19:17:20  <chillcore> I still can sell my old contract though ... sais so in my contract ... vely vely cheap 131 euros a month if you prepay 2 years
19:17:22  <chillcore> hehe
19:17:33  <chillcore> 13 not 131
19:18:13  <chillcore> samu you expect peeps to open your lin kand guess what you are looking at?
19:18:20  <NGC3982> V453000: I have noticed something with RAWR that i can't seem to find any documentation (or error reporting regarding) anywhere. When using RAWR on a dedicated server, i notice almost nobody can join the game. They become disconnected due to topped out max_join_time.
19:18:27  *** roidal [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1]
19:19:15  <NGC3982> V453000: I have investigated my own server, and i experience the same thing on LAN. It seems to stop downloading and then 'ping out'. I have no idea if this is server/game/GRF related.
19:19:42  <NGC3982> V453000: But it might be a good thing for you to know, if you stumble upon something similar. :-)
19:30:23  <Alberth> rawr shouldn't have to do with it, all clients have that data locally
19:32:14  <Alberth>  ?
19:34:28  <andythenorth> urgh
19:34:31  * andythenorth broke python
19:34:36  <andythenorth> never upgrade anything
19:38:15  * chillcore remains Jailbroken at older revision
19:39:35  <frosch123> <- that's the only meaningful solution i can come up with for the gui zooming of the chatbox
19:39:44  <NGC3982> Alberth: I'll take a look. Thanks.
19:40:21  <chillcore> not sure if giving away game to apple is wise ... then again not sure if it is wise to let known fuckery (pardon me my french) frome some developers is wise neither
19:40:32  <chillcore> choices choices .... hehehe
19:42:09  <chillcore> apple security is beneath all levels on iOS ... no wonder they keep their garden walled:(
19:42:51  <planetmaker> frosch123, the comment is wrong then, I think: +   uint16 network_chat_box_width_pct;       ///< width of the chat box in pixels
19:43:11  <frosch123> s/pixels/percent/ :)
19:43:21  <planetmaker> :)
19:46:02  <Alberth> looks ok
19:46:35  * andythenorth getting RSI from ‘which python'
19:46:40  <andythenorth> and rm -r :P
19:48:10  <Alberth> rm -r /  :p
19:48:32  <planetmaker> rm -rf /* :P
19:48:39  <planetmaker> let's make it thorough :P
19:48:59  <Alberth> su rm -rf /*
19:49:36  <andythenorth> I’ve seen that done in a video
19:49:40  <andythenorth> OS X keeps going for some time
19:49:43  <andythenorth> several minutes
19:49:46  <andythenorth> then it gets...wrong
19:50:22  <Alberth> no doubt :)
19:50:32  <chillcore> hehe there is this game on windoze too ... you play and it eats files ... forgot name
19:50:46  <chillcore> great way to have last play with HDD
19:50:47  <andythenorth> yay, no more “Symbol not found: __PyInt_AsInt”
19:51:01  <andythenorth> sometimes you have to play hunt the eggs :(
19:51:59  <andythenorth> it’s always hard to know whether to play that before or after “destroy the virtualenv”, “update ports”, “rebuild python”
19:55:59  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
19:56:50  <andythenorth> stack overflow can lead to presumptous troubleshooting :P
19:57:04  <andythenorth> “I solved this by buying a new computer”
19:58:36  <chillcore> Hi FLHerne
19:58:51  <FLHerne> chillcore: Evening!
19:59:00  <frosch123> planetmaker: you are very destructive today :) that's already the second time
19:59:36  <planetmaker> hu?
19:59:54  <chillcore> FLHerne ... has been a while. How are you?
19:59:54  <frosch123> first hg strip, now rm -rf :)
20:00:10  <planetmaker> oh :)
20:00:24  <planetmaker> hg strip is harmless in that comparison :P
20:00:29  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27144 /trunk/src (3 files in 3 dirs) (2015-02-12 20:00:23 UTC)
20:00:30  <DorpsGek> -Change: The chatbox-width setting now uses percent of screen width instead of pixels.
20:00:41  <FLHerne> chillcore: Still busy with all this learning stuff
20:00:53  <FLHerne> chillcore: And cold, because it's February
20:00:57  <chillcore> coolios dorpsgek
20:02:41  <chillcore> learning stuff ... might have to give you rendezvous in minecraft so you can tell me all about it.
20:03:47  <chillcore> server is back up but I need access to my skydrive for our old game FLHerne
20:04:20  <FLHerne> chillcore: Oh, that's still running? Tekkitised 1.2.5 is perhaps a bit ancient now though :-/
20:04:57  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
20:05:02  <chillcore> FLHerne It has been down for a while ... currenlty running Mn,ster as stresstest
20:05:14  <chillcore> *monster
20:05:15  <FLHerne> Coincidentally, I played Minecraft this week for the first time in months
20:05:22  <FLHerne> Was visiting people
20:05:41  <chillcore> I'll send you details in PM in a bit if you want
20:06:52  <chillcore> And yeah tekkit classic is a bit old ... just that it was such a cool world
20:06:59  <FLHerne> chillcore: I'd definitely be interested, might not be able to play very much for a few months though
20:07:20  <chillcore> no worries about that ..; rented for 250 days for the moment
20:07:59  <chillcore> but I want to see if I can salvage that game at all before making anouncment
20:08:19  <chillcore> no game changing this time or at least a lot less ..; my time is rather limited too
20:08:28  <FLHerne> Personally, I'd prefer a 1.7.10-based thing, there are some really neat things in newer mods
20:08:42  <FLHerne> But it's your fancy server, and I never did finish that nuclear plant
20:09:11  <FLHerne> Not the one someone else did finish
20:11:22  <chillcore> True ...
20:11:25  <FLHerne> The rail system ws getting quite fun
20:11:48  <FLHerne> But Archimedes Ships looks awesome, always wanted a strip-mining airship
20:12:38  *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
20:13:09  <chillcore> just sad that this one guy had to explode a nuke... he thought it would heve the effect of tnt ... tha's why I need to check skydrive first
20:13:35  <chillcore> it's locked for 30 days because I changed security
20:13:39  <FLHerne> Did it destroy anything particularly disastrous?
20:13:58  <chillcore> not that much ... just a bit of mining
20:14:05  <FLHerne> Big crater could always be used for something else
20:14:08  <chillcore> still big hole though
20:14:18  <chillcore> yeah ...
20:14:34  <chillcore> I can show you if you want
20:14:36  <FLHerne> Giant concert venue or something
20:15:11  <chillcore> I am currently checking a patch
20:15:34  <chillcore> I'll change the server to classic and send you new IP
20:15:57  <chillcore> then peeps can talk OpenTTD again here ... :P
20:27:28  <chillcore> FLHerne: check your inbox ;)
20:27:43  *** quorzom [] has joined #openttd
20:28:11  <chillcore> but if you don't have time now that is cool too ... I'll just change to monster then untill you do
20:28:31  <chillcore> peeps are kinda playing from time to time
20:28:49  <chillcore> not many yet ... testing first
20:29:22  <chillcore> you may spawn at start since beds have been moved too
20:31:16  * FLHerne pokes at TechnicLauncher
20:31:25  <FLHerne> Doesn't seem to like shiny new Java
20:32:12  <chillcore> 7 should do?
20:33:27  <chillcore> I do not even know whhat current version is TBH ... I kinda banned Flash and anything else that uses LSOs
20:35:14  <FLHerne> chillcore: Hm, 'Install' button for Classic in the hideous new launcher doesn't seem to work?
20:35:38  <chillcore> hmm ?
20:35:48  <FLHerne> Does work for non-Classic, but not whatever the other random modpack I tried was
20:36:09  <FLHerne> Looks 'clicked' (darker blue), but does nothing
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20:37:08  <chillcore> it could be they changed some stuffs ... since they basically fetched your login for you then said they could no longer do that
20:37:22  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> no need for dual boot anymore or stuff <-- the last time i tried VMs, modern games didn't work. and for the non-modern games i have wine, which runs much better than VMs
20:37:43  <chillcore> FLHerne then Notch said*
20:38:21  <frosch123> true, i play factorio in a chroot
20:38:36  <chillcore> FLHerne I could send you my folder somehow? I am 100ù sure you have bought minecraft so ...
20:38:49  <chillcore> darn keyboard is new and not yet configerd
20:39:00  <FLHerne> chillcore: It's the Technic-launcher's modpack downloading that's playing up
20:39:01  <chillcore> 100%*
20:39:08  <FLHerne> AFAIK that doesn't involve auth at all
20:39:10  <chillcore> yes
20:39:16  <chillcore> yes it does
20:39:30  <FLHerne> But they don't seem to provide the plain jar in any sane manner
20:39:31  <chillcore> that was the prob ... i does no longer but it did
20:39:38  <chillcore> exactly
20:40:37  <chillcore> hmm ... I'll change back to monster untill we figure this out ;)
20:42:22  <chillcore> ip remains the same but I stillneed to whitelist you, recommended version
20:45:16  <FLHerne> Hrm, I don't think I can be bothered with Tekkit's deliberately-broken launcher mess tonight
20:46:13  <chillcore> no sweat ... we have time and t is kinda a mess yeah
20:48:43  <chillcore> your ingame name was hufxxx right?
20:48:53  <FLHerne> hufpuf
20:49:05  <FLHerne> Not sure why, bring on the name-changing ability
20:49:14  <chillcore> ye that  ... did not want to write it exposed like this
20:49:44  <andythenorth> can anyone stop sunshare?
20:49:47  <andythenorth> it’s a broken record
20:49:54  <andythenorth> multiple forum requests, and pms
20:50:06  <chillcore> anyhoo you should be whitelisted for monster too now FLHerne
20:50:17  <chillcore> no rules except no griefing
20:50:27  <andythenorth> the answer I’ve just deleted is
20:50:54  <FLHerne> chillcore: monster?
20:51:17  <chillcore> just tell him to use forum andy so that it helps more peeps ;) that's what I do when peeps pm or mail me
20:51:27  <andythenorth> he’s already using the forum :P
20:51:32  <andythenorth> repetitively
20:51:55  <chillcore> tell him that pm only benefits him and you prefer not wasting your time like that?
20:52:08  <chillcore> ah ok he forums ...
20:52:14  <chillcore> hmm ...
20:52:46  <chillcore> FLHerne it is in the FTB launcher
20:53:09  <FLHerne> Oh, at least that was slightly less of a buggy mess
20:53:20  <chillcore> you may want to delete a mod or two though that cause a bit of lagging
20:53:27  <chillcore> client mods
20:53:44  <chillcore> I'll have to ask my little buddy which they were
20:53:52  <chillcore> yeah
20:56:57  <chillcore> frosch  ... that is a whole lot of cleaning you did there ... MHL fixes
20:57:31  <frosch123> yes, that's why it was so annoying
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20:58:11  <chillcore> still need to wrap my head around it but it looks pretty good (except them FIX_ME's)
20:58:36  <chillcore> no casting to int there?
20:58:54  <chillcore> or should it be fixed in a better way?
20:59:00  <frosch123> anyway, adf posted some more fixes to fs
20:59:07  <chillcore> I dunno at this point
20:59:12  <chillcore> ah ok
21:03:59  * andythenorth -> sleep
21:04:01  <andythenorth> bye
21:04:01  *** andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
21:04:11  *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:c591:83e8:24fe:5aba] has quit [Quit: .]
21:04:16  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:04:45  <chillcore> FLHerne ..; in FTB launcher > options > advanced ... you want to disable google analytics
21:05:04  <chillcore> FLHerne they infested that too it seems
21:09:58  *** Quatroking [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:11:07  <FLHerne> chillcore: Thanks
21:11:22  <FLHerne> Is it MindCrack (per PM), or Monster as you said here?
21:11:56  <chillcore> Monster ... need skydrive for the old Mindcrack game
21:12:06  <chillcore> I have some but not the latest
21:12:15  <chillcore> HDD is locked and ...
21:12:29  <chillcore> don't feel like going to microsoft forums
21:12:48  <FLHerne> Waugh, I should get a faster HDD
21:13:03  <chillcore> I bought genuine windows offline ... but when I called them they said it was not they that sold it to me so ...
21:13:13  <chillcore> I call BS
21:13:36  <chillcore> anyhoo I got two of them and I need to ask help online
21:14:01  <FLHerne> [insert linux-related mutterings]
21:14:28  <chillcore> When I went to store they checked my disk but said there was no prob with my hardware and I needed to ask MS
21:14:36  <chillcore> yeah linux for the win
21:14:50  <chillcore> the only thing I use windows is games anymore
21:15:07  <chillcore> I refuse to store anything on a windows disk  anymore
21:15:54  <chillcore> I got my bleeping ubuntu 9.04 still ... this is the third PC I have put it in and the thing keeps running
21:15:57  <chillcore> hehe
21:16:06  <chillcore> not that I use it anymore but still
21:16:17  <chillcore> I can get to my data
21:17:36  <chillcore> so now MS needs to explain to me how to bypass the HDD asking for password when I did not even put one on it
21:17:49  <chillcore> Great thinking ... vely safe for security
21:18:08  <chillcore> just give away game online lol
21:18:30  <chillcore> anyhoo
21:18:51  * chillcore is mad at a lot of companies
21:20:27  <chillcore> How I long for the days when you could just put a cd in your drive and go without the BS
21:21:05  <chillcore> these days they want you to be online so 10 companies can track you and then sell your data to 1000 more
21:21:19  <chillcore> THX a**ho**es
21:21:58  <FLHerne> chillcore: Not whitelisted, it says
21:22:10  <chillcore> hmm 1 sec
21:22:53  <chillcore> try again I may have forgotten to save file
21:24:41  <chillcore> or server needs rebot ... won't take long
21:25:22  <FLHerne> chillcore: Something about mechworks meshfilters now
21:25:52  <chillcore> I am rebooting to make sure
21:27:22  <FLHerne> This is with Monster, 1.6.4 based
21:28:07  <chillcore> it was running fine untill now ... back up just took slightly longer the usual
21:28:44  <chillcore> it 's 22.30 in germany dads are playing hahaha
21:28:54  <chillcore> hogging the net
21:30:14  <samu> chillcore: i can't find the sea
21:30:23  <chillcore> I am on it so it should work?
21:30:30  <chillcore> FLHerne
21:30:31  <FLHerne> chillcore: again
21:30:42  * FLHerne suspects wrong modpck version
21:30:49  <samu> in the flood text, all I can find is a MP_WATER
21:31:06  <samu> i click on it, and i get confused, i don't know how to follow this
21:31:08  <FLHerne> Monster v1.1.1, MC 1.6.4
21:31:42  <chillcore> if you got recommended? FLHerne yeah that should work ... lemme start steam and ask which mods you need to delete
21:32:03  <chillcore> I thought it would work regardless of heving them still in your pack
21:32:14  <chillcore> sorry for the troubs ;)
21:32:17  <FLHerne> chillcore: Other way, if I'm reading the message right
21:32:34  <FLHerne> It's complaining about the _client_ lacking microblock definitions
21:32:56  <chillcore> hmm that is strange I did not have that prob
21:33:07  <chillcore> one mod was some trees
21:33:14  <chillcore> and the other ...
21:33:45  <FLHerne> Definitely Monster 1.1.1?
21:33:47  <chillcore> booting steam too ..; pc goes boom sson-ish
21:34:11  <FLHerne> 'recommended' doesn't seem to be a thing in FTB, it was techniclauncher with that?
21:34:28  <FLHerne> Ignore above
21:34:36  <FLHerne> I'm blind
21:34:41  <chillcore> hehe
21:35:11  <chillcore> samu I am kinda doing three things already at the moment
21:35:21  <samu> :)
21:36:10  <chillcore> have you checked all file starting with water samu?
21:37:40  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
21:39:04  <chillcore> FLHerne .... delete/disable Natura and DyeTrees in your modpack
21:40:06  <FLHerne> chillcore: Should I enable the ones other than that?
21:40:17  <FLHerne> Some seem to be disabled by default, which is odd
21:40:21  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
21:40:39  <chillcore> at your choice ... they are client side
21:40:55  <chillcore> but them two cause lags
21:41:08  <chillcore> map ...
21:41:14  <chillcore> you want map
21:41:52  <chillcore> and memory max 3.75
21:43:21  <FLHerne> Nope, not on this thing
21:43:40  <FLHerne> That would definitely be a bad idea :P
21:44:16  <chillcore> more will give you worse performance
21:44:24  <chillcore> unleess you got less haha
21:47:08  <chillcore> samu: line 50 ... click?
21:47:37  <chillcore> hmm
21:47:56  <chillcore> you've got the source on your pc? samu
21:48:13  <samu> yes
21:48:18  <samu> water_class_sea
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21:48:27  <samu> and that's all it says, I'm so perplexed
21:48:31  <chillcore> search in water_cmd.cpp ?
21:48:52  <chillcore> if that exists that is
21:49:02  <chillcore> did not check
21:49:21  <samu> water_tile_river has to have water_class_sea?
21:50:31  <chillcore> come now samu ... there are three classes yeah ... what class could be rivers
21:51:08  <samu> water_class_river is river
21:51:17  <chillcore> for what you want to do ... yo need to change the code so that rivers behave like sea yes
21:51:35  <chillcore> but don't assign sea to river code
21:51:46  <chillcore> steal code from sea and apply to river
21:51:54  <chillcore> but but expect strange things to happen
21:52:19  <chillcore> like I told you I have no clue how to proceed neither
21:53:10  <chillcore> and you really need some basic C++ knowledge
21:53:20  <chillcore> you know any programming languages at all?
21:53:24  <samu> nop
21:53:30  <chillcore> there is your prob
21:53:35  <samu> i try to decipher
21:53:36  <FLHerne> chillcore: Disabled those two, failed. Enabled all others, still failed.
21:53:38  <samu> and fail
21:53:52  <chillcore> darn .. both
21:54:26  <chillcore> I don't get it FLHerne ... I mean it works for me
21:55:27  <chillcore> and version is 1.1.1 indeed ... just checked
21:55:41  <chillcore> hmm
21:57:13  <chillcore> samu
21:57:32  <chillcore> referenced by is the functions that uses a function
21:58:34  <chillcore> still you are in way over your head and will get frustrated
21:58:40  <chillcore> take it easy
21:59:00  <chillcore> do something simpler first
21:59:10  <chillcore> have a look at patches at the forum
21:59:15  <chillcore> see how they do things
21:59:41  <samu> References MakeWater(), OWNER_WATER, and WATER_CLASS_SEA. - i see that WATER_CLASS_RIVER is missing
22:00:04  <chillcore> is it?
22:00:35  <samu> for what I was supposed to do
22:00:42  <samu> have river behave like sea
22:00:52  <samu> or maybe i have no idea what im talking about
22:01:00  <chillcore> what about MakeRiver ?
22:01:15  <samu> oh :)
22:01:22  <chillcore> huhu ...
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22:02:54  <samu> static void MakeRiver
22:02:57  <samu> hmm chinese
22:03:31  <chillcore> no C++ samu
22:03:50  <chillcore> again this is what peeps have been trying to tell you
22:04:11  <chillcore> read some tutorial pon the language
22:04:21  <chillcore> s pon/on
22:04:43  <chillcore> We can  not hold your hand and show you letter bu letter
22:04:55  <chillcore> that takes too much time and effort
22:05:21  <chillcore> I myself have been messing around for about 25 years now
22:05:35  <chillcore> and I still feel like I know nada sometimes
22:05:46  <chillcore> which is the case often enough
22:06:07  <chillcore> some things are easy because I struggled before
22:06:35  <chillcore> other things I never saw before are as confusing to me as they are to you
22:07:09  <chillcore> FLHerne you get an error message? otherwise come on steam for a sec and I'll pass you to my friend?
22:07:21  <chillcore> he's better at this pack
22:07:25  <samu> i've failed IT class in university
22:07:29  <samu> classes
22:07:32  <samu> several of them
22:07:40  <samu> and dropped
22:09:21  <samu> when i was writting some more complex program, someone deleted about 70% of the lines I've done
22:09:29  <chillcore> fair enough samu ... but I left shool at  15 and never saw uni to begin with
22:09:31  <samu> and replaced that with a few lines of code
22:09:32  <FLHerne> [21:30] <FLHerne> chillcore:
22:09:39  <FLHerne> chillcore: Not changed
22:09:41  <samu> and it would achieve the same
22:09:51  <samu> it's something I see here
22:09:53  <chillcore> If I can do it so can you ... don't expect to get it in one day
22:09:56  <samu> in this code
22:10:19  <samu> something being replaced by some other thing which in itself probably replaces other parts
22:10:39  <samu> a giant referring code
22:10:46  <samu> which I can never follow
22:10:49  <samu> i get lost
22:10:53  <FLHerne> chillcore: Might sleep now though
22:11:30  <chillcore> re-install FLHerne ... he sais
22:11:36  <chillcore> ok np
22:11:49  <FLHerne> Maybe at the weekend
22:11:53  <chillcore> my friend is sweegee on steam
22:12:00  <FLHerne> Goodnight :-)
22:12:07  <chillcore> goodnight
22:12:14  <samu> i thought i was a complete pro at IT before venturing into uni
22:12:18  <chillcore> I'll tell him that maybe you will invite him
22:12:23  <chillcore> or can he invite you
22:12:25  <chillcore> ?
22:12:26  <samu> then i realised that wasn't what I was looking for
22:12:47  <chillcore> he's young but very friendly and helpfull FLHerne
22:13:09  <samu> turns out everyone knew linux, and i didn't undestand crap of it
22:13:15  <samu> and all classes were on linux
22:13:20  <FLHerne> chillcore: Possibly I don't tend to use Steam's social stuff at all
22:13:21  <samu> and i couldn't just do anything
22:13:41  <samu> i failed horribly
22:13:42  <FLHerne> You're still my only 'friend' (?) on there, IIRC
22:13:42  <chillcore> he's no stalker if that is what you're worried about but as you wish
22:13:52  <chillcore> ah like that
22:13:58  <chillcore> the weekend it is then
22:14:04  <chillcore> sleep tight
22:14:30  <chillcore> insulfrog is there too btw and some others ... wanderer
22:14:36  <FLHerne> Not bothered about that, after all I do use my (abbreviated) real name everywhere,,,
22:14:58  <chillcore> I see well let's leave it like that then
22:15:03  <chillcore> ;)
22:15:08  <FLHerne> k, goodnight again
22:15:16  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
22:17:49  <chillcore> ok samu but without trying you'll never succeed ...
22:18:27  <chillcore> you learn from your misstakes not from the successes
22:18:40  <chillcore> what you succeed yo already learned
22:18:45  <chillcore> anyhoo
22:20:12  <chillcore>
22:20:26  <chillcore> that is about the easiest book I read so far
22:20:34  <chillcore> nicely explained and all
22:20:40  <chillcore> some may disagree
22:21:00  <chillcore> the online version is freely downloadable
22:21:07  <chillcore> for offline use
22:22:55  <chillcore> few so much talking today ... chatting is not good for me
22:22:57  <chillcore> hahaha
22:26:45  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
22:27:20  <samu> i downloaded volume 1 and 2
22:27:29  <samu> :)
22:27:48  <chillcore> cool but you still need to read them too
22:28:02  <chillcore> :P
22:29:19  <chillcore> note: I have not finisched these myself
22:29:25  <chillcore> yet
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22:53:01  <Wolf01> 'night
22:53:06  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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23:21:38  <juzza1> have there been some changes wrt sprite aligner? 1x zoom sprites move 1/4 pixel per click in sprite aligner
23:23:05  <juzza1> have to click a lot and divide the offset shown in the sprite aligner by 4 to get i right in nml
23:41:31  <chillcore> goodnight
23:41:39  *** chillcore [~chillcore@] has quit [Quit: knock knock]
23:59:25  <juzza1> just tested with 1.4 and the sprite aligner works correctly (moving 1px per click)

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