Log for #openttd on 19th March 2015:
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00:05:39  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:06:43  <UukGoblin> ok, so my current plan is as follows: 1. Add an array of 16-bit variables called "gs_specific" to each station (one gs_specific value for each cargo type), 2. Have GSs update this array to whatever they like for each cargo type, 3. In the NewGRF cargo_profit_calc callback, set the currently unused extra_callback_info1 to (source_station(gs_specific) << 16) | dest_station(gs_specific)
00:07:58  <UukGoblin> this way the GS could compute some kind of cargo value for each station, in my case the value would depend on how far the station is from a nearest mine
00:08:07  <UukGoblin> and the NewGRF could use that value to alter the profits accordingly
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00:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> when making such interfaces, remember that you cannot force the player to use both the GS and the matching NewGRF at the same time
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00:19:32  <UukGoblin> oh... I hoped they could depend on each other or something
00:19:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no
00:19:51  <Samu> omg, this is harder than i anticipated
00:20:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not even sure GS can detect whether a specific NewGRF is loaded
00:20:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: what else is new?
00:21:19  <Samu> must do this for buoys, oilfield station, objects, oil rig industry, dock water tile, lock upper and lower tiles, ship depot north and south tiles.
00:21:35  <Samu> and i hope i'm not forgetting anything
00:22:03  <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, well, I'd put it in a description. If someone used only the NewGRF, then it could detect that because all gs_specifics would be set to zero; if someone only used the GS then all the gs_specific values would simply be ignored
00:22:03  <Samu> i dont know which objects can be built on water
00:22:56  <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: and if someone made a GS which reuses the gs_specific for something entirely unrelated?
00:23:58  <Samu> what are objects other than transmitters and lighthouse?
00:23:58  <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, hm. Well, then the two would be incompatible.
00:24:14  <chillcore> that is 7 patchies an not 1 patch samu?
00:24:53  <Samu> yes, but objects are confusing me, I dont know of any object that can be placed on water
00:24:55  <chillcore> the stuff you forfgot will most likely pop up as you go
00:24:56  <UukGoblin> a good dependency resolution mechanism would be nice to have, but that's currently out of scope for me ;-) This ASOIF scenario I'm playing, for instance, is spouting errors to me already about a missing AI
00:25:14  <Samu> yet they have waterclasses
00:25:25  <chillcore> marico? samu
00:25:33  <Samu> ?
00:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: objects can be anything the NewGRF wishes. wind turbines, seashore decorations, fake airport tiles, ...
00:25:48  <Eddi|zuHause> opengfx+landscape has some
00:26:00  <Eddi|zuHause> marico
00:26:02  <Eddi|zuHause> VAST
00:26:09  <Eddi|zuHause> loads of others i'm sure
00:26:32  <Samu> oh, so great, how could i deal with something I don't hae control of
00:27:19  <Eddi|zuHause> you specify the parts that you do have control over
00:29:49  <Samu> i am worried those newgrfs will screw things
00:29:54  <chillcore> also they are all "just" objects with a different look ... don't complicate stuffs more then you have to
00:30:51  <Samu> if you build those objects on canals that were built on rivers, what exactly can i do about it?
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00:34:20  <Samu> let me look at MakeObject, if such thing exists
00:34:50  <chillcore> why would you do anything different then what you do with canals?
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00:35:23  <chillcore> if they do not do that already now ...
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00:41:31  <Samu> they don't :(
00:41:58  <Samu> i must be doing this wrong
00:43:05  <Samu> when i build a ship depot on a canal that was built on a river, the information that the canal was built on a river is gone
00:43:22  <Samu> and for everything else, the same
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00:45:03  <Sylf> when you build a canal on a river, isn't that same thing as demolishing the river first and building canal in its place?  or is that different on some recent patch?
00:45:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so, what exactly have you been doing for the last few months?
00:54:10  <Samu> upon demolishing
00:54:26  <Samu> brb, i must make sure what's happening
00:54:35  <Samu> something is missing in-between
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00:58:47  <Samu> i built an object from some newgrf on a canal built on river, the information was kept
00:59:00  <Samu> then i demolished the object, the information is gone
00:59:03  <Samu> :(
00:59:22  <Samu> for ship depot and dock it's workign differently
00:59:56  <Samu> i build ship depot or dock on canal built on river, the information is gone already
01:00:21  <Samu> demolishing afterwards won't matter, it's already broken
01:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause> great. now you know the two exact places where you need to fix things
01:02:18  <NGC3982>
01:03:44  <Samu> industry tile behaves the same
01:03:55  <Samu> as ship depot/dock
01:04:05  <Samu> only object appears to be difffernts
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01:08:37  <chillcore> wiki is up so most likely django out for a walk again?
01:09:02  <chillcore> ^^^ TrueBrain
01:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause> twice in two days of operation?
01:13:58  <Eddi|zuHause> not a good record :p
01:14:25  <Compu> openttd website is down again
01:14:29  <Compu> bleeeeeh
01:14:30  <ST2> django seems outdauted (the movie), and D is mute xD
01:15:01  <ST2> but it's wierd, 2 nights in a row
01:15:03  <ST2> :S
01:15:17  <Compu> is there an android version of openttd?
01:15:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the term is "silent" :p
01:15:22  <ST2> note: night where I am ^^
01:15:45  <ST2> @Eddi: correct, "silent" :P
01:15:56  <ST2> my mistake ^^
01:15:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Compu: yes. there is an inofficial port in the forum
01:16:02  <Compu> k
01:16:12  <NGC3982> Do we have any mirror to the latest stable version?
01:16:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
01:16:28  * NGC3982 wants to play something while waiting for windows update.
01:16:34  <ST2>
01:16:40  <ST2> it's 1.4.4
01:16:59  <NGC3982> Thanks!
01:17:05  <ST2> np :)
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01:40:54  <chillcore> nappy time
01:41:01  <chillcore> good nght all o/
01:41:06  <ST2> so, gn8 time ^^
01:41:08  <ST2> o/
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01:48:07  <UukGoblin> can there only be one active GS?
01:51:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
01:51:14  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it'd be a compatibility nightmare
01:51:50  <UukGoblin> oh, that solves a lot of the compatibility problems we've talked about earlier ;-)
01:53:00  <Eddi|zuHause> not really, but whatever...
01:53:27  <Eddi|zuHause> if you want your code to be reusable by other scripts, make a library instead
01:53:28  <UukGoblin> so, out of curiosity, what's a scenario?
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01:54:55  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, a savegame with prebuilt infrastructure
01:55:15  <UukGoblin> ah.
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02:02:57  <UukGoblin> <- getting this when trying to compile firs
02:03:08  <UukGoblin> "Unrecognized identifier 'ANIM' encountered"
02:08:03  <UukGoblin> probably nml is too old, I have 0.3.1
02:15:31  <Samu> anyone around?
02:15:47  <Samu> i was able to fix for the lock
02:16:01  <Samu> but i still fail for ship depot
02:16:41  <NGC3982> I'm around, but i don't seem to be able to support you.
02:16:46  <NGC3982> I'm completely stunned at the momen
02:16:48  <NGC3982> +t.
02:17:04  <NGC3982> Just installed my new PC. It's a i5 GTX960 PC with 16GB ram and a SSD.
02:17:18  <NGC3982> I came from HP dual-core laptops with 1GB of RAM
02:17:59  <NGC3982> The difference is so awesome i can barely handle it.
02:18:04  <UukGoblin> ;-]
02:18:19  <Samu> nice system
02:18:37  <UukGoblin> should be pretty fast, yeah :-)
02:18:55  <NGC3982> Simply using explorer is a breeze
02:18:57  <UukGoblin> 1GB of RAM... ouch!
02:19:19  * NGC3982 notices wupdate has taken an hour.
02:21:34  <Samu> grrr why i fail
02:21:48  * ST2 thinks NGC3982 will notice that every 2nd tuesday's... every month
02:22:11  <ST2> it's when MS releases updates
02:23:40  <ST2> Samu, both of our test servers are now on RC1
02:24:05  <ST2> none with code changes you suggested, on server side
02:24:24  <Samu> i can't download rc1 yet
02:24:34  <Samu> 504 Gateway Time-out
02:24:35  <ST2> you can
02:25:10  <ST2> actually, you can download ALL OpenTTD versions
02:25:11  <ST2>
02:25:27  <ST2> you need the correct mirror ^^
02:26:09  <ST2> hope it helps ^^
02:26:13  <Samu> building a ship depot now maintains the canal on river information
02:26:28  <Samu> but when i remove ship depot... boom, information is gone
02:26:32  <Samu> why
02:26:34  <Samu> what is wrong
02:27:02  <Samu> i have the code there already
02:27:14  <ST2> I understand your view, but look at me as the person that made a patch to have maps with only land
02:27:15  <Samu> if it worked for the lock tiles, why wouldn't it work
02:27:17  <ST2> no water
02:27:25  <Samu> for ship depot :(
02:29:14  <ST2> Samu, link above worked? there you can get any version you want ^^
02:30:35  <Samu> im a bit busy trying to figure out this thing
02:31:20  <Samu> yes that link works
02:33:44  <Samu> grr why u no work
02:34:48  <Samu>
02:34:53  <Samu> i made this so far
02:35:26  <UukGoblin> gawd I hate python and its whitespace sensitivity
02:35:50  <ST2> well, someone suggested you to make simpliest things - you're trying to touch the core without knowing the basics of C++, never gets easier :S
02:36:29  <ST2> was to Samu ^^
02:37:07  <ST2> just in case UukGoblin missunderstanding my line :)
02:37:53  <Samu> this code works for building ship depot
02:37:58  <Samu> fails for removing ship depot
02:38:06  <Samu> works for building canal
02:38:09  <Samu> works for removing canal
02:38:17  <Samu> works for building lock
02:38:19  <UukGoblin> ST2, hah. Actually, touching the C++ core is easier for me than faffing around with pypnml ;-)
02:38:20  <Samu> works for removing lock
02:38:39  <Samu> now i don't get why it is failing for removing ship depot :(
02:38:47  <Samu> and i am out of time today
02:38:49  <UukGoblin> but I can totally understand people who feel the opposite ;-)
02:39:15  <ST2> UukGoblin: I guess yes, but my reply appeared right after yours... was only to dnt confuse things xD
02:39:24  <UukGoblin> yeah yeah, I know ;-)
02:39:33  <UukGoblin> confusion avoided.
02:39:46  <ST2> :)
02:40:20  <ST2> because Samu is messing with ttd code without understanding the basics
02:40:34  <UukGoblin> yup, figured. I am too, actually ;-)
02:40:36  <ST2> and that leads to the massive questions arouns
02:41:02  <ST2> well, I'm not a programmer
02:41:08  <Samu> works for building object
02:41:13  <Samu> fails for removing object
02:41:28  <Samu> fails for building dock, fails for removing dock
02:41:48  <Samu> fails for building industry, fails for removing industry
02:41:55  <Samu> because yeah... i haven't finished
02:42:09  <ST2> Samu: keep on trying :)
02:42:11  <Samu> now i'm off to bed, cyas later
02:42:16  <ST2> cya
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02:43:19  <UukGoblin> so it's like python generates python, which then generates pnml, which is then compiled by python to nml, which is finally compiled to grf. I only need to learn all of these steps ;-)
02:44:08  <UukGoblin> or maybe I'll bother some of you guys here: how would I add a 'profit' callback to one of the cargos in firs/src/cargos/ ?
02:44:21  <ST2> personally, I love the person that finds a needle in a haystack and starts asking entire town why was it here ^^
02:44:36  <ST2> sorry, was describing Samu xD
02:44:42  <UukGoblin> hehe ;-)
02:45:17  <ST2> btw, I'm not a GS expert
02:45:44  <ST2> but saw some chat's - query All industries
02:45:49  <ST2> vehicles
02:45:55  <ST2> of all companies
02:46:08  <UukGoblin> I didn't even get to the GS part yet
02:46:13  <ST2> won't create a GS massive usage
02:46:16  <ST2> oh
02:46:28  <UukGoblin> ST2, nah, my current plan is a bit different
02:47:19  <UukGoblin> I decided the original approach like with CashDrainGS isn't too nice as it won't display per-vehicle profits properly
02:47:39  <ST2> well, my 1st attempt to create a global Cargo server was monitoring that
02:47:49  <UukGoblin> ST2, so now I'll just query all the industries for all cargoes at the beginning, and just update some values whenever a new industry is created, from the GS
02:48:14  <ST2> because NoGo functions only gives you some info quarterly
02:48:43  <UukGoblin> I've just patched the core to provide the extra profit information to the NewGRF callbacks and I'm trying to test that (without knowing much about NewGRFs;-)
02:49:00  <ST2> ah
02:49:15  <ST2> a combination of newgrf's and a GS?
02:49:19  <UukGoblin> yeah
02:49:39  <ST2> but that GS will work with others newgrf's?
02:49:45  <UukGoblin> because I found a NewGRF is the only way I could hook into the income calculation at the right place
02:49:46  <ST2> or vice-versa
02:50:03  <UukGoblin> ST2, like Eddi|zuHause mentioned, compatibility might be a problem
02:50:30  <UukGoblin> so the safe answer for now is "no" :-)
02:51:14  <ST2> well, all servers I created in my community, with GS's I added, created, changed, etc... works in ALL map types and newgrf's
02:51:49  <ST2> and that's the way
02:52:06  <ST2> you can't make them newgrf specific
02:52:21  <UukGoblin> I guess I couuld make the GS part into a library
02:52:52  <UukGoblin> GS code only needs to be run on industry creation, and shouldn't really affect any part of the game, as it'll only update some new fields that aren't used by anyone else [yet]
02:53:13  <UukGoblin> NewGRF code has to be specific, because, well, it depends on the defined cargoes a lot
02:53:29  <ST2> industry creation includes the mapgen?
02:53:33  <UukGoblin> as I'm effectively changing the delivery payment logic
02:54:07  <UukGoblin> ST2, not sure yet how I'll do it... I think I'll leave mapgen alone, and just scan all created industries somewhere near ::Start() or sth
02:54:56  <ST2> many GS's mess with mapgen
02:55:09  <ST2> specially some CB's
02:55:13  <UukGoblin> actually... the new field is per STATION, not industry... so scratch that, I'll only need to run code when a station is created (or an industry changes)
02:55:37  <UukGoblin> so won't do anything at the beginning, when there are no stations
02:56:09  <ST2> if you catch station name, dnt forget the "old" cheat of station walking ^^
02:57:22  <ST2> hopefully, not new to you, right?
02:57:29  <UukGoblin> hm...
02:57:38  <UukGoblin> new indeed
02:57:44  <UukGoblin> but I think I'll be iterating via ID
02:57:56  <ST2> well, so you'll have a bad time
02:58:15  <ST2> players know how to go around many things
02:58:25  <UukGoblin> damn them ;-)
02:58:32  <ST2> and if you create a new thing... you must be prepared for that
02:58:51  <ST2> and think on how to avoid them
02:58:59  <UukGoblin> we'll see how it goes
02:59:09  <UukGoblin> I don't really have time to do any of this
02:59:12  <UukGoblin> but it's fun!
02:59:12  <ST2> that's the spirit :)
03:00:29  <ST2> "station walking" allows you to deliver water to a town, when a station is 300 tiles away, with a max spread of 7
03:00:55  <ST2> it's tricky :P
03:01:12  <UukGoblin> by building a set of connected stations or sth?
03:01:59  <ST2> well, not knowing the concept of "station walking", means that you must get more time ingames
03:02:15  <ST2> not easy to explain
03:02:32  <ST2> but the cheat name says it all ^^
03:02:49  <UukGoblin> but the more time I spend in game, the more baffled I get by the profit calculation
03:03:14  <ST2> that's something you have to measure then
03:03:19  <UukGoblin> I see an iron ore next to a steel mill, so what do I do? I try to find another iron ore somewhere on another corner of the map to maximize profit
03:03:48  <UukGoblin> it's... weird
03:04:10  <ST2> well, OpenTTD is a deliver game
03:04:28  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
03:04:32  <ST2> and as all deliver companies, paid by the distance
03:04:48  <ST2> hey luaduck :)
03:04:55  <ST2> morning :)
03:05:40  <UukGoblin> who would pay  000 to buy imported apples from argentina when you can get them locally for  ;-)
03:06:02  <ST2> UukGoblin, read above
03:06:04  <UukGoblin> yeah, I think I'm familiar with the station walking concept from in-game, I've used it a couple of times, just didn't call it that
03:06:39  <UukGoblin> ST2, paying by the distance is good, yes
03:07:02  <UukGoblin> ST2, it's just that industries should be reluctant to pay for a long distance transfer when the resource is available for less money locally
03:07:32  <ST2> closer is not always cheaper
03:07:44  <UukGoblin> i.e. it shouldn't be profitable for a transport company to deliver from china when the same thing can be bought in your town
03:07:52  <ST2> hopefully real life told you that too
03:07:55  <ST2> ^
03:07:58  <UukGoblin> ;-)
03:08:07  <UukGoblin> yeah
03:08:09  <UukGoblin> it's not
03:08:36  <ST2> so, why messing with that in a fucking game?
03:08:39  <UukGoblin> but with the current cost calculation, closer is ALWAYS less profitable
03:09:24  <ST2> OpenTTD already have subsidies, wich are almost on short deliveris
03:09:35  <ST2> that's your idea, right?
03:09:48  <UukGoblin> subsidies only last a year or so, don't they
03:09:58  <ST2> and?
03:10:12  <ST2> want subsidies for a lifetime?
03:10:22  <UukGoblin> not usable when you're designing a transportation network that should last for years
03:10:25  <luaduck> mornin' ST2
03:10:30  <ST2> o/
03:10:39  <UukGoblin> hrm, not quite ;-) I want the payments to make some more sense ;-)
03:11:01  <UukGoblin> subsidies... are fine as they are, yes, they could be made to last longer perhaps
03:11:06  <ST2> " transportation network" means long distance deliveries
03:11:12  <UukGoblin> yes
03:11:22  <ST2> unless you're trully bad in OpenTTD
03:11:33  <UukGoblin> I want long distance deliveries
03:12:10  <UukGoblin> if the only coal mine is at the other end of the map for a given power plant, then it should be totally as profitable as it is now for that route to pay a lot for the delivery
03:12:24  <ST2> and a 100K GBP allows you to deliver long enough to buy a new train... on 1st delivery
03:12:32  <ST2> loan*
03:13:13  <ST2> even on hard servers (there's some online)
03:13:40  <ST2> so, between "[03:11:36] <UukGoblin> I want long distance deliveries"
03:14:03  <ST2> and your goal of changing GS's and newgrf's
03:14:09  <ST2> what's your idea?
03:15:10  <UukGoblin> ST2, decrease the profit of the delivery by an amount proportional to the distance to the closest resource-producing facility
03:15:28  <UukGoblin> more or less
03:15:45  <UukGoblin> well unless the goods come from that facility
03:15:48  <ST2> that's called CDist
03:15:52  <UukGoblin> I haven't figured out the exact maths yet
03:16:15  <UukGoblin> it will take some testing until I come up with the perfect formula
03:16:15  <ST2> wich is on 1.4.4
03:17:07  <UukGoblin> CDist? tell more, google doesn't get it well
03:17:46  <ST2> check OpenTTD changelogs
03:18:49  <UukGoblin> ? I only see a bunch of fixes, nothing about CDist
03:19:50  <UukGoblin> ?
03:20:19  <ST2> that
03:20:32  <UukGoblin> looks nice, but not what I mean :-)
03:20:42  <ST2> introduced in 1.4.0
03:21:03  <ST2> strange that you didn't knew it
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03:21:19  <UukGoblin> dude, I'm not some openttd guru
03:21:30  <ST2> neither am I
03:21:33  <ST2> and?
03:21:37  <UukGoblin> I played a bit of original TTD, I played a bit of OpenTTD, I'm good with C and C++, that's all :-)
03:21:52  <ST2> again... and?
03:21:54  <UukGoblin> so don't expect me to know every change in every version ;-)
03:22:16  <ST2> correct
03:22:48  <ST2> so, dnt expect ppl explain each step on public releases
03:22:56  <ST2> is that acceptable too?
03:23:02  <UukGoblin> sure
03:23:14  <UukGoblin> I don't expect people to explain everything
03:23:18  <ST2> so, read them
03:23:44  <UukGoblin> if I have a question I try to find the solution online and if it's problematic I ask here
03:24:01  <ST2> it's the correct place
03:24:18  <ST2> but you need to be aware of the game changes
03:24:22  <UukGoblin> (or sometimes I just ask or bitch about something without really checking, but it's not like I expect an answer)
03:25:24  <UukGoblin> I can't be aware of all the changes that are happening
03:25:35  <ST2> you can
03:25:35  <UukGoblin> I'm not a openttd maintainer
03:25:50  <ST2> check channel topic
03:26:05  <ST2> so, yes, you can
03:26:43  <UukGoblin> well, yes, I theoretically can
03:26:54  <UukGoblin> if I'm interested enough I'll check it
03:28:17  <UukGoblin> (by saying "I can't be aware" I meant more like "don't expect me to be aware")
03:28:38  <ST2> note: I'm not saying this isn't the correct channel to make questions - I only say: make the correct questions, if you're really interested
03:28:53  <ST2> because there's many others solutions
03:29:19  <UukGoblin> right
03:29:24  <ST2> and the "if I'm interested enough I'll check it" says all
03:29:31  <UukGoblin> I should probably mention that I also like hacking things
03:29:39  <ST2> includes the answers you'll get :P
03:30:13  <UukGoblin> nah, python-generated NML docs won't really be in openttd's changelogs ;-)
03:30:48  <ST2> but will be in specific changelogs
03:31:16  <UukGoblin> and that's quite a lot of unstructured text to dig through for a newbie
03:31:45  <ST2> well, someone digging NML, not a newbie
03:32:04  <UukGoblin> I only learned about NML today
03:32:46  <ST2> a newbie not even understands C++
03:32:59  <UukGoblin> I'm an openttd-newbie, not C++-newbie :-)
03:33:11  <ST2> see?
03:33:37  <UukGoblin> no? what?
03:34:06  <ST2> well, explore how it works around
03:34:46  <UukGoblin> I feel very comfortable exploring the C++ code, it's actually quite good
03:34:57  <UukGoblin> very well written, I would say
03:35:24  <UukGoblin> I didn't really have to ask a single question to figure out how to implement my change
03:35:27  <ST2> I expected that also, unless won't be public ^^
03:36:05  <ST2> I must say, I'm a misery in C++, Squirrel, C, C# or whatever
03:36:29  <UukGoblin> I just need some help with this pnml stuff that firs uses, it's not as nicely documented and not so straightforward
03:36:40  <ST2> but I'm good on reading ppl intentions :D
03:38:17  <UukGoblin> I think I just came up with an algorithm
03:39:12  <UukGoblin> reduce the profit made when delivering cargo proportionally by the difference of the delivery distance minus the distance of closest alternative supply
03:39:39  <ST2> well, where can I get latest FIRS release
03:39:41  <UukGoblin> so when you're delivering from the closest industry, the reduction will be 0%, so you'll get the full amount
03:40:16  <UukGoblin> surprising you should ask that
03:40:16  <ST2> UukGoblin, can you help me?
03:40:31  <UukGoblin> oh, you're making some sort of point I guess
03:40:40  <ST2> nah
03:41:12  <UukGoblin> ST2, well then, the first google result of 'openttd firs' gives you a page describing how to get it
03:41:18  <ST2> I have 8 FIRS here, no idea what was the last one :S
03:41:24  <UukGoblin>
03:41:50  <UukGoblin> 1.4.3 is the last one :-]
03:42:16  <ST2> I needed the last one released on bananas
03:42:23  <ST2> is that the one?
03:42:37  <UukGoblin> can't help you there, dunno what bananas are
03:42:56  <UukGoblin> (well unless you mean the fruit, but you don't)
03:43:00  <ST2>
03:43:06  <ST2> wich is down now
03:43:39  <UukGoblin> ah, now I see
03:43:42  <ST2> hopefully, with time, you'll know how to work with it
03:44:08  <ST2> so, 1.4.3 is used in our FIRS servers
03:44:29  <ST2> what you wanted to chabge there?
03:44:56  <UukGoblin> I want to add a 'profit' callback to all the cargos
03:45:14  <ST2> and?
03:45:37  <ST2> I want many things too, you know?!
03:46:02  <UukGoblin> yeah well then get them
03:46:24  <ST2> backwise
03:46:33  <ST2> :P
03:46:36  <UukGoblin> I'm working on it as we speak ;-)
03:47:24  <ST2> if you make a server to test it, make it compatible with 1.5.0-RC1
03:47:28  <UukGoblin> it's just not as easy for me digging through unfamiliar python code which generates unfamiliar nml code which generates unfamiliar grf code
03:47:43  <UukGoblin> I'm mostly a single-player guy with openttd
03:48:21  <ST2> no words
03:48:28  <UukGoblin> making it work with one version on my one machine will make me happy
03:48:47  <UukGoblin> if I feel nice I might share the stuff with others too :->
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04:52:19  <supermop> having trouble accessing
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06:14:31  <__ln__>
06:18:36  <Supercheese> Hmm, maybe django is playing hooky again
06:18:42  <Supercheese> more 504 errors
06:19:00  <supermop> yeah
06:19:22  <supermop> also my autocad is acting up
06:19:26  <supermop> unrelated
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06:42:51  <chillcore> good morning interwebz
06:44:20  * chillcore ponders doing a tgen smoothness light for 1.5 now
06:46:07  <chillcore> peeps have all the convenience to test as much as they want now so I can just provide two arrays with some decent presets for large and small maps
06:46:59  <chillcore> gui stuffs will then be for 1.6 and ;)
06:51:14  <Supercheese> ah, I can access the page again
06:51:40  <Supercheese> not a good time for the webserver to be spazzing
06:51:44  <Supercheese> with the new release candidate
06:55:09  <supermop> i can get it too now
06:56:05  <chillcore>
06:56:52  <chillcore> ye True*Brain must have woken up :P
06:57:13  <chillcore> pesky europeans and their habit to sleep.
07:00:54  <supermop> why are airports not snow aware
07:01:01  <supermop> the default ones
07:01:33  <chillcore> no sprites so not coded?
07:01:33  <supermop> couldn't it be fixed by having the grass parts be transparent to show ground below?
07:02:10  <chillcore> you can pick the order of the above words yourself
07:02:32  <chillcore> hmm for airports? not sure if that would come out nice
07:02:49  <chillcore> the snow is an overlay of tiles itself
07:03:46  <chillcore> read: there is always a hidden tile underneath no matter the kind you actually get to see
07:04:37  <chillcore> avoids ugly glithes that may occur when (custom and not custom) tiles are not pixelperfect drawn or coded
07:05:23  <chillcore> think the effect you get when flying outside the map in HL (and other games)
07:06:56  <chillcore> but yeah code needs sprites and sprites need code
07:07:32  <Supercheese> OGFX+ airports should be snow aware
07:07:42  <chillcore> could*
07:07:44  <Supercheese> could check how they do it
07:07:49  <chillcore> and ye would look better
07:08:04  <chillcore> they are?
07:09:04  <chillcore> then maybe opengfx could use some but but ... hystery
07:09:21  <chillcore> you can not add sprites to the orgnall graphics and they are supported
07:09:48  <supermop> i just mean for title game
07:09:49  <chillcore> original* ... wakie wakie fingers
07:10:30  <chillcore> ye you can have original sprites there too but not NewGRF
07:11:43  <Supercheese> could load static newgrf
07:12:11  <chillcore> sure but you can not expect other peeps to have installed what you have
07:13:09  <chillcore> as it is now vanilla OpenTTD weighs about 10 MB
07:13:48  <chillcore> including eg. 'just' zBase by default would mean 300+ at least
07:15:22  <chillcore> hosting is kindly sponsered by various entities free of charge
07:15:42  <chillcore> for us users that is
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07:45:06  <chillcore> Hmm ... my freshly cloned hg source is not at default tip (r27193) but instead at r27185
07:45:34  <chillcore> ^^^ TrueBrain
07:45:48  <chillcore> no big drama but yeah
07:47:58  <chillcore> to be more correct: default is r27185 instead of tip
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09:39:51  <Eddi|zuHause> <chillcore> you can not add sprites to the orgnall graphics <-- sure you can. it's done all the time
09:43:58  <chillcore> moin eddi
09:45:03  <chillcore> ye now that you mention it there is that 'extra' grf I conveniently forgot about ... what would I do without you? ;)
09:47:18  <chillcore> so provided sprites and proper coding airports could be snowy in vanilla. or is there still something else I am missing?
09:58:56  <Eddi|zuHause> probably
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12:03:39  <LordAro> is it working now?
12:03:44  <Pikka> nope
12:03:51  <LordAro> aw
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12:20:19  <supermop> more houses to do
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12:22:45  <NGC3982> I love my computer.
12:22:48  <NGC3982> So much.
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12:36:48  <DanMacK> Hey all
12:37:39  <Pikka> hello DanMacK
12:39:47  <supermop> hi
12:39:57  <_dp__> Did anyone ever bothered testing double/quad size interface?
12:40:05  <_dp__> especially with custom fonts
12:40:20  <_dp__> like half of elements are not being resized properly
12:42:55  <chillcore> please compile a list of things to fix and someone, if not you, will get to it eventually; most likely. ;)
12:46:43  <chillcore> @seen someone
12:46:43  <DorpsGek> chillcore: someone was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 22 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 6 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Someone> indeed
12:46:48  <chillcore> damn
12:47:23  <Eddi|zuHause> @seen nobody
12:47:24  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen nobody.
12:47:44  <Eddi|zuHause> your grandma sucks...
12:48:02  <chillcore> @seen grandma
12:48:02  <DorpsGek> chillcore: I have not seen grandma.
12:48:06  <chillcore> lol
12:48:30  <Eddi|zuHause> what have you got these giant eyes for, then?
12:53:44  <chillcore> I need them for better seeing these small gui elements my munchie :P
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12:57:51  <UukGoblin> a new day, and a new idea. Rather than moving the cost calculation between GS, NewGRF and the changes to the codebase, I'd just add a new core game setting and do everything in C++
12:58:17  <UukGoblin> I think it'd be way cleaner and easier, both to write and to use
12:58:26  <UukGoblin> insta-compatibility with everything
12:58:53  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
12:58:54  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 15 hours, 30 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: * andythenorth to bed
13:00:56  <_dp__> I added some bugs to tracker, but almost everywhere some thing or other doesn't look right
13:01:07  <_dp__> Mostly it is due to icons being too big
13:01:35  <chillcore> hmm too big?
13:01:55  <_dp__> Also standalone buttons that resize to text boundary look weird when compared to smth like buttons in window footers that resize independently
13:02:03  <chillcore> are you using the big gui NewGRF?
13:03:37  <_dp__> Not sure actually) I don't use newgrf but when I downloaded opengfx in game it also got smth with big ui
13:03:48  <chillcore> ye that is a feature of resizable fonts .... the gui resizes to fit everything in proportion
13:04:10  <chillcore> but sprites do not resize that way
13:04:34  <chillcore> try removing it from the newgrf config and test again?
13:04:55  <chillcore> what platform are you playing on and what is your screenres?
13:05:46  <_dp__> you mean [newgrf*] sections in openttd.cfg? they are empty
13:06:38  <chillcore> form main menu click on newgrf settings
13:06:43  <_dp__> linux (sdl), 1680x1050
13:07:21  <chillcore> to change newgrfs in running games is a bad idea most of the times
13:07:38  <chillcore> the config file is overwritten with current values on game exit
13:07:59  <chillcore> during gameplay it does not change unless forced to do so
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13:09:19  <_dp__> checked newgrfs, don't use any
13:09:46  <_dp__> I have OpenGFX BigGUI grf downloaded but it is not active
13:10:31  <chillcore> same desktop res as me ...
13:11:11  <chillcore> running games might have a different newgrf config as the one in main menu ...
13:14:48  <_dp__> I know, nothing ui related in any savegames, also checked in new game without any grfs
13:16:44  <chillcore> well the thing is that the closebox and such use graphics which do not resize ...
13:17:15  <chillcore> try activating the big gui newgrf to see if that s better for you then?
13:17:44  <chillcore> best is new game ^^^
13:24:46  <chillcore> uh that is a really bad glitch you have there
13:25:18  <_dp__> tried biggui, it's different, but can't say it's better) only makes some icons bigger
13:26:56  <chillcore> to me it seems as if you are using the big gui in the game you took screenshots of ...
13:27:50  <chillcore> did you check ingame? under the cogwheel  there is a newgrf settings button
13:27:59  <chillcore> just saying ^^^
13:28:05  <_dp__> you mean hires icons? I think new opengfs is providing them
13:28:40  <_dp__> *gfx
13:28:47  <chillcore> hi-res? there is 8bpp 32bpp and there is size which s something xompletely different
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13:29:28  <_dp__> also all screenshots were made on double size interface, but it only matters for error message
13:29:39  <chillcore> I am using opengfx too but my icons ore smaller ...
13:29:45  <chillcore> ah that must be it then
13:30:39  <chillcore> anyhoo the three entries you made are valid bugs. thank you
13:33:53  <_dp__> yw
13:34:04  <_dp__> but I'm not sure what to do with the rest
13:34:42  <_dp__> try using constom font of like size 12 and double or quad interface size
13:34:53  <_dp__> I think you'll see what I'm talking about
13:35:26  <chillcore> #6258 is something for opengf to fix actually
13:35:52  <chillcore> it will be fixed in all guis with fixing 1 sprite
13:36:06  <chillcore> no need to repeat those as bugreports
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13:36:58  <chillcore> #6257 is a matter of forgetting the townpop label in smallmap
13:37:20  <chillcore> #6259 not sure what happened there ...
13:37:56  <chillcore> I am not sure why I would want to quadsize my interface size?
13:37:59  <_dp__> sprite size changed with interface size, but window wasn't resized to accomodate it
13:38:20  <chillcore> is that a bug in openttd or your distro?
13:38:46  <_dp__> in ttd I think
13:38:54  <_dp__> probably some OnResize missing ;)
13:39:26  <ST2> cooooooooookies!!!! Good morning ;)
13:39:27  <ST2> o/
13:39:35  <_dp__> hi)
13:39:44  <chillcore> why? openttd does not  resize interfase for as far as I am aware
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13:40:06  <peter1138> Sure it does.
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13:40:28  <chillcore> k
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13:41:19  <UukGoblin> trying to load a savegame from 1.4.4 in a recent version (svn r27193) results "Broken savegame - Invalid chunk size", did I forget to set some compile-time setting?
13:41:45  <chillcore> o/ ST2
13:42:25  <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: typically you get this message when the savegame is from some patched version
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13:43:05  <Eddi|zuHause> or if you patched the new version, and didn't apply savegame conversion correctly
13:43:10  <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, oh, ok, I guess that comes from me playing a patched svn version instead
13:43:15  <UukGoblin> that's it :-)
13:46:12  <UukGoblin> kinda makes sense, I added a new setting which has to be saved in games, so the chunk size is expected to change ;-)
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14:03:55  <Samu> 504 Gateway Time-out
14:04:00  <Samu>
14:09:40  <chillcore> lol @ the Atari
14:09:47  <chillcore> I bet they tested much
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14:12:08  <Dr0ppy> hi
14:12:13  <Dr0ppy> can i get some help please?
14:12:39  <chillcore> just ask instead of asking to ask ;)
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14:13:03  <Dr0ppy> well
14:13:07  <Dr0ppy> so it says it cant open a file
14:13:28  <Dr0ppy> also it says gateway timed out 504
14:13:45  <Dr0ppy> file is c program files open ttd data
14:18:08  <chillcore>
14:18:14  <chillcore> this helps?
14:18:50  <Samu> those colors
14:19:00  <Samu> reminds me of starcraft brood war
14:19:32  <Samu> there was a fix for starcraft brood war which involved in editing windows registry
14:20:51  <Samu> something like [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\DirectDraw\Compatibility\Starcraft116]
14:21:05  <Samu> probably a similar fix is needed for locomotion
14:22:12  <Samu> or if using 64 bits windows
14:22:13  <Samu> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\DirectDraw\Compatibility\Starcraft116]
14:22:37  <chillcore> I doubt he/she is reading her samu
14:22:40  <chillcore> here*
14:23:11  <Samu> seems to be a palette conversion
14:23:18  <Samu> "Flags"=hex:00,08,00,00
14:23:22  <Samu> "Name"="Starcraft.exe"
14:23:27  <Samu> "ID"=hex:ca,89,65,49
14:23:35  <Samu> ok, sorry
14:31:10  <chillcore> fine for me but helps noone ;)
14:31:33  <chillcore> but ye pallete conversion or screensaver kicking in
14:32:38  <Samu> i hear it's windows aero interfering, explorer.exe running in the background and so on
14:32:53  <Samu> messes with the colors
14:33:08  <chillcore> quite possible yes and nothing new
14:36:33  <Samu>
14:37:46  <UukGoblin> so if I want to find all industries producing a given cargo type, is there really nothin more efficient than iterating through them all and checking every industry's all produced cargos?
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14:38:12  <Samu>
14:39:59  <chillcore> Uukgoblin: click an industry and display chain, form there link to smallmap
14:40:09  <chillcore> not sure what info you are after ...
14:40:22  <UukGoblin> chillcore, sorry, I should've said: in the C++ code ;-)
14:40:51  <UukGoblin> I mean that's what ScriptIndustryList_CargoProducing does so I guess there are no better indices to use
14:41:23  <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: what more efficient method do you expect other than looking at each one?
14:41:34  <UukGoblin> just thinking that iterating through a few hundred industries on each cargo delivery might hurt
14:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: there's no indexing on output cargo or something going on
14:41:50  <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, maybe some nice cargo-type index
14:42:10  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to make that on your own, then
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14:42:18  <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, nodnod, thank you :-)
14:42:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and keep it updated on opening/closing industries
14:42:28  <UukGoblin> yup
14:42:35  <Eddi|zuHause> including magic bulldozer and stuff
14:42:52  <UukGoblin> I assume industries are created fairly rarely, compared to the number of times a cargo gets delivered
14:43:00  <UukGoblin> created/closed/bulldozed
14:43:05  <Eddi|zuHause> probably
14:44:52  <chillcore> ye samu ... but that is not something a player should ever be expected to fix ... it is Atari being lazy and just looking for a quick money grab
14:45:06  <_dp__> mb filtering by industry type first can speed up things a bit, not sure tho
14:45:18  <chillcore> Chris should sell his Transport Tycoon on steam and using the diff as selling point :P
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14:49:17  <UukGoblin> hmm, actually, all industries are iterated on each tick anyway.. maybe I overestimated the iteration cost
14:52:05  <Eddi|zuHause> usual iterations are every 256 ticks (called "the tile loop")
14:52:15  <_dp__> not all as far as I can tell, each is ticked every INDUSTRY_PRODUCE_TICKS
14:52:21  <chillcore> ohoh moki did post some values  while back and I totally missed them ... :blushes:
14:52:43  <UukGoblin> ah yeah, industry ticks
14:53:57  <UukGoblin> should be fine.. :-)
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15:26:04  <Samu> oh yesh, i just fixed ship depot demolishing
15:27:31  <chillcore> nice ... maybe keep the fixes as seperate patches for now? makes it easier to debug as you go; if needed
15:28:01  <Samu> that MakeWaterKeepingClass must be doing something
15:28:14  <Samu> i don't know what it really do yet, i have to investigate
15:29:28  <Samu> (but not now!) - ok i know
15:29:32  <Samu> i always get lost in details
15:29:36  <Samu> skip
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15:30:23  <chillcore> it is okay to take a break from time to time and investigate something else to have a change of mind
15:30:38  <chillcore> just when fixing stuffs one thing at atime works better ;)
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16:48:06  <Alberth> o/
16:48:46  <V453000> watup
16:49:40  <Samu> this DoCommand is annoying
16:50:33  <Samu> isn't there a more elegant way to prevent it from changing
16:50:41  <Samu> that bit information?
16:50:48  <Samu> the canal on river
16:52:41  <Alberth> dinner is coming
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16:53:25  <asdw> Hello all
16:53:32  <Alberth> o/
16:53:33  <Samu> DoCommandFlag
16:53:41  <Samu> what are these flags for
16:53:47  <asdw> Having issue getting to
16:54:26  <Alberth> me has that too, apparently
16:55:03  <asdw> you can ping the website but not actually ge to it
16:55:13  <asdw> i didnt know who to report it too
16:55:21  <Alberth> here was fine :)
16:55:23  <asdw> found this on the wiki
16:55:40  <asdw> I wanted to download the new RC
16:55:47  <Alberth> forwarded it to our sysadmin
16:55:54  <asdw> Thanks
16:56:11  <asdw> ill be looking forward to getting the new RC
16:56:21  <asdw> have a good day
16:56:21  <Alberth> try
16:56:29  <asdw> will do
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16:57:51  <Samu> 		delete i;
16:58:20  <Samu> delete industry, how exactly does it delete it?
16:58:38  <Alberth> just like any c++ object gets deleted
16:58:55  <Samu> :(
17:00:12  <Alberth> I don't see how it's special, everything is c++, so it follows c++ rules
17:01:34  <Samu> when i bulldoze an industry in scenario editor, where in the code does that happen?
17:01:40  <Samu> i have to find this
17:01:56  <Samu> especially the tiles
17:02:24  <Samu> how does it remove the tiles
17:04:29  <Alberth> inside delete i, I'd say
17:04:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: "delete" calls the destructor
17:04:55  <Alberth> ie some destructor
17:07:34  <V453000> me
17:10:17  <Samu> hmm i think i found it
17:10:44  <Samu> MakeWaterKeepingClass again being the culprit
17:14:02  <Alberth> yeah, we like to have the least amount of code for handling things, so you'll run into the same code all the time within one topic
17:14:27  <Samu> DoClearSquare(tile);
17:14:35  <Samu> inside MakeWaterKeepingClass
17:14:41  <Samu> that's the problem
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17:15:03  <Samu> gonna try to fix this thing
17:29:56  <Samu> damn MSE really slows down my system
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17:43:27  <Samu> grr, dumb MSE hogs my HDD
17:43:53  <Samu> it becomes so unresponsive that nothing reacts on the screen
17:44:36  <Terkhen> hello
17:45:11  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27197 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2015-03-19 18:45:05 +0100 )
17:45:12  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:13  <DorpsGek> swedish - 3 changes by Joel_A
17:45:24  <Samu> i really need a SSD
17:45:45  <Samu> stupid antiviruses don't know how to use a HDD
17:45:52  <Alberth> more memory is easier ?
17:46:23  <Samu> queue depth is more than this drive can handle
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17:47:42  <Samu> RAM usage is at 4.57
17:47:47  <Samu> GB
17:48:00  <Samu> 57%
17:48:54  <Samu> cpu usage 2%~
17:48:57  <Alberth> machine isn't using its resources very well then
17:49:00  <Samu> hdd usage 100%
17:49:50  <Alberth> yeah, windows is horribly inefficient
17:49:59  <Samu> queue depth between 4.6 and 8
17:50:06  <Samu> horrible
17:50:32  <UukGoblin> this Xorg client number limit is annoying
17:50:47  <UukGoblin> someone should fix that already, 256 clients is totally not enough for 16 desktops
17:51:26  <UukGoblin> I'll have to work around this and route all my rxvts via tmux :-S
17:51:52  <Samu> disk speed 2 MB/s
17:52:00  <Alberth> run a second server :)
17:53:21  <Samu> access time for some files are in 1000 ms
17:53:25  <Samu> :(
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17:54:32  <Samu> Is there a way to lower priority?
17:54:42  <Samu> io priority
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17:55:39  <Alberth> it sounds more like some program is doing insane things
17:57:27  <UukGoblin> it's probably the (anti)virus
17:58:01  <Samu> MsMpEng.exe
17:58:11  <Samu> doing funny things with my HDD
17:58:16  <UukGoblin> think about it - viruses steal your computer's resources to perform tasks that they feel beneficial to their security. Antiviruses do basically the same...
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17:59:56  <Samu> it seems to be extracting archives
18:00:01  <Samu> to a temporary folder
18:00:34  <Samu> extracting multiple archives extracting at the same time while scanning them
18:01:11  <Samu> then some archives have other archives inside them, they are also extracted to be scanned
18:01:14  <Samu> bah
18:01:16  <Samu> no wonder
18:03:12  <Samu> cpu usage for MsMpEng.exe averaging 3%
18:03:16  <Samu> that's so funny
18:04:47  <Samu> limit scanning to a max of 10% cpu usage, does nothing
18:04:54  <Samu> what a useless feature
18:06:13  <UukGoblin> that's because the scanner doesn't use CPU
18:06:16  <UukGoblin> the kernel does
18:07:03  <Samu> i can't set a lower value than 10%
18:07:25  <UukGoblin> uninstall that antivirus
18:07:32  <Samu> averaging 3% turns this unresponsive
18:07:34  <UukGoblin> and get a linux machine
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18:09:34  <ASDW> Thanks guys its back up at
18:09:53  *** ASDW [] has quit []
18:10:04  <glx> I won't call MSE an antivirus
18:10:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: what you're hitting is not the CPU limit, but the disk I/O limit
18:11:03  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27198 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2015-03-19 19:11:00 +0100 )
18:11:04  <DorpsGek> -Revert (r27197): WT3 being rude.
18:11:07  <Samu> I see, how do I remove priority to that
18:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> a mitigation technique could be moving the temporary folder to a ramdrive
18:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause> also, annoy the hell out of the product support...
18:12:22  <Samu> hmm needs to be a big ramdrive, some archives are giant
18:12:28  <Samu> 7 GB
18:12:31  <Samu> 4 Gb
18:12:39  <Samu> and i only got 8 GB RAM
18:12:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you can tell it to ignore archives
18:13:10  <Samu> I can, but...
18:13:24  <Samu> ... makes no sense when I need to scan everything
18:15:46  <Samu> windows10technicalpreview .iso -> install .wim -> blabla .cab
18:16:05  <Samu> these archiving methods slow down so much
18:18:59  <Samu> MakeWaterKeepingClass appears to be the solution after all
18:19:08  <Samu> if I put the bool stuff here
18:19:19  <Samu> I won't have to put in many other cases
18:28:30  <Samu> Windows XP / Vista / 7 (64bit) (installer) - you don't mention Windows 8 there
18:32:10  <Samu> heh, SmartScreen Filter is telling me this program is not transferred very often and that it's not signed by it's author -> openttd-1.5.0-RC1-windows-win64.exe
18:32:17  <Samu> mucho secure
18:32:56  <Samu> recommends me not to execute it, hmm :)
18:33:10  <Samu> lel
18:33:43  <peter1138> Well, it's new.
18:34:23  <Samu> i have a weird feeling microsoft is spying
18:34:30  <Samu> what is downloaded and what is not
18:34:55  <glx> only for MSE users
18:35:03  <peter1138> If you're using IE, you get what you deserve.
18:35:05  <Samu> :)
18:35:12  <Samu> it's IE11
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18:36:43  <Wolf01> o/ o/
18:52:52  <frosch123> @services op
18:53:57  <V453000> @saynotofrog
18:55:34  <Alberth> @services op
18:57:42  <TrueBrain> @services op
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18:57:45  <TrueBrain> thar, I fixed him
18:59:16  <V453000> @do_mayhem
18:59:24  <V453000> Doesnt seem to work
18:59:28  <TrueBrain> @kick V453000 1 mayhem coming up
18:59:29  *** V453000 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [1 mayhem coming up]
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19:00:14  <V453000> Was just pointing at flaws!
19:00:27  <TrueBrain> I pointed back :D
19:01:06  <V453000> :D I accept the feedback
19:01:36  <DorpsGek> you're welcome
19:02:10  <TrueBrain> too many people with say right .... :D
19:02:53  <glx> (and with client shortcuts so it's hidden)
19:05:38  <V453000> :)
19:08:06  <Samu> woah, im impressed
19:08:37  <Samu> editing MakeWaterKeepingClass alone fixed many things at once
19:08:54  <Samu> dock water tile is still failing
19:19:58  <Samu> so nice, everything is fixed, except for docks
19:19:58  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
19:20:03  <Samu> upon building
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19:20:13  <andythenorth> o/
19:20:49  <Alberth> o/
19:22:55  <andythenorth> cat is bee
19:26:37  <andythenorth> cat is not horse
19:29:14  <andythenorth> he has a point
19:31:37  <Samu> wow dock is confusing
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19:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: except it's all pointless
19:55:22  <andythenorth> I wondered
19:55:34  * andythenorth tries to reproduce a really odd Road Hog bug
19:55:44  <andythenorth> earlier I had two trucks, same model
19:56:01  <andythenorth> for the same direction (they were following each other), one failed to recolour the 2CC parts
19:56:08  <andythenorth> the other recoloured them correctly
19:56:14  <andythenorth> I didn’t screenshot :(
19:56:30  <andythenorth> I changed the newgrf on running game, so all bets are off
19:57:12  *** Celestar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:57:31  <andythenorth> nvm
19:58:06  <andythenorth> do we have any way to calculate fps, or equivalent?
19:58:10  <andythenorth> and log it?
19:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause> not really
19:58:42  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe if you put TIC/TOC in the right places
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19:59:01  <andythenorth> I’d like some numbers to evidence that double-size UI makes ffwd quantitatively slower
19:59:13  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not
19:59:17  <andythenorth> I could screenshot a vehicle over fixed distance, with my system clock showing in seconds :P
19:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause> amount of sprites has way more impact than size of sprites
19:59:36  <andythenorth> anyway, ffwd on OS X currently isn’t
19:59:51  <glx> ffwd depends on many things
20:00:06  <peter1138> Sure it is. It's not the game's fault your PC is too slow... :p
20:00:26  <andythenorth> I suspect Apple
20:01:22  <andythenorth> on my last mac, ffwd was (ridiculously) fast for a sensible map / game
20:01:34  <andythenorth> on this one, it’s a slug
20:01:41  <Samu> woah
20:01:49  <Samu> i can't seem to do this for dock
20:02:11  <Samu> there's a hidden 3rd tile which gets the information about it being built on river
20:02:21  <Samu> that's wrong
20:02:46  <Samu> can i get some help
20:03:04  <andythenorth> something has changed in OS X compiling / blitters / something
20:03:34  <andythenorth> eh who knows, too many things I don’t understand :)
20:03:53  <Samu> what I'm doing for the 3rd tile is to be done on the 2nd tile, the middle one instead
20:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can change blitters from command line
20:04:20  <Samu> CommandCost CmdBuildDock(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2, const char *text)
20:04:30  <Samu> in station_cmd.cpp file
20:05:25  * andythenorth looks in wiki
20:06:03  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: openttd config, or .configure?
20:06:08  <andythenorth> ./configure *
20:06:12  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no
20:06:21  <Eddi|zuHause> ./openttd -blah
20:06:33  <andythenorth> run time
20:06:56  <Eddi|zuHause> well, config could do as well
20:07:21  <Eddi|zuHause>
20:09:09  <andythenorth> -b, no space?
20:09:11  <andythenorth> -b8bpp-optimized
20:09:52  *** Klanticus [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:10:20  <Alberth> works with space too
20:10:56  <andythenorth> this is outdated wrt gui size :D
20:11:15  <Alberth> wiki is out of date at many places :(
20:11:21  <andythenorth> nature of wikis
20:11:42  <andythenorth> assuming I’ve done it correctly none of the blitters I’ve tried make any difference to ffwd
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20:12:34  <andythenorth> as there’s no animation with some of the blitters, I’m assuming I’ve done it correctly :P
20:13:16  <andythenorth> on 1x GUI zoom, the 32bpp-optimized blitter has acceptable ffwd with ‘full animation' off
20:13:34  <andythenorth> is it time to get a virtualbox to play OpenTTD in?
20:13:45  <andythenorth> OS X port might be dead
20:14:44  <andythenorth> which of these would I hate least?
20:15:16  <andythenorth> I am low on HD space :P
20:15:25  <Supercheese> aren't we all...
20:17:14  <Samu> 		if (river) SB(_me[tile + TileOffsByDiagDir(direction)].m6, 0, 1, 1);
20:17:25  <Samu> i hope this do what i think it does
20:19:14  <andythenorth> hmm
20:19:21  <andythenorth> 500MB of openttd saves
20:19:25  <andythenorth> that can mostly go :P
20:19:40  <Samu> oh yes! ox29
20:19:43  <Samu> 0x29
20:19:47  <Samu> correct!
20:20:29  <Wolf01> 12TB of OTTD grfs
20:20:41  <Samu> and MakeWaterKeepingClass is doing it's magic correctly as well
20:20:47  <Samu> after I fixed it
20:20:57  <Samu> guys, I think my patch is complete now
20:21:50  <Wolf01> <-
20:21:56  <Samu> let me show you
20:23:23  <Alberth> Wolf01:   :D
20:23:31  <Samu>
20:23:39  <Samu> tell me
20:23:42  <Samu> what u trhink
20:24:21  <Alberth> I wonder what other Pathing_TryNode calls I have
20:27:20  <Samu> and objects didn't need to be edited
20:27:27  <Samu> kind of surprised me
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20:32:16  <Supercheese> oh neat, potential fix for the "ahshite I blew up the river by mistake" eh?
20:32:40  <Samu> ye
20:35:56  <Supercheese> think I can test that, lemme compile and get back to ya
20:36:34  <Samu> you can still destroy rivers
20:36:51  <Samu> what I did was for the canal being built on rivers
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20:37:16  <Supercheese> hm?
20:37:28  <Supercheese> So, build canal on river, blow up canal, river restored?
20:37:31  <Samu> yes
20:37:37  <Supercheese> ah, I see
20:37:42  <Samu> if you destroy a 2nd time, river is then gone
20:38:00  <Supercheese> well, I can still test that then
20:38:24  <Samu> I'm just worried about those NewGRFs
20:38:53  <Samu> I have a bad feeling about those which use different stations or industries
20:38:57  <Samu> but
20:40:24  <Samu> I dunno what i could do about that
20:42:51  <Supercheese> Hm, compile errors, wonder what went wrong
20:43:06  <Samu> is it my fault?
20:43:16  <Supercheese> I do not yet know
20:44:29  <Supercheese> It seems there's an instance where you try and use the "delta" variable where it hasn't been declared
20:45:01  <Supercheese> either that or there is weird interaction
20:45:19  <andythenorth> hmm
20:45:20  <Supercheese> between my source, I had commented out a few lines in water_cmd already
20:45:26  <andythenorth> does he know that cdist is predictive?
20:45:27  <Supercheese> should really try with clean source bleh
20:45:41  * andythenorth is really puzzled how it could work
20:46:28  <Samu> HasBit(_me[tile - delta].m6, 0);
20:46:34  <Samu> delta is only mentioned for locks
20:46:40  <Samu> declared or whatever
20:47:02  <andythenorth> last time I check, cargo won’t be moved to a station anyway, unless a vehicle with valid refit has been there
20:47:21  <andythenorth> and ‘refit available’ won’t meet that criteria
20:47:27  <andythenorth> checked *
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20:47:31  <Supercheese> yeah I think my previous edits messed with your patch
20:47:36  <Supercheese> blah
20:47:39  * andythenorth grumble grumble
20:47:51  <andythenorth> will I play openttd, or fix this datepicker widget?
20:47:56  <andythenorth> or go to bed?
20:53:23  <Supercheese> ok, it's compiling now, serves me right for dropping a patch on top of another patch
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20:53:55  <Supercheese> it may have been helpful to create a patch with more lines of context around the diff areas, hmm
20:54:03  <Supercheese> should be a setting for that somewhere
20:55:29  <Samu> what's that?
20:56:30  <Supercheese> in *.diff files, you see ≈3 lines above and below your changes, increasing those lines of context would be helpful in several instances
20:56:43  <Supercheese> dunno if you can change that in TortoiseSVN though
20:57:11  <Samu> oh, I think i know what you mean, let me check if there's an option
20:57:39  <Supercheese>!topic/tortoisesvn/LqD5KRm3EtI
20:57:50  <Supercheese> seems like it's actually not configurable
20:58:17  <Alberth> plain svn doesn't have it
20:58:30  <Supercheese> would have to call your own diff program in that case
20:59:14  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: your 4. is just a variation of 3.
21:00:14  <Alberth> svn cat file.txt | diff -u -C10 - file.txt   or so :)
21:00:16  <Supercheese> well, the patch seems to work
21:00:47  <Supercheese> build canal on river -> blow up canal -> river restored
21:00:56  <Supercheese> which does not happen in vanilla
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21:01:22  <Supercheese> however, build canal on ocean -> blow up canal -> bare ground appears
21:01:31  <Supercheese> this patch didn't change anything regarding that
21:01:44  <Supercheese> but it now seems incongruous behavior
21:02:25  <Alberth> I wonder whether the latter has a function
21:02:43  <Supercheese> build canal on ocean you mean?
21:02:52  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
21:02:58  <Supercheese> that's used to hack together the seaplane airport
21:03:01  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:03:19  <Alberth> hmm, you should be able to build a canal there, perhaps :p
21:03:23  <Supercheese> or other sealevel structures
21:03:23  <Alberth> +not
21:03:24  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
21:03:36  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: fair point
21:03:41  <andythenorth> I read change as ‘modify’
21:03:43  <andythenorth> but eh
21:03:48  <Supercheese> and the water tiles are animated differently, which looks really weird
21:05:24  <Supercheese> although you can create some neat effects with a 0-height island by using canals on ocean
21:06:40  <Samu> build canal on sea, I didn't do anything aobut that
21:07:23  <Supercheese> yeah, but it now sticks out as opposite the new river behavior
21:07:34  <Supercheese> whereas before it was the same for both
21:08:03  <Samu> it's because I don't think it's needed
21:08:23  <Supercheese> a valid design decision :)
21:08:40  <Samu> becomes bareland, then it's flooded a second later, so it's sea again
21:09:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it can be used to open strips of land e.g. to build rails on sealevel, because the canals prevent flooding
21:09:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: preventing building canal on ocean just means you need to blow up the ocean and then build a canal
21:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause> there's really no point in why that should be preferable
21:10:18  <Alberth> it should flood then :p
21:10:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i disagree.
21:10:33  <andythenorth> canal on sea is essential
21:11:31  <Samu> ah i see what you mean
21:11:48  <Samu> better not restore sea then
21:12:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: well, restoring the sea might mitigate an effort to cheat
21:12:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: blowing up water is very expensive. building canal and blowing up the canal may be cheaper
21:14:28  *** DanMacK [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
21:14:42  <Samu> or maybe I don't see what you mean
21:17:39  <Samu> an island protected by canals at level 0
21:18:02  <Supercheese> Eddi|zuHause: It is indeed cheaper
21:18:24  <andythenorth> bye
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21:18:32  <Samu> sorry, I am confused about airports on water, which grf uses that
21:20:37  <Supercheese>
21:21:39  <Supercheese> Av8 has seaplanes
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21:32:57  <Samu> which model is a seaplane, im new to this
21:34:34  <Supercheese> you have to enable them via parameter
21:34:39  <Supercheese> Seaplane Preview
21:44:20  <Samu> i don't understand the point of that
21:44:37  <Supercheese> well, seaplanes shouldn't really be able to land on regular tarmac
21:44:45  <Supercheese> but OTTD has yet to distinguish runway types
21:45:02  <Samu> i can't build the airport on water
21:47:49  <peter1138> Someone™ should make it do that...
21:48:12  <Supercheese> you don't build it on water, as the thread indicated
21:48:31  <Supercheese> you clear land, optionally surround it with canals, then build the airport on the bare land
21:48:49  <Samu> if i dont surround it with canals, it's flooded
21:48:50  <Supercheese> you'll need the canals if you build it on cleared ocean
21:48:59  <Supercheese> or newobjects I suppose
21:49:14  <Samu> i can't place the water object
21:49:19  <Samu> it's 0x0 size
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21:51:53  <Samu> well, technically, this is not an airport built on a canal
21:52:18  <Samu> which could have been built on river
21:52:25  <Samu> so... i'm safe from this
21:52:56  <Samu> it's an airport built on bareland tiles
21:53:04  <Samu> but it looks like water
22:03:27  <Supercheese> yeah, you don't need to worry much about it, I mentioned in regarding the utility of building canals on ocean
22:16:07  <Samu> there's something missing on the patch, the landscape html files
22:16:18  <Samu> gah
22:16:24  <Samu> i dont have a decent html editor
22:20:14  <Supercheese> Notepad++?
22:21:29  <Samu> i can't see the results immediately, or can i?
22:21:37  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:24:16  <Supercheese> Well, ctrl+s, open the .html in browser, not necessarily immediate but close
22:24:28  <Supercheese> I don't do much html though
22:28:38  *** Taede [~T@2a02:348:94:6571::1] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]
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22:33:31  <supermop> yo
22:42:47  <Wolf01> 'night
22:42:53  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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22:44:57  <Samu> <li>m6 bit 0: river restoration flag for canals</li>
22:45:04  <Samu> is this clear enough?
22:45:20  <Samu> maybe not
22:45:24  <Samu> for when a canal is removed
22:45:50  <Samu> help me at english
22:46:29  <Samu> <li>m6 bit 0: river restoration flag for whenever a canal is removed</li>
22:52:21  *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@] has quit [Quit:  Try HydraIRC -> <-]
23:03:03  <Samu> hmm
23:06:39  <Samu> notepad++ is awesome
23:06:47  <Samu> here's a new patch revision
23:06:49  <Samu>
23:12:49  <Samu> or here
23:33:26  <supermop> i know this is antithetical to the idea of iron horse, but i find myself missing multiple units
23:33:57  <supermop> i've made a train of three slammers and two passenger cars, but it's quite expensive and looks odd
23:42:14  *** Pikka [] has joined #openttd
23:50:02  *** BobDendry [~lachlan@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:54:47  <Samu> chat looks silent
23:55:07  <Samu> in your opinion, what you think it's easier to do?
23:55:31  <Samu> terraformable rivers or 2  owners for canals?

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