Log for #openttd on 5th May 2015:
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03:45:33  <Pikkaphone> pew pew
03:46:04  <JezK> shinkansen are fun! :3
03:46:13  <JezK> also most profitable!
03:46:37  <JezK> until I built an international airport then immediately went bankrupt due to the maintenance cost.
03:47:35  <Supercheese> dem airportz
03:47:53  <JezK> seems maintenance costs should be less than the cost of building it in the first place
03:47:56  <Supercheese> You can use Av8 and its parameter to make the maintenance a bit less excessive
03:49:17  <JezK> how do you change newgrf parameters?
03:49:42  <Supercheese> well, it is best done only just before starting a new game
03:49:59  <Supercheese> it is possible to do so in a running game, but may introduce issues
03:50:27  <JezK> ahh found it
03:50:32  <JezK> missed that option
03:50:37  <Supercheese> but clicking the newgrf in the active column there has parameter settings, yeah like that
03:51:24  <JezK> thanks
03:54:07  <Pikkaphone> silly infrastructure maintenance
03:56:11  <JezK> i don't mind the idea in theory
03:56:22  <JezK> but the values seemed way off on those airports
04:00:20  <Pikkaphone> I'm surprised if opengfx airports doesn't have parameters for those costs, as am alternative to av8
04:00:46  <Pikkaphone> opengfx+ airports
04:01:18  <JezK> mm i think it was from opengfx+ airports
04:03:29  <Pikkaphone> iirc high maintenance costs for airports was a misguided attempt at reducing the profitability of massive cross-map air routes
04:04:23  <Pikkaphone> but of course all it achieved was making massive cross-map air routes the *only* viable use for aircraft...
04:05:18  <JezK> heh
04:05:44  <JezK> would be more useful if you could rent out your airport to competitors or something
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04:45:07  <Supercheese> that's part of what the Infrastructure Sharing patch aims to accomplish
04:45:23  <JezK> ooh there's one?
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04:58:00  <Supercheese>
04:59:14  <JezK> awesome =)
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05:33:28  <kamnet> I quite like Infrastructure Sharing patch. I everybody could just agree as to what happens when a company goes bankrupt, this would get a more serious push towards trunk.
05:34:33  <JezK> hmm should give other players the option of buying them out
05:35:20  <kamnet> It does, but what if nobody buys them out? What happens to their infrastructure, and if fees were being collected before, what happens to those fees?
05:37:29  <JezK> hmm what would happen in the real world.. government would step in and set up someone to administrate, so found a new company to take control of it and fees go there instead?
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05:46:59  <Eddi|zuHause> JezK: that basically amounts to "convert the property to owner 'None'"
05:47:21  <Eddi|zuHause> (which happens to roads anyway)
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06:15:06  <Alberth> moin
06:15:40  <JezK> media
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06:27:00  <kamnet> Holla!
06:28:59  <Johnnei> o/
06:51:59  <JezK> really enjoying this japanese trains set :3
06:52:22  * JezK misses riding trains in japan
06:53:02  * kamnet has never been to Japan, nor ridden on a train.
06:53:38  <JezK> you should try both of these things!
06:53:57  <JezK> possibly at the same time
06:54:20  <JezK> Except it's very depressing coming home to our slow trains
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07:00:59  <Johnnei> Should try that maglev one in Japan (or was it China?) which set a new record for trains :p
07:01:40  <JezK> Japan maglev set record recently
07:01:50  <JezK> but won't be open for a long time
07:01:51  <Johnnei> Maglev train in Japan managed to maintain 600+ km/h for 11 seconds, reaching 603 km/h at max :p
07:02:00  <JezK> yep, that's the one
07:02:00  <Johnnei> blame the mountains :p
07:02:23  <JezK> Tokyo - Nagoya
07:02:40  <JezK> then Nagoya to Osaka
07:03:01  <Johnnei> Scheduled for opening in 2027
07:03:32  <Johnnei> And in 2045 the expansion to Osaka should(tm) be finished
07:04:35  <Johnnei> I wonder if there will be any health restrictions to get on that train
07:05:50  <JezK> I took a standard train from Nagoya -> Tokyo a few months ago, took about 4 hours, quite a nice trip. Shinkansen from Tokyo to Osaka was pretty good too, about 2.5 hours i think
07:06:27  <JezK>
07:08:36  <Johnnei> Oh that's suprisingly low .-.
07:09:20  <JezK> indeed, impressive
07:09:45  <JezK> "Electromagnetic force is significantly stronger than gravity (gravity is only .4379562 x 10-41 times the electromagnetic force). It doesn't take much electromagnetism to negate gravity" that's kinda cool
07:10:05  <Johnnei> Oh sweet :D
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08:38:03  <kamnet> I think the US will eventually get high speed train, just not soon enough. Too many issues between federal, state and local development
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09:21:02  <Alberth> until people stop using aircraft, nah :)
09:23:40  <Alberth> JezK: what electromagnetic force are you talking about, natural electromagnetism?
09:26:38  <JezK> Alberth, just "magentic force" vs "gravity" i guess. I was quoting someone on reddit
09:27:17  <Alberth> what's that?
09:28:04  <Alberth> you can make a big magnetic field of about 7T just by putting lots of energy in it
09:28:21  <Alberth> sure that will be bigger than natural gravity
09:28:35  <Alberth> but the comparison doesn't make much sense to me
09:29:21  <JezK> "natural gravity"?
09:29:43  <Alberth> yeah, the gravity around us
09:30:03  <JezK> as in the earth's gravity?
09:30:08  <Alberth> yes
09:30:30  <Alberth> or do you want to compare against artifical gravity?
09:30:50  <JezK> no, just gravity in general
09:30:58  <Alberth> which you can get in any quantity mostly, depending on how much energy you throw at it
09:31:09  <Alberth> what is general gravity?
09:32:56  <Alberth> gravity is a force coming from the body of mass called 'earth' and us (at earth)
09:33:19  <Alberth> gravity at the moon is different
09:33:31  <Alberth> so what is "gravity in general" here?
09:34:33  <Alberth> hmm, to be correct, other bodies of mass also decide gravity, eg sea movement is caused by the moon
09:36:35  <Alberth> I fail to understand what you mean by "gravity in general", and what that 10^-41 is about
09:37:45  <Alberth> I have no doubt you can create a force that much bigger than earth gravity, but it's not comparable I think, without mentioning the amount of power you put into it
09:38:44  <Alberth> if you're talking about artificial magnetism, you're comparing something costing 0 power with something that does cost power
09:41:32  <blathijs> Gravity does cost energy, right? (potential energy)
09:44:24  <blathijs> Alberth: I think the 10^-41 factor is about how much more molecules you need for a bit of gravity than the same bit of electromagnetic force. It's a bit weird though, since I don't think they really compare it in Newtown / molecule, there's probably a differfent (better) metric for that comparison
09:45:57  <Alberth> but what electromagnetic force? afaik "electromagnetic force" is not constant
09:47:08  <Alberth> it's a function of the amount of current you put into it
09:49:15  <Alberth> so I don't see how it is a useful comparison
09:50:41  <blathijs> Alberth: Yeah, that's the weird part
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10:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause> so let me get this straight. you're two people that have no clue what they're talking about, and complain that it doesn't make sense?
10:04:29  <Alberth> it seemed to make sense to J3zK and Johnn3i, so I wanted to know how
10:08:12  <Alberth> So far, the discussion confirms my belief the number doesn't mean anything useful
10:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i won't pretend that i know what it's about, either, but i have seen actual physicists use the phrase "electromagnetism is stronger than gravity"
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10:11:52  <Johnnei> I won't say I understand the numbers but what I get from it is that you need very little magnetic force to negate gravity to make the train levitate on the rails, as that *10^-41 makes it quite small
10:12:32  <Eddi|zuHause> that is pure nonsense.
10:12:57  <Eddi|zuHause> you need exactly the same magnetic force to negate gravitational force
10:13:06  <blathijs> Indeed, you need _exactly_... Yeah, that
10:13:26  <Eddi|zuHause> just it's much easier to generate magnetic force
10:13:34  <blathijs> Here's the 10-41 number mentioned as "Strength in the scale of quarks":
10:13:55  <Johnnei> oh .-. I guess I'm just dumb enough to try and understand it :p
10:14:10  <Johnnei> Anyway, lunch time for me /afk
10:15:14  <blathijs> I guess it might be comparing the gravity of 1 particle compared to the electromagnetic force of 1 unit of charge (which IIRC is usually the charge of 1 particle, too)
10:16:40  <blathijs> So in that sense, a single particle generates a lot more electromagnetic force than gravity. However, normally, positive and negative charges average out, so there's only a little effective electromagnetic charge (until you apply some external influence to get the charges aligned).
10:17:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the entire field of chemistry is basically about uneven distribution of charges :p
10:18:30  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, generally the statement is "strong force > weak force > electromagnetism > gravity"
10:19:45  <__ln__> and also "do not underestimate the power of the Force"
10:26:01  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i don't remember hearing this sentence
10:28:02  <__ln__> oh, it was only "don't underestimate the Force"
10:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i've never seen star wars in english, anyway
10:29:09  <__ln__> sad
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10:40:20  <Celestar> bnah.
10:40:24  <Celestar> stupid synology
10:41:15  <Celestar> why can they not deliver that thing with a proper linux installation
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11:10:02  <Johnnei> I just shouldn't try to make sense out of stuff I don't understand :p
11:10:43  <JezK> no point trying to make sense out of stuff you already understand
11:11:16  <Johnnei> T.T
11:11:53  <V453000> haha
11:11:55  <V453000> good point
11:13:20  <JezK> but it's okay, the existence of gravity hasn't even been proven
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11:20:53  <Johnnei> I'll just stick to learning about coding :p
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14:42:31  <andythenorth> Pikkaphone: lo
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15:49:07  <Eddi|zuHause> <JezK> but it's okay, the existence of gravity hasn't even been proven <-- you're probably thinking of gravity waves
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15:50:16  <Alberth> perhaps about the question whether gravity is not a derived notion of something more fundamental? I remember reading that somewhere
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15:50:53  <Alberth> although technically, that doesn't make gravity non-existent :p
15:50:56  <Alberth> hi andy
15:51:56  <andythenorth> lo
15:52:00  <andythenorth> lo
15:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it doesn't. and this "gravity wave" thing is some quantum mechanics stuff, it's not about whether the sun excerts a force on the earth or not
15:52:39  <andythenorth> just invent higher standard of proof
15:52:45  <andythenorth> then everything is unproven
15:53:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it may have an influence on how the force is transmitted. but not on that it exists
15:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause> and the usual disclaimer: if you think you understood quantum mechanics, you didn't understand quantum mechanics
15:54:32  <Alberth> I know I don't understand it :p
15:54:47  <Alberth> does that imply I understand it?   :D
15:55:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so :p
15:56:15  <Alberth> bummer :p
16:03:34  <andythenorth> :(
16:03:39  * andythenorth thought he understood
16:04:00  <andythenorth> oh dear
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16:12:46  <Terkhen> hello
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16:26:16  <Markus> i have an ide for the openttd if it is coming a update you can select 4 versions of world but if you add one more select whit all the 4 worlds in one
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16:41:00  <Sacro> me fail english?
16:46:15  <Alberth> nah, just failing to understand that IRC doesn't give an answer in 11 minutes
16:47:36  <Eddi|zuHause> or sometimes 11 hours :p
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16:47:47  <Alberth> hi hi
16:49:30  <frosch123> hola
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16:56:39  <andythenorth> o/
16:56:47  <Alberth> o/
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17:09:25  <andythenorth> cat report
17:13:57  <TrueBrain> E_NO_SUCH_FILE
17:15:27  <andythenorth> same result here
17:16:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i tried, but the cat refuses to obey my order to report
17:16:26  <andythenorth> verb-noun problem?
17:16:31  <andythenorth> or lack of functionality?
17:17:43  <andythenorth> or a permissions issue perhaps?
17:18:07  <andythenorth> can you chmod 777?
17:18:16  <andythenorth> also what does chown say about the cat object?
17:18:34  <Alberth> unreadable
17:18:45  <andythenorth> is the cat malware?
17:19:13  <Alberth> nah, just too complicated to understand
17:19:24  <andythenorth> does stalman understand it?
17:19:28  <andythenorth> or torvalds?
17:19:29  <TrueBrain> it seems crypted to me
17:20:27  <Eddi|zuHause> must be terrorists.
17:20:42  <Eddi|zuHause> only terrorists and drug overlords use encryption
17:21:14  <TrueBrain> :( I will ask my boss if I work for either of the two then :D
17:21:26  <TrueBrain> that would be a good conversation ... lolz
17:21:42  <Alberth> assume both, you can't be wrong then :p
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18:03:45  <andythenorth> A MACRO PER DAY KEEPS THE DOCTOR AWAY
18:03:48  <andythenorth> oops
18:03:49  <andythenorth> caps
18:04:14  <Alberth> apparently it was important :)
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18:16:35  <Vinnie> Wolfsmaus, here they might now more
18:17:03  <Vinnie> <Wolfsmaus> with the nwe version 1.5 i have begin a new map
18:17:11  <Vinnie> <Wolfsmaus> but the ai players dont working
18:17:11  <Vinnie> <Wolfsmaus> i have dowenload all thinks
18:17:23  <Vinnie> his question we cant help him with
18:18:32  <Alberth> My random guess is the "selecting AIs" part of
18:19:07  <Alberth> ie like newgrfs, you not only have to download them, you also have to activate them
18:20:10  <Alberth> also check the number of AI competitors (first image at the page)
18:21:17  <Alberth> another thing is that they start a few years after you
18:21:33  <Alberth> and some do a lot of analysis before starting to build anything
18:21:46  <Alberth> so it can easily be a few years before any activity
18:22:43  <Wolfsmaus> I want to have a AI They are play hard and the can doing all thinks (Fly, Cars, Trains, ...)
18:23:07  <Wolfsmaus> But i dont know witch AI is indeed and witch script i need. And the Settig of them one AI player
18:23:31  <Wolfsmaus> i have setting to start 1 day after me
18:24:01  <Wolfsmaus> and i have play with speed 70 Years but nothing
18:24:35  <Wolfsmaus> and when he comes then i have a big red error screen
18:25:01  <Alberth>  gives an overview of the AIs and what they can do
18:25:44  <Wolfsmaus> ok thanks now my first problem i clear XD
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18:27:00  <Alberth> I never play with AI, so I don't really know.
18:27:10  <Alberth> you may want to ask at the forum
18:27:44  <Alberth> but yeah, some are quite buggy, and they crash with a grey screen with red text
18:28:14  <Wolfsmaus> ok but now i have 2 sits of infos. thx for and
18:28:14  <Alberth> you can report such errors by taking a screen shot of that window, and posting it at the right thread
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18:28:45  <Alberth> but some authors have stopped developing the AI
18:29:12  <Alberth> I suggest you avoid AIs that crash a lot
18:29:30  <Wolfsmaus> k thank you. i try a littel bit with the new information. i hope i can clear this and when not i take a screenshot
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18:30:05  <Wolf01> hi hi
18:30:12  <Alberth> AIs are never very good compared to human players
18:30:40  <Alberth> if you like competition, maybe you should try playing online at a server some time
18:30:45  <Alberth> hi hi Wolf01
18:30:46  <Wolfsmaus> yes but i have no frends to play with me this game XD
18:31:40  <Vinnie> make friends online :D
18:31:42  <Alberth> you can try for example public openttdcoop server
18:31:53  <Vinnie> reddit is nice with lots of people
18:32:06  <Vinnie> BT pro has goals + little bit less people online
18:32:28  <Vinnie> then there is the gamepark CZ servers that is pretty active
18:32:34  <Vinnie> then comes openttdcoop
18:32:37  <Alberth> but there are lots more
18:32:53  <Alberth> I never play online, so cannot help you there
18:32:58  <Vinnie> my order was more in active servers with nice people
18:33:32  <Wolfsmaus> ok now i will do this
18:34:07  <Vinnie> other servers have nice people aswell, but not the activity or settings i like
18:34:08  <Wolfsmaus> Wolf01 goes play online
18:34:18  <Vinnie> 90% still use original acceleration
18:34:21  <Wolf01> usually not
18:34:26  <Alberth> :)
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18:36:33  <Wolfsmaus> ok thank you verry much and i will try gamepark CZ or with real Peopels
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18:36:53  <Alberth> yw
18:38:07  <Wolfsmaus> ok bye bye and have fun
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18:38:18  <Alberth> you too :)
18:38:24  <Wolfsmaus> ^^
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20:39:52  <andythenorth> hmm
20:39:53  <andythenorth> bed
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20:59:58  <Wolf01> 'night
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