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00:02:06 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:08:29 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 00:22:26 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:44 *** Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:05:55 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:17 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:25:12 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:52 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:40:36 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-51-52.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 01:48:09 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-51-52.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:14:29 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:42 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:48 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has quit [Quit: To robbery, slaughter, plunder they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace.] 02:34:18 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:41 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:35:18 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d025b46.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 02:35:18 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08f5c1.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:30 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:10:09 <supermop> yo 03:12:26 <Flygon_> Yooo 03:12:29 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 03:16:32 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:36:34 <Pikka> oo 03:39:50 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:48:14 <supermop> hi 03:48:41 <Pikka> hello 03:49:01 <supermop> idk how i am going to get this done in time to hand off to V to get back to my boss 03:49:14 <Pikka> what are you doing? 03:49:32 <supermop> this guy has little concept of how long this stuff takes, hence why i need v's help to get done in time 03:49:44 <supermop> designing a shop fit out 03:49:53 <supermop> client wants really nice renders 03:50:05 <supermop> beyond what my computer can produce 03:50:24 <supermop> but doesnt want to pay a pro, nor par for his own copy of vray etc 03:50:53 <Pikka> silly clients 03:51:01 <Pikka> and bosses 03:51:05 <supermop> so basically i worked out its cheaper for me to hire someone than to struggle through it billing him the hours 03:51:41 <supermop> but because he doesnt want to subcontract anything out (paranoid NDA) 03:52:14 <supermop> i guess i just have to bill the hours equivalent of hiring a subcontractor and then pay myself 03:52:46 <supermop> but now he has decided to just render my models on his machine instead 03:53:10 <supermop> but my modeles are not properly rigged u as i was planning on paying someone else to do that 03:53:46 <supermop> now how will i explain when i magically produce professional renders in a few days 03:59:52 <supermop> sigh 04:16:21 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 04:34:57 <supermop> whats pikka up to? 04:35:19 <supermop> i think i just convince my boss how time consuming this is 04:36:04 * Pikka is up to trucks 04:36:16 <Pikka> although right now I have relatives visiting, so I'm off to lunch. 04:41:09 <supermop> fun! 04:41:22 <supermop> i wish i was in qld 04:41:24 <supermop> too cold 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67FA3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67493.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 04:59:41 <Pikka> it's fairly cool up here today too.. 05:18:08 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.109.4] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC: triple your pleasure, triple your fun! [www.adiirc.com]] 05:33:35 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 05:53:18 <supermop> oddly enough this afternoon its very warm out 05:53:34 <supermop> well relative to the past few days 06:01:09 <Pikka> :) 06:01:31 <Pikka> did I imagine the addition of a variable to detect whether the vehicle is loading or unloading? 06:06:33 <Pikka> nml has "vehicle_is_unloading" as a new variable in 1.5, doesn't look like it's listed on the nfo page. Guess I'll have to go find the revision. :) 06:07:10 <Pikka> oh no, there it is 06:07:32 <Pikka> how did I overlook that? :) 06:19:05 <supermop> that is new? 06:19:20 <supermop> haven't vehicles always had loading sprites? 06:19:32 <supermop> or you mean loading separate from unloading 06:19:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:19:49 *** StudioPonozka [~Sockman@95-143-140-33.client.ltnet.cz] has joined #openttd 06:19:49 <supermop> like a dump truck not tipping to load 06:21:18 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 06:21:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:22:04 <andythenorth> o/ 06:22:12 <supermop> hi andy 06:23:06 <Alberth> moin 06:27:13 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:31:27 <Pikka> exactly like that, supermop :) 06:31:33 <Pikka> hello andy 06:32:26 <supermop> pineapple people forcing their way out of the train before others push their way on? 06:33:06 <Pikka> no, exactly like a dump truck not tipping to load :P 06:33:11 <Pikka> http://i.imgur.com/zkRinFe.png 06:34:40 <supermop> other than dump trucks, where else would this distinction show up? 06:35:03 <Pikka> I don't know 06:35:14 <supermop> i can't think of anything else 06:35:33 <supermop> other than animated loading of people or boxes 06:35:49 <supermop> hopper cars do not really change shape to unload 06:36:45 <Supercheese> anything that loads in a different fashion than it unloads 06:36:55 <Pikka> this dump truck though... (1 empty + (4 cargos * 4 load/unload states)) * 8 directions * 16 liveries... 06:37:00 <Pikka> 2176 sprites :) 06:37:03 <Supercheese> perhaps self-discharging hoppers, if there are enough pixels to make the distinction 06:37:12 <supermop> i think thaat iss only really dump trucks Supercheese 06:37:12 <Supercheese> which is dubious 06:37:33 <supermop> hoppers you will only see if you can animate the stuff coming out the bottom 06:37:43 <Pikka> which you could, but you wouldn't 06:37:49 <Supercheese> could put a ramp and march livestick towards the car loading, away from car unloading :P 06:37:57 <Pikka> getting too "realistic" for openttd, and getting to be too much work :) 06:38:17 <Supercheese> yeah dump trucks are by far the largest use case 06:38:34 <supermop> for tankers you could have a hose connected to top for loading and bottom for unloading assuming your station has the other end of the hose on it 06:38:55 <supermop> side tip hoppers? 06:39:22 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 06:39:37 <Pikka> side tip is just a flavour of dump truck 06:39:44 <supermop> cement trucks rotating opposite direction to unload 06:39:57 <supermop> garbage trucks 06:40:23 <Supercheese> no one wants to animate the rotating anyhow 06:40:38 <Supercheese> and I don't think cement trucks even exist 06:40:47 <Supercheese> could render some but meh 06:40:52 <supermop> i'd sort of assumed you'd make them 06:41:01 <Supercheese> Maybe 06:41:07 <Supercheese> worth a look 06:41:08 <supermop> idk what they would be used for in game 06:41:14 <Pikka> they're not really transporty enough for me. maybe as a town car? :) 06:41:19 <supermop> bdmt i guess 06:41:26 <Supercheese> eyecandy RV for sure 06:41:36 <Supercheese> already have two garbage trucks 06:41:59 <andythenorth> bonjour Pikka 06:42:09 <Pikka> guten tag 06:42:26 <supermop> a cement truck showing up to pour concrete into the hardware store twice a month for years on ed may be a bit odd.... 06:42:45 <andythenorth> silly game 06:43:11 <andythenorth> Pikka have you seen what V453000 is doing with cubes? o_O 06:43:23 <Pikka> is he eating them? 06:43:30 <andythenorth> in bulk 06:43:36 <Pikka> whence? 06:43:45 <andythenorth> V453000 where is pictures? 06:45:42 <Pikka> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/RAWR/voxelzzzzz.png these ones? 06:46:13 <supermop> oooh 06:46:26 <andythenorth> yes those ones :) 06:46:41 <andythenorth> every pixel a cube 06:47:00 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 06:48:12 <Pikka> seems a bit of a tame concept for V :P 06:49:47 *** KouDy_ [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:50:35 <Alberth> :D 06:56:58 <V453000> NOT FOR LONG :P 06:57:46 <V453000> mayhem possible 07:00:20 <Pikka> huzzah! 07:15:28 <Pikka> wot 07:15:35 <andythenorth> ? 07:15:50 <Pikka> grf compiles fine, openttd gives unexpected sprite error :/ 07:16:05 <Pikka> in the middle of a block of (the right number) of sprites... 07:16:14 <andythenorth> how rude 07:16:18 <Pikka> tres 07:16:36 <andythenorth> also, pikka you haz truck sprites? 07:16:52 <Pikka> si 07:17:07 <Pikka> just finished the last 3rd generation (50sish) truck. 07:17:15 <Pikka> will do a blog post some time 07:17:23 <Pikka> ie, when I can get the grf to work 07:17:43 <andythenorth> he 07:19:25 <peter1138> Cubicals 07:20:32 <andythenorth> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=556164 07:20:52 <andythenorth> I donât like lime green, makes me feel a bit sick, but bold colour scheme 07:21:02 <andythenorth> nice suspension too 07:21:13 <Pikka> yes 07:21:52 * Pikka doesn't understand 07:22:25 <Pikka> I have a block of 512 sprites, openttd is complaining about unexpected sprite on the 510th. I can't see any difference between this block of 512 sprites and the one immediately preceding it... 07:22:41 <andythenorth> is paste? 07:22:57 <Pikka> apart from they have different sprite names of course... 07:23:03 <Pikka> is paste where? 07:23:47 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org 07:23:55 <Pikka> I suppose I could try replacing the block that breaks with a copy of the block that doesn't break, and then if it still breaks I can claim it's not my fault. :) 07:24:40 <andythenorth> that is how an libxml bug was found yesterday :P 07:25:28 <andythenorth> found a libxml extension that literally canât count 07:25:56 <Pikka> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p626ze0d3 that's the block, fwiw :) 07:26:12 <Pikka> * on 4578 07:27:13 <Pikka> I counted both "8bpp.png"s and "lacey_octopod"s, there's definitely the right number of sprites... I'll try replacing the whole block. 07:28:51 <Alberth> swap 2 lines 07:29:05 <Pikka> or that :) 07:29:59 <peter1138> First block is 64, the rest are 16? 07:31:37 <Pikka> huh, replaced the block and it works. 07:33:22 <peter1138> Why is the first one 64? 07:34:05 <Pikka> are you questioning 01 01 00 \b16 \b64 08, peter1138? it's an extended format action 1. 07:35:03 <Pikka> 64 sets of 8 (512 sprites), but starting at set 10 (d16) instead of set 0, and retaining the first 16 sprite sets from the previous action 1. 07:35:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19915.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:36:05 <Pikka> oh 07:36:08 <Pikka> you mean 07:36:15 <peter1138> But you have 16 * 8, not 64 * 8 07:36:40 <Pikka> you mean you spotted that second action 1 that isn't supposed to be there, and is in fact the problem? thanks :D 07:37:13 <peter1138> In that case, there's the 3rd and 4th too. 07:37:17 <Pikka> yep 07:37:34 <Pikka> whoops :) 07:45:32 <Pikka> all good now, thanks peter1138 07:57:07 <Pikka> http://i.imgur.com/wR6IZG5.jpg 07:59:58 <Alberth> spiffy 08:06:49 <andythenorth> ho 08:06:55 <andythenorth> I can stop working on Road Hog :D 08:07:20 <andythenorth> look at all those trucks 08:09:29 <Pikka> woooooo 08:09:36 <Pikka> I just changed company colour and crashed openttd! 08:09:51 <Pikka> although I had reloaded grfs a few times, so... 08:13:10 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-173-73.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 08:28:39 <peter1138> Well 08:32:03 <andythenorth> exactly 08:37:44 <Pikka> indeed 08:38:08 <__ln__> @seen dominik81 08:38:08 <DorpsGek> __ln__: I have not seen dominik81. 08:40:10 <andythenorth> one day 08:40:21 <andythenorth> someone will figure out how to regression-test newgrfs 08:43:07 <__ln__> but today is not that day 08:43:33 <andythenorth> I would lay money on it 08:43:35 <andythenorth> â¬20 08:43:46 <andythenorth> today will not be that day 08:49:03 *** ChrisM [~chris@202-161-29-4.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:01:52 <andythenorth> tests are win when refactoring 09:08:58 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12:05 <Pikka> OTVI seems exceptionally good at creating gridlock 09:12:47 <Pikka> places a drivethrough stop just off a main road or in the middle of a town and sends a hundred vehicles with full load orders to it. 09:13:42 <andythenorth> AI is our major existential threat 09:13:45 <andythenorth> apparently 09:15:10 <Pikka> apparently 09:15:12 <Pikka> http://i.imgur.com/dFglwAD.jpg 09:15:25 <Pikka> OTVI is mauve, sucks to be white or green. 09:17:30 <andythenorth> you need more diesel smoke 09:17:34 <Pikka> I do 09:17:40 <andythenorth> your trucks are twin-stack 09:18:01 <Pikka> only the petersons, in this generation. :P 09:18:26 <Pikka> there is a lot of diesel smoke, I wonder if it affects performance? 09:18:57 <Pikka> also, how much of a pain is the callback to reposition smoke? 09:20:02 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:23:20 <Pikka> (that was not a rhetorical question, I haven't tried it yet) 09:29:05 <andythenorth> easy peasy 09:29:08 <andythenorth> even andythenorth can do it 09:29:21 * andythenorth is nml-tastic mind 09:36:31 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 09:37:41 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [] 10:13:30 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 10:14:08 *** StudioPonozka [~Sockman@95-143-140-33.client.ltnet.cz] has quit [Quit: Buj] 10:14:15 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-sqc43OvOE 10:14:21 <andythenorth> lego maglev 10:16:26 <Pikka> fancy 10:34:29 <andythenorth> cats are quiet 10:34:40 <andythenorth> where is discussion today? 10:34:48 <Pikka> hmm 10:34:50 <andythenorth> about fine features and valued opinions 10:34:57 <andythenorth> such as Underground Building 10:35:02 <andythenorth> and DayLength 10:35:07 <Pikka> I'm looking at leyland PD3s with front entrances, is that a good feature? 10:35:18 <andythenorth> I can only read that in a seedy way 10:35:20 <andythenorth> sorry 10:35:30 <andythenorth> for lowering the tone 10:35:34 <Pikka> you filthy swine you 10:38:31 <peter1138> Fallout New Vegas, eh? 10:38:50 <Pikka> who can say? 11:00:16 * andythenorth does FIRS-ing 11:17:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.162.159] has joined #openttd 11:24:12 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:32:21 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest5403 11:32:26 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:32:32 *** roidal_ [~roland@194-152-173-80.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 11:35:47 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-213-80.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 11:37:12 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-173-73.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38:38 *** Guest5403 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:43:44 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:43:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:50:58 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 12:01:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27285 /trunk/src (genworld_gui.cpp settings.cpp) (2015-05-16 14:01:19 +0200 ) 12:01:24 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Use LG_ORIGINAL instead of a magic 0 to indicate the original landscape generator. 12:04:57 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:08:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27286 /trunk/src (script/api/script_window.hpp window_type.h) (2015-05-16 14:08:06 +0200 ) 12:08:10 <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish(r27140): Also fix typo in the documentation. 12:11:34 *** M3Henry [~m3henry@cpc72389-sotn14-2-0-cust678.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:11:47 <M3Henry> G'day 12:12:16 <Alberth> hi hi 12:12:28 <Pikka> ding dong 12:12:50 <M3Henry> I'm having a go at adding a irrKlang driver to the game 12:13:25 <M3Henry> Though the game doesn't seem to recognise the additional driver 12:19:40 <M3Henry> Ah, derp, didn't add it to source.list 12:20:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i was about to say you probably forgot something trivial 12:20:42 <M3Henry> It's been a while >.< 12:28:24 <supermop> just went to a QLD beer event 12:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> my condolences 12:33:42 <supermop> http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/pictoria/a/1/8/im/a18343.jpg 12:34:11 <supermop> any guesses as to how tall that dark granite bit is? 12:34:52 <supermop> only clue i have is that the whole building is mentioned as being 132 ft tall in an article from the 30s 12:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause> on the right you see a person. 12:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> a person is about 1,80m 12:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably a mannekin 12:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> in the window 12:36:32 <supermop> yeah so i was assuming that first ledge was about 6 feet, which should make the whole thing 44 feet, but counting widows on other photos gives me something more like 32 12:36:48 <supermop> hmm if that is a mannwequin it looks tall compared to the car 12:37:03 <supermop> mannequin 12:38:13 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, i don't think there's much of a discrepancy 12:40:16 <supermop> ok 12:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> say the mannequin is 1,80, and fits 5 times in the building, that would make it 9m, which is about 30ft 12:43:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so that 32ft figure seems more accurate than the 44ft figure 12:44:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but how accurate do you really need it to be? 12:45:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:46:06 <supermop> roughly 30 or roughly 40 is fine 12:46:41 <supermop> using feet bc that's what i found records for, then going to convert to mm 12:47:03 <Pikka> good night children 12:47:04 *** Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:47:39 <supermop> its just going to be an abstract mass dark on bottom and light on top to be across the street from a shop, to bounce sunlight into the front window 12:47:42 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 13:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i've said everything i have to say about this. make your own conclusion. 13:06:03 *** krinn [~krinn@24.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 13:06:12 <krinn> hi guys 13:07:02 <krinn> was about to open a bug for http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSTileList__IndustryAccepting.html but i think it may be too verbose for a bug and better handle here 13:07:43 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: people with knowledge in that area might not be here 13:07:48 <krinn> The radius explains mislead everyone and gave a bad (smallest) return tiles 13:08:02 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, that's just a description of radius problem 13:08:15 <krinn> the function itself isn't buggy 13:09:03 <Eddi|zuHause> so what is you problem? 13:09:22 <Eddi|zuHause> +r 13:09:48 <krinn> that hinting "radius" is "The radius of the station you will be using." mislead everyone as now you will try to gave it the radius of the station type you will use 13:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and what's your problem? 13:10:58 <krinn> you will get shorter tiles than what you should get 13:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand your problem. 13:12:11 <krinn> lol i know that's why i didn't handle that in flyspray ;) 13:12:42 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, if you have a 10 size rail station, people will get mislead and feed it with radius = radius of a rail station 13:13:02 *** ChrisM [~chris@202-161-29-4.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:13:07 <krinn> and they will get answer of "list of tiles the industry accept for a station of 4 radius and 1 size big" only 13:13:15 <Eddi|zuHause> can you give an example piece of code, describe what it does, and what you expected it to do instead? 13:14:05 <krinn> GSTileList_IndustryAccepting(industry_id, 100) <- get list of tiles the industry will accept 13:14:14 <krinn> with the 100 so you will get all for sure 13:14:43 <krinn> while people are hint to GSTileList_IndustryAccepting(industry_id, AIStation.GetStationCoverageRadius(station they will use)) 13:15:17 <krinn> of course if you build a rail station of size 1, you are fine, but it's not really something anyone would do no? 13:16:10 <krinn> the radius shouldn't hint to use the station radius you will use, so people hint the function with a bigger radius that depend on the radius of their station and its size 13:16:21 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the way i undertand this function is that you call IndustryAccepting(radius_of_station), and make sure that the intersection between the result and your MxN station you want to build is not empty 13:16:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19915.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:19 <krinn> yeah Eddi|zuHause but this will only get you a shorter list of tiles, only the one for the intersection of your station if its size is 1 13:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: in this case, AIStation.GetStationCoverageRadius is the correct value to use 13:17:46 <krinn> no because your station will have a bigger coverage, that depend on its size 13:18:13 <krinn> a 10 station size have a bigger radius than a 1 size station 13:18:34 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: but that is only if the industry is larger than the area of the 1x1 station 13:18:55 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 13:19:27 <krinn> no, it is when your station is coverage is bigger than the coverage of that station type with a 1 size 13:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: like an extreme example, an industry of 20x1, and only the end pieces accept 4/8 cargo. then you need a station that covers both end pieces 13:20:09 <krinn> hmm, i know it would difficult to explain it :) 13:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: but then, giving a larger radius will result in tiles that won't accept the cargo in your result 13:20:51 <krinn> yes exactly! even if the station is outside the coverage itself, some part of it might still be within because of its size 13:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> no 13:21:41 <Eddi|zuHause> if all the pieces of station are outside the coverage, no part of the station is inside the coverage. 13:21:55 <krinn> i didn't say "all", i say some 13:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but who cares about that? 13:22:18 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:22:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to make sure that ONE piece of the station is inside this area returned by that function 13:22:37 <krinn> yes 13:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no matter how big the station is 13:22:58 <krinn> and by hinting "use the station coverage" you are limiting the result 13:23:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no. 13:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (unless you have an extreme example like above) 13:23:44 <krinn> ok say we use a simple 1 size radius coverage ok? 13:24:04 <krinn> so the function will return what tiles are good to use next to 1 tile radius right? 13:25:01 <krinn> now if your station still have 1 tile radius, but your station is 5 size big, your coverage radius is farer than just 1 tile 13:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but at least one of those 5 tiles must be within 1 tile of the industry 13:25:51 <krinn> yes right 13:26:14 <krinn> but if you ask the function giving it radius = 10, you will get all tiles where you could build your station of 5 size within them 13:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> thus intersection of (industry area) and (station area) must contain at least this one tile 13:26:29 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: no, you get a lot of invalid tiles 13:26:48 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: where if you placed your station there, it won't accept the cargo 13:27:35 <krinn> no, it depend how your station direction 13:28:22 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: i think you confuse "one piece of the station must be in the area" with "all pieces of the station must be in the area" 13:29:48 <krinn> that's it, the radius description mislead people to think it is not possible to build one with at least one piece within it 13:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't follow your argument. 13:30:39 <krinn> as you will only get the tiles that would be valid to build all your station within it 13:32:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the misunderstanding is in your use of the function. not in its documentation 13:33:08 <krinn> that's the radius description that is misleading 13:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't see how you would convince anyone even if you wrote this up as a bug report 13:34:14 <krinn> if you use a radius of 20: you will get all tiles within a 20 radius that the industry is accepting right? 13:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no. if you want to build a 20x1 station, a radius of 20 will give you 90% invalid results 13:35:59 <krinn> let's make it simple, i want build a 5 size station, so i will get all tiles within that 20 tiles radius where i could build a 5 size station, ok? 13:36:28 <Eddi|zuHause> not ok. 13:36:33 <krinn> damnit! 13:37:45 <krinn> what do you think you will get then? 13:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think we will get to an agreement in this discussion format 13:39:28 <krinn> just look how it work with openttd then as a real example 13:39:42 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> let's consider a one-dimensional world 13:39:56 <Alberth> that would be good by definition :) 13:40:02 <Eddi|zuHause> _____III_____ 13:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> I is the industry, _ is free land 13:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> assume you have a station radius of 2 13:40:38 <krinn> ok 13:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> then any of __SS_III_____, ___SSIII_____, _____IIISS___, _____III_SS__ will be a valid station placement 13:41:44 <krinn> ah yes it's that! 13:41:45 <Eddi|zuHause> now you call your function with radius 2 13:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause> this will result in the following area: ___xxIIIxx___ 13:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so any station placement where at least one S overlaps with an x, will be valid 13:42:29 <krinn> ah thank you !!! you see the problem? you are now not seeing _____III_SS__ as a valid result 13:43:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it is. because i said AT LEAST ONE S 13:43:10 <krinn> because for everyone the upper right tile is where to put the station 13:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is a misconception on your part. it has nothing to do with radius 13:44:20 <krinn> that misconception is because of the description of radius, that hint people to use the radius of the station type 13:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if you were to set the radius at 3, you would get _SS__III_____ as a valid result, which will not accept the cargo 13:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: so your misconception is that for station placement, you need to consider more than the north corner 13:46:02 <Eddi|zuHause> changing the radius is not the correct solution 13:46:14 <krinn> no, because if the station is turn toward -- it will be within it 13:46:35 <krinn> train station have bigger catchment area on depth of station than size of station ;) 13:46:36 <Alberth> the documentation says nothing about a station 13:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: you need to create a TileArea which will cover your MxN station, and compare that with the result of this function 13:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: or you need to take the result of this function, and extend it by M or N on ONE side only 13:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> extending it on the other side, which changing the radius would do, is invalid 13:48:32 <krinn> yep 13:49:01 <krinn> it's easy to get, you need a bigger radius than your station type, you need the radius of the station type + its size 13:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: in either case, using the coverage radius of a 1x1 station is the correct argument to this function, so the documentation is correct 13:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: again, no. using radius+size gives you incorrect results 13:50:17 <krinn> not really, because it's not "list of tiles that acccept cargo for the given industry anymore", but only the tiles within that radius 13:51:46 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: of course you are free to use the function in any way you wish, but don't blame it on the documentation. 13:52:19 <krinn> what mislead people is not taking the real station size 13:52:56 <krinn> the function should answer to width, height and radius, while it only use radius and HINT that this radius should be the one of the station type you are going to build 13:53:20 <TrueBrain> if only we had non-square stations ... 13:53:25 <TrueBrain> wait! WE DO! \o/ :D 13:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could easily make a wrapper function that takes length and width of the potential station... 13:54:13 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i have no real problem with the function myself, i'm trying to help other figuring out its limitation and usage 13:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and returns the potential northern tiles of a valid station 13:55:53 <krinn> with a radius of 4, people get IIIxxxx while a station of size 4 people could use IIIxxxSSSS 13:56:05 <TrueBrain> Eddi: would only work under the assumption you will be making a rectangle-shaped station ;) 13:56:34 <krinn> and hinting them to use the radius of station only mislead them to not see IIIxxxx!!!!!!!!!! tiles 13:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: yes. but if you consider non-rectangular stations, it will become just crazy 13:57:19 <TrueBrain> and that is why this function does what it does :) 13:57:43 <TrueBrain> the only confusion here seems to be what acceptance really is :) 13:57:58 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: that may be true, but giving a radius larger than 4 will allow a SSSSxxxxIII station, which will not accept the cargo 13:57:58 <TrueBrain> it has nothing to do with stations; it has everything to do with industries :) 13:59:14 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, yes but it's up to the function to not return SSSSxxxxIII while still return IIIxxxxSSSSS... 14:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: and i said you can easily write such a function 14:00:22 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i know, i did already, i'm not trying to fix something for myself 14:00:31 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: but just increasing the radius is not the correct solution 14:00:50 <krinn> you can get the real answer by AITile.GetCargoAcceptance already 14:01:13 <krinn> because this one use width, height and radius to answer 14:02:48 <krinn> the other function mislead people by hinting them about the radius of the station without them to consider also its size 14:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: there is no misleading documentation 14:06:48 <krinn> if you think so, for me i think the doc should tell people to use a radius depending on the station radius and its size 14:07:15 <Alberth> it should perhaps explain how to use the function 14:07:28 <TrueBrain> why would the function IndustryAccepting care about stations? 14:08:04 <TrueBrain> Alberth: oeh, examples :D 14:08:46 <Alberth> could be done at the wiki too 14:09:58 <krinn> i think, it may better explain that "the radius of the station you will be using" is not "the radius of the station type you will use" 14:11:12 <TrueBrain> or it should read s/radius/acceptance radius/ ;) 14:11:32 <TrueBrain> I agree radius is a bit ambigous here :D 14:12:18 <krinn> I think everyone reading it will think radius should be AIStation.GetStationCoverageRadius 14:12:32 <TrueBrain> I think only people do that if they do not understand acceptance radius 14:12:41 <TrueBrain> which will bring you into trouble sooner or later ;) 14:12:55 <TrueBrain> I also think stating "everyone" is overstating any statement for everyone :D 14:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: but i tried to explain you, that is in pretty much every case the correct value to use 14:13:29 <krinn> i think if you look at any AI people use it, then validate it with AITile.GetCargoAcceptance 14:13:57 <krinn> so using a bigger area and validate it next with AITile... will only lead to correct answer 14:14:29 <krinn> but if you use radius = stationtype_radius, the validate with AITile will never fail and is just unneed :) 14:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, why is that a problem? 14:16:16 <krinn> even admiralAI fail on it :) 14:16:54 <krinn> local platform_length = this._platform_length; 14:16:55 <krinn> /* No useable station yet for this industry, so build a new one. */ 14:16:55 <krinn> local tile_list; 14:16:55 <krinn> if (producing) tile_list = AITileList_IndustryProducing(ind, AIStation.GetCoverageRadius(AIStation.STATION_TRAIN)); 14:16:55 <krinn> else tile_list = AITileList_IndustryAccepting(ind, AIStation.GetCoverageRadius(AIStation.STATION_TRAIN)); 14:17:20 <TrueBrain> that is how the function should be used 14:17:24 <krinn> you can see admiral AI will built a rail station with a size == plaform_length 14:17:46 <krinn> but admiralai will only seek possible position for that station within AIStation.GetCoverageRadius(AIStation.STATION_TRAIN) 14:18:08 <krinn> mislead too in thinking that's the way to seek possible place 14:18:11 <TrueBrain> so set the coverage radius to 1, and default the AI \o/ 14:18:52 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: ok. it fails to consider non-northern tiles. but that is not the fault of this function 14:19:08 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i know, i'm not accusing the function of malfunction 14:19:17 <krinn> just that the doc is kinda misleading on its usage 14:19:26 <TrueBrain> the doc doesnt suggest any usage, does it? 14:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the fix for this is easy. extend the area from this function by width and length in either X or Y direction 14:19:36 <TrueBrain> I do agree the word 'radius' is as ambigious as it can get :P 14:20:08 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: but changing the radius will result in invalid extensions in -X and -Y directions 14:20:12 <krinn> yes TrueBrain that should be more clear the radius is to consider the station size also and not the station type radius 14:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> plus you get in trouble with non-square stations 14:20:27 <TrueBrain> krinn: no, there you are wrong in your assumption :D 14:20:30 <Alberth> krinn: size is 1 dimension, that cannot be right 14:20:40 <TrueBrain> the function is meant to find the tiles on which if any station part exists, gives you cargo acceptance 14:20:41 <TrueBrain> that is all 14:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: people are not using the function to its full potential. but that is not the fault of the documentation 14:21:10 <TrueBrain> the mindfuck here is that you cannot assume stations are rectangle :) 14:21:19 <krinn> yeah TrueBrain but everyone will not use it like that, everyone will use it thinking it answer to "upper right tile" only 14:21:37 <Alberth> krinn: so everyone is wrong :p 14:21:48 <krinn> kinda yes Alberth :) 14:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: still, the fault is not in the description of "radius" 14:21:55 <TrueBrain> krinn: again, please stop with "everyone"; it is overstating sillyness :) 14:22:10 <krinn> TrueBrain, lol yes 14:22:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:22:14 <TrueBrain> but if people think that, they do not grasp what the acceptance stuff is in OpenTTD; that should be clear on a wiki page :) 14:22:27 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: and if you start "teaching" this radius bullshit, you make the situation worse, not better 14:22:36 <Alberth> krinn: people don't read what the documentation says, they read what they think it does. 14:23:02 <TrueBrain> but I fully agree that "radius" should be replaced with "coverage radius" or something, not suggesting the radius of the station itself :) 14:23:23 <andythenorth> radius is bonkers 14:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: which is the exact opposite of what krinn wants :p 14:23:29 <krinn> that's because when "some" read "radius the station will be using", "some" read it as "GetCoverageRadius" answer 14:23:29 * andythenorth is baffled by it 14:23:32 <Alberth> TrueBrain: it says "station type" not "station" 14:23:36 <TrueBrain> Eddi: I know, but what he wants results in broken functionality :) 14:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i've been trying to say that for an hour now 14:24:15 <Alberth> And I am wrong :P krinn QED my remark :) 14:24:40 <TrueBrain> was abot to say .. it says station here :D 14:24:41 <TrueBrain> hihi 14:24:46 <TrueBrain> so either change would clear it up already 14:24:54 <TrueBrain> krinn: it should be used with GetCoverageRadius function 14:25:07 <krinn> guys, i think you can check any AI to see they will always feed it with the station coverage radius instead of the station real coverage radius 14:25:18 <TrueBrain> and they would be correct :D 14:25:20 <krinn> that should be proof "some" are mislead :) 14:25:32 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: yes. that is The Right Way (tm) 14:25:35 <TrueBrain> it is what you do with the result, that matters :) 14:25:48 <TrueBrain> you think it gives a result-set to be used as nothern tile to build on; it does not 14:26:00 <TrueBrain> it returns you the tiles on which, if you would build any station part there, would give you coverage 14:26:07 <TrueBrain> after that, it is your job to do the math 14:26:19 <krinn> exact TrueBrain but i think "some" (grrr i want say everyone) do that 14:26:25 <TrueBrain> as stations dont have to be rectangle, it has no other option 14:26:37 <TrueBrain> that would be their mistake :) The documentation doesnt suggest this behaviour 14:26:46 <TrueBrain> again, it is their lack of understand acceptance radius 14:26:50 <TrueBrain> which might be a problem on its own 14:26:56 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/picxbfxyv ? 14:27:00 <TrueBrain> and as such might require some good explanation on the wiki :) 14:27:20 <TrueBrain> Alberth: less ambigious to me at least 14:27:40 <krinn> it's worst imo :) 14:28:19 <Alberth> krinn: so how to say what the function does then? 14:28:30 <TrueBrain> remember, it doesnt do what you want it to do ;) 14:29:04 <krinn> hmmm, the radius your station will be within 14:29:32 <TrueBrain> basically, for every tile on that list, do -X and -Y of the station size you want to build 14:29:40 <krinn> no, that's bad too, maybe: the radius your station coverage should touch 14:29:41 <TrueBrain> and you have your list ;) 14:30:31 <TrueBrain> Alberth: possibly add another comment: a station part build on any of the tiles resulting from this function will give you coverage 14:30:33 <TrueBrain> or something? 14:31:06 <krinn> TrueBrain, yes something like that would be better, maybe not changing the description but add that 14:31:33 <TrueBrain> well, the current radius description is ambigious, and could use love ;) 14:32:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6B3EB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:32:38 <krinn> i really think many ai authors may use it "badly" because of the blur, even if it might not be because of the description itself i admit 14:32:54 <TrueBrain> acceptance coverage is a pita ;) 14:32:57 <TrueBrain> even as player 14:33:25 <TrueBrain> btw, as a FYI, admiralAI does use it correctly 14:33:30 <TrueBrain> following from after your copy/paste 14:33:38 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pcwlwt2kd 14:33:47 <TrueBrain> it uses these tiles to go -1, -platform_length from it 14:33:51 <TrueBrain> to test if a station can be build 14:34:02 <Alberth> did s/coverage/acceptance/ in the second function 14:34:31 <TrueBrain> Alberth: I hoped you would reword my hard to read english a bit :D 14:34:33 <krinn> Alberth, looks perfect, people may stop think only about uppernorth 14:34:54 <TrueBrain> krinn: line 554 and onwards in trainmanager.nut 14:35:07 <TrueBrain> might give you some suggestions how to use it 14:35:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: "built" 14:35:37 <krinn> TrueBrain, ah yes, sorry, didn't look futher, but not ai author are TrueBrain :) 14:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but it should be reworded a bit, it sounds like terrible english :p 14:35:56 <TrueBrain> Eddi: that is what I just said! :P 14:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:36:17 <Alberth> like this TB? thanks Eddi https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgzgmkxu2 14:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i just wanted to express my agreement to this :p 14:36:39 <TrueBrain> two thumbs up 14:36:46 <TrueBrain> Eddi: :D:D :) 14:36:53 <TrueBrain> (and yes, my tab-autocomplete is broken :P) 14:37:20 <TrueBrain> krinn: I just wanted to clarify the "everyone" part being wrong :P *troll happily now* :D 14:37:26 <krinn> you know what, i'm really happy i didn't open a bug for that, i was sure it would be nightmare, and i'm a seer then :) 14:37:33 <TrueBrain> without joking, the description was poor :) 14:37:45 <TrueBrain> and I can say that, as I am afraid I wrote it :P 14:37:55 <krinn> :D 14:37:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it was poor, but not in the way you expected it to be poor 14:38:22 <TrueBrain> @commit 15027 14:38:24 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by truebrain :: r15027 /trunk (309 files in 30 dirs) (2009-01-12 18:11:45 +0100 ) 14:38:25 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Merge: tomatos and bananas left to be, here is NoAI for all to see. 14:38:26 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: NoAI is an API (a framework) to build your own AIs in. See: 14:38:27 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/AI:Main_Page 14:38:28 <TrueBrain> :( 14:38:28 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: With many thanks to: 14:38:29 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...) 14:38:46 <krinn> i think about it myself because the function test only radius > 0 and not if radius would be some radius taken by a station type... 14:38:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.162.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:38:54 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that is only the merge commit :p 14:39:01 <TrueBrain> fair enough 14:39:07 <TrueBrain> so I can still blame others \o/ 14:39:15 <TrueBrain> I am very good at that 14:39:30 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as nobody digs out the old branch :p 14:39:47 <TrueBrain> omg, we used a subversion branch for it didnt we? 14:39:50 <TrueBrain> damn, that really is years ago 14:39:52 <TrueBrain> well, 6 14:39:53 <TrueBrain> damn 14:39:55 <TrueBrain> 6?! 14:39:57 <TrueBrain> crap, fuck me 14:40:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27287 trunk/src/script/api/script_tilelist.hpp (2015-05-16 16:40:45 +0200 ) 14:40:51 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Clarify radius and semantics of the industry producing/accepting tile functions. 14:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it was probably an svn branch back then... nowadays it would be a separate hg or git repo 14:40:53 <TrueBrain> svn to hg converts are slowwwww 14:41:05 <TrueBrain> \o/ 14:41:44 <krinn> (that was my how to waste everyone life an hour on two words) 14:41:48 <Alberth> less than 6 years slow, I hope :p 14:41:51 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:27 <krinn> thanks guys (for the patience also) 14:43:43 <TrueBrain> mostly I hope it is a bit more clear for you now, how you should use the function etc :) 14:44:06 <krinn> it was clear for me already, but i was thinking about others 14:44:11 <TrueBrain> I like how AdmiralAI tests for 1xN and Nx1 stations; hadnt thought about that before 14:44:32 <TrueBrain> even changing the radius for rectangle stations would be wrong .. hmm .. funny 14:44:42 <TrueBrain> E_GAME_TOO_COMPLEX 14:46:10 <krinn> :D overly complex 14:46:59 <Alberth> that's what happens with random people adding random things to a program :) 14:47:27 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i'm assuming AdmiralAI actually tests for 2xN and Nx2 stations 14:47:52 <TrueBrain> Eddi: given the -1, yes 14:47:58 <TrueBrain> good point :D 14:48:16 <krinn> do you guy upto another issue (of the same kind)? 14:48:27 <TrueBrain> another radius -> coverage radius? :P 14:51:06 <Eddi|zuHause> another hour of us telling you that the issue is in a completely different place? 14:51:21 <krinn> lol yes Eddi|zuHause 14:51:37 <krinn> the exclusive rights on town is too unfair to be use by ai 14:52:01 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a setting to disable those completely... 14:52:04 <krinn> they are robots and can buys all they could, making the game stuck to everyone then 14:52:19 <krinn> as it not only block town, but industry depending on towns 14:52:40 <krinn> buy right of paris, and paris coalmine is block... 14:54:03 <andythenorth> skynet 14:54:08 <TrueBrain> OMG! SKYNET AGAIN 14:54:11 <TrueBrain> *tinfoilhat* 14:54:31 <andythenorth> can I borrow yours when youâre done? 14:54:41 <TrueBrain> *gives andy his tinfoilhat* 14:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> NSA probably runs a copy of skynet in some data center 14:55:16 <krinn> some ai offer ability to disable buying rights, but it should be an option to human player to stop ai doing that imo 14:55:40 <TrueBrain> 1. create a patch 14:55:42 <TrueBrain> 2. submit 14:55:44 <TrueBrain> 3. ??? 14:55:45 <TrueBrain> 4. profit 14:55:47 <TrueBrain> :D 14:56:04 <krinn> i lack underpants to do that :D 14:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause> TMI 14:59:13 <krinn> ok as duckduckgo answer three mile island to TMI i don't think i get it right Eddi|zuHause 14:59:38 <TrueBrain> try it left? 15:00:39 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TMI <-- first nonsponsored google result for me... 15:01:51 <krinn> i'm not really into nuclear catastroph, so i suppose i should be glad duckduckgo really isn't analyzing my queries :) 15:03:22 <krinn> oh actually i got the same link Eddi|zuHause just the short desc was giving three mile island first 15:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> there are some really "interesting" nuclear catastrophes... 15:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> like in russia, a chemical explosion in a nuclear waste plant blew out a long trail of radioactive dust through sibiria 15:06:53 <krinn> well, last time it heard something like that, it was stopped at french frontier for our government ;) 15:13:28 <andythenorth> meh, Iâll have to duplicate every industryâs production cb switches per economy 15:14:01 <andythenorth> just to handle varying number of output cargos 15:14:21 <andythenorth> maybe I could stuff a register 15:14:57 * andythenorth is scared to touch FIRS production code 15:15:07 <andythenorth> itâs complicated, and hard to test 15:15:11 <andythenorth> and I didnât write it 15:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there is probably a simpler solution than what you are currently attempting 15:19:49 *** M3Henry [~m3henry@cpc72389-sotn14-2-0-cust678.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:57 <krinn> anyone using code::block? 15:28:27 <Alberth> perhaps ask what you really want to know? ;) 15:28:56 <Alberth> ie a "yes" answer isn't that interesting, and nobody can say "no" 15:29:07 <krinn> there's a find reference for a function, was wondering if there is some kind of "find function not reference", finding dead code then 15:31:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "I could probably work around it by forcing Passengers to start of the list (probably Mail too)." <-- there used to be hardcoded behaviours for passengers, mail and goods. not sure what happened to them 15:32:19 *** APTX [~APTX@87-207-72-117.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 15:32:43 <Alberth> krinn: but you'd want that for all functions, I guess 15:33:12 <krinn> Alberth, yes 15:33:22 <Alberth> I once wrote a simple script that takes all function-like identifiers, and prints how many uses there are 15:33:51 <krinn> still have hands on it? 15:33:53 <Alberth> you're doing code analysis rather than code editing at that point :) 15:34:28 *** APTX_ [~APTX@87-207-72-117.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:34:28 <krinn> lol yes, trying to slim the beast 15:34:46 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: i'm pretty certain there exist tools to do this 15:35:17 <krinn> would had been a good one in code:blocks as it already have ability to search who use them 15:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: but "find a function that is never used" is tricky, because a function might be used by other programs outside of your own code, if it is exported as a symbol 15:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you're writing a library, you would get loads of false positives 15:36:28 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i'm not asking code:blocks to delete them, just point out what are the ones never used "here", upto me to know if i use them elsewhere 15:37:16 <krinn> and as code::block also analyze the ones use in library, it might even answer less false positives 15:37:26 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/testfuncnames I do, actually, but it's heavily unix-based 15:37:29 <krinn> (as long as the lib is within the project) 15:37:48 <Alberth> and not just ./testfuncnames :) 15:38:21 <krinn> Alberth, perfect, i like sh 15:38:51 <Alberth> but it's not so difficult, find eg "name(", collect all names, and count usage of each 15:39:08 <Alberth> it's heavily tailored to openttd 15:39:21 *** APTX [~APTX@87-207-72-117.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:35 *** APTX [~APTX@87-207-72-117.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 15:39:38 <Alberth> the collection of lines to delete is probably wrong for you 15:42:59 <krinn> got a script to build the funcnames file? 15:43:01 *** M3Henry [~m3henry@cpc72389-sotn14-2-0-cust678.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:44:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: w.r.t production, https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/templates/produce_secondary.pypnml 15:44:44 <andythenorth> the âproblemâ is that num of output cargos is currently a compile-time constant 15:44:56 <andythenorth> there are various possibilities to solve that 15:45:05 <Alberth> krinn: nope, but it's one for-loop, by the looks of it 15:45:06 <andythenorth> I donât like any of them 15:45:44 <krinn> might catch them easy with :: search thx Alberth 15:48:01 <Alberth> andy, you can't have cases that you don't use with some industries? 15:49:13 <andythenorth> ? o_O 15:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the easiest would be replacing THIS_NUM_OUTPUT_CARGO with a LOAD_PERM(var_num_output_cargo) and set this value on construction 15:51:14 <luaduck> hey folks 15:51:24 <andythenorth> âon constructionâ is a bit dubious 15:51:34 <andythenorth> although there are cbs that can be abused for that 15:51:49 <luaduck> our server suffered another segfault last night in Z22UpdateVhicleTimetable, which sounds awfully similar to our last crash 15:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> other option is to use parameters, instead of permanent storage 15:51:54 <luaduck> worth raising a bug for? 15:52:27 <andythenorth> probably will insert a switch, read the economy parameter, user STORE_TEMP there 15:52:31 <andythenorth> use * 15:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and third option is to use temporary storage, with an additional switch that just reads the economy parameter, and pushes the value for the appropriate industry 15:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that switch needs to know all industries, though 15:53:06 <andythenorth> thatâs ok 15:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause> or all economies 15:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have one switch per economy that knows all industries, or one switch per industry that knows all economies 15:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the latter might be cleaner 15:54:27 <andythenorth> the latter 15:54:40 <andythenorth> can be added to the current implementation trivially 16:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you need object oriented nml! 16:01:31 * andythenorth ponders that 16:02:56 <andythenorth> I have object oriented nml :P 16:03:05 <andythenorth> just via layers of complication :| 16:22:02 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.113.189.15] has joined #openttd 16:32:15 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/industry.py 16:32:19 <andythenorth> complication ^ :P 16:34:44 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has joined #openttd 16:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see anything in this pile of code :p 16:40:20 <andythenorth> industry.py is heading towards god-module 16:40:29 <andythenorth> Iâve been wondering about splitting it up 16:40:40 <andythenorth> but itâs so convenient to search it all in one file :P 16:44:32 <andythenorth> eh itâs less than 1k lines, not that bad :P 16:45:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not quite the point :p 16:51:23 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.] 16:52:58 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 17:03:59 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:04:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:10:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19915.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:15:26 <andythenorth> hmm 17:16:17 <andythenorth> I canât STORE_TEMP the number of output cargos in a single switch 17:16:27 <andythenorth> I need one switch per economy 17:16:29 <andythenorth> lame 17:17:54 <Alberth> don't make 60 economies :) 17:18:35 <andythenorth> wondering if I donât understand nml 17:18:41 <andythenorth> well I know the answer to that 17:18:46 <andythenorth> I donât understand nml 17:18:55 <Alberth> me neither :) 17:19:02 <andythenorth> itâs a bit magical tbh 17:19:28 <Alberth> lots of it is newgrf magic, I think 17:19:35 <andythenorth> nfo is unmagical 17:19:37 <andythenorth> no magic at all 17:19:58 <andythenorth> bitshifting and such doesnât count as magic, just tedious 17:20:16 <andythenorth> nfo is just case: result everywhere :) 17:20:34 <Alberth> but what part should be used with what other part is magic in nfo 17:20:52 <andythenorth> ha well maybe :D 17:20:54 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqjydvf7g 17:21:12 <andythenorth> I want to check a parameter, and store a different (compile-time) value depending on the result 17:21:26 <andythenorth> then return the _simple_produce switch 17:21:33 <andythenorth> I think that canât be done 17:22:15 <Alberth> return _simple_produce switch ? 17:22:24 <Alberth> or doesn't it need 'return' ? 17:23:19 <andythenorth> oh that bit works fine 17:23:27 <andythenorth> the problem is storing different vaues 17:23:29 <andythenorth> values * 17:24:43 <Alberth> the var_num_output_cargos ? 17:25:07 <andythenorth> confusingly, thatâs the number of the temp storage 17:25:20 <andythenorth> I am following the established convention, but yes, confusing 17:25:48 <Alberth> oh, the THIS_NUM_OUTPUT_CARGOS then :p 17:25:52 <andythenorth> yes :) 17:26:07 <andythenorth> which will always be 1 or 2 17:26:07 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has quit [Quit: To robbery, slaughter, plunder they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace.] 17:26:09 <Alberth> make that a ?: expression? 17:26:27 <andythenorth> ternary? 17:26:37 * andythenorth wonders if a value can be checked against a list 17:26:43 <Alberth> (economy == 1 || economy == 4) ? 1 : 2 17:26:52 <Alberth> ternary indeed 17:26:54 <andythenorth> that would do it 17:27:09 <andythenorth> OR 17:27:30 <Alberth> 1 + (economy == 1 || economy == 4) 17:28:34 <andythenorth> neater :) 17:28:54 <Alberth> if economy numbering doesn't matter, and you have only one case, you can use a bit of economy itself :p 17:29:14 <Alberth> odd numbers for 2, and even numbers for 1 17:29:21 <andythenorth> unfortunately, it matters :) 17:29:45 <Alberth> well, even if it didn't, it's probably too complicated to want 17:30:54 <Alberth> you make connections between unrelated numbers, that may complicate things later 17:30:59 <andythenorth> this is quite neat now 17:32:00 <Alberth> yay :) 17:34:06 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ptpbgxz5v 17:34:15 * andythenorth hopes the ternary is true : false :P 17:35:17 <Alberth> it is 17:35:42 <Alberth> sort of 'then' : 'else' 17:41:36 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d025b46.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:49:40 <glx> <@Alberth> 1 + (economy == 1 || economy == 4) <-- valid only if test returns 0 or 1 17:51:55 <Alberth> yes, afaik is NML doing that 17:55:09 <andythenorth> it does 17:55:43 <andythenorth> but Iâve used the ternary op. anyway, easier to read for people who donât grok that true = 1 18:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i might have done it more like https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwlhwkjun 18:10:59 <Alberth> ah, I wondered about that 18:11:51 <Alberth> you can only call other switched in the {} part, I guess? 18:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i think so. 18:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> a procedure might help 18:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't know if nml supports them 18:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not 18:16:52 <Eddi|zuHause> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqhi22kns 18:18:04 <Alberth> that would be neat :) 18:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> NFO supports procedures 18:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and at least once i tried teaching them to NML 18:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/nml_call_procedure.diff <-- i don't know if that ever worked 18:22:33 <Eddi|zuHause> there seems to have been a type conversion problem 18:23:07 <Eddi|zuHause> CALL(blah) <-- blah is a switch, but the parameter of a 60x variable is expected to be an integer 18:24:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but i won't investigate this. 18:27:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but doing this via parameter instead of temporary storage may be more efficient 18:28:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but you either have to reserve a parameter for each industry, or use a lot of weird bitstuffing 18:35:40 <M3Henry> I fed up with namespaces 18:35:45 <M3Henry> I'm* 18:36:09 <M3Henry> I cannot for the life of me work out why this object cannot be found 18:57:04 <andythenorth> me neither 19:03:52 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 19:06:29 *** M3Henry [~m3henry@cpc72389-sotn14-2-0-cust678.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:19:11 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host246-73-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:19:17 <Wolf01> hi hi 19:29:01 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:29:25 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has joined #openttd 19:36:25 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.113.189.15] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.9.7 Beta Build (2015/05/16)64 Bit] 19:37:06 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.113.189.15] has joined #openttd 19:39:25 <Alberth> hi hi 19:45:54 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has quit [Quit: To robbery, slaughter, plunder they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace.] 19:46:29 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has joined #openttd 20:15:52 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:20:20 *** mosquitobait [~oftc-webi@cpe-72-177-117-17.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:22:21 <mosquitobait> I have forgotten the name of a NewGRF (or am blind to the settings option?) that let me enable all industries on any climate. Could someone remind me of the name, or point me at the setting for that? 20:23:00 <Alberth> it's not a setting in the game at least 20:23:01 <Wolf01> that was "bad feature" and I think is gone now 20:23:21 <Wolf01> the climate change cheat 20:23:24 <Alberth> opengfx+industries may come close 20:23:29 <mosquitobait> Not climate change. 20:23:46 <Alberth> it doesn't do toyland though, so not all climates 20:24:57 <Alberth> I don't know if you can have all industries tbh, perhaps there are more than 32 cargoes 20:26:19 <Alberth> why do you want all industries? 20:26:24 <mosquitobait> Yes, OpenGFX+ industries lets me add diamond/gold, but I also had bananas/rubber and food processor on a temperate world. It did prevent generation of normal forests, but I figure having useless lumber mills is an okay penalty for adding the food chain and rubber. 20:27:29 <Alberth> you checked the parameter settings of opengfx+industries, right? 20:27:53 <mosquitobait> yeah, but it may have downloaded an update to it, didn't restart the game yet 20:28:19 * andythenorth recommends using a proper industry grf :P 20:28:56 <mosquitobait> andythenorth: If the "proper industry grf" didn't make world generation take 20 minutes I'd use it more often :) 20:29:16 <andythenorth> :o 20:29:26 <andythenorth> sounds like a bug 20:29:28 <andythenorth> what map size? 20:29:58 <Alberth> could also be a town name generator problem? 20:30:29 <andythenorth> 1024x1024 takes about 8s for me with FIRS 20:33:38 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:34:51 <mosquitobait> I swear it was just a normal settings option - I have it in a 1.5.0 game on my laptop... 20:40:54 <Alberth> look at the loaded newgrfs in-game? 20:42:01 <Alberth> changing availability of default industries is a quite easy newgrf, so I can see it would exist 20:43:11 <mosquitobait> No NewGRF on my laptop mentions it now, but I'm looking right at temperate copper mines and a factory taking steel rubber and copper... 20:44:03 <Alberth> there are no newgrfs loaded in that game? 20:44:13 <Alberth> woow 20:44:56 <krinn> might be because it's not openttd :) 20:45:01 <mosquitobait> Alberth: where'd you get that interpretation from? 20:45:24 <Alberth> "No NewGRF on my laptop mentions it now" 20:45:30 <mosquitobait> Yeah? 20:45:38 <Alberth> from there 20:45:47 <mosquitobait> Where do you get "no newgrfs installed" from that? 20:46:04 <mosquitobait> I could have a thousand installed with none mentioning it... 20:46:25 <Alberth> I asked for having a look at the newgrfs in that game 20:46:44 <Alberth> since that game must enable it in some way 20:46:56 <Alberth> and the only proper way is by newgrf 20:47:06 <mosquitobait> Found fforum posts for OpenGFX+ Industries suggesting it did it. Maybe that got remove in 0.3.5. 20:47:46 <Sylf> 0.3.5 works just fine 20:47:48 *** M3Henry [~m3henry@cpc72389-sotn14-2-0-cust678.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:48:01 *** roidal_ [~roland@194-152-173-80.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 20:48:05 <Alberth> if you prefer looking through a zillion unused newgrfs instead of at most 63 used newgrfs, fine 20:49:03 <mosquitobait> Sylf: Yes, it does, but the options that enabled copper/banana/rubber/food on temperate aren't showing up on my games for 0.3.5. 20:49:19 <Sylf> It shows up for me. 20:49:26 <Sylf> Where are you looking for those options? 20:49:48 <Sylf> NewGRF Parameters for OpenGFX+ Industries? 20:50:02 <Sylf> Or game options or settings? 20:50:19 <mosquitobait> Sylf: parameters. 20:50:43 <Sylf> Do you see the warning message saying that the newgrf is disabled? 20:50:59 <Sylf> probable due to having a conflicting industry newgrf? 20:51:01 <mosquitobait> Sylf: I'm seeing coal chain, oil chain, bank chain, and oil well restrictions. The other industry options aren't there. 20:51:27 <Sylf> Do you see the scroll bar on that window? 20:51:48 <Sylf> or resize that window 20:51:55 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:51:59 <mosquitobait> Sylf: Thank you for pointing out my being a moron :) 20:52:01 <Sylf> If you're on a tablet device, it may be the fault of that 20:52:20 <mosquitobait> Sylf: The window is only showing four rows, even fthough there's probably height for 12. 20:52:36 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3C25.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:52:40 <Sylf> the bottom half is used to display the description of each settings 20:52:42 <mosquitobait> Sylf: Now that I see the scroll bar, I found them :)( 20:53:30 <Sylf> ok, another myth busted. Dum dee dum. 21:07:06 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest5442 21:07:11 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:07:46 <andythenorth> bye 21:07:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:12:33 *** Guest5442 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:18 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest5445 21:17:23 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:19:32 *** Guest5445 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:23:16 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3C25.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:42:01 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has quit [Quit: To robbery, slaughter, plunder they give the lying name of empire; they make a desert and call it peace.] 21:44:24 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:57 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2.221.246.223] has joined #openttd 22:09:27 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:10:22 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:24:13 <Wolf01> 'night 22:24:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:37:11 *** M3Henry [~m3henry@cpc72389-sotn14-2-0-cust678.15-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:06 *** mosquitobait [~oftc-webi@cpe-72-177-117-17.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:55:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19915.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]