Log for #openttd on 6th August 2015:
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02:37:46  <supermop> hello
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03:13:58  <JeanDarc> :(
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06:10:20  <Alberth> moin peoples
06:11:19  <V453000> hy humie
06:29:48  <ade> hi
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08:13:55  <Taede> moin
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08:21:06  <planetmaker> ho
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08:22:27  <V453000> hu
08:22:58  *** Guest792 is now known as openbu
08:32:02  <openbu> Can I join the
08:34:41  <Alberth> join?
08:35:48  <Alberth> Perhaps you mean to create a new project?    2nd point
08:36:19  <Alberth> or do you want to get a project from the repository?
08:36:33  <openbu> THANKS
08:36:57  <V453000> answer is yes Alberth
08:37:22  <Alberth> clearly, to which suggestion is not entirely clear though :)
08:39:26  <openbu>
08:39:33  <openbu> thanks
08:46:00  <Alberth> yw :)
09:09:13  <planetmaker> openbu, sure. Anyone who wants to contribute to OpenTTD in the broader sense is welcome there
09:11:22  <planetmaker> New registrants cannot yet create a project yet. Thus your first project needs to be approved, but that's more a formality
09:11:48  <planetmaker> :)
09:12:20  <planetmaker> (that's additional to creating a personal account)
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09:21:01  <openbu> thanks to planetmaker,The number of contributors is I want to contribute the openTTD project.
09:23:04  <Alberth> doing what?
09:23:51  <openbu> First,NewGRF,,,32bpp
09:24:06  <Alberth> great
09:24:49  <Alberth> what type? trains, road vehicles, ships, aircraft, landscape, industries?
09:26:09  <openbu> All,,,Baseset,,,industries
09:27:20  <Alberth> :O   lots of sprites :)
09:28:11  <planetmaker> :)
09:28:53  <Alberth> people seem to switch from a simple newgrf to a 'simple' baseset, nowadays :)
09:31:05  <planetmaker> well :) It usually is a good idea to make both: a series of (simple) NewGRFs. And then to combine those in a base set
09:31:29  <planetmaker> But one really has to make sure the NewGRFs don't get complicated or it will be much more work :)
09:31:42  <planetmaker> No fancy stuff in the NewGRFs... mostly just actionA (simple replacement)
09:35:46  <openbu>
09:35:50  <openbu>
09:36:14  <openbu>
09:39:02  <openbu> I want to contribute to NewGRF,Real-World,Patch.
09:52:57  <Alberth> what is your contribution? It looks like a plain copy of code from here
09:54:24  <Alberth> contributions are always in source code form, never in binary zip files
10:01:07  <qwebirc61183> where can I find the changelog for 1.5.2?
10:01:30  <qwebirc61183> even in the github repo I can't find anything useful when searching for changelog
10:02:27  <qwebirc61183>
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10:03:04  <TrueBrain> 1.5.2 isnt released (yet); 1.5.2-RC1 is
10:03:46  <qwebirc61183> are there only changelogs for stable releases?
10:03:49  <TrueBrain> easiest to find the changelog is via
10:04:03  <TrueBrain> and for stables
10:07:03  <qwebirc61183> TrueBrain: THANKS a lot! I just didn't see this link to changelog... :/
10:07:37  <TrueBrain> it is also in our repos (changelog.txt), but the github sync of our repos is of trunk only
10:07:42  <TrueBrain> not of our 1.5 branch
10:08:38  <qwebirc61183> so where else can I find your repos?
10:08:51  <TrueBrain> svn://, if my memory serves me right
10:09:17  <TrueBrain> or the git sync:, there branches/1.5
10:09:52  <TrueBrain> (and mercurial is also available, if you fancy that :P)
10:10:19  <TrueBrain> or
10:10:28  <TrueBrain> but I wouldnt recommend a WebDAV entry for anything sane :P
10:10:45  <TrueBrain> I believe we created too many entry points for the same thing :D:D
10:11:04  <qwebirc61183> mercurial? I've never heard of that before :D github and svn is quite common I guess, but mercurial?
10:11:11  <TrueBrain> hg
10:11:14  <TrueBrain> very well known
10:11:36  <TrueBrain> bitbucket, is a fine example of the github counter part in mercurial
10:16:08  <Alberth> mercurial is a lot like git, but with a sane user interface
10:16:22  <TrueBrain> 'sane' in the eye of the beholder, ofc :D
10:16:32  <TrueBrain> *ignites the flamewar*
10:17:25  <Alberth> hmm, I should collect nice example of git sanity :p
10:17:36  * blathijs really loves git and hates hg, but I agree that hg's ui is more sane :-)
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10:17:44  <qwebirc72391> the damn webchat has crashed ...
10:18:19  <qwebirc72391> i should've used a full irc client (even for little questions)
10:18:48  <qwebirc72391> well, why would you need a sane user interface?
10:18:59  <Alberth> usually the length of the answer is more important :)
10:19:05  <TrueBrain> because insane user interfaces are harder to work with :D:D:D
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10:19:23  <TrueBrain> just imagine .. an interface where the letters jump around
10:19:27  <TrueBrain> where no button is ever on the same place
10:19:27  <qwebirc72391> :D
10:19:32  <TrueBrain> where the colors play around with you
10:19:34  <TrueBrain> the insanity :D
10:19:41  <qwebirc72391> true :)
10:19:54  <Alberth> just random moving elements around is sufficient, I think :)
10:20:01  <qwebirc72391> but I was more like: why would you need an ser interface?
10:20:05  <qwebirc72391> *user
10:20:34  <TrueBrain> well, without it using a computer is so hard
10:20:38  <TrueBrain> you want to talk to it?
10:20:46  <TrueBrain> use morse code to communicate with it?
10:20:49  <Alberth> note that command-line is also a user interface here
10:20:49  <qwebirc72391> sure, you don't?
10:21:05  <TrueBrain> :D
10:21:23  <Alberth> wait, it speaks morse code??
10:21:34  <Alberth> damn, I should have learned that :)
10:21:34  <TrueBrain> yours doesnt??!!
10:21:53  <Alberth> nah, mine only does 0s and 1s
10:22:13  <TrueBrain> which translates fine to morse, not? :)
10:22:15  <Alberth> maybe I should upgrade
10:22:16  <TrueBrain> short vs long? :D
10:22:52  <Alberth> it also has short and long pauses :)
10:23:05  <TrueBrain> we call that -0 and -1
10:23:06  <TrueBrain> :D
10:23:14  <Alberth> :)
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10:23:41  <TrueBrain> hello Wolf01
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10:23:44  <Wolf01> hi hi
10:23:47  <randomname> this damn webchat :D
10:24:06  <randomname> now it should be more stable ...
10:24:09  <TrueBrain> oeh, a IPv6 user
10:24:11  <TrueBrain> scary :P
10:24:16  <randomname> (:
10:24:54  <randomname> Sometimes Deutsche Telekom is a nice provider
10:25:11  <TrueBrain> I am still waiting for my native IPv6 support :(
10:25:17  <TrueBrain> once again they stopped the rollout of it ..
10:25:56  <randomname> where are you from?
10:26:06  <TrueBrain> from my mother; why?
10:26:17  <randomname> :D
10:26:23  <Wolf01> ahah
10:26:30  <Alberth> moin W
10:27:30  <randomname> I was wondering if you are maybe from Germany, because Germany is usually a pretty bad v6 country
10:27:54  <TrueBrain> every country is bad in IPv6
10:28:08  <TrueBrain> at least datacenters have their shit together relative well the last few months
10:28:12  <TrueBrain> most offer it natively now
10:28:15  <TrueBrain> so that is a start
10:28:21  <TrueBrain> ISPs are slowly following ... but slowly
10:28:49  <TrueBrain> at least everyone understand it is needed, no longer optional :)
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10:28:54  <Alberth> don't want to disturb XP users :p
10:29:32  <randomname> wait, XP doesn't support v6? :D
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10:29:52  <randomname> shit, I have to update in like 5 years :D
10:30:38  <randomname> I think as an ISP you can't buy any new v4 ranges, can you?
10:31:30  <Flygon> My ISP supports IPv6 very well
10:31:36  <Flygon> My Modem is stuck in 1997 >_>
10:31:49  <randomname> 56k?
10:31:52  <Flygon> Doesn't even support WPA2-Enterprise to prevent Windows 10 shenanigans :(
10:31:58  <Flygon> 1997 was an exaeration
10:32:01  <Flygon> exageration*
10:32:07  <Flygon> More... 2007-2009
10:32:16  <Flygon> Best I got is WPA2 Wireless N
10:32:18  <Flygon> Shower time!
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10:34:31  <randomname> What's the advantage of WPA2-Enterprise over common WPA2?
10:35:36  <blathijs> randomname: You don't normally buy IP ranges at all, they just get assigned freely to members of the regional registries (RIPE / ARIN / etc.). However, now that ipv4 is nearly gone, there will be a waiting list soon.
10:36:00  <blathijs> It does sometimes happen that companies sell ipv4 space the are no longer using among each other
10:37:25  <randomname> blathijs: thanks, didn't know that. I just read things like "the very last v4 range sold" from time to time
10:39:12  <blathijs> randomname: There is a global registry, IANA, which assigns ranges (in blocks of 2^24 addresses) to local registries (roughly by continent). IANA has assigned all of its blocks IIRC, but the regional registries still have some space left from their last assigned block
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10:42:11  <randomname> alright
10:42:17  <randomname> thanks again
10:43:12  <randomname> it just remembered
10:43:51  <blathijs> randomname: Everyone one of those squares is a 2^24 block I mentioned
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11:01:28  <randomname> do you have any influence on the repos of ubuntu? 1.5.0 is their version right now
11:03:03  * blathijs has
11:03:48  <blathijs> Seems Ubuntu has 1.5.1, at least in the latest Ubuntu version?
11:04:29  <blathijs> (I'm the Debian maintainer for OpenTTD, so the packages I upload to Debian typically get synced automatically to Ubuntu, so I don't have a direct influence on this)
11:05:09  <blathijs> randomname: It actually seems 1.5.0 is not in _any_ Ubuntu version right now?
11:09:59  <randomname> blathijs: for me, it's 1.5.0-1~getdeb1 (utopic-getdeb)
11:10:23  <randomname> but maybe, I just need to change my package sources
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11:45:55  <CCHyper> Good Afternoon, is was wondering if there are any developers active at the moment?
11:47:45  <Xaroth|Work> there are developers active all the time
11:47:53  <Xaroth|Work> but you'd have to be a bit more specific than that :P
11:49:22  <blathijs> randomname: Seems you have it installed from "getdeb", which I think is a non-official repository. Not sure who maintains that. The official utopic repo only has up to 1.4.1, so you can either upgrade your Ubuntu, just pick up the openttd packages from the latest ubuntu, or get a .deb file from
11:49:51  <Xaroth|Work> ^ that last bit will most likely work best
11:50:20  <CCHyper> hah, i'm mainly after the initial creator or the developer that has the most overall decision? I have some questions as I have a very similar project in development for another game.
11:50:57  <CCHyper> Xaroth|Work: apolagies, im multitasking while at work and hiding from the boss lol
11:51:11  <Xaroth|Work> CCHyper: as my name suggests, so am i :)
11:51:33  <CCHyper> heh
11:53:06  <Alberth> not sure if there is one, and/or he is still around
11:53:22  <randomname> blathijs: I'm using the .deb file from right now, but it's not the easiest way I guess :) I'm just checking my package sources
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11:53:55  <openbu> I'm available all the time.:)
11:54:11  <CCHyper> mkay, basicly, what is the legal stand point of OpenTTD. As far as i know, its a 1:1 clone of the assembly?
11:54:20  <blathijs> randomname: It's the easiest way to always have the latest version, I guess (since those packages are automatically built on a release, all repositories need some manual work)
11:56:30  <Alberth> doing openrct2?  :)
11:56:47  <Alberth> well, your guess is as good as mine, I think
11:58:30  <CCHyper> Alberth: I can't mention the name, but its a well known franchise. the project has been going for 5+ years behind doors and I need to understand what legal issues similar projects have encountered
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12:00:32  <__ln__> obviously OpenTTD is in the legally gray area, but has afaik avoided issues because the copyright holder isn't actively pursuing their rights.
12:01:07  <openbu> I'm doing open capitalismlab,based upon openTTD....:)
12:01:14  <__ln__> not even gray, some parts are definitely copyright violations
12:01:28  <CCHyper> what parts in specific?
12:01:30  <TrueBrain> they are? *makes notes, this might be important*
12:01:31  <blathijs> CCHyper: AFAIK the origins of OpenTTD are a bit shady. The original creator (ludde) has left the project long ago, but I believe some kind of disassembling/reimplementation has happened.
12:02:09  <blathijs> CCHyper: However, we've attempted to get permission to use the artwork, but nobody really knows who owns the rights
12:02:32  <blathijs> CCHyper: So in practice, no actual legal *issues* have been encountered AFAIK
12:02:35  <CCHyper> TrueBrain: ...not the OpenDUNE guy are you?
12:02:47  <TrueBrain> *hides behind a rock or something*
12:02:56  <CCHyper> no f* way, long time no see!
12:03:09  <blathijs> CCHyper: I was just about to suggest OpenDUNE, since I think they've actually started out from assembly and slowly replaced all of that by C AFAIK
12:03:19  <Xaroth|Work> CCHyper: so you remember him, but not me? pffffffffff
12:03:21  <Xaroth|Work> i feel insulted
12:03:24  * Xaroth|Work trods off
12:03:25  <CCHyper> sorry?
12:03:28  <CCHyper> :(
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12:03:33  <CCHyper> it rungs a bell
12:03:51  <Xaroth|Work> TrueBrain has always been a bell-boy, yes
12:04:05  <CCHyper> TrueBrain: dont remember me?
12:04:09  <CCHyper> lool
12:04:19  <TrueBrain> sorry, which channel was this again?
12:04:47  <Alberth> #open<something> ? :)
12:04:56  <CCHyper> OpenDUNE forums, along with Nyerguds. no?
12:05:09  <Xaroth|Work> CCHyper: his brain is worse than a sieve
12:05:14  <CCHyper> haha
12:05:21  <TrueBrain> which brain?
12:05:31  <Alberth> perhaps the true one?
12:05:32  <CCHyper> one between the legs?
12:05:43  <Xaroth|Work> that one's too small to be of any use
12:05:45  * Xaroth|Work runs for the hills
12:05:47  <TrueBrain> awesome, my brain can grow and shrink in minutes
12:06:03  <TrueBrain> *well, this conversation took a turn for the worst*
12:06:15  <Xaroth|Work> oh please
12:06:19  <Xaroth|Work> it was destined to fail anyhow
12:06:41  <TrueBrain> I am sorry CCHyper, I am in no mood to have a normal conversation with :P
12:07:31  <CCHyper> haha
12:07:38  <Xaroth|Work> Alberth: you going to take that shot for open goal or shall I?
12:07:40  <CCHyper> well this is quite important, can i drop you a PM?
12:08:00  <Alberth> be my guest :)
12:08:13  <TrueBrain> not much I can be of any help regarding legal stuff
12:08:26  <CCHyper> what was the satus with OpenDUNE?
12:08:30  <TrueBrain> I guess you can just better ask what you want to ask here, in the hope someone can answer
12:08:56  <TrueBrain> for OpenDUNE I did my atmost to contact the legal owner of Dune2, asking permission for the work
12:09:10  <TrueBrain> as that person turned out to be unfindable (all legal channels ended up with: we do not hold the legal right blablabla)
12:09:14  <TrueBrain> it is grey
12:09:31  <TrueBrain> I always said: when ever someone makes the claim we are not allowed to do it, we pull down the code immediatly
12:09:33  <TrueBrain> it is that simple
12:09:47  <TrueBrain> as no profit is gained in any way what-so-ever, I doubt someone will mind or give a fuzz about a game from 1995
12:09:50  <TrueBrain> but it is possible
12:10:17  <TrueBrain> legally, I have the proof I did my atmost to get permission, so legally I cannot be held financial resposible; I just would have to pull the project down
12:10:21  <TrueBrain> (which of course is no issue)
12:10:21  <Alberth> keeping a safe distance from the official title is important imho
12:10:59  <TrueBrain> Alberth: that, and not hiding the nature of the project
12:11:40  <randomname> official title                 is this distance safe enough?
12:11:53  <TrueBrain> no, 2 spaces more
12:11:57  <randomname> damn it
12:12:04  <Alberth> you may want to check the license of the game too, some explicitly forbid reverse engineering
12:12:26  <TrueBrain> some? Not all? :D
12:12:33  <TrueBrain> most country laws even disallow it these days :)
12:12:36  <Xaroth|Work> and in most cases, you'll first get a C&D
12:12:49  <CCHyper> well OpenRA has not had such iirc
12:12:56  <CCHyper> openRCT?
12:15:29  <TrueBrain> mainly, from what I have noticed, companies only start to care if you are eating away from their profit (and they are right at minding at that point)
12:16:25  <CCHyper> yea, this is true and i understand it
12:16:54  <CCHyper> and becuase of that, i dont want any link with people making donations if we go public
12:17:00  <CCHyper> people suggested it, but i have been agaisnt it
12:17:26  <TrueBrain> and I guess it is important to remember you can never reach the state: legal, when a game is reversed engineered; at best it stays: grey
12:17:42  <TrueBrain> (or of course the legal owner says it is legal :P)
12:17:49  <CCHyper> yea
12:18:09  <Xaroth|Work> but no legal owner in their right mind would ever do that :P
12:18:35  <TrueBrain> it is in their best interest to keep it grey, yes :)
12:18:51  <TrueBrain> or they most really loooovvveeeee you :)
12:18:56  <CCHyper> are there cases where games companies have completly chewed up a project?
12:19:02  <Xaroth|Work> several
12:19:10  <CCHyper> what companies?
12:19:23  <Alberth> it's easy, just threaten with a lawyer, and you're done, basically
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12:21:12  <Eddi|zuHause> <Alberth> you may want to check the license of the game too, some explicitly forbid reverse engineering <-- german copyright says such license terms are void
12:21:34  <Alberth> :)
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12:21:52  <Alberth> not everybody lives in gernmany, you know ;)
12:22:58  <CCHyper> so im safe if i move to germany?
12:23:08  <TrueBrain> kinda the oposite :P
12:23:25  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not :p
12:23:51  <TrueBrain> EU law disallows reverse enginering outside of fair-use
12:24:04  <TrueBrain> I am sure Germany topped that, and made it even worse :)
12:24:10  <CCHyper> oh
12:24:14  <randomname> really?
12:24:44  <Eddi|zuHause> germany doesn't deal in "fair use". basically, german law knows two kinds of reverse engineering
12:24:55  <randomname> but isn't a project like this fair-use?
12:25:01  <Xaroth|Work> not really
12:25:04  <TrueBrain> in EU, you can reverse engineer, say, a library, to understand how it communicates, and implement your own
12:25:15  <Eddi|zuHause> the first kind is non-invasive (running the program and prodding it from all sides you could as a normal user), whose results are freely usable
12:25:24  <TrueBrain> you cannot distribute the reversed engineered code of such library ;)
12:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and invasive (decompiling/disassembling), whose results you can only use for "bug fixes", and not use to release a similar product
12:26:25  <TrueBrain> US law is similar btw
12:26:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that latter kind you are free to distribute to anyone who has a license for the original program
12:27:17  <CCHyper> what about the open Theme Hospital project, anyone eknow aobut that?
12:27:25  <randomname> wow, that's worse than expected (for me)...
12:27:39  <Xaroth|Work> CorsixTH?
12:27:41  <Alberth> corsix-th  rewrites from scratch
12:27:53  <Xaroth|Work> that's a reimplementation, not a reverse engineering project
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12:28:17  <Xaroth|Work> however, they are still in the same grey area for using the original graphics/sounds/data
12:28:30  <randomname> openttd was (partly) reverse engineered?
12:28:50  <Alberth> they don't distribute the graphics/etc, people have to buy their own copy
12:28:57  <Alberth> which is just a few dollar
12:29:30  <Eddi|zuHause> randomname: we don't really know what ludde did. he claimed whatever he did was covered by swedish copyright law at the time. any of us rely on the GPL for legality of the project after that
12:30:13  <randomname> Eddi|zuHause: and nobody ever came to sue you?
12:30:14  <TrueBrain> sweden was one of the last countries which disallowed reverse engineering (outside of the fiar use)
12:30:24  <Eddi|zuHause> randomname: no, otherwise we'd probably be gone
12:31:39  <randomname> i didn't imagine it's such a legal grey area to rewrite such an old game
12:32:07  <TrueBrain> isnt it common sense?
12:32:21  <TrueBrain> someone made something, worked hard for it, tried to sell it
12:32:21  <Alberth> copyright expiration takes a long time :)
12:33:04  <TrueBrain> I guess the term "old game" is at issue here :P
12:33:14  <TrueBrain> lately we have seen a lot of 8bit games doing very well on stuff like Steam
12:33:19  <TrueBrain> "old" became a relative term :)
12:33:23  <blathijs> Copyright experation terms were made with books in mind, not games :-)
12:33:24  <Xaroth|Work> author's life + 70 years is going to suck quite a bit, yeah
12:33:26  <randomname> if i was the owner of transport tycoon, who doesnt sell any copies today (i guess) i wouldn't mind
12:33:42  <TrueBrain> not minding doesn't make it legal :)
12:33:50  <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: no, copyright expiration terms were made with disney movies in mind
12:34:05  <__ln__> and not selling any copies right now doesn't mean not selling any copies in the future.
12:34:06  <randomname> TrueBrain: I would officially tell you I don't mind
12:34:10  <Alberth> randomname: you would, as the franchise becomes worthless if you allow it
12:34:17  <Eddi|zuHause> before disney, it was something like "release date + 20 years"
12:34:18  <Xaroth|Work> randomname: On 15 July 2013, Chris Sawyer's 31X Ltd and Origin8 Technologies announced that they were working on a mobile version of Transport Tycoon.
12:34:20  <TrueBrain> randomname: I think your lawyer would advise against it :)
12:34:31  <randomname> hm...
12:34:32  <__ln__> 8-bit NES games are sold today in Wii store
12:34:45  <__ln__> 8-bit old games from the 80s
12:34:56  <Alberth> aka retro gaming :)
12:35:11  <TrueBrain> and of course it is something to be proud at, as writing of a game, that 20 years later, 131 people in an IRC channel are still keeping the game alive
12:35:16  <randomname> well, I guess my world view on copyright is still too simple (and too naive) :D
12:35:19  <TrueBrain> s/writing/writer/
12:35:49  <TrueBrain> I mean .. you can't do it much better than that in my opinion :)
12:36:24  <TrueBrain> but ... law and personal feelings are 2 worlds apart :)
12:36:28  <randomname> yeah, but if they would have sued you, prbably 0 ppl would mind today
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12:37:00  <Alberth> some would, but not much you can do
12:37:19  <Alberth> unless you have some $$ at the bank with lots of zeroes
12:37:30  <randomname> like 0000000000$ ?
12:37:31  <Xaroth|Work> minding and protecting your intellectual property are two different things, randomname
12:37:33  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: Really? Never knew that :-)
12:38:39  <randomname> Xaroth_: yeah, sad, but true
12:38:40  <CCHyper> this is interesting, so as a collective of minds, how do you think i should proceed?
12:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: the irony of the situation is that disney built his empire on works where copyright was expired, and they now deny this to artists around the world
12:39:03  <TrueBrain> wire me 1,000,000 EUR, of course
12:39:09  <TrueBrain> but that is unrelated to this conversation
12:39:16  <randomname> :D
12:39:42  <CCHyper> haha
12:40:55  <randomname> copytights of games expire 70 years after the author's death? so maybe 100+ years after release
12:41:31  <randomname> i wonder if it will be possible to even play the games after such a long time
12:41:40  <Eddi|zuHause> randomname: most computer program authors are quite young, so 100 years is probably not enough
12:41:46  <randomname> mouse? keyboard? lolwat
12:42:00  <TrueBrain> randomname: [14:33] <blathijs> Copyright experation terms were made with books in mind, not games :-)
12:42:01  <TrueBrain> :D
12:42:02  <Alberth> playability is not needed for copyright
12:43:24  <randomname> Eddi|zuHause: do you know why they changed it from 20 years to 70 years after death?
12:44:31  <Eddi|zuHause> randomname: basically, every time copyright was about to run out they launched a campaign "we need to earn money or the creative industry dies", and copyright was extended
12:45:14  <randomname> Eddi|zuHause: and maybe some of this money went into some politician's pocket
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12:45:22  <TrueBrain> maybe?
12:45:24  <TrueBrain> some?
12:45:25  <Eddi|zuHause> quite a lot of it, i assume.
12:45:36  <Xaroth|Work> most definitely and boatloads
12:45:38  <TrueBrain> Lobiest is a job .. ;)
12:45:43  <Eddi|zuHause> that's just how it works...
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12:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know any political system that could even begin to resolve that
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12:47:18  <Eddi|zuHause> even a completely direct democracy has people in key positions that influence a lot of people
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12:47:59  <randomname> you mean like the media?
12:48:49  <Eddi|zuHause> for example
12:50:11  <Xaroth|Work> < Eddi|zuHause> even a completely direct democracy has people in key positions that influence a lot of people << that also has a bit to do with the fact that most people are idiots :P
12:50:44  <TrueBrain> he, who are you calling an idiot?!
12:50:58  <Xaroth|Work> that dude behind you
12:51:08  <Eddi|zuHause> sure. but there's no way to change that. the 80-20 rule applies independent from the average education level
12:51:09  <TrueBrain> *is scared*
12:51:14  <TrueBrain> *thought he was home alone*
12:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> *switch to commercials*
12:52:18  <TrueBrain> end of season final :)
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12:52:48  <randomname> TrueBrain: of what?
12:53:02  <Xaroth|Work> Two and a half OpenTTD Devs.
12:53:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i know who the half one is, but where do you find the other two?
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12:54:57  <randomname> they're Kirby and Paul
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13:02:25  <Eddi|zuHause> randomname: the vehicles are usually named after people involved with the original transport tycoon development/testing
13:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause> in the first version, they had real names, but it was changed later for some reason
13:04:00  <blathijs> Trademark issues? ;-)
13:04:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was some preemptive move to avoid such issues
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13:10:15  <randomname> :D so my guess wasn't too bad
13:15:52  <supermop> hello
13:16:15  <supermop> decent amount of chat going on in here for a summer day
13:16:37  <randomname> it's too hot outside
13:16:51  <__ln__> real vehicle names often are names of people involved with creating them
13:17:01  <V453000> sup mop :)
13:19:02  <supermop> hello v
13:19:08  <supermop> you get paid yet?
13:19:12  <CCHyper> Alberth: TrueBrain Xaroth|Work thanks for the insight, ill see how it plays out when we get there :)
13:19:13  <V453000> aye sir
13:19:19  <supermop> good good
13:19:36  <V453000> I figured I didnt have business paypal account :D but all got sorted out in the end
13:19:41  <TrueBrain> CCHyper: good luck :)
13:19:53  <supermop> now coffee time
13:20:08  <V453000> holyshititisaTrueBrain
13:20:14  <V453000> is like seeing a unicorn
13:20:36  <TrueBrain> but ..... unicorns don't exist; ergo, I do not exist
13:20:44  <TrueBrain> *disolves in a cloud of logic*
13:20:57  <V453000> omg not the logic cloud
13:21:06  <V453000> you will be missed
13:24:32  <randomname> TrueBrain: new mission: refuse this mission
13:26:33  <Alberth> cloud will take care of any logical mistakes
13:27:00  <V453000> that is what the dutch say
13:30:35  <Alberth> we stop water in liquid form, under high wind conditions, you think that a floating collection of droplets scares us?  :)
13:31:35  <V453000> I meant it in a different way, cloud as in a weed cloud :P
13:37:27  <Alberth> oh sure, right after I went to the red light district on my wooden shoes, and buying some tulips
13:38:37  <TrueBrain> :D:D:D
13:39:09  <planetmaker> :D :)
13:39:27  <planetmaker> he'll come chase you on a wave of beer ;)
13:40:03  <Alberth> don't think he'll like Heineken much :)
13:40:25  <planetmaker> it has to carry him from CZ to NL. So it'll likely be Pilzen beer or such ;)
13:40:35  <Alberth> :)
13:40:39  <planetmaker> (and yes, that's better than Heineken :P )
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14:20:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: you forgot the caravan.
14:22:29  <Alberth> I should really follow some "typical Dutch" classes ;)
14:27:11  <V453000> heineken is alright
14:27:25  <V453000> but yeah grab a caravan and bring it! :P
14:28:15  <fjb> Moin
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15:10:25  <supermop> any pilsner is better than heineken
15:10:36  <supermop> unless its bud light
15:10:47  <supermop> or miller light
15:11:29  <supermop> any real pils from cz is out of sight of heineken
15:12:53  <planetmaker> pilzener is from CZ ;)
15:14:33  <Eddi|zuHause> czech budweiser and american budweiser don't even play in the same league :p
15:14:42  <__ln__> by a strange coincidence, there's a city called Pilsen in cz
15:15:02  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i don't think it's a coincidence at all :p
15:15:04  <supermop> i don't think that is a coincidence
15:15:22  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: i actually do not care for budvar
15:15:30  <planetmaker> I don't think __ln__ didn't use irony
15:15:34  <__ln__> well me neither, as i've visited it and the beer museum there.
15:15:42  <supermop> also as bad as budweiser is, it is much much better than bud light
15:15:43  <Eddi|zuHause> there's also a city called budweis in cz :)
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15:16:41  <supermop> the us has amazing small craft beers, but the main breweries are still amongst the most disappointing in the world
15:16:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i ever had an american beer at all.
15:16:57  <supermop> you are missing out eddi, I will shi you some
15:17:00  <supermop> ship
15:17:23  <Eddi|zuHause> good beers are either local or from cz.
15:17:39  <supermop> such a german
15:17:58  <Eddi|zuHause> there are also bad local beers, tbh ;)
15:18:18  <supermop> i'll ship you some good ales, or take you on a tour if you ever visit nyc
15:19:24  <supermop> offer stands for any of you germans here
15:19:35  <supermop> or the czechs
15:20:26  <Eddi|zuHause> if you pay for the flight ;)
15:20:32  <supermop> haha
15:20:54  <supermop> ok ill bring some in my luggage next time im in germany
15:21:44  <Eddi|zuHause> last time i was in NYC, i wasn't old enough to drink (by american standards), and beer was crazy expensive
15:22:17  <supermop> cheaper than in aus
15:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> like you got one bottle for the price that a whole crate costs here
15:23:18  <supermop> not going to convince Eddi|zuHause i guess
15:23:37  <supermop> how about planetmaker ? you want to come try american craft ales?
15:24:20  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no real point in "convincing" anybody :p
15:24:28  <supermop> or any of the niederlanders?
15:25:18  <supermop> not sure when we will next be in germany actually
15:25:24  <supermop> may be a few years off
15:25:59  <supermop> next europe trip will be oslo $$$$
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15:58:53  <Alberth> oddink
16:02:50  <frosch123> hai
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16:43:20  <Merlione> hello, I have a problem, and I wonder if someone can help me
16:43:43  <Alberth> ask a question and find out
16:44:12  <Merlione> I'm trying to turn on the autoreplace option, to autoreplace my vehicles
16:44:27  <Merlione> however, it doesn't show up in the settings list, not on expert, or advanced
16:44:40  <Merlione> my OpenTTD version is 1.5.1
16:44:47  <Alberth> sounds correct :)
16:44:51  <Merlione> I don't have anything installed
16:45:08  <Alberth> 'trains' from the menu bar
16:45:14  <Alberth> with all the trains that you have
16:45:33  <Alberth> at the bottom right is a drop-down -> replace vehicles
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16:45:41  <Merlione> yeah, but i want to autoreplace old ones as well
16:45:55  <Merlione> it doesn't do that
16:46:09  <Alberth> so what is autoreplace for you?
16:46:12  <Merlione> just replaces with a newer vehicle type if available
16:46:28  <Merlione> well, replacing a vehicle that is old with the same model?
16:46:33  <Alberth> yes that's the dropdown
16:46:40  <Alberth> that's autorenew
16:47:07  <Alberth> different model -> replace, same model -> renew
16:47:16  <Alberth> latter is in the settings
16:47:31  <Merlione> as i explained, the setting doesn't show up
16:47:57  <Merlione> ingame, when I manually set it to true in the .cfg file, it just turns back to false
16:48:21  <Alberth> you were talking replace then, which means something else :)  let me check
16:48:36  <Merlione> yeah sorry Im new to this game ^^
16:48:56  <Merlione> and I have set the settings to advanced or expert, and it still doesn't show
16:49:32  <Alberth> type "renew" in the search box
16:49:49  <Merlione> aaqah thanks!
16:50:19  <Merlione> I thought it would be at vehicles.....
16:50:22  <Alberth> with replace, it won't find anything, as that's not in the settings (due to hysteric reasons)
16:50:39  <Alberth> yeah, we have lots of history :)
16:51:00  <Alberth> feel free to submit a patch with an improvement
16:51:13  <Merlione> thats what a wiki told me, but probably that was a different version?
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16:51:50  <Alberth> it didn't move for a long time
16:52:10  <Alberth> what page was that?
16:53:13  <Alberth> also, maybe you looked for "replace" there as well instead of "renew" ?
16:53:17  <Merlione>
16:53:34  <Alberth> in that case, you'd be send in the wrong direction, just like happened here
16:54:56  <Alberth> oh, a different group
16:55:09  <Alberth> yes, stuff moved a bit, wiki needs updating
16:55:41  <Merlione> hehe,w ell, you, sir, saved my company from a small disaster ;)
16:56:09  <Alberth> ok, bill is in the mail, your company can spare a few dimes right? :)
16:56:29  <Alberth> you're welcome :)
16:57:42  <Merlione> haha! yes, our advisors are well paid
16:58:52  <Alberth> :)
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18:45:14  <V453000> okay, any blender humans around?
18:45:48  <V453000> I got a subsurf modifier on objects with linked poly data and I cant apply the modifier
18:45:52  <V453000> is ther any reasonable way to solve it?
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19:20:50  <fjb> Moin
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19:50:06  <Alberth> moin and goodbye :)
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19:55:32  <fjb> Nobody loves me...
20:05:12  <frosch123> i am sure dorpsgek does :p
20:05:20  <frosch123> night as well
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20:05:56  <Taede> ello
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20:17:43  <Xaroth|Work> o/ Taede
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23:05:29  <Wolf01> 'night
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