Log for #openttd on 11th September 2015:
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01:00:46  <Eddi|zuHause> forum backup, i haven't hit that for quite a while :p
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08:44:24  <planetmaker> it's always amusing again to see those e-mails like "help, I was banned from server XY. I did nothing wrong. Can you help me?"
08:46:32  <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean "again"?
08:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause> did you not get them for a while?
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08:58:38  <planetmaker> we get such e-mail on average every few weeks. Lately they seem to come more often
08:59:13  <planetmaker> and always those people seem incapable to apply some logic and trying to search for the webpage of the server
08:59:44  <planetmaker> and it's not like reddit and btpro and the other major servers have no websites
08:59:44  <V453000> did people get more retarded? :D
09:04:51  <planetmaker> maybe. But probably not
09:05:23  <planetmaker> As Einstein said: there's two things which are infinite: space and stupidity. And he isn't sure about the former ;)
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09:31:49  <Wolf01> hi hi
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12:25:34  <andythenorth> how do I persuade bundles server that latest FIRS release is 2.0.0 not 1.4.4?
12:25:50  <andythenorth>
12:26:17  <Eddi|zuHause> rename the branch into default
12:26:55  <andythenorth> thanks
12:27:01  <andythenorth> not sure that’s wise yet
12:27:10  <andythenorth> makes sense though
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12:32:32  * andythenorth attempts to musa
12:32:40  <planetmaker> andythenorth, LATEST is always the latest build. Literally as to what was pushed last
12:32:51  <planetmaker> andythenorth, if that didn't work it might be a bug there somewhere
12:33:13  <andythenorth> planetmaker: got time to investigate?
12:33:31  <andythenorth> or it could wait
12:33:49  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't see how that could work, as you could push multiple branches at the same time
12:33:51  <planetmaker> I'll have a look now
12:34:02  <andythenorth> planetmaker: there is a 2.0.0-alpha tag on the snakebite branch
12:34:11  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, you could. Then it might be undeterministic
12:34:43  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i find it way more likely that it just pulls the default branch and makes whatever comes out of there
12:34:49  <planetmaker> but I know that I didn't put there any fancy logic or so. Just the newest tagged build is made 'LATEST'
12:35:11  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, and no, I search for tags and those are built - whatever branch they are in
12:35:30  <planetmaker> the branch has no meaning for taged builds
12:35:39  <planetmaker> or rather no influence
12:36:22  <andythenorth> planetmaker: does it read the tag name in any way?
12:36:24  <planetmaker> as to the push builds: it builds the head of each branch being pushed. I think I changed it so that not only default branch works
12:36:32  <andythenorth> i.e. does it need x.y.z format?
12:36:50  <planetmaker> how the tag looks like *should* not matter
12:36:52  <andythenorth> bundles certainly builds on push correctly
12:37:13  <andythenorth>
12:37:39  <andythenorth> is correct
12:38:09  <planetmaker> hm, so it didn't build 2.0.0?
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12:38:55  <andythenorth> jenkins reported no changs
12:38:58  <andythenorth> no changes *
12:39:05  <planetmaker> oh, it tried. but it failed to build
12:39:15  <planetmaker> no changes... strange
12:39:38  <planetmaker> 18:52:23 abort: unknown revision '2.0.0'!
12:39:47  * andythenorth is afk for 10 mins
12:39:54  <planetmaker> so something went wrong :)
12:39:55  <andythenorth> but the history is all there to see :)
12:39:58  <andythenorth> biab
12:40:18  * planetmaker has an idea
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12:43:00  * planetmaker discards the idea
12:43:19  * Hiddenfunstuff dumpsterdives the idea
12:43:59  * planetmaker revisits the idea :P
12:44:27  <planetmaker> update failed... not jumping branches, it seems
12:44:36  <planetmaker> which is a failure in my build script
12:51:23  <planetmaker> hm...
12:55:35  <andythenorth> it jumps fine for regular commits :)
12:55:56  * andythenorth doesn’t know how hg tags are implemented, but aren’t they just pointers to a hash?
12:55:58  <planetmaker> andythenorth, FYI: it seems that it's a problem with the (ancient) mercurial version on the server. It fails to update to tags with hyphen (-). The same thing works locally with my more modern mercurial
12:56:04  <planetmaker> they are
12:56:10  <andythenorth> oh it’s that mercurial bug
12:56:14  <andythenorth> I’m sure you found that before :)
12:56:17  <planetmaker> I *think* so
12:56:34  <planetmaker> well, the 2.2.2 on the server is rather ancient. I don't use that for a very long time :D
12:57:05  <planetmaker> current is 3.5.1. And there's one minor version bump every 3 months. Go figure how old it is :D
12:57:32  <planetmaker> ok, June 2012
12:57:41  <dlhero> that's old for software these days
12:57:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that's "only" 3 years :p
12:58:07  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I guess I'll update mercurial on jenkins server soonish to fix this issue
12:58:25  <planetmaker> dlhero, for a server that's not necessarily 'old'
12:58:49  <planetmaker> it's what shipped with the distro which runs it. But that might need updating somewhen, too :P
12:59:13  <planetmaker> debian 7.8...
12:59:42  <andythenorth> never update servers :P
12:59:46  <andythenorth> standing rule
12:59:50  <planetmaker> :) Only when needed
12:59:53  <andythenorth> wait for it to die, then migrate all services to a new one
12:59:54  <planetmaker> it's enough work that way
12:59:58  <planetmaker> :)
13:00:02  <planetmaker> it's VMs
13:00:08  <planetmaker> so... they hopefully never die :P
13:00:24  <planetmaker> or would work the same on new machine ;)
13:00:37  <dlhero> planetmaker: I dont' disagree but I consider git/hg crucial services
13:00:46  <dlhero> prefer to have the latest versions/fixes blabla
13:00:46  <Eddi|zuHause> "doesn't work with - in the name" is as good as "dead"
13:01:07  <dlhero> occasionally skimming through the Changlog as well
13:02:36  <Eddi|zuHause> really, you should have a regular update schedule. the rarer an update gets, the more likely it won't work
13:03:15  <Eddi|zuHause> (remember to have backups)
13:03:37  <planetmaker> we do
13:04:00  <andythenorth> next problem: how do I musa? :P
13:04:04  <andythenorth> I wrote an ini file
13:04:10  <andythenorth> but how do I upload the tar?
13:04:20  <andythenorth> the forum thread says only grfs
13:06:43  <planetmaker> musa asks you for all files (grf, doc, changelog, license). It doesn't handle a complete tar
13:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause> who thought that was a good idea?
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13:16:55  <andythenorth> “error: you are not listed as author for this content"
13:17:17  <andythenorth> I have ‘andythenorth’ in the .ini file
13:17:32  <andythenorth> I don’t know who the authors are for FIRS
13:17:51  <planetmaker> andythenorth, you need to be listed as author in bananas
13:17:57  <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i never actually used musa, but when i last looked at it, it seemed somewhat poorly documented and half-assed. like a proof of concept prototype that somebody said "ah well, just ship it"
13:18:05  <andythenorth> there’s no way to know who the authors are in bananas

13:18:09  <andythenorth> I don’t have mySQL access
13:18:10  <planetmaker> i.e. the user who uploads FIRS? was it you or openttdcoop?
13:18:15  <andythenorth> openttdcoop
13:18:22  <planetmaker> then that's the user you need to list there, too
13:18:25  <andythenorth> ah ok
13:18:33  <planetmaker> same credentials. You can only use it to add additional ones
13:18:40  <planetmaker> and then next time you can upload as andy
13:19:37  <andythenorth> interesting
13:19:44  <andythenorth> license.txt is unpackageable
13:20:04  <planetmaker> yes, unless you select 'custom'. But as you use a default license, no need. They're stored in bananas
13:20:30  <andythenorth> ok
13:20:36  <andythenorth> eh, it’s gone and done
13:20:58  <andythenorth> 2.0.0-alpha on bananaramas
13:21:02  <planetmaker> :)
13:21:16  <andythenorth> is bananas web UI considered dead?
13:21:26  <andythenorth> or just limping?
13:22:15  <planetmaker> limping. And imho in need of improvement :)
13:22:34  <planetmaker> i.e. adding new additional authors only works via musa. As does uploading big content
13:22:50  <planetmaker> but it should return to allowing 'normal' uploads and edits to the entry
13:23:15  <andythenorth> has anyone read the logs?
13:23:22  <planetmaker> And tbh, it is being looked into... but it's tricky as the logs are rather inconclusive as to the reasons of the errors
13:23:25  <andythenorth> ‘exception’ is not very detailed :)
13:23:30  <planetmaker> yeah. Exactly
13:24:02  <planetmaker> but the logs are not really more detailed from what I understood (haven#t looked myself). Ancient software sucks sometimes ;)
13:24:28  <planetmaker> gotta leave for a bit
13:29:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm going back to my hanseatic republic of germany
13:33:08  * andythenorth ships FIRS
13:33:12  <andythenorth> done and done
13:33:17  <andythenorth> until the bug reports arrive :P
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15:14:47  <andythenorth> so eh
15:14:52  <andythenorth> if I’ve released an alpha
15:14:59  <andythenorth> e.g. 2.0.0-alpha
15:15:05  <andythenorth> and then I release a trivial bug fix :P
15:15:09  <andythenorth> what version is that o_O
15:16:04  <Alberth> 2.0.0-alpha-1   ?  :)
15:16:11  <andythenorth> ok
15:17:23  <Alberth> 2.0.1-alpha  is also an option perhaps
15:18:03  <andythenorth> nah, that implies the 2.0.0 release happened :)
15:18:12  <andythenorth> if it was RC I would have done RC1, RC2 etc
15:18:19  <andythenorth> but I didn’t think about more alphas :P
15:18:28  <Alberth> alpha2  ;)
15:18:59  <Alberth> or make it beta :p
15:19:25  <Alberth> gamma, delta, epsilon ...
15:20:42  <planetmaker> 2.0.0-beta?
15:20:50  <planetmaker> ah, I'm slow
15:21:03  <Alberth> lazy friday afternoon :)
15:21:24  <planetmaker> not really, preparing food for tomorrow's picknick :D
15:21:54  <Alberth> sounds great already :)
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15:25:42  * Sylf is still waiting for version omega
15:26:56  * andythenorth considers scripting the musa upload :P
15:27:03  <andythenorth> over-engineering, probably :P
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15:27:56  <Alberth> andythenorth:  copy-paste the BB one in the makefile?
15:28:17  <andythenorth> is there ‘make release’ or so
15:28:22  * andythenorth will look later :)
15:30:10  <planetmaker> andythenorth, scripting the musa upload is not really difficult; I actually considered it for devzone... wonder whether it's worthwhile or whether it results in much crap being uploaded :P
15:30:29  <andythenorth> mostly I’d just template the tag :P
15:30:36  <andythenorth> the rest is fine
15:30:39  <planetmaker> how can you template a tag?
15:30:46  <planetmaker> or what do you mean with that?
15:30:55  <andythenorth> text substituion in the .ini file
15:31:12  <andythenorth> pass the tag as an arg, or read it from hg or so
15:31:40  <andythenorth> I only release occasionally, more work to script and document than do it manually :P
15:34:08  <planetmaker> how's that different than what the Makefile and CF do?
15:34:36  <planetmaker> the Makefile writes the version to the grf. And the CF reads the tag information and publishes accordingly as well
15:34:57  <andythenorth> I would likely do it with the Makefile
15:35:05  <andythenorth> or is that unwise?
15:35:11  <planetmaker> the tag can be read from the info. And the commit hook actually detects them being present and triggers the builds accordingly
15:35:16  <planetmaker> but do what?
15:35:30  <andythenorth> edit the .ini file, run the musa command
15:35:36  <andythenorth> I dunno, seem over-engineered tbh
15:35:41  <planetmaker> oh, you mean editing musa.ini?
15:35:46  <andythenorth> yes
15:36:08  <planetmaker> there's something like that somewhere... I forgot which repo. Frosch made that :P busybee?
15:36:13  <andythenorth> yes
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15:37:17  <planetmaker> actually I've been thinking of making it a .devzone configuration: automatic upload using musa
15:37:28  <planetmaker> I guess you would be a customer to that?
15:37:32  <andythenorth> yes
15:37:35  <planetmaker> only for releases, of course
15:37:40  <andythenorth> push tag, everything happens automatically
15:37:41  <planetmaker> i.e.tags
15:37:43  <planetmaker> yup
15:37:52  <andythenorth> it’s all on the coop account anyway
15:37:59  <andythenorth> (my grfs)
15:38:41  <planetmaker> well, one would probably need to upload the first iteration manually in order to allow updates by the openttdcoop account. But that's done for most of your grfs anyway
15:38:58  <andythenorth> yes
15:38:58  <planetmaker> well, I shall have a look
15:39:07  <andythenorth> :)
15:46:33  <Alberth> next step, automagic sprite creator :)
15:46:57  <planetmaker> andythenorth, what's the bug which alluke tries to report? (FIRS thread)
15:47:18  <planetmaker> Alberth, ask Zeph. He has something like that... procedural sprite generator ;)
15:47:29  <planetmaker> iirc for houses, maybe for other stuff, too
15:47:47  <andythenorth> ha he has a pathological number of scrap yars
15:47:49  <andythenorth> yards *
15:48:17  <planetmaker> happens in a run-down economy :P
15:48:33  <andythenorth> dunno why that is
15:48:36  <planetmaker> and tbh, from the screenies I can't tell whether those are user-placed
15:48:39  <andythenorth> but that’s what betas are for
15:48:44  <andythenorth> ask him :)
15:48:52  <planetmaker> nah. I'm invited for dinner now :P
15:49:07  <planetmaker> hm.... well, ok. Just because it's fun :)
15:52:36  <andythenorth> he hasn’t specified which economy?
15:52:40  <Alberth> yeah, but that's Zeph himself :p
15:53:00  <Alberth> looks temperate-ish
15:53:05  <andythenorth> tells nothing :)
15:53:18  <Alberth> oh, firs economies
15:53:32  <andythenorth> :)
15:53:46  <Alberth> random guess, default?
15:54:21  <andythenorth> probly
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16:01:16  <Alberth> hmm, perhaps very early or so?
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16:07:06  <Alberth> temperate basic  1900  gives me a town with 3 scrap yards
16:07:13  <andythenorth> interesting
16:07:32  <andythenorth> might just be the value of the probability property
16:09:57  <Alberth> sounds likely
16:13:20  <Alberth> don't get more than 3 though
16:14:46  <Alberth> I wonder whether he plays with some patched version, his filenames "18.36.03" looks like a real-time clock
16:15:45  <Alberth> hmm, maybe just the time stamp of the screenshot
16:16:25  <andythenorth> I can’t replicate
16:16:34  <andythenorth> I tried industries ‘high’ and towns ‘very low'
16:16:39  <andythenorth> on Temperate Basic
16:17:11  <Alberth> yeah, not in the degree that he shows
16:29:51  <andythenorth> I can’t replicate the pink either :P
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16:50:20  <Alberth> me neither
16:52:29  <Alberth> the only explanation is that he didn't update the newgrf settings before generating a new map, imho
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17:21:58  <Valle> Good evening. Is there anyone using the JGR Patchpack 0.4.1 in multiplayer in here?
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17:28:03  <Alberth> you may also want to try #tycoon?
17:28:26  <Alberth> many users here don't actually play the game :)
17:32:41  <Valle> Roger, going to try that channel. Having everyone in here play while logged into the chat would be a bit mad. ;-)
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18:14:51  <andythenorth> quak
18:15:33  <andythenorth> this
18:15:36  <andythenorth> happens for me sometimes
18:16:02  <andythenorth> I ignore it because I assume it’s due to me changing grfs underneath a running OpenTTD
18:19:44  <frosch123> hmm, there is no firs.nml on bunldes
18:21:22  <frosch123> 321 changesets, 13 files updated :p
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18:35:09  <frosch123> andythenorth: did you release the beta on the same day as the broken alpha?
18:35:25  <andythenorth> I released -alpha then -alpha-1
18:35:31  <andythenorth> grf name same?
18:35:43  <frosch123> newgrf version is "number of days since 2000", so only changes once per day
18:36:02  <frosch123> if the broken and fixed are committed on the same date, their version numbers will be equal
18:36:07  <frosch123> and ottd cannot tell which is newer
18:36:10  <andythenorth> yup
18:36:11  <andythenorth> ok
18:41:35  <andythenorth> @seen alluke
18:41:36  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: alluke was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 3 hours, 15 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <alluke> theres the report
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19:26:15  <andythenorth> hmm
19:26:26  <andythenorth> now what? :P
19:27:30  <Xaroth|Work> watch a random youtube vid, then, once it's done, click one of the suggested videos from the list
19:27:41  <Xaroth|Work> see how long you last until you get to the really weird stuff
19:28:33  <frosch123> or try the reverse
19:28:44  <frosch123> start at "i like trains", and try to get somewhere sane
19:29:08  <andythenorth> I did the YT already
19:29:13  <andythenorth> as much as I can be arsed
19:29:19  <andythenorth> daily goal achieved :P
19:29:41  <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: i usually try that after i found the weird stuff
19:30:04  <Wolf01> andythenorth, i have another strange vehicle for you:
19:32:39  <andythenorth> yup
19:32:46  <andythenorth> was going to include those in HEQS
19:32:50  <andythenorth> but eh, didn’t happen :)
19:32:56  <andythenorth> needs roadtypes :P
19:33:15  <Wolf01> heh
19:35:06  <andythenorth> they are pretty cool
19:35:21  <andythenorth> I have photos of them with long long trains
19:39:44  <andythenorth> eh, this is mislabelled, it’s a bulldozer, not a lombard
19:39:46  <andythenorth>
19:39:54  <andythenorth> impressive though
19:45:27  <andythenorth> oh Steam
19:45:37  <andythenorth> auto-updating 1.3GB
19:45:41  <andythenorth> what larks
19:46:12  <andythenorth> in the old days, I could just play the game
19:46:19  <Wolf01> eh
19:46:21  <andythenorth> now
19:46:32  <andythenorth> ‘the game’ = Euro Truck Simulator :P
19:46:33  <Wolf01> but it's for your good
19:46:57  <andythenorth> :P
19:47:01  <andythenorth> their UI sucks
19:47:40  <Wolf01> i don't know if continue to play with train fever or just leave it there waiting for another update which makes rail crossings possible
19:48:09  * andythenorth might play OpenTTD
19:49:59  <Wolf01> i would play ottd too, but i don't want to set a good combination of grfs.. it takes hours
19:50:45  <andythenorth> is a problem
19:50:56  <andythenorth> shareable preset?
19:51:01  <andythenorth> don’t use grfs?
19:51:16  <Wolf01> yes, i always forget to put in something, like some weird station set or the waypoints or the trams...
19:51:29  <andythenorth> FIRS, Iron Horse, Termite, Squid, AV9, Road Hog, TAI, OpenGFX+ Airports
19:51:31  <andythenorth> done
19:51:48  <andythenorth> eh, forgot CHIPS
19:52:00  <Wolf01> see
19:52:09  <ST2> and to mention: FIRS 2.0.0 alpha1
19:52:10  <ST2> xD
19:52:14  <andythenorth> I should just put them all in andythenorth.grf
19:52:19  <andythenorth> and pikka can make pikka.grf
19:52:41  <andythenorth> choose an economy, all industries, cargos and vehicles match
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20:15:21  <Supercheese> one grf to rule them all
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20:28:06  <alluke> andu i heard you've been looking for me?
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20:45:44  <andythenorth> alluke: which ottd version is that FIRS screenshot from?
20:49:43  <alluke> 1.5.2
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20:51:51  <andythenorth> which FIRS economy? o_O
20:52:00  <andythenorth> I can’t replicate it
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20:52:56  <alluke> full
20:53:10  <alluke> i noticed that i had set amount of cities to 3
20:53:16  <alluke> that might have triggered it
20:55:10  <Sylf> 3 cities on the whole map?
20:55:21  <alluke> yeah xD
20:55:24  <Sylf> how big is the map?
20:55:33  <alluke> 1024x1024
20:56:43  <andythenorth> 3
20:56:49  * andythenorth tests
20:58:01  <andythenorth> replicated
20:58:20  <andythenorth> yeah, I have nothing for that
21:02:38  <andythenorth> bed time
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22:01:55  <Eddi|zuHause> is anyone ever annoyed that you cannot drive away a fly from the screen with your mouse?
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