Log for #openttd on 17th September 2015:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:59:55  *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd
01:02:26  *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:03:14  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
01:15:04  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
01:20:37  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:31:59  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
01:38:12  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:50:32  *** sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
02:55:51  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
03:56:31  *** Pikka [] has joined #openttd
04:52:35  *** liq3 [] has quit []
04:56:02  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit []
04:56:16  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
04:56:32  *** Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:12:47  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
05:28:39  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
05:48:42  <Flygon> Looking at it
05:48:49  <Flygon> Most of the OpenTTD Wiki junctions
05:48:55  <Flygon> Are in zero way built for realistic acceleration x.x
06:10:02  *** FLHerne_ [] has joined #openttd
06:10:13  *** FLHerne_ [] has quit []
06:10:54  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:20:21  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:45:06  *** Arveen [] has joined #openttd
07:06:33  *** sim-al2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:15:12  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
07:21:43  *** shirish [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
07:35:51  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
07:35:54  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
07:36:22  *** Arveen [] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 -]
07:42:12  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:12:45  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
08:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause> most of the wiki junctions i would never ever build
08:14:11  <V453000> nobody with brain would
08:14:30  <V453000> regardless if realistic or efficient brain
08:15:29  <Flygon> Then WHY are they on the Wiki?
08:15:35  <Flygon> They're just so...
08:15:38  <Flygon> Why?
08:15:45  <Flygon> As in, that's the word, to describe them
08:15:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: it's a wiki, fix it?
08:15:54  <Flygon> Not me repeating "Why are they on the Wiki"
08:16:01  <Flygon> Mate, I'm... trust me
08:16:11  <Flygon> My junctions go for aesthetic over practicality
08:16:17  <Flygon> I aim to make them look like IRL ones
08:16:18  <Flygon> Usually.
08:16:25  <Flygon> The 'enhanced' cloverleaf is an exemptoon
08:17:16  <Flygon> There is, in theory, more efficient 'seamless' junctions for the same purpose
08:17:23  <Flygon> But they look far uglier
08:17:44  <Flygon> And would have one minor downside...
08:18:01  <Flygon> Less capacity, in edge circumstances
08:22:15  *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!]
08:39:51  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:45:15  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
09:17:36  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
09:17:50  <Wolf01> moin
09:23:06  *** __ln__ [~lauri@2001:2003:50de:2a46:250:43ff:fe01:4a71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:32:59  *** snorre [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:33:11  *** snorre [] has joined #openttd
09:48:28  *** glevans2 [~glevans2@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
09:56:10  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
10:37:04  *** APTX [] has joined #openttd
10:43:50  *** KrunchyAl [~quassel@] has quit [Quit: - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
11:26:29  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
11:26:44  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit []
11:27:45  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
11:27:57  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit []
11:32:54  *** Supercheese [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:33:29  *** Supercheese [] has joined #openttd
11:37:04  *** DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:07:38  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has joined #openttd
12:07:40  <andythenorth> o/
12:08:02  <Wolf01> \o
12:10:05  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
12:38:04  <Pikka> o?
12:38:31  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
12:39:40  <andythenorth> yes
12:39:45  <peter1138> ____oOOo__\\ O ^ O ///__oOOo____
12:40:01  <andythenorth> showing off
12:47:44  <V453000> .
12:52:59  <Pikka> ,
13:03:12  <Wolf01> ;
13:06:44  *** Pikka [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:12:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r27399 trunk/ (2015-09-17 15:12:21 +0200 )
13:12:29  <DorpsGek> -Fix: [Makefile] game script directory and compat*.nut were never installed on *nix
13:12:30  *** Hiddenfunstuff [] has joined #openttd
13:23:00  *** jefferyw [] has joined #openttd
13:23:39  <jefferyw> help I am crashing with sound issues
13:23:40  <jefferyw>
13:23:54  <jefferyw> gdb backtrace included
13:25:42  <jefferyw> oh openttd in the repos is still 1.3.3
13:30:58  <FLHerne> Aargh, that's impressively ancient
13:31:40  <jefferyw> is this problem also ancient?
13:36:35  <jefferyw>
13:36:54  <jefferyw> I spot in this repo 1.5.1
13:37:06  <jefferyw> why is it not included in 14.04
13:37:31  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has left #openttd []
13:37:43  <jefferyw> sorted it would be
13:37:44  <jefferyw>;O=D
13:53:17  <jefferyw> well when a dev gets this message please push openttd 1.5.1 into the ubuntu universe repo and allow install on 14.04 trusty
13:53:50  <jefferyw> and take a look at my backtrace from gdb
13:54:01  <jefferyw>
13:54:22  *** jefferyw [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:56:17  <planetmaker> jefferyw ... hm... we can't do anything about that. Nor is the backtrace really that helpful...
13:56:26  <planetmaker> everything stripped
13:56:49  <planetmaker> and of course he left :S
13:57:15  <wito> Ugh.
13:57:37  <wito> I'm using FISH and ECS, and I cannot for the -life- of me stabilize the rating for an oilrig at above 72 %
13:58:32  <wito> And I cannot figure out what the problem is.
13:59:05  <wito> I have 6 ships, timetabled so they arrive 20 days apart, staying for 40 days to load.
13:59:11  <wito> They're slow, but still, come on!
13:59:14  <planetmaker> do the ECS docs say anything?
14:00:42  <wito> Does ECS affect rating?
14:04:00  <planetmaker> dunno. It can control it
14:04:30  <planetmaker> Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.
14:13:44  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o]
14:14:21  <wito> Well, I've managed to turn my transport network all higgledy-piggledy anyway, so will probably start anew.
14:14:33  <wito> Avoiding oil rigs in favor of oil fields
14:20:51  *** __ln__ [~lauri@2001:2003:50de:2a46:250:43ff:fe01:4a71] has joined #openttd
14:29:42  *** sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
15:03:03  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
15:03:30  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
15:11:53  *** Wormnest [] has joined #openttd
15:24:57  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:29:43  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
15:35:22  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
16:09:39  *** NGC3982 [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:14:36  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
16:21:15  *** liq3 [] has joined #openttd
16:33:09  *** Arveen [] has joined #openttd
16:36:41  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
16:38:08  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
16:38:11  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
16:41:24  *** hawking [] has joined #openttd
16:42:01  <frosch123> sometimes i have no words for what is happening in the chat log
16:42:04  *** hawking is now known as Guest2023
16:43:07  *** Guest2023 is now known as NGC3982
16:48:30  <planetmaker> o/
16:48:36  <planetmaker> what leaves you so speechless, frosch123 ? :)
16:49:19  <frosch123> the guy running openttd in a debugger, then manually interrupting the process, getting the backtrace at whatever point ottd was running, and then reporting it as a crash backtrace
16:50:12  <planetmaker> ah :)
16:50:25  <frosch123> he probably heard that you need backtraces for crash reports, and googled how to create a backtrace, but not understanding that there is a relation between crash and backtrace :p
16:51:43  <planetmaker> there sure is :P
16:52:21  <frosch123> it's like replacing the fuse in your house, when the light of your car doesn't work
16:52:43  *** sim-al2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:53:00  <planetmaker> :)
16:53:17  <planetmaker> might work for a Tesla in need of a re-charge :P
16:53:47  <frosch123> i thought you can charge them for free when you do some extra detour, so it counts as long distance travel
16:57:08  <planetmaker> dunno.. I never drove one nor am I currently in the position to afford one :)
16:57:48  <frosch123> you cannot afford to buy one or you cannot afford to steal one? :p
17:03:45  <wito> "This timetable will take 1,408 days to complete"
17:04:19  <frosch123> does it include the construction of the engine?
17:05:18  <frosch123> or the schooling of the driver?
17:05:56  <wito> Nope. Just a 677 day leg.
17:06:17  <wito> But it's at 60 km/h, so a few years down the road it'll improve.
17:07:29  <frosch123> @calc 1408*24*60 / 1000
17:07:29  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2027.52
17:10:23  <wito> So, um...
17:10:31  <wito> One 20th of the way around the earth.
17:10:33  <wito> None too shabby.
17:10:36  <frosch123> well, it's about 7 times to the moon, not sure whether that is enough to reach mars
17:11:05  <frosch123> wito: did you miss the "/ 1000"
17:11:20  <wito> Oh, right.
17:11:36  <wito> God damned unit-less calculator!
17:11:43  * wito shakes his fist in the air.
17:12:51  <wito> 6.8 light seconds.
17:13:01  <wito> That's far.
17:14:58  <wito> But "only" about a hundreth of the mean distance between Earth and Mars.
17:26:13  <planetmaker> frosch123, either would be the best choice now :P
17:26:46  <Rubidium> wito: just imagine how big a 4096x4096 map would be with those calculations ;)
17:27:55  <wito> Well, my 677 day thing is about 1600 tiles.
17:28:16  <planetmaker> as to distances... 7 times the moon is tiny compared to earth-mars distance :)
17:28:22  <wito> So let's say 1000 days for 2048 tiles, 2000 for the full 4096
17:28:31  <planetmaker> 400.000 vs.
17:28:43  <planetmaker> well. add *7 on the left hand side
17:29:05  <frosch123> yeah, i stopped when i did not know how far it is to the mars, but i probably should have guessed that it is more than 7 times :p
17:29:23  <wito> o.O
17:29:25  <planetmaker> the distance varies. And... a straight line is not quickest anyway :)
17:29:34  <wito> According to these calculations.
17:29:47  <planetmaker> quickest possible way is around 4...5 months travel
17:29:49  <wito> The area of a 4096**2 map is...
17:29:49  <planetmaker> one-way
17:30:04  <wito> One and a half times the surface area of the sun.
17:30:07  <wito> o.O
17:30:14  <planetmaker> of the *sun*?
17:30:33  <wito> Of the **sun**.
17:31:02  <Rubidium> well, it's fairly simple... a tile is 668x668 km
17:31:09  <planetmaker> :)
17:31:41  <planetmaker> 1000 tiles thus are the radius of the sun :)
17:31:50  <wito> Oh, my math is off.
17:32:00  <wito> It's only 1.2 times the surface area of the sun.
17:32:30  <Rubidium>*+668km+*+4096*4096
17:33:14  <wito> I prefer (668 km * 4096) ** 2, but whatever floats your boat. :)
17:34:11  <Rubidium> likewise, a 4096 tile map is 7 times the distance to the moon ;)
17:34:18  <Rubidium> (yay wolframalpha)
17:35:42  *** shirish [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:36:31  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
17:36:56  <Rubidium> but yes, the standard reply to people asking for 8192x8192 maps is asking whether they really need five times the surface area of the sun
17:39:47  *** Wormnest [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:40:07  <wito> The scale is kind of messed up, tho'. :P
17:41:31  <wito> Because the roads are _clearly_ not 668 km wide. P:
17:42:01  <Taede> not to mention towns the size of countries
17:42:16  <wito> Towns the size of _Earth_
17:42:21  <wito> city blocks the size of countries.
17:43:04  <frosch123> how much does it slow the rotation of the earth, if you cover the surface with buildings that tall? :p
17:43:49  <Taede> on earth, it would be problematic
17:43:53  <Taede> dyson sphere would cope
17:44:27  <wito> Well, at a rough estimate the taller end of buildings in OpenTTD is what, 4 or 5 tiles wide?
17:44:45  <wito> So, 3 to 4 Mm.
17:46:01  <frosch123> sounds like you need to dig up a lot of lava to build them :p
17:46:46  <wito> Yeah.
17:47:08  <wito> I'm guessing that the effect would be roughly similar in magnitude to the slowing effect of the moon.
17:51:53  <frosch123> really? i would guess it halfes the speed
17:52:20  <frosch123> i think we are talking about moving half the mass of the earth to twice the distance from center
17:53:36  <wito> What kind of density are you working with?
17:54:40  <frosch123> maybe 1?
17:54:56  <frosch123> i am not sure how much a m³ of house weights :p
17:55:20  <wito> I think 1 is a reasonable estimate.
17:55:25  <wito> Somewhere between 1 and maybe 3?
17:55:39  <frosch123> there is a lot of air in a house :)
17:55:51  <frosch123> though maybe not in the upper levels :p
17:55:52  <wito> Although if it's built like some kind of as ship, it'd have to be less than 1.
17:56:17  <wito> But let's say 1 exactly.
17:56:41  <frosch123> also assuming the houses touches on the ground, there will be some distance between houses at the top :p
17:57:00  <wito> That would make it a lot like freezing the Earth's oceans and building a skyscraper from teh ice.
17:57:24  <wito> In terms of how much it is.
17:58:49  <frosch123> well, but 3000 km thick
17:59:06  <frosch123> the ocean is like 20 km in the deepest spot :p
17:59:08  <wito> 3000 km tall, 668 * 668 km at the base.
17:59:30  <wito> It's one 4000th of the mass of the earth.
18:03:37  <wito> But a whole town would -seriously- slow down the earth.
18:07:36  *** NGC3982 [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:10:18  <wito> Or, well, not really.
18:10:35  <wito> It'd pretty rapidly collapse in on itself.
18:11:28  <frosch123> well, you also reduce gravity, don't you?
18:13:53  <wito> Not enough.
18:14:40  <wito> And it's all the same mass, so the total gravitational attraction stays the same.
18:14:56  <wito> The Earth -really- wants to be round.
18:16:50  <planetmaker> you need 70.000 km high skyscraper with sufficient (inner) strength ;)
18:17:06  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
18:17:08  <andythenorth> o/
18:17:20  <planetmaker> geo-stationary orbit is at 35.000km. Then it carries its own weight. But the tension...
18:17:26  <planetmaker> \o
18:18:24  <planetmaker> though... that only works with a mostly mass-less 'rope' instead of a thing with signifiant fraction of the Earth's mass
18:18:32  <planetmaker> *significant
18:20:01  <andythenorth> ah fuck it, FIRS is borked anyway for stable players
18:20:08  <andythenorth> I might as well merge the v2 branch to default
18:20:13  <andythenorth> then at least I can get translations
18:22:29  <andythenorth> are branch merges scary on hg
18:22:32  <andythenorth> let’s find out :P
18:22:39  <andythenorth> planetmaker: repo has backups, right? :P
18:23:58  <planetmaker> we do have some backups, yes... What you want to do?
18:24:11  <andythenorth> I am going to merge the ‘snakebite’ branch of FIRS into ‘default'
18:24:14  <andythenorth> should be clean, but eh
18:24:26  <andythenorth> I tend to break hg because I use it as though it’s git
18:24:36  <andythenorth> I used to break it because I used it like svn :P
18:24:42  <andythenorth> potato / potato
18:24:50  <planetmaker> well. you do it locally first anyway. So if it breaks, it breaks on your machine. Then simply clone anew
18:25:34  <andythenorth> seems to have worked
18:25:39  <planetmaker> though I don't see what can break in a merge except you getting results you don't want due to making the merge the wrong way or so :)
18:25:46  <andythenorth> now eints will pick it up
18:25:49  <planetmaker> or using the wrong merge algo :)
18:25:54  <andythenorth> fat fingers
18:26:02  <andythenorth> or error between keyboard and chair :P
18:26:07  <andythenorth> it’s ok it went fine
18:26:16  <andythenorth> I have been merging default into snakebite regularly
18:26:19  *** hawking [] has joined #openttd
18:26:33  *** hawking is now known as NGC3982
18:26:48  <peter1138> i figured it would be useful to have a changelog in my repo
18:26:49  <andythenorth> I am sad that FIRS is currently non-available on bananas for most players, but eh
18:26:56  <andythenorth> you have a repo? :o
18:27:17  <peter1138> except it turns out it's a major pain, because you end up with conflicts on any merge purely because of the changelog entries...
18:28:01  <andythenorth> try having language files around
18:28:08  <andythenorth> with an extraction date baked into the file :(
18:28:16  <andythenorth> meh to that
18:28:39  <peter1138> mmm baked
18:28:51  <peter1138> yeah, similar pointless thing :)
18:29:00  <andythenorth> changelog goes in the milestone branch, not the feature branch :P
18:29:03  <andythenorth> problem solved
18:29:12  <andythenorth> or go big, put it straight into master
18:30:20  <wito> Or build a changelog from commit messages at some time down the road.
18:31:32  <peter1138> wito, yeah basically that
18:32:34  <andythenorth> who made eints UI :P
18:32:40  <andythenorth> it’s confusing
18:32:52  <andythenorth> and also, non-retina icons :(
18:32:55  <andythenorth> ugh
18:33:00  <peter1138> heh
18:33:04  <peter1138> font-awesome!
18:33:16  <peter1138> someone get me a roland juno-ds
18:40:13  <andythenorth> the problem with eints
18:40:18  <andythenorth> is that the developers got bored
18:40:22  <andythenorth> and moved on to other things
18:40:29  <andythenorth> standard :P
18:41:50  *** sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
18:43:48  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> yeah, i stopped when i did not know how far it is to the mars, but i probably should have guessed that it is more than 7 times :p <-- i'd estimate something in the order of 0,5 to 1,5 AU, depending on positions
18:45:35  <Eddi|zuHause> or the other estimate is, assuming the distribution of the inner planets is fairly even, the radius of the orbits are 0,3; 0,6; 1; 1,3
18:46:22  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, 0.5 and 2.5 ;)
18:46:34  <Eddi|zuHause> err, of course
18:46:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i do think i meant to write that
18:47:07  <Eddi|zuHause> but something interfered inbetween my thought and my writing
18:49:09  <NGC3982> I'm so tired.
18:50:14  <andythenorth> I find it’s my thoughts that interfere with my writing :(
18:52:44  <wito> Interplanetary distance is unimaginably large.
18:53:20  <andythenorth> it is? o_O
18:53:30  <Eddi|zuHause> there are still different levels of unimaginable :p
18:53:35  <wito> True.
18:53:53  <wito> It's nowhere near as unimaginable as -interstellar- distance.
18:54:00  <andythenorth> I think it’s similar unimaginable to having your first child, newborn, and imagining them being 3 years old
18:54:06  <andythenorth> is my guess
18:54:33  <andythenorth> to travel that journey just takes time, but at the start you have no idea of the distance to cover
18:54:57  <andythenorth> translate distance to time, it’s easy
18:55:05  <andythenorth> try and imagine it as a visual measurement, impossible
18:58:45  <frosch123> what does the creator of font awesome think about font awesome?
18:59:03  <frosch123> i mean "today" :p
19:05:07  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> but yes, the standard reply to people asking for 8192x8192 maps is asking whether they really need five times the surface area of the sun <-- but people that want that usually also want daylength, which reduces this size again
19:05:27  <Rubidium> really?
19:05:59  <Rubidium> hmm, depending on your definition of daylength maybe ;)
19:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well, assuming vehicle movement stays by ticks, then the time a vehicle needs from one edge to the other (in days) shrinks
19:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause> so, also the distance between the edges shrinks
19:08:50  <Eddi|zuHause> so an 8192^2 map with daylength 32 has the same size as a 256^2 map with daylength 1
19:08:52  *** sim-al2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:09:31  <Eddi|zuHause> does that make any sense?
19:09:38  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: what size is a 4kx4k map at daylength factor 38000?
19:10:16  <wito> frosch123: Wales.
19:10:54  <frosch123> is "wales" the "42" answer to all geological things?
19:11:03  <frosch123> *geographical
19:11:10  <wito> Actually, my bad.
19:11:16  <wito> 8k**2 is Wales.
19:11:25  <wito> 4k**2 is Rhode Island.
19:11:47  <Eddi|zuHause> is "wales" the english equivalent of "saarland"?
19:11:50  <frosch123> @calc 668*4096 / 38900
19:11:50  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 70.3374807198
19:12:03  <frosch123> hmm, so 70 km only
19:12:25  <frosch123> i agree, 4kx4k maps are way too small if you want to play r-ish
19:12:31  <wito> And I think Eddi|zuHause has it.
19:12:41  <wito> Wales ≈ Saarland, that is.
19:13:21  *** Wormnest [] has joined #openttd
19:13:28  <wito> Geograph is measured in cricket pitches, Waleses and UKs.
19:13:42  <wito> Or something.
19:13:52  <frosch123> earlier you used suns
19:13:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it's frequently used when comparing sizes. like "a forest area 5 times the size of saarland is on fire"
19:14:58  <wito> "The map is 2 million times the size of wales" doesn't really gel. :P
19:15:11  <wito> Oh, I'm sorry, did I say 2 million?
19:15:17  <wito> I meant 2 hundred million.
19:16:18  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: only that fire would be a fourth the size of Wales or ten times the size of the province of Utrecht ;)
19:17:07  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: is berlin actually bigger than saarland?
19:17:19  <Eddi|zuHause> how would i know?
19:17:42  <frosch123> it isn't
19:17:48  <frosch123> saarland is 3 times as big
19:17:48  <Rubidium> 3 Berlins ~= 1 Saarland
19:18:08  <frosch123> saarland is even bigger than berlin, hamburg and bremen together :p
19:18:52  <Rubidium> only because Bremen is so small ;)
19:19:21  <__ln__> is saarland "the size of texas"?
19:19:34  <Eddi|zuHause> no, bavaria is the german texas
19:19:54  <Eddi|zuHause> (except that texas is like 5 times the size of germany)
19:20:34  <Rubidium> 10 times Bavaria would probably be a better match
19:21:13  <frosch123> wasn't there some forum thread that texas has more rail kilometers than the uk
19:21:24  <frosch123> which resulted in many insulted brittish people?
19:21:49  <Rubidium> Germany is only half the size of Texas
19:22:17  <Eddi|zuHause> 2, 5, ... what's the difference
19:22:26  <Rubidium> frosch123: and that with so much third rail in the UK and so little electrification in Texas!
19:23:22  <Rubidium> being good vs deficient ;)
19:23:31  <Rubidium> or at least for some German gradings
19:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not about the quantity, but about the quality. and we all know that britain is famous for its high quality rail system!
19:23:46  <Rubidium> wheras in the Netherlands either is a failing grade...
19:24:10  <frosch123> Rubidium: classes 11 and up use 1 to 15 points
19:24:19  <frosch123> at least when i was in school
19:24:39  <frosch123> on that scale both 2 and 5 are somewhat bad :)
19:24:54  <frosch123> though actually 5 is "enough"
19:25:04  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: even then, the german 5 is probably better than the dutch 5 :p
19:25:42  * Rubidium hopes maths teachers in Germany don't use a linear grading scale then
19:25:59  <Rubidium> as in: 30% right, you get a 5
19:26:04  <Eddi|zuHause> no
19:27:06  <frosch123> i was involved in an exam on statistics for engineers, which had an exponential dristribution in grades
19:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, the 15 points are the 5 grades split into 3 more, so 1=15/14/13, 2=12/11/10, etc. with 5=3/2/1 and 6=0
19:27:30  <frosch123> 1/2 failed the test, 1/4 got worst passing grade, 1/8 the second worst passing grade, ...
19:28:00  <Eddi|zuHause> 5 points is the minimum for "pass", which usually is 50%
19:29:32  <Rubidium> here grades go from 1 to 10, where a 6 is "pass" although grades are given/accounted behind the decimal and the "pass" is determined on the rounded so effectively a 5.5 is a passing grade
19:30:03  <frosch123> why do you have multiple grades for fail?
19:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause> teachers here typically have some leeway of rounding between .4 and .6
19:30:27  <Rubidium> depending on the subject and education level the amount you need to know to pass differs (which annoyed me somewhat)
19:30:57  <Eddi|zuHause> so in that range they can either give the lower or higher grade
19:31:18  <Rubidium> frosch123: because apparantly knowing 0% for 3 tests and then 100% for 1 is deemed worse than knowing 50% for 3 tests and 100% for 1 test
19:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause> teachers often give the lower grade on the half-year report, and the higher on the end-year report
19:33:18  <Rubidium> in any case... where I went to school for maths you got some points if you got things partially right and you needed 50% right for a passing grade, whereas you needed 80% right and misspelling a single word wrong in an answer gave you no points for that answer for some of the languages... (wonder why I was annoyed by that)
19:33:24  <Eddi|zuHause> also, if too many people fail a test, teachers can adjust the scale, so the average grade gets higher
19:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause> languages were a nightmare... you could write the most beautiful essay of all times, but if spelling is atrocious (you get a 6 in spelling quite easily), then the total grade can at best be a 4
19:36:06  <Eddi|zuHause> although, this was usually the other way around for me, very little spelling mistakes, but terrible content :p
19:41:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but, how did we get here from mars?
19:43:31  <Rubidium> some weird links my brain occasionally makes
19:46:23  *** Arveen [] has quit []
19:46:42  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
19:48:55  *** Hiddenfunstuff [] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC]
20:05:03  <andythenorth> how big is cat?
20:05:34  <frosch123> depends whether it is blue
20:06:25  <andythenorth> how big is blue cat?
20:06:42  <wito> I dunno. On this system cat is 47K
20:06:56  <frosch123> about the size of a one-family house
20:07:45  <frosch123> though it fits on the roof rack of an average car
20:07:48  <andythenorth> how big is space cat?
20:07:53  <frosch123> so, maybe not as big
20:08:15  <frosch123> andythenorth: noone knows, it's still expanding
20:10:40  <andythenorth> unimaginably large
20:15:38  *** Wormnest [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:16:04  *** Wormnest [] has joined #openttd
20:16:27  <Rubidium> arguably smaller than one cubic tile
20:18:52  <wito> The -Moon- is arguably smaller than cubic tile!
20:19:03  <wito> (No, it actually isn't. But you get my point.)
20:19:41  <andythenorth> izzy wizzy, let’s get busy
20:30:08  *** sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
20:31:47  <wito> Also.
20:31:54  <wito> Why -don't- we have daylength?
20:32:00  <andythenorth> because reasons
20:32:39  <andythenorth> a
20:32:39  <wito> Ah.
20:32:46  <wito> I didn't realize reasons.
20:32:47  <andythenorth> partly it’s just a terrible idea
20:32:50  <wito> I should haev guessed. P
20:33:45  <wito> Okay, see, "It's just a terrible idea" isn't any more informative than "because reasons".
20:34:39  <Rubidium> want to influence the length of a day? Just adjust the speed of your computer's clock
20:34:42  <planetmaker> partly because no-one came up with a good concept how to handle *all* the interfaces of time
20:34:58  <Rubidium> the easiest way, and it doesn't mess up the economy
20:35:29  <planetmaker> change tick length... hm :)
20:36:11  <andythenorth> plenty have tried
20:36:15  <andythenorth> none have succeeded :P
20:39:44  <frosch123> planetmaker: it would also make the game "harder" :p
20:41:03  *** jinks [] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
20:41:57  *** jinks [] has joined #openttd
20:48:39  <andythenorth> why do they need it again?
20:48:44  * andythenorth always forgets
20:52:19  <wito> Some poeple want longer games.
20:53:20  <andythenorth> max date is 5000000 or so
20:53:28  <andythenorth> how long do they need? :o
20:53:58  <frosch123> andythenorth: in "difficult" games you have to let the game run over night to accumulate enough money for the next train
20:54:11  <andythenorth> oh, like casual games on a tablet
20:54:20  <andythenorth> where you leave it overnight to ‘refuel'
20:54:23  <andythenorth> or you pay real money
20:54:51  <andythenorth> we should add that
20:55:56  <andythenorth> proceeds to be split proportionally between developers of all newgrfs used in game
20:56:04  <andythenorth> ratio to be: number of vehicles in newgrf
20:56:05  <andythenorth> :P
20:57:50  <frosch123> number of pixels :p
20:57:59  <frosch123> screentime per time
20:58:21  <andythenorth> I was thinking invert number of vehicles
20:58:24  <andythenorth> min 1
20:58:24  <planetmaker> g'night
20:58:30  <andythenorth> least vehicles gets most
20:58:32  <andythenorth> bye planetmaker
21:07:44  <andythenorth> also
21:07:45  *** andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
21:12:50  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
21:27:57  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
21:28:32  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
21:31:05  <wito> ...
21:31:08  <wito> also what?
21:31:16  <Wolf01> also quit
21:31:59  <wito> Ah.
21:32:14  <wito> Some of us have joins/parts muted. P:
21:39:52  *** jinks [] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
21:40:24  <peter1138> i boggle at amazon's deals on drinks
21:40:36  <peter1138> £24 for 6 tiny (330ml) bottles of beer... wtf?
21:40:58  *** jinks [] has joined #openttd
21:41:48  <wito> What kind of beer?
21:45:13  <peter1138> ale
21:45:31  <wito> Okay, see.
21:45:33  *** CompuDesktop [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:801d:c4c9:8c20:8386:26da] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:45:35  <peter1138> heh discworld ales 330ml * 6 £17.59
21:45:41  <NGC3982> That's not even Swedish level pricing.
21:45:41  <wito> There we go.
21:45:50  <peter1138> ... they're £1.20 from another site online
21:45:59  <peter1138> (per bottle)
21:46:48  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:46:54  <wito> 4 pounds per bottle?
21:46:59  <peter1138> yeah
21:47:04  <wito> Doesn't sound particularly bad to mee.
21:47:07  <peter1138> o_O
21:47:12  <wito> Of course, I live in Norway.
21:47:27  <peter1138> more than double what i normally pay for 500ml bottles
21:47:53  <wito> So I'd probably guess at a price around 5 to 8 pounds per bottle, depending on location.
21:50:56  <NGC3982> Most 33cl "non standard" beer range from 2.3GBP to infinity.
21:51:10  <NGC3982> At the Swedish System Company.
21:52:04  <NGC3982> I usually go for <4GBP beer (per 33cl). Really good tasty micro brewery stuff usually end up at the 4GBP mark.
21:54:00  <wito> Yeah, the Norwegian Wine Monopoly is a little more expensive, and bars more expensive than that.
21:54:42  <NGC3982> Sierra Nevada and Barney Flat <3
21:57:10  <wito> Don't drink and play driving games!
21:59:53  <peter1138> aww
22:02:03  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
22:02:06  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
22:04:20  <wito> Although I suppose the jury is out on whether it helps or hurts when you play Burnout Paradise. :P
22:15:38  <peter1138> that doesn't support wheels
22:15:46  <peter1138> utter shite
22:18:57  *** Wormnest [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:25:13  *** sim-al2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:28:39  <wito> Like, steering wheels?
22:32:47  <wito> I don't know that I'd like to play Burnout paradise with a steering wheel in any case.
22:33:46  <wito> Even the races have a lot of emergency break 175 degree turn type things.
22:33:54  <LordAro> burnout paradise isn't really the sort of game i'd use a steering wheel for
22:34:36  <wito> I know, right?
22:35:29  <wito> In fact, I'm pretty sure that if I, like, lived in the city as depicted, I'd be looking into getting a car with a joystick. :P
22:35:37  <LordAro> :D
22:35:52  <LordAro> i'm fairly sure if i lived in that city, i'd find a way to leave
22:35:59  <LordAro> despite the roads being a closed loop
22:36:03  <wito> Downtown is all 90 degree corners and 120 kph speed limits. o.O
22:36:18  <LordAro> wait, there are speed limits?
22:36:26  <LordAro> :p
22:36:50  <wito> I think the closed loop is a game abstraction.
22:37:00  <wito> And I think there are a few blocked off roads.
22:37:09  <LordAro> possibly
22:37:12  <LordAro> it's been a while
22:37:29  <wito> And I'm almost certain that the rail lines leave town, but ar eblocked off.
22:54:11  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
23:02:02  <wito> Ooh.
23:02:14  <wito> Travel time is down to 460 days.
23:02:21  <wito> Soon the trains will even be making a profit!
23:03:02  <wito> Well, a yearly profit.
23:04:52  <Flygon> #openttdproblems
23:06:38  <wito> I need to get it down to 350-ish
23:07:24  <wito> So 120 kph should do it.
23:12:24  <wito> Also, too late I realized that I forgot to add OpenGFX+ Airports. :(
23:13:04  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:13:26  <Flygon> wito: Mod your config.grf
23:13:29  <Flygon> Er... .ini
23:13:30  <Flygon> Sorry
23:13:39  <Flygon> I've been playing Ragnarok Online for over half my life
23:13:55  <Flygon> This also makes discussing OpenTTD and Ragnarok Online in the same discussion awkward
23:14:00  <Flygon> Because both used compressed .grf files
23:14:05  <Flygon> Just with incompatible standards
23:14:29  <wito> config.ini?
23:14:33  <Flygon> It'd amuse me if I could get an RO client to use the OpenTTD standard just to confuse the utter crap out of people though
23:14:38  <Flygon> There's a line which you can modify
23:14:50  <Flygon> To let you modify GRFs in existing games and scenarios
23:14:59  <Flygon> It's disabled by default, because, frankly
23:15:07  <Flygon> It's very easy to create unintended bugs by doing this
23:15:13  <wito> It's crazy dangerrous.
23:15:25  <wito> Adding NewGRFs is -mostly- safe, right?
23:16:06  <wito> As I recall: Removing is insanely dangerous, upgrading is iffy and adding is mostly safe.
23:16:14  <wito> But I may be misremembering.
23:16:56  <Flygon> Uhm
23:16:59  <Flygon> Relatively.
23:17:09  <Flygon> I mean that quite... er, relatively.
23:17:18  <Flygon> The situation is shaped like itself.
23:17:39  <wito> Adding OpenGFX+ Airports in an existing game with no airports on the board should be fairly safe, right?
23:17:57  <wito> I mean, clearly not -recommended-
23:18:23  <wito> I'm-a risk it.
23:18:59  <Flygon> It shouldn't be too bad
23:20:14  <wito> Do you remember the name of the setting?
23:21:49  <Flygon> Noe
23:21:51  <Flygon> Nope*
23:21:54  <Flygon> Lemme google it
23:22:29  <Flygon> "For scenario developers, a configuration option exists to enable scenario developer tools, which permit changing grfs in-game (for debugging and testing). This option (scenario_developer) is only available in openttd.cfg or the console. If you decide to change this setting, please take time to actually read the warning message when presented. Also know that if your scenario or saved game gets messed up, the only solution is
23:22:29  <Flygon>  to start from scratch."
23:22:52  <Flygon> So it's actually openttd.cfg
23:22:57  <Flygon> I'm still waking up, sorry :(
23:25:27  <wito> Found it.
23:26:38  <wito> GRF added, nothing exploded.
23:27:24  <wito> Yest.
23:27:32  * wito thwaps wito with a cat
23:27:33  <Flygon> Awesome
23:27:38  <wito> *Yet GDI
23:36:51  <wito> Is there like a toggle fast forward hotkey?
23:45:58  <NGC3982> Flygon: My god, Ragnarok.
23:46:03  <NGC3982> I loved that game so much.
23:55:07  <Flygon> :D
23:55:13  <Flygon> NGC3982: It's STILL going
23:55:17  <Flygon> wito: Dunno
23:55:27  <Flygon> NGC: But the pserv community is mostly where it's at
23:55:32  <Flygon> iRO is sheeeeeeeeeeeeeet
23:55:52  <Wolf01> 'night
23:55:55  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk