Log for #openttd on 11th October 2015:
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06:38:17  <andythenorth> o/
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06:48:32  <Supercheese> or not
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07:39:17  <Alberth> andy has an on/off blinking relation with the channel :p
07:39:22  <Alberth> moin andy :)
07:41:38  <andythenorth> hi hi
07:55:31  * andythenorth horsing
07:57:12  <Alberth> enough pig wrestling done? :)
07:59:20  <andythenorth> for now
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08:31:07  <fjb> Moin
08:40:25  <Alberth> moin
08:40:56  <fjb> Moin Alberth
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09:37:08  <andythenorth> quak
09:39:14  <frosch123> hola
09:55:12  <Alberth> moin
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11:07:16  <Fahrradkette> hey guys, I've been wondering if building diagonal rail tunnels or bridges (in order to build flyovers) will be possible in like n years. I did not find that particular feature on the requested_features list in the wiki, all I found was some statement saying tunnels will be easier because they're implemented as a pair of warpholes.
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11:22:40  <Alberth> diagonal tunnels and bridges are unlikely to happen in the current map layout, imho
11:23:38  <Alberth> maybe even ever
11:23:59  <Alberth> I wouldn't know how to draw a diagonal tunnel end
11:24:29  <Alberth> diagonal track is not in the middle of a tile
11:27:03  <Alberth> the problem looks similar to diagonal going up a level, which is currently also not possible
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11:42:53  <Fahrradkette> I see. Thanks for clarification, I appreciate it.
11:52:15  * andythenorth wonders if he could just make FIRS
11:52:24  <andythenorth> and somebody else could do the vehicle sets :P
11:52:30  <andythenorth> too many unfinished at once
11:58:00  <Alberth> yeah, starting a new project is way easier than finishing one :(
11:58:44  <Alberth> but I would say you can
12:11:30  * andythenorth wonders if the problem is just Tropic
12:11:34  <andythenorth> boring landscape
12:11:56  <Alberth> too many unfinished tropic vehicles?
12:12:27  <andythenorth> unfinished South American roster for Iron Horse
12:12:37  <Alberth> oh
12:12:39  <andythenorth> lots of brown wagons on brown landscape
12:12:53  <andythenorth> also, maybe Busy Bee isn’t so good with FIRS basic economies
12:12:57  <andythenorth> not a lot of variety
12:14:06  <Alberth> why are wagons brown, skidlow usually posts wagons with many colours :)
12:14:55  <Alberth> not exactly south america though
12:16:43  <andythenorth> they’re copied from NARS and such
12:16:47  <andythenorth> they need repainting
12:16:56  <andythenorth> also
tropic has no mountains, ever
12:16:57  <andythenorth> so boring :P
12:18:27  <Alberth> it's for the flatlanders building large flat junctions :p
12:18:44  <andythenorth> flatland is right :)
12:19:20  <andythenorth> @seen danmack
12:19:20  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 15 hours, 2 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <DanMacK> It would help if I extracted the grf from the TAR
12:19:58  * andythenorth bbl
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12:22:22  <argoneus> probably slightly offtopic question...but
12:22:25  <argoneus> how aids would android dev be for a bachelor thesis? I never dev'd for android
12:23:20  <Alberth> "aids" ?
12:24:06  <argoneus> like
12:24:07  <argoneus> annoying
12:24:15  <argoneus> I don't want to do a webdev thesis because it's obnoxious
12:24:25  <argoneus> it has to be javascript web2.0 responsive mobile friendly and whatever
12:24:41  <argoneus> I have no idea how android is
12:24:59  <Alberth> me neither :(
12:25:21  <argoneus> :(
12:25:53  <__ln__> "android dev" alone is not a good thesis topic
12:26:02  <Alberth> it's just java, I guess?
12:34:07  <argoneus> well
12:34:09  <argoneus> it's topics like
12:34:18  <argoneus> "a java application that does X with an android client"
12:34:23  <argoneus> and I'm worried about the client part
12:34:28  <argoneus> since I've never done android
12:53:13  <__ln__> why pick a topic you're not familiar with nor maybe not interested in?
12:56:36  <Alberth> usually the goal is to learn something you don't already know :)
12:58:11  <__ln__> and in bachelor's thesis that something is the skill of academic writing.
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13:05:07  <Alberth> as well as structuring a subject
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13:53:12  <drac_boy> hi
13:54:11  <drac_boy> just curious if anyone here had an itx board or thinking of one?
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14:04:41  <frosch123> i had an atx board once
14:08:20  <drac_boy> did you have 5-7 cards in it? ;) and as usual hi frosch :)
14:08:54  <frosch123> hmm, let's count
14:09:53  <frosch123> network 10/100, graphics, scsi scanner, multi i/o, sound
14:09:58  <frosch123> yeah, that's 5
14:10:38  <drac_boy> let me guess... P2/P3 or athlon? :)
14:10:50  <frosch123> K6 II
14:11:05  <drac_boy> figured.. lot of things went onboard after this era more or less
14:11:28  <frosch123> it had isa and floppy on board
14:11:38  <frosch123> and like one serial and parallel port
14:12:03  <frosch123> s/isa/ata/
14:12:16  <drac_boy> mm .. heh well anyway I'm still undecided about trying to find a nice itx or to just basically stop bothering with x86 too much (other than for laptop) .. but thats a bit unrelated so I wouldn't go too much into it unless you didn't mind
14:12:21  <frosch123> it also had some isa slots i think :)
14:12:53  <drac_boy> frosch for the record if you wanted to know.. you could actually buy an used board that combined a sandybridge cpu with up to 3 isa slots next to the usual pcie+pci slots ... crazy I know ;)
14:13:29  <frosch123> nah, i figured the less stuff there is on a board, the better it runs
14:13:49  <frosch123> if mainboards get too complex, they are buggy as hell
14:14:41  <drac_boy> frosch well...I think part of the problem stems from pcb .. why use an entire separate pcb card at cost when the same audio chips could fit into a 10x5cm empty space on the motherboard itself?
14:15:22  <drac_boy> but yeah some things (niche or not) like multiply digital audio streams or tv tuners still have a purpose existing as addon cards nevertheless
14:15:30  <drac_boy> or a*
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14:21:39  <drac_boy> frosch but anyway what're you doing now?
14:22:48  <frosch123> wondering whether to stop in singapore or bangkok when travelling europe<->australia
14:23:06  <drac_boy> ah...well have fun with that
14:23:15  <frosch123> the pondering? :p
14:23:58  * drac_boy wants to whack you with an empty bag for saying that? :P
14:25:25  <frosch123> my insane globetrotting brother decides to marry at the other end of the world. now i have to figure out how to make the best out of that trip :p
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14:27:00  <frosch123> but none of the stations appear nerdy
14:32:00  <drac_boy> you're strange? ;) heh
14:32:38  <frosch123> i guess so :)
14:38:11  <drac_boy> I'm just looking at some misc websites now (a little bit computer peripherals, a little bit re upcoming model board, and re sorting out if pickup or not)
14:38:15  <drac_boy> slow day otherwise
14:42:02  <drac_boy> if getting a pickup*
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14:45:38  * drac_boy whacks demon with a flaming fork?
14:45:45  <drac_boy> heh..sorry...slow day for me here :)
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15:32:39  <Wolf01> hi hi
15:39:54  <Alberth> o/
15:40:00  <Alberth> kitchen full?
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16:02:13  <Wolf01> no, i just finished it
16:03:06  <Wolf01> and it sits on my bed... i think i'll sleep in the chair :|
16:04:41  <Wolf01> it's too big to fit between the chair's armrests
16:08:11  <Alberth> it sounds like the cat of eddi, taking all the good space :)
16:09:20  <Wolf01> cats and lego have many things in common, taking the space for them is one of these
16:36:49  <Eddi|zuHause> the difference is that once lego occupies a space, it occupies that exact space. a cat occupies all the spaces seemingly simultaneously
16:37:32  <Eddi|zuHause> as soon as you observe a space, a cat occupies that space
16:38:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (it doesn't help that there are two of them, either :p)
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17:16:13  <andythenorth> o/
17:16:26  <Alberth> hai
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17:30:52  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> nah, i figured the less stuff there is on a board, the better it runs <-- all the chipsets still have the ISA stuff builtin, just there are no connections on the board.
18:02:12  * andythenorth considers removing FIRS Basic economies
18:02:21  <andythenorth> because, eh, what’s the point of them?
18:02:22  <andythenorth>
18:02:23  <andythenorth> :P
18:07:48  <Wolf01> o/
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18:20:36  <Alberth> people not getting overwhelmed by the full economy?
18:21:03  <Alberth> it is not required that an author plays with all things he makes :p
18:24:24  <andythenorth> maybe FIRS Tropic Basic just lacks a bit of depth
18:24:32  <andythenorth> Temperate Basic is fun, I have played it numerous times
18:25:34  <frosch123> maybe start a poll :p
18:25:45  <frosch123> i liked the drama around the last one
18:27:13  <andythenorth> yeah :)
18:27:18  <andythenorth> that was fun for a bit :)
18:29:22  <andythenorth> hmm
18:29:27  <andythenorth> Tropic basic has no depth of chains
18:29:38  <andythenorth> most cargos are trivially available
18:30:49  <frosch123> funnily that is the main case in default ttd
18:30:56  <frosch123> steel is the only secondary cargo
18:31:28  <andythenorth> yup
18:32:21  <Alberth> people wrongly ignore toyland :p
18:32:40  <frosch123> toyland has no secondary cargo either
18:34:19  <andythenorth> maybe I should just put the fishing chain in
18:34:52  <andythenorth> or timber
18:35:12  <frosch123> i kind of like the settings of ogfx+industries
18:35:29  <frosch123> user selection of certain chains, or simplification via ports
18:36:13  <frosch123> but well, just "on"/"off" is likely no good plan
18:36:22  <frosch123> everyone would go for all "on"
18:36:37  <frosch123> so, ideally some would have "a" or "b" instead of "on" or "off"
18:37:44  <frosch123> like: alcohol source -> fruit or grain
18:38:20  <frosch123> food source -> fish or farm
18:38:42  <frosch123> wood product -> paper or building supplies
18:39:23  <frosch123> port: supplies from primary or secondary cargos
18:43:30  <andythenorth> I think the Basic idea is ok, for some reason Tropic isn’t fun though
18:43:44  <andythenorth> usually this ends up with a tweak, not a rebuild :P
18:43:46  <andythenorth> usually
18:45:51  <andythenorth> food is quite dominant
18:46:02  <andythenorth> just adding fish won’t help, because fish -> food
18:46:14  <andythenorth> could do fish -> export cargo
18:46:17  <andythenorth> but that’s also broing
18:46:20  <andythenorth> boring *
18:51:02  <frosch123> so, you want some secondary cargo?
18:51:13  <frosch123> or some other supplies?
18:51:23  <frosch123> or more primaries?
18:56:02  <frosch123> for more secondary cargo, remove some stuff from the ports
18:56:19  <frosch123> e.g. add some industries that produce vehicle parts
18:56:36  <frosch123> either from rubber or from ore or stuff
18:57:38  <andythenorth> that is a good idea
18:57:45  <andythenorth> or I add timber
18:57:56  <frosch123> generally there is very little in the metal area
18:57:59  <andythenorth> yes
18:58:04  <frosch123> otoh, you can focus more on food
18:58:12  <andythenorth> I have an industry that can produce vehicle parts already
18:58:12  <frosch123> and add more processed food
18:58:47  <andythenorth> I could produce sugar instead of food, at food refinery
18:58:51  <andythenorth> as export cargo
18:58:59  <frosch123> hmm, though food is mostly two stage :/
18:59:05  <andythenorth> food is over-provided I think
18:59:37  <frosch123> maybe replace one of the supplies with animal food
19:00:03  <frosch123> so, meat is no primary, but a secondary
19:00:39  <frosch123> yeah, i guess turning livestock into a secondary cargo could work
19:04:27  <frosch123> no new graphics or cargos needed :)
19:04:55  <frosch123> add a grain source, and deliver beans and grain to the ranch
19:06:04  <frosch123> export fruit directly
19:06:16  <frosch123> and make the food processing plant accept beans and livestock
19:06:58  <frosch123> all food is chili con carne then
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19:25:10  <andythenorth> ha
19:25:16  <andythenorth> chili con carne cargo :P
19:25:45  * frosch123 senses a cargo class discussion
19:27:31  <andythenorth> ‘tasty’
19:27:36  <andythenorth> ‘reheatable'
19:27:45  <andythenorth> ‘non-vegetarian'
19:36:33  <Supercheese> 'spicy' on a scale of 1-5
19:37:20  * andythenorth plans to make Basic economies a little bigger
19:39:09  <V453000> signals in tunnels
19:39:40  <frosch123> i am against inserters in underground belts
19:40:02  <V453000> inserters aint signals, factorio has its own rail signals :P
19:40:24  <frosch123> but no tunnels :p
19:40:33  <V453000> yet :)
19:44:23  <frosch123> if you move more stuff underground, then please pieps :p
19:44:46  <frosch123> while underground pipes are said to loose less pressure
19:44:54  <frosch123> i mainly use them because they are not in the way
19:45:09  <frosch123> well, and sometimes because they do not connect to all sides
19:45:37  <frosch123> or add a jetpack to fly over them :p
19:46:34  <V453000> legacy of the void in less than a month :P
19:47:40  <frosch123> i completely lost track of lotv, at some point it turned into chaotically changing and reverting random shit
19:47:55  <Supercheese> frosch123: I made a mod to let you walk over pipes:
19:48:03  <Supercheese> It was one of the very first things I did in Factorio
19:48:10  <V453000> I didnt really follow it from the start, but I want to play the campaign :)
19:48:14  <V453000> haha Supercheese <3
19:48:24  <Supercheese> there is also a separate jetpack mod
19:48:56  <Supercheese> seriously though, I kept getting blocked off by my own damn buildings, and had to fix it
19:49:24  <frosch123> i like comparing factorio modding with ottd modding :p
19:49:29  <frosch123> bobs mods are like ecs
19:49:43  <frosch123> way too big and completely out of scale in some parts
19:50:17  <frosch123> all the mods are mostly exploring stuff currently
19:50:35  <frosch123> i guess at some point there will be some which take ideas but scale them somewhat sane :)
19:51:43  <V453000> yeah that I have to admit
19:51:46  <Supercheese> I might make a zeppelin mod, because zeppelins are the best things
19:51:46  <V453000> most mods have some idea
19:51:51  <V453000> and bring it WAY the fuck over the top
19:52:07  <V453000> at the same time, many hardcore players find that perfectly fitting
19:52:08  <Supercheese> airship trains :U
19:52:26  <V453000> at the same time though, there are many great little tool mods
19:52:28  <V453000> which is amazing
19:52:29  <V453000> anyway
19:52:30  <V453000> gnite
19:52:34  <V453000> work tomorrow <3
19:52:52  <Supercheese> good night, don't let the biters bite
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20:02:40  <andythenorth> hmm
20:02:43  <andythenorth> Copper
20:04:43  <Wolf01> eh
20:05:37  <Eddi|zuHause> why does it say "photo", but then it's an mp4?
20:06:15  <andythenorth> Wolf01: seen the 2015 Technic? o_O
20:06:42  <Wolf01> yes, i want to burn my eyes :(
20:07:02  <Wolf01> i hope for some real technic sets
20:07:33  <Wolf01> btw, s/5/6
20:08:00  <andythenorth> ha
20:08:01  <andythenorth> yes
20:08:10  <andythenorth> I like them though, especially purple go kart :)
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20:09:38  <andythenorth> hmm
20:09:44  <andythenorth> maybe I could have ‘minerals’ cargo :P
20:09:49  <andythenorth> produced by ‘mines’
20:09:50  <andythenorth> :P
20:09:58  * andythenorth considers Salt for Tropic Basic,_Peru-20Sept2013.jpg
20:10:06  <andythenorth> but maybe Salt is just Chemicals?
20:10:15  <Wolf01> the next step will be a vespene refinery?
20:11:17  <andythenorth> different economy ;)
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20:14:55  <ryouma> i can't use openttd because the fonts are too small.  if i do -r 640x480, it is fine, but there are some things that don't work.  <andythenorth> suggested game options -> interface size -> double size, but there is no "interface size" option.  i am running 1.4.4 (debian jessie).  also "you’ll also need max zoom in settings to be 2x or 4x".  all i notice is zoom_max.  it is set to 5.  is that ok?
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20:18:55  <Alberth>
20:19:14  <Alberth> standard FAQ question :)
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20:24:59  <andythenorth> perhaps interface zoom is only in 1.5.x
20:25:01  <andythenorth> not sure
20:25:07  * andythenorth builds from trunk
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20:33:19  <ryouma> one issue is that some resolutions that i try seem to freeze my x windows.  i get a black screen and mouse and nothing else.  i have to kill fluxbox to fix it.
20:38:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably the fault of your video driver
20:39:28  <ryouma> i had already tried the font size change, and don't remember the issue.  it might be that all the icons were too small to figure out what they are?
20:39:58  <ryouma> is there a way to pan without the minimap?
20:40:17  <Eddi|zuHause> right click or arrow keys?
20:40:45  <ryouma> right click just provides info on what you click on; drag does nothing.  was hoping mouse-only for accessibility reasons.
20:41:34  <Eddi|zuHause> well, click on something that is not a button :p
20:41:45  <ryouma> that pans?  didn't work for me.
20:45:37  <Eddi|zuHause> have you ever played a game before?
20:46:05  <Eddi|zuHause> also, there is a setting for left-click scrolling and for edge-scrolling, i believe.
20:46:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i could be imagining this, i never used those...
20:49:37  <ryouma> Eddi|zuHause: not sure how to interpret your question's intention.  felt rude.
20:49:46  <andythenorth> nah, he’s just being direct :)
20:49:51  * andythenorth wonders seriously if ‘metal ore’ is a valid cargo for Basic economies
20:50:03  <Eddi|zuHause> ryouma: no, i'm just german.
20:50:22  <ryouma> drag truly did nothing.  questioning whether i played a game before soudns like saying it should do something.
20:50:38  <ryouma> i found the option to pan, which it calls scrolling.  it works now.
20:50:55  <Eddi|zuHause> ryouma: i meant, how familiar are you with game interfaces in general
20:51:50  <ryouma> i have played simcity long ago and some rts, including freecraft
20:52:31  <ryouma> i have been very frustrated trying to get even one game on debian to even work.  openttd is the closest to working, but it is still not there.
20:52:43  <ryouma> (freecraft worked on wheezy)
20:52:58  <ryouma> and working, for me, means a legible font and legible icons
20:53:09  <ryouma> includes*
20:53:41  <Eddi|zuHause> ryouma: if you're not willing to update to 1.5, you can try the old "biggui" grf, which was meant for that case
20:53:57  <Eddi|zuHause> but things might be unpolished in such an old version...
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20:55:08  <penut> is there a way for me to see change logs on Openttd versions?
20:55:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there is a changelog link on the download page
20:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause> also, there should be a changelog file in your download
20:56:15  <ryouma> the reason i don't know if it is my graphics card is that 1280x720 is the resolution i always use on my monitor
20:57:31  <Rubidium> for ryouma I would've suggested to just install the openttd binary from unstable, but due to some library migrations that's definitely not an option anymore
20:57:40  <ryouma> i am looking up biggui now.  i presume this is not on debian?  did not find it there.  i clicked on wiki "online content" which was pointed to and it is not there either.
20:57:50  <Eddi|zuHause> <ryouma> i have played simcity long ago and some rts, including freecraft <-- i see. with this background, edge-scrolling is probably more familiar than right-click-scrolling
20:58:32  <Eddi|zuHause> ryouma: it was probably removed from online content, due to being obsolete
20:59:03  <Rubidium> biggui is still downloadable in trunk ("opengfx + biggui" that is)
20:59:16  <ryouma> hmm, right click does scroll.  i thought i tried that before.  i did not find edge scrolling but panning and scrolling are fine.
20:59:36  <ryouma> Eddi|zuHause: the faq stillpoints to the nonexistent download
21:00:57  <Eddi|zuHause> ryouma: if the removal was done the correct way, then it should still be possible to download in the ingame content download menu
21:02:21  <Rubidium> biggui is also downloadable from online content in 1.3, so it should also be downloadable in 1.4
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21:02:37  <Rubidium> anyhow, good night
21:03:58  <ryouma> ok i got biggui to work.  it seems ok with 800x600 and slightly smaller fonts.  although i don't know if 800x600 will contain all dialog boxes.
21:04:26  <andythenorth> probably won't
21:04:32  <andythenorth> occupational hazard tbh
21:12:44  * andythenorth - bed
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