Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:01 <tipsyTentacle> Hm... okay! Thanks. 00:03:43 <greeter> https://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_path_signal_layouts i find the two way triple track layout for handling main lines the most useful. with path based signaling and switches in the right places, you can have an awful lot of trains on the tracks before you run into deadlocks 00:06:18 <tipsyTentacle> Ohhh interesting. This will be useful. (: 00:07:27 <greeter> some of those are more advanced than others. there's some i'm too afraid to try lol 00:08:25 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:08:38 <greeter> but i'm not the best person to dispense this kind of advice. i see screen shots on the wiki and main site of really nice, slick, clean looking networks. then i look at mine and it looks like someone on crack built them 00:09:56 <tipsyTentacle> LOL I am sure you're just not giving yourself enough credit. :P 00:10:37 <greeter> oh the networks i build get the job done, they just look ugly lol 00:11:26 <greeter> and i don't plan them out well enough since i'm constantly making changes... making one way tracks two way tracks or vice versa, or making one way tracks one way in the opposite direction 00:11:31 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 00:11:57 *** SmatZ [~smatz@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:12:01 *** SmatZ [~smatz@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:12:45 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:13:01 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:13:31 <tipsyTentacle> Oh. I see. Well, it's hard to plan for the future sometimes ]; 00:13:33 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@000128e4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:13:41 <greeter> lol true 00:14:02 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@000128e4.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:14:21 *** Ammler [~ammler@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:14:31 *** Ammler [~ammler@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:15:09 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:15:31 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:20:13 <greeter> and i just did one of those things lol 00:25:26 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 00:26:03 <drac_boy> anyone here interested in Sentinel locomotives? 00:26:31 <greeter> what are those? 00:31:23 <drac_boy> greeter well to sum it up... 00:32:30 <drac_boy> uk designed (there were a few noteable examples sold oversea) locomotive that was basically an advanced single-man vertical&horizontal boiler steam locomotive .. most of them were for shunting purposes but you had a few steam-powered railcars too nevertheless 00:33:29 <drac_boy> some of them almost look just like a diesel shunter locomotive except for lot of white smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe (instead of diesel-burning smoke) 00:33:39 <drac_boy> one sec.. 00:34:20 <greeter> ok. hmm 00:34:48 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:35:24 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has joined #openttd 00:35:52 <drac_boy> this was one of the earlier diesel-lookish model greeter http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_03_2013/post-14569-0-26353000-1362314127.jpg 00:36:27 <drac_boy> the water tank is near nose (re weight balance) .. pistons are under the additional access covers near middle .. and the vertical boiler is within view of the cab 00:36:59 <drac_boy> the one giveaway (other than the odd hood) could be the lack of siderods which were typical on just about any gas/diesel shunter locomotives around that time 00:37:22 <drac_boy> these sentinel locomotive had the piston driving a chain/shaft drive to both axles internally 00:38:20 <greeter> interesting looking vehicle for sure 00:38:30 <tipsyTentacle> Interesting 00:39:06 <drac_boy> greeter heres a WWII-dated "mass production" design (but only LNER amassed a large grouping of them) to give you an idea of how the interior layout functioned http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7BxsqoVqUQQ/TihFo0zSanI/AAAAAAAAARA/rWJVrdBYZqQ/s1600/Y3.jpg 00:39:49 <drac_boy> that particular boxy-looking one was designed for like 10-20kph operation which suited its purpose for any kind of shuntings or light works with only one single man needed (no fireman etc) 00:40:21 <greeter> well i don't know much about trains, but it sure looks interesting 00:40:25 <drac_boy> oh yeah and that one is a shaft driven one if that wasn't already obvious :) 00:40:45 <drac_boy> greeter well sentinel was a bit unique .. btw it was not only one-man locomotives they built...here's a little surprise... 00:41:42 <drac_boy> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Steam_powered_coach.jpg 00:41:52 <drac_boy> hows that for a vertical boiler (you can see the bottom of it in fact) ... bus :P 00:42:26 <drac_boy> the lower weight and higher power of diesel tractors/buses killed off most of sentinel's steam market eventually tho as you can already imagine 00:43:38 <tipsyTentacle> :O 00:43:43 <greeter> looks rustic :-) 00:43:58 <tipsyTentacle> Cool. 00:45:01 <drac_boy> greeter heh :) 00:46:35 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 00:46:51 *** davidstrauss [~quassel@quassel.davidstrauss.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:46:51 *** davidstrauss [~quassel@quassel.davidstrauss.net] has joined #openttd 00:47:47 <drac_boy> greeter if you want something a little strange try this http://www.modelrailroading.nl/Articulation/images/netherlands/LTM%2051/LTM51-2.jpg 00:47:59 <drac_boy> that was the only one garratt design that doesn't exactly look like a garratt! 00:48:57 <greeter> that certainly looks different lol 00:49:15 <drac_boy> inside pistons (the only lone garratt example of that afaik) ... and the small coal+water supply was carried on the boiler chassis instead of either power chassis's (their idea was that there wouldn't be any front-vs-rear weight imbalances due to fuel useage differences) 00:49:36 <drac_boy> it nevertheless did work well (even if it was only an one-off example) tho 00:49:47 <greeter> nice 00:50:01 <greeter> hmm, cargo ship is a really slow way to move coal around :-S 00:50:46 <drac_boy> greeter btw the africa garratts actually eventually often carried a water tender with them as to more or less keep some additional weight down on the drivers under the locomotive's water tank 00:50:58 <greeter> hmm 00:51:07 <drac_boy> (yep the tender water was pumped over into the locomotive water as wanted) 00:52:10 <greeter> i see 00:54:59 *** Gantradies [~oftc-webi@101.191.132.84] has joined #openttd 00:55:09 <Gantradies> testing 00:55:49 <greeter> ok 00:56:19 <Gantradies> hey guys. erm.. im running a server in a VM on a friends rack, know enough abotu the command promnpt and teh server commands to do not break anything, is there a simple way to set a dedicated server to automatically load the last autosave without anything external, liek a command line option/switch or something? 00:57:43 <tipsyTentacle> make a shell script and put it into the startup dir? 00:59:09 *** LordAro [~LordAro@213.138.101.13] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:59:12 *** LordAro [~LordAro@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io] has joined #openttd 01:00:03 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:00:17 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:03:34 <greeter> why do i always laugh at this game whenever bad things happen to me? 01:03:55 <tipsyTentacle> Tell us what happened! :D 01:04:38 <greeter> half my ships are lost, because the first order in the queue was about a thousand tiles away from the depot 01:05:39 <drac_boy> greeter btw there is a different kind of articulated locomotives that for some reason seem to have only lasted in the very early years then wasn't heard of so much afterward..let me try find that name for you... 01:06:08 <greeter> alright then 01:07:56 <drac_boy> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/VSB-Eb-2-5Nr25.jpg/800px-VSB-Eb-2-5Nr25.jpg that look like a 0-4-6 to someone who just knows that a steam locomotive is a steam locomotive right? :) 01:07:58 <greeter> bought the ships in january, it's april and they're still nowhere near the first stop 01:08:27 <greeter> now when i think of older trains, that's the style of design i picture 01:09:02 <drac_boy> greeter well what if I told you its really made up of two separate chassis sections? :) 01:10:16 <greeter> it looks like one solid piece there. how did they do that? 01:11:15 <drac_boy> its really one chassis carrying the usual cab/boiler with drive axles .. then a separate chassis carrying the rear tender section .. and what becomes strange here is that the tender is anchored into the locomotive chassis in a way that part of its weight transfers onto the drive axles (think alike to a car trailer that has its axle set all the way back so some of the cargo weight ends up onto the car's rear axle, not best ana 01:11:43 <drac_boy> so basically its a longer locomotive with the curvation flexibility of a shorter locomotive 01:12:12 <drac_boy> I imagine in that photo the break happens just between the cabfloor and the fuel box 01:12:26 <drac_boy> not sure tho 01:12:44 <drac_boy> its an odd idea tho.. a 0-4-6 not exactly being a 0-4-6 :) 01:14:37 <greeter> hmm 01:16:15 <drac_boy> greeter oh and you know how the whyte system works for steam locomotives? (re 0-6-0, 0-4-4-0, etc) 01:16:46 <greeter> well i've never heard of the whyte system actually :-S trains are far from being my specialty 01:17:40 <drac_boy> greeter well there were a few odd locomotives that made mock of the system .. like eg this http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/belgian/syss809.jpg it would had been called a 4-2-2 but that implies one driver axle ... can you can ops :) 01:18:02 <greeter> hmm? 01:18:08 <drac_boy> no wonder that many countries used the UIC (originally based from germany, no surprise) system which could better count powered vs unpowered axles 01:18:27 <drac_boy> even electric/diesel used the UIC system more or less (like eg B-B or Bo'Bo') 01:20:16 <drac_boy> greeter either way that aside, just asking if you recognize this? :) http://www.trainweb.org/tgvpages/images/proto/tgv001vsg.jpg 01:21:09 <greeter> can't say that i do, but then again trains are not a popular mode of transport where i live 01:22:07 <drac_boy> greeter well thats the tgv (aka france's original high speed train) but its not the one everyone would think of tho... this is a gas turbine example 01:22:27 <greeter> interesting, not diesel? 01:22:36 <drac_boy> funny timing tho..they built it then the 1974 oil crisis happened and the politic was to go for full electrification instead 01:22:51 <drac_boy> greeter..diesel would be heavier and with less power .. not something you want in a light fast trainset 01:23:26 <drac_boy> the one drawback to any kind of turbine designs tho is the high fuel useage even at idle (so they were best for limited/non-stop trains of any sort but even then) 01:24:07 <greeter> ah, true. was just thinking that diesel might be preferred because it's more efficient 01:24:10 <drac_boy> even one usa railroad tried a few different coal/gas turbine locomotives in different duties but eventually all the good ones still left got reassigned to flatland country running which best matched their turbine units 01:24:22 <greeter> hmm 01:25:57 <drac_boy> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d2/70/8d/d2708d51856c9139822e6535be480476.jpg" target="_blank">https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d2/70/8d/d2708d51856c9139822e6535be480476.jpg heres one of the 'smaller' gas-turbine unit at home on a long nonstop freight run https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d2/70/8d/d2708d51856c9139822e6535be480476.jpg" target="_blank">https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d2/70/8d/d2708d51856c9139822e6535be480476.jpg 01:26:04 <drac_boy> err..sorry about the double links :| 01:26:35 <drac_boy> and http://www.posters57.com/images/categories/UNION-PACIFIC-RR--JET-AGE--GAS-TURBINE-POSTER(1).jpg coal-turbine version (with high power output from the look of the additional body) 01:26:46 <greeter> just a small engine lol 01:27:32 <greeter> would love to work for an outfit like that. unfortunately they don't hire a huge number of people like me 01:27:39 <drac_boy> greeter well the 'small' one was a single body unit with fuel contained ... the 'big' one were multi-unit (and some of them even reused old steam locomotive tender with the water baffle torched out to extend the coal capacity 01:27:52 <greeter> i see 01:27:57 <drac_boy> the second link is a good example of the latter type 01:28:30 <greeter> hmm 01:29:23 <drac_boy> greeter mind you it was not only turbine locomotives that were "supersized" on the UP rails..let me show you a diesel-electric thats really big... 01:29:46 <greeter> ok 01:31:10 <drac_boy> http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/1/9/7/7197.1265516308.jpg look at that BIG 8-axle unit compared to the very common 4-axle unit behind it :p 01:31:23 <drac_boy> that thing was actually a twin-engine unit 01:31:42 <drac_boy> (two 645 blocks for anyone else here who may want to know) 01:32:17 <drac_boy> come to think about it *that* is the only 8-axle diesel locomotive I know of, everyone else even oversea only had 4 or 6 axles 01:32:20 <drac_boy> heh 01:33:21 <greeter> that could move a lot of cargo. in fact i suspect it's doing just that 01:34:22 <drac_boy> greeter you want call this a "butt-nose"? it seem to be like someone took a big sledgehammer and smashed the nose inward :p http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/3/6/8636.1296503601.jpg 01:34:47 <drac_boy> note how its much bigger looking than that one little standard 4-axle diesel locomotive just behind it once again 01:34:55 <greeter> indeed 01:35:04 <greeter> i'd say at least twice the length 01:35:43 <drac_boy> greeter but anyhow to cut the story short .. there is an earlier example of high-hp locomotive that was built oversea for obvious reason..one sec to get photo before I continue this.. 01:35:58 <greeter> alright 01:36:11 <greeter> no rush, i'm still cruising news headlines. history is about to be made here lol 01:43:50 <drac_boy> http://sp9010.ncry.org/photos/9004xx01.jpg short story is a few of these were built in germany then shipped oversea to work for Southern Pacific which had kept trying to ask emd/alco/etc for more than 1200-2000hp output and getting nowwhere with them 01:44:24 <drac_boy> these thing were a bit massive (even the thick chassis depth gives that away too) and had like 3500hp per unit on hand 01:45:18 <drac_boy> and as expected...running these units in heavy trains through the mountain for a long time finally forced the american builders to upper the hp race :) 01:47:12 <drac_boy> (and yep as expected when these units came out SP did buy up a few groups of them) 01:48:01 <greeter> hmm 01:48:23 <greeter> long straight track, i bet the engineers don't care for that so much lol 01:48:39 <drac_boy> greeter its a funny story when you think about it..ask the local builder, get rebuffed, buy something foreign instead, local builder get all worked up trying to match it :) 01:48:52 <greeter> hmm 01:51:02 <drac_boy> greeter about pressing the hand of the local builder...when emd finally built some 3000hp units five years later .. guess who bought a modest number of them? SP of course 01:51:20 <greeter> nice 01:51:54 <drac_boy> hard to say but I think that the german 3500hp units made emd build that 3000hp unit of their own :) 01:52:55 <greeter> hmm 01:52:57 <drac_boy> greeter as for long straight tracks..that was typical of many lines between middle and west usa where theres lot of empty land and not as many urban sprawls (other than for some of calfornia) 01:53:18 <greeter> exactly. no obstacles to building long straight tracks. highways are the same way 01:53:41 <greeter> i once drove for four hours going due west from cancun. not one turn or hill. most boring trip ever 01:53:46 <drac_boy> these yellow turbine locomotives I mentioned earlier on? they could be expected to run for several long hours nonstop just to get from one yard to another yard at all :) 01:54:17 <drac_boy> oh that reminds me greeter...a funny photo..I don't think its online but I'll describe it... 01:54:34 <greeter> alright 01:55:33 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:55:42 <drac_boy> it was of a streamlined diesel locomotive somewhere in calfornia .. running at high speed "with its air conditioning in effect" .. you want guess what that really meant? :) 01:56:38 <greeter> hmm 01:57:20 <drac_boy> the nose door was opened letting big gust of cooler wind into the cab nonstop ... this somewhat preceded mechanical a/c units on locomotives hehe :) 01:57:38 <drac_boy> and just to give you an idea http://www.vistadome.com/postcards/emd_rr/up961.jpg you can see the outline of the door on front 01:57:44 <greeter> ah i see. well air cooling is one way to get the job done lol 01:57:57 <greeter> ah i see 01:58:00 *** ST2 [~ST2@2607:5300:60:1bde::1] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:58:06 *** ST2 [~ST2@2607:5300:60:1bde::1] has joined #openttd 01:58:14 <drac_boy> greeter .. yeah .. funny way to cool off the hot cab on a long ride tho :) 01:58:52 <drac_boy> later units had optional (then standard) a/c units ... the retrofit ones could be obvious from the large white pod on top of cab roof (its almost the same thing you find on top of certain rv vans too mind you) 01:59:11 <greeter> hmm 02:01:03 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:01:26 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #openttd 02:02:46 <drac_boy> greeter you want know of a slight odd usa-only railroad nickname? :) 02:03:14 <greeter> what's that? 02:04:05 <drac_boy> http://www.american-rails.com/images/TR49624.jpg that was called a cow-calf because the calf always follows its mother or in this case its two identical locomotives but one doesn't have a normal cab per se so its always running in MU with a cab-equipped unit 02:04:28 <drac_boy> at least the cabless unit did have some basic controls under an access panel in case one had to be moved around on its own 02:04:50 <drac_boy> still.. "cow-calf" .. i always wondered who first made up that term :) 02:07:03 <greeter> hmm, a farmer who become an engineer maybe? 02:08:06 <drac_boy> greeter well theres a lot of interesting railroad slangs from the old days in usa too tho...let me show you some examples... 02:08:30 <greeter> ok 02:10:21 *** Sirenia [~sirenia@93.186.164.51] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:11:16 *** Sirenia [~sirenia@93.186.164.51] has joined #openttd 02:13:06 <drac_boy> soak her = dump fire and put all sander/brakes on NOW damn it ... hand bomber = later steam locomotives with no strokers so umm you get the idea there .. highball = lets go .. deadhead = ride unpaid to alternative barrack/job elsewhere .. hotshot = priority train (certain freights too) 02:13:40 <drac_boy> oh and 'shin peeler' for when a mail worker has to drag a heavy mail bag on or off the train .. weird one heh 02:14:26 <drac_boy> and I've never heard of it being used outside north america but if you hear "juice jack" it actually means an electric train because .. the juice is that thing from the overhead wires :P 02:14:36 <greeter> lol sounds a lot like the electrical trade, there's some pretty odd slang in it too 02:18:27 <drac_boy> :) 02:18:32 <drac_boy> anyway going sleep now so bye ok? 02:18:41 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 02:28:45 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:28:51 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 02:47:18 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:56:27 *** guru3_ [~guru3@109.200.19.187] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:56:59 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:59:39 <tipsyTentacle> Mew~ http://tipsyrailways.tumblr.com/post/131464240083/update-saga-line-addition-15-10-18igd 03:20:14 *** tipsyTentacle [~kvirc@63.138.45.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:23 *** tipsyTentacle [~kvirc@63.138.45.36] has joined #openttd 03:30:59 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 03:31:31 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:46:53 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 03:47:08 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 03:50:29 <sim-al2> tispy, are you planning to fill the whole map up? 03:51:12 <tipsyTentacle> Yes. 03:51:17 <tipsyTentacle> I am planning to. 03:52:05 <sim-al2> Cool. Any freight so far, or is it all pax? 03:53:08 <tipsyTentacle> All PAX. Bullet trains don't have cars for frieght and I don't want to build a second line on normal rails just for frieght. 03:53:43 <tipsyTentacle> I certainly want to try doing both in my next game though. 03:54:10 <sim-al2> Yeah, I like the Japan Set but the regular MUs are not set up right, and they get worse the longer you build them. 03:55:08 <sim-al2> They add horsepower but no TE, so only the front end has it, thus acceleration gets worse with length 03:56:14 <sim-al2> Freight cars are good though, I tried out a freight game with the Japan Set and the cars work well 03:56:25 <tipsyTentacle> Yeah, I've noticed that most of my bullet trains have troubles climbing hills. :| 03:56:32 <tipsyTentacle> Also, excuse me, but what does MU and TE mean? 03:57:21 <sim-al2> MU=multiple unit, ie a train that has the power source (electric motors or diesel engines) distributed throughout the train, instead of in dedicated locmotives 03:57:39 <sim-al2> TE=tractive effort, basically pulling power 03:57:58 <tipsyTentacle> Oh okay, thanks~! (: 03:58:14 <sim-al2> so for example, the 0 series Shinkansen had motors on ALL cars orginally 03:58:52 <sim-al2> Most newer Shinkansen trains have the end cars unpowered though, but nearly all intermediate cars have motors 04:00:30 <sim-al2> Some newer Tokyo area trains have combinations like 6 motors cars and 9 trailers though, mainly because newer technology allowed similar acceleration with less equipment, and thus cheaper building/maintenance 04:02:54 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 04:03:39 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 04:04:21 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 04:05:15 <tipsyTentacle> Oh, intresting. 04:05:53 <tipsyTentacle> So, just to be sure, this means I should try to keep my trains short? 04:06:33 <sim-al2> I think the problem is that the Japan Set was orginally made before "realistic acceleration" was added, so they only needed to add power to make the trains work correctly 04:06:58 <sim-al2> Probably would help a lot with acceleration 04:07:42 <sim-al2> As you've noticed, the longer trains will have more trouble with hills because of that problem 04:10:16 *** _dp_ [~dP@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe69:152c] has quit [Server closed connection] 04:10:20 *** dP [~dP@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe69:152c] has joined #openttd 04:10:22 *** dP is now known as _dp_ 04:12:52 <tipsyTentacle> hm, is it possible to modify newgrf's? 04:14:22 <sim-al2> Maybe, I don't know if the set has it;s source avaliable 04:15:08 <tipsyTentacle> Oh. So they are not modifiable without the source, got it. 04:15:37 <sim-al2> Yeah, it might be possible to decompile, but that's far beyond what I know about 04:16:00 <tipsyTentacle> hm... 04:16:04 <sim-al2> They have a site but it seems to have been made long before OpenTTD was avaliable 04:17:52 <tipsyTentacle> Oh well. 04:23:26 <sim-al2> http://i.imgur.com/UzyzV6I.png 04:27:09 <sim-al2> If you try an industry set like FIRS, the freight trains get really interesting 04:29:36 <tipsyTentacle> FIRS looks like it would make the game a lot more complex than i need at the moment ]; 04:29:49 <tipsyTentacle> that is one cool looking train though. (: 04:36:08 <sim-al2> Thanks, the container train takes fruit to the brewery, where along with a bunch of grain, alcohol gets made and taken to another city by a particuarly long set of trains 04:36:10 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:36:51 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 04:37:02 <sim-al2> I noticed you have local stations being served by your trains, do you have a hub and spoke kind of network, or do they work their way around the system? 04:37:13 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:40:06 <tipsyTentacle> Um, I don't really have a hub, I suppose. I didn't learn about hubs and mainlines and sidelines until I made most of the connections 04:40:49 <tipsyTentacle> Typically though, there is a long line down the coast connecting all the cities, and then just a random city (near the middle) where it splits off to another region of cities 04:43:24 <sim-al2> I see, for this system (tipsyrailways.tumblr.com/post/131464240083/update-saga-line-addition-15-10-18igd) will trains travel from Outsu all the way to Saga? 04:44:32 <tipsyTentacle> Oh no! That might be troublesome. I haven't triedd it though. 04:44:49 <tipsyTentacle> Um, each coloured line has it own set of trains to service it. 04:45:28 <tipsyTentacle> So... there would be 5 sets of trains (that only overlap at one station per pair of set) from Outsu to Saga 04:45:41 <sim-al2> Heh, do you use cargo dist? 04:45:46 <tipsyTentacle> Yes. (: 04:46:49 <sim-al2> Lots of fun, if you have the demand it might be worth trying express trains serving the major cities end to end, that seems to help when a city gets congested 04:47:32 <sim-al2> At least when I use cargo-dist, the transfer stations get crazy busy 04:48:42 <tipsyTentacle> I had a problem with tons of people queueing up at Machida to get to Kasaoka. :| 04:48:51 <tipsyTentacle> I "fixed" it by adding more trains to the blue line. 04:50:01 <sim-al2> Heh, I love it when the passengers go to somewhat random destinations, but since this is virtual Japan you could say it's a popular shrine town 04:51:08 <tipsyTentacle> Hehe I should make a newgrf with just religious buildings to prop down in towns 04:51:52 <sim-al2> I think there's a newGRF with landmark buildings, I don't know how many of them are religious though 04:51:57 *** michi_cc [michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 04:52:02 *** michi_cc [michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 04:52:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 04:53:55 <tipsyTentacle> hm, the newGRF i found seems to be mostly German landmarks? 04:55:04 *** Demosthenex [~Demosthen@c-98-201-100-25.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 04:55:16 *** Demosthenex [~Demosthen@c-98-201-100-25.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4110.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4EB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 04:58:02 <sim-al2> There is a World Landmarks set, but it doesn't seem to have been developed recently 04:58:03 <sim-al2> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=68936&hilit=World+Landmarks&start=80#p1114813 04:59:08 <sim-al2> THe ones drawn seem to be German though :D 05:00:00 <tipsyTentacle> hehe this is the one i found. :P 05:00:08 <sim-al2> Woops lol 05:03:10 *** argoneus [~argoneus@argoneus.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 05:03:10 *** argoneus [~argoneus@argoneus.com] has joined #openttd 05:08:56 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@voyager.jontysewell.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 05:09:00 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@voyager.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 05:10:21 *** Markk [mark@h30n15-nt-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 05:10:25 *** Markk [mark@h30n15-nt-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 05:46:18 *** Raiz [~raiz@00020a02.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 05:46:28 *** Raiz [~raiz@00020a02.user.oftc.net] has quit [] 05:48:24 *** gnu_jj [~quassel@ipbcc36ea9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Server closed connection] 05:48:27 *** gnu_jj [~quassel@ipbcc36ea9.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd 06:07:59 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 06:08:03 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:26:48 *** NGC3982 [~hawking@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 06:27:00 *** NGC3982 [~hawking@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 06:38:32 *** Taco_ [~kitty@2407:500::2:981d:d5e9] has quit [Server closed connection] 06:38:44 *** Taco [~kitty@2407:500::2:981d:d5e9] has joined #openttd 06:40:04 *** Raiz [~raiz@00020a02.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:42:22 *** Raiz [~raiz@00020a02.user.oftc.net] has quit [] 06:47:59 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Server closed connection] 06:52:28 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #openttd 07:15:57 *** KenjiE20 [~kenji@vps.longbowslair.co.uk] has quit [Server closed connection] 07:16:31 *** KenjiE20 [~kenji@vps.longbowslair.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:20:29 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] 07:55:32 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 08:10:48 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-220-130.tal.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:25 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:22:00 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Server closed connection] 08:22:14 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:33:01 *** Gantradies [~oftc-webi@101.191.132.84] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:59:41 *** Sylf [~sylf@c-71-199-78-95.hsd1.mo.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59:53 *** Sylf [~sylf@c-71-199-78-95.hsd1.mo.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 10:25:35 *** funnel [~funnel@0001c7d4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 10:25:46 *** funnel [~funnel@0001c7d4.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:36:25 *** tipsyTentacle [~kvirc@63.138.45.36] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:36:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:36:48 <Wolf01> hi o/ 10:37:09 <__ln__> how do you do 10:37:26 <Wolf01> sleepy 10:42:21 *** JGR [~JGR@host86-135-49-206.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 10:42:50 *** JGR [~JGR@host86-135-49-206.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:54:21 *** Wipe [wipe@fodev.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 10:54:24 *** Wipe [wipe@fodev.net] has joined #openttd 10:58:14 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.111.159] has joined #openttd 10:59:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BED8.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:13:33 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 11:13:49 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:27:01 *** __ln__ [~lauri@2001:2003:50de:2a46:250:43ff:fe01:4a71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:32:32 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:04 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:45:41 <planetmaker> g'day 11:49:57 <V453000> how can monday be 11:50:01 <V453000> "g" day :P 11:50:04 <V453000> hi. 11:52:23 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:01:41 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:04:29 <planetmaker> hi :) By still being a holiday. Albeit my last :( 12:06:00 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:24:02 *** Raiz [~raiz@00020a02.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:29:01 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:55:18 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 13:17:18 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 13:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> m'day? 13:45:31 *** zwamkat [~zwamkat@vuursmurf.smurfer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:50:23 *** zwamkat [~zwamkat@vuursmurf.smurfer.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:48 *** kirjs_______ [sid25169@id-25169.charlton.irccloud.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:11:22 *** kirjs_______ [sid25169@charlton.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 14:16:51 *** dustinm` [~dustinm`@105.ip-167-114-152.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:16:55 *** dustinm` [~dustinm`@105.ip-167-114-152.net] has joined #openttd 14:20:32 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:51:46 *** __ln__ [~lauri@2001:2003:50de:2a46:250:43ff:fe01:4a71] has joined #openttd 15:08:15 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:08:18 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:13:08 <planetmaker> o/ 15:13:13 <Alberth> hi hi 15:14:33 <Alberth> did I understand your question to GarryG correctly as in NML accepts use of switch names declared later, but it doesn't work? 15:16:50 *** joho [~joho@takamachi.nanoha.se] has quit [Server closed connection] 15:17:02 *** joho [~joho@takamachi.nanoha.se] has joined #openttd 15:27:36 *** Guest5297 [~Xaroth@250-193-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 15:27:44 *** Raiz [~raiz@00020a02.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3] 15:27:47 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@250-193-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 15:28:28 *** Xaroth is now known as Guest5766 15:31:20 <planetmaker> Alberth, yes, I ask whether he declares items in the correct order, thus first the item or switch definition. And only later referencing it. 15:31:35 <planetmaker> Actually I'm not sure whether that's (still) required 15:31:57 <planetmaker> But I think it is. It sounds like a grfspec limitation (not an NML one) 15:32:23 <Alberth> well, the order isn't that important to me, but I'd really like that NML gives an error instead of not working 15:32:53 <Alberth> nml can reshuffle order, at least theoretically 15:32:59 <planetmaker> well, it gives 'undefined identifier', if I understood correctly. Unfortunately I don't know what modifications were necessary to make it work 15:33:12 <planetmaker> yes, it can. And in some cases even does 15:33:23 <planetmaker> But it can't necessarily break loops :) 15:34:13 <Alberth> likely you cannot even specify that in newgrf, so it's an error already 15:34:38 <planetmaker> yup :) 15:36:14 <Wolf01> http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aRVy66G_460s.jpg well, isn't time to change the official channel language? 15:36:55 <Wolf01> (i think i forgot an "it" somewhere) 15:37:55 <Alberth> hmm, no good substitute comes to mind 15:38:41 <Wolf01> i can count to 2 in german 15:40:00 <Alberth> ah gut, so wir konnen denn Deutsch sprechen, ja 15:40:19 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 15:40:35 <Alberth> guten abend Wormnest 15:41:06 <Wormnest> hi 15:41:46 <Alberth> :) 15:42:09 <planetmaker> :D 15:42:52 <Alberth> in case you didn't read the logs Wormnest, speaking English appears to be dangerous: (17:36:14) Wolf01: http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aRVy66G_460s.jpg well, isn't time to change the official channel language? 15:43:04 <Alberth> so we're considering switching language 15:43:58 <planetmaker> luckily it might be as valid to draw the conclusion that English as your mother tongue is dangerous only ;) 15:44:33 <planetmaker> so both of you are pretty safe, I guess :) 15:44:38 <Wormnest> Well donÂŽt we all die sooner or later, so weÂŽre just postponing our own execution anyway :) 15:45:40 <Wormnest> In any case off to diner now probably with some fat makers ;) 15:45:58 <planetmaker> :) enjoy 15:47:42 <Wolf01> :) 15:52:51 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:21 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:46 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.111.159] has joined #openttd 15:57:25 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:05:00 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:05:13 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 16:22:45 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f7417f8.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 16:27:28 <_dp_> planetmaker, how exactly GS can act in a god mode? Only few things are allowed with OWNER_DEITY. 16:28:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19C66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:29:18 <Alberth> wouldn't it be logical to do those things then? 16:29:27 <Alberth> but it can also act as a company 16:29:35 <planetmaker> _dp_, sure, not everything. But those complement the stuff done as company 16:30:43 <_dp_> actually, only construction it can do with it is building bridges, tunnels and industries 16:31:06 <_dp_> and acting as company implies dealing with stupid stuff like running out of money, authorities, etc 16:31:43 <Alberth> it can also give money, or take it 16:32:02 <planetmaker> ^ exactly. Authorities might be an issue 16:32:58 <_dp_> not just may, it _is_ an isuue, I can't limit town growth in cb because of it 16:34:24 <_dp_> as company that destroys houses gets banned :( 16:36:09 <planetmaker> town growth can be directly controlled by GS, though 16:36:23 <planetmaker> so limiting that via company action is rather stupid thing to do 16:37:09 <_dp_> I'm trying to limit space for houses to prevent growing from outside in 16:37:26 <_dp_> not growth speed 16:38:45 <_dp_> without limit it's just generally better strategy to reserve center for later 16:45:37 <_dp_> and not only it's ugly but also stupidly op for small goals, as you can do it without delivering nearly as much as supposed 16:49:53 <planetmaker> I think I lost you somewhere. If you limit the space for a town to grow you inevitably limit its growth speed 16:54:42 <_dp_> mb, but it's not related to town growth rate, as I want to prevent town from building houses too far from center 16:55:13 <_dp_> so it won't be slowing town growth unless player tries to bring houses somewhere far with bridges or similar stuff 16:56:07 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 16:58:52 <_dp_> btw, gs has also no way to deal with industries, can only build them but not remove or anything 16:59:05 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:59:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:03:06 <planetmaker> indeed, it seems 17:03:16 <planetmaker> _dp_, I think that's an area where we gladly accept patches 17:03:53 <planetmaker> especially when you write a GS, writing a short API extension might come in handy and help and have good chances :) 17:04:16 <planetmaker> with industries... there should be two ways probably: back-talk to the NewGRF so that it closes it and a hard removal 17:04:25 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-220-130.tal.is] has joined #openttd 17:06:08 <_dp_> cool, then I'll do some :) 17:07:34 <_dp_> not rly using GS usually since I prefer to do everything directly with DoCommand but can do some simple just to showcase it 17:08:28 <_dp_> back-talking to newgrf is some other patch iirc (json-smth)? 17:09:06 <_dp_> actually, don't think it's a good idea to involve newgrfs in controlling the game 17:10:14 <planetmaker> something along json was suggested / discussed somewhen, iirc. But I don't know the discussion's result anymore 17:10:30 <planetmaker> _dp_, industries *are* controlled via NewGRF though. So there's no way around that 17:10:42 <planetmaker> if you want to meddle with those 17:13:16 *** __ln___ [~lauri@2001:2003:50de:2a46:250:43ff:fe01:4a71] has joined #openttd 17:13:17 *** __ln__ [~lauri@2001:2003:50de:2a46:250:43ff:fe01:4a71] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:02 <_dp_> damn those newgrfs :( 17:16:35 <_dp_> so. bos 17:16:52 <_dp_> outh, hit enter accidentaly) 17:18:27 <_dp_> so, basically there is no way to, for example, allow changing industry production without newgrfs because, theoretically, there could be newgrf that controls it? 17:19:10 <planetmaker> yes 17:19:23 <planetmaker> that's where it needs the interface between NewGRF and GS 17:19:32 <planetmaker> that a GS can ask the industry to change production 17:22:04 <_dp_> aha, and some fallback stuff to do that if no grf answers the call %) 17:24:33 *** __ln___ [~lauri@2001:2003:50de:2a46:250:43ff:fe01:4a71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:17 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 17:27:34 *** __ln__ [~lauri@2001:2003:f22a:4600:250:43ff:fe01:4a71] has joined #openttd 17:29:26 <Terkhen> hello 17:29:36 <_dp_> at least can remove industry... though technically it's CmdLandscapeClear which can also do a lot of other stuff 17:30:19 <planetmaker> :) 17:30:25 <planetmaker> hi T :) 17:30:51 <_dp_> but don't see any harm in enabling it for OWNER_DEITY... with patching it everywhere for that ofc 17:33:28 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 17:33:39 *** Ttech [~ttech@is.in.the.madhacker.biz] has joined #openttd 17:35:03 <_dp_> meh, that probably stands true for most of construction stuff)) 17:35:14 *** fjb is now known as Guest5786 17:35:15 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:36:11 <_dp_> everith that doesn't build smth that requires owner 17:36:17 <_dp_> *everything 17:36:48 <planetmaker> _dp_, constructing rail as deity... doesn't quite work :) 17:36:54 <planetmaker> or must not 17:37:12 <_dp_> it requires owner, but removing... why not? 17:37:19 <planetmaker> oh, removing... yes 17:37:25 <planetmaker> ufo :) 17:38:05 <_dp_> although it may be useful to be able to construct stuff for specific company as deity 17:38:29 <planetmaker> well, you can do that as company and give the money 17:38:54 <planetmaker> what might be useful is means to set the authority rating for companies 17:39:34 <planetmaker> there might have been reason to not implement that, but I don't know which. And I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed by GS in deity mode 17:39:49 <_dp_> yeah, that definitely will be the first thing I do :) 17:41:24 <_dp_> though I'd really like to be able to just disable that authority stuff completely :) 17:41:41 <_dp_> not very fond of blocking mechanics in ttd 17:42:01 *** Guest5786 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:12 *** Extrems [super@presper.ipv6.extremscorner.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 17:45:32 *** Extrems [super@presper.ipv6.extremscorner.org] has joined #openttd 17:45:54 <planetmaker> _dp_, I don't think there need be way to *disable* it. A GS could simply get means to either set it or to add a value to it 17:46:09 <planetmaker> both make sense 17:49:17 <Alberth> the idea is exactly to be annoying :) 17:50:18 <planetmaker> well, sure. But with the option to set it, it opens new possibilities for GS: to create events, both positive and negative 17:50:33 <planetmaker> and to simulate god-like building stuff in the name of a company as bonus 17:50:49 <planetmaker> of course it can be (ab)used to disable local authority rating, too. 17:50:49 <_dp_> there already is a setting to change it's severity, just no option to turn off for some reason. And I'd use it if there were as usually have more fun things to do than building trees ;) 17:51:43 <planetmaker> and indeed, logically there's no reason why there's no setting to disable it entirely - except that it's about one of the very few challanges left intrinsically to OpenTTD which cannot be ignored 17:53:50 <_dp_> for regular openttd yes, but I only play on goal servers, so have plenty of challenges, authority is just a nuisance in this case. 17:55:57 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-98-052.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 17:56:00 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:56 *** cursarion [xrs@adishbestservedworldly.xrs.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 17:56:58 *** cursarion [xrs@adishbestservedworldly.xrs.fi] has joined #openttd 18:03:02 <_dp_> hm, if I introduce new commands in patch, should I append them to the end of a list to preserve numeration or insert to where they logically belong? 18:03:20 *** Ram-Z [~Ram-Z@rmz.io] has quit [Server closed connection] 18:03:41 <_dp_> both ways would work I think... 18:05:04 *** Ram-Z [~Ram-Z@rmz.io] has joined #openttd 18:09:02 *** Pensacola [~quassel@88.159.51.52] has joined #openttd 18:18:30 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 18:27:16 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:35 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:26:34 <Taede> evenink 19:26:54 <planetmaker> o/ 19:28:21 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:28:33 *** Pensacola [~quassel@88.159.51.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:18 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:50:13 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 19:52:16 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=73913 is peculiar... 19:53:30 *** Raiz [~raiz@00020a02.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:54:40 <frosch123> well, either that guy uses a preprocessor, and then should also post the macros 19:54:54 <frosch123> or the whole code is bollocks 19:55:11 <frosch123> no point in guessing from that code 19:55:35 <frosch123> at work there was some source code that threw warning on compilarion, which noone could explain and made no sense 19:56:12 <frosch123> then more than a year later someone randomly discovered that some douchbag had a "#define if(a) ..." in some headerfile 19:56:46 <frosch123> which turned regular "if" into magic 19:56:47 <planetmaker> ho hi :) 19:56:58 <planetmaker> frosch123, I get that very same with that exact code snippet 19:57:07 <planetmaker> I can reproduce it with that minimal example 19:57:33 <planetmaker> (just using some numbers for the engineIDs in the first switch is required to reproduce it) 19:57:38 <frosch123> so you mean with those identifiers instead of values? 19:58:18 <frosch123> i.e. instead of "binary operator requires ..." it should say "undefined identifier ..."? 19:58:19 <planetmaker> hm? I mean as-is. It's not the identifier names which matter. I checked that first thing 19:59:16 <planetmaker> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pluvfpqiw 20:00:57 <planetmaker> but I wonder that NML warns that both switches aren't used 20:02:29 <frosch123> i assume it's the "str2number" that breaks it? 20:02:34 <frosch123> i.e. does it work with some other value? 20:03:26 <planetmaker> if I replace that by a 4-byte number it's the same 20:04:03 <planetmaker> also with that whole switch disabled 20:04:51 <planetmaker> oh.... it's a *property*. Not a graphics block where he tries to call it! 20:05:25 <planetmaker> so yes, it must fail. But bad error message :) 20:08:19 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A19D50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:09:03 <frosch123> details :) 20:09:41 <frosch123> is there even a reason to distinguish properties and graphics? or should that get dropped in nml 0.5? 20:10:18 <frosch123> i suspect there are some arcane corner cases, like refittability with capacity > 0 :p 20:13:17 <planetmaker> It helps in definition of default cargoes, I *think*. But honestly I forgot and the distinction seems artificial. NMLC could simply use the default value as the property value 20:13:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19C66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:13:35 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 20:14:10 <planetmaker> I created https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7810 20:20:55 <frosch123> night 20:20:58 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f7417f8.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:27:47 <_dp_> omg, there already is a method to get authority rating but for some reason it returns discrete values instead of just returning rating value as it is %) 20:27:49 <Wolf01> new feature for ottd: http://store.steampowered.com/app/352130/?snr=1_7_7_weeklongdeals_150_3 trains with rocket launchers which destroy industries 20:31:37 <planetmaker> _dp_, yes... but authority rating is not % internally either but a value -1000 ... +something 20:32:04 <planetmaker> it might make sense to expose that... but some people might want to discuss that 20:35:18 <_dp_> yeah, it seems like gs api tries to avoid exposing internal stuff but in fact that only makes it less useful 20:35:48 <_dp_> same stuff with growth rate, converting it do days and adding some bugs in a process %) 20:38:29 <planetmaker> well. The point in *not* exposing internals is that makes OpenTTD modifications much easier when there's a simple API 20:38:50 <planetmaker> then you can modify internals as you like. And simply convert the API values to the new internal system 20:39:16 <planetmaker> Thus keeping API something different without exposing implementation details allows better future-proffness 20:39:16 <_dp_> well, then I think I'll just make setrating accepts same discrete values and leave arguing to those who care... 20:40:46 <_dp_> idk, I don't see any future for gs, so much future-proof it is now :P 20:41:20 <planetmaker> well, that's your choice then 20:42:43 <planetmaker> though I think the GS and AI interfaces work quite well. And extensions are always possible 20:43:33 <planetmaker> However exposing internals (like the detailed values for authority ratings) will need much more careful consideration than just means to set the rating via the existing interface values (those values which also the player sees) 20:46:41 <_dp_> I thought GS is a great thing before I actually tried to use it :) 20:47:18 <_dp_> it's good to be careful with api but not at the cost of reducing functionality 20:48:13 <_dp_> like, nobody came up with a good way to expose TOWN_IS_GROWING flag, so there is no way to know whether it is growing or not %) 20:51:02 <planetmaker> is not? 20:51:17 <_dp_> and the way gs is integrated, executing in external loop, once per frame with one command per frame limit... so much hassle to work around compared to just patching. 20:51:23 <planetmaker> to my understanding the GS sets explicitly how fast a town shall grow. And then OpenTTD ensures just that? 20:52:08 <_dp_> you can get growth_rate, but if town is on normal growth there is no way to know whether it is actually growing or not 20:52:55 <planetmaker> well, please implement such query function then 20:53:31 <planetmaker> There was never said that "this is it and no more". On the contrary: it was only always that implemented which someone asked for. And which then someone cared to actually implement 20:53:33 <_dp_> that even was discussed in flyspray somewhere, yet nothing was decided 20:53:44 <planetmaker> uhu 20:56:04 <planetmaker> sometimes discussions need time to hang and ripe till it's worth to pick them up again by possibly shining a new light on them :) 20:57:14 <_dp_> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5934 21:02:10 <Wipe> what's the reason to disallow following vehicle on zoom > x4? 21:02:33 <planetmaker> there's no zoom > x4 21:03:01 <planetmaker> _dp_, I see... 21:05:01 <Wipe> ugh, i mean max zoomout; i can scroll to vehicle but not follow it 21:07:03 *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:07:14 <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth 21:07:14 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 2 hours, 20 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <andythenorth> he came, he went 21:07:23 *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 21:13:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:20:56 <planetmaker> _dp_, I think you might have had a chance if you actually followed-up on zuu's comments... (mind, I never was involved with the API, though) 21:22:56 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has joined #openttd 21:24:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19D50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:09 <FLHerne> Wipe: Huh, hadn't noticed that 21:26:42 <FLHerne> Presumably because redrawing the whole of such a large area of map each second would take too long 21:27:07 <FLHerne> *74th of a second 21:28:59 <_dp_> planetmaker, well, I'm not going to pick up developing The_Dude's CB script so not particularly interested in that flag, just mentioned it for example 21:29:49 <_dp_> would definitely need it for standalone script, but as long as I'm only concerned with running servers I don't need any getters, just stuff that actually does smth. 21:39:06 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 21:45:31 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-98-052.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the new forum version still has that bug that doesn't reset the "unviewed posts" icon after a thread was moved 21:49:20 *** Raiz [~raiz@00020a02.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3] 22:08:21 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:09:39 *** wito_ [~wito@totlandweb.info] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:16:46 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45:37 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 23:01:24 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:05:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BED8.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:41 <Wolf01> 'night 23:08:47 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:11:28 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:14 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd