Log for #openttd on 30th November 2015:
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00:09:52  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:48:32  <drac_boy> hi
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01:07:25  <drac_boy> btw heres something you may have never heard of before :)
01:08:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i was perfectly fine never hearing about that...
01:12:27  <drac_boy> heh, well I'm not too surprised. also re that it seem to had been specifically an usa-only thing (seeing that even some uk locomotives did run on anthracite coal but still retained a standard cab)
01:18:04  <drac_boy> oh yeah eddi sorry about my memory but in the middle of the long chat earlier on you mentioned about some country having all-electric coaches in 1911 .. which country did you mentioned again?
01:18:35  <Eddi|zuHause> bavaria
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01:21:51  <Eddi|zuHause>
01:26:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it says the engine has electric heating, but doesn't say which wagons went with it. i'm assuming they had some :p
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01:28:30  <drac_boy> bavaria sure had a lot of interesting things (and now I have to add early electric-heated coaches to that too heh)
01:28:35  <drac_boy> :)
01:30:09  <Eddi|zuHause> bavaria always has to do things differently from everybody else...
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01:32:15  <drac_boy> well the S3/6 is one of my favorites from bavaria steam era :)
01:33:16  <drac_boy> although about 'differently' I do have to so agree when I look at...umm....THIS again
01:33:56  <drac_boy> its almost like a tram locomotive smushed into a coach that had another level welded onto it (it doesn't look so one-piece)
01:34:54  <drac_boy> (and yeah I know...who put the boiler in sideway? hehe)
01:42:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's particularly rare for this kind of vehicle
01:43:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd rather ask myself who found it fit to build a model of that :p
01:43:53  <drac_boy> heh
01:44:18  <drac_boy> well at least tri-level only exists in fantasy and maybe its better off left that way ;) (yes 'fantasy' does cover the Knight Bus thank you)
01:44:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the sideways boiler
01:45:20  <sim-al2> I'm sure firing that must have been fun
01:45:51  <sim-al2> Doesn't leave much room for boiler tubes either
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01:46:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like 3m wide?
01:46:17  <drac_boy> sim-a12 it depends..could be either its got very short flues with the firebox right on other side ... or some L-ish arrangement
01:46:38  <drac_boy> if it had been a donkey engine we wouldn't be seeing the boiler frontend at all
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01:48:03  <drac_boy> heres a bit more believable (well at least to some) doubledeck tram compliant with a donkey engine
01:48:29  <drac_boy> (hm..hard to tell tho..bit dark .. the search term said donkey tho)
01:49:55  <sim-al2> The wiki page says the boiler was rated for 100hp, and the vehicle wieghes 28 tonnes...
01:50:42  <drac_boy> this one looks like a much better photo (even if no wagon)
01:51:48  <drac_boy> sim-a12 well its a rather early date so I would have to say 100hp sounds about ok as thats probably just as fast if not faster than a stagecoach horse
01:54:06  <drac_boy> even some of the sentinel/alike steam railcars were not exactly speedy (without overheating issues as some went)
01:57:13  <drac_boy> looks like 30-40km/h is quoted for some uk examples. and the site lists that the first several sentinel railcars were listed as 100hp (same number again eh?)
02:11:28  <drac_boy> sim-a12 if you want a big wtf moment when it comes to boilers, I present you this
02:11:35  <drac_boy> thats ... three boilers .. seriously :-s
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02:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> so they split it to fit bigger wheels?
02:29:29  <Eddi|zuHause> almost looks like a cubistic painting with skewed perspective
02:45:41  <drac_boy> think I'm going sleep soon, you two have fun anyhow
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11:35:32  <Wolf01> o/
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11:46:19  <Mazur> \o
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13:01:08  <Wolf01> where's andy? i think i found cat
13:06:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the danger there is that the cat misinterprets this as a pit of sand
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13:18:27  <Mazur> You underestimate the basic intelligence of cats.  That would neither hide it nor mask ht scent.
13:23:26  <Wolf01> or they just leave "it" in plain sight in the middle of the room
13:24:26  <Eddi|zuHause> one of my cats had the habit of peeing into flower pots
13:25:07  <Wolf01> mine had the habit of peeing on the wc, the base of the wc
13:30:29  <Mazur> You should not have missed that often.
13:30:40  <Mazur> ;-)
13:31:36  <Wolf01> that was the first thought, everybody on my family negated and then we found the culprit
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13:39:25  <Mazur> Still, the cat would not do that unless a. the sandbox wasn't cleaned often enough and b. it had not detected a sense it was a place of elimination.
13:39:57  <Mazur> And c. it had no free access to the outside world.
13:40:56  <Mazur> Ever since my parents installed a cat-flap in the backdoor, the litterbox only got used in terrible weather.
13:41:22  <Eddi|zuHause> we have no litterbox, the cats just go outside
13:41:42  <Mazur> There you have it.
13:42:01  <Wolf01> b for sure, he is really lazy and he started to do it when he figured out what we do there, then we started to keep the door shut so he was forced to go outside
13:42:17  <Eddi|zuHause> well, we used to have one, but it's just more work than benefit
13:42:27  <Mazur> True.
13:42:46  <Mazur> Especially since a catflap eliminates the need.
13:46:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the main trouble with the litterbox was that these little grains don't stay in the box, and distribute themselves over the wholehouse
13:48:21  <Mazur> Breakfast.   AFK/
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18:23:18  <planetmaker> o/
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18:37:20  <Alberth> moin
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18:43:22  <frosch123> the polroad grf is way too complicated
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18:45:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27459 /trunk/src/lang (basque.txt spanish.txt) (2015-11-30 19:45:13 +0100 )
18:45:24  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:25  <DorpsGek> basque - 43 changes by Thadah
18:45:26  <DorpsGek> spanish - 3 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
18:45:44  <planetmaker> what does the grf do, frosch123 ?
18:46:22  <frosch123> no idea, but it uses a shitload of macros, so you cannot read anything
18:46:30  <frosch123> and the .nml file is committed to the repo
18:46:37  <frosch123> so i can never truest the makefile to really update it
18:46:44  <frosch123> because the repo one might be newer
18:47:39  <planetmaker> meh
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19:20:49  <V453000> @seen andythenorth
19:20:49  <DorpsGek> V453000: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 23 hours, 30 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <andythenorth> _that_ won’t look good in ottd
19:21:37  <frosch123> got your answer?
19:21:59  <V453000> NO. :( I AM SAD AS SHIT
19:22:18  <V453000> ok it isnt so bad :)
19:22:23  <V453000> I am just wondering if andy has a list of ALL of FIRS cargoes
19:22:34  <frosch123> yes
19:22:36  <V453000> including the java bullshit and whatnot
19:22:45  <V453000> cargolist in grf?
19:22:48  <frosch123>
19:22:53  <Alberth> newgrf specs?
19:23:07  <frosch123> oh, it doesn't list the cargolabel
19:23:11  <frosch123> how weird
19:23:24  <Alberth> not of interest to a user
19:23:32  <V453000> he
19:23:52  <V453000> lets see if I can find the tt wiki cargo page
19:23:56  <frosch123> <- well, one file per cargo
19:24:24  <V453000> yeah
19:24:30  <frosch123> Alberth: andy locked himself out of the wiki
19:24:40  <V453000> ? :d
19:24:42  <frosch123> so, no updated firs stuff in newgrfspecs :)
19:24:50  <V453000> what why?
19:25:15  <frosch123> wikipedia has this bullshit going on, that not all characters work in usernames and passwords
19:25:36  <Zuu> Each file have cargo_labe = '...', so a grep or two or vim macro to sort out just what you want.
19:25:38  <frosch123> you can change stuff on forums, which the wiki then does not understand
19:26:15  <frosch123> V453000:
19:26:23  <frosch123> there is actually a coding page in the firs docs :)
19:32:41  <V453000> aha!
19:32:53  <V453000> thanks
19:33:02  <V453000> hm looks like I am only missing nitrates in my graphics
19:33:13  <frosch123> really?
19:33:24  <frosch123> do you have pyrite ore?
19:33:46  <V453000> WTF is pyrite ore :D
19:33:51  <V453000> ok I dont have that either
19:33:52  <frosch123> exactly
19:33:57  <frosch123> noone knows :)
19:34:01  <V453000> great
19:34:03  <frosch123> it's an andy thing
19:34:04  <V453000> that is just perfect XD
19:34:14  <V453000> I will add some random colour sprites which didnt fit anywher eelse
19:34:17  <frosch123> apparently you can google it
19:34:18  <frosch123> but still :p
19:35:21  <V453000> looks like gold
19:35:28  <frosch123> lol
19:35:59  <frosch123> andy was debating for days, whether to add gold, and then settled for pyrite ore :)
19:36:23  <planetmaker> :D
19:36:31  <V453000> that sounds like his logic
19:36:35  <V453000> XD
19:39:41  <Rubidium> isn't pyrite some sort of fake gold?
19:40:14  <Rubidium> and probably pyrite could have higher yields than gold
19:42:56  <planetmaker> Rubidium, it is exactly that
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19:43:20  <Phreeze> hi
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19:48:52  <frosch123> could have been andy :)
19:49:50  <frosch123> planetmaker: did you know pyrite in advance, or did you look it up?
19:50:10  <V453000> I do remember pyrite from chemistry
19:50:11  <V453000> but
19:50:12  <V453000> ...
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19:58:29  <Zuu> frosch123: _dp_ made a new patch. (a week ago) In his comment he says _NORMAL is needed because growth rate of 0 is a valid value.
19:58:53  <Zuu> It might be internally even though in general a rate of 0 is a bit strange.
19:59:01  <planetmaker> frosch123, I know what pyrite is, yes. I knew it approximately before, but I needed to look up the details
19:59:10  <_dp_> :)
19:59:56  <planetmaker> basically my knowledge extended prior to 'some quite common mineral in the continental crust'
20:05:54  <Zuu> _dp_: As for patch splitting, I would usually cut out parts of the .patch file and apply. Manually fix up what remains. Then 'hg qrefresh' or commit it in git, then you continue like that and make hg or git record the different stages of the files. Having done that you can step backwards/forward in the patch history and produce patch-files for each step. In hg you can just grap .hg/patches/*.patch. :-)
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20:07:50  <_dp_> Zuu, so by splitting you mean more like having patch history?
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20:08:36  <Zuu> Eg. something like this:
20:10:45  <Zuu> The formula change you made is located in 3 places. While you are right one of the places do change location in a differnt part of your patch, it is different changes/actions to the code.
20:14:10  <_dp_> Zuu, hm, I may try it next time, did't know hg could do this. Still not sure if that would really help understanding as changes will be easier but there will be more of them and some could even get changed again before path completion.
20:15:43  <_dp_> Also speaking of this particular patch it's not how I developed it. I created a separate file with tests and worked there until it was passing them all, then just copy-pasted code and did final testing in ttd.
20:15:44  <Zuu> For hg, you like to lookup "hg queues" or "mq". For git you use a branch and if you want to change something you make a new branch or so.
20:17:27  <Alberth> _dp_: that's normal procedure, first you figure out what you need to make it work. Once that works, figure out how to apply the changes into openttd such that each step makes sense, and everything keeps working
20:18:01  <Alberth> both times you start from unmodified openttd
20:19:41  <Alberth> I usually keep the working version in one directory, and an unmodified openttd in another directory (with VCS under it), then copy/paste small parts of the change to form a new commit for the 2nd time. Commit each of that patches to the vcs, and you'll end up with a nice queue to get the patch into openttd in a logical way
20:20:24  <Alberth> especially useful if you have an editor that can show diff between two windows, while allowing you to edit
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20:28:26  <Zuu> Alberth: Is that an (to me) unknown vim feature?
20:29:22  <Zuu> I know there is vimdiff. Hmm. with autosave enabled that could work. But even better to compare the file streams without saving.
20:30:57  <andythenorth> o/
20:31:08  <Zuu> Hello andy
20:31:17  <Wolf01> o/
20:31:39  <frosch123> °\
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20:45:13  <drac_boy> hi
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21:01:19  <Alberth> vimdiff is a normal editing mode, that you can also setup from within the editor, or from the command-line
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21:02:26  <Alberth> I have a script that opens a window for the same file in two repository directories
21:03:50  <Alberth> ie    cd new_repo; open_files ../old_repo src/file1
21:05:22  <Zuu> IIRC I have used vimdiff to view patch files or maybe to diff two files  from Windows right click menu, but really I haven't tried to use it while editing.
21:05:36  <Zuu> Thanks for the hint.
21:07:04  <Alberth> gvim -c ":diffsplit olddir/file" newdir/file
21:07:34  <Alberth> does horizontal split instead of vertical split so long lines fit better :)
21:07:46  <frosch123> if you know vimdimm.... do you also know how to exit vimdiff and make hg insert normal conlfict markers?
21:08:14  <frosch123> i know how to disable it in .hgrc
21:08:33  <frosch123> but i do not know what to do on machines which are not mine, when i suddenly end up in a vimdiff session :p
21:09:59  <Zuu> It is interesting how one can always learn more about vim.
21:10:14  <frosch123> more scary stuff, yes :)
21:10:47  <Alberth> hg help merge-tools    <-- says stuff about HGMERGE env var
21:11:12  <frosch123> Alberth: yes, but at that point it is already too late :p
21:11:19  <drac_boy> heh all I know about vim is to...reboot the system to get back to console? :->
21:11:42  <andythenorth> :q
21:11:43  <Alberth> drac_boy:  ever tried  :wq <enter>
21:11:50  <Alberth> or :q! even
21:11:53  <frosch123> Alberth: how evil
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21:12:08  <frosch123> yes, "ESC :q!" is what you need to know
21:12:23  * andythenorth wonders how to compile this rivers thing
21:12:29  <drac_boy> or how about just ctrl+q? ;)
21:12:36  <andythenorth> eh, it should go on Truebrain’s new compile farm thing
21:12:39  <Zuu> :q! - The vim version of rm -rf /    ?
21:12:40  <Alberth> or learn vim properly instead of whatever broken editor you use now :p
21:13:04  <planetmaker> :q! means "getta out here quickly without mess"
21:13:07  <Alberth> drac_boy: that's a shell thing rather than a vim thing
21:13:07  <drac_boy> vim's the broken one :P
21:13:16  <Zuu> Of course :q! only abort what you did in that file. So it will not break your system though. :-)
21:13:24  <Alberth> nope, vim just has a very steep learning curve
21:13:25  <drac_boy> but anyway nevermind that ... just get back to your normal topic above ;)
21:13:35  <frosch123> andythenorth: hg init --mq; unzip stuff into .hg/patches; hg qpush -a; ./configure; make
21:13:47  <andythenorth> ho thanks
21:14:00  <frosch123> make sure to replace "series" during unzip
21:14:01  <andythenorth> I would never have figured out .hg/patches on my own :P
21:15:04  <Zuu> I usually chmod +r on it and then scp it to /~zuu/../ to update a patch series.
21:16:22  <Zuu> .hg/patches is one of the things that make hg queues work nice for pereparing patches to projects using a central trunk.
21:16:58  <Alberth> euhm, every project has one trunk, hasn't it? :)
21:16:58  * andythenorth wishes people would just use github :P
21:17:18  <andythenorth> all this ‘make a queue, get a zip’ stuff is high friction
21:17:45  <andythenorth> when fonso wanted to share cdist stuff with me, he just gave me the github
21:17:58  <Zuu> The problem with queues is when you start trying to share them.
21:18:14  <andythenorth> github, feature branches
21:18:25  <andythenorth> it’s a solved problem :x
21:18:27  <andythenorth> :)
21:18:30  <Alberth> hg clone repos
21:18:34  <Zuu> I have had problems with branches when I try to work with them from more than one computer.
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21:18:58  <Alberth> hg branches don't work if that's what you mean :)
21:19:09  <frosch123> andythenorth:
21:19:13  <Alberth> name space conflicts iirc
21:19:26  <andythenorth> frosch123: yes, it’s very true
21:19:54  <Zuu> I was refering to git branches. Never seriously tried hg braches.
21:20:53  <Zuu> :-) @xkcd
21:21:14  <Alberth> ah, git has too many steps, I always miss one step at some point during the day
21:21:30  <Alberth> and things end up at the wrong place
21:22:29  <Alberth> good night
21:22:35  <Zuu> Night
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21:23:11  <frosch123> andythenorth: see andy, i have noone to fix my git checkouts
21:23:18  <frosch123> but i can do it for svn and hg
21:23:38  <andythenorth> :P
21:24:02  <andythenorth> I have yet to actually break git, and I am provably someone who breaks things
21:26:19  <Zuu> Do you work your own in git from a single directory on your single computer?
21:27:21  <Zuu> When having multiple checkouts (on same computer or different one), I find things start to get interesting. Especially if it involves branches and also other people. :-)
21:32:18  <Zuu> good night
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21:34:00  <andythenorth> zuu has gone :P
21:34:17  * andythenorth works on multiple repos with multiple people, with hundreds of branches
21:36:40  <frosch123> oh, yes, if everyone keeps their own branch, you never run into merge conflicts
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