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joined #openttd 09:17:48 <Wolf01> moin 09:18:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:18:12 <andythenorth> o/ 09:18:17 <Wolf01> o/ 09:18:37 * andythenorth been busy 09:18:39 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/ecdf5965409c/entry/src/graphics/baby_boat_0.png 09:18:49 <andythenorth> repainting NARS sprites 09:19:06 <andythenorth> V453000 yo 09:20:15 <Wolf01> just wow, lot of details 09:20:31 <andythenorth> mostly just patterns of pixels 09:20:35 <andythenorth> details not really there :) 09:20:36 <andythenorth> fake 09:21:38 <Wolf01> I can see the little engineer waving his hand from the window... or better, it's static because not a gif, but he's there 09:21:46 *** Sacro [~ben@000127ee.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:22:32 <andythenorth> ha 09:23:54 * andythenorth biab 09:23:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:56:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 10:06:05 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 10:06:31 *** Sacro [~ben@ns220925.ip-188-165-246.eu] has joined #openttd 11:10:41 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:10:44 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 11:17:32 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:43 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:24:08 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 11:24:10 <drac_boy> hi 11:38:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:00:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 12:03:45 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:11:51 *** day 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Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:09:58 <argoneus> good morning train friends`~~ 13:11:30 *** founder_ [~founder@182.242.147.209] has joined #openttd 13:11:31 *** openbu [~founder@182.242.117.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:27:28 *** founder__ [~founder@116.249.229.184] has joined #openttd 13:30:17 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:34:06 *** founder_ [~founder@182.242.147.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:52:18 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:57:09 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 14:00:21 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:04:33 <Wolf01> meh, no C&O H8 or M1 for trainz :( 14:09:41 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@99-110-190-158.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:21 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 14:39:32 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:01:09 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 15:08:01 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:10:07 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:3d37:a724:2dc8:4655] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:18:00 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:18:03 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:29:39 <andythenorth> lo Alberth 15:29:54 <Alberth> moin 15:31:20 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-151-9.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:40:51 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:45:38 <Wolf01> mmh, something does not match between my instructions and the pieces of the software :| 15:48:13 <Alberth> unfortunately, not the exception to the rule, I am afraid 15:48:58 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:50:36 <Alberth> oh, great andy, a nicely coloured engine 15:51:06 * andythenorth had fun drawing that 15:52:09 <Wolf01> software curves have the wrong radius 15:53:46 <Wolf01> or the 2 pieces with the connections have the wrong length 15:58:19 <Wolf01> meh they use facebook as a support forum :| 16:09:50 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 16:16:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:23:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 16:24:31 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.106.189] has joined #openttd 16:24:44 <Wolf01> "In general, most of the track plans that are published in books or magazines (especially old ones) are initially assembled with real tracks and then are transferred to paper drawings." 16:25:17 <Wolf01> so, I can't do anything else than fix the layout by myself 16:26:28 <Alberth> find some real tracks, and assemble the layout :p 16:26:38 <Wolf01> also, next time (never) I should purchase a well known brand, and not one which seem to have made only my one :P 16:27:23 <Alberth> might give better value for money 16:28:10 <Wolf01> this one could have my age, and if not, at least 25 years 16:39:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1921D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:40:36 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:43:06 <andythenorth> Wolf01: what are you doing? :) 16:43:38 <Wolf01> digitalising my diorama 16:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> my experience is that physical tracks are way more forgiving with inaccuracies than the programs allow ;) 16:45:23 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:45:41 * andythenorth agrees 16:45:50 <andythenorth> based on what my kids are doing 16:45:50 <Wolf01> yes, but it's off by 3cm :P 16:46:01 <andythenorth> use brio, that can handle 3cm gap :P 16:46:03 <Wolf01> and the diamond crossover does not fit 16:46:35 <andythenorth> Wolf01: now you are making me guilty :P 16:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> 3cm sounds about right :p 16:46:43 <andythenorth> I had a plan to build a small switching layout 16:46:54 <andythenorth> so I carefully bought a lot of ebay âbargains' 16:47:09 <andythenorth> which now go round and round on my kids circle track 16:47:12 <Wolf01> lego or model thing? 16:47:19 <andythenorth> HO american trains 16:47:25 <Wolf01> wow 16:51:29 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:55:33 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f049176108.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 17:05:30 *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@200-96-104-251.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 17:08:12 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-174.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:12:17 *** Clockworker [Clockworke@200-96-104-251.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:46 *** qwebirc44411 [~oftc-webi@h-72-9.a163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:20:27 <Wolf01> uhm, now that I noticed... where's __ln__? 17:24:06 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 17:24:20 <qwebirc44411> Currently every train i have is ran by 2 SH40 engines, and I just learned to make the T.I.M engines. Using autoreplace, I seem to get 2 pairs of T.I.M engines, lengthening all my trains by 2 wagons. Is there any way to replace all my trains in a way that sells off the 2 SH40 engines and replaces them with one pair of T.I.M engines? 17:25:07 <Wolf01> that's tricky 17:26:45 <qwebirc44411> alrighty, i'll start doing it manually 17:27:38 <AdmiralKew> I'd add more cargo wagons and lengthen the platforms and just keep the 2x TIM engine pairs 17:29:24 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 17:29:39 <V453000> qwebirc44411: in the autoreplace window, there is a button "remove wagons" 17:29:41 <V453000> on / off 17:29:55 <V453000> it will remove any excessive wagons 17:29:56 <qwebirc44411> yeah i want to remove engines rather than wagons though 17:29:59 <Wolf01> but removes wagons 17:30:00 <V453000> ah 17:30:01 <V453000> ok 17:30:04 <V453000> sorry 17:30:06 <andythenorth> rule based replacements :P 17:30:21 <andythenorth> for vehicle type x, add n vehicle of type y 17:30:28 * andythenorth often wants that 17:30:50 <Wolf01> like when I wanted to convert all my steam trains to diesel... I cursed a lot because of cabeese 17:31:14 <andythenorth> I tried handling that in Iron Horse, but replacing cabeese is meh 17:31:17 <andythenorth> canât remember why 17:31:19 <andythenorth> oh cargo 17:31:27 <andythenorth> canât replace if cargo bits donât match 17:31:44 <V453000> I dont believe that is the case 17:31:52 <andythenorth> try it 17:32:14 <V453000> you only can't replace if coal wagon wants to replace to a wagon which can't carry coal 17:32:17 <Wolf01> and I couldn't even trim the wagons because diesel engines were shorter than steam locos+tender 17:32:20 <V453000> but caboose -> coal wagon works I think 17:32:21 <andythenorth> e.g. Cabeese -> Coal Hoppers, no dice 17:32:26 <V453000> :0 17:32:28 <andythenorth> maybe I did it wrong :D 17:32:40 <andythenorth> dunno, I could look in logs for Frosch telling me not to be silly 17:33:08 <V453000> I thought in NARS it worked, but maybe it was not autoreplaced, it was always removed by the remove wagons function 17:33:21 <V453000> but the remove wagons removes from the front and I always put cabeese at the end, so idk 17:36:28 <_johannes> http://imgur.com/jZZ1fZy -> I still don't get how YAPF works. If a train is in 'Paderheim', with its nose towards 'Paderheim Ost', and should drive to the left of Paderheim, YAPF says there is no such path 17:36:41 <_johannes> I guess it's because A* does not go back? 17:36:43 <andythenorth> remove wagons usually works for me 17:36:51 <andythenorth> seems magical, but I donât ask 17:37:27 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:38:30 <_johannes> michi_cc do you know ? 17:38:54 <V453000> when I played with original trains and used short trains in the start, for 5 tile trains with 2 engines I always built engine - 5 wagons - engine - 3 wagons 17:39:16 <V453000> after autoreplace it becomes engine head - 3 wagons - engine head - engine head - 3 wagons - engine head 17:39:21 <V453000> so, from the front :) 17:42:43 <V453000> that sounds weird _johannes ... did you check if all parts are electrified or something? 17:42:57 <_johannes> V453000: yep, all electrified 17:43:38 <_johannes> V453000: of course, the train found the way back ingame (it calls YAPF in both directions), but imo YAPF into the right direction should also lead the train into the left direction, finally 17:43:40 <V453000> does the train say there is no path, or does it just proceed the other way as in doesn't reverse in the station? 17:44:14 <_johannes> the train reverses with no problems, just the algorithm does not :-) 17:44:55 <V453000> aha 17:45:06 <V453000> too deep for me to understand :P 17:45:35 <NGC3982> Many years ago 17:45:54 <NGC3982> I for some reason put "too deep" as a hilight trigger 17:46:24 <_johannes> I wonder why the A* does refuse to turn around in stations... 17:46:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6D73C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:46:29 *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@200-96-104-251.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 17:46:40 <_johannes> instead, the algorithm is being called twice in each station, which makes it slow 17:46:45 <_johannes> (even ingame) 17:48:08 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:48:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:51:50 <Alberth> trains only leave once at each station 17:52:16 <Alberth> it's way more expensive if you run backward computations all the time 17:53:17 *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@200-96-104-251.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:48 <_johannes> Alberth: you mean the path finder only leaves once? 17:56:34 <Alberth> a train starts running from a station exactly one time, before arriving at the next station 17:57:06 <Alberth> so at the very first tick, you have 2 searches 17:57:27 <_johannes> yes, by calling YAPF twice 17:57:55 <Alberth> now compare that with a double search every tile or every tick (I forgot how often it gets called) while the train is on route 17:58:20 <_johannes> no no, I don't mean that 17:58:27 <_johannes> only on every station 17:59:10 <Alberth> I don't see the problem tbh 17:59:46 <_johannes> currently, Yapf checks only one direction if it arrives on a station 17:59:52 <Alberth> instead of A* itself doing both sides, you call it two times, ie you moved the direction decision out of the loop of A* 18:00:06 <_johannes> why does it not take the reverse direction into account? 18:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause> because YAPF is run way more often outside of stations than inside 18:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> where reversing is never an option 18:01:00 <Alberth> and deciding not to do reverse search also takes time 18:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so you special case the rare situation, not the common situation 18:01:18 <_johannes> Alberth: no, I'd like to call it once instead of twice 18:01:50 <Alberth> void DoAStar() { Call(false); Call(true); } ? 18:01:56 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but sometimes, reversing at a station is neccessary 18:02:12 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: yes, hence that is the special case. 18:02:52 <Alberth> trains are practically never leaving the station 18:03:24 <Alberth> they are either moving on the tracks with a direction, or they are stopped for loading 18:04:15 <Alberth> but just add a wrapper that calls A* twice if you're so desperate to hide the directional search 18:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: for every time the train is leaving the station, it's calling YAPF twice. during moving, it calls YAPF 100 times. so if over the course of the travel, it calls YAPF 101 or 102 times does asymptotically not matter 18:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: if instead YAPF always checked backwards, and had to filter out 100 of the 101 times for bogus backwards results, that's much more expensive calculation-wise 18:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause> thus, the current solution of calling YAPF twice for situations allowing reversing, is the optimal solution 18:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (also, reversing in stations may be disabled in settings) 18:08:11 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: So the idea is that reversing a train usually makes no advantage, and thus, this calculation is not being done in order to save time? 18:08:24 <_dp_> ehm, how're you even going to check that backwards? what if there is more than one station along the route? 18:08:56 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: no, reversing a train usually CANNOT happen, and thus the caclulation is only being done where it CAN. 18:09:03 <Alberth> if you run 230km/h, what use is a backward search path? 18:09:10 <_dp_> it's possible to do with single call by adding fake rail for reversing 18:09:23 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: wait, reversing CAN happen 18:09:35 <_dp_> *though) 18:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: YAPF is run at every path signal and every switch along the train's path 18:09:41 <_johannes> it does happen regularly in some stations 18:09:49 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: reversing cannot happen in those situations 18:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: stations are a VERY RARE EXCEPTION 18:11:03 <_johannes> hmm but why did you call YAPF twice in that rare exception, instead of calling it in two directions? 18:11:14 <_johannes> that would probably have been easier and even faster 18:11:46 <_johannes> currently, if you call yapf twice, yapf can not use the cached results from the first call, so it's an overhead 18:11:58 <Alberth> because it implies you have code to disable the second direction 18:12:07 <Alberth> that code also takes time 18:12:10 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it would not, as that would impact the performance of EVERY call to YAPF, even the ones that CANNOT allow reversing 18:13:03 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: no, nodes at path signals would only have one direction to advance 18:13:13 <_johannes> I'd set up two edges per track 18:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: it's a simple statistical concept: you multiply the performance impact with the probability that the event occures 18:13:26 <_johannes> and these edges would only share a node at a station or depot 18:14:06 <Alberth> nobody builds tracks without junctions 18:14:14 <Eddi|zuHause> whichever product is smaller, is the better solution overall 18:14:32 <_johannes> I just start getting why it's a rare exception though... 18:17:04 <Alberth> if you have a 1000 trains running, you don't want to know how often yapf is called every second 18:17:27 <Alberth> every fricking nano second gain is needed 18:18:00 <_johannes> it's called so often because some trains might start blocking other trains now, right? 18:18:39 <Alberth> ever tried adding a new connection that's shorter, just in front of a train in a block signal segment? 18:18:56 <Alberth> it immediately finds the better route 18:19:08 <_johannes> yes, and sometimes, it even hangs very shortly 18:19:25 <Alberth> that's usually the save game copy 18:20:09 <Alberth> you need to copy the entire map, while nothing moves 18:20:22 <Alberth> at big map sizes, that's a lot of cpu cycles 18:20:36 <_johannes> yes, I know 18:20:58 <_johannes> well, it could be done multi-threaded :P but I don't complain 18:21:07 <Alberth> mope, it cannot 18:21:10 <Alberth> *nope 18:21:14 <Alberth> it would break in MP 18:21:26 <_johannes> oO 18:21:40 <Alberth> also, trains react on other trains, it's a sequential process 18:22:10 <Alberth> even though it look parallel 18:22:15 <Alberth> *looks 18:22:44 <_johannes> I just thought calling save routines could be moved to a thread... 18:22:56 <Alberth> it is 18:23:01 <_johannes> oh? wow... 18:23:15 <Alberth> but you need a fixated copy of the map 18:23:24 <_johannes> ah I see! 18:23:34 <Alberth> so you need to make a copy, but during that time, nothing can move 18:24:18 <Alberth> after copying is done, game continues, and the save thread writes the data to disk 18:24:42 <_johannes> anyways, how to solve my graph problem? I guess I'll just call YAPF like it it, but try reversing on every station... this gives me a graph of stations where I can run my own A* on... probably the easiest solution? 18:25:18 <Alberth> yep 18:25:32 <Alberth> at least I think so 18:26:21 <_dp_> _johannes, I don't think that problem can even be solved precisely for some cases 18:26:47 <_dp_> _johannes, with pf trap for example train won't ever go the way pathfinder shows if you call it from station 18:29:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:31:51 <_johannes> _dp_: what do you mean by "pf trap" ? 18:32:03 <_dp_> _johannes, https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Two-way_end_of_line#Pathfinder_trap 18:34:50 <_johannes> _dp_: that thing is really cool 18:37:21 <_johannes> in the right image, the train first thinks that the shortcut is faster, however, when it comes to reserving that track, it sees that it can not advance via the red signal and takes the left route? 18:38:40 <_dp_> _johannes, yep, at least that's how I understand it too 18:39:07 <_dp_> _johannes, also check SRNWs, they usually abuse pathfinder heavily xD 18:41:28 * _johannes must try it out 18:45:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6D52F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:52:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6D73C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:14:36 *** qwebirc44411 [~oftc-webi@h-72-9.a163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:17:53 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 19:24:36 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:25:57 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:36:47 <Wolf01> mmh I must understand how real signals work, spread them like OTTD doesn't seem to work 19:40:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:44:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f745be0.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 19:47:08 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:52:11 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@72.1.195.4] has joined #openttd 19:52:14 <drac_boy> hi 19:54:01 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:24 <frosch123> haha, how awesome 19:55:43 <frosch123> it's time again to make fun of the two-intials-grfid-rule :) 19:56:40 <planetmaker> o/ 19:57:04 <drac_boy> frosch you talking about that recent forum thread re someone almost going crazy till he realized his initials existed elsewhere? :) 19:57:14 <frosch123> exactly :) 19:57:27 <andythenorth> eh? 19:57:38 <andythenorth> am I on different forums? 19:57:39 <planetmaker> hehe... drat. That possibility totally didn't occur to me :) 19:57:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth, nope :) 19:58:00 <Alberth> o/ 19:58:17 <drac_boy> frosch well I think thats also the problem with just handing out random grfids with no kind of tracking too :) 19:59:21 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1164470#p1164470 19:59:41 <frosch123> drac_boy: if they were truely random we would not have any problem ever :) 20:00:16 <andythenorth> hash them with your public key or something :P 20:00:23 * andythenorth says words 20:00:33 <frosch123> andythenorth: you meant to say "private key" 20:01:03 <andythenorth> itâs all just crypto to me :P 20:02:10 <frosch123> any new alpacas? 20:02:27 <frosch123> koalas or pandas? 20:02:39 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/9591b6434676/entry/src/graphics/big_boat_0.png 20:02:54 <frosch123> weird ship 20:02:58 <andythenorth> quite pleased with these sprites, if I say so myself 20:03:03 * drac_boy is glad my possible grfid isn't in use yet per crawler/forum check 20:03:06 <andythenorth> 1) think it looks ok 2) fun to draw 20:03:17 <andythenorth> I have stopped re-lighting the reversed angle 20:03:23 <andythenorth> much more satisfying 20:03:36 <frosch123> why is it called "boat"? 20:03:38 <andythenorth> I just knock the shading of the CC down by 1 or 2 20:03:52 <andythenorth> super realism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_U18B 20:03:59 <frosch123> oh, it's a type, yuo meant "big boar" :) 20:04:25 <andythenorth> I made âbaby boat' 20:04:32 <andythenorth> so the big one had to be âbig boatâ 20:04:41 <Alberth> good colour 20:05:45 <andythenorth> company colour? :P 20:06:30 <andythenorth> doing sprites with wrong lighting might actually look better 20:06:41 <andythenorth> especially in â view, which is all most people really look at 20:07:24 <drac_boy> baby deltic? ;) 20:09:24 <andythenorth> eh? 20:14:40 *** drac_boy_ [~oftc-webi@72.1.195.4] has joined #openttd 20:14:54 <drac_boy_> sorry bit of server issue 20:15:25 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@72.1.195.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:15:51 *** drac_boy_ is now known as drac_boy 20:19:31 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:20:25 *** Clockworker__ is now known as Clockworker 20:28:47 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 20:29:02 <drac_boy> sim-a12 :p anything good? ;) 20:29:11 <sim-al2> oh hi 20:34:00 <sim-al2> Well I suppose this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzKy3ENHcOA 20:34:31 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:915a:f14d:1e81:d59e] has joined #openttd 20:35:27 <drac_boy> and either way do you recall I mentioned about a lone german diesel locomotive in canada before? 20:35:41 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:35:46 <sim-al2> Which one? 20:36:40 <drac_boy> well I finally found it http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k61/marcimmeker/CN1000MaKKiel.jpg and look in the background, its really canada :) 20:37:06 <drac_boy> probably the only diesel-hydraulic ever in canada (usa at least had a few if you remember we even talked about SP's too) 20:38:40 <drac_boy> oh and on a slight less unusual note did you perhaps know that canada did actually have two emd E units in an all-F-units country? they were bought for montreal<>ny service or something to that effect 20:39:33 <monsted> for train nerds, you might enjoy Michael Portillo's "Great <something> Railway Journeys". they just finished an american trip. 20:40:46 <frosch123> sim-al2: what's that? 20:41:04 <monsted> looks like mechanical switchgear on an electric train 20:41:11 <sim-al2> Apparently they ended up in CP ownership towards the end, probably a good thing 20:41:12 <drac_boy> I imagine when the service ended (or moved to amtrak/via) these units went nowwhere ... can't think CP would want to bother trying to put an E and F units together or did they 20:41:41 <sim-al2> They will work together ok, assuming similar gearing 20:42:23 <sim-al2> frosch123: It's the camshaft controller of a JR emu, the big shaft places resistance in the circuit and knocks it out as it advances 20:42:59 <sim-al2> The small contacts I think are for weakfield control 20:43:49 <sim-al2> And the contacts shown at the beginning I assume are the main breakers for the whole unit 20:45:37 <sim-al2> For a train running off DC, this kind of camshaft controller was very common from ~1920's to the 1980's, but it could be found on AC units too 20:47:13 <drac_boy> and for canada again heres something from the late 70's http://www.trainweb.org/brantford/via/via6782.jpg thats an interesting CN/VIA paint mismash :) .. there even sometimes were three together (CN/CP/VIA) 20:47:30 <drac_boy> you can see theres probably at least two commuter CN coaches in the consist too 20:48:35 <sim-al2> I have to say, the Alco FA nose is my favorite, even more than the F-unit nose 20:49:27 <drac_boy> heh I sorta like alco for most part yeah ... doesn't help they'll smoke like steam sometimes *whistles and looks somewhere else* 20:50:25 <sim-al2> Yeah, the Alcos are so known for it, but all diesels did then, pre-emission standards the only limiting factor was appearences 20:51:22 <drac_boy> http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7185/6859857789_516c566fd7.jpg .. or if you want low maintenance try india/etc as they make too much black smoke to see the sun 20:52:16 <sim-al2> The Indian railways has actually been building and upgrading Alco-engined units for a long time, they even have an EFI version 20:52:24 <drac_boy> reminds me of a short article where a ex-shopforeman actually mentioned that in term of baldwins "if they're not constantly leaking oil then theres something wrong!" ... talk about finding that funny 20:52:52 <sim-al2> I think it's mostly the older or less-maintained units that make the Youtube video clouds 20:53:08 <andythenorth> bye 20:53:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 20:53:27 <drac_boy> theres always these too https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3503/3700669909_e003c5b0ec_z.jpg?zz=1 some smoking but no big oil burnoff's 20:55:07 <drac_boy> sim-a12 not related to oil smoke but theres another kind of smoke I sometimes just like to point out, one sec... 20:57:36 <drac_boy> http://www.trainweb.org/theattic/PC_Metuchen_60s_2.jpg care to guess why theres a little smoke coming from it? (then again I think you probably already knew) 20:58:18 <sim-al2> Well, only that little boiler to run the steam heating 20:58:56 <monsted> the tea kettle! 20:59:17 <drac_boy> sim-a12 as one magazine wrote.. the GG1 was a little more alike to steam tech than diesel tech .. and the editor had a point 20:59:41 <sim-al2> As I recall, the boiler and the main transformer are both in the middle space, leaving the crew with a somewhat tight cab 21:00:00 <drac_boy> steam-style boiler (but later refitted with diesel era boiler), spoked tires, idler axles (only 1 or 2 other diesels had it), iron bell, being built at a tender company, etc 21:00:54 <drac_boy> oh and even GG1 name itself was a steam hangover too (G class is a 2-6-0 .. figured didn't that) 21:01:37 <drac_boy> you're right about the tight cab, just enough space for 2 people 21:03:28 <sim-al2> There were some competitors, like the P5A class, a 4-6-4 that wasn't powerful enough, and the R1 prototype, a 4-8-4, but one that suffered from some wheelbase problems 21:04:10 <sim-al2> But the GG1 had more power and better tracking qualities, thanks to it's articulated drivers 21:04:10 <drac_boy> monsted if you want a real kettle here you go! http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/109810854.jpg 21:04:37 <drac_boy> sim-a12 as I recall the number 4800 initially went to a non-articulated unit (was like 2-D-2 I think?) but it was a bit wanting 21:05:07 <drac_boy> funny enough the one lone unit still lasted a few years as I think was quoted 21:05:21 <sim-al2> Yeah, I think only one was built, but the PRR kept it for many years: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=r1.gif&sel=ele&sz=lg&fr= 21:05:48 <drac_boy> sim-a12 well as it was already built and shared same service components I can see why they didn't bother scrapping it till it really wasn't useable 21:06:23 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:07:12 <drac_boy> its been a while but I think the GG1 #4800 was the only one with its body being rivetted ... and some museum still had it minus enviromentally-gutted transformer internals 21:08:10 <sim-al2> Note that these early "straight AC" locomotives often had two traction motors per axle, a way to get around the disadvantages (i.e. poor torque) 21:08:38 <drac_boy> sim-a12 the only problem with GG1 was ... a little happy to slip ... that explains the frequent doublehead on some freight duties :) 21:10:48 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:12:01 <drac_boy> still find it interesting that of the three (could had been there were more but I'm going by the editor's note) GG1's still left in NJT service one was washed down well and took a special excursion service but sadly had some problem on return trip so a drowsy black GG1 was dispatched to bring it in .. that was the very last corridor GG1 train ever I believe 21:12:34 <drac_boy> NJT at least knew a good thing when they saw one (not to mention that tickets were only ) 21:12:41 <sim-al2> It's a shame that none can run, but with so many years of PRR and PC neglect, they were run into the ground 21:13:22 <drac_boy> well thats only half of the problem..the other half is that the transformers wouldn't be accepted and that would be expensive to replace .. plus other fact is trying to push that old cracks-filled chassis at 140mph would be a bit harsh 21:13:30 <sim-al2> Not to mention the frame-cracking problem that was never fully solved 21:13:54 <sim-al2> Ehh, 140mph? GG1 Vmax was 100mph 21:13:59 <drac_boy> and all these silly "just replace internals with one from the AEM7" talks don't have much clue about reality either! 21:14:12 <drac_boy> sim-a12 .. corridor services wouldn't slow down for the GG1 .. hence why I mentioned that 21:14:27 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:14:32 <sim-al2> Yeah, the AEM7 system is completely different, but NEC speed is 125mph 21:14:41 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:14:53 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f745be0.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:15:07 <drac_boy> well still .. could a GG1 keep up with standard Acela timings? thats the first drawback 21:15:45 <drac_boy> mind you britian is going through a bit of similar problem with even the faster steam locomotives getting less chances to run on mainlines due to ever-increasing route speeds 21:15:52 <sim-al2> Not really, but the GE E60Cs that were supposed to replace them were limited to 80mph or 90mph at times 21:16:09 <sim-al2> Long distance trains even now rarely run above 90 21:16:22 <drac_boy> and steam at King Cross? in your dream :) (figures doesn't it heh) 21:17:32 <sim-al2> If anything, the real crime is that MARC seems dead-set on replacing their electrics with diesels, so that they can be clog up the corridor around Washington DC 21:19:44 <sim-al2> The higher speeds allowed now are a recent phonomenon, throughout the 70's and 80's speed restrictions were everywhere, which is how the E60s survived so long 21:20:17 <drac_boy> btw I did a check .. the Acela does actually get to go over 130mph ... and after 2016 there would be some 160mph spots too 21:21:08 <sim-al2> Current Acela max speed is 150mph through an area in Rhode Island (the extension from NY to Boston), but they have tested it on the corridor at 160 21:21:35 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.106.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:05 <sim-al2> The damn tunnels around Baltimore seem a bit more pressing, but that project has been crawling along for decades now 21:22:25 <drac_boy> for you...it does seem like MNR has the new haven to new york commuter route posted for 90mph or 60mph 21:22:47 <drac_boy> even then theres probably very little headway between trains .. a GG1 *may* be ok there with a light consist, no idea tbh :) 21:23:14 <sim-al2> I don't know too much about MNR (too far away for me), but they seem to run at 80 or less most of the time 21:23:42 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d083e49.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:24:01 <drac_boy> btw about MARC ... ummm .... 21:24:14 <sim-al2> the GG1 had good power, even if they had been in good shape the mainteance would have done them in, the control system is primairly moving contacts inside the transformer under load 21:25:13 <drac_boy> well last I recall I think a lot of the MARC trains often had some routings away from the corridor hence the frequent use of diesel push-pull 21:26:44 <drac_boy> mind you GO Transit tried inquiry about some electrification at least once but so far they're running on MP40 locomotives most of the times with just still occassional uses of the older F40PH 21:27:09 <drac_boy> ehh...no not the F40..just can't recall the next number 21:27:12 <drac_boy> you get idea anyway 21:28:39 <drac_boy> GO Transit is a bit funny .. all locomotives always point in one same direction for ease of scheduling .. but sometimes the rare one does sit outside shop facing wrong direction 21:33:00 <sim-al2> They are rebuilding those MP40s into MP54s for more power though 21:34:05 <sim-al2> And the F59s are being sold into US commuter lines now, Chicago finally has a commuter locomotive with an engine design only from the 80s/90s instead of the 60s 21:35:19 <sim-al2> You're right about MARC having a lot of diesel line service, but the electric line is seperate now, and slowing down the trains will piss off Amtrak to MARC's peril 21:36:08 <sim-al2> There seems to be a high chance of MARC leasing/buying the AEM-7ACs as they get replaced by the ACS-64 though 21:37:32 <drac_boy> mmm yeah 21:38:52 <sim-al2> the ACs are seemingly still in good shape, and subsitute for the 64s while the buys are worked out, whereas the DCs (what MARC, Septa) are pretty worn out, and parts not really avaliable 21:38:57 <sim-al2> *bugs 21:40:16 <sim-al2> NJT had a fleet of similar locomotives, the ALP44, but parked them in a yard somewhere as the ALP46A's arrived, apparently the 44s had problems even before the DCs did 21:40:18 <drac_boy> anyway have fun trying to talk to someone else ok? I'm going off for now sorry :) 21:40:25 <sim-al2> Ok bye 21:40:27 <drac_boy> oh, interesting 21:40:34 <drac_boy> bye mr.trainwatch :) 21:40:37 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@72.1.195.4] has left #openttd [] 22:12:53 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-151-9.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:31:59 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d083e49.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 22:35:38 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d083e49.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [] 22:38:16 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d083e49.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 22:40:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1921D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:53 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:56:18 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f049176108.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 22:57:50 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:58 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:02 *** [Franklin] [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:10:14 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 23:11:51 *** __builtin [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:40 <Wolf01> 'night 23:20:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:23:21 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:37:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6D52F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]