Log for #openttd on 24th February 2016:
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00:20:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that may be possible, but tricky to get right if it gets more complicated
00:21:40  <Eddi|zuHause> a better example would be a car transporter that refits to goods only if no vehicles are defined
00:21:54  <drac_boy> just curious how far it could had gone so..thanks
00:22:21  <drac_boy> aha yeah I think I've seen that and sometimes found it odd yet reasonable .. a car ferry that can't carry cars at all for example :)
00:22:43  <drac_boy> (probably better than a vehicle that can't refit to any cargos and so just becomes a buylist clutter)
00:23:03  <Eddi|zuHause> those vehicles are automatically removed from the buy list
00:25:13  <drac_boy> even then sometimes some vehicles do bring on their own slight oddity (my own opinion) such as who would want to stuff livestock into a tanker car :P
00:27:10  <Eddi|zuHause> that was meant to represent milk :p
00:29:09  <drac_boy> why does a butcher want milk?? ha ;)
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00:31:59  <drac_boy> anyway, at least I only have a simple cargoclass list to work with and not many wagons so I don't need to bother thinking about this least I had to ask anyhow
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00:36:27  <drac_boy> :)
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00:50:12  <supermop> in the last couple of days chrome seems to be eating my computer, even with only one tab open
00:50:34  <supermop> so here i am browsing with ie until i figure out what is going on
00:51:33  <Eddi|zuHause> malware? antivirus (hardly a difference)? memleak?
00:51:58  <supermop> seems to be a memory thing
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00:52:14  <supermop> i don't know if i have it in me to solve
00:52:23  <supermop> as it is a 6 year old computer
00:52:49  <supermop> but... i've yet to find a laptop that i like the looks of as much so maybe we should soldier on
00:54:08  <supermop> about a yea ago i had an issue where norton av was running my cpu to the point of causing computer to shut down due to overheating
00:54:33  <drac_boy> well norton does have a bad rap thats still being difficult to get rid of
00:54:48  <drac_boy> as for browser, no clue .. I've never touched smelly ones personally sorry
00:56:07  <supermop> used to use opera but gave up on it a few year back due to high ram usage ironically
00:57:30  <supermop> bizarrely enough, ie seems to be doing ok so far
00:57:43  <supermop> kinda looks ugly though
00:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause> frankly, there's about 10 other things i'd try before internet explorer :p
01:02:18  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: it was already on my computer
01:02:33  <supermop> open to suggestions though
01:02:42  <supermop> on browsers or hardware
01:02:52  <supermop> my dilemma is this:
01:03:02  <supermop> rather multi-lemma
01:03:29  <drac_boy> supermop, "multi-lemma"?
01:03:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not a "bilemma" :p
01:03:59  <supermop> i've used a very small but very powerful laptop for over a decade - first one vaio, then this, for 5+ years each
01:04:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a hard time imagining there to be hardware limitations to browsing...
01:04:49  <supermop> and i eenjoy the portability, but for architectural work, a desktop seems more sensible in these days with multiple graphics cards
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01:05:32  <supermop> also sony stopped the vaio line and no one else seems to think this is a niche worth persuing (likely correct since sony lost money on the higher end vaios)
01:05:53  <drac_boy> supermop oh ok
01:06:27  <supermop> also: the software i use is best, or only runs on, windows, not osx or linux
01:07:00  <supermop> but new computers seem to all have 10, which i would be ok with, but does not seem to be supported
01:07:13  <drac_boy> supermop either way I've only helped with midori often and the infrequent alternative or sleipnir instead. haven't tried installing it for others yet but I've heard k-meleon seem to be good too
01:07:24  <supermop> i guess autocad works on 10, but rhino does not recommend it
01:07:33  <drac_boy> take that suggestion on your own if you want to ^
01:07:34  <drac_boy> :)
01:07:45  <drac_boy> of=of*
01:07:51  <supermop> drac_boy: i assume those are 'nix flavors?
01:07:53  <drac_boy> or=of* stupid keys
01:07:59  <drac_boy> supermop..nope two are windows only
01:09:15  <supermop> basically - if there was an obvious new computer to buy i'd just buy it and not waste any mental or emotional engergy on the browser headaches of an old machine
01:09:25  <drac_boy> sleipnir has the interesting feature of supporting two engines natively so if a site wouldn't render in non-trident you can actually render it with trident instead (for real, not just simply impose itself as IE in the id string)
01:09:50  <drac_boy> but as I haven't used it much I can't really say a lot tho
01:10:02  <supermop> is it stil possible to buy win7 or 8?
01:10:21  <drac_boy> yeah lot of stores still have 8 retail here, not sure about your area tho
01:10:22  <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just buy 10 and downgrade it to 7?
01:10:38  <Eddi|zuHause> at least that's how it used to work previously
01:10:58  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: did you do that?
01:11:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't owned a windows since XP
01:11:35  <supermop> don't think i ever saw evidence to the effect of you being windows or non windows, but i always assumed you didn't use it
01:12:23  <Eddi|zuHause> you probably missed loads of cues then :p
01:12:24  <supermop> always had the impression you were a mathematician and thus not bound to it by software
01:12:29  <drac_boy> btw eddi the only one problem I've seen a few reports cropping up on is that *if* you had used a non-retail win10 disc to upgrade your computer, ms literally invalids your prior COA
01:12:42  <drac_boy> kinda a bit annoying behvaiour if you ask me
01:13:42  <supermop> odd that no one on the forums mentioned this morning's NS crash
01:14:02  <supermop> my brother told me about it right after i woke up
01:14:15  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: i don't know what that means. but i meant when you buy a computer that comes with win10, you can use that license to get from microsoft an earlier version of windows for free
01:14:34  <drac_boy> ah ok different then ^
01:15:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that may be limited to the professional lines
01:15:27  <drac_boy> before it used to be that eg if you bought non-retail to upgrade xp to 7 you then has an unused xp key to keep for elsewhere .. but now with win10 you pretty much forfeit your older COA for good as soon as you agree to the eula or so
01:15:43  <drac_boy> but I've only seen a few reports so I'm not sure if its standard or not
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01:16:36  <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: that may be a side effect of the free upgrade
01:17:14  <Eddi|zuHause> also, burying weird clauses like that in an EULA might be illegal
01:17:16  <drac_boy> could be that yeah, makes sense
01:17:32  <supermop> wouldn't hold up in court, even here
01:17:42  <supermop> iff you have the cash to take it to court
01:17:51  <drac_boy> and hey eddi, you're not quite the only one. I stopped with ms right at xp generation too
01:19:32  <drac_boy> supermop yeah some europe countries have more exactly laws about fair consumer rights and I applaud them :)
01:20:49  <supermop> hmm as per usual i seem to be about half a stone better at go after a few beers
01:20:57  <drac_boy> also I forgot the exact wording but I believe there was the "it does what I had purchased it for otherwise I can get a refund" clause in the law too ... eg sony wouldn't had been able to sell with myos then strip it without any notification
01:21:24  <drac_boy> maybe someone who does live in europe would actually know the specific clause I've heard about
01:23:01  <supermop> nevermind the above statement
01:23:27  <drac_boy> supermop not quite related but I remember a silly Garfield comic strip ....
01:24:15  <supermop> ok re-mind it
01:24:58  <drac_boy> basically the cat went NOTHINGLIKEAGOODCUPOFCOFFEEINTHEMORNINGYESSSIR! in a 2-box-wide thought bubble from left to middle .. we see the wide-eye cat with cup in middle .. and john to the right was basically saying "I need to cut you off from caffine"
01:25:21  <drac_boy> talk about being too jolted to even space out your words :)
01:26:48  <luaduck> I'm writing a plugin that automatically kicks someone if they join a company (yeah it sounds stupid but I'm simplifying it for the purposes of this question)
01:27:10  <drac_boy> luaduck better question: why aren't you using a password?
01:27:11  <drac_boy> just asking
01:27:13  <luaduck> if I rcon kick them as soon as I get the notification that they joined, players desync
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01:27:35  <luaduck> drac_boy: like I said, oversimplification (it actually kicks people that join with a default name)
01:27:57  <luaduck> think it's reasonable to add like a 1s delay before kicking?
01:28:14  <drac_boy> luaduck not trying to impose themself into the game but just rather these that keep showing up with only Player # nicks?
01:28:26  <luaduck> I'm guessing some clients don't quite catch up to which company they're in
01:28:31  <luaduck> drac_boy: correct
01:28:53  <drac_boy> I see, I never understood the dumb people that can't bother looking at that one text field in top of the game lobby window
01:28:56  <luaduck> I actually just pushed it
01:29:47  <drac_boy> btw luaduck I could be wrong but as an intermidate measure too you could have an automatic script that would send a server message to a player every # cycle (say 30s?) that has the word 'Player' in name?
01:30:06  <luaduck> it's set to notify them when they try to join
01:30:07  <drac_boy> I think I saw at least one if not more busy server with this some time ago...or was it a plugin...not too sure
01:30:11  <luaduck> it also tells them when they join
01:30:16  <drac_boy> ah ok, just had to check
01:30:23  <luaduck> but some people are too stupid to read that
01:30:38  <luaduck> so they just spam the game with join/spectate messages
01:31:03  <drac_boy> heh well luaduck you're probably right to want to kick them for being douch .. first not setting a name pre-game then keep joining anyway
01:31:18  <luaduck> might escalate it to bans if people still don't read
01:31:27  <luaduck> a kick should be enough to deter the casuals
01:31:59  <drac_boy> I think I've seen at least one or more map that had Player, Player #2, etc up to Player #5 or 6 ... its just uhhhh just too makes-no-sense
01:33:08  <Eddi|zuHause> <luaduck> if I rcon kick them as soon as I get the notification that they joined, players desync <-- that sounds like a bug
01:33:23  <luaduck> possibly
01:33:35  <luaduck> I'm not sure if it's a bug or just something that's a bit of a can't fix
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01:34:16  <Eddi|zuHause> only going to find that out by reporting (or investigating)
01:34:32  <luaduck> yeah I'll probably file something in bugspray tomorrow
01:34:56  <drac_boy> luaduck also I kinda loved the actively-watched servers that has the admin going "hey you..yes YOU - stop absuing the map! ... # I said stop being rude .... ok goodbye! *kicks then deletes the whole company*" .. sometimes the same person comes back and suddenly becomes non-muted by complaining that he/she can't find company anymore
01:34:59  <luaduck> speaking of good ideas, it'd be really neat if we could pop the red warning errors server side (possibly via admin port)
01:35:07  <drac_boy> got to love people that think they can be "deaf" till its too late
01:35:17  <luaduck> oh we have tonnes of those
01:35:31  <sim-al2> Heh, more than enough
01:35:35  <luaduck> good number of sleeper cells that build companies then start going fucking nuts
01:36:29  <supermop> ok that game wasn't enough to get me back to 9k, but at least the opponent dropped from 9 to 10
01:37:49  <supermop> what kind of server is this, luaduck ?
01:37:58  <drac_boy> luaduck also don't you love the twats that try to throw up signs or empty rails simply because they "want" to have their own big station or extra-large airport in the future even if this means blocking a lot of town growth or (on non-level maps) blocking players from being able to build an unrelated route to elsewhere?
01:38:12  <luaduck> supermop: we run the /r/openttd servers
01:38:35  <drac_boy> at least one player as I recall built a small airport .. built tons of roads around it ("
01:38:52  <supermop> haven't played multiplayer in a while
01:38:55  <drac_boy> "for the town" he claims*) then also proceed to lay enough signs to build the most biggest hub airport
01:39:15  <drac_boy> I mean .. come on ... wake up and think just 20 years ahead maybe, not 100!
01:40:04  <sim-al2> Well. with 15 companies going you basically can't build a bigger airport after a few years
01:40:12  <drac_boy> and hows your night (or whatever your time zone was again, i forgot) sim-a12?
01:40:48  <sim-al2> Good, it's central time for me
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01:41:16  <drac_boy> 15 companies = probably a good time to actually use the thing called trains :)
01:41:42  <sim-al2> There's plenty of those, people just insist on using planes
01:42:49  <drac_boy> funny enough even with only being able to play alone in ttdxp I've often used train-plane links just like how the Lufthansa Airport Express and alike may have operated
01:43:18  <drac_boy> nothing like the super-jet landing down 20 tiles far away from the residental houses .. and the passengers ending up near urban core by train
01:44:23  <sim-al2> I do like cargo dist for that, makes airports make much more sense
01:45:56  <drac_boy> only maybe tried that thing in a special ottd game once or twice ... dunno if I liked it a lot especially when it piled too many passengers at a strange out-of-the-way small station :-/
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01:46:43  <drac_boy> weirdly enough simutrans seem to have a more reliable method that can sort out small direct station vs indirect large station and often deliever them to the latter instead
01:47:05  <drac_boy> dunno tbh, different game engines after all
01:48:22  <drac_boy> either way supermop good luck with the browsers anyhow. luaduck have fun keeping these idiots out more often if you would. and eddi I still dunno why a butcher wants lot of milk ha.  and finally sim-a12 see you another time ok? going sleep soon here :-s
01:48:39  <drac_boy> sorry about leaving mid-chat but meh .. got an early morning to deal with tomorrow :-s
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01:49:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i wasn't planning on answering that question...
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02:32:39  <supermop> not sure why there isn't a desire to see 2 or three aspect signals alongside 4 aspect
02:33:33  <supermop> would save me having to build a 3 signals in a row where a branch joins or on certain entries into junctions
02:33:56  <Eddi|zuHause> well, 2 is kinda already in, and i'd like 3 but i didn't want to bring it up, because it would lead to the discussion about additional signal types
02:36:44  <supermop> over several hours with this game ive been able to adapt to the long reservations in most cases, but there are certain areas where it is just unworkable
02:37:33  <supermop> but a slow train shouldn't need to reserve so many blocks
02:38:33  <supermop> especially if it is already moving at the "yellow" speed, it shouldn't need to reserve more than a yellow signal, ie one block
02:40:33  <supermop> otherwise my little mountain railbus doing 50kmh reserves a path all the way down the mountain, across a mainline junction, into a platform at the hauptbanhhof as soon as it turns around at end of line
02:41:43  <supermop> the discussion about yellow speeds in % or constant values is tricy i guess
02:44:06  <supermop> i guess you want a fast train following a slow train to match the speed of the train ahead, but you'd also want a 160kmh to stay at 160kmh if it booked a path into the rear of a a 180kmh train
02:46:11  <supermop> tbh i can probably survive without yellow signals at all, it just looks so much better
02:47:19  <supermop> i've been placing block signals before path signals where i need to make sure a train cannot reserve too far in advance and lock up a station throat
02:48:34  <supermop> i can't tell yet if long reservations improve 3-track lines or not, even after hours of observation. slightly lean towards yes
02:49:35  <supermop> those may need signals that 'turn off' instead, like on the 3 track elevated lines here
02:51:20  <supermop> basically, an arbitrarily long reservation with no backwards signal penalty
02:53:39  <supermop> so that once a train enters the center track, it faces a normal run of signals but no train can enter from the otherside, instead of the current approach where you must ensure <<<>>> and never >>><<<
02:54:17  <supermop> later
02:55:35  <sim-al2> It'll look nice with long heavy trains, where the instant stop behavior is really noticable
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05:47:53  <MonkeyDrone> can't even edit the wiki, i believe the IP range for my whole region is blocked because of spam issues, argh, just wanted to update the wiki with some more info
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08:12:19  <_dp_> funny, and I disabled all checks for unnamed "player"s few days ago
08:12:41  <_dp_> though will probably bring them back soon now that I see the scale of disaster xD
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08:16:31  <_dp_> they seem to name their companies but not themselves %)
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12:31:42  <Wolf01> o/
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12:43:20  <Milek7> i used {STRING} in gamescript language file
12:43:44  <Milek7> but passing squirrel string as argument to GSText constructor not works
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13:23:33  <NXXR> mornin guys :9
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13:41:19  <andythenorth> o/
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13:59:19  <supermop> hi andythenorth
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14:04:54  <andythenorth> lo supermop
14:06:04  <andythenorth> how long should wagons be?
14:06:07  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause
14:06:22  * andythenorth likes trains that fit neatly to whole 8/8
14:06:28  <Eddi|zuHause> 12/8
14:06:35  <andythenorth> good answer
14:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> for passenger wagons
14:06:43  <andythenorth> I can do 2 at 6/8 and get that result :)
14:07:01  <Eddi|zuHause> then don't bother :p
14:07:41  <andythenorth> pragmatically the ones that are already drawn are 6/8
14:07:49  <andythenorth> and 4/8 is too short, looks daft
14:10:54  <supermop> what every became of your andean horses andy?
14:10:58  <supermop> ever
14:11:19  <andythenorth> the roster didn’t make sense
14:11:37  <andythenorth> and I am more interested in the African roster right now
14:11:44  <andythenorth> but
14:12:02  <andythenorth> the andean roster will happen
14:12:30  <supermop> if you have a double unit thing, like the class 20 in IH, what about drawing the back half as a slug?
14:13:07  <andythenorth> for the US roster I will yes
14:13:12  <andythenorth> it’s a nice idea
14:13:17  <supermop> idk if theyy do that in africa
14:13:33  <supermop> ive only seen it once in real life here
14:13:49  <supermop> but i dont spend much time or thought on freight rail
14:15:16  <Eddi|zuHause> slug? talked to V for too long? :p
14:15:16  <supermop> so is the roster more south african, or west african? or all over?
14:15:43  <andythenorth> mostly west and central african
14:15:49  <andythenorth> ish
14:15:52  <andythenorth> it’s all ‘ish'
14:16:00  <andythenorth> this one turned out to be nearly 100% realism though
14:16:13  <andythenorth> after I’d searched enough for things matching what I need to include for gameplay :P
14:16:36  <supermop> probably for the best
14:17:15  <supermop> with BR you would always feel the need to include this or that for familiarity's sake
14:17:17  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how many tons of coal in an 8 tile ‘high capacity’ train? o_O
14:17:36  <andythenorth> there is high axle loading permitted and other realism nonsense
14:17:36  <supermop> then shoehorn them in
14:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a 4 axle wagon takes about 60t?
14:18:12  <andythenorth> yeah, I have them at 55t
14:18:24  <andythenorth> 990t in 8 tiles, with 9000hp of engines
14:18:32  <supermop>
14:18:38  <andythenorth> RL is more like 120t
14:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: those are 6 axle wagons
14:19:19  <supermop> i assume they use american style equipment there
14:19:21  <andythenorth> US has 40t axle weights, EU more like 30 I believe
14:19:31  <andythenorth> oh the realisms :|
14:20:08  <andythenorth> I think 60t is a nice capacity
14:20:17  <andythenorth> thanks
14:20:48  <supermop> just set capacity to "marvelous"
14:22:00  <andythenorth> ha
14:22:01  <supermop> hmm they list their ore hoppers by voulume, and their coal hoppers by weight
14:23:46  <supermop> possible bad feature: separate properties for volume and weight?
14:24:23  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE :D
14:24:35  <supermop> big hopper gets too heavy before it is full of ore, small hopper gets too full before it hold maximum mass of coal
14:26:34  <supermop> i guess can fake it with unexplained differences in capacity for refits
14:27:07  <andythenorth> that has been done :)
14:27:10  <andythenorth> not wisely
14:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably fine, but you won't ever have nice round numbers
14:29:19  <supermop> according to this website, coke goes in covered hoppers, not open
14:29:40  <supermop> why would it matter if it gets wet?
14:30:22  <supermop> also i assumed they would bake the coke at the iron furnace rather than transport it from some other location
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14:55:03  <Ketsuban> Nobody likes diluted coke.
14:59:48  <dqe> can anybody help me to program crash with openttd??
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15:39:18  <Milek7> static const int SCRIPT_TEXT_MAX_PARAMETERS = 20;
15:39:21  <Milek7> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
15:40:17  <Milek7> why!?
15:40:21  <Milek7> and why it is undocumented!?
15:40:48  <Alberth> the latter is easy, nobody bothered to write documentation
15:41:02  <Alberth> the former is probably because 20 is sufficient
15:41:20  <Alberth> afaik you can have strings containing other strings
15:41:46  <Alberth> so you can build your text in a number of steps
15:42:07  <Alberth> alternatively, isn't 20 a lot to display to the user?
15:42:47  <Milek7> if you are trying to do something like this, no
15:42:48  <Milek7>
15:43:01  <Alberth> if that is all relevant information, it takes 15 minutes to find the things you're looking for :p
15:43:50  <Alberth> what is the importance of x/y numbers?
15:44:38  <Alberth> just use X%
15:45:11  <Alberth> if you want more precision near the 100, you can use   "missing X units"  say above 95%
15:45:34  <Alberth> that cuts the number of values by 1/4 to 1/3 or so
15:45:48  <Alberth> s/by/to/
15:47:08  <andythenorth> meh
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15:47:12  <andythenorth> ‘flat is better than nested’
15:47:40  <andythenorth> try find the right box car in this list :P
15:49:00  <Alberth> download, and open a image browser in the directory :)
15:49:30  <andythenorth> ha
15:49:41  <andythenorth> it’s actually easier in the website
15:49:58  <andythenorth> my file browser truncates the names inconveniently ;)
15:50:44  <V453000> jesus christ what mess
15:50:45  <Alberth> no "info" box or "properties" box?  :)
15:52:14  <andythenorth> both
15:52:20  <andythenorth> also press ‘space’ for image preview
15:52:26  <andythenorth> V453000: better suggestion? o_O
15:52:44  <V453000> groups of engines in 1 file?
15:54:38  <V453000> if I had a directory like this, I would just remove it all XD
15:55:10  * andythenorth looks
15:55:41  <V453000> if everybody does it this way then I am not surprised nobody draws 70 cargo types
15:56:39  <Milek7> nested string approach works a bit better
15:56:41  <V453000> or idk how many there are
15:57:19  <Alberth> "many until all done"  :p
15:57:21  <Milek7> but silently breaks after 4 text objects
15:57:23  <andythenorth> where are your wagon generations in nuts?
15:59:31  <Milek7> oh, no, it works the same
15:59:46  <Milek7> 4 text objects contain total 20 parameters
15:59:47  <Milek7> ..
16:05:48  <V453000> andythenorth: each generation has it's own files :P
16:05:55  <V453000> but all cargoes per type in one file
16:06:44  <andythenorth> yeah same
16:07:05  <andythenorth> splitting files up per cargo = madness
16:07:58  <Alberth> Milek7:  so I was wrong, sorry about that :(
16:08:52  <Milek7> but it is strange, it dosen't throw error 'invalid parameter' as before, but instead silently not work
16:10:43  <Alberth> error probably happens in one of the deeper string replacements, and gets suppressed
16:11:32  <Alberth> I really thought you could build a string in one statement, and then use that in a second string build statement, thus gradually building everything
16:11:45  <Alberth> but apparently not :(
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16:28:59  <Milek7> server transfer town extra text independent to script code?
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16:29:40  <Milek7> eg. if i recompile openttd with higher max parameters clients would also need to be patched or not?
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17:15:05  <Pikka> but
17:15:11  <Pikka> hello
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17:16:05  <Alberth> hi hi
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17:30:17  <andythenorth> :o Pikka
17:30:27  <andythenorth> not often seen, much missed :)
17:30:40  <Pikka> hi :)
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17:30:57  <Wolf01> o/
17:31:00  <Pikka> Yep, busy busy... how goes things around here and/or there?
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17:31:17  <Wolf01> andy is making a zoo
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17:32:04  <Pikka> a horse zoo?
17:32:19  <Wolf01> a "iron [animal]" zoo
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17:32:50  <andythenorth> hola Terkhen
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17:33:35  <andythenorth> Pikka: haz alcos
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17:34:33  <Pikka> very nice... I saw the forum comments re shading ;)
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17:35:07  <andythenorth> it’s a lot more fun to do it wrong
17:35:14  <andythenorth> I am going to do ships wrong too
17:35:17  <andythenorth> much faster
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17:35:39  <Pikka> I came to the same conclusion before I started the 32bpp ones... the "pineapple" F units were just mirror shaded. much, much faster.
17:36:05  <Pikka> and you can just draw the shapes once and nicely, without having to try to make them look good with a second shading ;)
17:36:18  <andythenorth> yes
17:36:35  <andythenorth> I just draw the light side, then flip, and make everything one shade darker, except the nose :P
17:36:44  <andythenorth> which goes one shade lighter
17:36:45  <andythenorth> simples
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17:38:24  <Pikka> tres
17:49:15  <V453000> I think I just drew a new signal concept :>
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17:50:33  <Monkey_> what concept would that be?
17:50:38  <Monkey_> led signals? :D
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17:53:01  <V453000> just signals for BRIX
17:53:50  <Monkey_> v453000 , arn't you the one who developed NUTS
17:53:57  <V453000> yes
17:54:03  <Monkey_> sweet, big fan :D
17:54:10  <andythenorth> Pikka: also what ho?
17:54:21  <V453000> nice :) preparing new train set now :P different from NUTS, but also super functional
17:54:58  <Pikka> what ho here: back to uni next week, politicing, and job hunting even though I already have a job. :)
17:55:03  <V453000> arguably even better
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17:55:26  <Pikka> V453000, I found 32bpp signals a pain
17:55:32  <V453000> cause they are
17:55:35  <Monkey__> damn lost connectiong
17:55:45  <Monkey__> i was asking
17:55:52  <Monkey__> what is the difference with the new train set? :D
17:55:57  <Pikka> I couldn't get them both "realistic" and easily visible...
17:56:02  <V453000> everything Monkey__ :)
17:56:08  <V453000> Pikka: yeah the idea is to make them not realistic :P
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17:56:15  <Monkey__> give me a taste :D
17:56:33  <Pikka> that is of course an option, and your usual one :P
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17:56:59  <V453000> well it is mostly top secret so far, but it will be just a very little amount of extremely interesting engines, which will have WAY bigger possibilities of variety than NUTS
17:57:09  <V453000> it will look completely unique
17:57:25  <Monkey__> :D how long do we have to wait for the showcase?
17:57:36  <V453000> idk, however long it takes :) probably not super long though
17:57:42  <V453000> I have like half of the engine models done
17:57:45  <V453000> wagons to add
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17:58:27  <Monkey__> sweeet,  BRix is the new pack?
17:58:31  <V453000> coding won't be simple so it will also take some time
17:58:32  <Monkey__> BRIX
17:58:44  <V453000> BRIX is new graphics for everything, land, trees, tracks, signals, and some other details
17:58:52  <V453000> the new train set will be called PART
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17:59:25  <Monkey__> PART won't have new graphics? or do BRIX and PART work together
18:00:09  <V453000> BRIX replaces landscape/tracks
18:00:09  <V453000> PART is a train set
18:00:12  <V453000> both have their own unique graphics
18:00:17  <Alberth> TRAP would be a nicer name :p
18:00:49  <V453000> nice
18:00:54  <Monkey__> alright then, nothing to do but wait then :D
18:01:15  <Monkey__> and enjoy NUTS, prefer it way over all the other train sets i've seen to date
18:01:42  <Alberth> tried pine apple and iron horse?
18:01:45  <Monkey__> i'm sure the new stuff is going to be awesome:D
18:01:52  <V453000> well NUTS could have better graphics, but the gameplay is great
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18:03:15  <Monkey__> i've seen pineapple, never tried it, have not seen iron horse
18:03:38  <V453000> if you are looking for the amount of choices and options NUTS gives you, you won't find it there :P
18:03:52  <Monkey__> haha yeah i can see those are small sets
18:03:59  <V453000> but they are sets which are small but work
18:04:03  <Monkey__> i like my options and my art to go with my options
18:04:10  <V453000> apparently sets which work at all are immediately called gameplay oriented =D
18:04:26  <Monkey__> colors were the first thing that got me hooked to NUTS
18:04:41  <Monkey__> it's a massive quality of life improvement for my braincells
18:04:50  <V453000> =D
18:07:35  <V453000> see pm :P
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18:40:04  <_johannes> how do you link an image in the forums?
18:40:15  <_johannes> I don't want to upload it, but embed it via url
18:42:30  <Alberth> that's not really recommended as linked images tend to disappear
18:43:13  <_johannes> ah, ok
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27511 /trunk/src/lang (esperanto.txt japanese.txt) (2016-02-24 19:45:38 +0100 )
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:50  <DorpsGek> japanese: 4 changes by nex259
18:45:51  <DorpsGek> esperanto: 4 changes by polluks
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19:05:11  <andythenorth> V453000: can’t remember if I showed you this
19:05:25  <andythenorth> painted stuff in an abstract landscape
19:05:53  <V453000> I read can't remember if I showed you tits
19:06:03  <V453000> but no you didn't
19:06:18  <andythenorth> this only reflects the state of your mind
19:06:33  <andythenorth> btw, men can’t breast feed, but babies will try anyway
19:06:55  <andythenorth> FYI
19:07:01  <V453000> XD yes I know, someone already told me
19:07:41  <Eddi|zuHause> babies don't care bout your stinking societal gender differences!
19:08:02  <V453000> xd
19:08:10  <andythenorth> they do when they get no result
19:08:56  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so you shuffle the cards and get the wagons in that order?
19:09:12  <andythenorth> yeah, shunting puzzle
19:09:23  <andythenorth> but it was the black background that reminds me of BRIX
19:09:30  <andythenorth> detailed track in undetailed landscape
19:09:32  <andythenorth> good staging
19:10:03  <V453000> ha
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19:19:51  <andythenorth> quak
19:20:59  <frosch123> hola
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19:27:35  <Monkey__> in theory, men can breastfeed. Male breasts have milk ducts, and some mammary tissue. They also have oxytocin and prolactin, the hormones responsible for milk production. There have been reports of men who were able to produce milk through extensive breast and nipple stimulation, but no one knows whether the milk was of the same composition or quality as the kind women produce
19:27:48  <Monkey__> now it is known, we shall put an end to that debate once and for all eh
19:28:09  <Monkey__> source:
19:28:55  <Monkey__> rip google search history
19:33:42  <frosch123> Monkey__: are men allowed to breastfeed in public?
19:34:07  <Ketsuban> what did I walk in on
19:34:59  <andythenorth> ha V453000 these are fricking awesome
19:35:00  <andythenorth>
19:35:08  <V453000> according to gender equality, men should be allowed to breast feed in public
19:35:10  <andythenorth> “every train is compressed to 6cm, regardless of RL length"
19:35:31  <V453000> andythenorth: sick :D
19:35:54  <sim-al2> For reference, those real JR carriages are ~20m long
19:35:58  <andythenorth> chibi trains
19:36:13  <Monkey__> i don't know frsoch123, i don't run the government :D
19:36:40  <Monkey__> well men can go topless, i don't see a problem with breastfeeding in public
19:36:55  <andythenorth> this
19:37:01  <andythenorth> becomes this
19:37:26  * andythenorth is tempted to make a roster where all is 4/8 or 8/8
19:37:55  <Monkey__> that train had a baby?
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19:47:22  <Alberth> nuts made everything equally long :)
19:48:35  <andythenorth> hmm
19:48:53  <andythenorth> if all trains of a certain type go at same speed
19:48:59  <andythenorth> no point in having mail cars?
19:49:01  <andythenorth> just use box car
19:49:31  <Alberth> 1st class mail does like to travel comfortable :p
19:50:04  <V453000> my new train set will have everything 4/8
19:50:24  <V453000> having it consistent is just great and removes confusion for the player
19:51:09  <andythenorth> I am +0.5 to 4/8 or 8/8 lengths
19:51:22  <andythenorth> it’s just a bit too tidy though
19:51:28  <andythenorth> and I want to draw stuff that don’t fit that :P
19:51:45  <Monkey__> goodnight folks! :D
19:51:48  <andythenorth> roster: ‘chibi’
19:52:21  <Alberth> add "miscellaneous" roster :)
19:52:38  <V453000> tidy is good
19:53:14  <V453000> well 6/8 probably isn't a disaster if you like articulate them or something
19:55:57  <V453000> new brix signals wip :D
19:56:40  <V453000> hm from this side combo and entry aren't distinguishable at the top left
19:56:42  <V453000> will solve
19:58:05  <andythenorth> interesting
19:58:15  <Alberth> that what I was looking at too :)
19:58:49  <V453000> some pointers or stripe will fix it
19:59:03  <Alberth> on the down slope behind the depot, there is some yellow leaking into the foundation?
19:59:20  <V453000> yep
19:59:26  <V453000> the joy of semi-transparent sprites
19:59:34  <V453000> probably caused by some hole between ground and foundation
19:59:48  <V453000> I need to do x4 foundations to fix it
20:00:25  <Alberth> for some reason these signals look a lot clearer than the previous one
20:00:46  <Alberth> I think the front is more easily found
20:01:05  <V453000> the some reason is they are 3 times taller :P
20:01:07  <V453000> simply more space
20:01:43  <Alberth> no, I have that with the nuts signals too, I don't see front or back there
20:02:11  <Alberth> so I just use plain electric signals with nuts :)
20:03:20  <Alberth> I do feel you must have made it systematic, and I am just missing it, though :)
20:04:53  <V453000> :)
20:05:45  <V453000> well, there are certainly things to improve, but in general i like the triangle concept
20:05:49  <V453000> stuff visible from all sides
20:07:39  <supermop> V453000: i liked the little cube signals
20:08:29  <V453000> me too, but at x1 they are totally unrecognizable
20:08:31  <V453000> at x2 hardly
20:08:35  <V453000> at x4 not excellent either
20:09:03  <V453000> and I want it to be playable, so clarity is top priority
20:09:05  <andythenorth> track should show the signal :P
20:09:13  <andythenorth> redesign it all
20:09:20  <supermop> i dont think debugging signals at 1x is needed
20:09:21  <andythenorth> colour the track
20:09:28  <V453000> it is supermop
20:09:29  <V453000> absolutely is
20:09:34  <supermop> nah
20:09:38  * andythenorth says words
20:10:27  <V453000> signals have critical importance to how tracks behave
20:10:37  <V453000> being able to tell which is which is the most important job of signals
20:12:15  <Alberth> andy: track colour is already reserved for PURR :p
20:12:47  <V453000> well most importantly signals have positions defined by the game kind of
20:12:52  <V453000> so not much creativity there :P
20:13:05  <Alberth> true
20:15:03  * andythenorth needs a gopher
20:15:32  <andythenorth> looking for African box cars
20:15:33  <andythenorth> can’t find much
20:15:45  <andythenorth> they’re all import, but from Europe, China, India, or USA?
20:15:57  <andythenorth> I need 5 in total, different gauges and generations
20:16:10  <andythenorth> supermop has google skills
? o_O
20:16:13  * andythenorth bored of looking
20:16:16  <supermop> ha
20:16:42  <andythenorth> I found some in Gabon that look unusual
20:17:02  <V453000> XD
20:17:03  <andythenorth> need some more
20:17:12  <V453000> andythenorth is bored to look shit up
20:17:13  <V453000> gg
20:17:33  <andythenorth> I don’t have ‘invent it’ in me :)
20:17:42  <andythenorth> I need something RL to adapt
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20:21:08  <_johannes> hey, if someone wants to discuss it (suggestion for realistic train turnaround):
20:21:21  <supermop> what are you looking for andythenorth ?
20:22:23  <andythenorth> stuff like this
20:22:34  <andythenorth> just to get ideas
20:22:46  <andythenorth> I have 3 out of 5 covered tbh
20:22:56  <andythenorth> I was hoping to find some really big ones, like US highcube
20:23:28  <andythenorth> like silly big
20:23:30  <V453000>
20:23:33  <V453000> moar
20:23:50  <andythenorth> but most of the african ones look like standard euro box cars
20:24:20  <andythenorth> V453000: you have to use the coloured bases for all the presignal crap?
20:24:46  <V453000> have to is a strong word but I think it makes them distinguishable, and suggest what they do
20:24:56  <andythenorth> can you bed them into rail base?
20:25:01  <V453000> though tbh the suggest what they do just got reduced for clarity
20:25:01  <V453000> no
20:25:07  <andythenorth> they look dissociated
20:25:25  <V453000> I will try but I don't think I can do it
20:25:27  <andythenorth> like functionally, they look strong, (I don’t rally look at signals much anwyay)
20:25:28  <V453000> well
20:25:31  <V453000> with some care, they might work
20:25:32  <andythenorth> but they are floating away from track
20:25:48  <V453000> ie, they are used for slopes as well as for flat
20:25:55  <V453000> but some wire might work
20:25:58  <andythenorth> eh ok
20:26:03  <andythenorth> put em on a stick or something
20:26:07  <andythenorth> like the tree base
20:26:13  <V453000> hm
20:26:15  <andythenorth> ha ha, signal trees
20:26:38  <V453000> yeah I will see what can be done about it
20:26:40  <andythenorth> there is a thin tree in your screenshot, would make a great signal
20:26:50  <V453000> point is, more space = clarity, on a stick = nicer
20:26:51  <andythenorth> the leaf shaped one
20:27:09  <V453000> yes
20:27:20  <andythenorth> you have to show the direction I guess
20:27:29  <andythenorth> shame you can’t just colour the whole upper part green / red
20:27:41  <andythenorth> signals have too much function :x
20:27:42  <V453000> almost can but ugly
20:27:54  <V453000> the green/red will be more visible on the top and sides
20:28:01  <V453000> atm at x1 you can't really see it
20:28:39  <andythenorth> and you can’t have a yeti doing this?
20:28:40  <andythenorth> o_O
20:29:19  <V453000> omg XD
20:29:27  <V453000> that is semaphore signals right there
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20:29:56  <V453000> will be done andythenorth
20:30:01  <V453000> no going back now
20:31:57  <V453000> thanks >:]
20:32:19  <andythenorth> there was one in the screenie, on the left, in a hard hat
20:32:20  <andythenorth> gave idea
20:32:36  <V453000> yes
20:32:40  <V453000> I wonder how didn't I think of that
20:32:45  <V453000> perfect candidate
20:42:09  <andythenorth> if I was doing colour light signals, I’d do something like a searchlight signal
20:42:10  <andythenorth>
20:42:15  <andythenorth> but oversized, and stubby
20:42:25  <andythenorth> with the light glow over-emphasised
20:43:25  <V453000> :)
20:43:37  <V453000> yeah but you can't see that from behind/sides hardly
20:43:49  <V453000> and volumetric light going out of it is ugly imo
20:44:17  <V453000> I think I will go with big triangular slabs + yeti signals
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20:46:45  <andythenorth> I guess light coming through back of signal is stupid
20:46:50  * andythenorth rules that out
20:47:17  <V453000> signals need to be stupid in order to work :D
20:47:19  <V453000> simple as that
20:47:32  <V453000> a LED goign all around most of the signal with triangular ends isn't any less stupid :P
20:47:33  <V453000> anyway
20:47:34  <V453000> gnight
20:47:44  <V453000> moar signolz later
20:47:52  <andythenorth> bye
20:55:35  <andythenorth>
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21:17:05  <Alberth> from box-ish engines to box-ish wagons?
21:17:34  <andythenorth> yup
21:17:39  <andythenorth> easy drawing :)
21:17:47  <andythenorth> the work is in making them look nice
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21:22:32  <andythenorth> does the TTD palette include ‘reflective’ o_O
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21:29:33  <Alberth> :o
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21:35:52  <andythenorth> oh dear
21:35:55  <andythenorth> I upset alberth :(
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21:43:01  <andythenorth>
21:44:35  <supermop> i've had steam installed on a computer for 11 or 12 years now, but i don't think i've used it in 4-5 years
21:45:03  <supermop> it's just sitting there quietly taking a little ram and some disk space
21:50:56  <andythenorth> how else will the NSA get in to your laptop?
21:58:18  <supermop> i feel like i should get more service from the nsa for my tax dollars
21:58:25  <supermop> like free tech support
22:01:10  <supermop> need new wellies here
22:01:15  <supermop> mine are leaking
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