Log for #openttd on 5th March 2016:
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00:00:05  <Supercheese>
00:00:07  <Supercheese> et al.
00:00:08  <Salamander> and how does distance affect profit?
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00:00:30  <Supercheese> there's an in-game graph for that
00:00:35  <Supercheese> Cargo Payment Rates
00:00:57  <Salamander> i.e. what is the distance in tiles within which i shoud use trucks, trains or ships?
00:01:02  <Supercheese> or hmm does that factor in distance...
00:01:05  <Salamander> great, i'll read what i can first then
00:01:43  <Supercheese> with default vehicles, trucks should only be used for short distances, they just don't have the capacity for long hauls
00:01:53  <Supercheese> of course newgrf sets can change that
00:02:39  <Salamander> and if i have an oil field and a oil refinery close to each other, and another set of oil refinery + oil well some 100 or 200 tiles away, should i send trucks between each which are close to each other, or should i send trains between those 100 or 200 tiles away?
00:03:11  <Supercheese> if you want maximum profit, use trains and go long-distance
00:03:22  <Supercheese> but profit is easily acquired, so you can really choose which you like better
00:03:27  <Salamander> what about ships? i was never big on ships
00:03:36  <Salamander> but now im older and i feel adventurous :)
00:03:37  <Supercheese> many choices are "do whichever you like best"
00:04:02  <Supercheese> because profit is so easily acquired, many people build for aesthetics and fun rather than efficiency
00:04:18  <Supercheese> although those needn't be mutually exclusive either
00:04:25  <Salamander> i am cursed, i derive fun from efficiency :(
00:04:58  <Supercheese> Indeed, they can certainly go hand in hand
00:05:08  <Salamander> is there a way to know how much maximum a source will produce if i keep sending vehicles to stock up, before i start doing that?
00:05:37  <Salamander> e.g. how much oil i can pick up at an oil well, before i send in trucks or trains to pick it up?
00:08:22  <Supercheese> for default oil wells, the industry window will show you the maximum production per month -- they will never exceed this, but may decrease below it
00:08:31  <Supercheese> other industries can increase, but oil wells do not
00:08:42  <Supercheese> an odd quirk of the game
00:08:59  <Salamander> industry window you say
00:09:07  <Supercheese> click the oil wells
00:09:12  <Supercheese> it'll pop up
00:10:25  <Salamander> aah
00:10:56  <Salamander> hmm
00:11:10  <Salamander> ooh i was checking the wrong thing - the depot
00:11:25  <Salamander> so the depot will never go below 40k liters in this case
00:12:19  <Salamander> and one last question for the day
00:12:39  <Salamander> if i created 5 vehicles, then set orders for the first one, can i somehow copy those orders to the others?
00:13:19  <Salamander> i know i can do that before i buy them, but if i already bought them can i do it afterwards?
00:14:07  <Supercheese> yes, open the orders menu for the other vehicle(s) then choose Go To and ctrl+click on the vehicle whose orders are already set
00:14:25  <Supercheese> that will copy and share the orders between the two vehicles
00:14:58  <Salamander> how neat
00:15:05  <Salamander> i love this game
00:15:23  <Supercheese>
00:15:34  <Salamander> ok i lied, there is actually one more question
00:15:39  <Supercheese> the wiki has little tricks like that buried
00:16:11  <Salamander> there are two new orientations now, at least for truck stations
00:16:26  <Salamander> they look like some sort of pass-through stations
00:16:30  <Salamander> what is the purpose of those?
00:16:40  <Salamander>
00:16:46  <Supercheese> these guys:
00:17:28  <Supercheese> their primary purpose is to accomodate certain newgrf vehicles that cannot use the other types of road stops
00:17:52  <Supercheese> they also enable building bus stops deep in towns without having to bulldoze
00:18:02  <Supercheese> among other things
00:30:31  <Salamander> thank you so much Supercheese
00:30:39  <Supercheese> You're most welcome
00:31:12  <Salamander> this game should be mandatory in contemporary schools :P
00:31:34  <Salamander> need sleep now, good night
00:31:43  <Supercheese> buenas noches
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01:16:52  <drac_boy> hi
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01:25:50  <drac_boy> little non-game topic: how often could a steam locomotive (sorry, we're going ignore the short 0-4-0 variety tho) that had a simple straight boiler aka no tapering or anything?
01:26:01  <drac_boy> that had=had*
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02:45:29  <Eddi|zuHause> did that sentence make any sense to anybody?
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07:50:19  <_johannes> hi
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07:56:28  <andythenorth> o/
07:58:54  <V453000> hy
07:59:40  <greeter> greetings
08:01:38  <V453000> hm x16 zoom would be useful for debugging x4
08:02:35  <greeter> hmm, i'm thinking of trying to run an openttd server, and i found the page but it seems to be a bit outdated. is there a minimum requirements page that is up to date that i can read?
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08:11:26  <V453000> andythenorth: ever did offsets at 4 am in the morning?
08:11:34  <V453000> it's better than usual
08:11:46  <andythenorth> I probably did
08:11:54  <andythenorth> I don’t remember anything from those times, except the pain
08:12:05  <V453000> then you remember everything
08:13:51  <andythenorth> I used to do dumb stuff, like walk into door frames and so on
08:14:29  <V453000> XD
08:15:13  <greeter> walking into doors is dumb? oh dear...
08:17:55  <V453000> haha my vehicles on straight tracks fit the bounding boxes
08:17:57  <V453000> me is proud
08:18:27  <andythenorth> wot larks
08:20:15  <V453000> aliigning x4 zoom is so bullshit that I even resided to using bounding boxes
08:20:19  <V453000> insanity
08:22:27  <andythenorth> now coffee
08:22:32  <V453000> JAVA
08:24:14  <andythenorth> I had to stop drinking tea when I had babies
08:24:21  <andythenorth> I drank so much I lost the taste
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08:25:25  <V453000> :d
08:25:45  <V453000> do babies taste like tea?
08:30:22  <V453000> let's try to make all offsets at x4 divide-able by 5
08:30:25  <V453000> 4*
08:38:15  * andythenorth makes all railcars 8/8
08:38:18  <andythenorth> for tidy stations
08:38:28  <V453000> nice
08:38:37  <V453000> your sanity just progressed :P
08:39:00  <andythenorth> railcar != wagon :P
08:39:10  <V453000> ok wtf is a railcar?
08:39:11  <andythenorth> these bus-on-rails things
08:39:18  <V453000> oh fuck sakes
08:40:28  <V453000> k you get nothing :P
08:43:06  <andythenorth> shame 16/3 isn’t a nice round number
08:43:22  <andythenorth> I could do 3 units in a 1 tile articulated train
08:43:43  <andythenorth> 5/6/5 isn’t worth it
08:44:19  * andythenorth must take child #1 to football
08:44:22  <andythenorth> bbl
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09:43:51  <_johannes> I have the graph exporter now in a first useful version
09:44:08  <_johannes> has someone a C++ compiler and a medium or large map in order to test it?
09:46:01  <_johannes> a C++ compiler is not required if you trust me that I don't send you a virus ;)
10:00:32  <greeter> hmm, i have a c++ compiler, but i'm not sure about the other
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10:08:29  <_johannes> greeter: which OS, and which version is your compiler?
10:09:26  <greeter> ubuntu 15.10 64 bit. i'll get more details in a moment
10:09:51  <_johannes> that should be  sufficient :)
10:10:10  <greeter> gcc version 5.2.1 20151010 (Ubuntu 5.2.1-22ubuntu2) (a ton of compiler switches though. i'll need to pastebin those)
10:11:34  <_johannes> that should work , no need for the switches
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10:11:49  <greeter> alright then
10:11:50  <_johannes> I'll extend the README a bit and send it to you soon
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10:12:40  <greeter> to be honest, i'm rather heavily intoxicated, you may need to smack me several times, sorry :-S
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10:13:22  <_johannes> haha intoxicated with alcohol? :P
10:13:22  <greeter> i'm willing to compile source code though if need be
10:13:38  <greeter> oh yeah... the room is spinning rather rapidly
10:14:31  <_johannes> lol...
10:18:34  <greeter> back, sorry about the delay, i fell down the stairs twice
10:20:03  <_johannes> :)
10:20:14  <_johannes> can you run "dot" in a shell? what does it say?
10:20:22  <greeter> i'll check
10:20:40  <greeter> The program 'dot' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
10:20:40  <greeter> sudo apt-get install graphviz
10:20:47  <greeter> i'll install it if need be
10:22:21  <_johannes> greeter: yes, it's currently required
10:22:44  <greeter> ok, i'll try installing it now. if other installation instructions are required, please let me know
10:22:52  <_johannes> should not
10:23:02  <_johannes> I have the code here now:
10:23:07  <_johannes> README:
10:23:35  <greeter> hmm. i'm fetching 12.4 Mb of data right now, but i'll check that file
10:24:31  <greeter> it installed before i could read it. so what's next?
10:24:57  <_johannes> what do you mean by the last sentence?
10:25:18  <_johannes> ah I get it
10:25:21  <_johannes> ok :)
10:25:40  <greeter> i installed a package called graphviz, taking up an additional 12.4 megs of data, before i could read the file you showed me
10:26:25  <greeter> anyhow, what needs to be done now?
10:26:57  <_johannes> try cloning: git clone
10:27:00  <greeter> as a heads up, if i shouldn't have gotten this far now, don't worry about it. after all, if i shouldn't have gotten this far before, why am i this far now?
10:27:41  <_johannes> and then maybe just try to do what's in the
10:27:44  <greeter> cloning into a directory. because i'm on slow internet, this may take a while
10:27:47  <_johannes> see "Installation"
10:28:29  <_johannes> I'd like to find out if the README is self-explanatory
10:28:40  <greeter> the git link you gave me is currently 14 percent done, so this may take a long time :-S
10:29:12  <_johannes> the progress bar sometimes jumps up many percents at once, don't worry
10:29:48  <greeter> it looks to me like the total download size is approximately 175 megabytes
10:30:04  <greeter> that will take me some time to fetch
10:30:36  <greeter> i'm willing to fetch it, just saying that i'm on a really slow connection, so it may take some time
10:30:45  <_johannes> np ;)
10:31:25  <greeter> or i may be misreading this and finding out that it's actually fetching at 186 kilobtytes per second, therefore not taking long :-S
10:31:55  <greeter> do i need to remove previous installations of openttd?
10:33:09  <_johannes> no
10:33:15  <greeter> ok
10:33:20  <_johannes> have you ever installed/compiled programs on linux?
10:33:34  <greeter> i've compiled numerous programs
10:33:49  <greeter> i have cloned the repo. what do i do now?
10:34:10  <_johannes> go into the directory you've cloned it
10:34:13  <greeter> i have cd'd into OpenTTD
10:34:30  <_johannes> then: CC=clang CXX=clang++ ./configure --prefix=/where/you/want/to/install/it --enable-debug=3
10:34:53  <_johannes> (I have installed it in /home/johannes/cprogs/openttd/install or something)
10:35:07  <Xaroth|Work>*BSD
10:35:07  <greeter> i'll run the first one
10:35:38  <greeter> the CC environment variable is set, but it doesn't seem to be a gcc binary
10:35:38  <greeter> please redefine the CC/CXX environment to a gcc binary'
10:35:45  <greeter> i'll check the page
10:36:02  <Xaroth|Work> the page pretty much shows step-by-step what to do
10:36:51  <_johannes> greeter: you can also use CC=gcc CXX=g++ ...
10:37:06  <greeter> i seem to be a bit lost i'm afraid :-S i'm sorry. i'll try that though
10:37:43  <_johannes> ah np, either do that or install "clang" on ubuntu, it's both ok
10:38:10  <_johannes> thanks Xaroth|Work
10:38:14  <greeter> i'm afraid i'm a bit behind on the times. is clang a script argument?
10:38:29  <_johannes> it's another compiler like gcc
10:38:48  <greeter> ok
10:39:32  <greeter> hmm... i'm sorry, i'm afraid i'm totally lost. would it help if i gave you the command i was using?
10:39:49  <_johannes> yes
10:40:30  <greeter> ok, the command i fed it was this: CC=clang CXX=clang++ ./configure --prefix=/where/you/want/to/install/it --enable-debug=3
10:40:47  <_johannes> try "clang" in commandline, is it installed?
10:40:49  <greeter> and i got the following 4 lines
10:40:50  <greeter> detecting OS... UNIX
10:40:50  <greeter> checking build system type... clang unusable
10:40:50  <greeter> the CC environment variable is set, but it doesn't seem to be a gcc binary
10:40:50  <greeter> please redefine the CC/CXX environment to a gcc binary
10:41:09  <greeter> it says clang is not currently installed
10:41:17  <_johannes> ok greeter , just try CC=gcc CXX=g++ ./configure --prefix=/where/you/want/to/install/it --enable-debug=3
10:41:20  <_johannes> or install clang
10:41:25  <greeter> ok
10:41:26  <_johannes> (whatever you prefer)
10:41:37  <greeter> i'll try to install clang
10:42:06  <greeter> it says i need to get 212 megs of data. this could take some time :-S sorry
10:42:10  <_johannes> :P
10:42:15  <_johannes> ok then just use gcc
10:42:23  <_johannes> that should also work
10:42:33  <greeter> after grabbing the needed data?
10:42:50  <_johannes> no, I mean, if you don't want to way that long
10:43:00  <_johannes> then don't get clang, use gcc: CC=gcc CXX=g++ ./configure --prefix=/where/you/want/to/install/it --enable-debug=3
10:43:22  <greeter> well i seem to be getting the data
10:45:06  <greeter> i'll figure this one out
10:45:17  <_johannes> ok, if you have difficulties, just ask
10:46:21  <greeter> well i'm just fetching. wait till compilation :-P
10:47:06  <greeter> configure: error: no video driver development files found
10:47:18  <greeter> i have a fairly modern system. how can i fix this?
10:47:29  <_johannes> oh good question...
10:48:25  <greeter> i'll download the required files but i am a bit pressed for time :-S
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10:49:23  <_johannes> hmm I really have no idea what that error means :(
10:49:38  <_johannes> what are you downloading? clang
10:50:16  <greeter> oh dear :-S hmm... well to be honest, i'm not sure... i'm rather intoxicated at this point :-S
10:50:58  <_johannes> I've an idea
10:51:43  <_johannes> try installing libsdl1.2-dev"
10:51:50  <_johannes> without the "
10:54:22  <greeter> installing
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10:55:51  <greeter> configured with the switch "--without-liblzo2"
10:56:07  <_johannes> that should be fine
10:56:17  <greeter> it's compiling
10:56:28  <_johannes> so if you configured successfully, try make and then make install
10:56:43  <greeter> doing make now
10:56:43  <_johannes> ok good, that can take
10:57:05  <greeter> it's compiling the files :-D
10:58:17  <_johannes> do you compile with gcc or clang?
10:58:49  <greeter> to be honest, i'm not sure what is being used
10:59:07  <_johannes> :D
11:00:26  <greeter> currently i'm listening to ann margret singing a song for the flintstones. i'm out of it enough to think that i have no idea where on earth this train of thought this is going
11:00:57  <_johannes> ok pls let me know when you've done "make install"
11:01:57  <greeter> still on make atm
11:02:17  <greeter> nergrf.cpp right now
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11:13:21  <_johannes> greeter: how far is it?
11:13:42  <_johannes> you can also abort and try make -j <number of cores you have>
11:14:14  <greeter> linking seems to be done. i'll try make
11:15:05  <greeter> hmm, i can't seem to make it work right now. i'll bbl
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12:33:08  <Wolf01|Phone> o/
12:33:55  <Alberth> hi hi
12:33:56  <Wolf01|Phone> Trains here are wonderful :D
12:34:22  <Alberth> we need a video link, or pictures :p
12:34:59  <Alberth> visiting a museum or so?
12:35:46  <Wolf01|Phone> Right now I'm in hotel, its 21.35 now
12:36:20  <Eddi|zuHause> japan?
12:36:56  <Wolf01|Phone> But I visited some temples and palaces in Kobe, Osaka, Nara and now I'm in Kyoto
12:39:03  <Wolf01|Phone> The railways are built a bit strange, they have 2 or 3 different railways for different operators for the same route, usually built at 100-200 meters of distance
12:39:22  <Wolf01|Phone> It really looks a waste of space
12:39:47  <Eddi|zuHause> well, if there's anything the japanese have plenty of, it's space... oh, wait.
12:40:03  <Wolf01|Phone> Eheh :D
12:41:21  <Eddi|zuHause> btw have you seen this?
12:42:01  <Wolf01|Phone> It's really cool that everything works like a metro, trains every 3-5 minutes and metro EMUs everywhere
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12:43:51  <andythenorth> oh he gone
12:43:52  <andythenorth>
12:43:57  * andythenorth was going to post
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12:46:10  <Wolf01|Phone> Mmh stupid irc client
12:46:22  <Wolf01|Phone> Nice video :P
12:47:35  <Wolf01|Phone> Also I've seen the longest suspended bridge, it's really huge
12:48:45  <andythenorth> Wolf01|Phone:
12:48:55  <Wolf01|Phone> What do you achieved this week? Made some pixels?
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12:49:13  <andythenorth> some small ones
12:51:20  <Wolf01|Phone> Eheh, I know the Tokyo's railways, I'm studying them because I'm moving there in 2 days
12:56:39  <Wolf01|Phone> Ok boys, I'll leave soon, we'll see again in a week, or sooner if I'll be able to connect in decent hours ;)
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12:57:17  <andythenorth> \o
12:57:26  <andythenorth> bye Wolf01|Phone
12:57:36  <Alberth> bye
12:57:44  <Alberth> and hi andy :)
12:57:57  <Alberth> and Eddi
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13:21:02  * andythenorth must sell some trains
13:21:06  <andythenorth> but maybe not today
13:24:41  <_johannes> If a train goes from station A to B via a depot, would you say that the connection A->B should be drawn in a route network?
13:25:08  <_johannes> in reality, trains don't go to depots when they have passengers inside...
13:26:39  <_johannes> on the other hand, some game player may have games where A->B is only reachable via a depot?
13:28:24  <Eddi|zuHause> you should probably handle that case
13:28:58  <Eddi|zuHause> also, conditional orders and stuff
13:29:06  <_johannes> you mean that A->depot->B should be drawn as a usual route?
13:30:23  <Eddi|zuHause> consider this case: player has turning around in stations disabled, and puts depots at the end of the platform, with "goto A; goto B" orders. the trains will always go to depot
13:31:06  <_johannes> ah true!
13:31:34  <_johannes> also... do many player use depots as waypoints, or is it more likely to use waypoints as waypoints?
13:31:54  <_johannes> ah, dumb question
13:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> you should really not concern yourself with "which one do more players do". if the game mechanics allow it, someone will do it.
13:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you should take the compiler construction approach here: it doesn't matter if the specs make sense. you implement them letter by letter.
13:35:28  <_johannes> ok
14:04:42  <fonsinchen>  _johannes: You might check how cargodist does that. I've solved the exact same problem when doing the link prediction
14:04:50  <fonsinchen> You can just use that code.
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14:21:40  <_johannes> fonsinchen: What problem have you solved there?
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14:26:01  <drac_boy> hi
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14:43:15  <Alberth> sequence of stations visited by a train, would be my guess
14:43:35  <Alberth> since you need that to route cargo
14:46:26  <_johannes> ah, that problem is already solved
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14:57:51  <drac_boy> hi mr.trainnut? hehe
15:02:11  <sim-al2> oh hai
15:02:56  <drac_boy> how doing?
15:03:03  <sim-al2> I'm good
15:04:20  <drac_boy> btw have I ever told you that I sometimes just don't understand some of the uk steam locomotives especially for having so few drivers etc?
15:04:50  <sim-al2> 2-2-2 seems especially suspect
15:05:01  <sim-al2> *Welcome to SLIP CITY*
15:05:47  <drac_boy> heres another one where part of the boiler and most of that coal are sitting over dead axles
15:06:21  <sim-al2> You basically have to do that on tank locomotives though, that's probably a suburban design
15:06:53  <drac_boy> well the 0-6-0T were used in a lot of pushpull and never had any issues, and thats 100% drivers :)
15:07:20  <drac_boy> not to mention the 'ducks' handling these autocoaches as well
15:07:20  <sim-al2> Those locomotives had to run full speed in either direction, so the support axle helps there
15:07:40  <sim-al2> 0-6-0 isn't particularly stable at speed though
15:08:11  <sim-al2> Hence the popularity of 2 and 4 wheel pilot trucks
15:08:34  <drac_boy> well they somehow ran them a lot tho which is all I can seem to say, especially a 0-6-0T terrier sharing the line with a mallard 0_o
15:09:32  <drac_boy> admittly these drowsy looking freight 0-6-0 tenders ended up on local passenger trains a few times early on, not sure what anyone thought there
15:09:52  <drac_boy> at least as they were local I guess they probably only had branch speeds to contend with
15:11:03  <sim-al2> Yeah, branch lines often didn't have especially high scheduled speeds in that era
15:13:21  <drac_boy> btw this at least is one reasonable tank locomotive ;) especially the big water weight directly onto drivers and just a little bit of unpowered weight behind the cab floor
15:13:59  <drac_boy> I forgot the nickname a magazine mentioned for these but it started with "big ____" something (doesn't surprise me seeing how there was the Big Bertha itself after all)
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15:17:39  <drac_boy> mind you if you want something thats built to just go slow all the times, try a 0-4-0 with optional small water saddle and otherwise an equally-as-long-as-the-loco-itself little coal tender behind :)
15:17:49  <drac_boy> the ffestington line not surprisingly had a few exactly like that
15:18:58  <drac_boy> heres an interesting one with the boiler almost lost among all that water frame
15:20:09  <sim-al2> Hmm, that tender looks more like a mine cart
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15:21:08  <drac_boy> yeah 2-axle tenders were sometimes a bit more crude than usual
15:21:58  <drac_boy> in some instances it really used to be a 0-4-0T with small bunker but someone wised up and torch out the rear and throw a built-up flatcar or stripped down mineral car behind it to carry much more coal instead
15:22:13  <drac_boy> (even usa did that for their industrial lines a long time ago too)
15:25:22  <sim-al2> One of the LSWR Class 415 4-4-2Ts was used for almost 50 years on a small branchline whose curves prevented larger locomotives from operating
15:26:23  <sim-al2> Sorry, two. They were built in the mid-1880's, and one became the last surviving member of the class, long enough to be preserved
15:26:41  <drac_boy> no 0-6-0T with lateral motion? but hm actually you remind me of a different story which I recall was even in uk too...
15:27:08  <sim-al2> They eventually fixed the curves so that 2-6-2T's could run
15:27:23  <sim-al2> But the branch line closed 4 years later, in 1965
15:27:35  <drac_boy> one branchline had a rather low tunnel under road or something to that effect where it couldn't be daylighted or so ... and the few locomotives assigned to stay on this line had their cab roof literally chopped down a bit which explained why they outlasted the conventional versions which were scrapped a long time ago
15:28:18  <drac_boy> the line finally closed which bought the end of needing these "low height" locomotives, all scrapped a short time later
15:29:48  <sim-al2> The viaduct still exists though:
15:31:48  <sim-al2> It's the Lyme Regis branch line, sufiiciently steep and curved enough that both engines needed to pull the six coach trains
15:31:53  <drac_boy> btw I can't recall which class it was but there was one fleet of larger tank locomotives that were often used for suburban duty too .. story was that one was to be sent to the works for gauge cutdown as to be shipped to an island railway but this never happened and eventually the locomotive was moved to another shed before it finally got preserved and in that case it finally had its first coal-steamup test last year
15:32:07  <sim-al2> The later 2-6-2Ts could do it with one engine though
15:32:14  <drac_boy> wonder what kind of gauge work would had been required had it actually been carried out!
15:35:04  <drac_boy> (because with the tank locomotive there doesn't seem to be a lot you can really do about clearance, even the cab roof is almost touching the boiler's top too on some classes)
15:39:59  <drac_boy> either way slight change of topic: heres a tank that was designed to go fast in the first place,
15:40:17  <drac_boy> always did find it a bit unique for re having no tender which one normally always expect
15:41:18  <sim-al2> Seems that fuel could be a problem, but.... damn, haven't seen a streamlined tank before
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15:43:42  <drac_boy> well fuel wasn't an issue when it was basically kinda like a "kangaroo" route, that is hop fast between only a few major points
15:51:18  <drac_boy> btw I'm not sure but I suspect it was designed for bidirectional running as otherwise why else would they had wrapped the coal bunker in a round curve?
15:58:08  <drac_boy> heres something thats not quite a tank locomotive but is quite queer to us people nowaday still heh and yeah thats the low-cost water tank near left side
16:17:54  <drac_boy> either way have fun with whatever else you might had been doing..I'm going for now mainly re food
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16:19:03  <_johannes> hmm just found out that you can have multiple trains in one group, even if they have different order lists
16:19:33  <_johannes> it even makes sense, but is there a way to assign one common order to all trains in one group?
16:27:55  <Alberth> not that I know
16:28:32  <Alberth> but I never use groups, so I am not terribly interested in its capabilities
16:29:49  <_johannes> hmm I find the feature practical for naming trains
16:30:07  <_johannes> the group is displayed above each train
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16:37:11  <Alberth> ah, never give trains a name
16:37:30  <Alberth> I just buy enough until all cargo gets moved :)
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16:54:20  <Hiddenfunstuff> too much of micromanagement of naming trains and grouping them
17:19:42  <Alberth> depends on how you play the game
17:20:33  <Alberth> if you model a real company if full detail, it fits your game play
17:21:10  <Alberth> if you just build tracks and move cargo, it doesn't fit (imho)
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17:53:48  <Dakkus> Alberth: I kind of like giving train lines names. But giving individual names is pointless, because each train already has an unique identifier.
17:55:33  <Alberth> Ha, that's a new one, but I can see it could be useful
17:57:07  <Dakkus> There even a mechanism for that.
17:57:23  <Dakkus> Create a new train group, drag one of the trains into that.
17:58:13  <Dakkus> Then choose that group and in the drop-down menu in the bottom of the screen choose "All trains with shared orders"
17:58:29  <Dakkus> Then give the groups ome shortish identifier.
17:58:37  <Dakkus> one*
17:59:50  <Dakkus> Especially since I like to play with a maximum size map and very low population density, I end up having very important long trunk lines with up to 30 train consists serving one line.
18:00:19  <Dakkus> (Also, my daylengthfactor is set to 9)
18:02:20  <Dakkus> In the last 20 years I've gotten totally fed up with 90% of the map being covered by a single continuous railway intersection.
18:03:09  <Alberth> :)
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18:04:00  <Dakkus> For the record, OTTD was the third game I ever bought in my life.
18:04:01  <Alberth> I tend to get very much lost at large maps
18:04:07  <rapower> hi all Somthimes on ubuntu openttd does not save the game
18:04:27  <rapower> its so frustrating if you load the old one and see 1gameyear ore more lost
18:04:42  <Alberth> Dakkus: I hope you mean TTD, OpenTTD is free :)
18:04:55  <Alberth> rapower:  disk-space?
18:05:03  <Dakkus> rapower: I'm far from an expert but that sounds very much like what has been complained to be idiotic behaviour n the ext4 filesystem.
18:05:12  <Dakkus> alberth: Indeed :D
18:05:51  <rapower> i save at every year pop up
18:06:10  <rapower>  and it worked well for 15game years now it missed up at 16
18:06:42  <rapower> there is 60GB free space
18:07:25  <rapower> Alberth:  512x512 is best to play
18:08:05  <Alberth> I usually play 256x512, or 512x512
18:08:21  <Alberth> 128x1024 can be fun too :)
18:08:21  <Dakkus> rapower: No fanciness such as user quotas on your system?
18:08:35  <Alberth> or 64x64  :p
18:08:43  <Alberth> no space for trains, really :)
18:08:50  <rapower> workes fine here Dakkus  in standard mode
18:09:12  <rapower> ok i see thats a known problem i got to live with
18:09:35  <Dakkus> Hmm, googled it? Interesting. A known problem in what?
18:09:38  <rapower> its triggy if you hit the 500 train mark
18:09:50  <Dakkus> Uh-oh, good to know.
18:09:59  <Dakkus> I've got some 60 at the moment.
18:10:05  <Dakkus> 650.
18:10:38  <rapower> i set the limits to 500 more cool playing to get free trains on piling stock
18:11:04  <rapower> ok im off GN8 late in germany
18:11:08  <Dakkus> When you play with the x-USSR set you have to pile stok :D
18:11:18  <Dakkus> Ehh... Late? :D
18:11:31  <Dakkus> It's 20:11 in Ukraine.
18:11:38  <Dakkus> Or my clock is wrong?
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18:12:16  <Alberth> depending on how early to need to get up tomorrow I guess :)
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18:12:39  <Dakkus> Yeah, but it's only a bit later than 19 in Germany.
18:12:58  <Dakkus> I'm scared of perverts such as them!
18:13:13  <Alberth> :)
18:13:18  <Dakkus> I remember when I crossed a stae border on the motorway in Germany.
18:14:04  <Dakkus> And it said "Der Land der FrÃŒhaufsteher" ("The land of the early-wake-upper")
18:14:24  <Dakkus> I don't want to see that monster, so it's a good thing the sign warns of it. But it was still a shock!
18:15:03  <Dakkus> There's of course the positive thing that it's a danger only half a day. After the first half of the time I'm awake, it's already sleeping.
18:16:42  <Alberth> Hmm, I feel I must warn you, I get up early too :)
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18:20:44  <Alberth>  haha, save problem on ubuntu, oh let's use root instead :p
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18:30:21  <_johanne1> what is the encoding for openttd strings?
18:30:39  <Alberth> utf-8
18:30:52  <_johanne1> thanks
18:31:44  <Alberth> but you're using the web interface right?
18:31:57  <_johanne1> no
18:32:07  <Alberth> ah, ok
18:32:07  <_johanne1> I just grep strings from savegames
18:32:27  <Alberth> there are even strings there?
18:32:38  <Alberth> it's mostly binary data, compressed
18:33:14  <_johanne1> not directly, but there are numbers for cargo, and in the sources, there are strings for what the numbers mean
18:33:23  <_johanne1> I export these strings with the graph exporter
18:34:43  <Alberth> hmm, wouldn't that fail with newgrf industries?  unless you mean amounts of cargoes, I guess
18:36:13  <_johanne1> what I mean is "oil", "passengers" etc
18:36:33  <_johanne1> for most of my games, there are only ~ 10 cargoes ever transported
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18:42:33  <Alberth> play a game with FIRS :)
18:43:12  <Alberth> but then the industry newgrf defines the cargoes, and with it all strings
18:43:34  <Alberth> you only keep the 4 letter identification I think
18:43:56  <_johanne1> what is FIRS?
18:44:50  <Alberth> first column
18:45:31  <_johanne1> cool :(
18:45:34  <_johanne1> *:)
18:45:36  <Alberth>
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27521 trunk/src/lang/malay.txt (2016-03-05 19:45:38 +0100 )
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> malay: 5 changes by rionix88
18:46:00  <_johanne1> languages really suck
18:46:10  <_johanne1> why can not all people speak the same language?
18:46:29  <_johanne1> setlocale() does not have any effect
18:46:35  <_johanne1> with UTF-8
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18:46:44  <Alberth> they can, if only we would agree on which language that would be
18:47:21  <Alberth> and then you have the "minor" problem that some languages have concepts that do not exist at all in other languages
18:47:55  <Alberth> eg people in greenland have lots of words for different forms of snow and ice
18:48:17  <Alberth> I think people living in the desert have a lot less of such words :)
18:48:36  <_johanne1> lol
18:50:16  <Alberth> I don't know what you're doing, but save games do not contain much text, unless you mean text of eg trains that you gave a name
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19:04:49  <_johanne1> Alberth: I don't know either :)
19:05:51  <_johanne1> my program just did output the cargo names from STR_JUST_CARGO_LIST , but some German letters are looking wrong
19:06:11  <planetmaker> but wth are you trying to do?
19:06:30  <_johanne1> SetDParam(0, 1 << carg->Index()); GetString(buf, STR_JUST_CARGO_LIST, lastof(buf)); file.cargo_names.insert(std::make_pair(carg->Index(), buf));
19:06:40  <planetmaker> why grep the savegame for strings when you get them from the source code of all related programmes and NewGRFs?
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19:07:06  <_johanne1> I did get the strings from the source, like above
19:07:27  <_johanne1> after the code I showed you I just std::cout the file.cargo_names
19:08:15  <Alberth> carg->IsValid()  checked?
19:08:24  <_johanne1> Alberth: yes
19:08:43  <_johanne1> it's just Ãl instead of Öl (German for "oil")
19:09:08  <Alberth> looks like X liter to me
19:09:38  <_johanne1> np, I'll just have to find out how setlocale() works
19:12:32  <Alberth> ah, right
19:13:18  <Alberth> LOCALE=<something> ./openttd     iirc, but I never really bothered with locale stuff
19:13:44  <Alberth> it's the first thing I disable, since it gets in the way when editing souce code
19:13:47  <Alberth> *source
19:14:37  <planetmaker> but... the locale shouldn't matter really, _johanne1 as you can set your preferred language in the game options - independent of locale
19:15:21  <_johanne1> planetmaker: I know, but the exact problem is this:
19:15:35  <_johanne1> I have a German game with things like Kohle, Öl, Passagiere
19:15:47  <planetmaker> _johanne1, from when I still had an ubuntu running, I know that it messed up fonts generally after hibernation. It was an ubuntu 14.x.
19:16:12  <_johanne1> hmm I only did s2ram
19:16:42  <planetmaker> it was ticking me off enough that I replaced my ubuntu by fedora ;)
19:17:07  <_johanne1> now, there should be a way for the converter to specify what kind of cargoes you'd like int the graph: "mkgraph --cargo=Passagiere,Kohle"
19:17:57  <_johanne1> since the exporter does not link again openttd, it must know what "Kohle" actually is, which is why I store the word "Kohle" in the binary files that the converter expects
19:19:08  <_johanne1> it's like this: openttd -> binary data (including string like "Öl") -> converter -> graph
19:21:05  <_johanne1> anyways, maybe I'll just use English strings, most Germans probably understand what "passengers" means
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19:35:21  <Alberth> o/
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20:42:04  <Eddi|zuHause> _johanne1: as long as openttd exports the language string correctly, it shouldn't matter what string or language it actually is
20:42:25  <Eddi|zuHause> _johanne1: note that NewGRFs can change all cargos, so you can't rely on external data
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21:40:33  <_johanne1> Eddi|zuHause: yes, this is also why I want to put the strings into the file
21:40:47  <_johanne1> that way, there's no need to rely on what cargo the game offers
21:41:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i meant: just write out whatever language openttd is currently set to.
21:41:52  <Eddi|zuHause> or potentially the 4-letter cargo label, for more technically inclined people
21:43:13  <Eddi|zuHause> (incomplete) list of cargo labels:
21:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause> note that it's actually just a 32-bit number, using 4 letters is just a convention
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22:07:50  <_johanne1> ok, I'll probably use those 4-letter cargo labels, good point
22:07:59  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
22:07:59  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 8 hours, 46 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <andythenorth> but maybe not today
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23:48:41  <drac_boy> hi

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