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00:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> there's probably a --with(out)-lzo switch in ./configure 00:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but i have no clue how config.lib works 00:17:27 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 00:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> lzo is really only used for loading old savegames 00:30:42 <Eddi|zuHause> so if it's for personal use, you can probably live without it, but for a general audience you should maybe include it 00:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd expect it to work like "--with-lzo=<location>" 00:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> ("old savegames" may include the title game) 01:06:31 *** LadyHawk- [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 01:10:04 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:10:06 *** LadyHawk- is now known as LadyHawk 01:15:40 *** Quatroking_ [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:58 <suitsmeveryfine> Eddi: I'm not sure if you're still here but, yes, it's for general use. 01:38:49 <suitsmeveryfine> I can build successfully only with the "without" switch enabled. GuixSD is a quite different type of GNU/Linux distro where package names don't stay the same because they contain a unique hash. Therefore I can't easily make use of "--with-lzo=<location>" 01:40:19 <suitsmeveryfine> I'm going AFK now, but thanks for answering my question. 01:40:40 <suitsmeveryfine> Good night 01:41:16 *** suitsmeveryfine [~oftc-webi@c-5af870d5.029-10-67626721.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:54:03 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:09:53 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #openttd 02:10:33 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [] 02:23:03 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:44 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:40:42 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:33:25 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 05:44:00 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-157-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:11:13 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 06:14:44 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:16:32 *** MonkeyDrone [~Monkey@82.194.56.214] has joined #openttd 06:25:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 06:30:09 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d0254c3.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 06:37:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:55:02 <andythenorth> o/ 07:05:45 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 07:10:12 <peter1138> no 07:10:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A183C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:18:04 <peter1138> grrr, waited ages for delivery, then it gets delivered on a saturday... to work address... 07:18:20 <peter1138> (so rather, not delivered) 07:43:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:54:07 <V453000> btw, the shit with train stretching from openttd, on drugs https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-133 08:01:15 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 08:01:18 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:03:17 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 08:03:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A183C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:50 <peter1138> yikes 08:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so your squares are not actually square, but you'd still like it to occupy exactly a "square"? 08:28:33 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 08:50:17 *** Quatroking_ [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 08:50:58 *** Quatroking is now known as Guest10836 08:50:58 *** Quatroking_ is now known as Quatroking 08:55:22 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:57:39 *** Guest10836 [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:13:32 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host11-55-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:14:10 <Wolf01> o/ 09:17:07 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 09:30:01 <V453000> yeah pretty much Eddi|zuHause 09:31:27 <V453000> same as what it does in openttd, you want the train look like it takes half a tile on diagonals, basically 09:35:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:37:55 <Wolf01> V453000: https://eu3.factorio.com/assets//img/blog/fff-133-train-stop-vertical.jpg, why not just using a bounding box for the train base to know where inserters can load instead of making the top inserter load on the wagon roof? so you can use a longer graphic to fill the gap 09:38:34 <V453000> well there will even be a helper GUI to clearly see which inserter loads from which 09:38:38 <V453000> but the graphics are the actual issue 09:40:38 <Wolf01> I think the graphics shouldn't be directly used as boundingbox for the functionality 09:41:11 <V453000> but how do you think to fill the gap? stretched graphics, fillers, bigger gaps between wagons? 09:41:24 <V453000> making it look nice with either or all of those things is the challenge 09:41:30 <Wolf01> I'll make a picture 09:43:17 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 09:43:21 <Samu> hi 09:47:38 <Wolf01> V453000, https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=D5D7348BE1780505!23524&authkey=!ADwe-pyzZEwqRXU&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg 09:48:09 <V453000> yes 09:48:22 <V453000> the issue is to make the transition from shorter to longer train look nice 09:48:33 <V453000> I believe I will be able to solve it as I did similar tests in openttd, but it isn't easy 09:48:38 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d0254c3.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:56:28 <Wolf01> I like the idea of the limit of 6 inserters and fixing the vertical length with the graphic stretching it could be a good option, the wagon looks like rubber on the gif, but you don't really see wagons rotating in that way on the game (or are you planning to add turntables?) and I think you won't even notice the stretching 10:09:02 <V453000> lol at turntables 10:09:04 <V453000> and yes 10:09:14 <V453000> *no to turntables :P 10:09:24 <Wolf01> it will break hard the station layouts, but who cares? 10:09:54 <Wolf01> it's the target of the game to actually build and rebuild and rebuild and rebuild everything 10:13:25 <V453000> well 0.13 has so many features that the idea of keeping compatibility is pretty overruled :D 10:13:34 <V453000> it should be mostly compatible but... 10:17:02 <Wolf01> it happened with the belts-unloading-on-the-ground too and the inserters loading point on 0.12 10:17:16 <Wolf01> we lived with that :) 10:22:00 <V453000> yes 10:36:47 <Samu> hey guys, today i'm investigating openttd memory usage when saving a game 10:37:28 <Samu> some interesting results 10:38:34 <Samu> there's the whole raw game state + the memcopy + mem used by lzma 10:39:00 <Samu> that's quite some overhead 10:41:47 <Samu> on 32-bit copy of open ttd, the 4096x4096 map size is frightening 10:42:11 <Samu> it borders up to 1.700k for openttd.exe process 10:42:47 <andythenorth> power plant accepts coal eh? 10:42:55 <andythenorth> I love these heisenbugs 10:42:58 <andythenorth> theyâre just great 10:43:29 <andythenorth> perhaps my text editor is transposing this? accept_cargo_types: [cargotype("COAL")]; 10:43:35 <Samu> does openttd actually crash with out of memory? do u get such crash reports? 10:43:43 <andythenorth> perhaps on disk, the bytes have actually been written for âBEERâ 10:43:49 <andythenorth> but my OS is lying to me? 10:44:01 <planetmaker> Samu, yes, that happens 10:44:34 <Samu> i see :o 10:44:42 <planetmaker> Samu, if it tries to allocate memory it needs, but it can't get it, then it has no other option than to stop working 10:45:25 <planetmaker> the crash report will tell you that it failed because of OOM 10:46:06 <planetmaker> 256M was too little for our server with 1k^2 maps 10:50:43 <Samu> is there a limit for AI mem usage? some years ago, they could allocate whatever they wanted, was this changed? 10:53:54 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 10:54:49 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-8-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:01:45 <Samu> if i can figure out the memcopy size, i can isolate and calculate the mem used by lzma only 11:02:00 <Samu> it appears to be ~18MB 11:02:33 <Samu> memcopy is by my estimate, ~170+ MB 11:04:16 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-157-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:07:49 <Samu> ok memcopy was 174.924k 11:09:02 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 11:09:23 <Samu> 888.832 + 174.924 + x = 1.079.204 11:09:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ 11:09:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 11:09:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v planetmaker] by ChanServ 11:09:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v Terkhen] by ChanServ 11:09:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v SmatZ] by ChanServ 11:09:36 <Samu> x = lzma mem usage 11:09:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 11:10:54 <Samu> x = 15.448 11:11:06 <Samu> not bad :o 11:13:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ 11:15:55 *** MonkeyDrone2 [~Monkey@88.201.73.234] has joined #openttd 11:16:29 *** txtsd [~txtsd@198.23.246.143] has joined #openttd 11:21:53 *** MonkeyDrone [~Monkey@82.194.56.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:25:31 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-157-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:39:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:58:58 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6a312.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 12:12:02 <Wolf01> V453000, do you know if it is in the air a change about the chests slot reservation/limit? It would be really cool to reservate quickly a bunch of slots for the same item (I usually fill the wagons with wooden crate and then change only the slots I need) 12:22:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:25:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 12:41:32 <Samu> 16.432k 12:43:19 <Samu> 16.432k +/- 920k 12:44:49 <Samu> i can pinpoint openttd lzma mem usage to about 16.432KB +/- 920KB 12:48:26 <Samu> memcopy was 173.016KB +/- 920KB 12:49:18 <Samu> and the rest of openttd process was 888.452KB +/- 920KB 12:52:08 <Samu> 888.452KB + 173.016KB + 16.432KB = 1.077.900KB +/- 920KB total peak mem usage for creating a savegame 12:53:21 <Samu> of a map sized 4096x4096 without any transport services being run yet 12:55:54 *** MonkeyDrone2 [~Monkey@88.201.73.234] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:39 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 13:11:41 <drac_boy> hi 13:21:13 <Samu> hi 13:22:27 <drac_boy> how doing? 13:50:42 <Samu> I'm doing stuff no one cares about 13:53:30 <drac_boy> heh? 13:54:48 <drac_boy> anyway going for a bit..may be bakc later 13:54:51 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 14:05:25 <Samu> is the raw uncompressed data from a savegame a hash chain or a binary tree? or does this question make no sense? 14:12:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:22:23 <Samu> anyone knows? 14:30:15 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 14:30:18 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 14:36:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:38:20 <peter1138> it's raw data 14:40:08 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 14:41:38 <andythenorth> is cat 14:41:44 <andythenorth> almost certainly 14:41:46 <andythenorth> most things is 14:42:32 <Alberth> o/ 14:42:46 <Alberth> solved the alcohol mystery? 14:43:13 <andythenorth> nah 14:43:55 <andythenorth> not a clue 14:46:09 <andythenorth> canât even repro it by changing grfs (or parameters) on a running game 14:46:32 <Alberth> works for me too 14:46:46 <andythenorth> itâs a bug in openttd, or a bug in the bug report 14:47:00 <andythenorth> or a bug in nmlc 14:47:12 <andythenorth> but only affecting certain users 14:47:12 <andythenorth> :P 14:47:25 <andythenorth> or FIRS compile is non-deterministic 14:47:44 <andythenorth> if I had to put â¬5000 on this, it wouldnât be on the FIRS compile or nmlc :P 14:48:30 <Alberth> fair enough :) 14:48:48 <Alberth> https://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/busy.png extreme @ 128x128, perhaps a bit too busy? :D 14:49:28 <andythenorth> looks about right to me 14:49:37 <andythenorth> did you get 1 of each industry? 14:53:03 <Alberth> almost, 1950, no recycling (2 industries), no oilrig, no biorefinery, and no smithy forge 14:53:09 <Alberth> looks right to me 15:11:45 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:14:29 <supermop> hello 15:14:42 <supermop> need to get some pogs printed 15:15:36 <andythenorth> enum CatTypes {CAT_FAT = 0, CAT_THIN = 1, CAT_SAT_ON_HOT_TUB_LID = 0, CAT_AT_WINDOW_MIAOWING_ANNOYINGLY = 1, CAT_BELONGS_TO_NEIGHBOUR = CATS_ALL}; 15:18:22 * andythenorth considers âbuild a catâ feature for OpenTTD 15:18:29 <andythenorth> srsly, grow the user base 15:21:37 <supermop> hot tub in england? 15:21:51 <andythenorth> inflatable 15:22:03 <supermop> inflatable hot tub? 15:22:15 <Alberth> owning a hot tub, and using it are two different things :p 15:22:32 <andythenorth> cat is on it, canât use it 15:22:36 <supermop> also: slowly turn openttd into neko atsume 15:22:48 <supermop> or whatever that game is called 15:23:16 * andythenorth bbl 15:23:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:29:49 <supermop> ok going to do more suit shopping 15:30:05 <supermop> might get a very german hugo boss one 15:30:44 <supermop> navy with multicolored flecks like a VW harlequin polo 15:41:13 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:52:54 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 15:55:05 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:55:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:12:37 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 16:17:54 <frosch123> @seen terkhen 16:17:54 <DorpsGek> frosch123: terkhen was last seen in #openttd 9 weeks, 0 days, 21 hours, 40 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Terkhen> Hello 16:19:07 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:19:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:25:42 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:28:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6D857.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:35:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6CAA6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:48:45 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #openttd 17:01:41 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a34a:9000:1035:326e:3ab1:5983] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:05:51 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:42 <Samu> give me your first impressions: http://i.imgur.com/3zq1fKW.png 17:07:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:08:11 <Alberth> OMG, a link 17:08:14 <Alberth> :) 17:08:57 <Alberth> first AI is a human player? 17:09:20 <Samu> no, it's a real human player, my company 17:10:23 <Alberth> what's the colors about? 17:10:54 <Samu> red indicates an AI that started, but IsDead() 17:11:11 <Samu> green indicates an AI that started, still living 17:11:49 <Samu> orange means... AIs that didn't start, but the slots are configurable 17:12:09 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #openttd 17:12:24 <Samu> red slot is also configurable 17:12:37 <Samu> green is not 17:12:40 <Samu> silver is not 17:12:57 <Alberth> how is this configuration? I would expect a configuration to be separate from the actual companies 17:13:21 <Alberth> if I specify an AI, I don't specify "living" or "dead" 17:14:45 <Alberth> I wonder if "AIs" should really be companies 17:16:58 <Samu> sorry i dont understand the question 17:17:26 <andythenorth> is the FIRS bug fixed yet? 17:18:38 <Samu> when clicking a red or orange slot from the list, the "Select" and "Configure" buttons can be clicked 17:18:58 <Samu> you can switch to another AI script, define the new script parameters 17:19:21 <Alberth> the point is that in this window, you are now mixing game play progress and pre-game configuration 17:19:39 <Samu> but to start it, you have to do to AI debug window and click "Reload AI" - it re-rolls the slot with the new script you've set 17:19:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: the plural thing will be fixed in eints 17:20:06 <andythenorth> good :) 17:20:17 <andythenorth> I was referring to this power plant that accepts alcohol 17:20:22 <andythenorth> which I can see right now in game 17:20:44 <Samu> go to* typo 17:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> started a new game? 17:21:43 <Samu> hmm, what do you suggest me to do? 17:21:50 * andythenorth is confused 17:22:04 <Alberth> Samu: I am wondering about that 17:22:07 * Eddi|zuHause is annoyed 17:22:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ? o_O 17:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i upgraded my OS 17:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and there are a million tiny problems 17:22:49 <Samu> so it's a bad idea? 17:23:19 <Alberth> Samu: I didn't say that, I am just not sure how to go further 17:23:26 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: switch to OS X , and have just a few really big problems? o_O 17:23:33 <andythenorth> and someone to blame for them? 17:23:38 <andythenorth> and no way to fix them 17:23:45 <Alberth> Samu: you want a more company number oriented allocation, I guess? 17:24:10 <andythenorth> wtf, how did he get power plants onto this map? 17:24:32 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1166821#p1166821 17:24:43 <andythenorth> itâs in Temperate Basic economy, there are no power plants 17:24:52 <andythenorth> and itâs not a newgrf industry, thereâs no debug icon 17:25:12 <Samu> in my opinion, yeah, since the slot is also tied with the ai debug window 17:25:25 <Samu> the positioning 17:25:44 <Alberth> andythenorth: alcohol slot matches with original coal? 17:25:50 <Samu> slot 1 = company 1 = ai debug 1 17:25:58 <Samu> slot 2 = company 2 = ai debug 2 17:26:24 <andythenorth> Alberth: yes 17:26:48 <Alberth> Samu: right. Here you are doing configuration, so I'd only show whether or not you can configure a slot 17:26:53 <supermop> andythenorth: if high enough proof, maybe the power plant is burning spirits? 17:27:06 <Alberth> or sprites? 17:27:09 <andythenorth> maybe, but also something is broken :( 17:27:11 <supermop> not a bug, it's a feature 17:27:23 * andythenorth is annoyed 17:27:37 <supermop> environmentally friendly ethanol burning power plant 17:28:02 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 17:28:04 <supermop> the plant is a default industry? 17:28:21 <Samu> i am currently only allowing slot configuration for AI which IsDead() = true. 17:28:47 <Alberth> and all beyond the max competitors? 17:28:48 <frosch123> supermop: i would rather suspect the employees dringking it 17:29:04 <andythenorth> this player has managed to get 5 power plants onto this map 17:29:07 <Alberth> pure alcohol? not a good idea :) 17:29:12 <andythenorth> they do not show in the minimap 17:29:18 <Alberth> :O 17:29:20 <andythenorth> but they are in the industry list as <invalid industry> 17:29:40 <Alberth> game log clean? 17:30:00 <andythenorth> how do I check? 17:30:03 <Samu> yesterday I tried configuration for AIs which were still alive, but that caused some issues with the script that was running 17:30:24 <Alberth> type gamelog in console check for not having modified newgrfs ater time = 0 17:30:25 <glx> usually <invalid> stuff comes when grf are changed in a running game 17:31:08 <Alberth> Samu: yeah, that sounds like a bad idea :) 17:31:24 <andythenorth> I miss loads of the grfs 17:31:37 <andythenorth> and my internet connection is currently about 5KB/s :x 17:31:39 <Samu> I am unsure if it can be done for dead AIs, i don't suppose they would come to life once they die, or do they? 17:31:43 <frosch123> that save has no weird powerplants? 17:31:51 <andythenorth> that save has 5 17:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause> missing grfs will certainly cause <invalid> stuff :p 17:32:09 <andythenorth> but I miss so many grfs here that all bets are off 17:32:10 <frosch123> yes, but they are grf provided 17:32:16 <frosch123> and not called <invalid industry>? 17:32:36 <Eddi|zuHause> why even bother us when you have missing grfs? 17:33:00 <andythenorth> because I canât fricking download them :( 17:33:00 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: only weirdos have the separator grfs 17:33:02 <frosch123> not even i do 17:33:09 <Samu> ok let me upload this patch 17:33:12 <Samu> brb 17:33:28 <Alberth> andythenorth: gamelog looks clean 17:33:30 <andythenorth> debugging other peopleâs crap with a failed internet connection and a broadband provider status page showing only green lights 17:33:38 <Alberth> but maybe one of the newgrfs enables industry? 17:33:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: to me it looks like the power station is just provided by firs 17:34:03 <frosch123> you can even fund new ones 17:34:29 <andythenorth> how do FIRS version numbers work? They make no sense to me 17:34:49 <frosch123> you mean the 5935? 17:34:51 <andythenorth> I have to find the right version of FIRS, and o/c I have thousands to choose from 17:34:52 <andythenorth> yes 17:35:02 <frosch123> it's the date of the commit 17:35:19 <andythenorth> days since...? 17:35:21 <frosch123> in days since 2000-01-01 17:35:25 <Alberth> loaded compatible newgrfs after a game load though 17:36:36 <Alberth> nvm, that was me :p 17:37:26 <frosch123> andythenorth: i still don't get it... i used the bananas version to load the save 17:37:37 <andythenorth> the bananas version isnât 2.0.0? 17:37:52 * andythenorth doesnât understand the versions tbh 17:37:54 <frosch123> it is 17:38:04 <Alberth> hmm, I have "coal" :p 17:38:09 <andythenorth> the filename isnât 2.0.0 17:38:58 <andythenorth> I have just built the 2.0.0 tag 17:39:04 <andythenorth> I get v5943 17:39:18 <andythenorth> the one in the save is 5935 17:39:27 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/post1166821.png 17:39:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: just download firs from bananas? 17:40:04 <andythenorth> apparently I did already 17:40:16 <andythenorth> bananas refuses to download it 17:40:24 <frosch123> do you have multiple firs_2-2.0.tar on your disk? 17:40:30 <andythenorth> yup 17:40:37 <andythenorth> I just built one 17:40:39 <frosch123> ok, delete them :) 17:40:51 <frosch123> ottd cannot distinguish tars with same name 17:44:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, the industry is named "power station", not "power plant" 17:45:47 <andythenorth> I just have <invalid name> 17:45:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27537 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2016-04-09 19:45:38 +0200 ) 17:45:49 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 17:45:50 <DorpsGek> korean: 2 changes by telk5093 17:47:05 <Samu> Alberth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74694&p=1166831#p1166831 17:48:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: land info tool says "pre-industrial era houses" 17:48:40 <frosch123> so, another grf defines industries 17:49:01 <andythenorth> Iâll need to add a compaibility check for that :) 17:49:03 <andythenorth> thanks 17:49:07 <Alberth> samu: this is about 15 competitors? 17:49:32 <Samu> yes, that too 17:49:50 <Samu> it's also included 17:54:27 <Alberth> can you just for the total number of valid industries instead? 17:54:51 <Alberth> you know how many to expect, so any deviation means broken sutff 17:55:13 <Alberth> +check 17:58:48 <andythenorth> interesting idea 17:59:07 <andythenorth> not sure that can be done in the action where the checks are handled 17:59:40 <Alberth> you can skip your own :) 18:01:33 <andythenorth> there should be some kind of online global grf registry :P 18:01:46 <andythenorth> which maintains a compatibility matrix 18:01:49 <andythenorth> ugh 18:02:26 <Sylf> I don't think not even the newgrf authors know the full compatibility issues 18:03:11 <andythenorth> thanks for replying in the thread btw Sylf 18:03:31 <Sylf> that was one of the weirdest issue I've seen in recent days 18:06:38 <andythenorth> I forget why the FIRS version isnât just the commit hash 18:06:41 <andythenorth> there is a reason 18:08:06 <Alberth> deciding which one is newer 18:08:48 <andythenorth> of course :) 18:09:11 <Alberth> I can't understand how git devs expect us to handle that 18:10:02 <Alberth> but they might believe everybody wants to be a git wizard 18:10:41 <andythenorth> look at current tree, see where hash is 18:10:50 <supermop> Sylf: did you used to live in tokyo? 18:11:12 <andythenorth> date-based versioning against specific commits is weird if youâre merging a lot of feature branches 18:11:58 * andythenorth is guessing, doesnât know 18:12:00 <Alberth> a few days ago I needed "something newer than where I was" 18:12:10 <Sylf> Never lived in Tokyo. 18:12:23 <Sylf> Grew up near Nagoya 18:12:32 <Alberth> which would be trivial in svn and hg :) 18:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i always found the date-based versioning odd 18:16:13 <Samu> I'm editing the first post of that topic, to better explain everything what this patch do. 18:17:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A183C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:18:03 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@200-102-65-33.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 18:25:13 * andythenorth wonders if FIRS can just do x.y.z for compatible versions 18:25:24 <sim-al2> .lastseen drac_boy 18:25:33 <sim-al2> .seen drac_boy 18:25:35 <andythenorth> I care not about breaking nightlies 18:25:44 <Alberth> @seen drac_boy 18:25:44 <DorpsGek> Alberth: drac_boy was last seen in #openttd 4 hours, 30 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <drac_boy> anyway going for a bit..may be bakc later 18:25:51 <sim-al2> Oh thanks 18:25:59 <andythenorth> x.y.z might be problematic with RCs 18:26:31 <Alberth> x.y.z-RCn 18:28:09 <andythenorth> how does openttd actually check? just x > y ? 18:28:23 <andythenorth> where x is current grf version and y is min. version 18:31:04 <frosch123> >=, but yes 18:31:21 <frosch123> matching md5 goes first 18:31:47 <frosch123> then largest version number with version-in-save >= min-compatible 18:39:57 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: .] 18:42:14 <supermop> ah, ok. I cant find any pictures of what the first couple generations of tokyo monorail looked like in the 60s and 70s 18:42:32 <andythenorth> make it up 18:42:40 <andythenorth> use the osaka one 18:43:48 <andythenorth> supermop: http://www.monorails.org/webpix/1964.jpg 18:44:31 <supermop> oldest osaka one is 1990 and i already have that one standing in for 2nd or 3rd generation 18:44:36 <Sylf> supermop: like these? https://www.google.com/search?q=%E6%9D%B1%E4%BA%AC%E3%83%A2%E3%83%8E%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB100%E5%BD%A2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiq9PGUm4LMAhVKtYMKHUgmBWoQ_AUIBygB&biw=1858&bih=987 18:45:12 <supermop> so looks like a normal 60s JR EMU i guess? 18:45:14 <andythenorth> http://d13uygpm1enfng.cloudfront.net/article-imgs/en/2015/05/08/AJ201505080090/AJ201505080099.jpg 18:45:27 <andythenorth> theyâre just boxes at TTD scale 18:45:38 <andythenorth> just use the same one, and change the livery 18:45:53 <andythenorth> add / remove white 18:46:01 <andythenorth> or 2CC 18:46:27 <Sylf> yeah, it looks like it. Maybe a bit shorter. 18:46:31 <supermop> this livery would look good and 60s ish 18:46:33 <supermop> http://web.fc2.com/jump/?url=http://sdkai2.web.fc2.com/other-q-always-mono100-3.jpg 18:49:23 <supermop> andythenorth: 1 tile long train made up of 5/6/5 kosher for IH, or must be 8/8? 18:50:37 <andythenorth> 5/6/5 is fine 18:50:52 <supermop> 5/8 in the / | views is a pain 18:51:06 <supermop> non-integer pixel length 18:51:18 <andythenorth> all / views are a pain :) 18:51:31 <V453000> 5/8 sounds like a terrible idea 18:51:36 <V453000> no real benefit over 4/8 18:51:53 <supermop> V453000: 5+6+5 adds up to 16 18:52:03 <supermop> 4+4+4+4 too fiddly? 18:52:06 <V453000> ok at least that XD 18:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i used 4/8/4 for 1 tile 18:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> also, why would 5/8 be non-integer? each 1/8 is 1px up and 2px over 18:53:04 <supermop> 6+4+6 maybe better - then cab cars are a tad longer 18:54:51 <supermop> the template im working from has 8/8 as 20px long, 10px up in / view 18:54:52 <andythenorth> if you draw enough, youâll end up favouring 8/8 18:55:00 <andythenorth> because thatâs less drawing :P 18:55:07 <andythenorth> only one sprite needed, not two 18:55:50 <supermop> unless thats totally wrong? 18:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that just needs the right templates :p 18:56:16 <supermop> andythenorth: how long is IH pony 3rd gen coach? 18:56:22 <supermop> not 8/8? 18:56:26 <andythenorth> probably 10/8 18:56:30 <andythenorth> measure the pixels in â view 18:56:32 <supermop> fuuuuuuuuuuuck 18:56:53 <supermop> 40 in _ view 18:56:54 <andythenorth> these things happen 18:57:08 <supermop> ok 18:57:31 <supermop> soo new feature: my place holder sprites now allow for 10/8 railcars 18:58:12 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:58:23 <supermop> so i already have a 5/8 sprite at least then 18:58:49 <supermop> and a 7.5/8 18:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> be aware that 10/8 can't be dual headed 18:59:17 <andythenorth> nothing in IH can be dual-headed :) 18:59:21 <supermop> never drew vehicles before so didn't notice 40 was too long 19:00:07 <supermop> andythenorth: what was your shinkansen/cargo sprinter idea? 19:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: always draw vehicles into existing templates 19:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: because nobody is going to bother figuring out offsets for each sprite over and over 19:00:47 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: was, didn't realize was a template for 10/8 because i am a moron 19:01:36 <andythenorth> supermop: the cargo sprinter has a stupid magical template that uses different sprites for first/last vehicle and middle vehicles 19:01:54 <andythenorth> it also handles cargo-specific graphics, with random variants :P 19:02:00 <andythenorth> I never ever ever want to see it again 19:02:31 <andythenorth> real show-pony stuff, total overkill 19:02:58 <andythenorth> but it could be used for EMUs also 19:03:43 <supermop> ok 19:04:02 <supermop> i'll figure out a way to bribe you into using that for shinkansen 19:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds ridiculously overcomplicated over just making something dual head 19:05:03 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: idk how the CS works, but ideally every car adds power, not just the heads 19:05:04 <Samu> Alberth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1166603#p1166603 - just edited the first post of that topic to better describe the patch 19:05:13 <Samu> now it should be all clear 19:05:30 <Alberth> ok :) 19:06:31 <supermop> fiance vetoed the multi-colored suit 19:08:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you might be right, but then double-head engines are restricted to 8/8 and itâs a janky schema with special cases 19:08:21 <supermop> now that i've accidentally drawn a 5/8 emu part, the 5+6+5 monorail does seem more attractive 19:08:31 * andythenorth wonders what the best way to build a shinkansen is for player 19:08:49 <supermop> easiest is you buy a 4-car set 19:08:57 <supermop> as many as you need 19:09:04 <andythenorth> itâs not very flexible for capacity 19:09:07 <andythenorth> does that matter? 19:09:16 <supermop> 2nd easiest is just keep buying single shinkansen cars 19:09:21 <andythenorth> are they pax only? 19:09:25 <supermop> yes 19:09:35 <supermop> in real life and in concept 19:10:26 <sim-al2> In game terms it might be good to have mail as an option 19:10:41 <andythenorth> recently I have been playing with 5 tile train lengths 19:10:44 <andythenorth> by accident 19:10:51 <supermop> in real life the end cars should be lower capacity and more expensive, due to cabs, long aerodynamic area, couplers etc 19:11:01 <Samu> my english is so horrible :o 19:11:01 <supermop> i always use 5 tile 19:11:07 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:11:23 <supermop> but i dont mind a center car costing the same as an end car 19:11:52 <sim-al2> Of course, in reality, after the 0 series the end cars don't have traction motor either... 19:11:53 <supermop> nor do i mind it having same capacity 19:13:03 <supermop> sim-al2: in real life japanese emus are too complicated in their set layouts, between where powered cars and trailers go 19:13:15 <supermop> in game should be homogenized 19:13:27 <sim-al2> Well, exluding those 4 car 100 series trains. But yeah, that's way far out for a game to replicate 19:14:06 <andythenorth> supermop: I think high-speed MUs like that are best treated similar to planes 19:14:20 <andythenorth> consists are 3 (maybe 4) tile long 19:14:28 <andythenorth> several hundred pax 19:14:37 <andythenorth> if you want bigger, add another whole consist 19:14:38 <andythenorth> no magic 19:15:01 <Sylf> shinkansen normally have very fixed consists 19:15:13 <Sylf> 8, 12 or 16 cars for 0 series 19:15:18 <sim-al2> Most of them have what's referred to as the MM' setup, where there's two types of equipment, one car with pantograph, transformer, and motor controller, and the other car might have the air compressor, but both motored 19:15:34 <sim-al2> There were 4 and 6 car trains for the West Kodoma near the end 19:15:48 <supermop> sim-al2: too complex for iron horse 19:15:53 <Sylf> but for the game, I prefer I can create my own consists 19:16:05 <sim-al2> I know, just for reference 19:16:23 <sim-al2> Nevermind the bilevel cars that appeared at one point 19:18:03 <andythenorth> 8 cars at 8/8 is 4 tiles 19:18:05 <Samu> CRAP, i forgot to describe the best feature of this all... restarting the slot with another AI script 19:18:06 <andythenorth> which is about right 19:18:09 <Samu> brb 19:19:10 <supermop> sim-al2: no MAX in this roster, throws off balance between shinkanse and regular EMU 19:19:38 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:19:39 <sim-al2> No, the 100 and 200 had bilevel green and dining cars, because they had such long trips 19:20:11 <sim-al2> Especially 100 series, Toyko to the end of the Sanyo Shnkansen takes a long time at 220 km/h 19:20:13 <supermop> sim-al2: ah those were gone by my first trip to japan i think 19:20:31 <sim-al2> It was only two cars in a 16 car formation 19:20:53 <sim-al2> I think they were cut up by the late 80's, definetly by the 90's 19:21:08 <supermop> when i was there the first time it was mostly 300s and 500s, few 0s and few 700s\ 19:21:31 <sim-al2> Yeah, they would have been gone, having trains at 270 km/h really speeded everything up 19:21:34 <supermop> havet seen a 500 since then tho 19:22:05 <sim-al2> They're around, but on the Sanyo Shinkansen 19:22:40 <sim-al2> Too expensive for mass production. The 700 series have almost the same performance at much lower price to build 19:23:02 <sim-al2> 100 series bilevel: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/100_ns_mark.JPG 19:23:16 <supermop> sim-al2: yeah but 500s scream 90s industrial design 19:23:40 <supermop> wish i could have gone last year to see the 500/evangelion 20th aniversary set 19:24:25 *** bebert_ [~oftc-webi@LFbn-1-5185-202.w90-105.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:24:59 *** bebert_ [~oftc-webi@LFbn-1-5185-202.w90-105.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 19:25:04 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@200-102-65-33.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:17 <supermop> the guy at the bottom is 5/8: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7735/Cranes.png 19:25:25 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@200-102-65-33.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 19:25:51 <Samu> done :) damn i feel so proud i made something decent 19:25:56 <Samu> :p 19:26:11 <sim-al2> C bogie? 19:26:45 <Samu> no, this https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74694 19:26:56 <sim-al2> Also you have a single black pixel at 7x7 19:27:12 <Samu> oh, you're not talking to me 19:27:17 <sim-al2> Sorry Samu, I was talking to supermop 19:27:37 <sim-al2> But the AI patch is looking cool 19:28:03 <Samu> i'm unsure if game scripts could do the same, only if i test it 19:30:32 <supermop> andythenorth: Japan set is gpl so could steal their shinkansens, 19:31:07 <Samu> thx 19:33:13 <supermop> sim-al2: not enough space to show separate bogies 19:34:07 <supermop> bogies will be painted over with a monorail side skirt anyway, as i dont have any rail vehicle planned for 5/8 19:47:47 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:56:39 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:03:51 <sim-al2> Side skirt you say? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/OER_3263.jpg 20:04:19 <planetmaker> o/ 20:04:48 <sim-al2> Yeah, I think they took them off because it made inspections too hard 20:05:26 <frosch123> hoi planetmaker :) 20:09:44 <supermop> andy, should sprite sheets for each vehicle be posted as issues? 20:12:25 <andythenorth> yeah thatâs fine 20:12:41 <andythenorth> no plan survives the first test game btw ;) 20:13:54 <supermop> yeah, i am trying to think as little as possible about hp, speed, and capacity 20:15:14 <supermop> for monorails, i am guessing regardless of whether I do 5 6 5 or 6 4 6, it is best that all generations use the same? 20:16:07 <sim-al2> Yeah, people will get confused if they change like that 20:22:33 <Snail> hey guys, I have a question about var61 20:22:55 <Snail> it currently works with a limited number of callbacks⊠such as recoloring 20:23:26 <Snail> I understand itâs like this to prevent circular references. However, my question is, can we extend it to the âwagon lengthâ callback as well? 20:24:43 <frosch123> no, it cannot be extended to anything that affects gameplay 20:25:02 <Snail> why is that? 20:25:19 <frosch123> because that's where the circular references cause trouble 20:28:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:31:18 <supermop> ok ive cut the vehicle into 1/8 slices 20:31:40 <supermop> so i can just stack as many as i need 20:46:17 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 20:49:19 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:53:46 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:54:38 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@200-102-65-33.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:09 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@200-102-65-33.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 21:06:16 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:10:58 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@200-102-65-33.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:11:04 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@200-102-65-33.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 21:11:52 <supermop> is 19 m abnormally long for a diesel locomotive? 21:13:06 <supermop> seems normal 21:16:15 <Wolf01> yes, seems normal 21:16:24 <Wolf01> the centennial is 30m 21:16:35 <Wolf01> that's abnormal :D 21:19:23 <peter1138> firmware update for watch... ;s 21:19:55 <Supercheese> Who watches the watches? 21:20:16 <Samu> do u know of a game script that dies on game start? Need one to test something 21:20:46 <supermop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JNR_Class_DE10 21:21:05 <supermop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JR_Freight_Class_DF200 21:21:40 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:21:49 <supermop> would you say that considering those two locomotives together, if red is 1CC, would 2CC be white, or grey? 21:23:01 <supermop> so, would the light grey paint change color with 2cc while the white accent stays white? or would the white accent change color while the grey stays grey? 21:23:55 <supermop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JR_Freight_Class_HD300#/media/File:HD300-501_Kita-Fuchu_20141104.jpg 21:25:03 <supermop> Sylf: would you say that JR Freight's colors are red and white, or red and grey, for diesels? 21:27:23 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 21:29:07 <sim-al2> Newer ones seem to be red and grey 21:30:38 <sim-al2> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Freight_DF200_105.JPG 21:31:17 <supermop> that still has white logo and stripe though 21:31:19 <sim-al2> Although the HD300 does look like it's red and white 21:34:03 <sim-al2> I don't think there's any set rules for painting, it's JRF that keeps the logo like that. JR Kyushu has its own ideas: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Seven_Stars_in_Kyushu_at_Aso_Station_20131103.jpg 21:35:52 <Sylf> supermop: red and white 21:36:25 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 21:37:03 <Sylf> If you're talking about likes of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JNR_Class_DE10, It's red and white to me, even though the grey part is bigger than white 21:37:28 <sim-al2> Oh, looks like JRF does keep the white accent and logo even with different paint: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/EH200-901_Hachioji_20030913.JPG 21:38:22 <sim-al2> With old locomotives like the DE10 and DD51, there's tons of paint variations 21:39:38 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 21:40:24 <Sylf> I don't know of that many different paints for freight locos 21:40:48 <sim-al2> When you look at the wikipedia pages, I suggest you switch to Japanese language (left sidebar), you get tons more pictures 21:41:23 <sim-al2> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/JRF_DE10-1164.jpg 21:41:24 <Sylf> Japanese is my first language, so that's where I automatically go to when reading up on japanese trains 21:41:29 <sim-al2> Oh sorry 21:41:40 <Sylf> Many color variations are normally for pax 21:42:02 <sim-al2> Yeah, but their are small variations in scheme over the years 21:42:53 <Sylf> but vast majority stay with one design, one color scheme 21:43:13 <sim-al2> I assume different depots are responsible for the variations 21:45:52 <Sylf> I guess DF200 is more red-and-grey, not much white. 21:47:28 <sim-al2> It seems earlier batches have red-painted plows 21:47:53 <sim-al2> Or rather, the end plate above the plow 21:48:44 <Sylf> I caught a photo of one of those earlier this year in sapporo :) 21:49:31 <sim-al2> So I understand that they haul agricultural products from Hokkiado, but do they work south of Hakodate at all? 21:51:21 <Sylf> DE10 etc? 21:51:29 <sim-al2> The EH800s have another varation: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/EH800-1_%28No_1_end%29_Kita-Fuchu_20140620.JPG 21:51:41 <Sylf> or some other locos? 21:52:08 <sim-al2> Sorry, I just don't have a grasp of where diesels in Hokkiado are actually used, except that the lines away from Sapporo are not electrified 21:52:56 <Sylf> DF200 can be used outside of Hokkaido, but they aren't used - no need. 21:53:17 <Sylf> DF200 special version is used in Kyushu, pulling the Nanatsuboshi train 21:53:28 <Sylf> that's the only exception (the brown scheme) 21:53:54 <sim-al2> Yeah, the exterior design of the Kyushi unit is... interesting... 21:54:52 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 22:00:14 <supermop> cant decide what will look best in IH style, colorful stripe and big grey areas, 22:00:28 <supermop> or large areas of color with a white stripe 22:03:18 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12:37 <Samu> Unhandled exception at 0x00007FF6066270AB in openttd.exe: An invalid parameter was passed to a function that considers invalid parameters fatal. 22:12:42 <Samu> what does this mean' 22:14:02 <Samu> visual studio express 2015 does that sometimes when I exit openttd 22:22:36 <peter1138> get a backtrace 22:35:47 <Samu> how do I pause an AI? I see that there's some code related to IsPaused 22:36:12 <Samu> but in the game I don't see how I can pause AIs 22:36:17 <Samu> i can only stop it completely 22:38:28 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:44:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:48:26 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:51:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A183C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:25 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 22:52:00 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [] 22:52:05 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 23:03:56 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-157-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:07:57 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 23:07:59 <drac_boy> hi 23:08:19 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 23:12:18 <sim-al2> hi 23:16:02 <drac_boy> hows you? 23:19:12 <drac_boy> also http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/4/2/9642.1280200083.jpg you probably can tell which one it is from the unusual trucks .. but either way that operation was just a "keep things as-is for now since later we're going eject any passenger services" kind of thing 23:19:29 <drac_boy> the yellow splash is...tbh...a little funny looking 23:20:08 <sim-al2> Early Conrail paint schemes are rather interesting 23:20:17 <drac_boy> (also...not sure why that looks like an electronic megaphone for a horn? heh, never seen one like that afaik) 23:20:22 <sim-al2> Paired up FL9s too 23:21:04 <sim-al2> There were some experiments with warning devices at that time, Union Pacific tried sirens and stuff 23:21:42 <drac_boy> well conrail did have one single GG1 that was painted all blue (everything else just got the black 'CR' basic treatment) ... the real reason why tho was to cover up the bicentennial paintjob tho 23:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> tho tho 23:23:02 <drac_boy> http://www.vistadome.com/postcards/trains/electric/gg1_cr4800.jpg becomes http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/3/1/1/6311.1105214460.jpg 23:23:16 <drac_boy> not too surprised that they choosed the 'Rivet' one for the special paintjob 23:23:35 <drac_boy> ofc even with the new blue paint you still can see all these dotted lines :) 23:28:54 <drac_boy> about early paints, how about this? http://www.tourisme-monteregie.qc.ca/images/news/detail/CP4237_BR.jpg the red color stayed but the white strips didn't last for a long time (sometimes one strip was still present but eventually it just disappeared) 23:30:10 <drac_boy> that also had one other thing that I can't recall seeing active in any photos I've seen (probably need to find earlier ones) ... rather than using old fashioned flags on pole they had electronic 'flags' (the 3+3 lamps above windshields yeah) 23:32:25 <drac_boy> heh hm that reminds me of an unusual photo in one of the canadian rail magazine that I don't have anymore .. an early wide-hood locomotive flying white flags even although the practice officially was already gone by that date 23:33:34 <sim-al2> Yeah, I suspect that the requirement for using flags disappeared while these were being built 23:35:13 <drac_boy> theres only the blue flag .. and even then later these became hard plates instead (the kind you keep by shed instead of rolling up and throw into cab stow) 23:36:55 <drac_boy> huh, while looking for any interesting conrail passenger photo I found this instead http://www.railpixs.com/amt4/Commuter%20trains%20at%20Chicago_Sept77.jpg 23:37:38 <drac_boy> old F units, a F40PH (I think), PC (or at least ex-PC) alco leading a F unit on local train . AND the amtrak rohr train 23:41:42 <sim-al2> Yeah, no Metra at that time 23:45:43 <drac_boy> as I recall a few of the commuter networks were from the "shutting down services? we'll take it into our own hands instead" era during 1970-1980s period 23:54:26 <drac_boy> also interestingly enough the South Shore was technically classified as interurban which meant it could had become amtrak's but didn't happen. later it basically became a city owned commuter 23:58:47 <drac_boy> ah sim I almost forgot, did you know that the George railroad actually kept a caboose or heavyweight coach on all of its freight trains for a long time and even refused to join amtrak because they were afraid of losing a tax subsidiary. when SAL bought them out these rarely-used rides suddenly disappeared :) 23:59:24 <drac_boy> must had been an old steam era tax structure me think. no idea tbh