Log for #openttd on 12th April 2016:
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10:31:38  <Samu> hi
10:33:20  <andythenorth> o/
10:33:28  <Wolf01> o/
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11:41:56  <Samu> i'm back to the saveload.cpp file
11:42:07  <Samu> when i save using the lzo encoder
11:42:17  <Samu> i can't load it back
11:42:39  <Samu> broken savegame - unexpected end of chunk.
11:44:26  <Samu> is that intended? to never use lzo to create savegames?
11:44:38  <Samu> i was only experimenting zlo
11:44:39  <Samu> lzo
11:47:39  <Samu> wait a minute
11:47:46  <Samu> now it loads
11:48:09  <Samu> so it depends on the build I had chosen to save?
11:50:00  <Samu> i saved with debug x64, i can load with debug x64, but not with release x64
11:50:23  <Samu> can't load in official 1.6.0 either
11:55:44  <Samu> it loads on debug win32 and also on release win32. it's only release x64 that it doesn't load
11:56:00  <Samu> turns out official 1.6.0 is x64 too
11:56:09  <Samu> and i guess it's release
11:56:40  <Samu> gonna try official 1.6.0 win32, brb
11:59:06  <Samu> doesn't work on official 1.6.0 win32, downloaded from
11:59:22  <Samu> what could this all mean?
12:06:10  <Samu> can someone try loading this savegame in your openttd?!1263&authkey=!AHcsjB_LoOMjjK0&ithint=file%2csav
12:06:18  <Samu> file name is Unnamed, 1950-01-02 lzo preset 0.sav
12:06:21  <Samu> 27.8 MB
12:07:55  <Samu> does it load, or does it say broken savegame - unexpected end of chunk.
12:08:02  <Samu> ty
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12:37:01  <Samu> it appears to be a bug with openttd 32-bit version when saving a game with map sized 4096x4096
12:37:08  <Samu> have to test this better
12:37:29  <Samu> lzma error code
12:37:40  <peter1138> solution: don't play stupid map sizes
12:37:53  <Samu> :O
12:38:36  <Samu> seems to be the overhead of 15 AIs + the process of saving
12:38:52  <Samu> I'm merely pushing openttd to its limit :)
12:39:03  <Samu> it can save on the 64-bit
12:39:07  <Samu> but not on the 32-bit
12:40:21  <Samu> i currently got 16 GB RAM installed on the system, can't be that
12:44:23  <Samu> with lzma preset 9, the overhead is an extra 690.000 KB just for lzma, on top of mem copy
12:45:01  <Samu> what is the limit for 32-bit applications in openttd? what about large-adress aware stuff?
12:46:54  <Samu> no i'm wrong, 690.000K already includes mem copy
12:50:39  <Samu> weird, it doubles the effort for server to client, i just monitorized mem needed for a player to join a server
12:50:54  <Samu> about 1.1 GB more memory
12:51:02  <Samu> just during a client join
12:51:18  <Samu> well i gotta go now, be back alter
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13:25:23  <peter1138> thanks rain, waiting for me to go outside :p
13:26:16  <peter1138> monitorized...
13:29:21  <andythenorth> it will do that
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13:38:45  <Wolf01> I'm tired :(
13:50:14  <supermop_> yo
13:55:48  <V453000> sup
13:58:12  <supermop_> rain
13:58:24  <supermop_> rhino modelling
13:59:21  <supermop_> and designing interiors for conversion of an old grain elevator at a brewery in Guang Zhou into a boutique beer hotel
14:08:05  <supermop_> andythenorth: does IH have some kkind of pallet means of switching headlights on and off, switching 1/2 cc etc?
14:08:22  <andythenorth> headlights are drawn on
14:08:46  <andythenorth> flipping 1cc and 2cc is automated with pixa
14:09:34  <V453000> brewery sounds great
14:10:44  <Alkel_U3> oh! Yesterday I should've checked TTD instead of TT for the water level settings. It was there in the original map generator, but not for Arctic and Tropic
14:10:53  <Alkel_U3> it didn't occur to me until now
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14:18:37  <Wolf01> o/
14:18:40  <Alberth> hi hi
14:18:41  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
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14:27:25  <CrazyIvan532> Hello everyone, so i am trying to compile the latest stable release on my rasberry pi 3 but ive hit an error and im not sure what it means. the error is makefile:234: recipe for target 'script/api/script_industrytype.o' failed
14:28:25  <Alberth> there should be a compiler error too
14:29:00  <Alberth> you can use a paste service, like  if you have more text
14:29:01  <CrazyIvan532> make[1]: ***[script/api/script_industrytyper
14:29:18  <CrazyIvan532> make[1]: ***[script/api/script_industrytype.o] Error 1
14:29:22  <CrazyIvan532> is that it?
14:30:11  <Alberth> no, you run "make", which runs the c++ compiler. That program gives an error, and then "make" reports the build failed, and on what file
14:30:30  <Alberth> the c++ error is the root cause
14:30:53  <Alberth> anything "make[1]: ..." is from make
14:32:00  * andythenorth needs to search forum PMs
14:32:05  <andythenorth> can’t see how
14:33:04  <CrazyIvan532> i cant copy and paste it because im not sure how to on a raspi
14:40:29  <Alberth> line number?
14:41:16  <Alberth> although not very useful without error message
14:42:54  <Alberth> it complains about a name?
14:43:04  <Alberth> try to find that name in other files
14:43:16  <CrazyIvan532> im gonna have to run the compile again this may take a few minutes, i closed the terminal window
14:43:50  <Alberth> make should pick up where it error-ed the last time
14:44:04  <CrazyIvan532> nope has to run it all over again
14:44:09  <CrazyIvan532> for some reason
14:44:39  <Alberth> weird
14:45:08  <CrazyIvan532> the latest stable is 1.6.0 isnt it?
14:45:24  <CrazyIvan532> has anything changed since 1.5.3 to be able to compile it?
14:45:58  <Alberth> no idea, not much, would be my guess
14:46:02  <CrazyIvan532> oh thats strange its failed at a different point this time
14:46:37  <Alberth> perhaps your compiler changed more than the openttd source :)
14:46:55  <CrazyIvan532> viewport.cpp this time
14:47:12  <CrazyIvan532> void viewportDODraw
14:51:45  <Alberth> pretty sure nothing changed there the last year
14:53:57  <CrazyIvan532> ok ive actually made progress, not sure what i did differently, all i did was update the os on my pi
14:54:16  <CrazyIvan532> rerun make and it did it fine this time :/ im not sure what was happening
14:55:36  <Alberth> you got an executable now?
14:56:38  <CrazyIvan532> yep worked first time after the update
14:57:19  <CrazyIvan532> is there a way to remove GFX files too, ive got an oversized gui which looks aweful on the raspi touchscreen
14:59:46  <Alberth> can't do that in the newgrf window?
14:59:58  <Alberth> otherwise, close openttd, and edit the openttd.cfg file
15:00:26  <planetmaker> oh, there's even an UI zoom setting in the game options. Maybe that helps?
15:00:30  <planetmaker> g'evening also :)
15:00:40  <Alberth> don't know what needs changing though, never installed such a file
15:00:45  <Alberth> evenink planetmaker :)
15:00:59  <andythenorth> lo planetmaker
15:01:05  <CrazyIvan532> cant seem to remove them from in there just activate or deactivate
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15:01:26  <Alberth> deactivate should be sufficient to disable
15:02:11  <CrazyIvan532> it doesnt seem like it has
15:02:55  <Alberth> close openttd, and edit the cfg file?
15:03:14  <Alberth> program shouldn't load things that are not in that file
15:03:21  <CrazyIvan532> where do i find the config file
15:03:37  <Alberth> ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg ?
15:03:57  <Alberth> othewise, check the readme, it has a list of places to look
15:06:13  <CrazyIvan532> is that the same when its built from source?
15:07:45  <Alberth> should be, unless you give weird configure values :p
15:08:13  <Alberth> but euhm,    find / -type f -name openttd.cfg -print
15:08:20  <CrazyIvan532> ive got a lot of files that have config in the title, just not one that looks like that
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15:24:07  <CrazyIvan532> im confused as to why it still has them and my saved games since i  extracted the new version to a different file
15:27:29  <CrazyIvan532> ok i got it seems the zbase gfx set for some reason has bigger icons than the default base set, causing the toolbar to look odd
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15:29:20  <peter1138> zbase has a lot of things wrong
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15:29:55  <CrazyIvan532> anyone perhaps recommend an alternative that looks similar without the issues?
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15:31:24  <Alberth> the opengfx baseset?
15:31:55  <CrazyIvan532> i was hoping for one that looks a little less jagged round the edges
15:34:00  <Alberth> reduce zoom :)
15:34:54  <CrazyIvan532> you mean zoom out or is that the name of a set lol?
15:35:35  <Alberth>  I am always confused about zoom directions :)
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15:37:34  <supermop_> do i need to draw 8/8 trains to look like 7.5/8 to get a visible gap between cars in / and \?
15:38:36  <andythenorth> just leave a row of pixels out or so
15:38:42  <andythenorth> it’s all not very scientific tbh
15:38:46  <andythenorth> and full of mistakes :)
15:38:52  <andythenorth> nobody really notices when playing
15:39:08  <Alberth> make train fast enough :p
15:41:48  <supermop_> oof
15:42:16  <supermop_> that throws off my set of placeholders
15:42:38  <supermop_> can leave off two pixels easier than 1
15:43:00  <supermop_> but i guess being placeholders it doesnt matter
15:43:44  <Alberth> remove random pixel in each row ?
15:44:03  * andythenorth watches ‘real’ trains go round a circle
15:44:12  <supermop_> lego?
15:44:13  <andythenorth> no need to worry about lengths
15:44:24  <andythenorth> HO
15:45:16  <supermop_> need to "decide" on a remaining lengths in spreadsheet so can start assigning each vehicle a placeholder
15:45:30  <supermop_> kids old enough for HO now, andythenorth ?
15:45:37  <andythenorth> debatable
15:45:52  <supermop_> andythenorth is old enough for HO at least
15:45:52  <andythenorth> I am definitely old enough though
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15:46:29  <supermop_> could use some Z gauge here
15:46:43  <supermop_> no room for N in manhattan apartment
15:47:06  <supermop_> maybe one N tram stop
15:49:31  <peter1138> have we done the 3d-model-graphics version of the game yet?
15:49:43  <andythenorth> nobody finished it
15:51:30  <supermop_> andythenorth: cargosprinter method for EMUs or fixed consists? or just single/double 8/8 units?
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15:52:04  <supermop_> peter1138: what 3d model version?
15:53:31  <peter1138> the one we all want :p
15:54:15  <supermop_> rendered base set?
15:54:30  <supermop_> or in game rendering?
15:54:40  <Alberth> 3D openttd :p
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15:56:01  <andythenorth> supermop_: 8/8 units
15:56:27  <supermop_> pointy ends go away when sticking them together?
15:56:28  <andythenorth> assuming they’re blunt ended, and don’t have fancy end units
15:56:45  <andythenorth> if they have fancy end units (1) choose a different one to draw or (2) I’ll have to figure something out
15:56:47  <supermop_> duckbilled shinkansens,
15:57:15  <andythenorth> shinkansens should be built as 4 tile fixed consists
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15:58:13  <supermop_> would you allow this guy as a "shinkansen" graphically then, or am i pushing my luck?
15:58:14  <supermop_>
15:58:54  <andythenorth> probably a case for doing it as two 8/8 units and using the cargo sprinter magic
15:59:07  <supermop_> o
15:59:08  <supermop_> k
15:59:34  <supermop_> that just turns the intermediate units into a flat fronted versions?
15:59:45  <andythenorth> yes
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16:01:10  <supermop_> for shinkansen, 8 cars of 8/8, or some other amount of a different length (8+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+8?)
16:01:13  <Rubidium> andythenorth: I won't agree; E2/E5 are 10 cars
16:01:40  <andythenorth> not realistic?
16:01:49  <supermop_> Rubidium: no E2s in iron crane
16:02:04  <supermop_> but the above 8s and 6s give 10 cars
16:02:22  <andythenorth> you need to fake more :P
16:02:37  <andythenorth> use pre-production prototypes or never-built units or something
16:02:43  <supermop_> i only have 4 generic shinkansens
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16:03:01  <Rubidium> and the plethora of 12 car consists get even shorter?
16:03:12  <andythenorth> don’t listen to Rubidium he’s a naughty troll :)
16:03:12  <Rubidium> just so it fits in 4 tiles
16:03:35  <supermop_> a roughly 60s on, a roughly 80s one, a mid 90s one, and a late 90s/00s one
16:03:54  <supermop_> Rubidium: i like short cars personally
16:04:13  <andythenorth> supermop_: cargo sprinter substitutes an intermediate car when needed:
16:04:19  <andythenorth> see middle set of sprites
16:04:21  <Rubidium> supermop_: start with DHR
16:04:56  <supermop_> andythenorth: stylistically i think i am set for shinkansen, just wondering if it looks better to have end cars a different length
16:05:20  <andythenorth> if they’re fixed consist yes
16:05:22  <andythenorth> otherwise no
16:05:29  <andythenorth> we could build them as individual vehicles
16:05:37  <andythenorth> with front and back engines separate
16:05:38  <andythenorth> but eh
16:06:31  <supermop_> have a 1000hp shinkansen dining car
16:06:45  <supermop_> and hook it up to a steam engine
16:06:45  <Rubidium> supermop_: it would be realistic for the N700 series to have longer end cars
16:07:36  <Rubidium> likewise for the 500 series (my favorite)
16:07:50  <Rubidium> although the difference is about 10%
16:08:16  <supermop_> Rubidium: "500" is my third shinkansen, 700/n700 basis for 4th
16:08:48  <supermop_> 2nd is amalgamation of 100 and 200, maybe 300 instead
16:08:57  <supermop_> 1st is 0 of course
16:09:05  <supermop_> powers and speeds faked
16:09:47  <Rubidium> IIRC the odd first digit ones are for the east, the even ones for the west
16:10:02  <supermop_> 6/8 shinkansen cars may look too tiny next to the regular NG trains
16:10:11  <supermop_> correct Rubidium
16:10:11  <Rubidium> uhm... I reversed east and west I guess
16:10:20  <supermop_> 300 is west
16:10:23  <supermop_> yeah
16:10:45  <supermop_> 800 on kyushu
16:11:59  <Rubidium> oh, so they've messed the nice system up...
16:11:59  <supermop_> Iron crane gets only 4 though, use on either side of your map as you please
16:12:27  <supermop_> well east now uses E(n)
16:12:57  <Rubidium> and the bilevels?
16:13:41  <supermop_> believe those are all to the east
16:16:15  <supermop_> andythenorth: your CS sprinter looks like 7/8?
16:16:26  <andythenorth> might be
16:16:28  <supermop_> ok
16:16:34  <andythenorth> it fits to the container lengths
16:16:49  <andythenorth> you don’t have to use that length
16:17:18  <supermop_> using 6/8 would necessitate rewriting all the weird cod though, right?
16:17:25  <supermop_> code
16:17:32  <supermop_> or cod too i guess
16:17:42  <andythenorth> no
16:17:59  <andythenorth> all units have to be same length, and the sprite swapping code doesn’t touch length
16:18:23  <andythenorth> it should work with anything up to 10/8
16:18:33  <supermop_> still easiest to just provide sprites same size as what you have and use same template though, right?
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16:19:40  <supermop_> you have code that randomizes color of the pink and purple containers?
16:20:12  <andythenorth> yes
16:20:16  <supermop_> cool
16:20:31  <andythenorth> only to blue and white currently, but that’s variable
16:21:13  <supermop_> every container ive seen i japan is the same maroon JR Freight livery though
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16:21:23  <supermop_> lunch time
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16:50:10  <Wolf01> I always fail to understand how to pass data to event handlers :| I usually implement the handler on the same class (usually with a delegate) and get the data from the class, but what when I have a shared handler?
16:52:13  <Wolf01> I don't know if I need to do some magic with that lambda brainfuck or just duplicate the code
16:52:29  <andythenorth> does the code do the same thing?
16:52:46  <Wolf01> yeah
16:52:58  * andythenorth has no ideas
16:53:08  <andythenorth> I have NFI about ‘proper’ OO code
16:53:25  <andythenorth> I would just pass classes around that have some common interface
16:53:34  <andythenorth> or better yet, try and avoid the whole situation :)
16:53:49  <Wolf01> I could put the code on a common class and then use the handler to call it
16:54:03  <andythenorth> I would end up having some class like ‘Application’ or whatever
16:54:33  <andythenorth> but my ways probably aren’t recognisable to most OO coders
16:54:41  <andythenorth> I just try and keep it really dumb as far as possible
16:55:01  <andythenorth> and keep entities as self-contained as possible :P
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16:56:06  <supermop_> ok
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17:23:31  <Wolf01> o/
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17:29:41  <frosch123> hoi
17:30:24  <V453000> hy frog
17:39:25  <frosch123> V453000: <- haha, i thought i already had encountered the most stupid message today
17:40:12  <V453000> XD
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17:41:14  <V453000> well at least he knows where to look :P
17:41:40  <frosch123> yeah, not the most obvious place for f backstage photos
17:41:49  <V453000> :D
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17:59:37  <andythenorth> also
18:00:01  <andythenorth> what to do about tropic landscape gen? o_O
18:00:54  <supermop_> idk
18:01:03  <supermop_> what is tropic supposed to be
18:01:54  <andythenorth>  a landscape for building trains on?
18:03:03  <andythenorth> all landscapes should be much the same, irrespective of chosen climate
18:03:08  <andythenorth> gameplay needs
18:03:19  <andythenorth> - mountains (which can be suppressed by choosing flat landscape)
18:03:35  <andythenorth> - valleys (which are created by mountains being formed)
18:03:53  <andythenorth> - open water (which can be suppressed by turning down sea amount)
18:03:57  <andythenorth> - rivers (which can be disabled)
18:04:10  <andythenorth> all this crap about plateaus and sine waves is not doing anything for gameplay
18:05:25  <supermop_> would be nice to have different shapes of mountains or canyons or plateaus , but not dependent on climate
18:06:38  <andythenorth> so many tuning controls already, and then they behave differently depending on chosen climate
18:06:43  <andythenorth> meh
18:07:12  <supermop_> although with tropic, the shape of the land has a big effect of the greenness of the land
18:10:12  <andythenorth> [shrug]
18:10:24  <andythenorth> works fine for me with temperate terrain algorithm :)
18:11:50  <supermop_> yeah that seems reasonable
18:13:45  <andythenorth> maybe expose the algorithm in terrain gen window?
18:13:57  <andythenorth> and make it an explicit choice, not a climate-dependent choice?
18:14:37  <andythenorth> or could we provide a box to paste code into? o_O
18:15:59  <supermop_> why not just have multiple generators selectable
18:16:31  <andythenorth> V453000: your child shares birthday with mine? o_O
18:16:37  <andythenorth> I think we knew that already?
18:16:56  <V453000> we might have mentioned it but I haven't remembered it tbh
18:17:45  <andythenorth> I remember nothing any more :P
18:17:52  <andythenorth> due to ENoSleep
18:19:12  <V453000> :D
18:21:47  <andythenorth> I can’t remember what it felt like to have enough sleep most days :)
18:27:14  <supermop_> andythenorth: just delete all but one, either temperate or arctic
18:30:20  <andythenorth> that’s not how trunk commits get made ;)
18:30:35  <supermop_> i just acheived a goal of deliver 1000 mnsp to a flour mill, then busy bee gave me a goal to deliver more mnsp to the same mill
18:31:03  <supermop_> fine as i already have trains headed there, but is that intended?
18:36:47  <andythenorth> there is code in recent BB to try and avoid it
18:36:56  <andythenorth> it’s mostly succesful in my test games
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18:42:00  <supermop_> ah this is rewarding bee
18:46:53  <supermop_> express emus all seem to be 21,000 mm, and commuter all 20,000 (except for very old 17,000mm ones from the 20s)
18:47:08  <supermop_> going to use 7/8 for all of those
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19:04:46  <andythenorth> supermop_: sometimes it’s useful to consider visual progression
19:04:56  <andythenorth> i.e. generations look longer / bigger
19:05:06  <andythenorth> other times, it’s more useful to keep train lengths unchanged
19:05:09  <andythenorth> potato / potato
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19:06:17  <supermop_> assuming user replaces like for like, increasing car  length could make trains protude from platforms and get stuck in termini?
19:06:21  <frosch123> i prefer noodles and rice
19:06:46  <andythenorth> noodles / rice
19:06:47  <andythenorth> hmm
19:06:52  <supermop_> frosch123 is still in singapore?
19:06:56  <andythenorth> dunno if the analogy holds :)
19:06:57  <frosch123> not necessarily together :p
19:07:09  <frosch123> supermop_: nope, back to normal
19:07:13  <andythenorth> rice noodles
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19:11:44  <supermop_> pho
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19:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a rice noodle?
19:47:43  <Taede> thin noodles you usually put in soup
19:47:50  <Wolf01>
19:47:52  <Taede> also known as glass noodle
19:48:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, glass noodles i know. never heard the term "rice noodle" for those, though
19:48:22  <Wolf01> I always order that when I go on a chinese restaurant
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19:54:52  <supermop_> don't think anyone calls banh pho "glass noodles"
19:55:16  <Wolf01> indeed they are more like plastic
19:56:22  <Samu> hi
19:56:34  <Wolf01> hi
19:56:37  <Samu> who's a savegame expert?
19:56:52  <Samu> saveload.cpp file
19:59:37  <Samu> the issue i have is a savegame file that used lzo encoder
20:01:38  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: noodles made of rice
20:02:09  <Wolf01> IE, is that you?
20:02:13  <frosch123> about everything you can make from some grain you can make from about any grain
20:02:49  <supermop_> man researching steam locomotives really doesn't hold my interest
20:02:51  * andythenorth has been exploring this a lot
20:03:00  <andythenorth> due to body can’t process wheat
20:03:13  <supermop_> andythenorth: just eat pho
20:03:35  * andythenorth is eating corn pasta
20:03:40  <Samu> when the server is generating a map, the client attempting to join receives a timeout error
20:04:06  <Samu> (because the server is taking time to generate a 4096x4096 map)
20:04:17  <Samu> how do i increase this timeout thing?
20:04:21  <frosch123> andythenorth: there is a gluten free restaurant in my town with corn pasta
20:04:31  <frosch123> my niece cannot handle gluten
20:08:51  <supermop_> just end up reading about old rail disasters instead
20:09:40  <Samu> there is a bug somewhere in the saveload.cpp in one of the builds, i had a lzma error earlier today, and now i can't reproduce it for some reason
20:09:56  <Samu> i was messing with the different builds
20:10:21  <Wolf01> you saved it with x64 release, does it work now?
20:11:20  <Samu> there is another issue with the lzo too, but the lzma error kind of surprised me
20:11:34  <Samu> i'm testing all the different encoding methods
20:12:08  <Samu> i remember lzma was set in the code to use preset 9 which is very memory intensive
20:12:22  <Samu> i'm not really sure what was the build, if 32-bit debug or 32-bit release
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20:12:50  <Samu> and then the issue was that i was using another client to joing the server
20:13:16  <Samu> so, i had 2 builds, not sure if the 2nd build was also 32-bit or 64-bit, i have to test all combinations
20:14:18  <Samu> it appears that the server failed to create the savefile
20:14:27  <Samu> and the client attempting to join, could not load the save
20:15:24  <Samu> but since this was me experimenting with preset 9, i don't know if you really care about it
20:19:09  <Samu> about the lzo: when the build is release x64, it cannot load the savegame encoded in lzo. but apparently all builds can generate the savegame correctly
20:21:20  <supermop_> andythenorth: 1870,1890, 1900, 1910, 1920, 1940 enough steam engines?
20:21:33  <andythenorth> there’s no right amount :)
20:21:56  <andythenorth> one every 10 years is quite closely spaced
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20:23:50  <supermop_> ooh a DanMacK
20:24:11  <supermop_> this guy seems like he may know a thing or two about steam trains?
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20:27:39  <Eddi|zuHause> an andythenorth and a DanMacK can never be in the same place at the same time!
20:28:12  <supermop_> andythenorth: that sequence is: general, express, general, general, heavy freight, general
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20:32:46  <sim-al2> Small detail, but some cars seem to be 19500mm long, with 20000mm long end cars
20:33:12  <sim-al2> Some private railways still use 18000mm long cars
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20:35:22  <andythenorth> that is indeed a small detail
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20:40:30  <Arioch> test
20:40:36  *** Arioch [] has quit []
20:40:41  <sim-al2> oh
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20:41:12  <Arioch_Tmp> hello! anyone is active ?
20:41:24  <sim-al2> hi
20:41:31  <supermop_> i feel like 6 engines is enough, but seems weird to be in a situation where the "fast engine" is much older than the "slow engine"
20:42:26  <Arioch_Tmp> can anyon report bug for 1.6.0 ? i have no account there...
20:42:39  <Arioch_Tmp> Sad, i did not make it timely with 1.6rc1
20:43:00  <sim-al2> Yeah, seems that there used to be general-purpose engines that were used on passenger and freight, and geared high, but replaced with dedicated engines in recent times
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20:45:53  <Samu> i have a bad habit of not taking notes of the tests I conduct :(
20:48:45  <Wolf01> just read the chat logs
20:49:54  <andythenorth> run a keylogger
20:49:55  <andythenorth> :P
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20:51:49  <Samu> generating a world in debug mode takes sooo much time :(
20:53:01  <supermop_> should dates be revised so that there is a bigger gap between engines, but "different" engines are released closer together
20:53:21  <andythenorth> I tend to release pax and freight at same time
20:53:39  <andythenorth> otherwise you get weird effects where new pax engine is boss for freight, but only for 7 years or so
20:53:47  <andythenorth> kind of odd
20:53:50  <andythenorth> not good hax
20:55:15  <supermop_> these wikipedia pages will say things like "x was the most powerful japanese steam locomotive" but not say what the HP was
20:55:33  <supermop_> but they will give the diameter of every wheel
20:55:55  <sim-al2> Steam locomotive horsepower is somewhat difficult, compared to combustion engine
20:56:20  <supermop_> the "real" fastest JNR steam engine seems to top out at 80mph
20:56:24  <sim-al2> There are formulas to calculate if you have the size of the grate, etc
20:56:30  <supermop_> might need to fake that upward
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20:57:11  <sim-al2> 130 km/h is pretty fast on 1067mm gauge already
20:57:20  <sim-al2> Especially pre-war
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20:57:48  <supermop_> yeah that is the record for a NG steam train globally
20:58:02  <supermop_> or at least was
20:58:11  <sim-al2> Many of the normal carriages used into the 70's had a top speed of only 95km/h
20:58:58  <sim-al2> Pretty much all locomotive-hauled express trains were timetabled for 100km/h, but allowed 110km/h if required to make up time
20:59:21  <supermop_> i should make room for another 30s/40s/50s locomotive - because these huge smoke deflectors look badass
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21:00:02  <andythenorth> steam locomotive HP is easy to set
21:00:19  <andythenorth> the numbers in the brit roster are about right for the speeds needed
21:00:40  <andythenorth> and there’s little to be gained from changing them, unless the whole roster is slower, in which case reduce by 10% or whatever
21:00:46  <andythenorth> low HP is boring to play with though
21:01:38  <sim-al2> Though when you're dealing with engines of less than 1000hp like many of these narrow gauge engines were, 10% is a big deal
21:03:56  <sim-al2> Supermop, check this site out:
21:04:58  <sim-al2> Has maximum horsepower at the drivers (PS is a German horsepower unit, really really close to American/British definitions of horsepower)
21:06:38  <sim-al2> The C62 seems to be rated for "only" 1620PS, and normal service speed is 100 km/h
21:07:44  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
21:08:11  <supermop_> 1600 is fine i think
21:08:39  <supermop_> ill just step each worse engine incrementally downward from that
21:09:05  <sim-al2> It's worth mentioning, but often the record speed of a locomotive is far higher than what could actually be reasonably used in service
21:09:28  <supermop_> i was thinking my little bear, which will be the first diesel, in the 50s or so will be 800 hp
21:09:38  <sim-al2> The Mallard for example starting overheating during it's run
21:10:17  <supermop_> if players want to run 1 car trains downhill they should be able to get high speeds though
21:10:52  <supermop_> you can always set your service speed downward with timetables
21:11:00  <sim-al2> True
21:12:24  <supermop_> the shear number of types introduced there in the 30s has be wondering if my list is skewed too early
21:12:58  <supermop_> i don't want to buy a ton of locomotive right before i start electrifying though
21:13:34  <sim-al2> Electrification began very early in Japan, but didn't really finish all the major lines until the late 60's
21:13:54  <sim-al2> Steam lasted into the 70's in the rural areas, especially the far north and south
21:14:37  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
21:26:52  <Wolf01> I really miss Japan :(
21:27:52  <supermop_> sim-al2: any player starting a game in 1900 or so will have plenty of cash to electrify almost everything by the 50s
21:32:08  <sim-al2> Yeah, the game mechanics allow that pretty easily, can't really prevent it
21:37:06  <supermop_> i dont want to have only one locomotive from 1870 until 1920, then a flood of new options for the last 20-30 years of steam
21:37:53  <sim-al2> There were a variety of imports during the 1870's
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21:57:08  <Samu> sometimes i feel like i'm the only one testing stuff no one cares about
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21:57:49  <Wolf01> it might be :/
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22:15:53  <Samu> this is what I'm testing, still working on it
22:15:54  <Samu>
22:16:02  <Samu> only made a few tests
22:17:54  <Samu> lzma 2 means = using lzma filter with default compression which points to preset 2 of lzma
22:18:07  <Samu> what openttd currently has set
22:22:37  <Samu> the most boring part of these tests is generating a 4096x4096 map in debug mode :(
22:22:47  <Samu> takes ~13 minutes :(
22:22:57  <Samu> why is debug mode so slow'
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22:37:02  <Wolf01> why don't you just load a savegame?
22:37:43  <Samu> i do that in the 2nd phase of the test
22:38:12  <Samu> first, generate, have clients load, then save, then load
22:38:25  <Samu> clients join*
22:38:33  <Samu> erm just 1 client in this case*
22:40:48  <Samu> im surprised that the debug can save in less than 20 seconds, else the client would receive a "server did not answer in xx seconds" timeout :(
22:44:58  <Samu> this wouldn't be the case with a stronger preset
22:45:04  <Samu> t.t
22:52:17  <Wolf01> \o/ 15 minutes to update the smartphone
22:52:54  <Wolf01> ok... it was the first step
22:53:17  <Wolf01> I had the impression it was too fast
23:00:36  <Samu> seems like i triggered something erroneous
23:01:26  <Wolf01> 'night
23:01:29  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:02:30  <Samu> when the client was joining the server, and the server was doing the save to send to client, I went to the load game menu on the server and clicked a savegame from the list.
23:02:40  <Samu> server got stuck
23:03:42  <Samu> client got "network connection lost" error and went back to main menu
23:03:47  <Samu> server is stuck...
23:03:51  <Samu> cant interact
23:05:39  <Samu> anything i can see on visual studio? it doesn't say anything special, just it lets me pause
23:05:46  <Samu> gonna try pause
23:08:43  <Samu> last action points to a Sleep(1) inside a for kind of loop
23:08:56  <Samu> win32_v.cpp
23:09:33  <Samu> 			/* The game loop is the part that can run asynchronously.
23:09:41  <Samu> 			 * The rest except sleeping can't. */
23:10:05  <Samu> 			/* Release the thread while sleeping */
23:10:10  <Samu> and the sleep is there
23:10:18  <Samu> i think it's doing this indefinitely
23:10:30  <Samu> but  idont know for sure, i can't really understand this code
23:11:21  <Samu> crap, sorry, i was looking at the wrong visual studio
23:11:29  <Samu> ignore this sleep stuff
23:12:23  <Samu> paused the correct openttd now, Call Stack says: 	[External Code]
23:12:29  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
23:12:34  <Samu>  	[Frames below may be incorrect and/or missing, no symbols loaded for ntdll.dll]
23:12:43  <Samu> there's nothing below
23:12:49  <Samu> what now?
23:21:26  <Samu> HALP
23:21:45  <Samu> just noticed the Thread dropdown menu
23:22:20  <Samu> there's Main Thread with: WaitForSingleObject(this->thread, INFINITE);
23:22:48  <Samu> there's 2 other openttd:start_threads with: this->BeginCritical();
23:22:50  <Samu> both
23:23:09  <Samu> oops thread_start*
23:24:46  <Samu> everyone's asleep? :(
23:25:06  <Samu> gonna try reproduce this with 1.6.0, see if it also happens there
23:28:25  <Samu> yup, it happens
23:28:43  <Samu> since everyone's asleep, i'm creating a bug report
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