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00:11:32 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:42 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:21:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:22:14 *** dpk [~dpk@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:22:39 *** APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:22:47 *** dpk [~dpk@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined #openttd 00:22:53 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:23:02 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 00:25:25 *** Goddesen [~quassel@51.174.164.106] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:26:45 *** APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 00:27:37 *** Goddesen [~quassel@51.174.164.106] has joined #openttd 00:28:13 *** Alkel_U3 [~alkel@252.244.forpsi.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:29:23 *** Alkel_U3 [~alkel@252.244.forpsi.net] has joined #openttd 00:31:10 *** APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has quit [] 00:33:25 *** APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 00:34:12 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 00:34:47 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 00:37:17 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e31939b.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 00:37:43 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e31939b.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 00:38:46 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e31939b.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [] 00:44:24 *** joepie91 [~sven@2001:980:a4ca:1:7a2b:cbff:fee1:2550] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:43 *** joepie91 [~sven@2001:980:a4ca:1:7a2b:cbff:fee1:2550] has joined #openttd 00:56:39 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:01 *** Long_yanG [~long@15255.s.time4vps.eu] has joined #openttd 00:58:57 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has joined #openttd 01:02:22 *** Netsplit magnet.oftc.net <-> kinetic.oftc.net quits: heffer_, rah, _dp_, APTX, FR^2, joepie91, Osai, Nothing4You, LongyanG, JezK_, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 01:03:50 *** Netsplit over, joins: APTX 01:05:35 *** joepie91 [~sven@2001:980:a4ca:1:7a2b:cbff:fee1:2550] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** kais58_ [~kais58@88.98.85.222] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** monsted [~monsted@rootweiler.dk] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@2001:41d0:1:f924::1] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** Nothing4You [N4Y@nothing4you.w.tf-w.tf] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** rah [rah@verain.settrans.net] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** Osai [~Osai@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** _dp_ [~dP@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe69:152c] has joined #openttd 01:05:35 *** ServerMode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by kinetic.oftc.net 01:05:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ 01:13:21 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:16:50 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 01:16:51 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:55 <Samu> sup 01:17:01 <Samu> forum died for a while 01:17:28 *** chomwitt [~chomwitt@athedsl-118880.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 01:45:25 <Samu> cyas goodnight 01:45:27 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:51:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6AA55.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:55 *** Quinch [~oftc-webi@d205-206-102-151.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 02:00:03 * Quinch pokes head back in 02:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody here. get out again. 02:05:10 <ST2> Quinch poked my marshmallows, which are good to burn and poke him until he gets unconscious :D 02:18:41 <Quinch> You should thank me, marshmallows are in league with the devil. Or Jody Foster. 02:21:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never had marshmallows... 02:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> in my country we have KnÌppelkuchen 02:25:06 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-183-194.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:20 <Quinch> Anyhoo, I have a question, if anyone feels like answering. 02:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a metaanswer to your metaquestion. 02:27:55 <ST2> Quinch, check topic: | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 02:28:04 <Quinch> Hehe. 02:28:55 <Quinch> Basically, if I have a vehicle going A-B-A-C, I'll usually end up with cargo being seemingly reserved for one station even while vehicles heading to the other one are waiting for cargo. 02:29:09 <Quinch> How's that work? 02:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> click on the "+" to see where cargo is going 02:29:25 <ST2> Cargodist experts required 02:29:49 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-183-194.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 02:29:56 <Eddi|zuHause> or set cargodist to "manual" to disable the destinations 02:30:37 <Quinch> What is cargo distribution about anyway? 02:30:48 <ST2> imo, Cargodist enabled in MP servers is a dumb thing - because players can't see it when joining servers 02:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that relevant? 02:32:03 <ST2> and new players don't understand it - and the game don't explain it properly (to a new player joining the game) 02:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Quinch: cargodist gives cargo (especially passengers and mail) a mind of its own instead of blindly getting off at the next station 02:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> makes those cargos more challenging to transport 02:33:15 <Quinch> Go onnnnnn....? 02:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> as they travel longer distances 02:34:12 <ST2> note: don't connect stations that accept pax to where you only want to deliver goods (for example) 02:34:51 <ST2> or you'll get pax go there 02:35:19 <ST2> want* 02:36:20 <ST2> I don't know what people play here, but the biggest online communities of OpenTTD have cargodist disabled 02:36:31 <ST2> I guess that says something 02:36:51 <Quinch> Pax? 02:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that says nothing, as "the biggest online communities" are still only a tiny fraction of the whole playerbase 02:37:15 <ST2> openttdcoop handles 0,ish of ttd players 02:38:31 <Quinch> Another question, power or tractive effort - which one makes the biggest difference? 02:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and i do see how destinations are not fitting short-lived city-builder type games, and get in the way of coop-style megalomanic micromanagement networks 02:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's one of the most requested feature for people trying to build "realistic" networks 02:39:05 <ST2> sorry for "the biggest online communities" making the game popular and growing , gathering new players 02:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> ST2: do you have any data to support that statement? 02:39:34 <ST2> yup 02:39:43 <ST2> and you have too 02:40:29 <ST2> the difference is that I check that data, and you don't 02:40:58 <Eddi|zuHause> why would it be my job to support your random claims? 02:41:14 <ST2> what's my claims? 02:41:23 <ST2> I claimed nothing ^^ 02:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you claimed that "the biggest online communities" are the driving factor of popularity and growth 02:42:05 <ST2> it's a known fact 02:42:15 <ST2> I wasn't claiming 02:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you have no clue how many "known facts" are actually completely false 02:43:02 <ST2> http://www.novapolis.net/graph_community 02:43:11 <ST2> you consider that false? 02:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a blank page 02:43:43 <ST2> recheck your browser 02:43:48 <ST2> or use a real one 02:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but even if there were a graph to show up, how would that prove anything other than that specific online community growing? and help determining whether the growth of the openttd community as a whole is affected by this one way or another? 02:45:51 <ST2> I'm here not to teach people how to use internet browsers - if you don't see that graph, you dnt use free internet at all 02:46:44 <ST2> and you're not a free mind to interpret what's there 02:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sorry if i don't let random webpages steal my energy for their bullshitscripts 02:46:55 <ST2> so, I dnt mind 02:47:49 <ST2> well, it's a graph based on collected data here: http://www.openttd.org/en/servers 02:47:53 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:48:18 <ST2> if not reliable, the source isnt as well 02:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause> sure. but again, how does that prove anything except for self-referential "we're growing because we're growing"? 02:49:08 <ST2> do the math 02:49:18 <ST2> ofc, if you can do that 02:49:36 <ST2> (joking ^^) 02:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> since there is no data on offline-players, there's no math to be done 02:50:28 <ST2> data on "offline-players" ? 02:50:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and if 1% of all offline players ever went to an online server, that's a lot. 02:51:15 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: that's 90's data 02:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> this is a 90's game. 02:51:42 <ST2> today players try OpenTTD online 1st 02:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> also, nobody in the 90's had online play. 02:52:16 <ST2> I noticed as a community admin - I talk to real players that install the game for the 1st time 02:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you're heavily biased towards people that install and then go to online servers. 02:53:12 <ST2> and most of them get OpenTTD because have a MP option 02:53:34 <ST2> Žso, I think you real need to get into the real openttd 02:54:12 <ST2> we have servers with newgrf's and others without them 02:54:35 <ST2> most popular are without... guess why?! 02:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you still don't have data about people who never go online. 02:54:46 <ST2> do you? 02:55:00 <Eddi|zuHause> no, but i did not make unfounded claims 02:55:24 <ST2> because I have more data about the ppl goes online that you 02:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and for the 5th time i tell you that data is BIASED 02:56:14 <ST2> since when BIASED is an OpenTTD thing? 02:57:46 <ST2> unless you caused it... and some communities try to make it better 02:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you're hopeless. goodbye. 02:59:19 <ST2> Thank you :) 02:59:33 <ST2> mind if I quote you? 02:59:43 <ST2> on next events ^^ 03:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 03:00:13 <ST2> thx again ^^ 03:00:43 <ST2> and will be on our Factorio event xD 03:01:39 <ST2> a industry with "Eddi|zuHause" quotes scrolling xD 03:01:48 <ST2> thank you :) 03:05:41 <ST2> oh well, put them too on OpenTTD achievements too 03:06:08 <ST2> thx Eddi|zuHause for some ideas ^^ 03:07:39 <ST2> oh wait, Eddi|zuHause: do you play MP games or you stick to your 03:07:56 <ST2> SP game where you can't lose? 03:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the point of a game where you can lose? 03:08:24 <ST2> (now I'm pushing, I know ^^) 03:08:43 <ST2> OpenTTD 03:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause> games where you can lose were made in the 80s 03:08:59 <ST2> even the vanilla have a winnint stats 03:09:08 <ST2> winning* 03:10:29 <ST2> [04:08:56] <Eddi|zuHause> games where you can lose were made in the 80s <<-- did you stopped there or got that even OpenTTD can have goals now? 03:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause> how do "goals" have anything to do with losing? 03:11:25 <ST2> a game is a game 03:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> if you enjoy losing, play evil mario or something... 03:12:07 <ST2> if you lose a game but respectfully within server rules, it's a good game 03:12:24 <Eddi|zuHause> not for me. 03:12:53 <ST2> that's why we have goals on OpenTTD and even when lost, players say Good Game to the winner 03:13:13 <ST2> I think you need to tune your gameplay better 03:13:36 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: yes, it's to you 03:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> or you need to recognize that players play for vastly different reasons 03:14:27 <ST2> I guess I once invited you to join some of our servers 03:14:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and i guess i never did that. 03:14:59 <ST2> that was your fault 03:15:34 <Eddi|zuHause> why? there would be nothing enjoyable there for me... 03:16:08 <ST2> because we, one of the infamous ttd communities, try to keep players on OpenTTD 03:16:16 <ST2> and them to enjoy the game 03:16:31 <ST2> ánd by the game I mean the GAME 03:16:44 <ST2> the real game, OpenTTD 03:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> claims such as this truly enrage me. 03:17:11 <ST2> to you.... I dnt know 03:17:24 <ST2> I can't place porn in there 03:17:27 <ST2> sorry 03:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you sound like a politician of an opposite party 03:18:21 <ST2> you sound like a polititian on the "no ideas"side 03:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "only i am the bestestest at polititioning. all the other parties are terrible. you must vote for me or you are an idiot" 03:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i have plenty of ideas, but i don't force them down your throat. 03:19:21 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: I understand that you deal with the "code side": I deal with the players side 03:19:27 <ST2> none is easy 03:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that is both untrue and irrelevant. 03:20:09 <ST2> can you elaburate, please 03:20:54 <ST2> [04:19:49] <Eddi|zuHause> that is both untrue and irrelevant. <<-- and for both 03:20:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i made many thousand forum posts, but maybe changed like 100 lines of code ever in openttd... 03:21:03 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so i dealt with many more players than lines of code. 03:21:36 <ST2> Žreally? 03:22:18 <ST2> I made couple forum posts, (including making Alberth anglry with me) 03:22:36 <ST2> and changed thousand lines to code 03:23:02 <ST2> but I got the friend's side on players 03:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i totally see how with your style of argument you make people angry. 03:24:13 <ST2> wait, people angry on what side? 03:24:20 <ST2> players or devs? 03:24:28 <ST2> you must see that 03:25:02 <ST2> because without players, devs are useless 03:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause> any people... 03:25:33 <ST2> wait, people angry on what side? 03:25:43 <ST2> players or devs? 03:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> all the devs are also players 03:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (well, to a certain degree) 03:26:18 <ST2> I know players opinions... I deal with them everyday 03:27:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the point is not about players or devs. the point is you have a very narrow opinion, and you project that opinion onto other people 03:27:29 <ST2> and we, the "communities" deal with ~50% of online players 03:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but your perceived 50% is still just 0.5% 03:28:03 <ST2> unless you have a magic wand to know opinions of offline players 03:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you have a serious case of "filter bubble" going on 03:28:28 <ST2> and that's what I need to know 03:28:42 <ST2> how you get the opinions of offline players 03:28:52 <ST2> is there a secret? 03:29:32 <Eddi|zuHause> a filter bubble is when you surround yourself with people that share your opinion, and then assume that because everyone in your immediate surrounding has that opinion, the opinion must be universal 03:29:53 <ST2> [04:28:17] <Eddi|zuHause> you have a serious case of "filter bubble" going on 03:30:01 <ST2> I know what's that 03:30:04 <ST2> [04:28:26] <ST2> and that's what I need to know 03:30:04 <ST2> [04:28:41] <ST2> how you get the opinions of offline players 03:30:04 <ST2> [04:28:51] <ST2> is there a secret? 03:30:09 <ST2> that I dnt know 03:30:19 <ST2> can you explain? 03:30:21 <ST2> please 03:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there are loads of people in the forum who play mostly single player... just have to listen to them. 03:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> like, check out the screenshot forum. totally different world to your "online community" 03:31:45 <ST2> I listen to them, I mostly listen to posts that are ignored - and I check them all 03:32:00 <ST2> that's my "filter bibble" 03:32:08 <ST2> bubble* 03:32:38 <ST2> if you see my HTPS access, you can see it 03:35:30 <ST2> in case you dnt have acess to that: I loaded ~1500 times the forum 03:35:46 <ST2> last week 03:36:37 <Eddi|zuHause> why would anyone have access to that? 03:36:40 <ST2> so, Eddi|zuHause, you're claiming that people using OpenTTD offline are bigger that online? 03:37:06 <ST2> and where can you check that? 03:37:44 <ST2> by myself, I download 10 times OpenTTD a week 03:37:51 <ST2> an average 03:38:02 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] 03:38:09 <ST2> and on different computers 03:38:35 <ST2> work, home, pub, gf home, etc etc 03:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't check that, because OpenTTD does not record that data. 03:38:48 <ST2> how you measure? 03:38:57 <ST2> it records 03:39:00 <ST2> that data 03:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't measure that, because OpenTTD does not record that data. 03:39:14 <ST2> it records 03:39:17 <ST2> that data 03:39:53 <ST2> for knowing... I repeated 03:40:26 <ST2> ofc, I guess you didn't know that 03:40:43 <ST2> or, can't acess it 03:42:12 <ST2> I can have that data, from my side, whenever I acessed a specific "https" or "svn" or whatever 03:42:57 <ST2> if not controlled from server side, bad 03:43:24 <ST2> huge data there, but if not saved :S 03:44:42 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 03:46:05 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 03:46:18 <ST2> btw, Comodo CA limited, provides all that info 03:46:43 <ST2> ofc, if you have acess to it 03:47:44 <ST2> I guess Eddi|zuHause never played an online game since 1994 03:47:54 <ST2> this nis all strange to him ^^ 03:48:09 *** Dackus [dakkus@taimen.sr2.fi] has joined #openttd 03:50:04 <ST2> and by an online game, I mean not with his "pussy" friends, I mean a REAL online OpenTTD game 03:50:09 *** Dakkus [dakkus@taimen.sr2.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:51:18 <ST2> well, this is how we measure how devs gets envolved with the game itself ^^ 03:52:30 * ST2 me drop mic 03:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause> funny how you "drop the mic" 15 minutes after the conversation ended. 03:56:27 <ST2> well, was way better that say that to all! 03:56:35 <ST2> but now you did :S 03:57:07 <ST2> I was waiting a reply 03:57:27 <ST2> none = drop mic, he quited 03:58:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i gave up on this conversation like an hour ago, but you can't take hints, obviously 03:59:00 <ST2> I could used it earlier, but simply didn't wanted to ashamed you so soon 04:01:43 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host86-135-232-26.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:03:03 <ST2> btw Eddi|zuHause: about OpenTTD, and what we've talked: can you say where you make testings? 04:03:49 <ST2> because our test servers are public and real players can touch it and TEST 04:06:40 <ST2> ** that's how DistCargo appeared - no replies = it's good" ** 04:08:10 *** ToneKnee_ [~quassel@host86-135-237-142.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:14:54 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 04:21:15 *** supermop_ [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds] 04:32:46 *** Quinch [~oftc-webi@d205-206-102-151.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:20:56 <Xal> ST2: I think what Eddi|zuHause was trying to tell you was that the burden of proof lies on the accuser, and claiming that the majority of players play MP requires data to back it up. Because there's no data on the total number of player (offline) there's no way to back up your claim 05:30:18 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:03 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 06:00:37 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d0839f4.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 06:08:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18A69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:10:40 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:12:37 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] 07:20:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:20:56 <Wolf01> o/ 07:25:06 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 07:41:49 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:13:04 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 08:15:05 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 08:49:27 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:04:37 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 09:10:22 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 09:16:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:16:30 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:19:01 <Wolf01> ha... Project Ara (the modular smartphone from LG/Google) lost the full customisation... it will end with just the customisable cover and the ability to replace the battery 09:20:38 <Wolf01> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=564397 also, the guy uploaded the photos of the last exhibition 09:28:35 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 09:34:05 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host86-135-232-26.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:35:18 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:40:01 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd 09:47:28 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e3192cb.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 10:00:19 <Ethereal_Whisper> mfw I split lines and then merged then immediately because I wasn't paying attention 10:00:47 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/RA3YGb8.png GOOD JOB TRICIA 10:01:52 <Wolf01> :) 10:05:19 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm gonna leave the construction in place since it's fully balanced and it would take more work to delete it than it's worth lol 10:28:30 <V453000> 0.13 HYPE 10:28:42 <Wolf01> /¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯||¯¯¯¯\ 10:28:48 <Wolf01> all aboard the hype train 10:28:51 <V453000> TRAINZ 10:28:52 <V453000> BRAINZ 10:38:41 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:43:57 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 11:22:53 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-171-20.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 11:30:54 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 11:34:04 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:40 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd 12:14:22 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:08 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 12:15:26 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd 12:26:37 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:34:30 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest2188 12:34:31 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 12:35:46 <Samu> hi 12:35:49 <Samu> 12:38:30 *** Guest2188 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:44:50 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host206-62-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:44:50 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2190 12:44:50 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 12:46:11 *** Guest2190 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:01 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 12:52:20 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:52:47 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 12:57:54 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 13:12:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 13:14:21 <Samu> i stumbled upon a log with st2 arguing 13:14:38 <Samu> with zu 13:16:00 <Samu> i'm sorry st2, but you started the "war" 13:16:08 <Samu> that's my view on it 13:18:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has left #openttd [] 13:20:51 <Samu> for me, CargoDist is an interesting change of pace, but I agree, it's confusing at first 13:22:31 <supermop> not sure why some people find it offensive 13:26:40 <Samu> the rest of the discussion is... uhm.... "irrelevant" to the topic at hand: CargoDist 13:33:49 <Samu> CargoDist in multiplayer, might work better on those servers without goal, sandbox style 13:38:01 <Samu> I don't think people hate CargoDist because they dislike it, but rather because they don't know how it works. I didn't like it at first, mainly because I didn't know what was happening 13:38:30 <Samu> there is a learning curve that players have to go thru 13:38:54 <Samu> but I guess most don't want to 13:46:45 <Wolf01> I enable it and connect everything, then I'll upgrade some lines or others depending on the needs 13:46:57 <Wolf01> I don't know how it works and I don't want to 13:47:44 <Wolf01> it's just another mean to give some movement to the game, like industry closures and production changes 13:50:16 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 13:50:19 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 13:50:20 <Wolf01> o/ 13:50:26 <Alberth> hi hi 13:53:48 <Samu> yes Wolf01 - i also find CargoDist more tailored towards long lasting games 13:54:27 <Samu> btpro servers are mostly competitive games that don't tend to last too long. 13:54:42 <Samu> i see why it doesn't become popular 13:55:54 <supermop> no reason you can't have a 'competitive' game with CD, it's just that the existing competitive servers and GS use criteria that don't take advantage of it at all 13:59:59 <V453000> every time we tried cargodist, it would start doing weird shit with a big network, and not giving any gameplay benefit at all 14:01:33 <Alberth> solving shit isn't the fun part? :) 14:03:27 <V453000> it was shit you can't solve 14:03:38 <V453000> I don't remember specifically, but it happens every single time 14:03:49 <_dp_> CD is much like a GS on its own, conflicts with almost any other gs/goal. 14:04:17 <V453000> once like 95% of farm supplies prefered 1 farm cluster in FIRS, another time some passengers decided it is a good thing to wait at the station for wtf reason 14:04:24 <V453000> we didn't use any GS 14:04:28 <V453000> it's just trash 14:04:44 <V453000> IF it had a nice gameplay-enhancing concept, I could see the point 14:05:38 <Samu> why would passengers want to go to a farm 14:05:47 <Samu> farm accepts passengers? 14:05:49 <Wolf01> V453000, maybe the other farm paid more, and the passengers were doing something 14:06:06 <V453000> yeah Wolf01 , nope 14:06:16 <Alberth> disabled preference for local delivery, I hope? 14:06:42 <V453000> I don't really know anymore Alberth 14:06:57 <Alberth> but yeah, it starts working when you connect things, so biggest trouble arises when you connect everything(tm) 14:07:12 <V453000> but most likely our settings were proper, most likely I discussed the issue when it was hot in this channel 14:07:40 <Alberth> :) 14:08:44 <Wolf01> the only time I found a weird situation was when I changed the direction of the traffic because I removed an old loop around a lake replacing it with a more suitable (and fast) double track with a bridge, but I had to connect it on the other side of a station 14:09:21 <Wolf01> while before it was A-B-C-D, it bacame A-C-B-C-D and the network exploded 14:09:26 <Wolf01> *became 14:09:30 <V453000> it probably always has a chance do do some weird shit, but since we build huge networks, that chance usually (always so far) gets triggered 14:19:28 <Samu> https://www.openttd.org/en/server/98619 - I joined my server to see how long it would take to fully synchronize 14:19:37 <Samu> 5 minutes 40 seconds 14:22:32 <Samu> 2 min 30 secs to download, then 3 min 10 secs to catch-up 14:22:56 <Samu> there's more than 15k vehicles in it 14:23:43 <Wolf01> http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/awxwvW8_460sv_v1.mp4 could we have these? 14:24:02 <Wolf01> oh wait... there aren't cars in ottd :( 14:24:32 <Wolf01> Anybody who wants to add cars so we can have these? :D 14:25:11 <Samu> 15965 vehicles 14:29:15 <Samu> server is so slow that sometimes it disappears from the master server list 14:29:20 <Samu> then re-appears 14:29:32 <supermop> i never have had 'weird' problems with CD, even with every town on the map connected in one network, and local trams or buses within those towns 14:30:40 <supermop> i do get lines or nodes that become stressed over capacity, but i see that as part of the point of CD, to selectively determine which trunks need more bandwidth 14:31:14 <supermop> rather than a point to point mesh that eventually is just homogeneous over the whole map 14:32:17 <Wolf01> play mini metro, that's paxdest on steroids 14:46:11 <supermop> Wolf01: actually i find homogeneous mesh is a valid strategey in mini metro 14:46:46 <Wolf01> I still fail with every strategy 14:47:43 <Wolf01> tries with a mesh, trunks and branches, triangles, circles, squares, clouds, dogs and dicks 14:47:45 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 14:48:38 <supermop> Wolf01: i dont think it is possible to not fail 14:49:08 <Wolf01> with "fail" I mean that I transport <1000 passengers before failing hard 14:49:26 <Wolf01> usually I'm on 480-650 14:53:53 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-0-223.washdc.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:06:00 <Samu> i have a problem to solve, it requires savegame conversion 15:06:42 <Samu> "- Implemented a fix that corrects the name of AIs that are started via startai command in the console when the parameter also included the version. Saving a game will thus, store the correct name of the AI from now on. Loading previous savegames that have stored the incorrect name will still fail to recognize the intended name of the AI." 15:09:13 <Samu> i wanted to convert the name that is incorrectly stored on old saves into the correct name 15:10:28 <Samu> problem is that how would it distinguish which name is right from which name is wrong 15:11:00 <Samu> something Wolf01 said to me yesterday 15:11:41 <Samu> there is no real way to tell, is it? 15:16:16 <Wolf01> I said that was the wrong approach for the problem 15:17:17 <Wolf01> maybe you should find why it pass the folder name to the function instead of the display name, and not trying to fix the string at the end 15:18:48 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e3192cb.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 15:20:41 <Samu> it doesn't pass folder name 15:20:56 <Samu> i type in console: startai wormai.4 15:21:26 <Samu> it takes the 'wormai.4' part to search for a wormai with version 4, it does this part correctly 15:21:43 <Samu> however, it forgets to put the correct name once it finds it 15:21:55 <Samu> it leaves wormai.4 as the name of the AI 15:22:23 <Wolf01> then you need to get the real name when the search function finds it 15:22:40 <Samu> my fix was actually that 15:23:34 <Wolf01> but you shouldn't edit the strings directly (eg. removing the .4) 15:24:11 <Samu> i put this after line 25 of script_config.cpp 15:24:13 <Samu> this->name = (info == NULL) ? NULL : stredup(GetInfo()->GetName()); 15:24:44 <Samu> info == NULL would mean that it did not find any wormai with version 4 15:26:53 <Samu> if there is INFO, it changes this->name into the intended name 15:27:08 <Samu> this->name goes from wormai.4 to WormAI 15:30:23 <Samu> I am, however, wondering if this fix breaks something else 15:30:32 <Samu> i am assuming that it doesn't 15:30:51 <Wolf01> you need to find where is used this->name 15:31:20 <Samu> it is used on ai_sl.cpp for example 15:31:29 <Samu> both saving and loading 15:31:59 <Wolf01> then you might want to add this->realname and use that, leaving this->name untouched 15:44:01 <Samu> you're right, i can't do it like this 15:46:04 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:51:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:57:31 <Samu> if (this->info != NULL) this->name = (GetInfo()->GetName()); 15:57:45 <Samu> pff :( 15:58:28 <Wolf01> it's almost the same as before 15:58:32 <Samu> doesn't change "none" to NULL anymore, but... it's the wrong approach 15:59:09 <Wolf01> also, I need to sleep 16:01:28 <Samu> woah, it really is searching for a scriptI by the name none 16:01:50 <Samu> what would happen if someone actually creates an AI with this name 16:03:02 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:03:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:05:50 <Samu> i got to fix it at the console_cmds.cpp 16:09:47 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:18:32 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:26:29 <Samu> config->Change(config->GetInfo()->GetName()); - pointer to incomplete class type is not allowed 16:26:38 <Samu> :( 16:29:38 <Samu> 3>..\src\console_cmds.cpp(1175): error C2027: use of undefined type 'AIInfo' 16:29:43 <Samu> 3> d:\openttd\trunk\src\company_base.h(118): note: see declaration of 'AIInfo' 16:29:48 <Samu> 3>..\src\console_cmds.cpp(1175): error C2227: left of '->GetName' must point to class/struct/union/generic type 16:31:52 <Samu> company_base.h, line 118: class AIInfo *ai_info; 16:32:07 <Samu> I have no idea what I'm looking at :( 16:33:28 <Samu> these errors are chinese to me, no idea what's undefined, what's declaration, what's class/struct/union... :( 16:39:19 <TrueBrain> buy any C++ book? 16:39:30 <TrueBrain> or .. any programming book, if class/struct/union is unknown to you 16:41:44 <Alberth> nah, that would be too easy 16:42:33 <TrueBrain> I am afraid the word is: too hard :P 16:42:50 <Alberth> also a valid option :) 16:43:09 <Alberth> quak 16:43:28 <TrueBrain> I am still considering frosch only boots up till someone said quak .. 16:43:54 <Alberth> he reads the log, looking for quaks :) 16:43:59 <frosch123> hoi mammals and gastropodes :) 16:44:28 <TrueBrain> I am gassy today, that is for sure 17:03:22 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:52 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:06:25 <Samu> omg I think I did it 17:08:00 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/puz8c3l3n 17:08:01 <Alberth> all problems solved \o/ 17:08:46 <Samu> I hope it is correcting the name now 17:08:53 <Samu> gonna make sure 17:10:13 <Samu> hmm, i guess not 17:10:32 <Samu> nop, grrr 17:11:02 <Samu> I only want to change the name, not the whole script 17:12:34 <Samu> removed 17:15:22 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqbqzlwvt - reverted to this fix, it does it better, but at the risk of not being compatible with the so many other functions that make use of this 17:51:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B6FD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:02:54 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 18:06:37 <Wolf01> you don't even need the else, just put the code between the 2 ifs 18:09:39 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host109-148-29-203.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:12:37 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #openttd 18:12:42 <Samu> Change(stuff, stuff, stuff, stuff) - does a lot of stuff than just changing the name :( 18:13:07 <Samu> void ScriptConfig::Change(const char *name, int version, bool force_exact_match, bool is_random) 18:16:19 <Samu> AIInfo *AIScannerInfo::FindInfo(const char *nameParam, int versionParam, bool force_exact_match) 18:16:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:16:34 <Samu> this is the real information retriever 18:16:55 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:17:21 <Samu> there's a GameInfo version too 18:19:40 <Samu> feels like a network of functions 18:21:54 <Samu> but what I wanted to say was that, https://paste.openttdcoop.org/puz8c3l3n - line 19 is doing it wrong 18:22:51 <Samu> it changes the name, yes, but then also searches the system for an AI with the changed name, and if I had told to start version 4 of wormai, now it is going to load the most up-date version, so I can't do it like that 18:23:20 <Samu> it was going to load version 5 18:25:22 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 18:30:12 <Samu> hi w 18:30:15 <Samu> Wormnest: 18:30:46 <Wormnest> hi :) 18:31:07 <Samu> i made a fix, but it's far from perfect https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqbqzlwvt?/pqbqzlwvt 18:32:41 <Samu> there are a lot of functions that depend on Change function 18:33:04 <Wormnest> Nice, does it work for all cases now? 18:33:30 <Samu> I don't know how to answer that 18:33:43 <Samu> old saves won't work 18:33:47 <Samu> they stored the wrong name 18:34:04 <Samu> loading them back will still give the same error you were getting 18:34:17 <Wormnest> Well IŽm not too sure thatŽs correct 18:34:22 <Samu> new saves, however, will store the correct name 18:34:46 <Samu> loading back will not give that error, but will still load the latest available version of WormAI 18:34:48 <Wormnest> IŽve been thinking about it and I think storing wormai.4 instead of wormai was on purpose 18:35:21 <Samu> oh really? :( 18:35:33 <Wormnest> It was done to differentiate with a normally loaded ai 18:36:13 <Wormnest> This also means I think that the purpose was to be able to load back the explicitly set version of the ai 18:36:16 <andythenorth> is cat? 18:36:56 <Samu> you're refering to the 2nd savegame? it has it stored as WormAI 18:37:08 <Samu> how did you start it? 18:37:50 <Samu> the bug is originated from within the console :( 18:37:52 <Wormnest> no the first 18:38:28 <Samu> 1st savegame has it stored as wormai.4 - this was what you had input in the console 18:38:29 <Wormnest> starting as startai wormai.4 stores name in savegame as wormai.4 18:38:43 <Wormnest> but starting normal saves as wormai 18:39:15 <Samu> it's a console command bug in my opinion, what led me to check what was is really doing 18:39:41 <Wormnest> I think itŽs on purpose but I might be wrong 18:40:03 <Wormnest> If you add a command to load an explicit version of an ai instead of the latest version 18:40:27 <Wormnest> It also makes sense that you would want to load that version back from a savegame 18:40:59 <Wormnest> Thus you cannot save it as wormai and store version 4, but you need to add something thus wormai.4 18:41:20 <Samu> it stores both, name and version 18:41:37 <Samu> name was being stored as wormai.4, version was stored as 4 18:41:40 <Wormnest> Yes 18:41:52 <Samu> uhm yes? so hmm I'm confused 18:42:15 <Wormnest> But if it stored name as wormai then you could not distinguis between wormai loaded normally 18:42:43 <Wormnest> and an older wormai version loaded explicitly when a newer version was already available 18:43:37 <Samu> min_loadable_version for both version 4 and version 5 is 1 18:43:46 <Wormnest> thatŽs why it stores it as wormai.4 meaning ok we know this isnŽt the latest version but thatŽs the one we want 18:44:17 <Samu> hmm let me test again with my fix 18:44:45 <Wormnest> but ofcourse IŽm only guessing IŽm not the one who wrote the code :) 18:45:00 <Samu> there's more checkings done other than just the name 18:45:10 <Samu> it checks version if it finds an ai with that name 18:45:28 <Samu> since it was working with the wrong name, it wasn't even going to check the version 18:45:59 <Wormnest> Yea that was clear from the console messages 18:46:34 <Samu> let me find the piece of code that works with that information 18:46:53 <Samu> if (strcasecmp(ai_name, i->GetName()) == 0 && i->CanLoadFromVersion(versionParam) && (version == -1 || i->GetVersion() > version)) { 18:47:06 <Wormnest> By the way the documentation claims that the intention is to always load the version of the ai it was saved with: 18:47:10 <Wormnest> http://noai.openttd.org/docs/trunk/classAIController.html#_details 18:48:02 <Samu> strcasecmp(ai_name, i->GetName()) == 0 - this part was always false 18:48:12 <Samu> version was never checked 18:49:08 <Samu> it's quite a labyrinth of information being passed around 18:49:30 <Wormnest> I bet 18:49:42 <Alberth> hi hi andythenorth 18:50:03 *** kais58__ [~kais58@88.98.85.222] has joined #openttd 18:50:36 <Samu> i->CanLoadFromVersion - this i is the script it found on the system, there's 2 wormais in my rig, wormai version 4 and wormai version 5 18:50:58 <Samu> it finds wormai 4 first 18:51:27 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:51:40 <Samu> compares the min_loadable_version that is on wormai 4 in the system and the version stored in the savegame 18:51:53 <Samu> then does the same for wormai 5 18:52:20 <Samu> and comes up with the most up to date version which can load that save, it's wormai 5 18:52:29 <Samu> at least it's what I think it's doing 18:52:49 *** kais58_ [~kais58@88.98.85.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:52:58 <Samu> had you set wormai 5 with a min loadable version of 5 18:53:07 <Samu> i bet it would only load wormai 4 18:53:20 <Wormnest> ThatŽs what I think itŽs doing too, the question is was that really the intention 18:53:33 <Wormnest> possibly 18:54:18 <Samu> savegame stored it as 4, forgot to mention 19:00:55 <Samu> i'm reading those docs 19:01:14 <Samu> heh, how do you guys always find this documentation 19:02:02 <Alberth> usually by function name 19:02:32 <Alberth> ie you look for a function name that looks what you are looking for , go to it, and start reading 19:03:10 <Samu> i just follow visual studio jumping around and try to understand why 19:03:52 <Alberth> I run grep with parts of names that the function likely contains 19:05:24 <Samu> there's 5 different results i see 19:05:52 <Samu> with the bug it was jumping towards result 3 in that doc 19:07:08 <Samu> with the fix, it jumps to 2, it seems 19:07:08 <Samu> load the latest version of the same script that supports loading data from the saved version (the version of saved data must be equal or greater than AIInfo::MinVersionToLoad), 19:07:34 <Samu> it skips version 4, because version 5 is compatible 19:07:39 <Samu> step 1 is skipped 19:15:32 <Samu> https://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Save/Load - hmm the explanation here 19:15:42 <Samu> convinces me there's something wrong 19:16:23 <Samu> As soon as one step succeeds, the sequence is stopped: Try to load the exact same version of the same AI. 19:16:55 <Samu> it isn't doing exactly like this 19:17:03 <Samu> why? 19:18:13 <Samu> as soon as one step succeeds, the sequence is stopped, hmm... that's not what I see it doing 19:19:40 <Samu> Try to load the exact same version of the same AI. - it finds it, but it doesn't stop here, it is iterating over all versions 19:20:01 <Samu> and gets the most up to date that is compatible 19:20:55 <Samu> documentation says that it stops :( 19:21:17 <Samu> it's not what it does in the code, or .... uhm... whatever 19:21:29 <Alberth> one of them is wrong, and it's not the code :p 19:22:12 <Alberth> although you should probably check the changes in that area, see what was changed last 19:25:22 <Wormnest> I think loading the latest version is indeed the intention 19:25:45 <Wormnest> Except maybe for the case where you explicitly loaded an older version of an ai 19:26:09 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 19:26:47 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 19:27:12 <Samu> i see, let me check what comes next 19:27:55 <Samu> line 86 config->Change(_ai_saveload_name, _ai_saveload_version, false, _ai_saveload_is_random); 19:28:16 <Samu> tries to match name and version 19:28:42 <Samu> it does not find it, so next step is in line... 19:28:56 <Samu> line 90 config->Change(_ai_saveload_name, -1, false, _ai_saveload_is_random); 19:29:59 <Samu> only tries to match name now 19:30:51 <Samu> name is still wormai.4, it takes .4 it splits it into 2 parts, wormai and 4 19:31:46 <Samu> /* We want to load the latest version of this AI; so find it */ 19:31:56 <Samu> /* If we didn't find a match AI, maybe the user included a version */ 19:32:06 <Samu> yes, but why in the name? 19:32:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B6FD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:11 <Samu> /* See if there is a compatible AI which goes by that name, with the highest * version which allows loading the requested version */ 19:33:38 <Samu> it's doing this cycle again, but now with the name separated from the version 19:34:48 <Samu> versionParam is 4, even though it was -1 initially 19:35:23 <Samu> it is still going to load version 5 19:35:37 <Samu> but this time, it is discarding the saved data 19:36:19 <Samu> DEBUG(script, 0, "The latest version of that AI has been loaded instead, but it'll not get the savegame data as it's incompatible."); 19:36:21 <Samu> yeah 19:36:44 <Samu> AI::Load(index, _ai_saveload_version); _ai_saveload_version at this point is -1 19:36:59 <Samu> -1 means, discard whatever was saved 19:37:50 <Samu> if (this->engine == NULL || version == -1) { LoadEmpty(); 19:38:00 <Samu> yep 19:48:53 <Samu> gonna try force_exact_match = true 19:49:33 <Samu> line 86 of ai_sl.cpp, changing it to config->Change(_ai_saveload_name, _ai_saveload_version, true, _ai_saveload_is_random); 19:49:51 <Samu> see what happens :p 19:50:41 <Samu> oops, this is line 90, i'm stupid 19:50:56 <Samu> config->Change(_ai_saveload_name, _ai_saveload_version, true, _ai_saveload_is_random); 19:51:02 <Samu> line 86 19:55:37 <Samu> 0x000000caf1cfe340 "wormai.4.4" - keks, it's doing worse 19:58:02 <Samu> it took wormai.4, and appended .4 at the end of it, now it's searching for wormai.4.4 on the system, there is no such version 19:58:11 <Samu> there is wormai.4 and wormai.5 19:58:27 <Samu> this is so messed up 20:00:04 <Samu> and now, it is comparing wormai.4 to WormAI 20:00:37 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 20:01:01 <Samu> hmm :( 20:02:29 <Samu> gonna try yet another approach 20:06:54 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:07:44 <Samu> yes, it loaded wormai.4 from the savegame 20:08:32 <Samu> but.... hmm.... 20:09:01 <Samu> i'm not totally sure if this is without issues, needs more testing 20:10:10 <Samu> if I do this to ai_sl.cpp, i must do it to game_sl.cpp as well 20:13:24 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pyjs64de7 - here's what i'm testing 20:13:41 <Samu> however, i'm worried about passing -1 as the version 20:13:59 <Samu> dinner time, will check this later 20:18:21 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:26:20 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:13 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 20:36:33 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:29 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:42:07 <Samu> back 20:42:16 <Samu> can't pass version -1 at that point :( 20:49:26 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e3192cb.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 20:50:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:52:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:07:21 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:09:27 *** Emiel [~oftc-webi@541E0E63.cm-5-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:09:37 <Emiel> hello? 21:09:52 * Emiel slaps ST2 around a bit with a large fishbot 21:17:56 *** Emiel [~oftc-webi@541E0E63.cm-5-7a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:29:10 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:29:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 21:32:44 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:35:58 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:13 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-171-20.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 21:44:18 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d0839f4.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:53:35 <Samu> i have another fix in testing 21:54:06 <Samu> this one required me to write a bit of code 21:54:15 <Samu> more like... copy pasting code 22:00:09 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 22:05:20 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:05:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18A69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:58 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxkc1qh0d 22:09:06 <Samu> this is yet my best approach 22:12:59 <Samu> seems to be doing what the documentation wants it to do 22:16:03 <Samu> ah man... not really 22:18:51 <Samu> :( this is tiresome work 22:53:46 <Wolf01> 'night 22:53:49 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:50:04 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phjib9464 - another attempt 23:51:53 <Samu> I'm really tired 23:59:00 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e3192cb.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta]