Log for #openttd on 17th July 2016:
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00:30:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: yes, alignment for array members must be powers of two, so 1 byte, 2 bytes, 4 bytes, 8 bytes, 16 bytes...
00:31:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so when you want to store 9 bytes, it's better to have one array with 8 byte members, and one with 1 byte members
00:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise the 9 bytes would be rounded up to 16 bytes
00:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause> which is a giant amount of wasted space, if you have 4 million array members
00:34:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it's easier on 32bit systems, because the doubling stops after you reach the bitwidth, so you can have 3 times 32bit, so 12 bytes
00:34:52  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's still 3 bytes wasted for every 9 bytes stored
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05:00:57  <MonkeyDrone> hello people
05:01:08  <MonkeyDrone> i've a gameplay related query
05:01:50  <MonkeyDrone> i placed a second train station with CTRL and it is some distance away from the other one. I want to remove it now but it says train in station , even though this part is abandoned and empty. How can i remove it?
05:03:27  <MonkeyDrone> ooo clear tool , fancy ;p
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07:46:42  <andythenorth> o/
07:50:26  <Alberth> o/
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08:11:14  <andythenorth> hmm
08:19:58  <andythenorth> foundry transporters
08:20:03  * andythenorth deletes them
08:24:30  <Milek7> Eddi|zuHause: i think it is overoptimization
08:24:44  <Milek7> these days there is a lot of available memory
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08:33:52  <Alberth> and still not enough cpu time
08:33:56  <Alberth> hola
08:36:21  <frosch123> hoi
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09:17:03  <MonkeyDronez> oi
09:17:10  <MonkeyDronez> ooo frosch123
09:17:21  <MonkeyDronez> can i eat your head for a minute? :D
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09:18:10  <frosch123> i need it for drinking tea
09:19:09  <MonkeyDronez> hehe, i've a question regarding server-side scripting. All these gaming communities have scripts setup that do motd privately to people and have aliases setup. I did assign a alias on server side but it doesn't transfer to the clients. I was wondering if you know how how it all works.
09:20:08  <frosch123> i think they all use "soap"
09:20:34  <frosch123>
09:20:37  <frosch123> and related tools
09:21:06  <MonkeyDronez> alright, thank you frosch123 , i'll look into it
09:21:12  <MonkeyDronez> just need some direction to go with
09:26:15  <MonkeyDronez> btw frosch123 , has V453000 talked to you yet about 3D?
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09:44:40  <Wolf01> o/
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09:49:28  <Milek7> "Pack a VehicleListIdentifier in a single uint32."
09:49:34  <Milek7> overoptimization again
09:50:26  <Alberth> the program was written in the previous century
09:51:02  <Milek7> openttd?
09:51:05  <Milek7> or original ttd?
09:51:07  <Alberth> where nobody would ever need more than 640K
09:51:22  <Alberth> and it was expected to sell 5 computers to a country
09:52:04  <Alberth> the former was constructed from the latter
09:53:54  <Alberth> VehicleListIdentifier is a bit different, it was that or turning the entire program upside down
09:54:48  <Wolf01> oh, speaking about code, in the GetButtonArrangement() member function could I replace the numbers for the byte array arrangement with the enum values?
09:56:05  <Milek7> ./nat/x86-linux-dregs.c:146: internal-error: x86_linux_update_debug_registers: Assertion `lwp_is_stopped (lwp)' failed.
09:56:05  <Milek7> A problem internal to GDB has been detected,
09:56:08  <Milek7> oops
09:57:05  <Alberth> Wolf01: :O such a treasure for refactoring!  yes please :)
09:57:31  <Wolf01> more because it's driving me mad
09:57:44  <Alberth> haha, indeed :)
09:58:08  <frosch123> does anyone have gcc-6 ?
09:58:29  <Milek7> milek7: ~$ gcc --version
09:58:29  <Milek7> gcc (GCC) 6.1.1 20160707
09:58:42  <frosch123> what does "gcc -dumpversion" print?
09:59:07  <Milek7> 6.1.1
09:59:18  <frosch123> what distro?
09:59:23  <Milek7> arch
09:59:31  <frosch123> ok, thanks :)
09:59:36  <frosch123> i'll blame the suse guys then
10:04:31  <Milek7> vehiclelist.cpp:26
10:04:33  <Milek7> assert(c             < (1 <<  4));
10:05:00  <Milek7> strange
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10:06:19  <Milek7> ok, error is somewhere else
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10:14:12  <Milek7> asserts are enabled by default or some special configure option is needed?
10:20:36  <frosch123> i always do --enable-debug=3
10:20:53  <frosch123> but the output will tell you whether assertions are enabled or not
10:24:05  <Milek7> where?
10:24:49  <frosch123> "checking assert... enabled"
10:26:06  <Wolf01> which one is better? I like more the arrange15 one even if it takes more space
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10:26:27  <Milek7> frosch123:
10:26:28  <Milek7> ./configure --enable-debug=3 | grep assert
10:26:28  <Milek7> checking assert... disabled
10:28:44  <frosch123> no idea why it would be different for you
10:36:33  <andythenorth> Wolf01: got any screenshots? o_O
10:36:47  <Wolf01> for?
10:37:49  <andythenorth> toolbar arrangement
10:37:57  <Wolf01> nah, just refactoring trunk
10:38:10  <Wolf01> preparing soil for heavy patching
10:38:21  <andythenorth> arrange15 is ‘correct’ to my eyes
10:38:28  <andythenorth> depends which languages you’re used to I think
10:38:42  <Wolf01> I'm used to think in 80 chars soft-wrap
10:38:43  <andythenorth> vertical lists are easier to scan
10:38:49  <andythenorth> demonstrably
10:39:00  <andythenorth> optimising space is wrong, I have scroll
10:39:05  <andythenorth> optimise readability :)
10:39:38  <Wolf01> the arrange14 is like the original one, with aligned widgets
10:39:43  <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean "screensize grows faster than code is being refactored"
10:40:15  <andythenorth> probably :)
10:40:45  <frosch123> poor notebook users :p
10:43:07  * andythenorth has had same screen size for 10 years
10:44:11  <Wolf01> the main problem here is what do you want to preserve: widget alignment (to visually see if both toolbars match the length) or just readability, I'll go for the second
10:46:08  <Wolf01> the "top" toolbar should match the length of the arrangement (buttons will shift if it doesn't match the length), I don't know what could happen if the bottom one doesn't
10:47:24  <andythenorth> I’d write a guard for something like that
10:52:25  <Wolf01> sure
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10:58:30  <andythenorth> RV sound effects
10:58:31  <andythenorth>
10:58:35  <andythenorth> which ones should I use?
10:58:59  <andythenorth> I have buses, coaches, mail vans, freight trucks, pax trams, freight trams
11:00:30  <frosch123> randomise the SOUND_COMEDY_CAR_xxx
11:01:00  <andythenorth> :P
11:05:44  <Wolf01> nice behaviour, if I add buttons, the overflowing ones won't be printed, if I remove buttons it prints a spacer and then a pause button on the right
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11:06:16  <andythenorth> SOUND_CAR_HORN for trams
11:06:19  <andythenorth> SOUND_CAR_HORN_2 for pax trams :P
11:06:27  <andythenorth> important that I share my thoughts here, eh?
11:06:51  <Wolf01> :)
11:07:00  <andythenorth> whistle for steam trams
11:07:00  <frosch123> i don't mind, i play all games muted
11:07:04  <andythenorth> me too
11:07:15  <frosch123> except that you cannot mute factorios startup sound :/
11:07:16  <andythenorth> because crossing bells
11:07:29  <frosch123> it works fine with trance or techno, but is annoying with metal
11:10:20  <Milek7> just unplug speakers :P
11:10:27  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27616 trunk/config.lib (2016-07-17 13:10:21 +0200 )
11:10:28  <DorpsGek> -Codechange [FS#6487]: [Build] Change the GCC version detection so that it works with two-digit and truncated versions.
11:12:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i like game sounds, just if it gets too repetetive, like the ottd title screen it gets too much
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11:27:47  <Milek7> gdb is broken
11:29:30  <Wolf01> patch done, I saved it in git format, I hope it works
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11:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause> you know i hate when two people have the same colour? now they also have the same length and same structure...
11:35:25  <Wolf01> for me you all have the same colour :|
11:37:02  <Wolf01> the only exception are long time friends for who I set a particular nick colour
11:37:45  <andythenorth> “There ought to be a setting for [x]” is an internet law similar to Godwin
11:37:50  <andythenorth> needs a name
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11:51:42  <frosch123> "feature creap" ?
11:54:26  <Milek7> Wcls *AllocateWindowDescFront(WindowDesc *desc, int window_number, bool return_existing = false)
11:54:31  <Milek7> in window_gui.h
11:54:47  <Milek7> it should be Wcls *AllocateWindowDescFront(WindowDesc *desc, WindowNumber window_number, bool return_existing = false)
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12:00:39  <Alberth> there are about 110 windows rather than 5
12:00:54  <andythenorth> SOUND_FACTORY_WHISTLE for steam trams eh?
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12:01:28  <Milek7> Alberth: hm?
12:01:33  <Alberth> producing sound from pax :p
12:02:51  <Alberth> Milek7: that enum lists about 5 window classes, so ok, 15 windows, there are close to 10 times that amount
12:03:10  <Milek7> what enum?
12:03:13  <Alberth> ie 90% isn't covered by the enum
12:03:21  <Alberth> WindowNumber
12:03:25  <Milek7> this is typedef
12:03:33  <Milek7> to int32
12:03:59  <Alberth> ah, right, wrong line, I see, sorry
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12:09:08  <andythenorth> Road Hog compile got slow :(
12:09:19  <andythenorth> switch count has grown rapidly
12:09:22  <andythenorth> bloody switches
12:14:04  <argoneus> good morning train friends
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12:27:20  <andythenorth> Road Hog 1k gets nearer
12:27:45  <andythenorth> it’s “interesting” making an RV set when most of this channel is ‘meh’ about RVs :D
12:29:23  <frosch123> is it different for train and industry sets?
12:29:30  <V453000> one day I shall make a RV set and show you how it's done :P
12:32:02  <andythenorth> it’s different for industry sets
12:32:05  <andythenorth> trains, dunno
12:32:46  <andythenorth> V453000 easy, just two vehicles: pax, and universal freight vehicle
12:33:01  <V453000> exactly? :D
12:33:46  <andythenorth> but trams
12:34:00  <andythenorth> also, parenting
12:34:02  <andythenorth> biab
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12:40:09  * Wolf01 will be back later or directly tomorrow
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12:40:19  <Samu> test
12:40:21  <Wolf01> 'night
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12:40:32  <Samu> i think i'm lagging today
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12:56:31  <andythenorth>
13:00:17  <frosch123> evil pantograph making vehicles asymmetric :)
13:00:33  <andythenorth> and headlight
13:01:41  <frosch123> is the roof flat or round?
13:02:15  <andythenorth> yes
13:02:16  <andythenorth> either
13:02:38  <andythenorth> is small pixels :)
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13:23:39  <_dp_> hi! does anyone know a good way to pass some data from gs to client patch that unmodded clients will just silently ignore?
13:24:01  <_dp_> like mb somehow doing an invisible string, or putting it in inaccessible place
13:34:28  <_dp_> oh, it seems it only complains about too many parameters for SRINGx, not initial strings
13:34:32  <_dp_> guess that will do
13:34:42  <Milek7> add new function
13:35:01  <Milek7> and catch exception in unpatched clients?
13:36:01  <_dp_> Milek7, I mean gs is on server, and clients connect to it
13:37:57  <Milek7> ah, so i don't know
13:38:16  <Milek7> maybe patched clients can send magic packet after connecting
13:38:42  <Milek7> and server would know that it can send special packets to that client
13:38:56  <_dp_> Milek7, need patched server for that
13:39:07  <Milek7> yes
13:39:20  <Milek7> you need patched client anyway, so why not server?
13:39:39  <_dp_> Milek7, with patched server it's easier, can just add stuff to savegame, but need solution for any server
13:39:54  <_dp_> well, long story, reasons xD
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13:48:12  <Milek7> hm
13:48:34  <Milek7> 60 companies would be sufficient?
13:49:12  <Alberth> I think 15 is
13:49:26  <Milek7> but maybe if i'm anyway changing that, so maybe 250
13:49:29  <Milek7> Alberth: no
13:50:48  <_dp_> how many times does company appear in map array?
13:51:02  <_dp_> coz even if you have infinite memory it still adds to savegame size
13:51:32  <Alberth> Milek7: considered other limits, like total #vehicles that runs, and the cpu power that everybody needs
13:51:43  <Alberth> ?
13:52:23  <_dp_> Alberth, even 15 is too much if you consider that :p
13:53:04  <Alberth> indeed
13:53:13  <Milek7> not all players on servers have 100 trains
13:53:28  <Milek7> many buys 1 train and go away
13:53:29  <Alberth> 60*100 = 6000
13:53:54  <Milek7> why would create fancy autoremove algorithms, when it is possible to have more companies?
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13:54:38  <Milek7> _dp_: you mean in tile?
13:54:53  <_dp_> Milek7, yep
13:54:58  <Alberth> what makes you think that everybody has enough cpu power to run such a map at the proper speed?
13:55:15  <Milek7> there is plenty of space to include extra company bits
13:55:30  <Milek7> eg. bit 7 in m1
13:55:40  <Milek7> and bit 0, 1 and m6
13:55:57  <_dp_> Milek7, that doesn't sound like plenty :p
13:56:05  <Milek7> and for roads where two owners are stored is also m4
13:56:47  <Milek7> _dp_: there is already 5 bits for companies in most tiles
13:56:57  <Milek7> so extra 3 bits and you have whole byte
13:58:48  <_dp_> Milek7, ok, I guess it won't add much to savegame then, at least compared to damn trees xD
14:02:45  <Wormnest> I get AIOrder.ERR_ORDER_TOO_MANY Is this a global or per company maximum number of orders and not per vehicle?
14:09:14  <Milek7> why there are functions in .h files?
14:09:28  <Milek7> .h should be only header, not code
14:12:17  <frosch123> Wormnest: there is a limit per vehicle
14:12:24  <frosch123> and a limit for the game
14:13:19  <frosch123> Wormnest: human reach the "game limit" when not using shared orders
14:13:43  <Wormnest> Thanks frosch123. I guess nonocab with 5000 ships and lots of buoys is reaching the game limit
14:14:12  <frosch123> 254 per vehicle, 64000 total
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14:15:25  <Wormnest> that would be 12 orders per vehicle for 5000 ships which is indeed not enough
14:15:43  <frosch123> teach it to share orders :)
14:15:44  <Wormnest> That means I need to give higher priority to implementng shared orders
14:16:00  <Wormnest> yep
14:16:14  <Wormnest> thanks
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15:31:11  <Milek7> hm
15:31:24  <Milek7> gcc don't have types wider than 128 bits
15:32:05  <Milek7> but i need bitmask for 240 companies
15:35:11  <_dp_> looks like someone made a bot to spam servers with companies...
15:35:31  <Milek7> _dp_: hm?
15:35:43  <_dp_> Milek7, check n-ice servers with 15+ clients
15:36:00  <_dp_> just banned him out of our servers too
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15:44:38  <Milek7> there is some function for getting/setting tunnel/bridge owner?
15:46:08  <Milek7> ok, Get/SetRoadOwner is propably used
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15:56:26  <andythenorth> trams
15:56:52  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: some time ago we discussed optimum tram lengths, and concluded >= 16/8
15:57:03  <andythenorth> since then I made a lot of trams shorter, for visual reasons
15:57:23  <andythenorth> >= 16/8 length is more important than visual appearance?
15:57:39  <andythenorth> ‘yes’ would be ok, just need to be sure the change has a rationale
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16:08:28  <Yho> A TextEffect is a small window with text used for errors, right ?
16:08:46  <frosch123> [17:32] <Milek7> but i need bitmask for 240 companies <- std::bitset<MAX_COMPANIES>
16:09:15  <frosch123> Yho: no, it's the cost/income animation
16:09:30  <frosch123> the raising numbers when you build stuff
16:09:37  <frosch123> or also the loading indicators of vehicles in stations
16:09:49  <Yho> Ah yes it makes sense too
16:12:14  <andythenorth> well
16:12:32  <andythenorth> for trucks, the length stays ~same across generations
16:12:36  <andythenorth> not always but often
16:12:38  * andythenorth doing same for trams
16:18:40  <frosch123> trucks follow the laws for maximum truck length, right?
16:19:02  <frosch123> just like ships follow the rule of "either fit through panama canal, or be as big as possible"
16:20:55  <andythenorth> well there was lots of rationale
16:21:06  <andythenorth> but mostly it just looks good in buy menu to keep them same length
16:21:22  <andythenorth> not all types do it, which seems to provide nice variety
16:22:31  <andythenorth> tram capacity progression is a bit steep
16:22:46  <andythenorth> 48t->72t->96t
16:23:41  <andythenorth> 48->60->72?
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16:32:47  <andythenorth> or even 36->48->72?
16:34:10  <V453000> 6 6 6
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16:37:29  <frosch123> andythenorth: make them useful :)
16:37:52  <frosch123> btw. if you use multiple of 12 for capacity, you should definitely use barrels :p
16:38:31  <frosch123> 36 -> 60 -> 144
16:38:53  <frosch123> gross tram
16:41:19  <andythenorth> anything over 20t is useful imho
16:41:25  <andythenorth> 30t-40t are sweet spots
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16:43:54  <Yho> I think I have just found an error in a comment : vehicle_gui.cpp:2375. It says "callback method after the cloning of a vechicle" while it seems to be for start-stop callback.
16:44:17  <Yho> It's not very important but it can confuse the reader
16:44:34  <andythenorth> ‘wrong comments’ is definitely a thing in OTTD source :)
16:44:42  <andythenorth> not many, but occasionally
16:44:53  <andythenorth> based on what I’ve seen
16:55:06  <andythenorth> Yho: provide a patch? o_O
16:56:46  <Yho> andythenorth: I could. I had hoped a developpr would just correct it directly but they are not here
17:15:08  <MonkeyDrone> does there exist an excel sheet that lists all comparison data on all the engines?
17:15:19  <MonkeyDrone> i need to educate myself on all of em :D
17:19:32  <Alberth> just default set?
17:19:56  <Alberth>  , although not a spread sheet
17:20:36  <Alberth> I am not sure how useful it is, you need to play the game throughout the ages anyway, just find the engine as you play?
17:20:48  <Alberth> also, stats are randomized afaik
17:21:30  <andythenorth> only intro date
17:21:40  * andythenorth has considered randomised stats before :P
17:22:15  <Alberth> anything wrong with that?
17:22:32  <andythenorth> with random map, random industry gen, and random GS
17:22:40  <andythenorth> it was one more thing to make a game unplayable :)
17:24:08  <Alberth> I guess you need to have at least 2-3 engines at all times, so you can avoid the bad one
17:25:05  <andythenorth> it was one way to have lots of engines, whilst not having one always be the most boss
17:25:13  <andythenorth> fewer engines is a better solution :)
17:25:51  <Alberth> I was playing mostly default, but in 2000, with train length 7, and monorail
17:26:05  <Alberth> 7 is too long, you don't get enough traffic :p
17:26:15  <andythenorth> 5 seems to be winning
17:26:25  <andythenorth> I boringly build everything 5 now :|
17:26:30  <andythenorth> very boring player
17:27:28  <Alberth> monorail is very expensive, it took a lot of years before I had comfortably enough money
17:28:01  <Alberth> maybe also due to 7 length though
17:33:44  <andythenorth> visually plausible?
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17:36:28  <Alberth> 1 vs 2 is a bit weird, isn't it?
17:37:04  <andythenorth> maybe
17:37:08  <andythenorth> what’s weird about it?
17:37:10  <Alberth> the other way around seems more likely, but the cargo wagons are equal
17:37:28  <Alberth> weird is equal cargo wagons, but more tonnes
17:37:52  <andythenorth> I might make the tanks longer on 2
17:37:58  <andythenorth> or bigger
17:38:13  <andythenorth> it’s cheap copy-paste :D
17:39:00  <Alberth> 2 engines vs 1 engine is nice, and makes it easily reconizable
17:39:22  <andythenorth> I think it’s better to not reuse the wagon from earlier version
17:39:43  <Alberth> seems like it, or you must make a longer chain
17:40:09  <Alberth> the first one shorter :p
17:40:11  <andythenorth> yeah, longer I’m trying to avoid
17:40:20  <andythenorth> it’s nice to have them all same 16/8 length
17:40:57  <Alberth> yep, less mess when upgrading
17:45:40  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27617 trunk/src/lang/latvian.txt (2016-07-17 19:45:36 +0200 )
17:45:41  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:42  <DorpsGek> latvian: 6 changes by Parastais
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18:06:27  <MonkeyDronez> ok guys, question
18:06:48  <MonkeyDronez> I have a train length of 15 units. It has 3x engines and the rest is cargo.
18:07:26  <V453000> answer is yes
18:08:26  <MonkeyDronez> i just got the new engine unlocked but it's a dual engine, so i would like to replace the 3x engines with 2x of the twin engine
18:08:39  <MonkeyDronez> there has to be an easy way to do this :P
18:08:45  <V453000> of course
18:08:49  <V453000> there isn't :>
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18:09:54  <V453000> that's why you use NUTS :P
18:10:46  <Alkel_U3> there's a patch for template-based replacements so that you can be more specific about how the resulting consist looks. It's in JGR's patchpack and I think thatgot there originally from some other pack
18:12:38  <Sylf> yo V
18:12:39  <Alkel_U3> other than that... I hope you like tedious micromanagement :P
18:12:48  <V453000> hi Sylf :) how are you?
18:12:54  <Sylf> goodgood
18:12:57  <Sylf> you?
18:13:00  <V453000> great
18:13:06  <V453000> had a vacation in the last week
18:13:16  <Sylf> cool
18:13:21  <V453000> finalized concept of my new train set, and set up technical pipeline
18:13:24  <V453000> now I just need to shit models
18:13:32  <Sylf> you're taking vacation, leaving the busy factorio team behind?
18:13:53  <V453000> yeah, had no warm water in our flat so we kind of had to go elsewhere for the week
18:14:16  <Sylf> Awesome  XD
18:14:48  <Sylf> But the team quickly made 9 patch releases, so someone's been busy
18:15:02  <V453000> I know :) programmers have a lot of bug work now
18:15:12  <V453000> gfx is busy, but not breaking
18:15:49  <V453000> I played factorio quite a bit during June to test things, it made me not really want to play now :D
18:16:07  <V453000> sooooo we might have a new train set :> better than ever I dare say
18:29:04  <MonkeyDronez> ah sorry, got busy
18:29:10  <MonkeyDronez> tedious micromanagement it is, hehe
18:30:08  <MonkeyDronez> what about BRIX
18:30:10  <MonkeyDronez> brixxxxxxxxx
18:30:19  <MonkeyDronez> hehe, yes, you know what i mean when i say brixxx
18:31:04  <MonkeyDronez> hmmm, i have 41 trains i need to refit , the whole engine replacement stuff
18:31:17  <MonkeyDronez> fooooooooooooook it
18:31:49  <andythenorth> train length 5, never double head
18:31:58  <andythenorth> ^ all your auto-replace problems solved
18:32:06  <MonkeyDronez> lol
18:32:26  <MonkeyDronez> well length 15, 3 engines rolling it. the nightmare is real
18:33:16  <MonkeyDronez> damn bubbleheads is doing it automatically, he's in my team, i shall earn the ways!
18:34:46  <MonkeyDronez> there is an option in auto replace called 'Car Removal', it keeps the length!
18:34:48  <MonkeyDronez> HAH!
18:34:55  <andythenorth> yup
18:35:25  <Alkel_U3> yeah, but it doesn't help with the engines
18:40:49  <MonkeyDronez> it's cool
18:40:49  <MonkeyDronez> i have 5 engines on the trains instead of 4
18:40:49  <MonkeyDronez> i can live with that ;p
18:40:49  <MonkeyDronez> it is a very long train :P
18:41:04  <MonkeyDronez> these 41 trains enter and exit two stations, with 3 lines going both ways and it's always full. i love it
18:41:32  <MonkeyDronez>
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18:45:53  <andythenorth> large flat maps :P
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18:53:53  <Milek7> hm
18:54:01  <Milek7> if i increase max_companies
18:54:26  <Milek7> then it cannot load saves created in unmodified versions
18:55:04  <Milek7> "Invalid chunk size"
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19:02:42  <andythenorth>
19:02:44  <andythenorth> o_O
19:02:57  <andythenorth> engine on no.3 is ugly, will fix that
19:05:00  <V453000> yeah 3 needs some more love
19:05:04  <V453000> other than that it's fabulous af
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19:05:29  <Milek7> ok, need some addational SLE_CONDARR
19:07:55  <Samu> my internet today is doing bad
19:11:02  <andythenorth> bbl
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19:40:20  <Samu> nice bug, blizzard:!Ah9vX-Q9n7Ijih8jch26nYNX1MqT
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19:54:44  <NGC3982> woops
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19:58:30  <NekoMaster> Hello everybody :)
20:00:06  *** fjb_ [] has joined #openttd
20:00:09  <NekoMaster> Anyone around to help me with a problem?
20:00:35  <Supercheese> Let's see, I have a crossbow and a flamethrower handy, I should be able to handle it ;)
20:01:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i have vassals with an army size of 1 million men, does that help?
20:01:35  <NekoMaster> I'm trying to compile NML code with the make command after setting up all the tools and I get this in my command LIne
20:01:43  <NekoMaster> -> /bin/bash: cc: command not found Error 127
20:01:51  <NekoMaster> * make: *** [NARS_ADDON.nml] Error 127
20:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause> you did not install a c compiler
20:02:09  <Eddi|zuHause> or it's not in your $PATH
20:04:03  <NekoMaster> I did everything I was told to on this page :
20:04:32  <Milek7> case 0xAE: return this->t->have_ratings;
20:04:40  <Milek7> why newgrf can read these variables?
20:05:16  <NekoMaster> What package is for MinGW that handles Compiling C?
20:06:13  <Supercheese> gcc?
20:06:37  <Sylf> Nekomaster, are you running that under a DOS prompt?
20:07:11  <NekoMaster> I'm running it under Command Line in Windows 10
20:07:32  <Sylf> Take a read of Adding all programs to the PATH variable section of that setup page
20:07:53  <NekoMaster> I did and I have everything in my paths
20:08:18  <Sylf> also, you'll want to use mingw shell
20:08:34  <Sylf> mingw should have installed some bash or something in the start menu
20:09:05  <NekoMaster> i have bash, and its open, but I have no idea what I'm doing
20:09:57  <Sylf> In the bash is where you'll need to navigate to where the source code is, and run the make command
20:10:15  <Sylf> You can keep the windows 10 command prompt closed permanently
20:10:42  <NekoMaster> I dunno how to navigate in bash, cd doesnt seem to do anything
20:11:04  <Sylf> cd by itself returns you to the "home" directory
20:11:11  <Sylf> ls -l
20:11:16  <Sylf> is just like dir in command prompt
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20:12:38  <Sylf> to access your C: drive, for examlpe,
20:12:42  <Sylf> cd /c
20:12:43  <NekoMaster> Ok so I'm in the nars_addon folder where the pnml is
20:13:03  <NekoMaster> but when I do "make" it says no targets specified and no makefile found
20:13:14  <NekoMaster> this is the nars_addon folder I got from the nars_addon_source.tar
20:13:22  <Sylf> take a screenshot of the window, plz?
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20:13:55  <NekoMaster> Of which window? bash or my explorer window?
20:14:02  <Sylf> bash.
20:14:05  <NekoMaster> and where shall I post the picture?
20:14:10  <Sylf> Or copy/paste the output to
20:14:11  <NekoMaster> Send it via pm?
20:14:44  <Sylf> screenshots can go to
20:14:56  <Sylf> or any image posting services
20:16:28  <NekoMaster> I didn't think about imgur because I havent used it in for so long
20:17:05  <NekoMaster> Heres the screen shot of my bash window
20:17:05  <NekoMaster>
20:18:01  <Sylf> cd /d/GRFPROJECTS/NARS_ADDON
20:18:03  <Sylf> then make
20:18:30  <NekoMaster> ahh I see
20:18:43  <NekoMaster> though it would help if bash would show where I am like commandline does
20:19:02  <NekoMaster> and I get this in bash
20:19:02  <NekoMaster> [CPP] NARS_ADDON.nml
20:19:02  <NekoMaster> /bin/bash: cc: command not found
20:19:02  <NekoMaster> make: *** [NARS_ADDON.nml] Error 127
20:19:15  <Sylf> the letter ~ is actually your current location
20:19:26  <Sylf> ~ in unix-speaks means you're in your home directory
20:19:37  <Sylf> oh wait, nevermind
20:19:42  <Sylf> that bash prompt doesn't even show that
20:20:00  <NekoMaster> its been a while since I've used linux and terminal stuff
20:20:03  <Sylf> you can use
20:20:05  <Sylf> pwd
20:20:10  <Sylf> to show your current directory
20:20:43  <NekoMaster> anyways, I still get /bin/bash: cc: command not found
20:20:59  <Sylf> can you type gcc
20:21:24  <NekoMaster> gcc.exe :fatal error: no input files
20:21:28  <Sylf> ok good.
20:21:32  <NekoMaster> compilation terminated
20:22:16  <Sylf> On line 107 of Makefile, it has CC ?= cc
20:22:18  <Sylf> Change that to
20:22:22  <Sylf> CC ?= gcc
20:22:39  <NekoMaster> this is the makefile you made and posted though
20:22:45  <Sylf> yes
20:23:20  <NekoMaster> ok, I set cc ?= gcc
20:23:31  <Sylf> save the file, and you can try make again
20:24:36  <NekoMaster> Nope, still saying the same thing
20:24:54  <Sylf> another screenshot plz?
20:25:18  <NekoMaster> one moment
20:25:48  <NekoMaster>
20:27:29  <Sylf> how about
20:27:31  <Sylf> which gcc
20:27:40  <Sylf> (that's the command)
20:28:16  <NekoMaster> ok i did that and bash said "/usr/local/bin/gcc.exe"
20:28:55  <Sylf> this isn't really a proper way, but...
20:29:07  <Sylf> cp /usr/local/bin/gcc.exe /usr/local/bin/cc.exe
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20:29:34  <NekoMaster> did I mess something up while I was installing stuff?
20:29:45  <Sylf> I've no idea
20:29:53  <Sylf> I've never used MinGW myself
20:29:57  <NekoMaster> oh
20:30:00  <NekoMaster> what do you use?
20:30:07  <Sylf> I'm on Linux.
20:30:10  <NekoMaster> ahh
20:30:20  <NekoMaster> I would use linux but lately I find it kind of clunky
20:30:35  <NekoMaster> or at least hte environment that is
20:30:45  <NekoMaster> i miss the XFCE ofr Xubuntu 10.04
20:30:59  <NekoMaster> and nice, the thing finally compiled
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20:33:24  <NekoMaster> So I'm in game and I can see and use the FP45 that you coded
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20:34:17  <Sylf> I didn't code reliability information
20:34:33  <Sylf> it's probably using whatever the default value, or some random value
20:34:42  <NekoMaster> I'd just keep things at the default value or what ever
20:35:16  <Sylf> I also didn't take too much time adjusting TE or running/purchase cost
20:35:42  <Sylf> I still need to learn how to code B unit
20:35:42  <NekoMaster> and me, you, or we will set the reliability stuff as we go, based on real life data. for Example, the Bombardier H-616 (High Reliability-616) was actually very unreliabile
20:35:51  <NekoMaster> Yeah, there will be some B units
20:36:19  <NekoMaster> in the past I remember using GRF maker and b units where just replacing the sprites of adjacent engines of the same type
20:36:30  <Sylf> yes
20:36:38  <NekoMaster> So any extra Locomotvies, say a EMD F-unit that you connected it would replace the sprite with another one
20:36:56  <Sylf> I just need to learn how to do that in NML
20:37:01  <Sylf> shouldn't be too difficult
20:37:03  <NekoMaster> Though for now we'll just tackle regular single unit locomotives
20:37:12  <NekoMaster> I my self have to learn how to add locomotives period
20:37:29  <Sylf> any 8/8 length single unit loco should be basically a copy of FP45
20:38:03  <NekoMaster> Though the FP45 spirte is a bit off, sits a bit too low on the tracks
20:38:40  <NekoMaster>
20:38:54  <Sylf> We'll work through them, each direction at a time.  We can take the discussion to PM
20:39:06  <NekoMaster> PM on the forums or IRC PM?
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20:43:08  <Milek7> almost done
20:43:38  <NekoMaster> herpderp
20:44:11  <Milek7> only need to save/load/convert these new std::bitset
20:44:20  <Milek7> and fix multiplayer passwords
20:47:09  <Eddi|zuHause> so, youtube suggests me a video with a thumbnail that has two girls close to each other and the text "lesbian drama", how high are the chances that there's any lesbians in the video? :p
20:47:25  <NekoMaster> probably click bait
20:47:59  <Alkel_U3> best case it's never gonna give you up
20:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the problem about clickbait is that it works more often than it should.
20:49:22  <NekoMaster> you know I've never been rick rolled
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21:22:28  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm not sure if i've ever been rick rolled in the strict sense, but i have definitely clicked on a video expecting it to be never gonna give you up, and it was.
21:22:41  <NekoMaster> lol
21:22:51  <NekoMaster> I've listened to the song my self because I actually kinda like the music
21:23:06  <NekoMaster> but thats not a rick roll if you looked for his song
21:24:35  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it was this video: which at that time (1st april) was titled "an important message from..."
21:24:47  <Eddi|zuHause>
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21:46:02  <Wolf01> moin
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22:58:22  <Wolf01> 'night
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