Log for #openttd on 5th August 2016:
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03:04:17  <MonkeyDrone> Good morning folks o/
03:27:44  <ElleKitty> *hops onto MonkeyDrone*
03:30:37  * MonkeyDrone crushes to death. Too early in the morningggggggg xD
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03:35:47  <MonkeyDrone> didn't you sleep yet ElleKitty?
03:36:11  <ElleKitty> I didnt. I'm very sleepy -_-
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03:36:34  <ElleKitty> But this coal mine wont dig itself up
03:37:17  <MonkeyDrone> lol, let it goooooooooo
03:53:50  <MonkeyDrone> so hungryyyyyyyy
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04:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i wish these vassals would actually have an AI that can coordinate...
04:30:44  <MonkeyDrone> vassals, EU4?
05:05:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
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05:32:31  <MonkeyDrone> that is one sadistic brutal game.
05:32:50  <MonkeyDrone> my first game, started off as many regrets :D
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07:17:17  <Alkel_U3> man, fuck aquifers
07:17:29  <Alkel_U3> dordf can't dig underwater
07:17:35  <Alkel_U3> *dorfs
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07:43:55  <MonkeyDrone> stupid dwarves
07:44:04  <MonkeyDrone> stinky thick savages
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07:49:43  <roboboy> hello
07:51:03  <roboboy> can anyone provide me with assistance on building a win32 binary of OpenTTD under linux? I am using Ubuntu.
07:51:03  <MonkeyDrone> hello roboboy
07:51:58  <roboboy> I am playing with the new Windows Subsystem for Linux which runs Ubuntu as it's usermode Linux
07:52:49  <roboboy> I also want to eventually try building OpenTTD for DOS at a later stage
07:53:43  <MonkeyDrone> roboboy: why make it for dos?
07:54:02  <roboboy> to test the build system
07:54:32  <roboboy> Once I finish moving out of home, I intend on getting my DOS PC running again.
07:55:17  <MonkeyDrone> that's an interesting undertaking
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07:55:52  <roboboy> OpenTTD in the past has been set up to compile for DOS but it is rarely built for DOS. I intend on testing it every now and then. Plus TTD was originally a DOS game :)
07:56:46  <MonkeyDrone> roboboy: i was there for the original :P
07:57:02  <MonkeyDrone> good times ;D
07:57:24  <roboboy> I played TTD on a 98SE machine for many years.
07:57:56  <roboboy> I played the DOS version on 98SE with TTDPatch.
08:00:42  <roboboy> I am also looking at building TTDPaatch under WSL except it's svn server is down. I personally prefer TTDPatch as a player but we won't discuss that here :P
08:03:43  <MonkeyDrone> i dont even know what ttdpatch is :P
08:06:45  <roboboy> it is the program that revitalised TTD for the first time. It provides TTD many of the older enhancements in OpenTTD including the original specs for NewGRF's. It hasn't had any major updates since I think 2006? It is mostly written in assembler.
08:12:55  <roboboy> I once said the reason I don't like OpenTTD is the credits window. That is still the case however to me OpenTTD as a whole no longer feels like TTD for me, there are too many things I can't even put a finger on so I just say I won't argue and will leave it at that :P
08:16:15  <Alkel_U3> I agree, it has different feel. I can't name it, but it has something that OpenTTD doesn't.
08:23:15  <MonkeyDrone> old age and memoery recall :P
08:24:33  <roboboy> if I don't respond to my question about building OpenTTD, pm me an answer on TT-Forums please
08:25:38  <MonkeyDrone> goodluck mate
08:26:42  <roboboy> I should probably get an X server going on windows and try to run the Linux OpenTTD that way :P
08:29:48  <MonkeyDrone> lol, sounds like alot of work ;p
08:32:02  <roboboy> nah, just download an X server and run a linux command or two
08:32:31  <MonkeyDrone> just for the hell of it eh
08:32:35  <MonkeyDrone> trying out stuff and all
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08:47:41  <Alberth> moving graphics over the network eh? :)
08:48:28  <Alberth> will work, but euhm, very slow, most likely, with all the graphics that get modified every frame
08:50:16  <Alberth> but yeah, it's fun when you realize that the screen you're sitting behind, and the computer you work at, doesn't have to be the same
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08:54:03  <roboboy> it worked - yey
08:54:11  <Alberth> \o/
08:54:27  <V453000> sup puny humans
08:54:54  <roboboy> @logs
08:54:54  <DorpsGek> roboboy:
08:55:28  <Alberth> o/ V
08:56:12  <roboboy> Alberth: I think it's doing it via localhost.
08:56:40  <Alberth> hmm, not enough fun :p
08:56:48  <Alberth> but a lot faster in the connection :)
08:57:18  <roboboy> yeah.
08:57:59  <Alberth> running an MP game over localhost is probably better, performance-wise
08:58:33  <roboboy> hehe. That's not what I was doing.
08:59:04  <roboboy> I'm running Microsoft's new Windows Susbsystem for Linux which has no X server.
09:00:36  <roboboy> I built Linux OpenTTD from source under WSL and configured the environment for X and installed an X server on the same Windows 10 machine. I then launched OpenTTD from WSL's bash.
09:00:52  <Alberth> That's correct, the client with the screen runs the X server.  The connection gets forwarded to the remote system for connecting the clients
09:01:03  <V453000> idk, playing openttd with original TTD graphics keeps the spirit to me
09:01:25  <V453000> sure it's not exactly the same as 500 years ago but it's still similar
09:02:09  <roboboy> how would I go about building the Windows version of OpenTTD from linux?
09:02:55  <roboboy> my ultimate goal is to build the DOS version of OpenTTD :P
09:03:32  <V453000> ._.
09:03:35  <V453000> why? :D
09:07:57  <roboboy> to ensure it still builds. It was 16 years ago since I originally tested OpenTTD on DOS on real hardware.
09:08:26  <roboboy> actually it was 6 years ago but still
09:09:21  <Alberth> install a cross compiler
09:09:53  <Alberth> probably mingw or something, ie a windows c++ compiler
09:14:54  <roboboy> I presume I want to install the 32bit version of Mingw?
09:17:10  <roboboy> actually scratch that
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09:29:22  <roboboy> Ah, so I have mingw32 installed. Now to figure out how to build it.
09:34:06  <Alberth> that's the easy part, just specify the compiler that you want to use
09:34:25  <Alberth> you probably also have to specify all the libraries that it wants
09:34:45  <Alberth> ie as option to ./configure
09:35:05  <roboboy> where can I find options to ./configure?
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09:38:24  <Alberth> ./configure --help   ?
09:38:42  <Alberth> long time ago that I tried that :p
09:39:13  <Alberth> you may want to write a shell script with the call, unless you like typing long command lines a zillion times
09:47:36  <MonkeyDrone> hardcore nerding going on in here :D
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09:56:02  <Samu> hhi
10:00:32  <roboboy> well I am going to try something else for a moment
10:00:36  <Alberth> o/
10:01:04  <roboboy> I'm installing the 64 bit version of mingw as well
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10:12:44  <Wolf01> o/
10:13:33  <Samu> wmdot duplicating ships:
10:15:32  <Samu> can't direct link images anymore
10:15:42  <Samu> imgur, you're dead to me
10:15:59  <Wolf01> Use onedrive
10:16:46  <ST2>
10:19:37  <Samu> nice ty
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10:22:46  <Samu>
10:22:49  <Samu> reported
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10:24:31  <Samu> all those white dots in the mini-map are ships traveling to nardham oilfield, they have to cross the map
10:24:55  <Samu> it's a 1024x1024 map, takes them 2 years to reach destination
10:26:42  <Samu> on the other hand, yapf is the pathfinder in that test, nice that the ships don't get lost
10:26:49  <Samu> yapf is good
10:28:00  <Alberth> Yeah, I wondered about the white dots too :)
10:28:05  <Alberth> lots of ships :p
10:28:37  <roboboy> hm, can't seem to figure out ./configure's requirements
10:33:14  <roboboy> hm, just figured it out
10:33:27  <roboboy> now I need to get windres working
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10:37:20  <Samu> 2042, 2019
10:38:12  <Samu> lol amd driver update: cant locate folder
10:39:17  <Samu> failed to install AMD Settings Branding - whatever that is
10:40:01  <Alberth> doesn't sound very good :p
10:43:32  <Samu> oh it's just logos, images, links to updater... nothing "important"
10:44:28  <Alberth> that would be "branding" indeed :)
10:45:04  <Alberth> apparently AMD thinks it's sufficiently important to pollute your computer with it :p
10:45:15  <roboboy> hmm, this is annoying
10:45:51  <roboboy> my ./configure is the following
10:46:14  <roboboy> ./configure CXX=i686-w64-mingw32-g++ CC=i686-w64-mingw32-gcc WINDRES=amd64-mingw32msvc-windres --os=MINGW
10:47:40  <Samu> heroes of the storm daily: win 3 games - hardest daily goal :(
10:47:46  <Alberth> I'd expect the option before the parameters
10:47:58  <roboboy> hm, that may not be the right arguments anyway
10:47:59  <Alberth> ./configure --os=MINGW ....
10:48:03  <Samu> i hope today is not a loss streak day
10:48:55  <Alberth> parameters get picked up by configure?
10:48:55  <Samu> blizzard matchmaking system is still evil
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10:50:24  <Samu> sometimes i go on to 12 losses in a row... :(
10:50:29  <Samu> before a win
10:52:18  <Alberth> I don't even understand what "blizzard matchmaking" means tbh (and I likely don't even want to know)
10:52:52  <roboboy> ./configure --help says it can take CXX, CC and WINDRES as paramaters and it finds CC and CXX but not WINDRES
10:56:19  <Alberth> it says "environment variables", which are not parameters
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10:56:55  <Alberth> CXX=i686-w64-mingw32-g++ CC=i686-w64-mingw32-gcc WINDRES=amd64-mingw32msvc-windres  ./configure --os=MINGW
10:57:51  <Alberth> try "export" in the shell, it should give you a dump of environment variables
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10:58:37  <Alberth> you can make new ones with "export FOO=some-bar"
10:59:10  <roboboy> aha
10:59:23  <Alberth> Above I used the trick that the shell can make them also for a single command, and forgets them after the command has been done
10:59:54  <Alberth> useful if you want to set some variables, but not permanently (for the current shell)
11:00:08  <Alberth> s/shell/session/
11:05:17  <roboboy>
11:05:42  <roboboy> i'm geting an error about lzo2.
11:08:59  <Alberth> You need a whole set of libraries, for the cross compiler too
11:10:35  <Alberth> you may want to check config.log
11:10:49  <roboboy> ah. Ok
11:13:15  <Alberth> you can also set a custom path for each library, like  --with-liblzo2=/some/where/here/
11:13:44  <Alberth> ie I doubt it found the correct zlib :p
11:14:45  <Alberth> this is why I mentioned using a shell script for the command line ;)
11:16:01  <Samu> rofl, medivh is balanced...
11:16:08  <Samu> thx blizzard for another troll hero
11:17:09  <Samu> can't even run away from him
11:17:33  <Samu> i'm sad
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11:17:51  <Samu> today is gonna be loss streak day
11:17:55  <Samu> i can sense it
11:20:26  <V453000> that's when you stop playing and do something else instead :)
11:20:32  <V453000> moar losses just leads to moar frustration
11:26:00  <roboboy> so I downloaded the lzo source and built it as per the MINGW instruction on the OpenTTD wiki. ./configure no longer gives me errors. However make does fail
11:26:03  <roboboy>
11:26:25  <roboboy> brb
11:28:14  <roboboy> back
11:32:21  <roboboy> atleast i'm making progress
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11:42:38  <Samu> 2nd loss, next
11:43:17  <roboboy> can someone point out what could be causing make to fail? Earlier I got it to fail on endian_check but can't get it to do that again.
11:43:31  <Samu> i want 362k gold, won't stop playing
11:43:37  <Samu> losses still give gold
11:44:51  <Samu> 2045, 2019, 6 years till wmdot yapf ships reach 2051
11:45:26  <Samu> or maybe... wmdot will bankrupt before that
11:45:34  <Samu> only 1.5M in the bank
11:46:27  <MonkeyDrone> Samu: what game are you playing?
11:46:34  <MonkeyDrone> overwatch?
11:46:42  <Samu> heroes of the storm
11:46:42  <MonkeyDrone> aka TF2 2.0
11:46:47  <MonkeyDrone> ah hots
11:46:54  <MonkeyDrone> what hero you going to buy with all that gold you are collecting?
11:47:04  <MonkeyDrone> running dat stimpack too? makes insane difference
11:48:14  <MonkeyDrone> i really wish they overhauled Uther, he used to be my top hero but his healing started being less and less effective as more heros came in
11:48:35  <MonkeyDrone> now he's hopeless in pugs
11:48:52  <MonkeyDrone> <3 morales
11:48:53  <Alberth> roboboy:  the compiled getoptdata.o is not in a file format that the linker understands. Perhaps you 'make'-ed it with another compiler? To be sure, clean up everything (make mrproper) and run configure and make again
11:49:20  <Alberth> it should compile everything again, including getoptdata
11:50:55  <roboboy> aha, got the endian_check error again
11:51:15  <MonkeyDrone> screw NUTS, dammit V453000. I try playing OTTD with vanilla trains now and they bloody stuck compared to NUTS.
11:51:28  <Alberth> If that doesn't fix it, you can try  VERBOSE=1 make     that dumps the commands that are actually being executed. Likely one of the compile commands uses the wrong path
11:51:28  <MonkeyDrone> V453000: successfully ruined classic ottd for me. gg.
11:51:36  <V453000> =D
11:51:53  <roboboy>
11:52:57  <Alberth> euhm, that's full with unreadable unicode characters
11:54:12  <roboboy> the whole paste or just line 4?
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11:54:17  <Alberth> ./objs/lang/endian_check    should then also fail with the same error
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11:55:36  <Alberth> Ah, right, you can't run a cross-compiled endian check of course :p
11:58:21  <roboboy> so ..
11:59:06  <Alberth> run the thing on the target platform, and set option  --endian=ENDIAN   in configure
11:59:33  <Alberth> at least, that sounds reasonable :p
12:00:05  <roboboy> so run endian_check in windows?
12:00:16  <Alberth> unless you know endianness at the target platform, you can skip the first step
12:00:33  <Alberth> *if you know, you can skip
12:01:36  <Alberth> well, it's 90+% sure it's little endian :p
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12:04:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never heard of a big endian windows
12:04:40  <Alberth> ok, 99.9% :p
12:06:13  <Samu> wow i win, yay
12:06:15  <Samu> lel
12:06:26  <MonkeyDrone> gg Samu
12:06:35  <MonkeyDrone> you play HL? or just normal
12:06:39  <Samu> i know, nobody cares
12:06:43  <Samu> i play quick match
12:06:47  <Samu> auto select
12:06:49  <MonkeyDrone> nice, that's where the fun is at
12:06:51  <Samu> f2p heroes
12:06:56  <MonkeyDrone> AS, heh,
12:06:58  <roboboy> yeah Windows is LE
12:07:01  <MonkeyDrone> i stick to my supports and tanks
12:07:41  <Samu> statistics say i'm best with valla
12:08:10  <Samu> azmodan and nazeebo i think
12:08:48  <MonkeyDrone> Valla, damn i suck with her.
12:08:51  <roboboy> so the command I am running is CXX=i686-w64-mingw32-g++ CC=i686-w64-mingw32-gcc WINDRES=i686-w64-mingw32-windress  ./configure --os=MINGW --endian=LE
12:09:18  <roboboy> it still fails on endian_check.exe
12:09:19  <MonkeyDrone> I am great with Uther, Murky, Sonya and Morales
12:09:48  <MonkeyDrone> <3 murky, but i heard they nerfed him latest patch, have not played him since hte new patch
12:12:13  <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't there a "cross compile" option that skips the endian check?
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12:21:39  <Wolf01> Diamond intersection..nice
12:23:37  <Alberth> ha, this is just for being cheaper than a proper crossing, I guess
12:25:13  <Samu> already in the negative
12:25:23  <Samu> wmdot will bankrupt right before 2051 :( that's sad
12:25:33  <MonkeyDrone> rip
12:27:41  <Eddi|zuHause> <MonkeyDrone> my first game, started off as many regrets :D <-- and they say that ottomans are one of the easiest countries
12:28:33  <MonkeyDrone> Eddi|zuHause: the problem wasn't the ottoman itself. I had conquered 2 of my neighbors. Then another super power came in and said it would screw me over if i started war with anyone else. I took it on, lost miserably xD
12:28:51  <MonkeyDrone> and ottoman is not easy , they have a lot of penatly on their tech advancement
12:29:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but they also have good leaders
12:29:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and all you need is vienna and tech 10 to westernize
12:30:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you likely get to miltech 4 before anyone else
12:30:25  <MonkeyDrone> i always focused on aggressive expansion, probably was the reason for my downfall most of the time
12:30:39  <Samu> MonkeyDrone: descending order: valla, azmodan, nazeebo, sylvanas, sgt. hammer, muradin, raynor, li li, e.t.c., malfurion, tychus, sonya, jaina, diablo, arthas, falstad, anub'arak, kael'thas, stitches, chen, johanna, tyrande, gazlowe, rehgar, uther, tassadar, thrall, tyrael, brightwing, kerrigan, nova, rexxar, leoric, kharazim, the butcher, illidan, lunara, lt.morales, zeratul, li-ming, tracer, xul, greymane, the lost vikings, medivh, artanis
12:30:43  <MonkeyDrone> i played as aggessively as i could with the ottomans, went full genghis on their butts
12:31:08  <roboboy> I couldn't find a "cross compile" option
12:31:12  <MonkeyDrone> got hotlogs Samu?
12:31:15  <Samu> dehaka
12:31:28  <MonkeyDrone> lost vikings at the bottom xD, i hate em :P
12:31:29  <Samu> no idea what's that, i keep hearing of that
12:31:42  <MonkeyDrone> how do you not know of hotslogs!?
12:31:47  <MonkeyDrone> how long have you been playing that game?
12:31:53  <Samu> 2 years
12:32:20  <MonkeyDrone>
12:32:30  <MonkeyDrone> 2 years...damn Samu, you should really look into hotslogs
12:32:31  <Samu> ok let me see
12:32:43  <MonkeyDrone>
12:32:45  <MonkeyDrone> my profile :P
12:33:03  <Samu> the site is either slow or is not opening for me
12:33:47  <Samu> most deaths as:
12:33:56  <Samu> nova, tassadar, tracer
12:34:03  <MonkeyDrone> lol
12:34:14  <MonkeyDrone> it collects your stats by having to upload your replays
12:34:26  <MonkeyDrone> so if you start now, it will start profiling you adn over time you can see how well you roll
12:34:36  <MonkeyDrone> Murky 72% win rate <3
12:35:10  <Samu> oops nevemind, those are not the most deaths as
12:35:29  <Samu> most deaths as: valla, li li, malfurion
12:35:44  <Samu> most wins as valla too
12:36:04  <Samu> well, auto selects valla most of the time when she's available...
12:36:42  <MonkeyDrone> cause no one else plays her anymore :p
12:37:01  <Samu> i wanted a death/win ratio
12:37:24  <Samu> most assists as: li li, malfurion, valla
12:37:48  <Samu> most kills as: valla, tychus, raynor
12:38:06  <MonkeyDrone> nice!
12:38:10  <MonkeyDrone> tychus <3
12:38:19  <MonkeyDrone> they nerfed him a bit but he was so epic before the nerf
12:38:19  <Samu> valla is in in every "most *something)
12:38:32  <MonkeyDrone> play her enough and she will be, duh :P
12:38:54  <Samu> Welcome to HOTS Logs! - it has opened!
12:39:22  <roboboy> I suspect I will have most of these problems again when I try to build for DOS :(
12:39:30  <Samu> inlcudes hero league matches? so no quick match?
12:39:34  <Samu> useless site
12:40:17  <Samu> hero bans? what the hell is a hero ban?
12:40:31  <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: have you actually checked the wiki page on cross compiling?
12:41:02  <MonkeyDrone> Samu: competitive play, you can ban heros in selections i think
12:41:39  <Samu> zagara with the most win % in those stats
12:41:57  <Samu> she's imba indeed
12:42:23  <MonkeyDrone> she got major upgrades last patch
12:42:44  <Samu> chromie is quite low...
12:42:48  <Samu> that's unexpected
12:43:14  <Samu> she's so annoying, 1 hit kills
12:43:22  <Samu> chrono rip
12:43:35  <Samu> blah whatever she uses that teles me back into death
12:43:50  <MonkeyDrone> lol but Chronie needs good skills at knowing where your enemy will be
12:43:57  <MonkeyDrone> i bought her, tried playing, i suck with her
12:44:15  <Samu> medivh in last place
12:44:21  <MonkeyDrone> bought tracer also <3 she's freakin brutal in the right hands
12:44:21  <Samu> i dont trust these statistics
12:44:35  <Samu> medivh, super annoying
12:44:36  <MonkeyDrone> these statistics onhotlogs are only calculated from replays uploaded by people
12:44:55  <MonkeyDrone> so more people upload their replays, (which is uploaded automatically) each is like 250KB
12:45:01  <MonkeyDrone> the hotslogs desktop app takes care of it
12:45:10  <roboboy> Eddi|zuHause: No. I didn't spot it under Category:Compiling OpenTTD
12:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: hm. i thought i saw it there some years ago
12:46:13  <Samu> azmodan as the worst siege? they gottta be kiding me
12:46:26  <Samu> everytime i see azmodan, i know forts are gone
12:47:08  <MonkeyDrone> a lot of people can't play Azmo
12:47:13  <MonkeyDrone> i've seen so many bad azmos
12:47:15  <roboboy> I am looking at it now however
12:47:30  <MonkeyDrone> they don't know how to split push
12:47:53  <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: while at it, you might add it to the category ;)
12:48:54  <Samu> wmdot is still surviving
12:49:18  <Samu> 4 more years till 2051, i doubt he'll make it
12:55:14  <Rubidium> roboboy: have you tried ./configure --host=i686-w64-mingw32 ?
13:01:22  <roboboy> no. Will try that next
13:03:22  <Rubidium> the biggest PITA of cross compiling are the "config" scripts of the libraries, e.g. pkg-config and so on will not magically give you the right library so you need to "customize" those scripts, or have only those scripts for the architecture you're building for, or have the scripts in a separate folder and mention them explicitly
13:03:58  <Rubidium> that's why it's best to disable all the libraries at first and see if you can get a binary built, and then start worrying about those libraries
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13:08:26  <roboboy> here is my latest attempt. It includes how I ran ./configure and the fact I ran make mrproper
13:10:37  <Rubidium> could you do a make VERBOSE:=1 (no need to do mrproper or configure)
13:17:15  <roboboy>
13:19:21  <Rubidium> okay, one of the libraries is messing with the build path. Try again with --without-png --without-icu --without-liblzma --without-lzo2 --without-zlib extra
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13:25:22  <roboboy>
13:26:49  <Rubidium> guess what... add --without-sdl --without-iconv
13:27:11  <Rubidium> (it --without-iconv exists)
13:27:25  <Rubidium> s/it/if/
13:32:35  <Samu> last year for wmdot, almost there, he's surviving with bankrupt warnings
13:36:02  <roboboy> it built and ran
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13:37:21  <Gja> Hej
13:43:01  <roboboy> thankyou Alberth and Rubidium . I presume to build for DOS, I will need to download and build djgpp myself?
13:45:05  <roboboy> anyway, I should go to bed soon. Am just installing wine on Ubuntu on WIndows to see if I can run the Windows version in that crazy environment.
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13:52:56  <Samu_> 2051!
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13:59:17  <Samu_> started nonocab v3 original/npf/yapf ships tests
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15:39:22  <Alberth> o/
15:41:24  <supermop> yo
15:50:41  <frosch123> hoi
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16:38:01  <Rubidium> moi
16:45:34  <Samu> heh, running hots + 3 servers ottd + 3 spectators ottd uses 6.8 GB RAM
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16:57:21  <Samu> tyrande is the worst hero possible
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17:03:04  <ElleKitty> Hey V453000
17:03:14  <ElleKitty> Whenever you see this, let me know
17:07:25  <Samu> who was the hots guy?
17:07:34  <Samu> tyrande is good at what?
17:08:09  <Samu> can't kill, can't lane, can't run, can't heal, ...
17:08:57  <Samu> dies in 1 shot from nova, great hero...
17:09:17  <Samu> worst hero i played so far
17:10:36  <Samu> and i'm tyrande again...
17:10:42  <Samu> another loss coming
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17:21:48  <andythenorth> o/
17:22:42  <frosch123> even more cats
17:22:50  <frosch123> at least 3
17:28:11  <Wolf01> o/
17:28:23  <Wolf01> Just finished the Porsche, with some mods
17:29:10  <Wolf01> btw, got to go
17:31:32  <andythenorth> hmm
17:31:43  <andythenorth> reloading newgrfs
17:32:05  <andythenorth> allocate keys to each newgrf dev?
17:32:06  <andythenorth> hash them
17:32:14  <andythenorth> only enable it for known hashes?
17:32:27  <andythenorth> that raises the bar to someone who can at least find or generate a reverse hash table
17:32:44  <andythenorth> and if *your* newgrf developer key leaks publicly, you lose all rights ever
17:32:59  <andythenorth> that’s a good engineering solution to social problem eh?
17:43:26  <frosch123> self-sign your newgrfs? :p
17:43:39  <frosch123> only reload newgrf if you have the private key for it?
17:44:31  <andythenorth> authenticate with a central server?
17:44:37  <andythenorth> €1 per reload?
17:44:40  <andythenorth> paid to a pool
17:44:47  <andythenorth> all newgrf developers are in the pool?
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17:45:35  <frosch123> what is a newgrf developer?
17:45:48  <Alberth> andy :p
17:45:59  <frosch123> do you need to purchase a nml license?
17:46:27  <frosch123> hmm, we could just rename the "reloadnewgrfs" command to "andy"
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17:48:15  <andythenorth> cat
17:48:24  <andythenorth> also V453000
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17:52:33  <Samu> next year gpu codenames: vega, volta
17:55:59  <Samu> it's over for AMD
17:56:19  <Samu> some benchmarks show a more than 100% more performance than the best radeon
17:56:38  <andythenorth> this is about as on-topic as Lego :)
17:56:50  <andythenorth> the only thing new graphics cards do for OpenTTD is make it worse
17:56:54  <Alberth> lego is perhaps more on-topic :)
17:56:56  <glx> there's a topic ?
17:57:07  <andythenorth> OpenTTD graphic performance has progressively diminished over time
17:58:03  <Alberth> could be useful to consider what newgrf features could be dropped :p
17:58:18  <Alberth> or maybe, must be dropped
17:58:52  <andythenorth> 8 bit?
17:58:58  <andythenorth> palette animation
17:59:08  <andythenorth> UI zoom?
17:59:54  <Alberth> the kinds where newgrf decides which sprite to draw are worse, afaik
18:00:20  <Alberth> but that's basically all newgrf :(
18:02:34  <andythenorth> it’s the palette animation that kills my game :)
18:02:49  <andythenorth> if I enable it, I can literally see each frame on things like payment animation
18:03:24  <andythenorth> also having multiple viewports on the map (a train window for example)
18:04:45  <frosch123> we need a separation from the game logic and the drawing :)
18:04:56  <Alberth> palette animation is not a problem in a gpu
18:05:16  <andythenorth> GPUs got worse I think :)
18:05:21  <andythenorth> or OS X removed something
18:05:57  <Alberth> Apple knows what's best for you, as always :)
18:06:23  <Alberth> tbh, I have absolutely no idea what gpu I have at my system, it could be worse :)
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18:37:05  <Samu> tyrande is really useless...
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19:09:29  <Samu> how does trans waste £2M on ship running costs
19:09:38  <Samu> refit?
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19:11:26  <Samu> ah no, my bad, ships are really costly
19:11:47  <Samu> trans is wasting money on ships that get lost, i forgot about that detail
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20:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause> did anyone attempt yet to implement palette animation as a gpu shader?
20:15:23  <Alberth> I don't see any problem with that
20:16:23  <Alberth> make a few textures for the various states, and sample them in the shader
20:16:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not really a "problem", just something that you need to put some effort into to make it work
20:18:18  <Alberth> It's not even close to the real problem, as far as I can see. I'd consider that as something that can be added later
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20:29:26  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how should ship sizes increase?  linear steps, or exponentially, or what?
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20:29:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd try quadratic
20:30:00  <andythenorth> I often find there isn’t a ‘right size’ ship at the small end
20:30:11  <andythenorth> and maybe too many choices at the higher end
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20:30:37  <andythenorth> thanks
20:30:46  <Eddi|zuHause> linear sounds wrong
20:31:05  <Eddi|zuHause> and exponential tends to be too much
20:31:30  <andythenorth> @calc 810/360
20:31:30  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 2.25
20:31:46  <andythenorth> @calc 360/140
20:31:46  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 2.57142857143
20:31:59  <andythenorth> @calc 140/65
20:31:59  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 2.15384615385
20:32:47  <andythenorth> current Squid values don’t work for my games
20:32:54  <andythenorth> not far off
20:37:42  <Eddi|zuHause> if you go exponential, pick a factor smaller than 2, like 1.5
20:38:07  <Eddi|zuHause> or sqrt(2)
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20:39:14  <Eddi|zuHause> or alternate between 1.5 and 1.33
20:41:44  <andythenorth> that makes sense
20:41:49  <andythenorth> @calc 65 * 1.5
20:41:49  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 97.5
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20:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause> for comparison: factor sqrt(2) is how european paper sizes work, and alternating 1.5 and 1.33 is how american paper sizes (some of them) work
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20:50:52  <Eddi|zuHause> in both cases, 2 steps are a factor of 2
20:53:01  <andythenorth> nice reference
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21:16:40  <andythenorth> @calc 1.41 * 65
21:16:40  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 91.65
21:16:49  <andythenorth> @calc 1.41 * 92
21:16:49  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 129.72
21:17:03  <andythenorth> @calc 1.41 * 130
21:17:03  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 183.3
21:17:12  <andythenorth> probably too closely spaced
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21:52:59  <Samu> @calc
21:52:59  <DorpsGek> Samu: calc <math expression>
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23:37:55  <Wolf01> 'night
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