Log for #openttd on 17th September 2016:
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00:01:16  <Wolf01> 'night
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06:14:57  <Alberth> moin
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08:00:39  <Wolf01> o/
08:00:59  <Wolf01> Damn PC... tried to fuck up ram again :(
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08:27:16  <Alberth> o/
08:27:35  <Alberth> it just loooves eating ram :)
08:34:56  <Wolf01> It can eat what it wants, but not my time and money
08:37:30  <Wolf01> I can't understand why the ram works at 2166MHz now, it should work at 2666 with default settings
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08:58:28  <Wolf01> Quak
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09:02:53  <frosch123> moi
09:22:53  <Alberth> hola
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09:48:12  <Wolf01> o/
10:02:02  <andythenorth> o/
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10:08:17  <Samu> hello
10:09:41  <Samu> I found a way to crash 1.6.1
10:10:45  <Samu> it needs OpenGFX+ Landscape 1.1.2 and a company bankrupting
10:13:15  <Samu> i see some servers using this grf
10:13:35  <Samu> they could be crashed t.t
10:13:47  <Samu> who's the crash expert?
10:15:01  <Samu> autoclean empty companies makes it even faster
10:22:54  <Wolf01> The crash expert!!!!!
10:25:07  <Wolf01> Alt+0 is a nice shortcut to try in OTTD
10:27:13  <Samu> im reporting the bug, sec
10:32:43  <Samu>
10:35:11  <Samu> a serious fault condition bla bla
10:36:34  <Samu> hah, i see
10:41:56  <Samu> there is another bug related to OpenGFX+ Landscape 1.1.2 but it's a price calculation error, doesn't result in a crash
10:42:26  <Samu> should I report?
10:44:28  <Samu> - Is it just me or is the site displaying weird?
10:47:05  <Samu> it says planetmaker is manager
10:49:12  <Samu> i'm not sure to whom I report this finding :(
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11:05:00  <Samu> reported:
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11:35:27  <andythenorth> such mail tramz
11:35:32  <andythenorth> I need a steam mail tram also
11:35:43  <andythenorth> but 10/8 is an awkard length :P
11:36:10  <andythenorth> 4/8 engine, 2 wagons at 3/8?
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12:57:26  <Samu> 		assert(index < this->first_unused);
12:57:54  <Samu> it crashes here when trying to draw face of a non-existant company
12:58:58  <Samu> manager face
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13:24:57  <Samu> what's beter in english
13:25:03  <Samu> water-based or water based
13:26:32  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL                    :Allow water-based infrastructure on canals owned by competitors: {STRING2}
13:26:42  <Samu> is this english good?
13:28:42  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL_HELPTEXT           :Allow construction of ship depots, docks and locks on canals owned by other companies. Also allow other water based infrastructures such as Oil Rigs and Objects to be funded or prospected on canals owned by other companies.
13:29:00  <Samu> water-based or water based?
13:29:06  <Samu> infrastructure or infrastructures?
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13:31:36  <drac_boy> hi
13:31:46  <Alberth> o/
13:32:32  <Alberth> I'd be tempted to use waterbased, even, but water-based should be fine
13:33:42  <Alberth> not sure about "infrastructure", it's usually something technical, so an industry would work
13:34:10  <Samu> but objects?
13:34:18  <Alberth> but an object might not really qualify as infra structure
13:34:26  <Alberth> eg a fishing boat or so
13:34:45  <Alberth> maybe "water-based structures" ?
13:34:55  <Samu> oki
13:34:55  <Alberth> (and I'd drop the examples)
13:37:24  <Alberth> not sure about fs#5612, I think there are more examples where newgrf costs are not entirely consistent
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13:38:09  <Alberth> if it's a bug the bug is in OpenGFX+landscape, I think
13:38:43  <Alberth> and not in openttd
13:43:18  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL                    :Allow water-based structures on canals owned by competitors: {STRING2} STR_CONFIG_SETTING_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL_HELPTEXT           :Allow construction of ship depots, docks and locks on canals owned by other companies. Also allow water-based industries such as Oil Rigs to be funded or prospected on canals owned by other companies.
13:43:27  <Samu> no mention to objects at all?
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13:45:41  <Samu> oki, i'm submitting the patch, think it's ready
13:49:08  <Alberth> Well, "funded or prospected" is something exclusively for industries
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13:49:29  <Alberth> hi hi
13:50:10  <Samu> i'll call it build on competitor canal v1 r27655
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13:57:02  <drac_boy> unrelated but heh .. about to order a few hundred dollars worth of bavarian/drg trains by next week here :-p
14:12:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "a few hundred dollars" would mean one model, if it's detailed enough...
14:16:55  <drac_boy> matter of fact one of the marklin steam locomotive lettered for bavaria is not surprisingly rather low price but still comes with a few extra glue-on details still? ;)
14:17:18  <drac_boy> most of the cost would be in wagons tho. especially with the coach at - each -_-
14:21:32  <drac_boy> on the other hand fleischmann wants to ask like 0+ for a P8 locomotive which is a bit odd given that fleischmann is not exactly one of your high end brands (especially compared to brawa etc)
14:21:42  <drac_boy> kinda a bit weird but what do I know of what they're trying to do
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14:42:06  <Alberth> oh, that's easy, the're trying to get maximal profit now and in the future
14:42:57  <drac_boy> alberth well they're in the wrong class for that tbh :)
14:43:20  <Alberth> they obviously disagree with you on that :p
14:43:46  <Alberth> aka you're not their intended public :p
14:44:10  <drac_boy> alberth public = fleischmann != brass
14:44:33  <drac_boy> they're probably going have to lose a large chunk of their market if they are moving to brass pricing
14:45:00  <drac_boy> (brawa had always been a bit of a low volume but thats their merit for high details of unique models)
14:45:02  <Alberth> and you think they didn't consider that?
14:45:40  <drac_boy> well given that marklin and even lgb both have been bailed out .. I don't think fleischmann would be wise to try skip the mass-$ market
14:46:00  <drac_boy> (tbh marklin might have produced low cost models but many of their locomotives were and still are in the 0+ range)
14:47:00  <drac_boy> bit OT but I think lionel even had to flip at least once too
14:50:13  <Samu> Allow construction of ship depots, docks and locks on canals owned by other companies. Also allow funding or prospecting water-based industries such as Oil Rigs on canals owned by other companies.
14:50:16  <Samu> better?
14:51:39  <drac_boy> samu hmm probably, I'm maybe not the best one to comment on that tho :p
14:52:30  <Samu> about to submit patch, only fixing typos and comments and spaces, :(
14:52:45  <Samu> and english
14:52:53  <Alberth> description seems ok to me
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15:04:55  <Samu> posted
15:04:55  <Samu>
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15:14:27  <Samu> interesting that I logged dates
15:14:36  <Samu> took me 1 year and half to complete
15:15:30  <Samu> i'm not sure if ppl like the idea of indestructible rivers
15:15:43  <Samu> but that's how it is right now
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15:28:00  <andythenorth> is it cat?
15:28:19  <Alberth> true
15:28:53  <Samu> now i need testers and no one will test. kappa
15:29:06  <Samu> oh well, back to being bored
15:30:12  <andythenorth> Samu: try patching flat docks?
15:31:42  <Samu> flat docks?
15:33:19  <Alberth> not raised
15:34:07  <drac_boy> alberth you mean like you want be able to put a dock in a city canal without the issues of having to bulldoze a 2x3 hill to put it on?
15:34:39  <andythenorth> yes
15:34:42  <andythenorth> 1x2 tiles
15:34:58  <Alberth> ^ that's the better person to ask ;)
15:35:14  <andythenorth> it’s harder than it sounds
15:36:07  <drac_boy> heh I've never had any issues with the canals .. but what do I know tho :)
15:43:49  <Wolf01> Found new drug... Reassembly, I can't stop playing :D
15:44:07  <drac_boy> wolf01 whats that? :)
15:44:17  <Wolf01>
15:45:47  <Samu> oh, terraforming code
15:45:51  <Samu> slope code
15:46:27  <andythenorth> looks like nice art style Wolf01
15:46:44  <Wolf01> Minimalist and Penrose style building
15:47:13  <drac_boy> wolf01 ah heh well I think I'll stick to ttdxp at home and the infrequent progress on factoryidle .. but seem like you're quite a gamer tho :P
15:47:42  <Wolf01> I'm a gamer, not quite :P
15:48:49  <Wolf01> Also there is a lot of physics, if you want to change direction you need thrusters on the right points, which can weak your armor, so more armor and the thruster point changes XD
15:49:06  <Wolf01> Or just spam thrusters until you can't add any more blocks
15:51:01  * drac_boy puts a EVO ship onto wolf01's keyboard :p
15:51:07  <drac_boy> heh
15:52:07  <drac_boy> wolf01 oh and if you're wondering what that is..this splash screen snapshot should say it all
15:52:13  <Samu> oops, documentation bug t.t
15:53:55  <andythenorth> steam mail tram
15:53:58  <andythenorth> needs tweaks
15:54:28  <andythenorth> engine is 4/8, would be better 3/8
15:54:40  <andythenorth> but then the total length isn’t 10/8
15:55:01  <argoneus> good evening train friends
15:55:05  <andythenorth> I could do a single 7/8 wagon
15:56:51  <drac_boy> anyway going for lunch so have fun wolf01 and samu
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15:58:30  <Samu> typos
15:58:36  <Samu> copy paste habits
15:58:47  <Samu> just posted v2
15:59:11  <Samu> doesn't change the code portion at all
15:59:46  <Samu> smart dock placement, i see
16:00:04  <Samu> but that would require dock orientation?
16:00:38  <Samu> there's 4 directions possible, hmm
16:00:43  <andythenorth> or the lengths can change
16:02:14  <Samu> what would a dock lenght do?
16:03:01  <Alberth> longer docks, would be my guess
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16:04:00  <Samu> just that?
16:04:45  <Samu> you want bigger docks to have more ships docking locations?
16:05:03  <Samu> uhm....
16:05:49  <andythenorth> there are multiple possible approaches to docks
16:05:59  <andythenorth> - limit the number of ships
16:06:26  <andythenorth> - make them arbitrarily buildable in 1x1 units, XOR 1x2 / 2x1 units
16:06:58  <andythenorth> - make them able to build on flat or slope, or force them to be on a water tile (arbitrary docking points, anywhere, supporting transfers)
16:07:50  <andythenorth> - keep the current docks in all other respects, but also permit multi-dock so that ships go to the nearest dock, and stations can span land barriers
16:08:07  <andythenorth> some of these are compatible ideas, some are mutually exclusive
16:08:20  <andythenorth> I’d better also add this last one
16:08:22  <andythenorth> - state machine
16:08:26  <andythenorth> it’s kind of obligatory :P
16:09:20  <Alberth> you realize to talking to a programmer that doesn't know c++, right?
16:09:36  <Alberth> *you're
16:10:06  <andythenorth> even better
16:10:19  <andythenorth> I am not a programmer, and I also don’t know c++
16:10:19  <Samu> :(
16:10:19  <Alberth> ok :)
16:10:44  * andythenorth is devloloper
16:10:46  <andythenorth> sometimes engineer
16:10:52  <Samu> XX
16:10:53  <Samu> DDX
16:10:55  <Samu> XX
16:11:00  <Samu> D is dock
16:11:34  <Samu> you want docks to be like super big?
16:11:49  <Samu> X is docking points?
16:11:56  <Samu> XXXXX
16:12:00  <Samu> DDDDDX
16:12:02  <Samu> XXXXX
16:12:07  <andythenorth> I don’t know :)
16:12:09  <LordAro> ecks dee
16:12:14  <andythenorth> someone needs to figure out how to make them better
16:12:16  <andythenorth> they are bad
16:12:20  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE
16:12:55  <Samu> then instead of allowing multi-ships on a docking point, only 1 ship per docking point
16:13:19  <andythenorth> yup
16:13:34  <Samu> size of dock is user defined?
16:13:43  <Samu> kinda like a rail station size currently is?
16:13:45  <andythenorth> built as tiles
16:13:46  <andythenorth> yes
16:13:57  <Samu> omg, that's a lot of stuff to do
16:14:04  <andythenorth> epic amounts
16:15:07  <Samu> the auto terraform is harder imo
16:16:59  <Samu> docks have quite a bit catchment area, docks that long could be bad
16:17:03  <Samu> big*
16:18:48  <Alberth> start with 1 tile (or 2 tile) flat docks
16:19:10  <Alberth> 2 tile looks better probably
16:20:18  <Samu> the pathfinder would need to know where to send the ships in case of multi-docks
16:21:12  <Samu> let me re-read flat docks again
16:23:12  <Samu> maybe dock could autobuild a canal on bare land? that would help construction
16:23:25  <Samu> but the 3rd tile would still need to be water
16:23:30  <Samu> what if it isn't?
16:24:14  <Samu> 3rd tile aka docking point
16:30:42  <Samu> a different approach for water construction: instead of coming up with an error saying that it must be built on water, auto builds missing canals
16:30:55  <Samu> locks already seem to do this
16:31:38  <Samu> building a buoy on land? auto-build the missing canal then put the buoy there
16:31:50  <Samu> canal prices however... are too big
16:32:39  <Samu> gonna try this approach
16:32:44  <Samu> brb, editing
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16:44:54  <andythenorth> docks should just be plain water tiles
16:45:02  <andythenorth> remove the requirement to build near coast :P
16:45:32  <andythenorth> much better for rivers and canals, also more interesting for feeders
16:50:20  <Samu> '==': unsafe mix of type 'WaterClass' and type 'bool' in operation	openttd	D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp	2500
16:50:47  <Samu> what does this mean? unsafe mix?
16:51:04  <Samu> Owner oc = wc == HasTileWaterGround(tile_cur) && GetWaterClass(tile_cur) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL ? GetCanalOwner(tile_cur) : _current_company;
16:52:47  <Samu> ah i see the problem
16:52:55  <Samu> Owner oc = HasTileWaterGround(tile_cur) && GetWaterClass(tile_cur) == WATER_CLASS_CANAL ? GetCanalOwner(tile_cur) : _current_company;
16:52:56  <Samu> fixed
16:58:22  <Samu> drag and drop docks for placement
16:58:57  <Samu> i can see your problem now
16:59:00  <andythenorth> o_O
16:59:06  <Samu> it would be handy indeed
16:59:29  <Samu> minimum size required for drag and drop would be 2 tiles
16:59:54  <Samu> a bit like auto-rail and auto-road
16:59:58  <Samu> auto-dock
17:06:14  <Samu> canal costs £5000, it's utterly expensive
17:06:29  <Samu> why did you decide on this price?
17:07:30  <Alberth> no doubt it's a tunable cost with a newgrf
17:07:59  <Samu> newgrf :(
17:08:50  <andythenorth> probably set high (1) because ships are too boss or (2) mistake
17:09:03  <andythenorth> ships are considered to be cheating by some
17:10:32  <Alberth> default ships are quit expensive too
17:10:41  <Alberth> *quite
17:11:12  <Alberth> also, 5k in default game is nothing
17:12:30  <Samu> 	{   5000, PCAT_CONSTRUCTION, GSF_END,          PR_CLEAR_WATER        }, ///< PR_BUILD_CANAL
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17:15:57  <Alberth> note that 5k is still a lot cheaper than lowering ground until sea level :)
17:17:05  <Samu> a monorail pieces cost £300
17:17:14  <Samu> £300 * 6 = £1800
17:17:51  <Samu> canal cost £1800 - fair?
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17:19:38  <Samu> price of aqueduct is also bad
17:19:44  <Alberth> there is no universal agreement on such things
17:19:46  <Samu> it already is hard to build them
17:23:52  <andythenorth> Samu: canals are known to be totally borked :)
17:23:58  <andythenorth> they have almost zero gameplay purpose
17:24:14  <andythenorth> except for building airports at sea level
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17:40:07  <Samu> what makes more sense to be cheaper?
17:40:15  <Samu> 3 tile lock or 3 tile aqueduct?
17:54:25  <andythenorth> about the same
17:56:16  <Samu> i've been thinking that maybe aqueducts have to be more expensive
17:56:28  <Samu> vehicles can go under it
17:56:58  <andythenorth> which steam mail tram option?  2 wagons or 1?
17:57:10  <andythenorth> supermop, Alberth, Eddi|zuHause ^
17:57:22  <andythenorth> [ anyone else also :P ]
17:57:46  <Alberth> :)
17:58:38  <andythenorth> I am preferring the single mail wagon
17:59:02  <Alberth> mail_tramz4, number 1?
17:59:28  <andythenorth> yup
17:59:52  <andythenorth> number 1 in tramz_3 - the wagons look like space invader sprites to me
17:59:52  <Alberth> yeah, that was my first idea too, but then the mail wagon is bigger than any engine
17:59:59  <andythenorth> it’s ok
18:00:16  <andythenorth> pax version will be similar
18:00:46  <Alberth> the black roof makes it look weird perhaps
18:00:58  <Alberth> other black roofs are longer or shorter
18:00:59  <andythenorth> yeah
18:01:08  <andythenorth> pax version is this, or so
18:01:41  <Alberth> fun!
18:01:56  <Alberth> amazing that that stuff is still available
18:03:09  <Alberth> what if you make tramz4 number 1 a pixel lower?   would that help?
18:03:50  <andythenorth> the engine?  Or all of it?
18:04:04  <Alberth> just the wagon
18:04:18  <Alberth> make it a little less massive
18:05:11  <Alberth> or add some windows at the start and end, like in number 3
18:05:39  <andythenorth> I can make it more chibi
18:05:42  <Alberth> the red area is a bit big
18:05:43  <andythenorth> I could just make it even shorter
18:06:09  <andythenorth> ah here is RL version of a tram I drew already
18:06:40  <andythenorth> funny when that happens :P
18:06:55  <andythenorth> this one has a mailcar
18:06:56  <Alberth> ha, pax transport only when not raining :)
18:07:00  <andythenorth> think it’s dutch
18:07:09  <andythenorth> Arnhem?
18:07:17  <Alberth> doesburg is a city
18:07:29  <andythenorth>
18:08:27  <Alberth> ha, can't imagine people would be happy with a steam tram, coal smoke through the street :)
18:09:03  <andythenorth> at 1.29 in the video, there is an awesome bus also :o
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18:11:06  <Alberth> I saw :)
18:11:18  <Alberth> but 1957, so after WW2
18:11:37  <andythenorth> I should just take the wagon from here, 0:38s
18:11:46  <andythenorth> it’s not symmetrical though :
18:11:52  <andythenorth> most of the tramz are symmetrical
18:12:15  <Alberth>  another steam tram video, suggested
18:12:19  <Alberth> by YT
18:14:31  <andythenorth> loads of them
18:14:39  <andythenorth> better than google images in some ways
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18:18:13  <andythenorth> better, but I need to redraw the engine?
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18:29:43  <V453000> the engine is weird yes
18:31:00  <supermop> yo
18:31:39  <andythenorth> working on it
18:32:00  <V453000> yo
18:32:06  <supermop> two small wagons i guess
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18:35:44  <andythenorth> better
18:35:49  <andythenorth> chassis is weird colour
18:37:43  <andythenorth> chibi
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18:40:53  <V453000> certainly nicer
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18:52:13  <andythenorth>
18:53:44  <V453000>  /rant about boxcars
18:56:27  <andythenorth> I should make them respect transparent mode
18:56:32  <andythenorth> then you could see the cargo inside
18:56:49  <andythenorth> frosch123: ^ V453000 has requested toggle-able vehicle transparency
18:57:01  <andythenorth> controllable per vehicle layer by newgrf author, similar to industry
18:57:05  <andythenorth> :P
18:57:13  <V453000> ._.
18:57:28  <V453000> well the idea isn't completely retarded, just slightly ;P
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18:59:04  <andythenorth> flag on the layer :P
18:59:12  <andythenorth> and no it’s not silly
19:00:28  <V453000> yeah sure it's reasonable :)
19:00:46  <frosch123> just draw one less sprite?
19:00:54  <V453000> hshs
19:00:56  <V453000> haha
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19:12:10  <andythenorth> child #1 says the engine is too red
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19:14:40  <V453000> send him to sleep immediately
19:14:46  <V453000>  /her
19:19:00  <andythenorth> him
19:19:09  <andythenorth> I am waiting for him to go to sleep also
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19:25:42  <andythenorth>
19:25:51  <andythenorth> I think 9 nails it
19:26:16  <andythenorth> the one with 2 doors messes with sense of scale
19:26:46  <V453000> too green
19:27:16  <andythenorth> I’ll make it more blue
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19:50:52  <andythenorth> less chibi wagon, fits rest of set better
19:51:04  <andythenorth> also pax wagon can be similar style
20:07:05  <andythenorth> nah, it looks bigger than models that replace it
20:07:10  * andythenorth changes back
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20:55:58  <Samu> t.t, there's only 1 docking point :(
20:56:16  <Samu> i don't know how to icrease it
21:01:58  <sim-al2> Chibi train engage:
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21:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i counter you with aühle_25.04.12.JPG
21:20:30  <Samu> this is too much code for me to deal with
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21:22:37  <Samu> roadstop drive through have bays
21:22:49  <Samu> is part of the station
21:22:54  <Samu> they can be free or busy
21:23:13  <Samu> how to make a bay busy for a ship?
21:24:13  <Samu> dock has 1 "bay"
21:24:59  <Samu> i wanted to try  and  make 3 "bays",
21:25:59  <Samu> no idea what to do at this point
21:26:32  <Samu> guess I'm gonna do something else
21:28:45  <Samu> an idea I had earlier today was a "drag and drop" building for docks.
21:30:19  <Samu> click, then drag towards a direction, to a max of 2 tiles, release, and the dock is built towards that direction
21:30:45  <Samu> with the exit towards that direction i mean
21:32:56  <Samu> stretch-dragging?
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23:39:57  <goodger> sim-al2:
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23:47:37  <goodger> (glasgow subway train designed for 335 cm tunnels)
23:47:53  <Supercheese> the clockwork orange?
23:49:11  <goodger> that's the badger
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