Log for #openttd on 30th September 2016:
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11:42:54  <Wolf01> o/
11:44:09  <Wolf01> Shit Trenitalia, on strike again
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12:48:52  <sim-al2> Wait how much of Trenitalia?
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12:58:09  <Wolf01> I expect them to file for bankruptcy soon or later, so smaller private companies could really take over
12:59:24  <sim-al2> I've heard that they've been fairly bad compared to the regional companies
13:00:43  <goodger> related: first great western still can't tell me whether they're running trains on the 27th of december
13:01:13  <goodger> is it just that they haven't worked it out for themselves yet, or is it part of some passive-aggressive plot to extract extra money from me?
13:01:28  <Wolf01> They are feeding a spiral where they provide a low quality service and less passengers use trains, so they will provide even lower quality service in response because they don't want to spend money
13:01:39  <sim-al2> As in, actively trying to dump freight traffic for various weird reason, as well as poor passenger service
13:01:56  <sim-al2> Supposedly the road lobby is very strong in Italy
13:03:00  <Wolf01> Also now they are planning to cut out yearly/monthly subscriptions on rapid trains, so you will be forced to purchase tickets every day
13:03:32  <sim-al2> wow seriously
13:03:38  <sim-al2> That's dumb
13:04:09  <Wolf01> They stated that "those subscriptions don't make enough revenue"
13:04:45  <Eddi|zuHause> that kind of spiral is very common in capitalism, unfortunately
13:05:20  <sim-al2> It's like they;re trying to recreate the 50's and 60's in the US
13:05:43  <Wolf01> I hope for overground metro... they are already building some new stations in my area, but the problem is still that we are using the old ERTMS system, which is like block signals of Transport Tycoon, and doesn't allow many trains on the lines
13:06:03  <sim-al2> Just keep cutting until it's basically impossible to actually use trains for normal journies
13:06:30  <Wolf01> They planned to switch to ERTMS level 3 in 10 years
13:08:28  <sim-al2> Is there actually a level 3 implementation yet?
13:09:21  <Wolf01> They started using it last year in Europe
13:10:05  <Wolf01> Seem that Sweden railways was experimenting it since 2012
13:10:35  <sim-al2> Moving block is one thing for metro trains with consistent and strong braking performace
13:10:52  <sim-al2> Freight trains can be a whole other beast entirely
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13:14:28  <sim-al2> Oh, it looks like the Swedish implementations are for rural lines that perviously had little in the way of safety systems at all, and relies on different equipment
13:15:25  <sim-al2> It uses the ETCS 3 standards, but the usage is different, no moving blocks for example
13:22:37  <Wolf01> lol... how complicate is our signalling system? (and the english version isn't even complete)
13:22:53  <Wolf01> The UK one is really easier to understand
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13:42:34  <sim-al2> Italy's is a lot like some of the old US speed signaling, but it looks like they kept adding stuff (so not unlike the US either)
13:42:59  <sim-al2> The track code system is also based on American equipment
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14:23:54  <Wolf01> Reboot.. I hope to be able to return
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14:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> ... famous last words :p
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14:39:18  <Wolf01> The reboot is always a critical action with my system, shotdown and manual startup works, but startup after reboot always fail badly
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14:48:44  <Alberth> hi hi
14:48:49  <Wolf01> o/
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16:14:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that sounds like a hardware/driver problem, some device doesn't reset properly on "soft" reboot
16:14:53  <Wolf01> The bios is TFU
16:15:32  <Wolf01> I can't anymore save and exit because the pc wouldn't boot up again if I don't remove the ram
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17:45:54  <Wolf01> V453000, nice new rails, are you layering them to resolve the sleepers over rail problem?
17:46:33  <V453000> yes, they work with 4 layers
17:46:41  <V453000> I will describe it in detail in about 2 weeks
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17:47:46  <NekoMaster> hello everybody!
17:47:48  <Wolf01> TBH I didn't understood well the problem which will be fixed not having the prites flipped
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17:48:02  <V453000> if you have them flipped they must look flat - top down view
17:48:10  <V453000> now they are rendered at 45 deg so you see their bottom parts
17:48:34  <Wolf01> Oh ok
17:48:54  <NekoMaster> I wonder if someone can help me with my NML problem, another random problem >_>
17:48:59  <Wolf01> Old flat graphics will still be there, right?
17:49:14  <V453000> actually not
17:49:14  <Wolf01> Because my tablet wouldn't handle the new graphics
17:49:30  <V453000> wait you are mixing it up
17:49:44  <V453000> factorio will always have normal resolution of sprites, and high resolution as an option
17:49:46  <V453000> for all graphics
17:50:00  <Wolf01> Ok, I meant that
17:50:21  <Wolf01> I already have problems with smoke with that pc
17:50:31  <NekoMaster> Heres a problem I'm having with NML when I try to compile (with code that worked just the other day)
17:50:31  <Wolf01> Had to deactivate it :P
17:50:43  <Wolf01> Also, dinner, bbl
17:51:00  <V453000> it will need a little more vram than previously since we don't flip it yes
17:51:03  <V453000> but it isn't that much
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17:51:49  <drac_boy> hi
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17:51:52  <NekoMaster> hello
17:51:57  <NekoMaster> hi andy
17:51:57  <andythenorth> is cat
17:52:07  <NekoMaster> is the master of cats
17:52:08  <NekoMaster> :D
17:52:20  <NekoMaster> too bad i'm not a master of NML
17:53:41  <andythenorth> is / valid in comments?
17:53:49  * andythenorth wonders if it’s tripping up an escape
17:53:58  <NekoMaster> Hmm?
17:54:02  <drac_boy> just curious about this but .. I know ttdx was 1950 .. ttdxp was 1920 .. but how early does ottd let you start at again btw?
17:54:07  <andythenorth> nvm, I was looking at the wrong line
17:54:11  <andythenorth> drac_boy: guess?
17:54:54  <NekoMaster> NML Is complaning that "template" is an unexpected token and fails to compile >_>
17:55:04  <andythenorth> NekoMaster: where’s the actual code (rather than a screenshot of the code)
17:55:15  <andythenorth> paste it in the forums, or
17:55:17  <NekoMaster> its on my hard disk, in my dropbox
17:55:24  <NekoMaster> I could just link to the file directly
17:55:26  <andythenorth> public dropbox?
17:55:29  <andythenorth> that works
17:55:44  <drac_boy> andy.. 1900?
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17:55:58  <NekoMaster> I believe in OpenTTD you can start as early as 1600
17:56:00  <andythenorth> drac_boy: you don’t have ottd installed where you ar?
17:56:02  <andythenorth> are *
17:56:05  <NekoMaster>
17:56:19  <NekoMaster> my template.pnml file
17:56:54  <andythenorth> got it
17:56:58  <NekoMaster> This stuff worked the other day and now it doesnt work
17:56:58  <Alberth> oh, hi, I just replied
17:57:30  <Alberth> open the nml file, find the line in that file by searchiing for something unique like your comment in line 70
17:57:36  <Alberth> *at line 70
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17:57:50  <Alberth> likely the construct before is messed up
17:58:05  <NekoMaster> Well its complaining that at Line 73 theres an unexpected token
17:58:15  <andythenorth> misssing } on L69
17:58:28  <andythenorth>  on it
17:58:29  <NekoMaster> : I
17:58:32  <NekoMaster> im so dumb
17:58:47  <andythenorth> no, you’re just not in the habit of knowing how to do this stuff
17:58:52  <andythenorth> nobody got born knowing
17:59:04  <NekoMaster> Well it is true that I'm still new to coding
17:59:17  <Alberth> yes, "template" can only belong to top-level definitions, and a missing }  prevents you from reaching top -level :)
17:59:35  <Alberth> np, it happened to all of us
17:59:44  <Alberth> with various brackets :p
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18:00:22  <NekoMaster> Now im having another problem >_>
18:00:35  * andythenorth gets told off by Jenkins many days for writing <div> instead of </div>
18:00:47  <andythenorth> which the browser will usually parse fine, but fails the validator
18:00:54  <NekoMaster> VehicleID.pnml, line 7 : Syntax error , unexpectedt token "item"
18:00:55  <Alberth> :)
18:01:06  <andythenorth> NekoMaster: paste or link
18:01:07  <NekoMaster>
18:01:28  <NekoMaster> [Knmlc ERROR: "src/vehicleID.pnml", line 7: Syntax error, unexpected token "item"
18:01:28  <NekoMaster> Included from: "NARS_ADDON_SET.pnml", line 13
18:01:28  <NekoMaster> make: *** [NARS_ADDON_SET.grf] Error 1
18:01:28  <NekoMaster> cp: cannot stat `D:\USERS\MATTHEW\~DROPBOX~\Dropbox\~ OpenTTD Projects ~\NARS_ADDON\NARS_ADDON_SET.tar': No such file or directory
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18:02:44  <andythenorth> have you got the compiled nml file?
18:02:54  <andythenorth> that one might be an error in preceeding include file
18:03:18  <andythenorth>
18:03:26  <NekoMaster> yeah theres the NARS_ADDON_SET.nml
18:03:39  <NekoMaster> I tried deleting it but that didn't change anything
18:04:15  <andythenorth> generate it again and paste it into the pastebin above
18:04:35  <andythenorth> Wolf01: did you play on last night? o_O
18:04:52  <NekoMaster> here you go
18:04:53  <NekoMaster>
18:05:50  <andythenorth> L256 another missing }
18:06:02  <andythenorth> should be on L257
18:06:10  <NekoMaster> how do I fix that?
18:06:17  <andythenorth> template_L6B is borked
18:06:47  <andythenorth> in templates.pnml
18:06:53  <NekoMaster> i see it
18:06:57  <NekoMaster> added a bracket
18:07:01  <andythenorth> there are two choices here
18:07:03  <andythenorth> that
18:07:04  <andythenorth>  help
18:07:14  <andythenorth> oops, hit enter there :P
18:07:28  <andythenorth> 1. get a text editor that warns about missing brackets, many do
18:07:38  <andythenorth> 2. and/or write code like this
18:07:40  <andythenorth> item()
18:07:43  <andythenorth> item(stuff)
18:07:48  <andythenorth> item(stuff) {}
18:07:53  <andythenorth> item(stuff) {more stuff}
18:08:00  <NekoMaster> Im using notepad++
18:08:09  <NekoMaster> i like that its simple and easy to use
18:08:28  <andythenorth> same issue comes up with things like “”
18:08:45  <andythenorth> so lots of people do the brackets, quotes etc, then put the content in
18:08:52  <NekoMaster> yay my code compiled!
18:08:52  <andythenorth> <div></div>
18:08:59  <NekoMaster> now I can get back to adding more locomotives
18:09:09  <NekoMaster> i just did up the sprite sheets for some GE locomotives
18:09:20  <NekoMaster> Including my horribly modified GE P32-8BWH
18:09:40  <NekoMaster> but im glad its working now :)
18:09:43  <NekoMaster> thanks for your help Andy
18:09:49  <andythenorth> np
18:09:58  <andythenorth> most of my compile failures are just syntax errors like that
18:10:01  <andythenorth> pretty common
18:10:28  <NekoMaster> Hmm, btw how would one add in proper flipping sprites?
18:10:36  <andythenorth> dunno
18:10:39  <NekoMaster> that way small locomotives dont look derp
18:10:43  <andythenorth> there’s a feature for it
18:10:46  <NekoMaster> i know
18:10:47  <andythenorth> depot flip?
18:10:50  <andythenorth> or something else?
18:10:57  <NekoMaster> Yeah, I have flipping enabled on my locomotives
18:11:04  <NekoMaster> considering this is all american stuff
18:11:43  <Wolf01> <V453000> it will need a little more vram than previously since we don't flip it yes <- eh, that it would kill my pc, I don't have enough vram
18:12:13  <V453000> well you can always reduce the graphics options further :P
18:12:13  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> Wolf01: did you play on last night? o_O <- yup, an hour or 2
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18:13:18  <Wolf01> V, I already have the min possible graphics options with current version :P
18:13:21  <Wolf01> Quak
18:14:28  <frosch123> hola
18:14:48  <Alberth> o/
18:16:16  <andythenorth> Wolf01: did you keep a save locally? o_O
18:16:20  <andythenorth> I have a save from when I left
18:16:38  <Wolf01> Uhm... nope, I forgot
18:16:49  <Wolf01> Also my router disconnected again
18:17:55  <Wolf01> Btw, I think we could restart from there, as when I disconnected we only had 10 years left and just one factory
18:19:05  <andythenorth> I need to get my kids in bed and sort out dinner
18:19:11  <andythenorth> but I might play again tonight
18:19:13  <andythenorth> or tomorrow
18:19:18  <andythenorth> depends if anyone else joins :)
18:19:24  <andythenorth> we need about 5 people to win SV
18:19:34  <Wolf01> I don't know if I can, multiple updates running in my network
18:19:41  <andythenorth> tomorrow might be better?
18:19:47  <Wolf01> Yes
18:20:14  <NekoMaster> hmm
18:20:43  <NekoMaster> Perhaps I should disable flipping on short locomotives until I can fix the gap issue with small locmotives
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18:26:12  <andythenorth> what problem are you having?
18:28:56  <V453000> Wolf01: minimal or normal? :D
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18:33:01  <andythenorth> oh he gone
18:33:07  <andythenorth> mystery of flipping will never be know
18:33:10  <andythenorth> known *
18:33:14  * andythenorth should bed
18:33:16  <andythenorth> type cannot
18:34:32  <Wolf01> andythenorth, do you have running restrictions too, like "train must have brake wagon"?
18:35:30  <Wolf01> V453000, minimal, I have an Intel integrated gpu
18:35:48  <Wolf01> It doesn't even show HD movie
18:41:52  <andythenorth> Wolf01: not in Iron Horse
18:41:56  <andythenorth> brake wagon is eye candy
18:44:49  <Wolf01> I found a strange thing with Pikka's UK train set, I can't run trains without the caboose and my friend which plays in coop can, if I send the train to a depot I can't run it again :P
18:45:01  <Alberth> andy:   the section that starts with "Mind you"
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18:48:42  <andythenorth> either he’s not set the length correctly, or he’s got the sprites on a sub-optimal bounding box, and is relying on offsets to move them back where they should be
18:49:30  <andythenorth> or he’s not handling depot view correctly
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18:50:17  <andythenorth> eh, so the RH trams work then?
18:50:45  <andythenorth> based on the use in the MP games
18:54:18  <Alberth> I only used a few types, but they seemed nice
18:54:37  <Alberth> perhaps the game was a bit late for RH?
18:55:06  <Alberth> we had a lot of tramz iirc
18:55:19  <Alberth> or is that all the different cargoes?
18:55:33  <peter1138> Date:   Sat Apr 11 18:46:01 2015 +0000
18:55:39  <peter1138> my checkout is a bit old...
18:58:04  <Alberth> don't think much happened
18:58:10  <andythenorth> "translations”
18:58:16  <andythenorth> and a few bug fixes
18:58:25  <andythenorth> no BAD FEATURES
18:58:48  <andythenorth> Alberth: probably 3 or 4 of each type of tram in a game that late
18:58:54  <andythenorth> ‘pick the newest'
18:59:18  <Alberth> I went for fastest or largest or so :)
18:59:30  <peter1138> Your branch is behind 'origin/master' by 289 commits, and can be fast-forwarded.
18:59:36  <peter1138> Yeah, 289 in over a year...
19:00:24  <V453000> Wolf01: I will suggest a graphics mode which only uses 8 pixel colours instead of all atlases
19:00:49  <Alberth> 2. just black and white :)
19:01:18  * andythenorth considers a new ‘night mode’ base set 
19:01:43  <Alberth> the current one is mostly unusable iirc
19:02:11  <Alberth> it's so dark, you can't even see what you're doing
19:03:03  <andythenorth> my kids play a dragon game that updates now and then with a new theme
19:03:11  <andythenorth> it’s just gone ‘night mode’ for autumn
19:03:21  <andythenorth> but it’s not that dark
19:03:24  <andythenorth> kind of blue
19:03:37  <Alberth> hmm, they skipped toyland ground sprites :)
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19:05:10  <Alberth> oh, might be opengfx+landscape instead
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19:10:01  <Wolf01> V453000, dows texture compression changes a lot? Should I enable or disable that?
19:10:12  <Wolf01> *does
19:10:14  <V453000> try? :D
19:10:31  <Wolf01> I take 4 minutes to launch the game
19:10:47  <Wolf01> No time to check every option
19:12:11  <Wolf01> But I found that the sprite resolution does not change the speed it run
19:12:42  <Wolf01> So I can have it set to normal
19:16:06  <Wolf01> I'm using the stable version there, maybe I should try with 0.14
19:23:07  <Wolf01> Nice... 0.14.12 looks really corrupt
19:24:34  <V453000> ._.
19:24:49  <V453000> might want to consider upgrading your hardware tbh
19:25:05  <V453000> the requirements will likely not decrease when it comes to VRAM
19:25:09  <V453000> we don't even have all entities done yet
19:25:20  <Wolf01> Can't... it's an all-in-one pc
19:29:46  <Wolf01> 0.14.11 works
19:30:37  <V453000> sorry but what does all in one pc mean?
19:31:55  <andythenorth>
19:32:47  <V453000> well you can always throw it away and buy a replacement :P
19:33:08  <Alberth> the former yes, the latter may be a problem :p
19:33:21  <Wolf01> If you give me a job I could try to buy a surface 4 pro
19:33:48  <Wolf01> Btw, 0.14.12 is borked
19:34:04  <V453000> idk :D
19:34:51  <andythenorth> factorio hiring? o_O
19:34:56  * andythenorth could apply for a job
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19:36:46  <Wolf01> With 0.14.11, normal textures, everything else disabled it's running at 29-34 FPS
19:38:39  <V453000> andythenorth: sure do :) it's great
19:40:48  <andythenorth> or /me could start a games company
19:41:15  <Wolf01> Nice, will you start hiring?
19:41:26  <andythenorth> would need an idea, and some money :P
19:41:31  <andythenorth> best way to get money is to sell the gam
19:41:33  <andythenorth> game *
19:48:55  <Wolf01> I'm working at 2 games, 3 if I count OTTD, but that's not mine :P
19:49:21  <Wolf01> The first one is the third time I'm rewriting it from scratch
20:08:28  * andythenorth bed
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20:36:29  <Samu> hi
20:36:45  <Samu> glx: can you take a look at this crash for me, pls?
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20:44:19  <glx> getting required files :)
20:45:03  <glx> but if you have msvc it's easy to do it yourself
20:46:45  <glx> you just need to get the pdb corresponding to openttd.exe from then open the crash.dmp in msvc
20:47:12  <glx> of course you also need the source files
20:53:53  <Samu> i dont have a way to do that on this system
20:54:51  <glx> anyway it's a very old cpu ;)
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21:04:12  <glx> getting the stmbols is slower than it used to be
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21:05:27  <glx> maybe because most of the files are not in my local cache
21:10:35  <glx> call stack attached
21:10:55  <glx> but it's a weird crash
21:12:52  <Samu> ~_~
21:15:21  <Samu> privileged instruction?
21:17:39  <Samu> does that mean, cpu is too old for instruction?
21:18:14  <glx> no
21:18:31  <glx> but something really weird happened
21:19:01  <glx> when executing if (!v->Tick()) {
21:19:45  <glx> maybe the pointer was broken before the call, but that should not happen
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21:21:58  <Samu>
21:22:14  <Samu> trrying to decipher what they say
21:23:30  <glx> the only thing I can imagine is something wrong happened to vehicle pool but I don't see how it's possible
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21:30:55  <Samu> what's a "garbage code"?
21:31:08  <Samu> and why is it called garbage-...
21:31:30  <Samu> Ais run garbage code, right?
21:35:41  <Samu> ah, garbage collector
21:42:04  <glx> anyway I think it may also be a RAM chip failure
21:45:37  <Samu> DDR-400 :) super fast
21:48:47  <Samu> hmm never really had memory issues with this system
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21:52:08  <Samu> it uses a AGP video card, it uses aperture memory and the agp driver ain't that great
21:53:21  <Samu> usually when this system crashes, it's a BSOD crash, brings down windows with it
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21:57:11  <Samu> RAM isn't the problem, maybe drivers are, as this video card belongs to that time when ATI drivers blew major time
21:57:36  <Samu> i have no solution for it
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22:14:21  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:15:35  <lambwich> does anyone know if it's possible to apply patches on osx 10.9? i've been trying but encountering some issues, i think it might be my machine.
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23:00:17  <Samu> glx, about the privileged instruction "A "privileged instruction" is a CPU instruction that is only allowed to execute when the processor is in KERNEL (and/or maybe Executive, Supervisor) Mode."
23:02:18  <Samu> was there a I/O  in here? if (!v->Tick()) {
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23:05:55  <Samu> trying to read a hardware register with an I/O instruction.  hmm :(
23:06:07  <Samu> i dunno, seems like it's AGP aperture memory
23:07:18  <Samu> the fast write
23:07:45  <Samu> windows indicate 0 MB reserved for hardware
23:08:17  <Samu> but i know the bios has set 64 MB of AGP aperture memory. I just have no idea how windows 7 does this agp mem management
23:08:44  <Samu> apparently, not that good.
23:08:52  <Samu> u there glx?
23:11:00  <Samu> well, thx anyway for the help
23:15:38  <Samu> i also read stuff about bad compiler optimization flags or whatever.
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23:27:22  <Samu> 0xc000001d - application failed to initialize properly
23:28:26  <Samu>
23:30:26  <Samu> that build gives me the 0xc000001d - application failed to initialize properly error. google search tells me "certain AMD cpus do not have the required SSE blabla", I find this in most of tech support forums for other programs
23:31:12  <Samu> openttd_vs140.vcxproj must be using SSE2 instructions
23:31:30  <Samu> or libraries?
23:31:45  <Samu> do youknow what's the cause glx?
23:32:30  <Samu> you're the windows expert :o
23:32:47  <Samu> or visual studio perhaps?
23:32:52  <glx> the cause is probably some memory corruption and not related to openttd
23:33:16  <Samu> oh, i'm on another matter
23:33:38  <Samu> i posted a build on the forum, to bring to this computer, and i can't execute it
23:34:12  <Samu> everything points out to SSE2 instructions being required to execute it on this system, which this cpu doesn't support
23:34:54  <Samu> what's different from the build that are created on and the ones created with visual studio?
23:36:36  <Samu> is there a way to create non-SSE2 builds with visual studio?
23:36:46  <Samu> i dunno how to ask it
23:45:45  <glx> compile farm uses VS2010, and SSE2 is default since VS2012
23:45:49  <glx>
23:45:56  <glx> but you can modify it
23:51:41  <Samu> ah, thank you very much, that's what I missed
23:52:45  <Samu> also the reason 1.6.1 still runs here
23:58:47  <Samu> i'm copy pasting this into the topic

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