Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:03:14 *** JezK_ has joined #openttd 00:11:20 <Samu> something very strange is happening 00:11:42 <Samu> i can't generate a world with french town names, it gets stuck 00:11:47 <Samu> openttd is stuck 00:12:38 <Samu> erm, nevermind, it created only 68, that's is too low 00:13:32 <Samu> i really thought it had stuck, lol 00:22:59 *** Snail has joined #openttd 00:41:06 <Samu> patch posted https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75329&p=1177474#p1177474 00:41:09 *** Gja has quit IRC 00:41:11 <Samu> cyas goodnight 00:42:00 *** Samu has quit IRC 00:43:33 <supermop_> yo 00:44:18 *** tokai has joined #openttd 00:44:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 00:44:39 <goblin> dat priority... how does it work? 00:44:43 <goblin> I'm using path signals normally 00:45:01 <goblin> the wiki says something about "two-way pre-signals" (under the Basic Priority), but I can't find ones like that 00:45:29 <goblin> I only have Block, Entry, Exit and Combo signals 00:45:49 <goblin> and not really sure how to interpret that picture on the wiki 00:46:41 *** cinch has quit IRC 00:47:18 <supermop_> you dont really need it 00:47:25 <supermop_> priorities are kind of arcane 00:47:49 <supermop_> like most of the use cases for entry signals 00:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> with "pre-signal" they probably mean "entry" 00:49:27 <goblin> oh. hm. So how do I... hm. 00:49:33 <supermop_> certain play styles that favor building tracks almost like circuit boards do some interesting things with them, but if you just want a good capacity rail line that wont jam up you dont really need priorities 00:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> the naming was changed a few years back 00:49:51 <goblin> probably, yeah, but I'm having difficulty distinguishing it from others and guessing where do path-based ones go 00:50:05 <supermop_> and they will probably cause more problems than they solve 00:50:17 <supermop_> goblin: just use path everywhere 00:50:26 <supermop_> mostly one-way 00:50:54 <goblin> supermop_, hm, ok, so when I'm merging something onto something with more traffic... how do I prevent that more-traffic path to become stopped? 00:51:01 <Sylf> Those people who talk a lot about priority mainly use block signals 00:51:08 <goblin> right 00:51:09 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 00:51:16 <Sylf> path signals are rare use case for them 00:51:21 <supermop_> in a few places, like a bi-directional platform or center track use the two-way 00:51:36 <goblin> supermop_, right, yes, that's what I'm doing 00:51:40 <Sylf> path signals can be used to construct prio too 00:51:40 <supermop_> goblin: that is tricky 00:51:46 <goblin> only really use two-way path on terminus-style stations 00:51:58 <supermop_> but tbh the most effective way is scheduling, not priorities 00:52:11 <goblin> scheduling? Like, time tables? 00:52:18 <supermop_> yeah 00:52:29 <goblin> I don't see it 00:52:40 <goblin> I have a very long bridge so I doubled the path before and after it 00:52:45 <supermop_> it is a lot of work on dense lines, but you can get it so that only one train is passing a junction at any time 00:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need priorities for a doubled bridge 00:53:03 <goblin> and after the bridge, when 2 paths merge into one, everything slows down because the trains accelerate and then stop 00:53:39 <Sylf> that's totally not something you can solve with prio 00:53:42 <goblin> first the left one accelerates, then the right one, and it keeps flipping 00:53:51 <goblin> ok, cool, good to know :-) 00:53:54 <supermop_> yeah 00:53:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you've got an "evil mode" then 00:54:18 <Sylf> You need more capacity for the line overall, so the trains don't have to slow down at or around the bridges 00:54:24 <Eddi|zuHause> as soon as the first one slows down, you get this ripple effect that slows everything down 00:54:28 <supermop_> what you need is more spacing between trains, or double the whole line 00:54:29 <Sylf> assuming you're playing the coop style game 00:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to prevent that first slowdown 00:55:29 <goblin> can I read up about that? Preferably some article that knows about path signals? :-) 00:55:34 <supermop_> if the capacity of the single bridge is enough, then space out the trains so that they dont wait for it to clear. if that capacity is too low, the double the bridge 00:56:16 <goblin> supermop_, _more_ spacing? that's interesting... I always use 2 squares distance between signals, read it on a wiki somewhere 00:56:40 <goblin> I guess it's way too low 00:56:50 <Sylf> goblin: https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Destructive_Interference 00:56:50 <supermop_> but i this case, a priority would at best doom one track to always be stuck waiting, at worst just give you your current problem but worse 00:56:53 <goblin> but the jam happens after the joiner after the bridge 00:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, 2 tiles is overkill, one train length usually works unless you try to pack really tight 00:57:06 <goblin> thanks Sylf :-) 00:57:15 <supermop_> goblin: no i mean how far apart are the trains in time 00:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> might make it denser in areas with acceleration occuring 00:57:42 <Sylf> there's also https://blog.openttdcoop.org/2010/07/27/building-101-double-bridges-and-you/ 00:57:51 <supermop_> imagine you are standing at a real train station - do the trains come every 10 minutes, or every hour? 00:58:16 <supermop_> or do 6 come 1 minute apart and then none for 54 minutes? 00:59:08 <goblin> supermop_, well, yeah, the line is near its capacity, but I'm curious how to juice it up to the maximum ;-) manual scheduling for all those trains would be rather tedious I think 00:59:16 <supermop_> and if it is 6 trains per hour, your junction will work more smoothly if they have a regular spacing of time between them 00:59:39 <supermop_> goblin: if its fully saturated the only way is add another track 00:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i once had a maglev line that merged, and i had to do very exact timetabling to prevent slowdown from occuring at the merge 01:00:26 <supermop_> if you find you need 10 trains per hour, but they need to be 10 minutes apart, your only hope is a 2nd line 01:01:18 <Sylf> if you want to saturate lines to max, you do this https://blog.openttdcoop.org/2013/08/06/dont-try-this-at-home-prozone-game-2013/ 01:01:27 <goblin> supermop_, well, it's not fully saturated yet, it just saturates after the bridge, the rest is reasonably empty 01:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> make sure the two paths over the bridge are exactly the same length 01:02:24 <goblin> okie, thanks a lot for all your help, I'll do the reading and come back :-) 01:02:36 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be no conflict on the merge 01:02:42 <supermop_> if the saturation is local, try a timetable - it isnt as hard as it looks 01:02:51 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as all trains enter at max speed 01:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the two paths are the same length 01:03:00 <supermop_> happy to give timetabling advice 01:03:05 <goblin> supermop_, but there's so many stations behind the bridge (before the jam happens) 01:03:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and there is no jam point beyond the bridge 01:03:52 <supermop_> tbh i find it really satisfying to get a bunch of timetabled trains optimized 01:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but creating timetables in complex networks is a nightmare 01:04:27 <supermop_> goblin: you can autofil with a train running to get a starting point to work from 01:04:57 <supermop_> goblin: do all of these trains follow the same route/have the same orders? 01:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be an "instant" autofill that just makes a calculation of track length and acceleration 01:05:21 *** JezK_ has quit IRC 01:05:24 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: man that would be great 01:06:07 <supermop_> or a night/non revenue service mode where you can test a new train over the line without wasting 2 years 01:06:55 <goblin> supermop_, nope! 01:07:18 <goblin> some of them load wood, some of them coal, and some receive oil transfers 01:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: that's called reloading 01:12:12 <goblin> so the "Solution" at https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Destructive_Interference mentions... priority! 01:12:38 <goblin> it's doing some kinda weird look-ahead priority with path signals I think, but I'm not quite getting it 01:13:15 *** JezK_ has joined #openttd 01:15:23 <Sylf> actually, coop's stance is that there is no one-size-fits-all solution to anything 01:15:28 <Sylf> just so you know 01:15:48 <goblin> yeah but I'd like to learn /at least/ one solution ;-) 01:16:12 <Sylf> the best solution is to let people see the actual problem via multi player or sharing the game sav 01:19:12 <goblin> I mean, I know I should probably just double the line and all 01:19:26 *** LadyHawk- has joined #openttd 01:19:26 <goblin> but it doesn't satisfy my curiosity about all this priority stuff 01:20:24 <Sylf> Priority is not the tool to fix a slow down at a double bridge. 01:20:32 <Sylf> That much I can say definitively. 01:21:05 <Sylf> beyond that, priority is all about learning how pre-signals work 01:22:08 <goblin> right, but the link to Destructive Interference mentions only one solution to the problem and that solution is based on priority :-D 01:22:24 <Sylf> that's a bad example 01:22:33 <goblin> so, aside from increasing the capacity of the line, are there /other/ solutions? 01:22:49 <Sylf> it may have worked for that particular case. That's about all 01:23:19 *** LadyHawk has quit IRC 01:23:20 *** LadyHawk- is now known as LadyHawk 01:23:23 <Sylf> make sure 2 paths lengths are absolutely the same, including exact count of straight and diagonal tracks 01:23:54 <Sylf> and make sure that trains just don't slow down on the congested lines 01:24:02 <Sylf> ever. 01:24:05 <goblin> oh, they most certainly aren't 01:53:45 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 01:59:03 *** glx has quit IRC 02:23:20 *** umgeher has quit IRC 02:25:51 *** Snail has quit IRC 02:33:45 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 02:45:02 <supermop_> Sylf: do the pf penalties have to be exactly equal? 02:45:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the vehicle steps, not the pathfinder penalties 02:45:59 <supermop_> doesn't a train on line ahead weigh enough to overcome any slightly higher bits of the empty line? 02:46:29 *** DDR has quit IRC 02:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if the lines have different numbers of steps, then a train taking the shorter route will run into the previous train taking the longer route, forcing him to stop 02:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and once a train has to stop, you have "lost" 02:48:12 *** DDR has joined #openttd 02:48:23 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no way out of that other than stopping all trains and emptying the line, then starting up again 02:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause> note that straight vehicle steps do not equal diagonal vehicle steps 02:49:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need to have the same number of diagonal trackbits 02:53:58 <supermop_> wouldn't the lengths need to be vastly different to be meaningful? 02:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> no, if your trains are tightly packed, even small differences can have this impact 02:54:34 <supermop_> surely both trains would reach a station or something before they had to merge again? 02:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> this is about a doubled bridge, not a station 03:03:15 <Sylf> the pf penalty of red signal is probably bigger than any other form of pf penalties from multiple bridges/tunnels, extra slopes etc 03:06:02 <supermop_> going to bed 03:17:27 *** JezK_ has quit IRC 03:38:47 *** JezK_ has joined #openttd 03:54:00 *** umgeher has joined #openttd 05:03:10 *** heffer has quit IRC 05:04:28 *** heffer has joined #openttd 05:35:19 *** keoz has joined #openttd 06:19:19 *** keoz has quit IRC 06:26:51 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:44:10 *** keoz has joined #openttd 06:54:09 *** keoz has quit IRC 06:58:02 *** JezK_ has quit IRC 07:26:40 *** supermop has joined #openttd 07:33:10 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 08:31:19 *** txtsd_ has joined #openttd 08:32:22 *** txtsd has quit IRC 08:32:22 *** txtsd_ is now known as txtsd 09:00:55 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 09:12:21 <LordAro> who runs the OpenTTDSVN twitter? i think zephyris? it seems to have got stuck: https://twitter.com/OpenTTDSVN 09:15:37 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:16:23 <Wolf01> o/ 10:07:02 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:05:57 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 11:12:10 *** supermop has quit IRC 11:34:17 *** Snail has joined #openttd 11:55:36 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:58:49 *** Snail has quit IRC 12:02:08 <Samu> hi 12:17:21 *** Speedy` has joined #openttd 12:19:18 *** Speedy has quit IRC 12:19:18 *** Speedy` is now known as Speedy 12:39:57 *** SpComb has quit IRC 12:54:18 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 12:58:21 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 13:02:42 *** SpComb has joined #openttd 13:19:24 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 13:20:31 <goblin> Trains can make one 45° turn without slowing down. 13:20:59 <Eddi|zuHause> they can also make two opposite 45° turns without slowing down 13:21:21 <goblin> ^ doesn't seem to be the case for me, I have an AsiaStar locomotive with 8 wagons, and it slows down from 265 to about 200km/h on a 45deg turn 13:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> are you using realistic acceleration? 13:22:11 <peter1138> "new" or "old" acceleration? 13:22:28 <peter1138> heh, it's "realistic" of course haha 13:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: "new" and "old" are even worse names than "realistic" 13:23:02 <goblin> oops sorry :-) yeah the setting wasn't changed on that save, sorry, was the old one 13:23:09 <peter1138> hence the quotes 13:43:02 <supermop__> good morning 13:53:47 *** keoz has joined #openttd 14:02:49 *** keoz has quit IRC 14:17:22 <argoneus> good afternoon train friends 14:18:22 <Wolf01> So, it's morning or afternoon? 14:18:51 <goodger> both, and neither 14:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> schrödinger's noon 14:27:13 <supermop__> don't look 14:27:30 <supermop__> then i can believe its 18:30 and go home 14:28:00 <Eddi|zuHause> well, post-fact society is the new trend 14:28:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "felt" reality is more important than "facts" 14:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> people "feel" like crime is rising, even though statistics say it's been consistently dropping in the last 20 years 14:32:46 <Wolf01> I feel like I'm alone :( 14:45:20 <goodger> people feel like the UK is disadvantaged by the lisbon treaty 14:45:30 <goodger> but that's mostly because they have no idea what it says 14:52:08 <Samu> wrightai is the most disasterous AI 14:52:32 <Samu> aircraft disasters everywhere 14:52:38 <Samu> uses big planes on small airports 14:54:24 <Samu> unrealistic acceleration 14:54:35 <Samu> faster than bugatti 14:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> treaties like that are like program code, nobody involved ever reads the whole thing, just the excerpts that concern them 14:56:22 <Eddi|zuHause> like, nobody in here ever read the ENTIRETY of the openttd code 15:01:46 <supermop__> Eddi|zuHause: last week congress here passed a law that apparently only one senator really read 15:01:49 <goodger> welp, hintjens is dead 15:02:09 <goodger> to which I say: bugger. 15:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop__: the surprise here is that they actually passed a law at all :p 15:02:32 <supermop__> even though the white house, judiciary, military, and most gov't agencies pleaded with them not to pass it 15:02:57 <goodger> justice against sponsors of terrorism bill? 15:03:28 <supermop__> and then immediately congress complained that they didn't know about these unintended consequences and that the white house didn't warn them enough about it 15:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop__: that's also one of the cases where the "feeling" that these people try to talk them out of it reinforces the will to actually pass it 15:03:44 <goodger> justice against sponsors of terrorism bill. 15:04:11 <goodger> mcdonnell will blame obama for anything, including not vetoing something strongly enough, or something 15:04:35 <supermop__> so now republicans get to sit back and watch as all the soldiers they send to far away countries get put on trial and imprisoned there 15:04:51 <goodger> wouldn't that be something 15:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not only about soldiers, it's mainly about capital investments 15:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "wait, your multinational company has a subsidiary that builds drone parts? your drone shot this wedding ceremony, we confiscate all your multi-million assets" 15:06:13 <supermop__> yeah 15:06:40 <supermop__> but the republicans like to scream so much about how they love to protect the troops 15:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be really funny if that actually happened on a large scale 15:07:14 <goodger> not sure how they think they can claim that, considering more american soldiers are diagnosed with PTSD than actually fight 15:07:29 <supermop__> Eddi|zuHause: that amount of complex thought is too much for most of these congressmen to wrap their heads around 15:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> goodger: again, facts are irrelevant 15:07:46 <goodger> #TakeBackControl 15:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> goodger: it's about portraying this feeling of "protecting the troops" to people that are not involved with the troops 15:12:58 <Samu> the index 'Contains' does not exist - i lol'ed 15:14:24 <supermop__> keep hoping that this election will destroy that party, but i keep being disappointed 15:16:12 <goblin> changing signal spacing from 2 to 6 did introduce jams on my test track, so it does matter :-) 15:16:22 <goblin> (using length 5.0 trains) 15:16:59 <Samu> nerf trains! 15:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i said place signals denser in areas with acceleration (like after a merge, or after a station) 15:18:35 *** supermop has joined #openttd 15:18:53 <goblin> Eddi|zuHause, that test track was just a loop with nothing to slow the trains down 15:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, once one train slows down, all the trains slow down 15:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> if that occurs on an otherwise block-free network, you have too many trains 15:20:28 <goblin> yup. But if there's more space for it to accelerate (or rather, more space between signals), that alleviates the problem 15:21:04 <goblin> well, the number of trains was kept constant for the duration of the experiment ;-) 15:23:26 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 15:23:59 <goblin> http://imgur.com/a/mfpsb using only that right-hand loop atm, it handles 15 trains at full speed with signals spaced every ~2 tiles 15:24:08 <goblin> add a 16th train, jams start 15:24:22 <goblin> change the signal spacing to 6, jams start with 15 trains as well 15:26:00 <goblin> looks like the "Long Reserve PBS Signal" feature request will solve my problem :-) 15:26:36 <goblin> "Signals in tunnels and bridges" would be awesome too 15:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i never said "it makes no difference"... the difference is just pretty small 15:29:37 <goblin> ah, yeah, well, agreed, the jams weren't too horrible so it would probably flow well at 13 or 14 trains 15:30:29 <Samu> https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7Ijg1lKmSUn_4vEc-R0 - my raisl 15:30:39 <goblin> still, that track visually looks like it could handle more. If the trains accelerated together as a group, then maybe... 15:38:48 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 15:38:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 15:48:35 *** omarie has joined #openttd 15:50:51 <omarie> hai 15:56:34 *** omarie has left #openttd 16:01:55 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: does this apply to gender identity as well 16:02:05 <argoneus> that you "believe" you're a girl even though you have a different arsenal 16:02:51 <goodger> wow 16:03:29 <argoneus> not that there's anything inherently wrong with it 16:03:32 <argoneus> just seems odd is all 16:04:09 *** Mek has quit IRC 16:04:19 *** Mek has joined #openttd 16:05:11 <goodger> argoneus: I have a couple of particularly loathsome acquaintances to whom you should say that 16:05:27 <goodger> I mean, I could do with a good laugh 16:06:21 <argoneus> I don't want to pick fights for no reason 16:06:37 <argoneus> it's just like my opinion 16:09:28 <Samu> i just completed a test of 37 AIs using default out-of-the-box installed openttd 16:09:42 <Wolf01> <argoneus> that you "believe" you're a girl even though you have a different arsenal <- like being an apache helicopter? 16:10:09 <Wolf01> It looks like thats the trend of this year 16:10:27 <argoneus> kek 16:11:04 <supermop> Wolf01: there have been plenty of trans identifying people here throughout the 20th century 16:11:31 <argoneus> the approach to them was usually "mate you have a problem" instead of "you're so brave!" though 16:11:40 <argoneus> but I digress, this is a channel about trains 16:11:53 <goodger> also trams 16:12:03 <Samu> it's about AIs 16:12:35 <Wolf01> I like trains and trams, but also transport... not really much trans... but that's my opinion 16:12:53 <argoneus> eh, they're nice people for the most part, just like everyone else 16:13:18 <Wolf01> Unless they do it for fame 16:14:07 <Wolf01> I have gay friends, but they won't attend at a gay pride, because that's a carnival 16:16:09 <goodger> I am pretty sure my husband is gay 16:16:44 <Wolf01> Btw, playing with water time :P 16:22:13 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:38:48 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 16:40:22 <goblin> maybe trains have gender identity too? 16:40:27 *** keoz has joined #openttd 16:41:32 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:41:39 <Alberth> o/ 16:41:48 <Wolf01> Quak 16:42:07 <frosch123> mola 17:02:54 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:02:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:23:56 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:43:21 <Samu> airport efficiency, I don't think this makes much sense 17:43:38 <Alberth> it doesn't indeed 17:44:12 <Alberth> we need new airports, that you can build like trains 17:44:27 <Alberth> ie build run-way, and terminals 17:44:41 <Alberth> heliports, hangrs, etc 17:44:53 <Samu> interesting 17:45:59 <Samu> well i'm still gonna post this "airport efficiency" score 17:46:58 <Samu> as for canal efficiency... maybe in the future ais will actually make canals 17:48:32 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:55:58 <Samu> airport pieces 17:56:09 <Samu> very interesting idea indeed 18:03:46 *** srhnsn has joined #openttd 18:11:28 <Samu> aiai v95 is better than aiai v97, something's gone wrong 18:11:36 <Alberth> :) 18:11:55 <Samu> there's a clear road usage deficit with v97 18:36:36 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:40:33 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:42:45 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:42:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:48:59 <Samu> this is really strange 18:49:07 <Samu> some AIs actually do better with inflation turned on 18:52:13 *** gelignite has quit IRC 18:53:52 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 19:00:31 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 19:00:44 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:07:11 *** user52341 has joined #openttd 19:11:15 <user52341> hi there, can i play openttd without mouse? only keyboard. 19:11:33 <Alberth> tricky, I think 19:12:19 <Alberth> dragging tracks, building bridges etc is going to be a major problem 19:12:47 <Alberth> maybe the mobile version would be better suited? 19:13:08 <Alberth> don't know how they handle lack of mouse there, though 19:16:03 <Alberth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=49867 19:17:40 <user52341> ok, thank you 19:20:44 <Milek7_> Alberth: phones have touchscreens ;p 19:21:02 <Alberth> likely 19:23:56 <Samu> oops, my counting of stations is bad 19:24:26 <Alberth> simplify your counting: 1, 2, many 19:25:00 <Samu> company lists 2 stations, but detailed performance rating counts 4 stations serviced 19:25:16 <Alberth> ha :) 19:25:34 <FLHerne> Samu: Oil rigs? 19:26:06 <Samu> nop, bus + truck stations count as 1 when listing, but counts as 2 in the detailed performance rating 19:26:44 <Samu> gelignAIte has a service rate of 200% 19:26:48 <Samu> :( 19:27:00 <Samu> 4/2 19:27:36 <Alberth> sounds good :) 19:28:22 <Samu> think i'm gonna remove serviced stations from the score 19:28:29 <Samu> it's not accurate 19:29:51 <Alberth> do better counting? 19:30:11 <Samu> that is openttd counting :( 19:33:33 <Samu> i'm finding more flaws on my scoring method, :( 19:33:39 <Samu> grr 19:35:38 <Samu> right, one is the income, the other is the profit, and I'm doing income/profit 19:35:47 <Samu> gelignAIte gets an efficiency of 124% 19:37:09 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:37:30 <Alberth> so 1 profit and 100000 income gives me 1000% ? 19:38:05 <Alberth> and 0 profit can't be calculated :) 19:38:53 <Samu> a better way to do it would be (income-runningcost)/profit, but i'm not in the mood to go back and fix everything 19:39:51 <Alberth> not profit / income ? 19:41:10 <Alberth> although you can't get more profit than income :p 19:41:18 *** user52341 has quit IRC 19:41:22 <Alberth> so you never get above 100% 19:57:30 *** Andrrew has joined #openttd 19:58:40 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:07:27 *** Arveen has quit IRC 20:09:30 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:14:19 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:17:38 *** srhnsn has quit IRC 20:20:28 *** srhnsn_ has joined #openttd 20:42:07 *** Andrrew has quit IRC 20:45:55 <Samu> well, i better start fixing this score 20:45:59 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:46:16 <Samu> sucks to re-do everything i've done, but it's for the better 20:46:49 *** Gja has joined #openttd 20:54:06 <Samu> there's a miscalculation happening within openttd 20:54:42 <Samu> @calc 98450-48892 20:54:42 <DorpsGek> Samu: 49558 20:55:22 <Samu> @calc 13220+12082+9859+5691+4535+4166 20:55:22 <DorpsGek> Samu: 49553 20:55:29 <Samu> doesn't match 20:56:03 <Samu> income - running cost = profit? 20:57:15 <Samu> "profit last year vehicle 1 + profit last year vehicle 2 + profit last year vehicle n + ... + profit last year vehicle 6" != "income last year - running cost last year" 20:57:27 <Samu> why? 20:58:15 <Rubidium> Samu: add 0.7 + 0.7 + 0.7 and give the sum. Now write that rounded to the nearest integer 20:59:43 <Samu> @cacl 0.7 + 0.7 + 0.7 20:59:51 <Samu> @calc 0.7 + 0.7 + 0.7 20:59:51 <DorpsGek> Samu: 2.1 21:00:05 <Samu> 2 21:01:31 <Rubidium> so... 0.7 + 0.7 + 0.7 = 2.1, but if I write it down roundest to the nearest integer I get 1 + 1 + 1 = 2 21:02:16 <Rubidium> oh bugger... I made a miscalculation... or didn't I? 21:02:33 <Samu> integers suck 21:03:44 <Rubidium> it's not the fault of integers 21:04:16 <Rubidium> it works the same with floating point numbers, e.g. 0.07 + 0.07 + 0.07 = 0.21, but rounded to one decimal it becomes 0.1 + 0.1 + 0.1 = 0.2 21:04:25 <Rubidium> it's the rounding that happens 21:04:54 <Rubidium> and for fun... all floating point maths rounds some way or another 21:07:05 <Samu> @calc 49553/49558 21:07:05 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.999899108116 21:08:06 <Samu> its much easier for me to do income - running cost than calculate all vehicles profits of last year 21:08:29 <Samu> oh well, screw accuracy 21:12:32 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 21:14:05 *** pinkypie has joined #openttd 21:18:22 * pinkypie smiles and waves!!! like to chat..... 21:28:50 <Supercheese> *crickets* 21:31:43 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:47:29 *** keoz has quit IRC 22:03:26 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:17:50 *** ConductorCat has quit IRC 22:21:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:23:51 *** pinkypie has quit IRC 22:33:28 *** srhnsn_ has quit IRC 22:47:21 <Samu> i knew this would happen 22:47:39 <Samu> @calc 44608/44609 22:47:39 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.999977582999 22:47:48 <Samu> 1 vehicle only 22:47:56 <Samu> how could it mismatch :( 23:14:57 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:29:54 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 23:43:55 <Wolf01> 'night 23:44:00 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:51:12 *** keoz has joined #openttd 23:52:51 *** THERetroGamerNY has joined #openttd