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00:10:46 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 00:11:49 <welshdragon> Morning, Is there a way to tell YAPF to prefer through platforms over terminus ones? 00:12:05 <welshdragon> Want to avoid waypoints at all costs 00:13:04 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 00:22:41 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 01:14:35 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 01:29:33 *** supermop has joined #openttd 01:32:27 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttd 01:39:42 *** gelignite has quit IRC 01:43:34 *** KingsQuest has joined #openttd 02:05:09 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 02:16:53 *** Snail has quit IRC 02:24:57 *** zwamkat_ has quit IRC 02:29:20 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 02:29:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 02:32:42 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 02:36:47 *** glx has quit IRC 02:41:46 *** drdoom has joined #openttd 04:33:24 *** ConductorCat has quit IRC 05:20:47 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest2887 05:20:48 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 05:25:20 *** Guest2887 has quit IRC 05:25:49 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest2888 05:25:50 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 05:29:50 *** Guest2888 has quit IRC 05:40:49 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:43:40 *** masab has joined #openttd 05:52:51 *** zwamkat has joined #openttd 06:44:19 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 06:44:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 06:48:36 *** keoz has joined #openttd 06:59:23 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 07:01:37 <Alberth> hi hi 07:05:50 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 07:11:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:11:02 <andythenorth> o/ 07:12:13 <Alberth> o/ 07:15:49 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 07:22:20 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 07:26:20 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 07:31:14 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:32:27 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 07:35:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:43:56 <Alberth> such quietness :) 07:44:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:44:47 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 07:50:30 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 08:08:36 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 08:11:38 *** zeknurn` has joined #openttd 08:16:32 *** zeknurn has quit IRC 08:16:32 *** zeknurn` is now known as zeknurn 08:42:32 *** aard has joined #openttd 08:51:16 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 08:56:26 *** Extrems has quit IRC 08:57:42 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 09:01:37 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:06:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:08:46 <andythenorth> quietness such 09:13:54 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 09:15:50 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 09:19:44 *** supermop___ has joined #openttd 09:21:11 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 09:21:52 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 09:23:04 <frosch123> moi 09:25:46 <Alberth> o/ 09:25:57 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 09:26:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: Valuables in Buildwas open tram? 09:27:49 <andythenorth> Alberth: why not? :D 09:28:04 <andythenorth> it’s a side effect of ‘open trams are the default for unknown cargos' 09:28:25 <Alberth> :) 09:32:17 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 09:36:36 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 09:37:46 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 09:37:58 <welshdragon> Morning, Is there a way to tell YAPF to prefer through platforms over termini ones? 09:38:58 <frosch123> yapf prefers platforms that fit the train length 09:39:04 <frosch123> so maybe make the terminus ones one tile longer 09:41:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 09:56:18 <welshdragon> or make the trains 2x longer? ;) 10:00:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you should prefer shorter trains rather than longer trains 10:02:10 <Eddi|zuHause> alternatively, you could just skip this station in the orders (without non-stop), so as long as there is no path around it, trains will take the through platforms and stop there (forming an implicit order) 10:05:11 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 10:42:56 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 10:44:11 *** aard has quit IRC 10:51:15 *** Alberth has left #openttd 10:53:26 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 10:57:36 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:57:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 11:03:57 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 11:24:13 *** KingsQuest has quit IRC 11:40:21 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 11:46:40 *** supermop___ has quit IRC 11:51:32 *** Extrems has quit IRC 11:57:58 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 11:58:42 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 11:59:05 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 12:04:25 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:10:33 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 12:11:43 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 12:24:13 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 12:24:41 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 12:29:57 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 12:40:14 *** gelignite has quit IRC 12:41:03 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 12:42:03 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 12:58:34 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 13:06:37 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 13:29:58 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:40:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 13:43:45 *** aard has joined #openttd 13:46:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 13:51:10 <supermop> yo 13:52:57 *** Progman has quit IRC 14:18:36 *** Snail has joined #openttd 14:27:25 *** DeVonne has joined #openttd 14:34:20 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:34:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:52:52 *** seatsea has joined #openttd 14:53:54 *** seatsea has quit IRC 14:54:23 *** seatsea has joined #openttd 15:01:49 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:13:52 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 15:13:56 <Wolf01> o/ 15:22:02 <supermop> yo 15:22:04 <Alberth> o/ 15:24:20 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 15:51:23 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 15:51:28 <Wolf01> Quak 15:52:26 <frosch123> lo 15:59:09 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 15:59:14 *** DeVonne has quit IRC 16:03:02 *** seatsea has quit IRC 16:09:42 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:18:57 *** DeVonne has joined #openttd 16:21:46 *** efess has quit IRC 16:24:43 *** minisylf has joined #openttd 16:26:33 *** Sylf has quit IRC 16:38:41 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:38:47 <Wolf01> o/ 16:44:18 <sim-al2> \o/ 16:50:56 <andythenorth> wolf cat 16:51:05 <Wolf01> CatDog 16:52:22 <andythenorth> @seen pikka 16:52:22 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 1 day, 4 hours, 3 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <Pikka> why is 90 too small? That's more than two rail coaches 16:52:32 <Wolf01> Today I took a pause... I don't know if I resist until tomorrow XD 16:52:51 <andythenorth> we have wolf frog dragon, but no bird 16:52:56 <andythenorth> also…where is cat? o_O 16:53:04 <Wolf01> Cat is a lie 16:53:20 <Wolf01> Or it was cake? 16:53:41 <andythenorth> cake is lie 16:53:44 <andythenorth> cat is truth 16:54:08 <andythenorth> probably cat http://cousinsvenslarder.tumblr.com/image/151695426005 16:54:24 <Wolf01> Ceiling cat 16:56:09 <andythenorth> Wolf01: resist tanks, or resist NRT? 16:56:31 <Wolf01> Both, no development weekend, I worked too much this week 16:57:06 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:57:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:57:07 <Wolf01> The problem is: will I return to work on it monday? 16:57:29 * andythenorth must draw tramz 16:59:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:05:27 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 17:07:05 *** DeVonne has quit IRC 17:14:00 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 17:21:01 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 17:32:50 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:39:07 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:42:07 <Ethereal_Shiver> LL5RR is enough gap between directions for a TL3 game right? 17:47:40 *** keoz has quit IRC 17:47:46 *** minisylf is now known as Sylf 17:54:21 *** asie has joined #openttd 17:54:31 <asie> Does anyone have contact with the OpenTTD DS developers/ 17:54:47 <asie> Looking into the technical aspects of making a 3DS port, seeing as that platform has a lot more power and it could be actually viable 17:55:27 <Ethereal_Shiver> asie, the people who might would probably be in #openttd.dev (though most are probably in here too, so idk) 17:55:31 <Alberth> do we have such a thing? 17:55:37 <asie> There was one, years ago. 17:55:40 <Alberth> likely it has a forum thread then 17:55:58 <Alberth> you could try a PM to the author 17:56:15 <asie> mhm, thanks 17:56:31 <Alberth> #openttd.dev is moslt for review discussions, mostly unused now 17:56:33 <asie> one thing that worries me, though, is that the 3DS total screen surface is *not* a rectangle 17:56:39 <asie> it's 400x240 on top, 320x240 on bottom 17:56:43 <asie> this introduces some complications 17:56:53 <Alberth> how nice :p 17:57:13 <asie> i could just make it a 320x480 screen but then valuable estate is lost 17:57:17 <Alberth> how did they manage that? 17:57:26 <asie> it does have two screens 17:57:34 <asie> it's not particularly hard to have two screens of different aspect ratios 17:57:35 <Alberth> ah, right 17:57:45 <asie> but i don't think OTTD is ready for that case 17:57:54 <Alberth> you can do MP :p 17:58:18 <Alberth> or make a video driver with two output screens, perhaps 17:58:28 <asie> yes, that could work 17:58:49 <asie> i'll probably look into how the DS port did it, then ignore most of the advice as instead of 4MB of RAM I have about 16 times that to use 18:04:34 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 18:12:21 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 18:19:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:21:12 <Alberth> I was thinking to add non-movables like the radio transmitter to the map, but I can't see a way to add or remove them 18:21:43 <Alberth> it's not a hard limit, but you can play by your own rules anyway :) 18:21:53 <Alberth> and as first experiment perhaps not so bad 18:22:26 <Ethereal_Shiver> Can I do this, or is this merger not valid? http://i.imgur.com/Isle9ur.png 18:24:17 <Alberth> my guess it would block lines 18:25:16 <Ethereal_Shiver> Well, it's a direct copy of this priority merger: https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/c/cb/Standard_prio.PNG I'm just wondering if I can double use the track with the combo and exit signal for both tracks 18:25:21 <Ethereal_Shiver> Or if I have to build a separate one 18:25:27 <Alberth> ie a train at the closest main line track would block a train at the furthest side line 18:25:52 <Ethereal_Shiver> Well, "blocking" is a way to put it, since it's a priority merger, I guess 18:26:08 <Alberth> there is no signal from the end of detection track to both main lines 18:26:17 <Alberth> so they act the same, I think 18:28:05 <Ethereal_Shiver> I'll test it 18:29:08 *** keoz has joined #openttd 18:30:51 <Alberth> trains at one main line, and at the opposite side line :) 18:31:32 <Alberth> or even 1 train, you can just stop it on the detection area 18:32:22 <Ethereal_Shiver> Oh I get you now 18:32:34 <Ethereal_Shiver> Yeah, sounds like it would 18:33:42 <Alberth> move one of the merge points, so you can have 2 detection tracks after each other? 18:34:56 <Wolf01> Oh, presignal contraptions :D 18:34:58 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 18:35:24 <Alberth> :) 18:36:03 <Ethereal_Shiver> I suppose it doesn't matter exactly where I put them, so this is valid enough http://i.imgur.com/8jCl6tv.png 18:36:12 <Wolf01> You'll end up with a full touring complete calculator in a 4196 map in no time1024*4 18:36:20 <Alberth> I always somewhat wonder if making main lines different in height would be helpful 18:36:58 <Alberth> that would work 18:37:24 <Wolf01> Do you know what could be helpful? Eddi suggestion about elevated tracks 18:37:32 <Alberth> why don't you make the main lines straight? 18:37:47 *** keoz has quit IRC 18:37:53 <Ethereal_Shiver> Well, height difference in crossing is always helpful, but in practice, building bridges/tunnels on the sidelines is what I find better, because they're the ones you care less about 18:38:07 *** keoz has joined #openttd 18:38:26 <Ethereal_Shiver> Alberth, you mean make it L_L5R_R instead of LL5RR? 18:38:43 <Alberth> if _ means space, yes 18:39:04 <Alberth> 2 tiles spaces, actually, by the looks of it 18:39:26 *** keoz has quit IRC 18:39:43 <Ethereal_Shiver> Yeah, L_L5R_R means this: http://i.imgur.com/DNNqjIS.png 18:39:50 <Alberth> what I mean is build the entire side lines 1 tile higher 18:40:28 <Alberth> http://i.imgur.com/8jCl6tv.png <-- that needs 2 tiles for straight main lines 18:40:36 <Ethereal_Shiver> I'm going to restart another game later (maybe play multiplayer actually now that I'm comfortable with building ML's that are bigger than double track 18:44:06 <Alberth> or build one main line 1 tile higher than the other 18:47:03 <Ethereal_Shiver> Higher as in elevation? 18:48:55 *** murr4y has quit IRC 18:49:00 *** murr4y has joined #openttd 18:49:22 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/a/53hGo this won't work? 18:49:52 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:54:42 <Alberth> Wolf01: so what happens if there is a train at one main line, and at the opposite side line? 18:54:54 <Wolf01> Note: PBS 18:55:45 <Alberth> at the side line? or at the detection? 18:55:46 <Wolf01> Oh, that, you meant line 2 blocking line 4 18:55:55 <Alberth> yes 18:56:22 <Alberth> I have no doubt priority makes the main line go through :) 18:56:39 <Wolf01> At least 2 and 3 don't block themselves 18:57:21 <Wolf01> I just fixed one of the problema of the first picture linked :P 18:57:55 <Alberth> ah, so it had even more problems than I thought :) 19:02:41 <Wolf01> This was one of the cases where a PBS-preignal was needed, as 1 or 4 could be blocked by any other, but still with PBS-presignals 2 and 3 could block both 1 and 4 19:02:59 <Wolf01> The only solution is to split the priority 19:03:10 <Wolf01> It solves all the problems ;) 19:03:33 <Alberth> except the space problem :p 19:03:47 <Wolf01> Plenty of space in a 4096 map 19:04:08 <Alberth> never tried that, I'd get lost :p 19:04:19 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 19:04:31 <Alberth> 1K x 256 is fun :) 19:05:07 <Alberth> although no useful way to get to the other side, before 2000 or so 19:05:44 <Alberth> not sure how fast NUTS is 19:05:59 <Alberth> maybe it has fast enough engines sooner 19:09:14 <Ethereal_Shiver> Alberth, NUTS has some good options, though in practice I almost always end up using the "strong" class of trains 19:09:36 <Ethereal_Shiver> They have enough acceleration to not need long priority merges so your side lines don't get backed up 19:09:44 <Alberth> medium is faster at long stretches 19:09:53 <Ethereal_Shiver> Yeah 19:09:57 <Ethereal_Shiver> The "fast" class is kinda meh 19:10:04 <Ethereal_Shiver> I don't like using it for cargo 19:10:18 <Alberth> fast isn't faster enough, due to less power 19:10:47 <Ethereal_Shiver> It would be a good class of trains if you played with a low amount of industries but that's really about it 19:10:49 <Alberth> I have had cases where medium was actually faster then fast 19:11:17 <Ethereal_Shiver> What TL do you usually play with? 19:11:24 <Alberth> but then I use freight multipliers :p 19:11:41 <Alberth> euhm, varies between 5 and 8 or so 19:12:02 <Ethereal_Shiver> Ah yeah, fast is pretty garbage longer than 4 19:12:09 <Ethereal_Shiver> Takes half the map to get up to speed 19:12:20 <Alberth> likely it's not even consistent at the network :p 19:13:06 <Alberth> I don't have packed lines, as stuff may break down, so I need space to not block the entire network 19:13:19 <Ethereal_Shiver> Ah, I play with breakdowns off 19:13:27 <Ethereal_Shiver> I end up with a lot of depots I call "upgrade depots" though 19:13:40 <Alberth> oh, I also do servicing 19:14:02 <Alberth> which means trains go in pretty much any direction you can imagine 19:14:20 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd 19:14:22 <Alberth> so I built junctions that trains can go in any direction they want 19:14:55 <Alberth> which also means I can just add new connections without worrying whether the destination is reachable 19:14:57 <Ethereal_Shiver> Vast majority of my junctions are only 2-way by design 19:16:03 <Ethereal_Shiver> I'll just build a different SL nearby which sort of makes it 3-way sort of 19:16:04 <Ethereal_Shiver> Lol 19:16:06 <Alberth> works if you don't do servicing 19:17:50 <Alberth> I should code a newgrf so I have always fast maglev, then I can do experiments with a fast back bone where you connect to, for all cargo 19:18:46 <Alberth> sort of centralized general transport service 19:19:25 <Alberth> cargo-dist between all industries would be trivial :p 19:22:31 *** keoz has joined #openttd 19:32:30 <andythenorth> single tile trains 19:32:49 <andythenorth> hmm, is single tile optimum? 19:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause> no 19:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause> efficiency of a train line is dependent on the ratio between capacity of a train to the distance between the start of the train and the start of the next train on the line. so high acceleration and long trains are more efficient 19:39:34 *** keoz has quit IRC 19:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> while efficiency of a junction benefits from shorter trains 19:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> because there are better gaps to slip in 19:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so what's optimum for your network depends on how many junctions you have 19:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you get to an area where you have only junctions and no straight tracks, to get even close to where single tile would be optimal, you should better consider road vehicles 19:42:23 <andythenorth> 1 tile trains waste a lot of tiles to red signals? 19:42:46 <andythenorth> so capacity per tile is lower? 19:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> not only that 19:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> when a train is stopped at a red signal, because there is a train ahead, it then starts accelerating slowly, so the end gap when both trains are at full speed is much longer than signal distance 19:43:46 <andythenorth> how do we define efficiency? Utilisation per tile of track? 19:43:47 <Eddi|zuHause> more acceleration decreases this distance 19:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> capacity per time at a waypoint/station 19:44:06 <Alberth> amount of cargo / time unit 19:44:22 <andythenorth> if the goal was simply to move 1m tonnes of coal in least time, would the same efficiency rules hold? 19:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 19:45:05 <Alberth> 1m looks sufficient like a continuous stream 19:45:21 <Alberth> ie 1t would be different 19:45:34 <andythenorth> if the goal was adjusted to give a bonus for coal delivered earlier, and penalise coal delivered later…would the same rules hold? 19:46:19 * andythenorth is trying to find the relation between transport efficiency (larger is better) and production efficiency (1 piece flow, or close to 1 piece usually wins out) 19:46:43 <Alberth> depends on bonuses and penalties, I think 19:47:15 <Wolf01> I'm wondering which plug I will get for the DC adapter for the lego lithium battery pack 19:47:37 <Alberth> ie if you have to drive twice or wait a long time, high bonus and low penalty makes driving twice useful 19:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you're running into a john-nash-problem there. where if each cargopacket were to try to optimise its own result individually, the efficiency of the whole network goes down 19:50:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the "absolute" optimal solution is a fully timetabled network where no junction ever has a collision (no train is ever waiting at a red signal). and then you try to make the trains as long as possible 19:50:31 * andythenorth compares the inventory in each case 19:51:24 <andythenorth> for transport, inventory (capital tied up) is engines and people; land and wagons are approximately fixed 19:51:49 <andythenorth> for production, inventory is materials and land 19:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what you're trying to say 19:52:23 <andythenorth> efficient factories make for inefficient transport, and vice versa 19:52:25 <andythenorth> IRL 19:52:26 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 19:53:12 <andythenorth> efficient factory delivers 1 unit sooner, to minimise inventory and get cashflow faster 19:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like, if a factory tries to streamline its process so that it doesn't have to store raw materials, it puts more stress on the transport to get the raw materials there in time? 19:53:31 <andythenorth> efficient transport builds larger batches, minimising cost of locomotion and people 19:53:34 <andythenorth> yes 19:54:02 <andythenorth> this is why ‘lean’ production is such a thing with books and consultants and so on, and not just business as usual 19:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> luckily, this is a transport simulation, not a production simulation 19:54:10 <andythenorth> yair 19:54:23 <andythenorth> TL;DR 19:54:28 * andythenorth uses 5 tile trains usually 19:55:09 <Alberth> I often use shorter trains 19:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i tend towards longer trains 19:55:33 <Alberth> although I typically do put down 5 tile stations to avoid having to change them later 19:55:57 <Eddi|zuHause> like, 8 tile trains and 12 tile signal distance 19:56:31 <Alberth> 8 tiles doesn't work in 1870 :p 19:57:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i ever started before 1920 19:57:40 <Alberth> iron horse starts earlier :) 19:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> train sets, ship sets, road vehicle sets... all need to match 19:58:33 <Alberth> road hog has nice tramz 19:58:43 <Alberth> no need for other road 19:58:49 <andythenorth> 1900 is about right for starting with my sets 19:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that didn't exist the last time i played :p 19:58:58 <andythenorth> they’ll go back to 1870, but slow 19:59:32 <Alberth> 1860 iirc, was the game report, but I guessed that was a bit too early :) 20:00:21 <Alberth> I guess I get new engines around 1900? 20:00:44 <andythenorth> yup 20:00:47 <andythenorth> or so 20:02:22 <Alberth> not sure what to think of that; it's nice not to have to select a new engine all the time, but on the other hand the entire network now runs 1 or 2 models 20:02:41 <Alberth> one for cargo and one for pax 20:03:23 <andythenorth> ‘one obvious choice’ :) 20:03:39 <andythenorth> it mixes up a bit when the electric train arrives 20:03:42 <andythenorth> joker in the pack 20:04:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i like diversity 20:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if there is only ever one "choice", i get bored 20:05:46 <Alberth> plenty of train sets for that :) 20:06:17 <Alberth> I care more about tracks and cargo than about engines or wagons 20:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it's also not good to get drowned in choices :p 20:07:27 <Alberth> it needs a "do random suggestion" button :p 20:07:49 <andythenorth> no choice at all? o_O 20:07:58 <Alberth> although not completely random probably 20:08:49 <Alberth> you can do NUTS and play with a single engine the entire game :) 20:09:00 <Alberth> model life is 255 years :) 20:09:14 <andythenorth> the way I look at it, you’ve already chosen to build a train, not a narrow gauge train, a truck, tram, plane, ship or pipeline 20:09:21 <andythenorth> so the engine is just a detail :P 20:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but sometimes the details are the interesting bits 20:10:27 <andythenorth> choose different wagons :) 20:10:29 <andythenorth> there are lots 20:10:59 <Alberth> yeah, that might be better, different engines doesn't work well 20:11:24 <Alberth> maybe have different engines but with same stats :p 20:11:47 <andythenorth> random graphics :) 20:11:47 <Alberth> just another kind of wagon :p 20:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a reason why CETS has around 5 engines per generation, and the generations usually overlap a bit 20:12:16 <andythenorth> Alberth: what year did you reach? o_O 20:12:48 <Alberth> 1893 now 20:13:06 <Alberth> and a bit bored with the game, BB gives useless goals 20:13:32 <andythenorth> sometimes 20:13:40 <andythenorth> I quit my last few BB games 20:14:47 <Alberth> for me, a big part of the fun is puzzling how to make the network fit and work under heavy load 20:15:02 <Alberth> but BB spreads it all evenlay over the map :p 20:15:16 <Alberth> *evenly 20:15:44 <Alberth> although you can re-use some parts sometimes 20:16:52 <Alberth> I tried a maglev game for a change, and it's different; distance is irrelevant 20:17:13 <Alberth> but they move too fast to get any load on the network :p 20:17:37 <andythenorth> some kind of network bee? 20:17:43 <andythenorth> confined space bee? 20:17:46 <andythenorth> bee hive? 20:18:08 <Alberth> yeah, I have been pondering to steer BB towards re-use (or not) of existing networks 20:18:31 <Alberth> ie do a quick check how much track there is between source and destination 20:19:39 <Alberth> it could probably also check for hills that way 20:20:06 <andythenorth> force contiguous networks? 20:20:26 <andythenorth> probably makes building things like junctions too hard 20:20:34 <Alberth> what does that mean? 20:20:40 <andythenorth> all track must be connected 20:21:01 <Alberth> oh, I drag a long piece of otherwise unused tracks all over the map? 20:21:02 <andythenorth> all nodes in same graph, in graph terms 20:21:19 <andythenorth> would require some substantial patch 20:21:42 <andythenorth> Eddi reminded me that Railroad Tycoon worked that way 20:22:24 *** Snail has quit IRC 20:22:37 *** umgeher has quit IRC 20:22:41 <Alberth> I have been thinking about a way to allow expressing positions in a somewhat simple way, and hook that up to eg payment, or construction 20:22:53 <Alberth> or industry creation 20:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it would probably work to have new goals generated near existing infrastructure 20:23:42 <Alberth> likely there are other nice tricks you can do with positions 20:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> pushing the borders slightly outwards over time 20:23:56 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, that was my estimate too 20:24:28 <Alberth> I had the idea to put down transmitters say every 5 tiles as a border 20:24:48 <Alberth> it's not really a border, but it would do for the first experiment 20:25:06 <Alberth> however, I could not find a call to create or destroy a non-movable 20:25:37 <Alberth> so it might not be possible currently 20:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause> transmitters are technically "objects" 20:26:10 <Alberth> yeah, but objects can't be build either, I think 20:26:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea 20:26:28 <Alberth> or at least I failed to find how 20:27:03 <Alberth> what could work is add tracks of another company 20:27:51 <andythenorth> can bridge over those 20:27:55 <andythenorth> hmm 20:28:05 <andythenorth> we need cliffs :P 20:28:10 <Alberth> oh, it's not about stopping you 20:28:23 <Alberth> it's just letting you know where the border is :p 20:28:45 <Alberth> ie you can fly over transmitters too 20:28:52 * andythenorth wonders if there are bits free 20:29:13 <andythenorth> for an allowed to build / not allowed to build flag per company 20:29:22 <andythenorth> probably quite complex 20:29:28 <Alberth> "buildable" bit for all companies? no 20:29:42 <andythenorth> maybe just limiting stations would work 20:29:48 <Alberth> but you don't really want to specify that per tile 20:30:04 <Alberth> as it's always big areas 20:30:13 <andythenorth> I would sooner divide the map into regions, and have a cb on building a station or so 20:30:21 <Alberth> not paying you for transport would work :p 20:30:26 <andythenorth> ha 20:30:38 <andythenorth> make cdist refuse to route cargo :P 20:31:47 <Alberth> I had that problem in the BB game too, but it was due to a town stopping accepting goods, when I was at 96% :p 20:31:47 <sim-al2> The support topics would be interesting 20:32:14 <Alberth> support? 20:32:45 <sim-al2> Oh forum topics :p 20:34:08 <Alberth> likely the game will be able to tell you where you're supposed to build or connect to :p 20:37:24 <Alberth> "police confiscated your revenue on the transport between X and Y, as it was not approved by the central world council" 20:38:01 *** umgeher has joined #openttd 20:38:14 <Alberth> or a news message "you got fined by X amount for illegal transport from A to B" 20:38:56 <sim-al2> lol 20:39:16 <Alberth> hmm, that would be feasible, even 20:42:50 <andythenorth> sanctions 20:45:19 <Alberth> you don't know how much you received for the transport, but just make it high enough :p 20:45:49 <Alberth> hmm, could that info get added to the cargo monitor? 20:46:33 <Alberth> theoretically, it should be possible 20:47:03 <Alberth> nn 20:47:14 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:47:51 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 20:53:48 *** Snail has joined #openttd 21:11:09 *** aard has quit IRC 21:24:06 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 21:37:35 *** keoz has joined #openttd 21:54:44 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 21:54:56 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 22:02:50 *** KouDy has quit IRC 22:03:03 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 22:13:50 *** markjones has joined #openttd 22:16:24 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:18:01 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:26:26 *** markjones has quit IRC 22:26:40 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:44:45 <Wolf01> 'night 22:44:49 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:01:07 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:09:19 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 23:11:45 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 23:24:37 *** keoz has quit IRC 23:25:11 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 23:34:45 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:35:08 *** DeVonne has joined #openttd 23:36:24 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 23:40:00 *** gelignite has quit IRC