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00:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, a friend of mine once told me how they were in the military and were moving stuff by train, but they had such low priority, that they practically spent the whole day on some side track in the station, until there was a free space on the line 00:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so for a train journey that should take like 2 hours, they spent 2 days 00:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that was in pre-unification east germany, so the network was probably a lot more densely used than now 00:02:51 <Eddi|zuHause> since a lot higher fraction of transport was done by train 00:03:01 <Eddi|zuHause> both passenger and freight 00:03:38 <Wolf01> Now I hardly notice freight trains, ages ago there were a lot 00:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's because of the quiet brakes :p 00:06:23 <Wolf01> Also no more gaps on rails :P 00:06:56 <Wolf01> (until they cut the rails to raise the bridge during floods) 00:39:04 *** gelignite has quit IRC 00:50:11 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 01:42:21 <Wolf01> 'night 01:42:23 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 01:50:49 <sim-al2> Aren't they finally moving away from cast-iron brake blocks too? 01:51:22 <sim-al2> The US did beginning in the 60's, but they are still used in Europe 01:52:10 <sim-al2> Cast-iron gives good performance, but causes some irregularity in the wheel tread to develop, which creates a lot of noise 01:56:26 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 01:58:07 <Ethereal_Whisper> I just built a huge two-sided station :D 02:02:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 02:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there's still a little resistance to refitting the wagons with the silent brakes, but i'm pretty sure in 10-ish years nobody is going to remember how bad the old brakes were 02:05:20 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 02:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the current political approach is to raise the cost for reserving the track if you don't have the silent brakes 02:06:34 *** Progman has quit IRC 02:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> in the hope the economy is sorting itself out over time 02:07:10 <Eddi|zuHause> approaches might vary across different european countries 03:18:09 *** maciozo has quit IRC 03:20:26 *** glx has quit IRC 03:36:29 *** ElleKitty has joined #openttd 03:37:36 *** BluesInTheNet has quit IRC 04:06:56 *** _Fatmice_ has joined #openttd 04:12:22 *** Fatmice has quit IRC 05:57:20 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 06:02:02 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 07:06:36 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 07:30:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:32:52 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:01:23 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 08:01:51 <andythenorth> o/ 08:06:21 *** _Fatmice_ has quit IRC 08:29:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:40:14 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 08:40:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 09:02:25 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:09:22 *** BluesInTheNet has joined #openttd 09:41:09 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8229/generated_production_ratios_3.png 09:42:20 <andythenorth> where 2 cargos are produced, the text is misleading 09:42:29 <andythenorth> it always has been, but now it seems worse eh? 09:42:53 *** Compu has quit IRC 09:42:53 <andythenorth> it’s ‘3,000l and 3t produced per…delivered’ 09:43:18 <andythenorth> but that is clunky, and there aren’t enough text stack registers to implement it anyway 09:46:27 *** Compu has joined #openttd 09:46:58 <andythenorth> ‘6 units output per 8t nuts delivered’ also seems ugly 09:52:11 <andythenorth> ‘8t nuts produces 3,000l edible oil and 3t food’ 09:52:11 <andythenorth> ? 09:52:40 <andythenorth> can’t be implemented, but is it better? 09:54:09 <Alberth> /me reads 09:55:42 <Alberth> your two cargo productions are confusing with different source amounts 09:57:58 <andythenorth> +1 09:58:12 <Alberth> oh, right, for each output you specify the effect for each input 09:58:16 <andythenorth> yes 09:58:25 <andythenorth> the mechanic is good, the explanation is bad 09:58:40 <Alberth> sounds a bit bulky indeed :) 09:59:28 <Alberth> what exactly fails in the "8t nuts produces 3,000l edible oil and 3t food" idea ? 09:59:42 <Alberth> ie what is too much in that sentence? 09:59:53 <andythenorth> it’s ok to read 10:00:09 <andythenorth> especially because I am adding some industries where output is not split 1:1 10:00:23 <andythenorth> so “8t iron ore produces 6t iron and 2t slag" 10:00:26 <andythenorth> is useful 10:00:32 <Alberth> yes 10:00:52 <andythenorth> but I can’t implement this using substrings or text stack 10:00:59 <andythenorth> text stack doesn’t have enough registers 10:01:24 <Alberth> that needs 6 registers, and you have less than 6? 10:01:54 <andythenorth> for 3 input cargos, it needs 9 registers 10:01:58 <andythenorth> I have 6 10:02:26 <andythenorth> and I can’t think of any tricks like packing more bytes into the words 10:03:17 * andythenorth checks the count is correct 10:03:29 <Alberth> ie you need more sentences 10:04:29 <andythenorth> why am I using all of a register to store 4 bytes? 10:04:32 <andythenorth> seems wrong 10:04:36 <andythenorth> also why does it work :P 10:04:38 <andythenorth> it shouldn’t 10:04:49 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Language_files#cite_note-cargoamount-1 10:04:57 <andythenorth> says it needs 4 bytes? 10:05:18 <Alberth> not sure how you get 9 registers 10:05:24 <andythenorth> oh 4 bytes is a dword, nvm 10:05:51 * andythenorth keeps conflating nibbles and bytes 10:06:18 <andythenorth> 9? There are 3 cargos per line, 3 lines in the maximum case 10:06:23 <andythenorth> each cargo uses a register 10:08:09 <Alberth> think in bits :) 10:08:57 <andythenorth> I could compose all the ‘8t of coal’ stuff in the compile 10:09:10 <andythenorth> but that would increase the number of translations 10:09:18 <andythenorth> would need a lower case version of every cargo, and all the units 10:09:26 <Alberth> yeah, and make translations more complicated 10:09:44 <andythenorth> and it wouldn’t respond to player unit settings 10:09:52 <andythenorth> unless I provided all those too 10:11:05 <Alberth> what if you split it in two parts, "factory takes Xt of Y, Zl of Q, or P sacks of V into production" and "it produces At of N, and Bl of M" 10:13:46 <andythenorth> maybe 10:13:50 * andythenorth tries writing it out 10:14:35 <Alberth> unless the output amounts different between different input cargoes :p 10:14:58 <Alberth> *differ 10:15:00 <andythenorth> they do 10:15:21 <Alberth> hmm, complicated 10:15:48 <Alberth> so drop the precise specification? 10:17:26 <Alberth> tbh I never looked at it, although until now there wasn't much need either, as any input had the same effect 10:18:13 <andythenorth> wonder if there’s some other way to express it 10:18:30 <Alberth> hmm, not entirely true, I did look at what input cargo was the best 10:18:51 <andythenorth> I’ve often wondered if the industry could show what the current rate is 10:19:07 <andythenorth> i.e. do you have 1, 2 or 3 of the needed inputs in last 3 months 10:19:20 <Alberth> ECS outputs a lot of statistics 10:19:24 <andythenorth> too much 10:19:31 <andythenorth> just as numbers iirc 10:19:38 <Alberth> yeah, and no explanation what the numbers mean :) 10:19:58 <andythenorth> because the text stack doesn’t have enough registers for george I guess 10:20:26 <Alberth> is the number of input cargo the relevant property? 10:20:30 <andythenorth> no 10:20:33 <andythenorth> it’s always ‘per 8t' 10:20:39 <andythenorth> or 8 units 10:20:50 <Alberth> or the amount of "main" input cargo 10:21:07 <andythenorth> 1. ‘deliver coal, iron ore or limestone’ 10:21:09 <Alberth> I like the idea of "number of used furnaces" in ECS 10:21:16 <andythenorth> 2. ‘deliver coal or limestone for a production boost’ 10:21:23 <andythenorth> 3. ‘deliver limestone for a production boost' 10:22:30 <andythenorth> dunno, doesn’t guide on what’s the best cargo to provide 10:22:31 <Alberth> people find out soon enough :p 10:22:47 <andythenorth> but eh, the best strategy is *always* provide all cargos 10:23:03 <Alberth> I hardly ever do that :p 10:23:13 <andythenorth> me neither 10:23:21 <andythenorth> I provide the one that gets most output per input :P 10:23:41 <andythenorth> based on the numbers in the industry extra text :P 10:23:44 <Alberth> not what BB says you should do? :) 10:24:31 <andythenorth> not in my last few games, but actually, yes 10:24:36 <andythenorth> whatever BB says :P 10:25:46 <Alberth> "cargo X improves production of cargo Y" 10:26:10 <Alberth> (for main influences only) 10:28:25 <Alberth> "other accepted cargoes also improve production" 10:29:42 <Alberth> will probably fail for cases where there is no obvious favorite 10:29:54 <andythenorth> yup :) 10:30:05 <Alberth> on the other hand, there is not much to say then, either :) 10:30:57 <Alberth> "shit comes out if you deliver other shit", as V would put it :p 10:32:33 <Alberth> "cargo X influences production of cargo Y" is a bit more specific 10:33:06 <Alberth> "positively correlates" :p 10:33:08 <andythenorth> I could express it as a ratio, unit independent 10:33:12 <andythenorth> no need for translation then 10:33:16 <andythenorth> ‘6/8’ 10:33:19 <andythenorth> or ‘6:8' 10:33:27 <andythenorth> but it’s maybe less accessible to players 10:33:42 <andythenorth> ‘Production per delivery’ 10:34:09 <andythenorth> ‘Coal: 2/8’, ‘Iron Ore: 4/8’, ‘Stone: ‘2/8’ 10:34:43 <Alberth> yeah, until slag output is different from cokes output or so 10:35:15 <andythenorth> I am reading it as ‘delivered cargo: ratio’ 10:35:30 <andythenorth> without specifying how much of _each_ output you get 10:35:33 <andythenorth> dunno 10:35:34 <Alberth> what that sentence says is "try to do Iron Ore first" 10:35:42 <andythenorth> yes 10:36:13 <andythenorth> ‘Each 8t pig iron requires 4t iron ore, 2t coal, 2t stone' 10:36:22 <Alberth> "Factory desires large amounts of Iron Ore" 10:37:24 <andythenorth> it’s very hard to explain the actual mechanic 10:37:38 <Alberth> "Factory favors large amounts of Iron Ore" 10:37:47 <andythenorth> because if you deliver all 3 inputs within 3 months, you get 8t out for every 8t in 10:38:00 <Alberth> so don't, I cannot change it, so it's irrelevant, mostly 10:38:48 <Alberth> "Full production can be reached by providing all 3 cargoes in 3 months" 10:39:05 <Alberth> "all cargoes in 3 months" even 10:39:58 <Alberth> I never care for actual amounts, I just add more trains until I have enough of them 10:40:23 <Alberth> If I need more output cargo, I insert more input cargo 10:40:40 <Alberth> I don't run calculations how much from where etc 10:42:48 <Alberth> you can move the details to the documentation 10:44:42 <Alberth> giving all the numbers makes people do precise calculations how much supplies to deliver 10:45:01 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:45:13 <Alberth> and you get requests like "there is no vehicle for delivering 21.35 units of supplies" 10:45:30 <Alberth> o/ W 10:45:56 <Wolf01> o/ 10:47:43 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 10:51:02 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 10:52:43 <andythenorth> would be pretty trivial to do it in docs 10:53:02 <andythenorth> I think there’s _maybe_ more benefit in showing player ‘all needed cargos have been recently delivered’ 10:53:20 <andythenorth> but then again, maybe not also :) 10:54:21 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 10:54:44 <Alberth> basically your 'gung ho' indication :) 10:55:23 <andythenorth> similar yes 10:55:44 <andythenorth> can I just use same for secondary industries? o_O 10:55:52 <andythenorth> not all combine cargo, eh 10:55:56 <andythenorth> some just produce 10:56:30 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 11:00:04 <andythenorth> ho 11:00:08 <andythenorth> only one string needed 11:00:15 <andythenorth> ‘Currently producing: 0t' 11:00:24 <andythenorth> ‘Currently producing: 2t per 8t delivered' 11:00:39 <andythenorth> and then increase it if more cargos are delivered 11:01:17 <Alberth> could work :) 11:01:37 <Alberth> sort of "1 furnace in use" :) 11:01:49 <andythenorth> yes 11:02:13 <Wolf01> Are you able to produce 2 different things with the same secondary industry depending on what gets delivered? Like the steel mill produce (a lot more) slag when coal is provided, which also boosts production rate? 11:02:32 <andythenorth> I could code that, but I think it’s hard to explain :) 11:02:52 <Alberth> don't, players will soon figure it out :p 11:02:54 <andythenorth> if that’s needed for gameplay, it’s usually a sign that there should be another industry type 11:03:17 <Alberth> it sounds a bit like a different industry set 11:03:39 <Wolf01> I think explaining all isn't needed, you don't explain why you added coal to steel mill instead of processing just the iron ore 11:07:06 <andythenorth> so I’ll move the ratios to the docs, somewhere 11:07:11 <andythenorth> for people who really have to know that stuff 11:13:30 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 11:14:04 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 11:24:37 <Alberth> s/have/want/ :p 11:24:57 <Alberth> well, as usual, you're free to ignore us :) 11:25:04 <Alberth> or change your mind 11:25:14 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 11:25:27 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 11:30:59 *** rowdog has joined #openttd 11:36:59 *** rowdog has quit IRC 11:38:23 *** aard has joined #openttd 11:49:06 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 11:49:09 <Wolf01> Mmmh, going to mod the shit out of transport fever 11:49:51 <Wolf01> http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=804069984&searchtext= specially this... a double decker bus for 12 passengers always pissed me off 11:50:01 <Wolf01> And the concorde for 24 passengers :P 11:50:17 <Wolf01> Also... daylength 11:50:22 <__ln__> business class 11:51:16 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 11:52:57 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 11:59:25 <Alberth> it's realistic, there is room for about 12 passengers at each bus station, the remaining space is taken by other passengers that don't leave :) 12:01:18 <Alberth> ok, steam website just plain fails, can only see the thumbnails 12:05:01 <frosch123> hoi 12:05:41 <frosch123> textstack or nrt? 12:07:09 <Wolf01> What's next on nrt? 12:07:40 <frosch123> roadvehicles caring about roadtypes 12:08:13 <Wolf01> Seems interesting 12:08:52 <Wolf01> Are you sure to start working on vehicles before finishing compatibility between roadtypes? 12:09:22 <frosch123> what is to finish there? 12:10:31 <Wolf01> Some subtypes shouldn't allow the other roadtype, crossings, rail crossings, houses 12:11:17 <Wolf01> I could work on that, seems easier than vehicles 12:12:20 <frosch123> sounds good :) 12:13:30 <andythenorth> vehicles 12:13:34 <andythenorth> text stack is blah 12:41:53 * andythenorth has to do shopping and stuff 12:42:00 <andythenorth> I can make a vehicle grf later probably 12:55:51 *** tokai has joined #openttd 12:55:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 12:57:34 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:58:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:02:46 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 13:33:11 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 13:41:31 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 13:58:39 *** aard has quit IRC 14:11:19 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:15:44 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 14:41:27 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 14:48:29 <Alberth> andy, galvanising plant, and electric arc furnace do look very similar in-game :) 14:58:50 <Wolf01> I think the comma after galvanising plant is wrong :P 15:00:07 <Alberth> s/plant,/plant/ :) 15:00:33 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 15:03:29 <Wolf01> I'm not a fan of the Oxford comma, as I'm not always sure when to use it, but this case looks really funny with the wrong placed comma :D 15:33:47 *** lorran78 has joined #openttd 15:33:51 <lorran78> hello 15:34:17 <frosch123> we need a 456 guy 15:34:36 <lorran78> i have a question plz? 15:35:08 <lorran78> (est-ce qu'il y a des francais ici?) 15:35:17 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 15:36:40 *** ElleKitty has quit IRC 15:37:37 <lorran78> i wanted to know if it's possible to change release date of trains in a grf because i wanted to have a lot of time to make grow my town and have already the trains (for example not year 1880 but year 1) 15:38:17 <frosch123> get the source of the grf, and change it 15:41:02 <frosch123> on the other hand, why do you care about the year? 15:41:14 <frosch123> enable "vehicles never expire" and start in year 2500 15:41:23 <frosch123> then you can freely choose which engines to build 15:44:04 <lorran78> sorry i was afk wait i read ur answer 15:45:06 <lorran78> hum i care about year because of buildings changind and i wanted to see the old one and finish my own transport system :) 15:45:24 <lorran78> and i don't like a lot monorail :) 15:51:53 <lorran78> i tried to decompile the opengrf+ but i didn't find the year release to change it and don't know how to recompile? 15:57:34 <Alberth> opengfx+trains source is available, can be compiled using nml 15:58:06 <Alberth> the point of "vehicles never expire" is that you keep all vehicles, ie no need to use monorail 15:59:57 <Alberth> even at 2500, you still have all vehicles that existed before 16:01:11 <lorran78> hum okay but the buildings will be modern i want to keep old building and see that changing :) 16:02:31 <lorran78> and i tried to use nml but i don't understand where and how to change release date of vehicules (even in hex i don't find the year ...) 16:04:20 <lorran78> but actually i prefer seeing the trains arriving on sale and change them so changing the year of release is my best choice 16:04:58 <lorran78> i can't find the name of trains neither in grf 16:07:51 <Alberth> nml can use hex numbers, but usually it's plain text 16:08:32 <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains 16:09:15 <Alberth> please change the name and the grfid if you change it, to avoid confusion 16:10:26 <lorran78> ok 16:11:00 <lorran78> can u explain me all step to see if i make something wrong? 16:11:19 <lorran78> i downloaded the lastest version of ogfx-trains 16:11:30 <Alberth> source ? 16:11:45 <lorran78> hum sorry not the source wait :) 16:12:28 <Alberth> preprocessed source is likely the simplest, unless you have a linux system with the usual development tools at it 16:13:52 <lorran78> it's ok i took ogfx-trains-0.3.0-source.tar.gz 16:14:02 <lorran78> uncompressed it :) 16:14:16 <Alberth> open the nml file with a text editor 16:14:22 <Alberth> find "grfid" 16:14:54 <lorran78> which nml file? 16:15:02 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 16:15:03 <lorran78> *.pnml? 16:15:20 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 16:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: during the "make" process, the .pnml files are combined into an .nml file 16:16:20 <Alberth> oh, you have unprocessed source? that's ok too, but it needs more tools to build 16:16:55 <lorran78> ok i tried to understand all that :) 16:17:03 <Alberth> grfid : "OG+1"; <-- this line, in header.pnml in the unprocessed source 16:17:29 <lorran78> ok i found it 16:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the grfid can be any 4-letter string 16:17:52 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 16:17:59 <Alberth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/nightlies/v6018/ that's the latest build 16:18:11 <lorran78> OG+0 for me year 0 :p 16:18:15 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 16:18:17 <lorran78> is it ok? 16:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the usual convention is to use your initials as the first two letters 16:18:42 <lorran78> oh okay 16:19:22 <lorran78> then it's ok now i put 4 characters 16:19:28 <lorran78> then i save it? 16:20:20 <Alberth> never hurts to save it :) 16:20:22 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think I should check also the already present roadtype for flags, and not only the one I'm placing :/ 16:20:26 <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/entry/src/engine_uu37.pnml 16:20:38 <Alberth> trains don't seem to have a new start year 16:20:46 <Alberth> let me look how to change that 16:21:12 <lorran78> oh i see :) 16:22:31 <Alberth> you should have a similar section for each engine 16:23:21 <Alberth> add a introduction_date: date(yyyy, mm, dd) line in the properties 16:23:37 <Alberth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles properties are listed here 16:24:19 <lorran78> how to do it? 16:24:42 <Alberth> got the part of the file with such a section? 16:25:16 <Alberth> "uu37" <-- should be unique enough to find the section 16:26:14 <lorran78> okay wait 16:26:38 <Wolf01> Is there a way to count road bits? 16:26:56 <Alberth> item(FEAT_TRAINS, uu37, 14) { that likely also works as search term 16:26:57 <lorran78> like that : item(FEAT_TRAINS, uu37, 14) { property { sprite_id: SPRITE_ID_NEW_TRAIN; // We have our own sprite misc_flags: bitmask(TRAIN_FLAG_FLIP) introduction_date: date(yyyy, mm, dd); } ENGINE_GRAPHICS_BLOCK(uu37_indepot) } 16:27:36 <Alberth> Wolf01: there is a count-number-of-set-bits in src/core/bitmath or so 16:27:48 <Wolf01> CountBits 16:28:02 <lorran78> i can use TAB in the file? 16:28:08 <Wolf01> I think it's safe to assume it's not a junction when bits are <=2 16:28:38 <Wolf01> (the number of bits) 16:28:38 <Alberth> lorran78: yep, not insert "introduction_date: date(1500, 1, 1);" after "property {" 16:28:47 <Alberth> *now insert 16:28:53 <Alberth> TABs are no problem 16:29:39 <lorran78> before property or after sorry i am not sure? 16:29:45 <Alberth> after 16:29:52 <lorran78> okay then it's ok 16:30:15 <Alberth> ie property { introduction_date: date(1500, 1, 1); sprite_id: .... 16:30:16 <lorran78> ur numbers are example? 16:30:22 <Wolf01> Nice, I can build junctions but not curves O_o 16:30:25 <lorran78> or i must set 1500? 16:30:34 <lorran78> if i want of course :p 16:30:45 <Alberth> no idea, let's see what the properties page says :) 16:31:18 <Alberth> Valid range for yyyy is 0 ... 5000000. <-- take your valid year :) 16:31:45 <lorran78> i must put a ";" after all properties? 16:32:04 <Alberth> yes, it terminates a property 16:32:07 <lorran78> okay 16:32:18 <lorran78> then i think it's okay now :) 16:32:27 <lorran78> yyyy for using 0 to 9999? 16:32:31 <Alberth> good, do you have the nml compiler? 16:32:45 <Alberth> (05:31:18 PM) Alberth: Valid range for yyyy is 0 ... 5000000. <-- take your valid year :) 16:33:12 <lorran78> oh okay if i start from year 0 i put 0 then? 16:34:05 <lorran78> i have this one : nml-0.4.4-windows-win32 16:34:31 *** Gaby_ has joined #openttd 16:34:35 *** Gaby_ has left #openttd 16:34:49 *** Gaby_ has joined #openttd 16:34:49 <Alberth> year 0 sounds a bit early, but whatever you like :) 16:34:58 <Alberth> ok 16:35:02 <lorran78> okay maybe it's a test for me now :p 16:35:31 <Alberth> at the command shell, run nmlc ogfxfile.nml 16:35:52 <lorran78> so i save it :p 16:35:59 *** Gaby_ has quit IRC 16:36:08 <lorran78> okay wait 16:36:19 <Alberth> where "nmlc" is the nml compiler, and ogxfile.nml is the name of the opengfx+trains nml file that you just saved :) 16:36:31 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 16:37:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: so what’s best? A test grf in the nml fork? Or a branch of Road Hog with NRT support? 16:37:38 <Wolf01> Please, kill me with fire... I said n-bits <= 2 is not a junction, I was checking for <= 2 to be a junction :| 16:38:00 <andythenorth> Wolf01: devloloping :D 16:38:09 <Wolf01> Eh, lol is not enough here 16:38:11 <lorran78> i don't have ogxfile.nml (i save the header.pnml with my grfid and engine_uu37.pnml with this change 16:38:14 <frosch123> andythenorth: since we only have silly types like red and yellow, i guess something in the nml fork 16:38:29 <andythenorth> ok I’ll copy some sprites in there 16:38:52 <andythenorth> oh I’ll patch the existing example RV grf 16:38:54 <andythenorth> ok 16:39:08 <lorran78> too many questions in same place lol 16:40:51 <lorran78> i use ogfx-trains-0.3.0-source so if i understand good i must compile pnml to nml? 16:41:10 <Alberth> ah, you have unprocessed source 16:41:19 <andythenorth> usually a makefile does that 16:41:32 <Alberth> then you need make, and the c compiler too 16:42:48 <lorran78> maybe i'll use the processed source then :p 16:42:50 <lorran78> wait 16:44:51 <Alberth> I'd hope that has a .nml file :) 16:45:48 <lorran78> i've done same in the processed source 16:46:16 <lorran78> hum don't seem to have nml neither :/ 16:46:37 <lorran78> which c compiler dl? 16:46:45 <Alberth> how silly :( 16:47:03 <Alberth> gcc, normally, as it only does C pre-processing 16:47:38 <Alberth> *.pnml are collected into a .nml file, with the usual #include mechanism of C/C++ 16:48:12 <Alberth> together with expanding the #define macros 16:48:35 <lorran78> where to download it? 16:48:38 <frosch123> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/push/LATEST/ <- you can get the precompiled nml from here 16:48:42 <frosch123> ogfx-trains.nml 16:48:45 <lorran78> hum 16:48:49 <lorran78> wait 16:49:18 <frosch123> https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Installation <- that tells you about how to install and run nml 16:49:49 <lorran78> i try this one now 16:50:13 <Sylf> that tutorial doesn't mention anything about compiling pnml using gnu make and gcc 16:50:45 <Sylf> which some people probably see as knowledge gap that's not covered 16:50:53 <Alberth> it doesn't indeed, although I would expect it to be written somewhere 16:51:49 <lorran78> oh sorry i see the nml ! 16:51:55 <lorran78> it's not in source :p 16:52:18 <andythenorth> ok so frosch123 I need a roadtypetable, and road_type prop 16:52:25 <andythenorth> I won’t do any cb stuff yet 16:52:28 <Alberth> technically, the c pre-processing is not part of nml, it's just useful for larger projects 16:52:59 <Alberth> and not everybody uses it 16:53:02 * andythenorth thinks the c pre-processing is a bit of a misleading dead end, but eh, that’s just me :) 16:53:11 <Alberth> Sylf: ^ 16:53:11 <andythenorth> it was useful to learn it, and useful to stop using it 16:53:12 <lorran78> i have the ogfx-trains.nml 16:53:23 <Sylf> :P 16:53:25 <Alberth> progress! :) 16:53:32 <lorran78> i put the nml in the nml program wait 16:53:47 <andythenorth> nml needs some kind of string replacement using ${} type convention or similar, with a simple loop syntax 16:54:02 <andythenorth> and a global constants table maybe 16:54:35 <frosch123> Sylf: Alberthhttps://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/1706/NewGRF_development_guide_for_Windows_users_0.9.0.pdf <- there is also a full guide to install a vm for make and stuff 16:54:40 <frosch123> but it involes a lot of work 16:54:41 <andythenorth> actually /me has no idea what it needs, I have my own thing 16:54:41 <Alberth> I tried that, but something didn't work with that 16:55:20 <Alberth> ^ andy, about adding a pre-processor to nml 16:55:23 <Sylf> I've written my own guide on how to use cygwin to compile pnml :P 16:55:51 <andythenorth> the roadtypetable just makes it possible to refer to the labels as constants? 16:56:08 * andythenorth has never understood the railtype stuff, other people implemented it for me 16:56:38 <lorran78> something wrong when compiling 16:57:01 <lorran78> i put the nml in the source where folder src is 16:57:11 <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess you need a roadtypetable with ROAD and the other labels from the testgrf 16:57:14 <andythenorth> yes 16:57:16 <andythenorth> doing it 16:57:18 <frosch123> and then the road_type property for the vehicle 16:57:27 <frosch123> mind, there are also tramtypetable and tram_type 16:57:31 <andythenorth> yes :) 16:57:39 <lorran78> afk 16:57:40 <andythenorth> there’s some compatibility thing in the table eh? a list 16:57:47 * andythenorth will worry about that later 16:57:49 *** ubuntu111 has joined #openttd 16:57:57 <frosch123> compatibility is in the roadtype grf, not in the vehicle grf 16:58:00 <andythenorth> it’s funny implementing something I don’t understand :P 16:59:15 <andythenorth> oh the list is a name assignment 16:59:28 <frosch123> sounds familar, like extending yapf cache for roadtypes :) 16:59:33 <Wolf01> https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/c9c5189b98b44e13e1f97fa198293829 prototype stage, what do you think? 17:00:46 <frosch123> oh, that's what you meant with junctions 17:00:58 <lorran78> re 17:01:02 <lorran78> i have this error 17:01:02 <frosch123> i thought you only meant disallowing tram on certain roads 17:01:07 <lorran78> wait 17:02:20 <Wolf01> That's another flag ;) 17:03:01 <Wolf01> For that I'm undecided if allowing only tram crossing or disallowing tram entirely 17:05:00 <Wolf01> Both are easy, for the first one I should just check if tram and road have at least one bit in common and then return error if true, for the second just check the flag 17:05:48 <Wolf01> This prototype is for freeways/highways 17:07:11 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p0wjbgi2l 17:07:20 <andythenorth> frosch123: choking on ‘ROAD’ at L152 17:07:34 <andythenorth> unknown identifier, suggests my roadtypetable is not implemented correctly? 17:07:48 <Wolf01> Try "ROAD"? 17:07:52 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd 17:07:55 <andythenorth> nah that’s a literal 17:07:56 <andythenorth> :) 17:07:58 * andythenorth tries anyway 17:08:12 <Wolf01> string(ROAD)? 17:08:21 <Wolf01> Or what was the right function name 17:08:24 <andythenorth> nah, it’s a constant 17:08:34 <andythenorth> the roadtypetable should make those constants available, afaik 17:08:36 <andythenorth> dunno 17:09:00 <andythenorth> I implemented roadtypetable by copying railtypetable 17:09:05 <Wolf01> Maybe it collides with something else 17:09:15 <Wolf01> Does it work with RED_ or YELL= 17:09:16 <Wolf01> ? 17:09:29 <andythenorth> no 17:09:35 <andythenorth> tried it :) 17:11:08 <Alberth> frosch: very extensive manual :) 17:11:09 <Wolf01> Maybe it doesn't like custom types 17:11:31 <andythenorth> I just found some debug print handling, maybe I can use that 17:12:00 <frosch123> andythenorth: i would just compare with working train newgrf :) 17:12:30 <andythenorth> -s is a useful nml flag eh 17:13:09 <Alberth> if you can read a stack-dump :p 17:13:26 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:13:34 <andythenorth> it’s python eh 17:13:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: global_constants.py: const_list is missing road and tram table 17:13:52 <andythenorth> I am trying to make debug_print() do something 17:13:55 <andythenorth> oh ok 17:14:05 * andythenorth fixes that 17:14:33 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxrq9reag?/pxrq9reag <- something like that 17:15:06 <andythenorth> sorted 17:17:21 <lorran78> eat time later :p 17:18:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: I pushed, one of each truck for ROAD, BLUE, YELLOW 17:18:26 <andythenorth> available from 1926 eh 17:18:57 <Wolf01> Could I use {STRING1} in error messages? 17:20:44 <frosch123> iirc the commandcost also has dparams 17:22:00 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 17:22:20 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:23:18 <Wolf01> Seem not 17:23:29 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 17:23:48 <Wolf01> I could write a generic error message, "... road type doesn't allow junctions" 17:23:56 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:24:03 <frosch123> oh, it only has a newgrf text stack, how funny :) 17:25:21 <andythenorth> "text stack is everywhere” 17:32:23 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 17:45:54 *** ubuntu111 has quit IRC 17:51:04 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:54:13 <Wolf01> Mmmh, how bad is it that building roads with drag&drop and disallowed junctions makes difficult to build curves? 17:54:38 <Wolf01> You need to stop in the right place with mouse or the last bit won't be built 17:55:38 <Wolf01> Maybe it's due to my habit of dragging roads and then remove superfluous bits 17:59:10 <Wolf01> Also, would trams get something good from this flag, or I'll keep it only for roads? 18:07:48 <andythenorth> what’s the flag do? 18:07:57 <Wolf01> Disallow junctions 18:08:23 <Wolf01> https://www.packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning oh, nice 18:20:08 <lorran78> i am back sorry :) 18:23:44 <lorran78> how to select language i have language error when using nml 18:30:22 <Alberth> from translated languages, I am guessing? 18:30:51 <Alberth> not relevant, it's just warnings 18:31:01 <Alberth> do you get a .grf file? 18:31:24 <Alberth> lorran78: ^ 18:31:29 <lorran78> progress wait 18:31:37 <lorran78> yes 18:31:46 <lorran78> i have another error 18:31:50 <lorran78> wait 18:31:56 <Alberth> /me waits 18:32:09 <lorran78> [Knmlc ERROR: "src/header.pnml", line 10: Unknown string "STR_GRF_NAME" 18:32:20 <Alberth> ha :) 18:32:43 <lorran78> ←[K nmlc warning: Default language file "lang\english.lng" doesn't exist ←[Knmlc ERROR: "src/header.pnml", line 10: Unknown string "STR_GRF_NAME" Included from: "ogfx-trains.pnml", line 8 (i have all this) 18:33:17 <lorran78> i put the nml in the nml program and pointed to the nml which is in the source folder 18:33:24 <lorran78> (i hope my english is ok :p) 18:33:32 <Alberth> yeah, nml expects a "lang" sub-directory with .lng files (language files) 18:33:44 <lorran78> sorry mistake 18:34:04 <lorran78> i put the nml in the source folder and launch the nml program pointing it :) 18:34:22 <Alberth> you can tell nmlc where to look for the lang directory with a flag iirc 18:34:41 <Alberth> or you set it up such that a lang sub-directory exists :) 18:34:42 <lorran78> yes if i want french (there is one :p) 18:35:00 <lorran78> there is lang folder 18:35:17 <Alberth> it's a train newgrf, doesn't have much text :) 18:35:43 <lorran78> i think so but if i want to have french what cmd to had? 18:36:45 <Alberth> either create a lang folder (filled with lng files) in the directory where you run nmlc, or supply a flag 18:36:53 <lorran78> okay 18:36:55 <lorran78> wait 18:37:00 <Alberth> I don't know the name of the flag, try nmlc --help 18:38:03 <lorran78> when i put lang in nml program folder i had that error : ←[Knmlc ERROR: "lang\english.lng", line 2: Undefined command "VERSION" 18:38:39 <lorran78> and there is this line in the file : STR_GRF_NAME :OpenGFX+ Trains {VERSION} 18:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> these should be filled in by the makefile at some point 18:39:05 <lorran78> i think {} is not ok? 18:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> no, there's a "custom commands" file something 18:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and that should be filled by the makefile with the current revision number or whaterver 18:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause> whenever you type "make" 18:40:26 <lorran78> okay 18:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't use make, you need to do that manually 18:40:57 <lorran78> ok wait 18:41:52 <lorran78> it pre-processing now 18:41:54 <Alberth> looking for the name of that file 18:42:02 <lorran78> same error for all language 18:42:04 <lorran78> okay 18:42:37 <lorran78> no grf after processing or i don't know where it is? 18:42:51 <Alberth> do you have a custom_tags.txt file? 18:43:08 <lorran78> should i put nml program directly in the source folder ? 18:43:14 <lorran78> wait i check 18:43:37 <lorran78> nope no such file 18:43:57 <lorran78> i had that error : 18:44:01 <lorran78> ←[Knmlc ERROR: Path "F:\_Mes Documents\_DL\____OpenTTD\nml-0.4.4-windows-win32\s rc" does not exist (even after case conversions) 18:44:20 <lorran78> i suppose i must create src folder? 18:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> spurious soace inbetween "s rc"? 18:44:45 <lorran78> copy bug :p 18:44:57 <lorran78> there is no space 18:45:27 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdeeyxffw something like this, just 3 lines 18:45:46 <Alberth> I just invented a few names, feel free to change :) 18:45:51 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by translators :: r27692 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2016-12-11 19:45:39 +0100 ) 18:45:52 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Update from Eints: 18:45:53 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: croatian: 25 changes by VoyagerOne 18:45:54 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: english (us): 2 changes by Supercheese 18:45:55 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: russian: 1 change by Lone_Wolf 18:45:56 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...) 18:46:32 <Alberth> always love that, instead of listing the last file too, it says (...) :) 18:47:37 <lorran78> where do i put these line? 18:47:48 <Alberth> custom_tags.txt 18:47:54 <lorran78> new file then? 18:48:02 <lorran78> i can't find it 18:48:34 <Alberth> yeah, it should be included in the processed source, but apparently it's missing, so make a new one 18:49:12 <Alberth> clearly nobody ever tried to build a version from the prcoessed source text :p 18:49:51 <lorran78> where did i put the file? 18:50:06 <Alberth> in the directory where you run nmlc 18:50:25 <Alberth> ie next to the 'lang' folder if you don't use a flag 18:51:00 <lorran78> okay wait 18:51:54 <lorran78> done and testing :p 18:52:17 <lorran78> preprocessing 18:52:34 <lorran78> it's always so long 18:52:45 <lorran78> it's always so long? 18:53:02 <lorran78> error : ←[Knmlc ERROR: Path "F:\_Mes Documents\_DL\____OpenTTD\nml-0.4.4-windows-win32\s rc" does not exist (even after case conversions) 18:53:28 <lorran78> sorry mistake :) 18:53:42 <lorran78> retesting 18:54:38 <lorran78> reretesting lol 18:54:43 <Alberth> probably looks for image files 18:54:51 <lorran78> folder gfx missing :p 18:54:55 <lorran78> now ok :p 18:55:06 <lorran78> okay :) 18:55:41 <Alberth> the nml file is large :) 18:56:24 <Alberth> oh, not that bad, just 500K 18:56:30 <lorran78> :p 18:56:33 <Alberth> .grf is much worse :p 18:56:56 <lorran78> i found the command to choose language but i am not sure :/ 18:56:59 <Alberth> 45M, and that's an old version 18:57:21 <lorran78> hum it will be long !!!!!!!! 18:57:28 <lorran78> bug now no error 18:57:37 <Alberth> .grf has all languages, you can choose language in OpenTTD 18:57:47 <lorran78> ah okay! 19:01:26 <lorran78> okay i wanted to know if there is a url to explain how to make best profit with train 19:01:48 <lorran78> bad english i am searching how to ask :p 19:02:00 <lorran78> lost by good english :/ 19:02:01 <Alberth> is that a problem? 19:02:13 <lorran78> lost my:p 19:02:21 <Alberth> you make loads of money very soon, in OpenTTTD 19:02:22 <lorran78> long time no chat :p 19:02:31 <Alberth> we're open 24/7 :p 19:02:36 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 19:02:44 <lorran78> i used to play old tycoon 19:02:53 <lorran78> i always have my old saves !! 19:02:54 <lorran78> lol 19:02:59 <Alberth> not to mention the zillion other chats at IRC :) 19:03:07 <lorran78> yes :p 19:03:21 <lorran78> it's easier to earn money in openttd? 19:04:09 <Alberth> it has a few more easy ways than tycoon had :) 19:04:37 <lorran78> oh yes another question ! 19:04:48 <Alberth> playing larger maps does a lot 19:05:01 <lorran78> is there a grf to make industries never close? 19:05:13 <lorran78> or better to close when we want :p 19:05:34 <lorran78> i found one to do this but somekind bug :/ 19:05:38 <lorran78> no menu nothing 19:06:23 <Alberth> you can check out opengfx+industries, it may have a few settings, maybe it has a way to disable closing 19:06:41 <lorran78> maybe yes 19:06:42 <Alberth> otherwise you can use a different industry set, for example FIRS 19:07:05 <lorran78> ok 19:07:25 <Alberth> but tbh, I hardly ever have an industry closing on me, give it good service, and it will stay in business, in general 19:07:46 <Alberth> ie station rating at or above 67% or so 19:08:01 <lorran78> i read that somewhere yes :p 19:08:20 <lorran78> but you never have time to make all industries before it's closing :p 19:08:41 <Alberth> that's not a problem, new industries will appear instead 19:08:52 <lorran78> yes of course :p 19:09:49 <lorran78> another question fun maybe :p 19:10:06 <lorran78> is there a way to make a tile where no industries can grow? 19:10:22 <lorran78> to define where we want to see industries (far away from town :p) 19:10:51 <FLHerne> lorran78: There's a tool to buy land (in the landscaping toolbar) 19:10:54 <Alberth> have less towns? :) 19:11:02 <FLHerne> But it's not very useful for your purpose 19:11:24 <Alberth> some industries are specifically constrained to only pop up in towns. 19:11:31 <lorran78> yes i know :p 19:11:40 <lorran78> only few 19:11:54 <lorran78> banks for example 19:11:54 <Alberth> but it's a newgrf thing that you can change (no idea how though) 19:12:07 <Alberth> FIRS has a few more 19:12:13 <lorran78> oh ok 19:12:22 <Alberth> mostly to deliver town goods 19:12:54 <lorran78> hum and when the compiling is done how would i define a new introduction date for train? 19:13:04 <lorran78> vehicule not only train 19:13:05 <lorran78> :) 19:13:50 <Alberth> add "introduction_date: date(...);" to every engine 19:14:08 <Alberth> if you want other vehicles, you need other newgrfs 19:14:56 <Alberth> if you can settle for a little earlier, like 1800 or so, there are more newgrfs available 19:15:02 <lorran78> i don't need more i think but in every engine ? explain more? 19:15:26 <Alberth> you added that text to the uu37 engine now (I think) 19:15:28 <lorran78> i saw such grf yes 19:15:34 <lorran78> yes that is done:p 19:15:43 <lorran78> ah okay ! 19:15:49 <lorran78> (i understand now :p) 19:15:50 <lorran78> lol 19:15:56 <Alberth> if you want any other engine, that engine also needs a different introduction date 19:16:05 <lorran78> i'll test uu37 then i will add other :p 19:16:35 <lorran78> but then where are the real(actual) introduction date write? 19:16:35 <Alberth> and you want to set the "vehicles never expire" flag in your openttd.cfg file, before you start 19:16:49 <lorran78> yes :p 19:17:25 <Alberth> but then where are the real(actual) introduction date write? <-- I don't understand that question 19:17:43 <lorran78> sorry 19:18:01 <Alberth> introduction_date: date(1, 1, 1); is the real introduction date (except for some randomization by OpenTTD) 19:18:13 <Alberth> ie year 1, Januari 1st 19:18:52 <Alberth> ie you write it literally in the grf file 19:18:55 <lorran78> all vehicule has a introduction date in the original version of opengfx+ trains but we can't find it? where is it written? 19:19:09 <Alberth> oh those 19:19:18 <Alberth> it's the same as the default game 19:19:23 <lorran78> oh okay ! 19:19:58 <lorran78> done ! 19:20:00 <Alberth> it's in a table in the OpenTTD source code somewhere 19:20:07 <Alberth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Trains I use this list 19:21:44 <lorran78> thanx :p 19:21:51 <lorran78> i go test a game i'll be back :p 19:22:00 <Alberth> ok, have fun :) 19:24:53 <lorran78> hum no train on year 1 :/ i check if i've done all :p 19:25:23 <Alberth> try year 3 or so 19:25:50 <lorran78> tried :p 19:25:57 <lorran78> year 1000 too 19:26:01 <lorran78> wait i test more 19:26:07 <Alberth> you loaded the correct newgrf? 19:26:22 <Alberth> and started a new game? 19:27:02 <Alberth> did you get a warning that you had to wait for 1900 or so years at game start? 19:27:28 <supermop> i cant think of anything else to get my dad so i am making him a tiny cooling tower 19:27:47 <lorran78> yes for grf correct 19:27:51 <lorran78> yes started new game 19:27:54 <lorran78> wait testing 19:28:54 <lorran78> nope no uu37 :/ 19:29:08 <lorran78> no warning 19:29:21 <lorran78> what is that warning? 19:30:02 <Alberth> try starting a game in 1500 without newgrfs :) 19:30:29 <lorran78> okay 19:30:30 <Alberth> it says something like "there won't be vehicles in another xx years" 19:31:05 <Alberth> but that is not the case now, so apparently there is some vehicle in your start year 19:31:17 <lorran78> i have no warning without grf 19:31:22 <lorran78> strange no? 19:31:34 <Alberth> it is 19:31:44 <Alberth> no idea what happens 19:32:06 <lorran78> i really don't have vehicules lol 19:32:08 <lorran78> hum 19:33:46 <lorran78> tried another time to run game and new game and no warning :p 19:33:58 <lorran78> i have 1.6.1 ver 19:36:49 <Alberth> hmm, maybe I am going mad :p 19:38:06 <lorran78> lol 19:38:24 <lorran78> i never saw that warning since i discover openttd 19:39:18 <lorran78> and what if there is no nml file? 19:39:24 <lorran78> for other grf etc 19:41:02 <Alberth> I hope you are very good at reading hex numbers then :) 19:41:44 <Alberth> there is grfcodec for decoding and encoding grf files, but it speaks hex numbers, basically 19:42:35 <Alberth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Main_Page manual :) 19:44:21 <lorran78> i already tried grfcodec and i am not that good :( 19:44:30 <lorran78> but there is no other way? 19:44:39 <Alberth> another option is to make your own newgrfs 19:45:22 <Alberth> do the tutorial of nml, it explains how to code a vehicle 19:45:56 <Alberth> while normally, you also have your own graphics, it's not actually required, you can use the graphics of the default vehicles 19:46:22 <lorran78> okay for that :) 19:46:41 <Alberth> I think by simply not stating your own graphics, but not sure 19:47:44 <Alberth> if you use the GPL license, you can find a lot of graphics that you can use 19:48:45 <Alberth> that of course means you have to publish your source, if you publish the grf 19:48:58 <lorran78> yes yes 19:49:02 <lorran78> wait baby time lol :p 19:52:09 <Alberth> andythenorth: worried about small inland seas eh? what about small islands? http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/small_island.png 19:55:06 *** glx has joined #openttd 19:55:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 20:02:28 <Wolf01> I'm defeated... tetris with lego boxes again 20:03:23 <Wolf01> Also now I migrated all the 9 mixels series into a single amazon big box 20:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> is that english you are speaking? i don't understand a word 20:04:47 <Wolf01> Who knows? 20:07:52 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 20:07:52 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 20:19:51 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 20:20:01 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 20:22:27 <andythenorth> Alberth: I get that quite a lot :) 20:27:47 <andythenorth> Wolf01: trams get nothing from disallow junctions, but eh, is it easier to have common spec? 20:28:05 <andythenorth> also if junctions are disallowed…how do you do junctions? o_O 20:28:50 <Wolf01> You end up with a straight road to another roadtype 20:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you build highway onramps if the highway roadype disallows junctions? 20:29:58 <Wolf01> I could review it to disallow junctions with other roadtypes, but that's exploitable to build unwanted junctions 20:30:34 <andythenorth> you have to build an occasional junction tile from other type eh? 20:30:49 <Wolf01> If you want to build an intersection with a highway, you can always build it as normal road 20:31:39 <andythenorth> is there a disallow crossings flag? 20:31:52 <Wolf01> Yes 20:31:54 <andythenorth> preventing railroad crossings might be a thing 20:32:42 <Wolf01> We could put some different flags to define all the wanted behaviours of the roadtype 20:34:13 <Wolf01> And if stars and planets will align, provided graphics and state machines, we could have proper highway ramps, highway gates, highways where faster vehicles could overtake 20:36:09 <andythenorth> overtaking :D 20:36:26 <andythenorth> how hard can it be eh? o_O 20:46:07 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 20:49:48 <Wolf01> I'm going to make ottd explode again 20:53:08 <Wolf01> Mmmh, expand town in scenario editor disapoints me 21:03:58 <Wolf01> CmdExpandTown how does it work? I got that makes new roads, expands the town radius and increments the houses cache, but where does it effectively builds the houses? O_O 21:11:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:17:56 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 21:27:08 <Alberth> lots of random walking very quickly in the next loops? 21:27:35 <Wolf01> I noticed that 21:28:22 <Alberth> there is probably a counter that increments or decrements to the next walk 21:28:46 <Alberth> just set it to some high or low number, and regular tile loop does the rest? 21:28:54 <Alberth> nn 21:28:59 <Wolf01> nn 21:29:23 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:30:27 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 21:31:12 <__ln__> i think there's something odd about spotify's timeline indicator when playing this particular album: http://imgur.com/a/lvXJC 21:31:26 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 21:31:42 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 21:31:42 <Wolf01> static const TileIndexDiffC tiles[] = { {0, 1}, {1, 0}, {0, -1}, {-1, 0} }; I'm checking the wrong tiles?, or not enough tiles? 21:32:20 <Wolf01> __ln__, iirc even google did something like that 21:32:45 <Wolf01> Google=youtube 21:36:04 <__ln__> first customization i've seen in spotify though 21:38:14 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 21:38:22 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 21:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i don't think i see what you're seeing 21:40:34 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 21:42:48 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: in your spotify you always have a light saber? 21:46:12 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:47:01 <Wolf01> Yeah, no more towns along tram routes 21:47:09 <Wolf01> I made it 21:51:28 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 22:07:55 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:14:25 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:15:20 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:22:02 *** chomwitt1 has joined #openttd 22:24:15 <lorran78> hum 22:25:20 <lorran78> i noticed that even if i change data in my pnml file when i compile with nml i always have the same grf file... 22:26:17 *** Dackus has quit IRC 22:26:30 <Eddi|zuHause> then you forgot a step 22:27:21 <lorran78> i'll resume what i do tell me if something wrong 22:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> if you change a pnml file, you need to rerun the preprocessing step to get a new nml file, then call nmlc again on that new nml file 22:27:51 <lorran78> wait i read :) 22:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (make should do this automatically, unless the makefile is missing dependencies) 22:28:25 <lorran78> if i see the step "preprocessing" with nml then it's ok? 22:28:26 *** Defaultti has quit IRC 22:28:31 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 22:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, probably not 22:28:43 <lorran78> okay... 22:29:19 <lorran78> i have nml program and source of my modified grf in the same place is it ok? 22:29:21 *** orudge` has quit IRC 22:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what you see 22:29:45 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 22:29:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 22:29:48 <lorran78> the second time i compile it's faster 22:29:53 <glx> maybe nml doesn't depend on pnml in makefile 22:29:54 <lorran78> it's the cache i suppose 22:30:00 <lorran78> oh 22:30:09 <lorran78> how can i check that? 22:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, nml caches images, so it doesn't need to run them again if you only change text 22:30:50 <lorran78> it's cool then :p 22:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: please tell us which commands you run and what their output is 22:31:06 <lorran78> ok 22:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> (put on paste.openttdcoop.org) 22:32:24 *** Dakkus has joined #openttd 22:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: no, i'm just having a hard time identifying that as a lightsabre 22:34:54 <lorran78> i have problem to copy from my dos windows :/ 22:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> rightclick->select? 22:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> windows was always a bit weird with that 22:35:50 *** Defaultti has joined #openttd 22:36:23 <lorran78> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p5rlji8aq 22:36:28 <lorran78> done maybe :p 22:39:40 <Wolf01> As shit happens always, how do I sync a local branch with master without losing all the edits? 22:39:44 *** Dakkus has quit IRC 22:39:44 *** Dakkus has joined #openttd 22:43:03 <lorran78> eddi did u see it? 22:50:59 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:53:17 <lorran78> Ya un francais ici par hasard? :p 22:53:33 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: sorry, i wasn't paying attention for a minute 22:53:41 <lorran78> okay np :p 22:53:48 <lorran78> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p5rlji8aq 22:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: yeah, you're not doing the preprocessing 22:53:53 <lorran78> okay 22:53:55 <lorran78> then how? 22:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: you should install mingw (if you haven't already), and use the "make" program 22:55:12 <lorran78> okay 22:57:14 <lorran78> here ? https://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/latest/download?source=top3_dlp_t5 23:06:20 <lorran78> how do i use it? 23:06:36 <lorran78> i have a windows "mingw installation manager" 23:16:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:16:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:17:08 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 23:17:22 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 23:19:01 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:27:40 <lorran78> eddi are u here? 23:27:56 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 23:28:24 *** threesix- has joined #openttd 23:33:20 <lorran78> how can i use minGW? 23:33:39 <lorran78> i installed make from the installer manager from minGW... 23:34:07 *** threesixty has quit IRC 23:37:34 <lorran78> noone else to help me with my nml program and preprocessing? 23:44:14 <FLHerne_> lorran78: What are you modifying? 23:45:13 <FLHerne_> Generally, cd to the project's base directory and run `make` 23:45:17 *** threesix- has quit IRC 23:58:52 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC