Log for #openttd on 11th December 2016:
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00:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> well, a friend of mine once told me how they were in the military and were moving stuff by train, but they had such low priority, that they practically spent the whole day on some side track in the station, until there was a free space on the line
00:00:47  <Eddi|zuHause> so for a train journey that should take like 2 hours, they spent 2 days
00:02:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that was in pre-unification east germany, so the network was probably a lot more densely used than now
00:02:51  <Eddi|zuHause> since a lot higher fraction of transport was done by train
00:03:01  <Eddi|zuHause> both passenger and freight
00:03:38  <Wolf01> Now I hardly notice freight trains, ages ago there were a lot
00:04:15  <Eddi|zuHause> that's because of the quiet brakes :p
00:06:23  <Wolf01> Also no more gaps on rails :P
00:06:56  <Wolf01> (until they cut the rails to raise the bridge during floods)
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01:42:21  <Wolf01> 'night
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01:50:49  <sim-al2> Aren't they finally moving away from cast-iron brake blocks too?
01:51:22  <sim-al2> The US did beginning in the 60's, but they are still used in Europe
01:52:10  <sim-al2> Cast-iron gives good performance, but causes some irregularity in the wheel tread to develop, which creates a lot of noise
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01:58:07  <Ethereal_Whisper> I just built a huge two-sided station :D
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02:05:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there's still a little resistance to refitting the wagons with the silent brakes, but i'm pretty sure in 10-ish years nobody is going to remember how bad the old brakes were
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02:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the current political approach is to raise the cost for reserving the track if you don't have the silent brakes
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02:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause> in the hope the economy is sorting itself out over time
02:07:10  <Eddi|zuHause> approaches might vary across different european countries
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08:01:51  <andythenorth> o/
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09:41:09  <andythenorth>
09:42:20  <andythenorth> where 2 cargos are produced, the text is misleading
09:42:29  <andythenorth> it always has been, but now it seems worse eh?
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09:42:53  <andythenorth> it’s ‘3,000l and 3t produced per…delivered’
09:43:18  <andythenorth> but that is clunky, and there aren’t enough text stack registers to implement it anyway
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09:46:58  <andythenorth> ‘6 units output per 8t nuts delivered’ also seems ugly
09:52:11  <andythenorth> ‘8t nuts produces 3,000l edible oil and 3t food’
09:52:11  <andythenorth> ?
09:52:40  <andythenorth> can’t be implemented, but is it better?
09:54:09  <Alberth> /me reads
09:55:42  <Alberth> your two cargo productions are confusing with different source amounts
09:57:58  <andythenorth> +1
09:58:12  <Alberth> oh, right, for each output you specify the effect for each input
09:58:16  <andythenorth> yes
09:58:25  <andythenorth> the mechanic is good, the explanation is bad
09:58:40  <Alberth> sounds a bit bulky indeed :)
09:59:28  <Alberth> what exactly fails in the  "8t nuts produces 3,000l edible oil and 3t food" idea ?
09:59:42  <Alberth> ie what is too much in that sentence?
09:59:53  <andythenorth> it’s ok to read
10:00:09  <andythenorth> especially because I am adding some industries where output is not split 1:1
10:00:23  <andythenorth> so “8t iron ore produces 6t iron and 2t slag"
10:00:26  <andythenorth> is useful
10:00:32  <Alberth> yes
10:00:52  <andythenorth> but I can’t implement this using substrings or text stack
10:00:59  <andythenorth> text stack doesn’t have enough registers
10:01:24  <Alberth> that needs 6 registers, and you have less than 6?
10:01:54  <andythenorth> for 3 input cargos, it needs 9 registers
10:01:58  <andythenorth> I have 6
10:02:26  <andythenorth> and I can’t think of any tricks like packing more bytes into the words
10:03:17  * andythenorth checks the count is correct
10:03:29  <Alberth> ie you need more sentences
10:04:29  <andythenorth> why am I using all of a register to store 4 bytes?
10:04:32  <andythenorth> seems wrong
10:04:36  <andythenorth> also why does it work :P
10:04:38  <andythenorth> it shouldn’t
10:04:49  <andythenorth>
10:04:57  <andythenorth> says it needs 4 bytes?
10:05:18  <Alberth> not sure how you get 9 registers
10:05:24  <andythenorth> oh 4 bytes is a dword, nvm
10:05:51  * andythenorth keeps conflating nibbles and bytes 
10:06:18  <andythenorth> 9? There are 3 cargos per line, 3 lines in the maximum case
10:06:23  <andythenorth> each cargo uses a register
10:08:09  <Alberth> think in bits :)
10:08:57  <andythenorth> I could compose all the ‘8t of coal’ stuff in the compile
10:09:10  <andythenorth> but that would increase the number of translations
10:09:18  <andythenorth> would need a lower case version of every cargo, and all the units
10:09:26  <Alberth> yeah, and make translations more complicated
10:09:44  <andythenorth> and it wouldn’t respond to player unit settings
10:09:52  <andythenorth> unless I provided all those too
10:11:05  <Alberth> what if you split it in two parts, "factory takes Xt of Y, Zl of Q, or P sacks of V into production" and "it produces At of N, and Bl of M"
10:13:46  <andythenorth> maybe
10:13:50  * andythenorth tries writing it out
10:14:35  <Alberth> unless the output amounts different between different input cargoes :p
10:14:58  <Alberth> *differ
10:15:00  <andythenorth> they do
10:15:21  <Alberth> hmm, complicated
10:15:48  <Alberth> so drop the precise specification?
10:17:26  <Alberth> tbh I never looked at it, although until now there wasn't much need either, as any input had the same effect
10:18:13  <andythenorth> wonder if there’s some other way to express it
10:18:30  <Alberth> hmm, not entirely true, I did look at  what input cargo was the best
10:18:51  <andythenorth> I’ve often wondered if the industry could show what the current rate is
10:19:07  <andythenorth> i.e. do you have 1, 2 or 3 of the needed inputs in last 3 months
10:19:20  <Alberth> ECS outputs a lot of statistics
10:19:24  <andythenorth> too much
10:19:31  <andythenorth> just as numbers iirc
10:19:38  <Alberth> yeah, and no explanation what the numbers mean :)
10:19:58  <andythenorth> because the text stack doesn’t have enough registers for george I guess
10:20:26  <Alberth> is the number of input cargo the relevant property?
10:20:30  <andythenorth> no
10:20:33  <andythenorth> it’s always ‘per 8t'
10:20:39  <andythenorth> or 8 units
10:20:50  <Alberth> or the amount of "main" input cargo
10:21:07  <andythenorth> 1. ‘deliver coal, iron ore or limestone’
10:21:09  <Alberth> I like the idea of "number of used furnaces" in ECS
10:21:16  <andythenorth> 2. ‘deliver coal or limestone for a production boost’
10:21:23  <andythenorth> 3. ‘deliver limestone for a production boost'
10:22:30  <andythenorth> dunno, doesn’t guide on what’s the best cargo to provide
10:22:31  <Alberth> people find out soon enough :p
10:22:47  <andythenorth> but eh, the best strategy is *always* provide all cargos
10:23:03  <Alberth> I hardly ever do that :p
10:23:13  <andythenorth> me neither
10:23:21  <andythenorth> I provide the one that gets most output per input :P
10:23:41  <andythenorth> based on the numbers in the industry extra text :P
10:23:44  <Alberth> not what BB says you should do?  :)
10:24:31  <andythenorth> not in my last few games, but actually, yes
10:24:36  <andythenorth> whatever BB says :P
10:25:46  <Alberth> "cargo X improves production of cargo Y"
10:26:10  <Alberth> (for main influences only)
10:28:25  <Alberth> "other accepted cargoes also improve production"
10:29:42  <Alberth> will probably fail for cases where there is no obvious favorite
10:29:54  <andythenorth> yup :)
10:30:05  <Alberth> on the other hand, there is not much to say then, either :)
10:30:57  <Alberth> "shit comes out if you deliver other shit", as V would put it :p
10:32:33  <Alberth> "cargo X influences production of cargo Y"   is a bit more specific
10:33:06  <Alberth> "positively correlates"  :p
10:33:08  <andythenorth> I could express it as a ratio, unit independent
10:33:12  <andythenorth> no need for translation then
10:33:16  <andythenorth> ‘6/8’
10:33:19  <andythenorth> or ‘6:8'
10:33:27  <andythenorth> but it’s maybe less accessible to players
10:33:42  <andythenorth> ‘Production per delivery’
10:34:09  <andythenorth> ‘Coal: 2/8’, ‘Iron Ore: 4/8’, ‘Stone: ‘2/8’
10:34:43  <Alberth> yeah, until slag output is different from cokes output or so
10:35:15  <andythenorth> I am reading it as ‘delivered cargo: ratio’
10:35:30  <andythenorth> without specifying how much of _each_ output you get
10:35:33  <andythenorth> dunno
10:35:34  <Alberth> what that sentence says is "try to do Iron Ore first"
10:35:42  <andythenorth> yes
10:36:13  <andythenorth> ‘Each 8t pig iron requires 4t iron ore, 2t coal, 2t stone'
10:36:22  <Alberth> "Factory desires large amounts of Iron Ore"
10:37:24  <andythenorth> it’s very hard to explain the actual mechanic
10:37:38  <Alberth> "Factory favors large amounts of Iron Ore"
10:37:47  <andythenorth> because if you deliver all 3 inputs within 3 months, you get 8t out for every 8t in
10:38:00  <Alberth> so don't, I cannot change it, so it's irrelevant, mostly
10:38:48  <Alberth> "Full production can be reached by providing all 3 cargoes in 3 months"
10:39:05  <Alberth> "all cargoes in 3 months" even
10:39:58  <Alberth> I never care for actual amounts, I just add more trains until I have enough of them
10:40:23  <Alberth> If I need more output cargo, I insert more input cargo
10:40:40  <Alberth> I don't run calculations how much from where etc
10:42:48  <Alberth> you can move the details to the documentation
10:44:42  <Alberth> giving all the numbers makes people do precise calculations how much supplies to deliver
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10:45:13  <Alberth> and you get requests like "there is no vehicle for delivering 21.35 units of supplies"
10:45:30  <Alberth> o/ W
10:45:56  <Wolf01> o/
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10:52:43  <andythenorth> would be pretty trivial to do it in docs
10:53:02  <andythenorth> I think there’s _maybe_ more benefit in showing player ‘all needed cargos have been recently delivered’
10:53:20  <andythenorth> but then again, maybe not also :)
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10:54:44  <Alberth> basically your 'gung ho' indication :)
10:55:23  <andythenorth> similar yes
10:55:44  <andythenorth> can I just use same for secondary industries? o_O
10:55:52  <andythenorth> not all combine cargo, eh
10:55:56  <andythenorth> some just produce
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11:00:04  <andythenorth> ho
11:00:08  <andythenorth> only one string needed
11:00:15  <andythenorth> ‘Currently producing: 0t'
11:00:24  <andythenorth> ‘Currently producing: 2t per 8t delivered'
11:00:39  <andythenorth> and then increase it if more cargos are delivered
11:01:17  <Alberth> could work :)
11:01:37  <Alberth> sort of "1 furnace in use" :)
11:01:49  <andythenorth> yes
11:02:13  <Wolf01> Are you able to produce 2 different things with the same secondary industry depending on what gets delivered? Like the steel mill produce (a lot more) slag when coal is provided, which also boosts production rate?
11:02:32  <andythenorth> I could code that, but I think it’s hard to explain :)
11:02:52  <Alberth> don't, players will soon figure it out :p
11:02:54  <andythenorth> if that’s needed for gameplay, it’s usually a sign that there should be another industry type
11:03:17  <Alberth> it sounds a bit like a different industry set
11:03:39  <Wolf01> I think explaining all isn't needed, you don't explain why you added coal to steel mill instead of processing just the iron ore
11:07:06  <andythenorth> so I’ll move the ratios to the docs, somewhere
11:07:11  <andythenorth> for people who really have to know that stuff
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11:24:37  <Alberth> s/have/want/  :p
11:24:57  <Alberth> well, as usual, you're free to ignore us :)
11:25:04  <Alberth> or change your mind
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11:49:09  <Wolf01> Mmmh, going to mod the shit out of transport fever
11:49:51  <Wolf01> specially this... a double decker bus for 12 passengers always pissed me off
11:50:01  <Wolf01> And the concorde for 24 passengers :P
11:50:17  <Wolf01> Also... daylength
11:50:22  <__ln__> business class
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11:59:25  <Alberth> it's realistic, there is room for about 12 passengers at each bus station, the remaining space is taken by other passengers that don't  leave :)
12:01:18  <Alberth> ok, steam website just plain fails, can only see the thumbnails
12:05:01  <frosch123> hoi
12:05:41  <frosch123> textstack or nrt?
12:07:09  <Wolf01> What's next on nrt?
12:07:40  <frosch123> roadvehicles caring about roadtypes
12:08:13  <Wolf01> Seems interesting
12:08:52  <Wolf01> Are you sure to start working on vehicles before finishing compatibility between roadtypes?
12:09:22  <frosch123> what is to finish there?
12:10:31  <Wolf01> Some subtypes shouldn't allow the other roadtype, crossings, rail crossings, houses
12:11:17  <Wolf01> I could work on that, seems easier than vehicles
12:12:20  <frosch123> sounds good :)
12:13:30  <andythenorth> vehicles
12:13:34  <andythenorth> text stack is blah
12:41:53  * andythenorth has to do shopping and stuff
12:42:00  <andythenorth> I can make a vehicle grf later probably
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14:48:29  <Alberth> andy, galvanising plant, and electric arc furnace do look very similar in-game :)
14:58:50  <Wolf01> I think the comma after galvanising plant is wrong :P
15:00:07  <Alberth> s/plant,/plant/   :)
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15:03:29  <Wolf01> I'm not a fan of the Oxford comma, as I'm not always sure when to use it, but this case looks really funny with the wrong placed comma :D
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15:33:51  <lorran78> hello
15:34:17  <frosch123> we need a 456 guy
15:34:36  <lorran78> i have a question plz?
15:35:08  <lorran78> (est-ce qu'il y a des francais ici?)
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15:37:37  <lorran78> i wanted to know if it's possible to change release date of trains in a grf because i wanted to have a lot of time to make grow my town and have already the trains (for example not year 1880 but year 1)
15:38:17  <frosch123> get the source of the grf, and change it
15:41:02  <frosch123> on the other hand, why do you care about the year?
15:41:14  <frosch123> enable "vehicles never expire" and start in year 2500
15:41:23  <frosch123> then you can freely choose which engines to build
15:44:04  <lorran78> sorry i was afk wait i read ur answer
15:45:06  <lorran78> hum i care about year because of buildings changind and i wanted to see the old one and finish my own transport system :)
15:45:24  <lorran78> and i don't like a lot monorail :)
15:51:53  <lorran78> i tried to decompile the opengrf+ but i didn't find the year release to change it and don't know how to recompile?
15:57:34  <Alberth> opengfx+trains source is available, can be compiled using nml
15:58:06  <Alberth> the point of "vehicles never expire" is that you keep all vehicles, ie no need to use monorail
15:59:57  <Alberth> even at 2500, you still have all vehicles that existed before
16:01:11  <lorran78> hum okay but the buildings will be modern i want to keep old building and see that changing :)
16:02:31  <lorran78> and i tried to use nml but i don't understand where and how to change release date of vehicules (even in hex i don't find the year ...)
16:04:20  <lorran78> but actually i prefer seeing the trains arriving on sale and change them so changing the year of release is my best choice
16:04:58  <lorran78> i can't find the name of trains neither in grf
16:07:51  <Alberth> nml can use hex numbers, but usually it's plain text
16:08:32  <Alberth>
16:09:15  <Alberth> please change the name and the grfid if you change it, to avoid confusion
16:10:26  <lorran78> ok
16:11:00  <lorran78> can u explain me all step to see if i make something wrong?
16:11:19  <lorran78> i downloaded the lastest version of ogfx-trains
16:11:30  <Alberth> source ?
16:11:45  <lorran78> hum sorry not the source wait :)
16:12:28  <Alberth> preprocessed source is likely the simplest, unless you have a linux system with the usual development tools at it
16:13:52  <lorran78> it's ok i took ogfx-trains-0.3.0-source.tar.gz
16:14:02  <lorran78> uncompressed it :)
16:14:16  <Alberth> open the nml file with a text editor
16:14:22  <Alberth> find "grfid"
16:14:54  <lorran78> which nml file?
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16:15:03  <lorran78> *.pnml?
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16:16:18  <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: during the "make" process, the .pnml files are combined into an .nml file
16:16:20  <Alberth> oh, you have unprocessed source? that's ok too, but it needs more tools to build
16:16:55  <lorran78> ok i tried to understand all that :)
16:17:03  <Alberth> grfid : "OG+1";   <-- this line, in header.pnml   in the unprocessed source
16:17:29  <lorran78> ok i found it
16:17:41  <Eddi|zuHause> the grfid can be any 4-letter string
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16:17:59  <Alberth>   that's the latest build
16:18:11  <lorran78> OG+0 for me year 0 :p
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16:18:17  <lorran78> is it ok?
16:18:31  <Eddi|zuHause> the usual convention is to use your initials as the first two letters
16:18:42  <lorran78> oh okay
16:19:22  <lorran78> then it's ok now i put 4 characters
16:19:28  <lorran78> then i save it?
16:20:20  <Alberth> never hurts to save it :)
16:20:22  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think I should check also the already present roadtype for flags, and not only the one I'm placing :/
16:20:26  <Alberth>
16:20:38  <Alberth> trains don't seem to have a new start year
16:20:46  <Alberth> let me look how to change that
16:21:12  <lorran78> oh i see :)
16:22:31  <Alberth> you should have a similar section for each engine
16:23:21  <Alberth> add a      introduction_date: date(yyyy, mm, dd)   line in the properties
16:23:37  <Alberth>    properties are listed here
16:24:19  <lorran78> how to do it?
16:24:42  <Alberth> got the part of the file with such a section?
16:25:16  <Alberth> "uu37"    <-- should be unique enough to find the section
16:26:14  <lorran78> okay wait
16:26:38  <Wolf01> Is there a way to count road bits?
16:26:56  <Alberth> item(FEAT_TRAINS, uu37, 14) {              that likely also works as search term
16:26:57  <lorran78> like that : item(FEAT_TRAINS, uu37, 14) {     property {         sprite_id:              SPRITE_ID_NEW_TRAIN;    // We have our own sprite         misc_flags:             bitmask(TRAIN_FLAG_FLIP)         introduction_date:      date(yyyy, mm, dd);     }     ENGINE_GRAPHICS_BLOCK(uu37_indepot) }
16:27:36  <Alberth> Wolf01:  there is a count-number-of-set-bits  in src/core/bitmath  or so
16:27:48  <Wolf01> CountBits
16:28:02  <lorran78> i can use TAB in the file?
16:28:08  <Wolf01> I think it's safe to assume it's not a junction when bits are <=2
16:28:38  <Wolf01> (the number of bits)
16:28:38  <Alberth> lorran78:   yep, not insert   "introduction_date: date(1500, 1, 1);"  after "property {"
16:28:47  <Alberth> *now insert
16:28:53  <Alberth> TABs are no problem
16:29:39  <lorran78> before property or after sorry i am not sure?
16:29:45  <Alberth> after
16:29:52  <lorran78> okay then it's ok
16:30:15  <Alberth> ie     property { introduction_date: date(1500, 1, 1); sprite_id: ....
16:30:16  <lorran78> ur numbers are example?
16:30:22  <Wolf01> Nice, I can build junctions but not curves O_o
16:30:25  <lorran78> or i must set 1500?
16:30:34  <lorran78> if i want of course :p
16:30:45  <Alberth> no idea, let's see what the properties page says :)
16:31:18  <Alberth> Valid range for yyyy is 0 ... 5000000.    <--   take your valid year :)
16:31:45  <lorran78> i must put a ";" after all properties?
16:32:04  <Alberth> yes, it terminates a property
16:32:07  <lorran78> okay
16:32:18  <lorran78> then i think it's okay now :)
16:32:27  <lorran78> yyyy for using 0 to 9999?
16:32:31  <Alberth> good, do you have the nml compiler?
16:32:45  <Alberth> (05:31:18 PM) Alberth: Valid range for yyyy is 0 ... 5000000.    <--   take your valid year :)
16:33:12  <lorran78> oh okay if i start from year 0 i put 0 then?
16:34:05  <lorran78> i have this one : nml-0.4.4-windows-win32
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16:34:49  <Alberth> year 0 sounds a bit early, but whatever you like :)
16:34:58  <Alberth> ok
16:35:02  <lorran78> okay maybe it's a test for me now :p
16:35:31  <Alberth> at the command shell, run   nmlc ogfxfile.nml
16:35:52  <lorran78> so i save it :p
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16:36:08  <lorran78> okay wait
16:36:19  <Alberth> where "nmlc" is the nml compiler, and ogxfile.nml  is the name of the opengfx+trains nml file that you just saved :)
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16:37:22  <andythenorth> frosch123: so what’s best?  A test grf in the nml fork?  Or a branch of Road Hog with NRT support?
16:37:38  <Wolf01> Please, kill me with fire... I said n-bits <= 2 is not a junction, I was checking for <= 2 to be a junction :|
16:38:00  <andythenorth> Wolf01: devloloping :D
16:38:09  <Wolf01> Eh, lol is not enough here
16:38:11  <lorran78> i don't have ogxfile.nml (i save the header.pnml with my grfid and engine_uu37.pnml with this change
16:38:14  <frosch123> andythenorth: since we only have silly types like red and yellow, i guess something in the nml fork
16:38:29  <andythenorth> ok I’ll copy some sprites in there
16:38:52  <andythenorth> oh I’ll patch the existing example RV grf
16:38:54  <andythenorth> ok
16:39:08  <lorran78> too many questions in same place lol
16:40:51  <lorran78> i use ogfx-trains-0.3.0-source so if i understand good i must compile pnml to nml?
16:41:10  <Alberth> ah, you have unprocessed source
16:41:19  <andythenorth> usually a makefile does that
16:41:32  <Alberth> then you need   make, and the c compiler too
16:42:48  <lorran78> maybe i'll use the processed source then :p
16:42:50  <lorran78> wait
16:44:51  <Alberth> I'd hope that has a .nml file :)
16:45:48  <lorran78> i've done same in the processed source
16:46:16  <lorran78> hum don't seem to have nml neither :/
16:46:37  <lorran78> which c compiler dl?
16:46:45  <Alberth> how silly :(
16:47:03  <Alberth> gcc, normally, as it only does C pre-processing
16:47:38  <Alberth> *.pnml  are collected into a .nml file, with the usual #include mechanism of C/C++
16:48:12  <Alberth> together with expanding the #define macros
16:48:35  <lorran78> where to download it?
16:48:38  <frosch123> <- you can get the precompiled nml from here
16:48:42  <frosch123> ogfx-trains.nml
16:48:45  <lorran78> hum
16:48:49  <lorran78> wait
16:49:18  <frosch123> <- that tells you about how to install and run nml
16:49:49  <lorran78> i try this one now
16:50:13  <Sylf> that tutorial doesn't mention anything about compiling pnml using gnu make and gcc
16:50:45  <Sylf> which some people probably see as knowledge gap that's not covered
16:50:53  <Alberth> it doesn't indeed, although I would expect it to be written somewhere
16:51:49  <lorran78> oh sorry i see the nml !
16:51:55  <lorran78> it's not in source :p
16:52:18  <andythenorth> ok so frosch123 I need a roadtypetable, and road_type prop
16:52:25  <andythenorth> I won’t do any cb stuff yet
16:52:28  <Alberth> technically, the c pre-processing is not part of nml, it's just useful for larger projects
16:52:59  <Alberth> and not everybody uses it
16:53:02  * andythenorth thinks the c pre-processing is a bit of a misleading dead end, but eh, that’s just me :)
16:53:11  <Alberth> Sylf:  ^
16:53:11  <andythenorth> it was useful to learn it, and useful to stop using it
16:53:12  <lorran78> i have the ogfx-trains.nml
16:53:23  <Sylf> :P
16:53:25  <Alberth> progress!  :)
16:53:32  <lorran78> i put the nml in the nml program wait
16:53:47  <andythenorth> nml needs some kind of string replacement using ${} type convention or similar, with a simple loop syntax
16:54:02  <andythenorth> and a global constants table maybe
16:54:35  <frosch123> Sylf: Alberth <- there is also a full guide to install a vm for make and stuff
16:54:40  <frosch123> but it involes a lot of work
16:54:41  <andythenorth> actually /me has no idea what it needs, I have my own thing
16:54:41  <Alberth> I tried that, but something didn't work with that
16:55:20  <Alberth> ^ andy, about adding a pre-processor to nml
16:55:23  <Sylf> I've written my own guide on how to use cygwin to compile pnml :P
16:55:51  <andythenorth> the roadtypetable just makes it possible to refer to the labels as constants?
16:56:08  * andythenorth has never understood the railtype stuff, other people implemented it for me
16:56:38  <lorran78> something wrong when compiling
16:57:01  <lorran78> i put the nml in the source where folder src is
16:57:11  <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess you need a roadtypetable with ROAD and the other labels from the testgrf
16:57:14  <andythenorth> yes
16:57:16  <andythenorth> doing it
16:57:18  <frosch123> and then the road_type property for the vehicle
16:57:27  <frosch123> mind, there are also tramtypetable and tram_type
16:57:31  <andythenorth> yes :)
16:57:39  <lorran78> afk
16:57:40  <andythenorth> there’s some compatibility thing in the table eh?  a list
16:57:47  * andythenorth will worry about that later
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16:57:57  <frosch123> compatibility is in the roadtype grf, not in the vehicle grf
16:58:00  <andythenorth> it’s funny implementing something I don’t understand :P
16:59:15  <andythenorth> oh the list is a name assignment
16:59:28  <frosch123> sounds familar, like extending yapf cache for roadtypes :)
16:59:33  <Wolf01> prototype stage, what do you think?
17:00:46  <frosch123> oh, that's what you meant with junctions
17:00:58  <lorran78> re
17:01:02  <lorran78> i have this error
17:01:02  <frosch123> i thought you only meant disallowing tram on certain roads
17:01:07  <lorran78> wait
17:02:20  <Wolf01> That's another flag ;)
17:03:01  <Wolf01> For that I'm undecided if allowing only tram crossing or disallowing tram entirely
17:05:00  <Wolf01> Both are easy, for the first one I should just check if tram and road have at least one bit in common and then return error if true, for the second just check the flag
17:05:48  <Wolf01> This prototype is for freeways/highways
17:07:11  <andythenorth>
17:07:20  <andythenorth> frosch123: choking on ‘ROAD’ at L152
17:07:34  <andythenorth> unknown identifier, suggests my roadtypetable is not implemented correctly?
17:07:48  <Wolf01> Try "ROAD"?
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17:07:55  <andythenorth> nah that’s a literal
17:07:56  <andythenorth> :)
17:07:58  * andythenorth tries anyway
17:08:12  <Wolf01> string(ROAD)?
17:08:21  <Wolf01> Or what was the right function name
17:08:24  <andythenorth> nah, it’s a constant
17:08:34  <andythenorth> the roadtypetable should make those constants available, afaik
17:08:36  <andythenorth> dunno
17:09:00  <andythenorth> I implemented roadtypetable by copying railtypetable
17:09:05  <Wolf01> Maybe it collides with something else
17:09:15  <Wolf01> Does it work with RED_ or YELL=
17:09:16  <Wolf01> ?
17:09:29  <andythenorth> no
17:09:35  <andythenorth> tried it :)
17:11:08  <Alberth> frosch:  very extensive manual :)
17:11:09  <Wolf01> Maybe it doesn't like custom types
17:11:31  <andythenorth> I just found some debug print handling, maybe I can use that
17:12:00  <frosch123> andythenorth: i would just compare with working train newgrf :)
17:12:30  <andythenorth> -s is a useful nml flag eh
17:13:09  <Alberth> if you can read a stack-dump :p
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17:13:34  <andythenorth> it’s python eh
17:13:48  <frosch123> andythenorth: const_list is missing road and tram table
17:13:52  <andythenorth> I am trying to make debug_print() do something
17:13:55  <andythenorth> oh ok
17:14:05  * andythenorth fixes that
17:14:33  <frosch123> <- something like that
17:15:06  <andythenorth> sorted
17:17:21  <lorran78> eat time later :p
17:18:12  <andythenorth> frosch123: I pushed, one of each truck for ROAD, BLUE, YELLOW
17:18:26  <andythenorth> available from 1926 eh
17:18:57  <Wolf01> Could I use {STRING1} in error messages?
17:20:44  <frosch123> iirc the commandcost also has dparams
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17:23:18  <Wolf01> Seem not
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17:23:48  <Wolf01> I could write a generic error message, "... road type doesn't allow junctions"
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17:24:03  <frosch123> oh, it only has a newgrf text stack, how funny :)
17:25:21  <andythenorth> "text stack is everywhere”
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17:54:13  <Wolf01> Mmmh, how bad is it that building roads with drag&drop and disallowed junctions makes difficult to build curves?
17:54:38  <Wolf01> You need to stop in the right place with mouse or the last bit won't be built
17:55:38  <Wolf01> Maybe it's due to my habit of dragging roads and then remove superfluous bits
17:59:10  <Wolf01> Also, would trams get something good from this flag, or I'll keep it only for roads?
18:07:48  <andythenorth> what’s the flag  do?
18:07:57  <Wolf01> Disallow junctions
18:08:23  <Wolf01> oh, nice
18:20:08  <lorran78> i am back sorry :)
18:23:44  <lorran78> how to select language i have language error when using nml
18:30:22  <Alberth> from translated languages, I am guessing?
18:30:51  <Alberth> not relevant, it's just warnings
18:31:01  <Alberth> do you get a .grf file?
18:31:24  <Alberth> lorran78: ^
18:31:29  <lorran78> progress wait
18:31:37  <lorran78> yes
18:31:46  <lorran78> i have another error
18:31:50  <lorran78> wait
18:31:56  <Alberth> /me waits
18:32:09  <lorran78> [Knmlc ERROR: "src/header.pnml", line 10: Unknown string "STR_GRF_NAME"
18:32:20  <Alberth> ha :)
18:32:43  <lorran78> ←[K nmlc warning: Default language file "lang\english.lng" doesn't exist ←[Knmlc ERROR: "src/header.pnml", line 10: Unknown string "STR_GRF_NAME" Included from: "ogfx-trains.pnml", line 8 (i have all this)
18:33:17  <lorran78> i put the nml in the nml program and pointed to the nml which is in the source folder
18:33:24  <lorran78> (i hope my english is ok :p)
18:33:32  <Alberth> yeah, nml expects a "lang" sub-directory with .lng files (language files)
18:33:44  <lorran78> sorry mistake
18:34:04  <lorran78> i put the nml in the source folder and launch the nml program pointing it :)
18:34:22  <Alberth> you can tell nmlc where to look for the lang directory with a flag iirc
18:34:41  <Alberth> or you set it up such that a lang sub-directory exists :)
18:34:42  <lorran78> yes if i want french (there is one :p)
18:35:00  <lorran78> there is lang folder
18:35:17  <Alberth> it's a train newgrf, doesn't have much text :)
18:35:43  <lorran78> i think so but if i want to have french what cmd to had?
18:36:45  <Alberth> either create a lang folder (filled with lng files)  in the directory where you run nmlc,  or supply a flag
18:36:53  <lorran78> okay
18:36:55  <lorran78> wait
18:37:00  <Alberth> I don't know the name of the flag, try    nmlc --help
18:38:03  <lorran78> when i put lang in nml program folder i had that error : ←[Knmlc ERROR: "lang\english.lng", line 2: Undefined command "VERSION"
18:38:39  <lorran78> and there is this line in the file : STR_GRF_NAME                                                    :OpenGFX+ Trains {VERSION}
18:39:04  <Eddi|zuHause> these should be filled in by the makefile at some point
18:39:05  <lorran78> i think {} is not ok?
18:39:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no, there's a "custom commands" file something
18:40:03  <Eddi|zuHause> and that should be filled by the makefile with the current revision number or whaterver
18:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause> whenever you type "make"
18:40:26  <lorran78> okay
18:40:32  <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't use make, you need to do that manually
18:40:57  <lorran78> ok wait
18:41:52  <lorran78> it pre-processing now
18:41:54  <Alberth> looking for the name of that file
18:42:02  <lorran78> same error for all language
18:42:04  <lorran78> okay
18:42:37  <lorran78> no grf after processing or i don't know where it is?
18:42:51  <Alberth> do you have a custom_tags.txt  file?
18:43:08  <lorran78> should i put nml program directly in the source folder ?
18:43:14  <lorran78> wait i check
18:43:37  <lorran78> nope no such file
18:43:57  <lorran78> i had that error :
18:44:01  <lorran78> ←[Knmlc ERROR: Path "F:\_Mes Documents\_DL\____OpenTTD\nml-0.4.4-windows-win32\s rc" does not exist (even after case conversions)
18:44:20  <lorran78> i suppose i must create src folder?
18:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause> spurious soace inbetween "s rc"?
18:44:45  <lorran78> copy bug :p
18:44:57  <lorran78> there is no space
18:45:27  <Alberth>   something like this, just 3 lines
18:45:46  <Alberth> I just invented a few names, feel free to change :)
18:45:51  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by translators :: r27692 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2016-12-11 19:45:39 +0100 )
18:45:52  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Update from Eints:
18:45:53  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: croatian: 25 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:54  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: english (us): 2 changes by Supercheese
18:45:55  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: russian: 1 change by Lone_Wolf
18:45:56  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
18:46:32  <Alberth> always love that, instead of listing the last file too, it says (...)    :)
18:47:37  <lorran78> where do i put these line?
18:47:48  <Alberth> custom_tags.txt
18:47:54  <lorran78> new file then?
18:48:02  <lorran78> i can't find it
18:48:34  <Alberth> yeah, it should be included in the processed source, but apparently it's missing, so make a new one
18:49:12  <Alberth> clearly nobody ever tried to build a version from the prcoessed source text :p
18:49:51  <lorran78> where did i put the file?
18:50:06  <Alberth> in the directory where you run nmlc
18:50:25  <Alberth> ie next to the 'lang' folder if you don't use a flag
18:51:00  <lorran78> okay wait
18:51:54  <lorran78> done and testing :p
18:52:17  <lorran78> preprocessing
18:52:34  <lorran78> it's always so long
18:52:45  <lorran78> it's always so long?
18:53:02  <lorran78> error : ←[Knmlc ERROR: Path "F:\_Mes Documents\_DL\____OpenTTD\nml-0.4.4-windows-win32\s rc" does not exist (even after case conversions)
18:53:28  <lorran78> sorry mistake :)
18:53:42  <lorran78> retesting
18:54:38  <lorran78> reretesting lol
18:54:43  <Alberth> probably looks for image files
18:54:51  <lorran78> folder gfx missing :p
18:54:55  <lorran78> now ok :p
18:55:06  <lorran78> okay :)
18:55:41  <Alberth> the nml file is large :)
18:56:24  <Alberth> oh, not that bad, just 500K
18:56:30  <lorran78> :p
18:56:33  <Alberth> .grf is much worse :p
18:56:56  <lorran78> i found the command to choose language but i am not sure :/
18:56:59  <Alberth> 45M, and that's an old version
18:57:21  <lorran78> hum it will be long !!!!!!!!
18:57:28  <lorran78> bug now no error
18:57:37  <Alberth> .grf has all languages, you can choose language in OpenTTD
18:57:47  <lorran78> ah okay!
19:01:26  <lorran78> okay i wanted to know if there is a url to explain how to make best profit with train
19:01:48  <lorran78> bad english i am searching how to ask :p
19:02:00  <lorran78> lost by good english :/
19:02:01  <Alberth> is that a problem?
19:02:13  <lorran78> lost my:p
19:02:21  <Alberth> you make loads of money very soon, in OpenTTTD
19:02:22  <lorran78> long time no chat :p
19:02:31  <Alberth> we're open 24/7 :p
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19:02:44  <lorran78> i used to play old tycoon
19:02:53  <lorran78> i always have my old saves !!
19:02:54  <lorran78> lol
19:02:59  <Alberth> not to mention the zillion other chats at IRC :)
19:03:07  <lorran78> yes :p
19:03:21  <lorran78> it's easier to earn money in openttd?
19:04:09  <Alberth> it has a few more easy ways than tycoon had :)
19:04:37  <lorran78> oh yes another question !
19:04:48  <Alberth> playing larger maps does a lot
19:05:01  <lorran78> is there a grf to make industries never close?
19:05:13  <lorran78> or better to close when we want :p
19:05:34  <lorran78> i found one to do this but somekind bug :/
19:05:38  <lorran78> no menu nothing
19:06:23  <Alberth> you can check out opengfx+industries, it may have a few settings, maybe it has a way to disable closing
19:06:41  <lorran78> maybe yes
19:06:42  <Alberth> otherwise you can use a different industry set, for example FIRS
19:07:05  <lorran78> ok
19:07:25  <Alberth> but tbh, I hardly ever have an industry closing on me, give it good service, and it will stay in business, in general
19:07:46  <Alberth> ie station rating at or above 67% or so
19:08:01  <lorran78> i read that somewhere yes :p
19:08:20  <lorran78> but you never have time to make all industries before it's closing :p
19:08:41  <Alberth> that's not a problem, new industries will appear instead
19:08:52  <lorran78> yes of course :p
19:09:49  <lorran78> another question fun maybe :p
19:10:06  <lorran78> is there a way to make a tile where no industries can grow?
19:10:22  <lorran78> to define where we want to see industries (far away from town :p)
19:10:51  <FLHerne> lorran78: There's a tool to buy land (in the landscaping toolbar)
19:10:54  <Alberth> have less towns?  :)
19:11:02  <FLHerne> But it's not very useful for your purpose
19:11:24  <Alberth> some industries are specifically constrained to only pop up in towns.
19:11:31  <lorran78> yes i know :p
19:11:40  <lorran78> only few
19:11:54  <lorran78> banks for example
19:11:54  <Alberth> but it's a newgrf thing that you can change (no idea how though)
19:12:07  <Alberth> FIRS has a few more
19:12:13  <lorran78> oh ok
19:12:22  <Alberth> mostly to deliver town goods
19:12:54  <lorran78> hum and when the compiling is done how would i define a new introduction date for train?
19:13:04  <lorran78> vehicule not only train
19:13:05  <lorran78> :)
19:13:50  <Alberth> add "introduction_date: date(...);" to every engine
19:14:08  <Alberth> if you want other vehicles, you need other newgrfs
19:14:56  <Alberth> if you can settle for a little earlier, like 1800 or so, there are more newgrfs available
19:15:02  <lorran78> i don't need more i think but in every engine ? explain more?
19:15:26  <Alberth> you added that text to the uu37 engine now (I think)
19:15:28  <lorran78> i saw such grf yes
19:15:34  <lorran78> yes that is done:p
19:15:43  <lorran78> ah okay !
19:15:49  <lorran78> (i understand now :p)
19:15:50  <lorran78> lol
19:15:56  <Alberth> if you want any other engine, that engine also needs a different introduction date
19:16:05  <lorran78> i'll test uu37 then i will add other :p
19:16:35  <lorran78> but then where are the real(actual) introduction date write?
19:16:35  <Alberth> and you want to set the "vehicles never expire" flag in your openttd.cfg file, before you start
19:16:49  <lorran78> yes :p
19:17:25  <Alberth> but then where are the real(actual) introduction date write?  <-- I don't understand that question
19:17:43  <lorran78> sorry
19:18:01  <Alberth> introduction_date: date(1, 1, 1);     is the real introduction date (except for some randomization by OpenTTD)
19:18:13  <Alberth> ie year 1, Januari 1st
19:18:52  <Alberth> ie you write it literally in the grf file
19:18:55  <lorran78> all vehicule has a introduction date in the original version of opengfx+ trains but we can't find it? where is it written?
19:19:09  <Alberth> oh those
19:19:18  <Alberth> it's the same as the default game
19:19:23  <lorran78> oh okay !
19:19:58  <lorran78> done !
19:20:00  <Alberth> it's in a table in the OpenTTD source code somewhere
19:20:07  <Alberth>   I use this list
19:21:44  <lorran78> thanx :p
19:21:51  <lorran78> i go test a game i'll be back :p
19:22:00  <Alberth> ok, have fun :)
19:24:53  <lorran78> hum no train on year 1 :/ i check if i've done all :p
19:25:23  <Alberth> try year 3 or so
19:25:50  <lorran78> tried :p
19:25:57  <lorran78> year 1000 too
19:26:01  <lorran78> wait i test more
19:26:07  <Alberth> you loaded the correct newgrf?
19:26:22  <Alberth> and started a new game?
19:27:02  <Alberth> did you get a warning that you had to wait for 1900 or so years at game start?
19:27:28  <supermop> i cant think of anything else to get my dad so i am making him a tiny cooling tower
19:27:47  <lorran78> yes for grf correct
19:27:51  <lorran78> yes started new game
19:27:54  <lorran78> wait testing
19:28:54  <lorran78> nope no uu37 :/
19:29:08  <lorran78> no warning
19:29:21  <lorran78> what is that warning?
19:30:02  <Alberth> try starting a game in 1500 without newgrfs :)
19:30:29  <lorran78> okay
19:30:30  <Alberth> it says something like "there won't be vehicles in another xx years"
19:31:05  <Alberth> but that is not the case now, so apparently there is some vehicle in your start year
19:31:17  <lorran78> i have no warning without grf
19:31:22  <lorran78> strange no?
19:31:34  <Alberth> it is
19:31:44  <Alberth> no idea what happens
19:32:06  <lorran78> i really don't have vehicules lol
19:32:08  <lorran78> hum
19:33:46  <lorran78> tried another time to run game and new game and no warning :p
19:33:58  <lorran78> i have 1.6.1 ver
19:36:49  <Alberth> hmm, maybe I am going mad :p
19:38:06  <lorran78> lol
19:38:24  <lorran78> i never saw that warning since i discover openttd
19:39:18  <lorran78> and what if there is no nml file?
19:39:24  <lorran78> for other grf etc
19:41:02  <Alberth> I hope you are very good at reading hex numbers then :)
19:41:44  <Alberth> there is grfcodec for decoding and encoding grf files, but it speaks hex numbers, basically
19:42:35  <Alberth>   manual :)
19:44:21  <lorran78> i already tried grfcodec and i am not that good :(
19:44:30  <lorran78> but there is no other way?
19:44:39  <Alberth> another option is to make your own newgrfs
19:45:22  <Alberth> do the tutorial of nml, it explains how to code a vehicle
19:45:56  <Alberth> while normally, you also have your own graphics, it's not actually required, you can use the graphics of the default vehicles
19:46:22  <lorran78> okay for that :)
19:46:41  <Alberth> I think by simply not stating your own graphics, but not sure
19:47:44  <Alberth> if you use the GPL license, you can find a lot of graphics that you can use
19:48:45  <Alberth> that of course means you have to publish your source, if you publish the grf
19:48:58  <lorran78> yes yes
19:49:02  <lorran78> wait baby time lol :p
19:52:09  <Alberth> andythenorth: worried about small inland seas eh?  what about small islands?
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20:02:28  <Wolf01> I'm defeated... tetris with lego boxes again
20:03:23  <Wolf01> Also now I migrated all the 9 mixels series into a single amazon big box
20:04:26  <Eddi|zuHause> is that english you are speaking? i don't understand a word
20:04:47  <Wolf01> Who knows?
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20:22:27  <andythenorth> Alberth: I get that quite a lot :)
20:27:47  <andythenorth> Wolf01: trams get nothing from disallow junctions, but eh, is it easier to have common spec?
20:28:05  <andythenorth> also if junctions are disallowed…how do you do junctions? o_O
20:28:50  <Wolf01> You end up with a straight road to another roadtype
20:29:31  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you build highway onramps if the highway roadype disallows junctions?
20:29:58  <Wolf01> I could review it to disallow junctions with other roadtypes, but that's exploitable to build unwanted junctions
20:30:34  <andythenorth> you have to build an occasional junction tile from other type eh?
20:30:49  <Wolf01> If you want to build an intersection with a highway, you can always build it as normal road
20:31:39  <andythenorth> is there a disallow crossings flag?
20:31:52  <Wolf01> Yes
20:31:54  <andythenorth> preventing railroad crossings might be a thing
20:32:42  <Wolf01> We could put some different flags to define all the wanted behaviours of the roadtype
20:34:13  <Wolf01> And if stars and planets will align, provided graphics and state machines, we could have proper highway ramps, highway gates, highways where faster vehicles could overtake
20:36:09  <andythenorth> overtaking :D
20:36:26  <andythenorth> how hard can it be eh? o_O
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20:49:48  <Wolf01> I'm going to make ottd explode again
20:53:08  <Wolf01> Mmmh, expand town in scenario editor disapoints me
21:03:58  <Wolf01> CmdExpandTown how does it work? I got that makes new roads, expands the town radius and increments the houses cache, but where does it effectively builds the houses? O_O
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21:27:08  <Alberth> lots of random walking very quickly in the next loops?
21:27:35  <Wolf01> I noticed that
21:28:22  <Alberth> there is probably a counter that increments or decrements to the next walk
21:28:46  <Alberth> just set it to some high or low number, and regular tile loop does the rest?
21:28:54  <Alberth> nn
21:28:59  <Wolf01> nn
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21:31:12  <__ln__> i think there's something odd about spotify's timeline indicator when playing this particular album:
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21:31:42  <Wolf01> static const TileIndexDiffC tiles[] = { {0, 1}, {1, 0}, {0, -1}, {-1, 0} }; I'm checking the wrong tiles?, or not enough tiles?
21:32:20  <Wolf01> __ln__, iirc even google did something like that
21:32:45  <Wolf01> Google=youtube
21:36:04  <__ln__> first customization i've seen in spotify though
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21:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i don't think i see what you're seeing
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21:42:48  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: in your spotify you always have a light saber?
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21:47:01  <Wolf01> Yeah, no more towns along tram routes
21:47:09  <Wolf01> I made it
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22:24:15  <lorran78> hum
22:25:20  <lorran78> i noticed that even if i change data in my pnml file when i compile with nml i always have the same grf file...
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22:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> then you forgot a step
22:27:21  <lorran78> i'll resume what i do tell me if something wrong
22:27:39  <Eddi|zuHause> if you change a pnml file, you need to rerun the preprocessing step to get a new nml file, then call nmlc again on that new nml file
22:27:51  <lorran78> wait i read :)
22:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause> (make should do this automatically, unless the makefile is missing dependencies)
22:28:25  <lorran78> if i see the step "preprocessing" with nml then it's ok?
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22:28:37  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, probably not
22:28:43  <lorran78> okay...
22:29:19  <lorran78> i have nml program and source of my modified grf in the same place is it ok?
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22:29:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what you see
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22:29:48  <lorran78> the second time i compile it's faster
22:29:53  <glx> maybe nml doesn't depend on pnml in makefile
22:29:54  <lorran78> it's the cache i suppose
22:30:00  <lorran78> oh
22:30:09  <lorran78> how can i check that?
22:30:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, nml caches images, so it doesn't need to run them again if you only change text
22:30:50  <lorran78> it's cool then :p
22:30:57  <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: please tell us which commands you run and what their output is
22:31:06  <lorran78> ok
22:31:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (put on
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22:33:25  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: no, i'm just having a hard time identifying that as a lightsabre
22:34:54  <lorran78> i have problem to copy from my dos windows :/
22:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause> rightclick->select?
22:35:42  <Eddi|zuHause> windows was always a bit weird with that
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22:36:23  <lorran78>
22:36:28  <lorran78> done maybe :p
22:39:40  <Wolf01> As shit happens always, how do I sync a local branch with master without losing all the edits?
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22:43:03  <lorran78> eddi did u see it?
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22:53:17  <lorran78> Ya un francais ici par hasard? :p
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22:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: sorry, i wasn't paying attention for a minute
22:53:41  <lorran78> okay np :p
22:53:48  <lorran78>
22:53:48  <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: yeah, you're not doing the preprocessing
22:53:53  <lorran78> okay
22:53:55  <lorran78> then how?
22:54:12  <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: you should install mingw (if you haven't already), and use the "make" program
22:55:12  <lorran78> okay
22:57:14  <lorran78> here ?
23:06:20  <lorran78> how do i use it?
23:06:36  <lorran78> i have a windows "mingw installation manager"
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23:27:40  <lorran78> eddi are u here?
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23:33:20  <lorran78> how can i use minGW?
23:33:39  <lorran78> i installed make from the installer manager from minGW...
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23:37:34  <lorran78> noone else to help me with my nml program and preprocessing?
23:44:14  <FLHerne_> lorran78: What are you modifying?
23:45:13  <FLHerne_> Generally, cd to the project's base directory and run `make`
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