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00:03:33 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 00:58:40 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 01:13:24 *** maciozo has quit IRC 01:13:25 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 01:15:42 *** Snail has quit IRC 01:27:18 <lorran78> how to use custom_tags in my nml? 01:27:46 <lorran78> name: string(STR_GRF_NAME) i use it but can't define it somewhere 01:27:52 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:35:24 <FLHerne_> lorran78: english.lng ? 01:46:01 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 02:31:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 02:31:20 *** DDR has joined #openttd 02:35:58 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 02:36:05 <lorran78> yes =) 02:36:11 <lorran78> i found after asking :p 02:46:43 *** tokai has joined #openttd 02:46:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 02:53:29 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 03:23:41 *** glx has quit IRC 03:25:29 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 04:09:19 *** ccfreak2k has quit IRC 04:09:58 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd 04:32:49 *** chomwitt1 has quit IRC 04:34:18 *** chomwitt1 has joined #openttd 04:48:39 *** sunnid has quit IRC 05:38:55 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:39:44 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 06:45:14 *** chomwitt1 has quit IRC 07:17:45 *** chomwitt1 has joined #openttd 07:20:40 *** chomwitt1 has quit IRC 07:25:11 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 08:07:11 *** efess has quit IRC 08:07:30 *** Deactivated has joined #openttd 08:07:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:08:04 <andythenorth> o/ 08:08:39 <Deactivated> Hmm? 08:17:47 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 08:26:31 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 08:26:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 08:49:26 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:49:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:54:20 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 09:39:24 *** Progman has joined #openttd 10:00:02 *** efess has joined #openttd 10:26:14 *** kais58 has quit IRC 10:26:29 *** kais58 has joined #openttd 10:27:40 *** Keridos has quit IRC 10:29:35 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 10:39:19 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd 10:50:15 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 11:08:38 *** Keridos has joined #openttd 11:17:53 *** Alberth has left #openttd 11:18:26 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 12:35:14 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 12:35:28 <Wolf01> Moin 12:35:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:46:31 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 13:03:51 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:18:53 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:18:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 13:19:07 <Alberth> moin 13:19:10 <Wolf01> o/ 13:22:36 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 13:23:48 <Wolf01> Let's see if ottd blows up 13:24:24 <Wolf01> Yes 13:32:42 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 13:33:20 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:33:23 *** maciozo has quit IRC 13:33:47 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 13:36:03 <Wolf01> How do I get a town size? 13:37:38 <Wolf01> Oh, cache 13:41:32 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd 13:41:57 <Wolf01> Ok, seem to work 13:42:39 <peter1139> hi 13:43:20 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/a/hYds1 13:46:10 *** Progman has quit IRC 13:46:22 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 13:46:40 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 13:46:45 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 13:53:47 <Wolf01> Not sure if best with 0 or 1 radii 13:54:23 <Wolf01> t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[0] = mass * 15 - 40; 13:54:23 <Wolf01> t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[1] = mass * 9 - 15; 13:56:01 <Wolf01> Btw, it's easy to espose to get country roads 13:57:24 <peter1139> what makes that a country road? 13:57:43 <Wolf01> Distance from town 13:58:07 <Wolf01> Any town, not one in particular 13:59:14 <Wolf01> I tried to do it the same way it's used to draw the tree ring in the cities 14:00:57 <__ln__> https://www.instagram.com/p/BMFREIjhXEy/ #TSATravelTips 14:02:00 <Wolf01> :) 14:08:45 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:10:18 <_dp_> tz0 is also affected by funding 14:13:53 *** gelignite has quit IRC 14:19:03 *** Deactivated has quit IRC 14:30:01 <supermop> good morning 14:34:23 <Wolf01> So, it seem I now understand how stations in town influence town growth 14:38:21 <Alberth> one less mystery to solve by playing :( 14:38:54 <Wolf01> I always used 3 roadstops, but code says 5 is the best one 14:39:16 <Alberth> oh, coop claims 4, iirc 14:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know the number 5 14:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of 4 14:40:01 <Wolf01> Also, there isn't anything about passengers/mail transported, only ticks between load/unload 14:40:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, any cargo suffices 14:40:27 <Alberth> pax is just plentiful available :) 14:40:35 <Wolf01> So you can even leave your bus to "load if available" 14:41:47 <Alberth> won't make much difference, 2nd round, it's available anyway :) 14:41:50 <Wolf01> Arctic and tropic are a bit different, there's also the food goal 14:42:33 <Alberth> yep, quite tricky to serve desert cities well 14:43:37 <Alberth> don't think I ever bothered doing arctic cities 14:43:46 <Alberth> too many good industry chains :) 14:44:00 <Wolf01> No clue if is possible to make towns growth in zones, like commercial around stations which provide goods, houses around stations which move pax 14:44:49 <Alberth> "grow" is just building road, house, or replace house, isn't it? 14:44:57 <Wolf01> Yes 14:45:25 <Alberth> so it depends on how it picks a new house 14:45:32 <Wolf01> I often find that commercial buildings move away from the place they started in small towns 14:45:47 <Wolf01> And try to cram into center of the town 14:46:07 <Wolf01> Leaving my unload station in suburbs not accepting goods anymore 14:46:15 <Alberth> houses have a zone, or a prefered zone or so? 14:47:04 <Alberth> city evolution leaves much to be desired :p 14:47:59 <Alberth> on the other hand, it's not a city simulation 14:49:17 <Wolf01> No, but placing (most of) all the commercial buildings in the other side of a city would provide a new piece of the puzzle to think about 14:49:30 <Wolf01> As it's now, any place in a big town is valid 14:57:59 <Alberth> lots of low hanging fruit there, is my guess 15:04:29 <Wolf01> I should get a leash to not be let free to roam in the code 15:06:09 <_dp_> It picks random house that's allowed in that zone and fits the spot (if > 1x1) 15:07:18 <_dp_> so there isn't much player can affect here 15:07:35 <_dp_> only mb blocking some tiles to not get 2x2 warehouses 15:10:12 <_dp_> well, I guess, funding and reserving kinda counts too 15:12:13 <Wolf01> At least until $someone patches the code 15:27:40 <_dp_> at this state I somewhat feel like doing patches for openttd is just a waste of time 15:27:49 <_dp_> No one is going to merge them anyway 15:33:03 <peter1139> fork! 15:33:16 <peter1139> librettd! 15:33:28 <peter1139> free the oppressive regime of the devs! 15:33:44 <Wolf01> Was goint to write that... just fork the game or do a patchpack 15:33:49 <Wolf01> *going 15:36:10 <peter1139> Wolf01, how's the new version going? 15:36:12 <_dp_> noone will play that fork 15:36:24 <peter1139> http://orig05.deviantart.net/fd60/f/2013/048/d/b/what_if_openttd_was_real_____by_dragracingotaku-d5vccar.png :D 15:36:47 <Wolf01> Slowly :P 15:37:12 <Wolf01> I'm trying to figure out how to import photoshop in ottd 15:37:14 <Wolf01> XD 15:37:26 <_dp_> because of mp incompatibility, and for sp there are plenty of patchpacks already 15:37:33 <peter1139> I'm trying to figure how to do a ttd-like game with no client state 15:38:43 <Alberth> big video wall attached to the server 15:38:44 <peter1139> By "trying to" I mean, just thought about wondering if it's possible. 15:38:49 <peter1139> heh 15:40:14 <Alberth> it would only remove the initial load of a savegame upon connecting, wouldn't it? 15:40:17 <Wolf01> Should work like VNC 15:41:51 <Wolf01> You only send commands to server which does all, and you see the result of the server execution 15:42:05 <peter1139> good for laggy connections then 15:42:22 <_dp_> as if ttd is any good on laggy connection :p 15:42:57 <Alberth> Wolf01: that already happens, in a MP, the server is the authority on performing commands 15:43:07 <Wolf01> _dp_, a bit polemic today? 15:43:10 <Alberth> it just sends commands back instead of pictures 15:43:24 <Alberth> to save bandwidth 15:43:56 <Wolf01> But there's client state 15:44:14 <Wolf01> If you remove client state you need to use more bandwidth 15:44:37 <Alberth> yep, send a video stream 15:45:21 <Alberth> google YT server might work :p 15:45:23 <Wolf01> Or at least commands to recreate the output 15:45:43 <Alberth> ^ but that happens now 15:45:47 <Wolf01> But the whole output 15:45:51 <Wolf01> Continuously 15:46:03 <Wolf01> Not state update 15:46:09 <Alberth> oh, like drawing commands 15:46:30 <Alberth> having a lot of images available for local rendering is not state? 15:46:50 <Wolf01> Nah, they are resources 15:46:55 <peter1139> ^ 15:48:42 <Alberth> split the grid in bigger sized blocks, and send how to render an entire block if a client looks at it 15:49:21 <Alberth> so each client gets a number of blocks 15:49:55 <Alberth> at the same time server only needs to handle each block once 15:51:50 <Alberth> could this work for a GPU? 15:55:01 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:09:25 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 16:13:06 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 16:38:13 <supermop> i wonder to what extent good functionalist design in game graphics, that makes a game so satisfying and timeless visually, 16:38:26 <supermop> actually hurts our engagement with it 16:39:07 <supermop> if a game is just about moving tiles to connect lines, it's a pretty puzzle, 16:40:03 <supermop> if the lines look like cartoon railways, or a dungeon maze, etc, it moves from puzzle to game, and our mind builds a little narrative 16:40:49 <Alberth> likely that's different from person to person 16:41:20 <Alberth> if you grow up now, you only see pseudo-realistic 3d stuff 16:41:38 <Alberth> abstract lines just look weird 16:42:39 <supermop> professional chess players all seem to play with the standard, sort of abstract pieces, 16:43:09 <supermop> but i wonder if casual players have more fun plaing with pieces that look like figurines of knights and soldiers 16:44:01 <Alberth> likely they can 16:44:25 <Alberth> proffesional chess players build a whole world in their head 16:45:20 <supermop> Alberth: when i was gowing up in the 80s, we had this game: 16:45:22 <supermop> http://www.fairplaygames.com/pics/RiversRoadsRail.jpg 16:45:38 <supermop> but the original version, from 1968 was like this: 16:45:46 <Alberth> however, I do think that game quality wins from whatever graphics you use 16:46:06 <supermop> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cZPOKvXwjjc/T6f9Y4iSTDI/AAAAAAAAAT4/aDBbc3dKopk/s1600/IMG_4260.jpg 16:46:37 <V453000> All bow to realizm 16:46:57 <V453000> Or else 16:47:03 <Alberth> it's about first impression, I think 16:47:18 <Alberth> a deep game cannot be appreciated at a shelf 16:47:21 <supermop> so when ravensburger bought the rights from galt, they made a decision to move it from abstract in graphics and name, to a cartoonish world based on things from real life 16:47:32 <V453000> Yes Alberth 16:48:27 <supermop> Alberth: yes, but when the game is also for children, something they can identify immediately probably is more engaging than pure gameplay unconnected to real world 16:48:44 <V453000> The original graphics are imo so great because they are believable, and extremely high quality pixel art 16:48:47 <supermop> because at first glance, they can't know if the game itself will be fun 16:48:59 <V453000> Yes 16:49:21 <supermop> but they can guess that building little roads and railways sounds fun, even if the gameplay is bad 16:49:42 <V453000> Cough competition games cough 16:49:57 <supermop> where as plain lines looks forbidding, like something for boring adults, 16:50:41 <supermop> maybe it is fun to play, but the kid assumes they will have to spend boring time learning the rules without anything stimulating their imagination 16:50:58 <V453000> We should have rails look like cubes with pathfinder penalty numbers on them 16:51:38 <V453000> That is the case with everybody supermop, we are all kids in this :) ofc for children it applies a bit more 16:52:18 <supermop> V453000: but an adult might buy an abstract version of a game they may already be familiar with 16:52:22 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:52:23 <andythenorth> suggestions thread is suggesty 16:52:27 <supermop> the market could be a bit different 16:52:28 <V453000> Hm 16:52:40 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 16:52:50 <supermop> maybe i want a classy chess set on my table instead of plastic simpsons chess 16:53:00 <Alberth> supermop: I wouldm't bet on that too much :) 16:53:12 <supermop> Alberth: not all adults 16:53:28 <V453000> Well, I basically totally agree, which is why I am trying to make BRIX v0.0.1 as good as I can, the first impression is key 16:53:32 <Alberth> andythenorth: you expected anything else than a suggestion thread in all possible directions? 16:53:45 <supermop> but some adults may have concerns of design etc that kids would not 16:53:51 <V453000> There is no reason why play with RAWR, it has more pixels but just looks shit 16:53:58 <Alberth> only for things they know, I think 16:54:00 <supermop> kids just want to have fun and use imagination 16:54:30 <V453000> What I am also trying to achieve is that the objects in the game look toyish, not serious realismish 16:54:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: it’s kind of doing what I was hoping 16:54:48 <andythenorth> somewhere in there, someone will have a good idea 16:54:48 <supermop> i think minimetro works even though it is so minimal, because it is minimal in a particular way that is world building 16:55:01 <andythenorth> or will realise why lots of the ideas aren’t useful 16:55:11 <andythenorth> V453000: new BRIX = winning 16:55:27 <V453000> Moar to come, wacoming like mad 16:55:30 <supermop> by making the graphics in the style of a metro map, you create the narative that you are struggling to run a subway in a busy city 16:55:49 <supermop> moreso that one cartoon train on one cartoon railway would 16:55:57 <supermop> V453000: also i agress 16:56:00 <Alberth> yes, graphics and story should match :p 16:56:02 <supermop> agrees 16:56:06 <V453000> :) 16:56:11 <supermop> graphics for brix look great 16:56:45 <andythenorth> V453000: will you also fork FIRS and make BRIX style sprites? o_O 16:56:48 <V453000> Just needs the final polish, which is a lot of chanes but yeah 16:56:55 <V453000> No andythenorth 16:57:12 <supermop> andythenorth: hopefully it means 4-10 road grfs for different tastes, maybe half are stupid, half are fun, and then people figure out how they want to play with NRT 16:57:27 <V453000> If I ever manage to make BRIX replace all game sprites, I will make my ultimate winning train set 16:57:46 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** DDR has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** ConductorCat has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** Flygon__ has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** umgeher has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** dustinm` has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** _dp_ has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** Tharbakim has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** mikegrb has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** gnu_jj_ has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** Warrigal_ has quit IRC 16:57:46 *** greeter has quit IRC 16:58:01 <supermop> andythenorth: i am struggling with skuemorphism 16:58:08 <V453000> Wtf 16:58:19 <V453000> Skuewat 16:58:47 <supermop> gift from my brother: https://www.instagram.com/p/BOlTSdFABG2/?taken-by=metabolist 16:59:14 <V453000> Right 17:00:36 <supermop> V453000: making graphic language ape real world prototypes 17:00:54 <supermop> like the old instagram logo that looked like an old polaroid camera 17:01:11 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** DDR has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** umgeher has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** _dp_ has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** Tharbakim has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** gnu_jj_ has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** Warrigal_ has joined #openttd 17:01:11 *** greeter has joined #openttd 17:01:29 <V453000> :d 17:01:38 <V453000> Nyway I gtfo, laters 17:02:56 <supermop> later 17:03:23 <__ln__> cool, Finland on BBC's front page: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38458583 17:19:49 *** Jiri has joined #openttd 17:19:54 <Jiri> Hi guyes 17:20:24 <supermop> hi 17:20:48 <Jiri> I am trying to get working these new 32 bit Zbase graffics 17:21:15 <Jiri> the loading screen everything is fine but when i open new game some items are old graffics. 17:21:43 <Jiri> like airports and roads. these are not yet made or what? 17:22:44 <Alberth> these games use NewGRFs ? 17:23:11 <Jiri> yeah 17:23:23 <Alberth> if they do, they likely do not have 32bit graphics, and then OpenTTD falls back onto the 8bit graphics that they do provide 17:23:26 <Jiri> or these openGFX 17:24:16 <Alberth> OpenGFX and Zbase can't be used at the same time, as you can have only one baseset at a time 17:24:33 <Alberth> maybe you mean the various opengfx+... NewGRFs ? 17:24:54 <Jiri> https://s30.postimg.org/nyzymkxa7/pic1.jpg 17:25:14 <Jiri> look the picture maybe that will clarify the situation 17:25:22 <Alberth> I know what you mean 17:25:42 <Alberth> airport and iron ore mine are fine, the city looks like crap :p 17:25:43 <Jiri> but like loading screen all the roads and airport are importet to 32 bit graffics 17:26:19 <Alberth> if you want 32bit everywhere, don't play with newgrfs that do not have 32bit graphics 17:26:30 <Alberth> loading screen has no newgrfs at all 17:27:25 <Alberth> https://wiki.openttd.org/List_of_32bpp_NewGRFs#NewGRFs 17:29:14 <Alberth> you're likely confused by opengfx+industries and opengfx+airports 17:29:58 <Alberth> they are 8bit newgrfs, but use default (8 bit) graphics, so it looks like it's part of the baseset, but they are not 17:30:18 <Jiri> might be 17:30:29 <Jiri> i just wanted that the game look little bit better. 17:30:59 <Alberth> start a game without those two newgrfs, and see if that solves your problem 17:31:00 <Jiri> so i donwload and install like this set? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1048814#p1048814 17:31:46 <Alberth> I don't know, do you need more vehicles? 17:31:56 <Alberth> I never played with eGRVTS 17:33:08 <Jiri> i don't want new vehicles but nice looking roads 17:33:26 <Jiri> please explain me how i will have 32 bit roads 17:34:47 <Jiri> i think i got it now, i have to donwload abase set 17:34:53 <Jiri> for zbase 17:35:03 <Jiri> that was confusing 17:35:19 <Alberth> zbase has 32bit roads 17:35:54 <Alberth> buit don't load newgrfs that are not 32bit 17:37:27 <Jiri> then why i don't see these 32 bit roads? 17:37:39 <Jiri> i still don't understand 17:37:50 <Alberth> have you tried a game without any newgrf ? 17:37:58 <Alberth> ie only zbase baseset 17:37:59 <Jiri> do i have to delete these newgrfs 17:38:05 <supermop> Jiri: you have a newgrf that adds 8 bit road graphics 17:38:16 <Alberth> no, just deactivate them 17:38:21 <supermop> no just do not load them in a game 17:38:23 <Jiri> yeah 17:38:40 <Jiri> thanks guys i got i working now 17:38:42 <supermop> in your picture it looks like you have UK roads 17:38:51 <supermop> which has 8 bit graphics 17:38:57 <Jiri> i tried to "upgrade" them 17:39:04 <supermop> andythenorth: et al, are things at a point yet where someone, possibly even myself, can make a NRT road grf? 17:39:45 <Alberth> Jiri: lots of artists are not here any more, or don't do 32bit 17:39:46 <supermop> i have sprites for melbourne inspired roads sitting on a hdd 17:40:01 <Jiri> yes i understand 17:40:15 <Jiri> but why not default use the zbase. 17:40:26 <Jiri> if you donwload the game today 17:40:35 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:40:36 <supermop> Jiri: most people do not like zbase 17:40:41 <supermop> they think it is ugly 17:40:54 <Jiri> comparing the newgrf? 17:41:02 <Alberth> no, baseset 17:41:03 <supermop> notice how all of the buildings look flat and dead 17:43:03 <supermop> zephyris made zbase as a test to try to make a 32bit base set, because at that time there were no other complete sets that used 32bit 17:43:48 <Alberth> Jiri: compare left column pictures with right column pictures https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1180743#p1180743 17:44:02 <Alberth> left column is a lot like what zbase is now 17:44:23 <Alberth> right column is infinitely better 17:44:43 <Jiri> agreed 17:45:19 <Alberth> 8bit graphics are much closer to the right column, so many people prefer that over the left column 17:45:20 <supermop> zbase is just basic example of 32bit, it is not finished with texture like the right column 17:46:30 <supermop> also, the original game is from 1994 - and the 8 bit graphics capture the spirit of that time, which many people enjoy 17:48:30 <Jiri> i think everyone how now a days downlaod this game has played in their childhood 17:48:59 <Jiri> but the orginal 94 game is totally different allready. so many good changes has happened since that 17:49:03 <Jiri> with openttd 17:50:08 <supermop> Jiri: yes, but not many artists enjoy making 32bit graphics, so there are very few of them 17:50:18 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 17:51:01 <Jiri> i can understand 17:51:07 <andythenorth> supermop: you could make an NRT grf, if you can install the nml fork 17:51:12 <andythenorth> not sure that’s trivial on windows 17:51:21 <LordAro> also, zbase baseset is *massive* download 17:51:42 <LordAro> isn't it 400MB or so? 17:51:46 <Jiri> 290 17:51:47 <supermop> if you use basic 3d model and basic rendering, you end up with huge file size, but still dead look 17:52:03 <Jiri> well rawr and yeti both are about the same 17:52:18 <supermop> so you need to use professional technique to make better graphics 17:52:40 <LordAro> even so, it's a far cry from the ~10MB download for the game itself 17:52:51 <supermop> Jiri: V453000 is a professional graphic artist with professional rendering software and experience 17:53:43 <peter1139> zbase is not very pleasant. 17:53:53 <supermop> most artists for openttd do not have that experience 17:54:02 <Alberth> hi hi LordAro 17:54:06 <LordAro> o7 17:54:06 <Alberth> /me waves 17:54:20 <LordAro> still not fixed those ACTIONs, i see :) 17:54:38 <Alberth> clearly :) 17:54:45 <supermop> even i am a professional architect who uses professional software, and I do not have the experience to do production like V453000 17:55:21 <LordAro> there definitely used to be more 32bpp artists 17:55:36 <peter1139> so why does openttd's cursor disappear in windows? 17:55:37 <LordAro> i tried to organise them all, once upon a time 17:56:32 <LordAro> iirc, several of them got scared off when some licencing snaffu happened 17:57:05 <supermop> andythenorth: can i just put together sprite sheet and try to write some code and give to someone to compile? 17:58:25 <Jiri> thanks guys i will no test different types graffics but yeti and rawr look nice 17:58:29 <Jiri> see you byt. 17:58:32 <Jiri> bye 17:58:40 <supermop> Wolf01: do your country roads have the ability to use different decorations? 17:59:03 <supermop> ie can sidewalk/tree/lamp graphics vary by road type? 17:59:54 <Wolf01> Roadtypes define all, you should be able to define a different subset of graphics to use outside towns, no other changes like speed limits, only graphics 18:01:35 <supermop> can towns build only the default roadtype? 18:01:40 <Wolf01> Yes 18:01:44 <supermop> hmm 18:01:51 <Wolf01> Or the one which replaces it 18:02:49 <supermop> so they cannot build dirt roads on edges of town and paved inside town - they can only build a road that looks like dirt outside and looks like paved inside 18:03:38 <Wolf01> If you make a roadtype like that, yes 18:03:49 <Wolf01> But I didn't try to replace the default one yet 18:03:54 <Wolf01> Ask andythenorth :P 18:04:03 <supermop> separate from ideas to make a grf with sprites i have already, i was thinking about the dirt/stone -> asphalt problem 18:04:04 <Alberth> and create all kinds of compatibility issues with vehicles entering or leaving? that sounds like a bad idea 18:04:43 <Wolf01> No Alberth, it's the same roadtype, only with different graphics 18:04:57 <supermop> currently road new grfs just fake it and you have to reload save after some date to go from old to new 18:05:13 <supermop> but what if you could set a property for town prefernce 18:05:26 <Alberth> Wolf01: I know, and I think that's a good decision, I am arguing against different road types 18:05:47 <Wolf01> You can already wall-in a city with HAUL 18:06:18 <supermop> so town prefers aphalt most, stone next, and dirt least 18:06:39 <supermop> but in year 0 only dirt exists 18:06:42 <Wolf01> supermop, there's no concept of asphalt, stone, dirt and never will be 18:07:02 <Wolf01> There's a concept of road/tramway and speed limit 18:07:21 <Wolf01> A town could prefer a roadtype with 50kmh speed limit or one with 70kmh 18:07:25 <supermop> a road grf could introduce three types of road with different speed limits that look like those 18:08:03 <supermop> and set them so that a town prefers to build the 'asphalt' one once it becomes available? 18:08:34 <supermop> iff a town has the choice to build from more than one type of road 18:08:55 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:08:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:09:04 <supermop> or is this crazy? 18:09:30 <Alberth> how does it decide? 18:09:50 <Wolf01> Will require too many changes right now, and it's out of the scope of NRT 18:09:50 <Alberth> or, what prevents it from just picking one all the time 18:09:53 <peter1139> yay ivor 18:10:09 <supermop> Alberth: set a value for each type that town prefers 18:10:29 <supermop> prefers modern road the most, but it is not available until modern times 18:10:31 <Alberth> that doesn't exist 18:10:35 <supermop> so it build the old road 18:10:47 <supermop> Alberth: i know, but was wondering if it could 18:10:53 <Alberth> unless your newgrf provides it 18:11:12 <Alberth> but there is still 1 roadtype today 18:11:32 <supermop> Alberth: so now town always builds 1 type 18:11:45 <Alberth> every town builds the same type 18:12:15 <supermop> but maybe a newgrf provides two types of roads, so all towns build type 1 until some date, then they build type 2 18:12:17 <Alberth> you can change graphics though, as far as I understand it 18:12:40 <supermop> but not speedlimit 18:12:42 <Alberth> like I said, hello world of compatibility issues 18:13:01 <Alberth> but it's also not existing 18:13:39 <supermop> why does, say, increasing speed limit of town built roads in 1910, cause compatibility trouble? 18:14:00 <Alberth> who says you'd have to use compatible road types? 18:14:10 <supermop> alberth no one does 18:14:12 <Alberth> each road type is separate 18:14:40 <supermop> a newgrf author can make today a rail grf that no train can ever run on 18:15:08 <Alberth> and you want that in a city, where it changes without a player control? 18:15:18 <Alberth> how is that good game play? 18:15:43 <supermop> hows is that rail grf good? i just choose not to use a newgrf that was made in bad faith 18:16:10 <Alberth> I put rail down myself 18:16:17 <Alberth> it doesn't change by itself 18:16:43 <supermop> a road speed limit increasing by itself does not hurt the player 18:17:06 <Alberth> I am not saying there are no good examples 18:17:23 <supermop> if the grf provides a 2nd road type incompatible from the first, i choose not to play with that grf 18:17:24 <Alberth> I am saying there are also a lot of troublesome counter examples 18:18:01 <supermop> i can make a road grf that changes all road to bright flashing magenta in 1992 18:18:05 <supermop> but no one would use it 18:18:42 <Alberth> most people wouldn't even see it :p 18:19:01 <Alberth> in current openttd, at least 18:19:16 <Alberth> afk 18:19:53 <supermop> i can also make a town grf that provides 0 population in every house available from 1990 onwards 18:20:17 <supermop> so without my control, all of my passenger stations become worthless 18:30:33 *** Jiri has quit IRC 18:45:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27717 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2016-12-29 19:45:38 +0100 ) 18:45:49 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 18:45:50 <DorpsGek> spanish: 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ 18:50:35 *** Milek7 has joined #openttd 18:52:37 <Alberth> yeah, well ok 18:58:47 <supermop> are bus stop graphics going to be per road grf, or by base set? 19:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think bus stops will change with this patch 19:06:04 <supermop> just wondering if i can change how they look on a per-type basis 19:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> not unless you want to implement newgrf road stations (including state machines) 19:15:57 <peter1139> ^ 19:16:41 <Rubidium> just have state machines for everything then ;) 19:16:49 <peter1139> doesn't make sense to make 2 ways to change them 19:18:17 <Rubidium> so you can have platforms on one side of the tile and the track on the other, or even a siding on one half of the tile with the main track on the other side 19:18:57 <Rubidium> all, ofcourse, including signals and arbitrary z-height changes 19:22:32 <peter1139> well 19:22:48 <peter1139> might as well wait for Wolf01's new version 19:27:51 <Wolf01> Sure, junctions in the middle of a station 19:35:51 <andythenorth> supermop: sorry I am afk for rest of day, can’t answer nml questions 19:35:53 <andythenorth> bye also 19:35:56 <andythenorth> :) 19:36:04 <supermop> Antheus: np 19:36:07 <supermop> oops 19:36:07 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:36:37 <supermop> sorry to guy who is one tab before andy 19:51:08 *** mazert has joined #openttd 19:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> why is athat even? is your tab not in alphabetical order? 19:57:41 <supermop> maybe i tabbed too much 20:01:21 <supermop> hmm what my little harbour needs is tramway on isr or chips style tiles 20:13:50 <supermop> i wonder, if a big heavy truck drives to an industry where all the ground is cobblestones, does the truck drive on the cobbles? or do they have some concrete path for it 20:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause> what does the cobble have to do with that? 20:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> for heavy trucks you want to have a sturdy underconstruction 20:18:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and concrete probably wears off quicker than cobbles 20:20:05 <supermop> if you had a road type that was a tile of cobblestones, you need some kind of visual marker to show where the RVs can actually drive 20:20:25 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 20:21:07 <supermop> if it was regular road graphics in the center and cobblestones at the tile edges, it would blend with the rest of the industry or harbour, but would look silly 20:21:19 <supermop> a tramway on cobblestone is easy 20:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand the problem 20:24:42 <supermop> lets say i want to make a road grf that adds a new road type: cobbled yard 20:25:06 <supermop> i want the road to look like a full tile of cobblestones, with no grass at the sides 20:25:49 <supermop> so i can build a fancy harbour or whatever and it looks like the trucks are driving around some industrial complex 20:26:34 <supermop> if the road is a full tile of stones, there is no way for the player to tell what road bits are there or connected 20:27:09 <supermop> if it was a full tile of concrete, maybe you paint some stripes on it, but that might look bad on cobblestone 20:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there are cobble roads with a different type of cobble where the wheels of a car would go... but i can't find a picture of that 20:30:52 <supermop> like maybe a darker stone there? 20:31:36 <supermop> maybe i could put some gutters at the 'road' edge 20:34:54 <Eddi|zuHause> not exactly what i mean, but maybe this comes closest https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2015/10/29/08/31/paving-stones-1011977_960_720.jpg 20:39:12 <supermop> yeah 20:39:55 <supermop> i think having them under wheels bight make them look too much like tram tracks, but if i just do the outside edges, that should work 20:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> under the wheels should be darker 20:41:51 <supermop> hmm the isr gravel shows some of the groundtile through 20:41:55 <Eddi|zuHause> or make the whole lane out of the darker cobbles 20:42:03 <supermop> i wonder if that will be a problem 21:24:40 <lorran78> hello! 21:25:13 <lorran78> i managed to change introduction date from all type of original vehicules... 21:26:19 <lorran78> but i wanted now to make a grf with all vehicle without using opengfx+ but it seems it doesn't work 21:28:54 <__ln__> @seen SmatZ 21:28:54 <DorpsGek> __ln__: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 21 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <SmatZ> wish I were so lucky... 21:29:08 <__ln__> @seen Yexo 21:29:08 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 4 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours, 12 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet 21:29:13 <lorran78> i tried opengfx+ first in the list of grf and end 21:29:22 <lorran78> but same my vehicle are twice :/ 21:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: you need the "override vehicles of other grf" feature, look it up on the wiki 21:30:13 <lorran78> oh cool 21:33:28 <lorran78> i am searching 21:36:32 <lorran78> it's a parameter i must add? 21:39:09 *** Arveen has quit IRC 21:40:02 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 21:55:13 *** Alberth has left #openttd 22:15:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 22:22:55 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 22:25:50 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:27:50 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 22:29:53 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 22:30:38 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:30:56 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 22:40:27 *** Gja has quit IRC 22:43:26 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:48:20 <__ln__> anyone been to Seattle? 22:53:08 <Supercheese> yeah been a few times 22:53:12 <Supercheese> the monorail is reeeally short 22:53:22 <Supercheese> like, you almost might as well walk 22:53:48 <lorran78> eddi ? i can't find something about override 22:54:31 <lorran78> and i have a question when i override it override only the property i set or it's reset all properties and put only mine? 22:54:52 <__ln__> is it an interesting place to visit otherwise? 22:57:47 <__ln__> and is there something to see about boeing? 22:59:25 <supermop> __ln__: its a decent city 22:59:43 <supermop> there are plenty of good food and drink spots 23:00:21 <supermop> i would mostly recommend it to live in rather than visit, but there are lots to do around there as well 23:00:49 <supermop> san juan islands olympic peninsula, etc 23:01:18 <supermop> cool architecture and shops in the city 23:01:37 <supermop> lot of my friends from high school and university live there now 23:01:50 <supermop> as well as some of my wife's cousins 23:03:56 <supermop> if you are going to be in Washington State anyway i'd definitely recommend visiting 23:04:43 *** mazert has quit IRC 23:05:23 <__ln__> i'm in a stage of finding out ideas where to go next, while the timeframe for implementing such trips is probably a few years in the future at least 23:08:22 <__ln__> Washington is one of the 42 states i have not been to yet 23:12:49 <supermop> well might as well go 23:13:24 <supermop> but depending on where you are coming from i would try to incorporate other stuff in washington besides just seattle 23:14:19 <supermop> when i was a kid we occasionally took ~2 wk trips to visit my aunt in oregon, where we would drive from oregon to washington 23:15:28 <supermop> including both time in cities like portland and seattle, as well as lots of time in the mountains, high desert, temperate rainforest, coast etc 23:16:14 <supermop> if you have not spent much time in the northwest, that's the type of trip i would suggest 23:17:12 <__ln__> sounds cool 23:17:38 <supermop> i suggest to do it in sumer when it is not raining 23:17:56 <lorran78> Eddi|zuHause: ? 23:17:58 <supermop> where will you be flying in from? 23:18:20 <supermop> lorran78: he might actually be asleep 23:18:43 <__ln__> finland 23:19:19 <supermop> how long will you be in the US 23:19:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:20:07 <__ln__> well, since i don't have a concrete plan yet, can't say for sure, but ~2 weeks could be realistic. 23:21:39 <lorran78> LOL 23:23:22 <Wolf01> So, I forked ottd... to make my one with supreme 3d graphics, blackjack and hookers 23:24:00 <Wolf01> Just kidding... I'm doing a "backup" of my patches 23:25:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:27:35 <__ln__> speaking of sleeping, gotta do that too, now 23:27:41 <Wolf01> Me too 23:29:45 <Wolf01> nn 23:29:48 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:50:59 *** Deactivated has joined #openttd