Log for #openttd on 29th December 2016:
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01:27:18  <lorran78> how to use custom_tags in my nml?
01:27:46  <lorran78>     name:                   string(STR_GRF_NAME) i use it but can't define it somewhere
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01:35:24  <FLHerne_> lorran78: english.lng ?
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02:36:05  <lorran78> yes =)
02:36:11  <lorran78> i found after asking :p
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08:08:04  <andythenorth> o/
08:08:39  <Deactivated> Hmm?
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12:35:28  <Wolf01> Moin
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13:19:07  <Alberth> moin
13:19:10  <Wolf01> o/
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13:23:48  <Wolf01> Let's see if ottd blows up
13:24:24  <Wolf01> Yes
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13:36:03  <Wolf01> How do I get a town size?
13:37:38  <Wolf01> Oh, cache
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13:41:57  <Wolf01> Ok, seem to work
13:42:39  <peter1139> hi
13:43:20  <Wolf01>
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13:53:47  <Wolf01> Not sure if best with 0 or 1 radii
13:54:23  <Wolf01> t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[0] = mass * 15 - 40;
13:54:23  <Wolf01> t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[1] = mass * 9 - 15;
13:56:01  <Wolf01> Btw, it's easy to espose to get country roads
13:57:24  <peter1139> what makes that a country road?
13:57:43  <Wolf01> Distance from town
13:58:07  <Wolf01> Any town, not one in particular
13:59:14  <Wolf01> I tried to do it the same way it's used to draw the tree ring in the cities
14:00:57  <__ln__>  #TSATravelTips
14:02:00  <Wolf01> :)
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14:10:18  <_dp_> tz0 is also affected by funding
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14:30:01  <supermop> good morning
14:34:23  <Wolf01> So, it seem I now understand how stations in town influence town growth
14:38:21  <Alberth> one less mystery to solve by playing :(
14:38:54  <Wolf01> I always used 3 roadstops, but code says 5 is the best one
14:39:16  <Alberth> oh, coop claims 4, iirc
14:39:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i only know the number 5
14:39:59  <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of 4
14:40:01  <Wolf01> Also, there isn't anything about passengers/mail transported, only ticks between load/unload
14:40:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, any cargo suffices
14:40:27  <Alberth> pax is just plentiful available :)
14:40:35  <Wolf01> So you can even leave your bus to "load if available"
14:41:47  <Alberth> won't make much difference, 2nd round, it's available anyway :)
14:41:50  <Wolf01> Arctic and tropic are a bit different, there's also the food goal
14:42:33  <Alberth> yep, quite tricky to serve desert cities well
14:43:37  <Alberth> don't think I ever bothered doing arctic cities
14:43:46  <Alberth> too many good industry chains :)
14:44:00  <Wolf01> No clue if is possible to make towns growth in zones, like commercial around stations which provide goods, houses around stations which move pax
14:44:49  <Alberth> "grow" is just building road, house, or replace house, isn't it?
14:44:57  <Wolf01> Yes
14:45:25  <Alberth> so it depends on how it picks a new house
14:45:32  <Wolf01> I often find that commercial buildings move away from the place they started in small towns
14:45:47  <Wolf01> And try to cram into center of the town
14:46:07  <Wolf01> Leaving my unload station in suburbs not accepting goods anymore
14:46:15  <Alberth> houses have a zone, or a prefered zone or so?
14:47:04  <Alberth> city evolution leaves much to be desired :p
14:47:59  <Alberth> on the other hand, it's not a city simulation
14:49:17  <Wolf01> No, but placing (most of) all the commercial buildings in the other side of a city would provide a new piece of the puzzle to think about
14:49:30  <Wolf01> As it's now, any place in a big town is valid
14:57:59  <Alberth> lots of low hanging fruit there, is my guess
15:04:29  <Wolf01> I should get a leash to not be let free to roam in the code
15:06:09  <_dp_> It picks random house that's allowed in that zone and fits the spot (if > 1x1)
15:07:18  <_dp_> so there isn't much player can affect here
15:07:35  <_dp_> only mb blocking some tiles to not get 2x2 warehouses
15:10:12  <_dp_> well, I guess, funding and reserving kinda counts too
15:12:13  <Wolf01> At least until $someone patches the code
15:27:40  <_dp_> at this state I somewhat feel like doing patches for openttd is just a waste of time
15:27:49  <_dp_> No one is going to merge them anyway
15:33:03  <peter1139> fork!
15:33:16  <peter1139> librettd!
15:33:28  <peter1139> free the oppressive regime of the devs!
15:33:44  <Wolf01> Was goint to write that... just fork the game or do a patchpack
15:33:49  <Wolf01> *going
15:36:10  <peter1139> Wolf01, how's the new version going?
15:36:12  <_dp_> noone will play that fork
15:36:24  <peter1139> :D
15:36:47  <Wolf01> Slowly :P
15:37:12  <Wolf01> I'm trying to figure out how to import photoshop in ottd
15:37:14  <Wolf01> XD
15:37:26  <_dp_> because of mp incompatibility, and for sp there are plenty of patchpacks already
15:37:33  <peter1139> I'm trying to figure how to do a ttd-like game with no client state
15:38:43  <Alberth> big video wall attached to the server
15:38:44  <peter1139> By "trying to" I mean, just thought about wondering if it's possible.
15:38:49  <peter1139> heh
15:40:14  <Alberth> it would only remove the initial load of a savegame upon connecting, wouldn't it?
15:40:17  <Wolf01> Should work like VNC
15:41:51  <Wolf01> You only send commands to server which does all, and you see the result of the server execution
15:42:05  <peter1139> good for laggy connections then
15:42:22  <_dp_> as if ttd is any good on laggy connection :p
15:42:57  <Alberth> Wolf01: that already happens, in a MP, the server is the authority on performing commands
15:43:07  <Wolf01> _dp_, a bit polemic today?
15:43:10  <Alberth> it just sends commands back instead of pictures
15:43:24  <Alberth> to save bandwidth
15:43:56  <Wolf01> But there's client state
15:44:14  <Wolf01> If you remove client state you need to use more bandwidth
15:44:37  <Alberth> yep, send a video stream
15:45:21  <Alberth> google YT server might work :p
15:45:23  <Wolf01> Or at least commands to recreate the output
15:45:43  <Alberth> ^ but that happens now
15:45:47  <Wolf01> But the whole output
15:45:51  <Wolf01> Continuously
15:46:03  <Wolf01> Not state update
15:46:09  <Alberth> oh, like drawing commands
15:46:30  <Alberth> having a lot of images available for local rendering is not state?
15:46:50  <Wolf01> Nah, they are resources
15:46:55  <peter1139> ^
15:48:42  <Alberth> split the grid in bigger sized blocks, and send how to render an entire block if a client looks at it
15:49:21  <Alberth> so each client gets a number of blocks
15:49:55  <Alberth> at the same time server only needs to handle each block once
15:51:50  <Alberth> could this work for a GPU?
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16:38:13  <supermop> i wonder to what extent good functionalist design in game graphics, that makes a game so satisfying and timeless visually,
16:38:26  <supermop> actually hurts our engagement with it
16:39:07  <supermop> if a game is just about moving tiles to connect lines, it's a pretty puzzle,
16:40:03  <supermop> if the lines look like cartoon railways, or a dungeon maze, etc, it moves from puzzle to game, and our mind builds a little narrative
16:40:49  <Alberth> likely that's different from person to person
16:41:20  <Alberth> if you grow up now, you only see pseudo-realistic 3d stuff
16:41:38  <Alberth> abstract lines just look weird
16:42:39  <supermop> professional chess players all seem to play with the standard, sort of abstract pieces,
16:43:09  <supermop> but i wonder if casual players have more fun plaing with pieces that look like figurines of knights and soldiers
16:44:01  <Alberth> likely they can
16:44:25  <Alberth> proffesional chess players build a whole world in their head
16:45:20  <supermop> Alberth: when i was gowing up in the 80s, we had this game:
16:45:22  <supermop>
16:45:38  <supermop> but the original version, from 1968 was like this:
16:45:46  <Alberth> however, I do think that game quality wins from whatever graphics you use
16:46:06  <supermop>
16:46:37  <V453000> All bow to realizm
16:46:57  <V453000> Or else
16:47:03  <Alberth> it's about first impression, I think
16:47:18  <Alberth> a deep game cannot be appreciated at a shelf
16:47:21  <supermop> so when ravensburger bought the rights from galt, they made a decision to move it from abstract in graphics and name, to a cartoonish world based on things from real life
16:47:32  <V453000> Yes Alberth
16:48:27  <supermop> Alberth: yes, but when the game is also for children, something they can identify immediately probably is more engaging than pure gameplay unconnected to real world
16:48:44  <V453000> The original graphics are imo so great because they are believable, and extremely high quality pixel art
16:48:47  <supermop> because at first glance, they can't know if the game itself will be fun
16:48:59  <V453000> Yes
16:49:21  <supermop> but they can guess that building little roads and railways sounds fun, even if the gameplay is bad
16:49:42  <V453000> Cough competition games cough
16:49:57  <supermop> where as plain lines looks forbidding, like something for boring adults,
16:50:41  <supermop> maybe it is fun to play, but the kid assumes they will have to spend boring time learning the rules without anything stimulating their imagination
16:50:58  <V453000> We should have rails look like cubes with pathfinder penalty numbers on them
16:51:38  <V453000> That is the case with everybody supermop, we are all kids in this :) ofc for children it applies a bit more
16:52:18  <supermop> V453000: but an adult might buy an abstract version of a game they may already be familiar with
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16:52:23  <andythenorth> suggestions thread is suggesty
16:52:27  <supermop> the market could be a bit different
16:52:28  <V453000> Hm
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16:52:50  <supermop> maybe i want a classy chess set on my table instead of plastic simpsons chess
16:53:00  <Alberth> supermop: I wouldm't bet on that too much :)
16:53:12  <supermop> Alberth: not all adults
16:53:28  <V453000> Well, I basically totally agree, which is why I am trying to make BRIX v0.0.1 as good as I can, the first impression is key
16:53:32  <Alberth> andythenorth: you expected anything else than a suggestion thread in all possible directions?
16:53:45  <supermop> but some adults may have concerns of design etc that kids would not
16:53:51  <V453000> There is no reason why play with RAWR, it has more pixels but just looks shit
16:53:58  <Alberth> only for things they know, I think
16:54:00  <supermop> kids just want to have fun and use imagination
16:54:30  <V453000> What I am also trying to achieve is that the objects in the game look toyish, not serious realismish
16:54:31  <andythenorth> Alberth: it’s kind of doing what I was hoping
16:54:48  <andythenorth> somewhere in there, someone will have a good idea
16:54:48  <supermop> i think minimetro works even though it is so minimal, because it is minimal in a particular way that is world building
16:55:01  <andythenorth> or will realise why lots of the ideas aren’t useful
16:55:11  <andythenorth> V453000: new BRIX = winning
16:55:27  <V453000> Moar to come, wacoming like mad
16:55:30  <supermop> by making the graphics in the style of a metro map, you create the narative that you are struggling to run a subway in a busy city
16:55:49  <supermop> moreso that one cartoon train on one cartoon railway would
16:55:57  <supermop> V453000: also i agress
16:56:00  <Alberth> yes, graphics and story should match :p
16:56:02  <supermop> agrees
16:56:06  <V453000> :)
16:56:11  <supermop> graphics for brix look great
16:56:45  <andythenorth> V453000: will you also fork FIRS and make BRIX style sprites? o_O
16:56:48  <V453000> Just needs the final polish, which is a lot of chanes but yeah
16:56:55  <V453000> No andythenorth
16:57:12  <supermop> andythenorth: hopefully it means 4-10 road grfs for different tastes, maybe half are stupid, half are fun, and then people figure out how they want to play with NRT
16:57:27  <V453000> If I ever manage to make BRIX replace all game sprites, I will make my ultimate winning train set
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16:58:01  <supermop> andythenorth: i am struggling with skuemorphism
16:58:08  <V453000> Wtf
16:58:19  <V453000> Skuewat
16:58:47  <supermop> gift from my brother:
16:59:14  <V453000> Right
17:00:36  <supermop> V453000: making graphic language ape real world prototypes
17:00:54  <supermop> like the old instagram logo that looked like an old polaroid camera
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17:01:29  <V453000> :d
17:01:38  <V453000> Nyway I gtfo, laters
17:02:56  <supermop> later
17:03:23  <__ln__> cool, Finland on BBC's front page:
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17:19:54  <Jiri> Hi guyes
17:20:24  <supermop> hi
17:20:48  <Jiri> I am trying to get working these new 32 bit Zbase graffics
17:21:15  <Jiri> the loading screen everything is fine but when i open new game some items are old graffics.
17:21:43  <Jiri> like airports and roads. these are not yet made or what?
17:22:44  <Alberth> these games use NewGRFs ?
17:23:11  <Jiri> yeah
17:23:23  <Alberth> if they do, they likely do not have 32bit graphics, and then OpenTTD falls back onto the 8bit graphics that they do provide
17:23:26  <Jiri> or these openGFX
17:24:16  <Alberth> OpenGFX and Zbase can't be used at the same time, as you can have only one baseset at a time
17:24:33  <Alberth> maybe you mean the various opengfx+...  NewGRFs ?
17:24:54  <Jiri>
17:25:14  <Jiri> look the picture maybe that will clarify the situation
17:25:22  <Alberth> I know what you mean
17:25:42  <Alberth> airport and iron ore mine are fine, the city looks like crap  :p
17:25:43  <Jiri> but like loading screen all the roads and airport are importet to 32 bit graffics
17:26:19  <Alberth> if you want 32bit everywhere, don't play with newgrfs that do not have 32bit graphics
17:26:30  <Alberth> loading screen has no newgrfs at all
17:27:25  <Alberth>
17:29:14  <Alberth> you're likely confused by opengfx+industries and opengfx+airports
17:29:58  <Alberth> they are 8bit newgrfs, but use default (8 bit) graphics, so it looks like it's part of the baseset, but they are not
17:30:18  <Jiri> might be
17:30:29  <Jiri> i just wanted that the game look little bit better.
17:30:59  <Alberth> start a game without those two newgrfs, and see if that solves your problem
17:31:00  <Jiri> so i donwload and install like this set?
17:31:46  <Alberth> I don't know, do you need more vehicles?
17:31:56  <Alberth> I never played with eGRVTS
17:33:08  <Jiri> i don't want new vehicles but nice looking roads
17:33:26  <Jiri> please explain me how i will have 32 bit roads
17:34:47  <Jiri> i think i got it now, i have to donwload abase set
17:34:53  <Jiri> for zbase
17:35:03  <Jiri> that was confusing
17:35:19  <Alberth> zbase has 32bit roads
17:35:54  <Alberth> buit don't load newgrfs that are not 32bit
17:37:27  <Jiri> then why i don't see these 32 bit roads?
17:37:39  <Jiri> i still don't understand
17:37:50  <Alberth> have you tried a game without any newgrf ?
17:37:58  <Alberth> ie only zbase baseset
17:37:59  <Jiri> do i have to delete these newgrfs
17:38:05  <supermop> Jiri: you have a newgrf that adds 8 bit road graphics
17:38:16  <Alberth> no, just deactivate them
17:38:21  <supermop> no just do not load them in a game
17:38:23  <Jiri> yeah
17:38:40  <Jiri> thanks guys i got i working now
17:38:42  <supermop> in your picture it looks like you have UK roads
17:38:51  <supermop> which has 8 bit graphics
17:38:57  <Jiri> i tried to "upgrade" them
17:39:04  <supermop> andythenorth: et al, are things at a point yet where someone, possibly even myself, can make a NRT road grf?
17:39:45  <Alberth> Jiri: lots of artists are not here any more, or don't do 32bit
17:39:46  <supermop> i have sprites for melbourne inspired roads sitting on a hdd
17:40:01  <Jiri> yes i understand
17:40:15  <Jiri> but why not default use the zbase.
17:40:26  <Jiri> if you donwload the game today
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17:40:36  <supermop> Jiri: most people do not like zbase
17:40:41  <supermop> they think it is ugly
17:40:54  <Jiri> comparing the newgrf?
17:41:02  <Alberth> no, baseset
17:41:03  <supermop> notice how all of the buildings look flat and dead
17:43:03  <supermop> zephyris made zbase as a test to try to make a 32bit base set, because at that time there were no other complete sets that used 32bit
17:43:48  <Alberth> Jiri: compare left column pictures with right column pictures
17:44:02  <Alberth> left column is a lot like what zbase is now
17:44:23  <Alberth> right column is infinitely better
17:44:43  <Jiri> agreed
17:45:19  <Alberth> 8bit graphics are much closer to the right column, so many people prefer that over the left column
17:45:20  <supermop> zbase is just basic example of 32bit, it is not finished with texture like the right column
17:46:30  <supermop> also, the original game is from 1994 - and the 8 bit graphics capture the spirit of that time, which many people enjoy
17:48:30  <Jiri> i think everyone how now a days downlaod this game has played in their childhood
17:48:59  <Jiri> but the orginal 94 game is totally different allready. so many good changes has happened since that
17:49:03  <Jiri> with openttd
17:50:08  <supermop> Jiri: yes, but not many artists enjoy making 32bit graphics, so there are very few of them
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17:51:01  <Jiri> i can understand
17:51:07  <andythenorth> supermop: you could make an NRT grf, if you can install the nml fork
17:51:12  <andythenorth> not sure that’s trivial on windows
17:51:21  <LordAro> also, zbase baseset is *massive* download
17:51:42  <LordAro> isn't it 400MB or so?
17:51:46  <Jiri> 290
17:51:47  <supermop> if you use basic 3d model and basic rendering, you end up with huge file size, but still dead look
17:52:03  <Jiri> well rawr and yeti both are about the same
17:52:18  <supermop> so you need to use professional technique to make better graphics
17:52:40  <LordAro> even so, it's a far cry from the ~10MB download for the game itself
17:52:51  <supermop> Jiri: V453000 is a professional graphic artist with professional rendering software and experience
17:53:43  <peter1139> zbase is not very pleasant.
17:53:53  <supermop> most artists for openttd do not have that experience
17:54:02  <Alberth> hi hi  LordAro
17:54:06  <LordAro> o7
17:54:06  <Alberth> /me waves
17:54:20  <LordAro> still not fixed those ACTIONs, i see :)
17:54:38  <Alberth> clearly :)
17:54:45  <supermop> even i am a professional architect who uses professional software, and I do not have the experience to do production like V453000
17:55:21  <LordAro> there definitely used to be more 32bpp artists
17:55:36  <peter1139> so why does openttd's cursor disappear in windows?
17:55:37  <LordAro> i tried to organise them all, once upon a time
17:56:32  <LordAro> iirc, several of them got scared off when some licencing snaffu happened
17:57:05  <supermop> andythenorth: can i just put together sprite sheet and try to write some code and give to someone to compile?
17:58:25  <Jiri> thanks guys i will no test different types graffics but yeti and rawr look nice
17:58:29  <Jiri> see you byt.
17:58:32  <Jiri> bye
17:58:40  <supermop> Wolf01: do your country roads have the ability to use different decorations?
17:59:03  <supermop> ie can sidewalk/tree/lamp graphics vary by road type?
17:59:54  <Wolf01> Roadtypes define all, you should be able to define a different subset of graphics to use outside towns, no other changes like speed limits, only graphics
18:01:35  <supermop> can towns build only the default roadtype?
18:01:40  <Wolf01> Yes
18:01:44  <supermop> hmm
18:01:51  <Wolf01> Or the one which replaces it
18:02:49  <supermop> so they cannot build dirt roads on edges of town and paved inside town - they can only build a road that looks like dirt outside and looks like paved inside
18:03:38  <Wolf01> If you make a roadtype like that, yes
18:03:49  <Wolf01> But I didn't try to replace the default one yet
18:03:54  <Wolf01> Ask andythenorth :P
18:04:03  <supermop> separate from ideas to make a grf with sprites i have already, i was thinking about the dirt/stone -> asphalt problem
18:04:04  <Alberth> and create all kinds of compatibility issues with vehicles entering or leaving? that sounds like a bad idea
18:04:43  <Wolf01> No Alberth, it's the same roadtype, only with different graphics
18:04:57  <supermop> currently road new grfs just fake it and you have to reload save after some date to go from old to new
18:05:13  <supermop> but what if you could set a property for town prefernce
18:05:26  <Alberth> Wolf01: I know, and I think that's a good decision, I am arguing against different road types
18:05:47  <Wolf01> You can already wall-in a city with HAUL
18:06:18  <supermop> so town prefers aphalt most, stone next, and dirt least
18:06:39  <supermop> but in year 0 only dirt exists
18:06:42  <Wolf01> supermop, there's no concept of asphalt, stone, dirt and never will be
18:07:02  <Wolf01> There's a concept of road/tramway and speed limit
18:07:21  <Wolf01> A town could prefer a roadtype with 50kmh speed limit or one with 70kmh
18:07:25  <supermop> a road grf could introduce three types of road with different speed limits that look like those
18:08:03  <supermop> and set them so that a town prefers to build the 'asphalt' one once it becomes available?
18:08:34  <supermop> iff a town has the choice to build from more than one type of road
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18:09:04  <supermop> or is this crazy?
18:09:30  <Alberth> how does it decide?
18:09:50  <Wolf01> Will require too many changes right now, and it's out of the scope of NRT
18:09:50  <Alberth> or, what prevents it from just picking one all the time
18:09:53  <peter1139> yay ivor
18:10:09  <supermop> Alberth: set a value for each type that town prefers
18:10:29  <supermop> prefers modern road the most, but it is not available until modern times
18:10:31  <Alberth> that doesn't exist
18:10:35  <supermop> so it build the old road
18:10:47  <supermop> Alberth: i know, but was wondering if it could
18:10:53  <Alberth> unless your newgrf provides it
18:11:12  <Alberth> but there is still 1 roadtype today
18:11:32  <supermop> Alberth: so now town always builds 1 type
18:11:45  <Alberth> every town builds the same type
18:12:15  <supermop> but maybe a newgrf provides two types of roads, so all towns build type 1 until some date, then they build type 2
18:12:17  <Alberth> you can change graphics though, as far as I understand it
18:12:40  <supermop> but not speedlimit
18:12:42  <Alberth> like I said, hello world of compatibility issues
18:13:01  <Alberth> but it's also not existing
18:13:39  <supermop> why does, say, increasing speed limit of town built roads in 1910, cause compatibility trouble?
18:14:00  <Alberth> who says you'd have to use compatible road types?
18:14:10  <supermop> alberth no one does
18:14:12  <Alberth> each road type is separate
18:14:40  <supermop> a newgrf author can make today a rail grf that no train can ever run on
18:15:08  <Alberth> and you want that in a city, where it changes without a player control?
18:15:18  <Alberth> how is that good game play?
18:15:43  <supermop> hows is that rail grf good? i just choose not to use a newgrf that was made in bad faith
18:16:10  <Alberth> I put rail down myself
18:16:17  <Alberth> it doesn't change by itself
18:16:43  <supermop> a road speed limit increasing by itself does not hurt the player
18:17:06  <Alberth> I am not saying there are no good examples
18:17:23  <supermop> if the grf provides a 2nd road type incompatible from the first, i choose not to play with that grf
18:17:24  <Alberth> I am saying there are also a lot of troublesome counter examples
18:18:01  <supermop> i can make a road grf that changes all road to bright flashing magenta in 1992
18:18:05  <supermop> but no one would use it
18:18:42  <Alberth> most people wouldn't even see it :p
18:19:01  <Alberth> in current openttd, at least
18:19:16  <Alberth> afk
18:19:53  <supermop> i can also make a town grf that provides 0 population in every house available  from 1990 onwards
18:20:17  <supermop> so without my control, all of my passenger stations become worthless
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18:45:48  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27717 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2016-12-29 19:45:38 +0100 )
18:45:49  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:50  <DorpsGek> spanish: 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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18:52:37  <Alberth> yeah, well ok
18:58:47  <supermop> are bus stop graphics going to be per road grf, or by base set?
19:04:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think bus stops will change with this patch
19:06:04  <supermop> just wondering if i can change how they look on a per-type basis
19:11:01  <Eddi|zuHause> not unless you want to implement newgrf road stations (including state machines)
19:15:57  <peter1139> ^
19:16:41  <Rubidium> just have state machines for everything then ;)
19:16:49  <peter1139> doesn't make sense to make 2 ways to change them
19:18:17  <Rubidium> so you can have platforms on one side of the tile and the track on the other, or even a siding on one half of the tile with the main track on the other side
19:18:57  <Rubidium> all, ofcourse, including signals and arbitrary z-height changes
19:22:32  <peter1139> well
19:22:48  <peter1139> might as well wait for Wolf01's new version
19:27:51  <Wolf01> Sure, junctions in the middle of a station
19:35:51  <andythenorth> supermop: sorry I am afk for rest of day, can’t answer nml questions
19:35:53  <andythenorth> bye also
19:35:56  <andythenorth> :)
19:36:04  <supermop> Antheus: np
19:36:07  <supermop> oops
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19:36:37  <supermop> sorry to guy who is one tab before andy
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19:55:31  <Eddi|zuHause> why is athat even? is your tab not in alphabetical order?
19:57:41  <supermop> maybe i tabbed too much
20:01:21  <supermop> hmm what my little harbour needs is tramway on isr or chips style tiles
20:13:50  <supermop> i wonder, if a big heavy truck drives to an industry where all the ground is cobblestones, does the truck drive on the cobbles? or do they have some concrete path for it
20:16:37  <Eddi|zuHause> what does the cobble have to do with that?
20:17:39  <Eddi|zuHause> for heavy trucks you want to have a sturdy underconstruction
20:18:00  <Eddi|zuHause> and concrete probably wears off quicker than cobbles
20:20:05  <supermop> if you had a road type that was a tile of cobblestones, you need some kind of visual marker to show where the RVs can actually drive
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20:21:07  <supermop> if it was regular road graphics in the center and cobblestones at the tile edges, it would blend with the rest of the industry or harbour, but would look silly
20:21:19  <supermop> a tramway on cobblestone is easy
20:23:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand the problem
20:24:42  <supermop> lets say i want to make a road grf that adds a new road type: cobbled yard
20:25:06  <supermop> i want the road to look like a full tile of cobblestones, with no grass at the sides
20:25:49  <supermop> so i can build a fancy harbour or whatever and it looks like the trucks are driving around some industrial complex
20:26:34  <supermop> if the road is a full tile of stones, there is no way for the player to tell what road bits are there or connected
20:27:09  <supermop> if it was a full tile of concrete, maybe you paint some stripes on it, but that might look bad on cobblestone
20:29:17  <Eddi|zuHause> there are cobble roads with a different type of cobble where the wheels of a car would go... but i can't find a picture of that
20:30:52  <supermop> like maybe a darker stone there?
20:31:36  <supermop> maybe i could put some gutters at the 'road' edge
20:34:54  <Eddi|zuHause> not exactly what i mean, but maybe this comes closest
20:39:12  <supermop> yeah
20:39:55  <supermop> i think having them under wheels bight make them look too much like tram tracks, but if i just do the outside edges, that should work
20:40:13  <Eddi|zuHause> under the wheels should be darker
20:41:51  <supermop> hmm the isr gravel shows some of the groundtile through
20:41:55  <Eddi|zuHause> or make the whole lane out of the darker cobbles
20:42:03  <supermop> i wonder if that will be a problem
21:24:40  <lorran78> hello!
21:25:13  <lorran78> i managed to change introduction date from all type of original vehicules...
21:26:19  <lorran78> but i wanted now to make a grf with all vehicle without using opengfx+ but it seems it doesn't work
21:28:54  <__ln__> @seen SmatZ
21:28:54  <DorpsGek> __ln__: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 21 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <SmatZ> wish I were so lucky...
21:29:08  <__ln__> @seen Yexo
21:29:08  <DorpsGek> __ln__: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 4 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours, 12 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
21:29:13  <lorran78> i tried opengfx+ first in the list of grf and end
21:29:22  <lorran78> but same my vehicle are twice :/
21:30:01  <Eddi|zuHause> lorran78: you need the "override vehicles of other grf" feature, look it up on the wiki
21:30:13  <lorran78> oh cool
21:33:28  <lorran78> i am searching
21:36:32  <lorran78> it's a parameter i must add?
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22:48:20  <__ln__> anyone been to Seattle?
22:53:08  <Supercheese> yeah been a few times
22:53:12  <Supercheese> the monorail is reeeally short
22:53:22  <Supercheese> like, you almost might as well walk
22:53:48  <lorran78> eddi ? i can't find something about override
22:54:31  <lorran78> and i have a question when i override it override only the property i set or it's reset all properties and put only mine?
22:54:52  <__ln__> is it an interesting place to visit otherwise?
22:57:47  <__ln__> and is there something to see about boeing?
22:59:25  <supermop> __ln__: its a decent city
22:59:43  <supermop> there are plenty of good food and drink spots
23:00:21  <supermop> i would mostly recommend it to live in rather than visit, but there are lots to do around there as well
23:00:49  <supermop> san juan islands olympic peninsula, etc
23:01:18  <supermop> cool architecture and shops in the city
23:01:37  <supermop> lot of my friends from high school and university live there now
23:01:50  <supermop> as well as some of my wife's cousins
23:03:56  <supermop> if you are going to be in Washington State anyway i'd definitely recommend visiting
23:04:43  *** mazert has quit IRC
23:05:23  <__ln__> i'm in a stage of finding out ideas where to go next, while the timeframe for implementing such trips is probably a few years in the future at least
23:08:22  <__ln__> Washington is one of the 42 states i have not been to yet
23:12:49  <supermop> well might as well go
23:13:24  <supermop> but depending on where you are coming from i would try to incorporate other stuff in washington besides just seattle
23:14:19  <supermop> when i was a kid we occasionally took ~2 wk trips to visit my aunt in oregon, where we would drive from oregon to washington
23:15:28  <supermop> including both time in cities like portland and seattle, as well as lots of time in the mountains, high desert, temperate rainforest, coast etc
23:16:14  <supermop> if you have not spent much time in the northwest, that's the type of trip i would suggest
23:17:12  <__ln__> sounds cool
23:17:38  <supermop> i suggest to do it in sumer when it is not raining
23:17:56  <lorran78> Eddi|zuHause: ?
23:17:58  <supermop> where will you be flying in from?
23:18:20  <supermop> lorran78: he might actually be asleep
23:18:43  <__ln__> finland
23:19:19  <supermop> how long will you be in the US
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23:20:07  <__ln__> well, since i don't have a concrete plan yet, can't say for sure, but ~2 weeks could be realistic.
23:21:39  <lorran78> LOL
23:23:22  <Wolf01> So, I forked ottd... to make my one with supreme 3d graphics, blackjack and hookers
23:24:00  <Wolf01> Just kidding... I'm doing a "backup" of my patches
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23:27:35  <__ln__> speaking of sleeping, gotta do that too, now
23:27:41  <Wolf01> Me too
23:29:45  <Wolf01> nn
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