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00:04:47 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 01:01:38 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, growth is handled differently for towns and cities, and the number of stations might be different as well 01:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll be more difficult to factor in geographic limitations like terrain blocked by tracks or mountains 01:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and you're basically doomed if a game script comes into play 01:47:16 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 01:50:36 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttd 01:50:36 *** gelignite has quit IRC 01:51:45 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 01:51:49 *** gelignite_ is now known as gelignite 02:19:50 *** justiceBEAVER has joined #openttd 02:37:42 *** justiceBEAVER has quit IRC 02:46:20 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 02:56:33 *** gelignite has quit IRC 03:15:44 *** glx has quit IRC 04:14:28 *** ephja has quit IRC 05:28:46 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 05:40:24 *** BlackFox has joined #openttd 05:41:00 <BlackFox> Hi, I've got a quick question. Can I stockpile resources on some station (that doesn't accept anything) and will they dissapear if I leave them there? 05:42:13 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 06:28:25 *** Plaete has joined #openttd 06:32:55 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:37:33 <Lejving> can't say for sure BlackFox but I think they'll eventually just disappear yes 06:41:41 *** Plaete2 has joined #openttd 06:47:20 *** Plaete has quit IRC 06:58:56 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 06:58:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 07:26:58 *** adf88 has joined #openttd 07:32:16 *** gpsoft has joined #openttd 07:33:38 *** Plaete has joined #openttd 07:38:52 *** Plaete3 has joined #openttd 07:39:25 *** Plaete2 has quit IRC 07:41:35 *** Jinassi has quit IRC 07:44:20 *** Plaete has quit IRC 07:55:01 *** Snail has quit IRC 07:55:29 *** Snail has joined #openttd 07:55:57 *** Snail has joined #openttd 07:55:58 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 07:56:35 *** Snail has quit IRC 07:56:47 *** Snail has joined #openttd 07:57:24 *** Snail has quit IRC 07:57:55 *** Snail has joined #openttd 07:58:41 *** Snail has joined #openttd 07:59:01 *** Snail has quit IRC 07:59:23 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:00:13 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:01:11 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:01:59 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:02:30 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 08:02:47 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:03:05 *** Snail has quit IRC 08:03:35 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:04:23 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:05:11 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:05:59 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:06:47 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:07:05 *** Snail has quit IRC 08:07:35 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:08:23 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:09:11 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:09:49 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:10:03 *** efess has quit IRC 08:10:17 *** Snail has quit IRC 08:10:37 *** Snail has joined #openttd 08:11:05 *** Snail has quit IRC 08:11:39 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:14:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:17:11 <BlackFox> Lejving: they do dissapear, and it's kinda sucky 08:17:18 <BlackFox> I was going to stockpile tons of oil for the future 08:17:25 <Lejving> ah :( 08:17:50 <Lejving> should be a setting for that 08:17:58 <Lejving> I think that about all the things though =) 08:27:11 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 08:29:09 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 08:33:58 <Alberth> o/ andy 08:34:24 <Alberth> and we have too many settings already :) 08:35:18 <adf88> what's the status of "stop accepting cargo button" ? 08:35:50 <adf88> do you know if anyone is working on it 08:35:50 <adf88> ? 08:35:52 * andythenorth needs a ‘close dock’ button :P 08:36:00 <andythenorth> adf88: almost nothing is being worked on :) 08:36:18 <adf88> ok ;) 08:36:46 <andythenorth> that’s not a bad thing 08:36:49 <andythenorth> but eh 08:37:17 <andythenorth> there are a lot of code quality things being committed https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=shortlog 08:37:47 <adf88> iknow, i keep track of all changes 08:38:15 <adf88> I have an atom feed on the trunk repo :) 08:38:25 <andythenorth> you have a stack of patches somewhere too? 08:39:24 <adf88> I post all patches on tt-forum 08:40:54 <adf88> an idea came to my mind some time ago 08:41:18 <adf88> ability to refit any vehicle to "void" cargo 08:42:13 <adf88> e.g. you could refit a PAX loco to void to prevent taking PAX from a given station 08:42:34 <adf88> what do you thing? 08:46:30 <Lejving> why not checkboxes? [ ] Wood [ X ] Passengers [ X ] Goods [ ] Copper ore 08:46:34 <Lejving> in the station window 08:47:12 <andythenorth> ‘no loading’ doesn’t perform same result? o_O 08:47:52 *** gelignite has quit IRC 08:47:59 <adf88> "no loding PAX but load other" would do... 08:48:49 <adf88> but you can't set loading options on certain type of cargo 08:49:17 <adf88> i realized something :) 08:49:26 <adf88> this is not a way to go 08:49:29 <adf88> :) 08:49:38 <adf88> forget it... 08:49:49 <Lejving> sorry already commited 08:49:51 <Lejving> can't reverse! 08:51:10 <adf88> until we can set refit-at-station order to certain wagons this wouldn't be much of use 08:51:40 <adf88> and ability to set refit options to individual wagons would be too complicated 08:52:13 <andythenorth> I’ve seen the gui for it in other games 08:52:19 <andythenorth> but we’d need a rework 08:52:29 <andythenorth> it would require depot gui + refit orders gui combined 08:52:49 <andythenorth> and it won’t transcend shared orders across different consists 08:53:12 <andythenorth> so all consists in a shared order set would need to be identical 08:53:50 <andythenorth> it’s a big change, and probably, on balance better 08:54:03 <andythenorth> but removing the old shared orders system would be way too much social drama 09:08:43 <andythenorth> Alberth: any chance you could check this out and see if it builds? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/unsinkable-sam/repository 09:08:50 <andythenorth> it’s failing on Jenkins https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/unsinkable-sam/93/console 09:16:28 <Lejving> how much involved do you need to be to be adding commits to openttd? 09:16:52 <Lejving> been thinking I wanted to try contribute but not sure if I want to dedicate my life to it :P 09:17:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 09:20:14 <Alberth> adf88: stations stop accepting by themselves nowadays, after a year or 2 09:20:56 <Alberth> andythenorth: I'll try 09:22:02 <adf88> yes, I know 09:22:17 <adf88> actually the most problematic is the situation 09:22:27 <adf88> when you play on a online game 09:22:38 <adf88> which has vanilla trains 09:22:42 <Alberth> andythenorth: how do you build? 09:23:00 <adf88> and your loco want to take passangers 09:23:12 <adf88> even thought you don't wan't it 09:23:52 <adf88> and there is no simle way to prevent it 09:24:04 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 09:25:09 <andythenorth> Alberth: python 3.4, I just run make 09:26:41 <Alberth> oh, I have chameleon not installed 09:26:52 <andythenorth> sorry, there are some deps :P 09:27:49 <Alberth> adf88: yep, I think the only way out is to make orders more precise, by splitting them into smaller pieces, so you can have a number of orders for loading/unloading at the same station 09:28:40 <adf88> that would do too 09:28:40 <adf88> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1108919#p1108919 09:32:33 <adf88> however, it seems a bit overcomplicated 09:32:45 <adf88> i'm not sure if this is the right way to go 09:33:48 <adf88> another, simpler way would be to allow to refit to a "void" cargo 09:34:37 <andythenorth> Lejving: to get anything good into the game takes a bit of dedication :) 09:35:12 <Lejving> heh RIP irl then 09:35:47 <Alberth> andythenorth: Only persistent error is 09:35:47 <Alberth> make: *** No rule to make target 'docs/license.txt', needed by 'doc'. Stop. 09:36:06 <andythenorth> Alberth: python 3.4? 09:36:58 <Alberth> 3.5 09:37:16 <andythenorth> dunno what Jenkins uses 09:37:47 <andythenorth> Road Hog and Iron Horse have similar code, which doesn’t fail 09:37:56 <andythenorth> I’ll have to see what’s different there :) 09:37:57 <andythenorth> thanks 09:38:17 <Alberth> andythenorth: at least if you specify "python3" everywhere in the build 09:39:20 <Alberth> make the "docs/license.txt" target work? 09:39:45 <andythenorth> I will 09:39:51 <andythenorth> biab ;) 09:39:59 <Alberth> add a "python --version as command in the makefikle 09:40:08 *** Plaete3 is now known as Plaete 09:40:23 <Alberth> so it echoes its version to the output 09:44:05 <Alberth> adf88: well, at low level, you don't want to bolt more stuff onto the existing orders, so breaking it up seems the right direction. How to display that to a user will be a major problem then, as you're basically free to do anything you like 09:45:14 <Alberth> but anyway, with vanilla, you're pretty much doomed 09:48:06 <Alberth> I am not sure what the problem in MP is, why vanilla is so popular. Sure some people are clueless about pressing "download missing stuff", but that should be fixable with a single entry page, or existing users helping? 09:48:06 <Alberth> Is it maybe that a different trainset upsets people? Are there servers with eg OpenGfx+ newgrfs? those should not have that problem 09:50:59 <adf88> yep, vanilla veh set is popular 09:52:07 <adf88> do you suggest to change this fact? :D 09:52:11 <Alberth> I play with it a lot too 09:52:32 <Alberth> no, I am just wondering why it is 09:53:52 <Alberth> there is a download button, where you can just download what you are missing, if it's on bananas 09:54:08 <Alberth> but apparently this is not working in some way 09:54:39 <Alberth> I can see new users would play vanilla, the game is big enough to play for years with it 09:54:58 <adf88> this puzzels me too 09:54:58 <Alberth> maybe they never realize download stuff exists at all 09:55:21 <adf88> these alternative sets are really great 09:55:50 <Alberth> well, it assumes you have an active interest in the game, I think 09:56:05 <Alberth> if you're a casual gamer, you don't have that 09:56:24 <Alberth> or you assume "the game handles everything", which is not true 09:57:21 <Alberth> on the other hand, reddit uses FIRS at least, and I heard it's a popular server too 09:58:08 <Alberth> but perhaps a different audience 10:00:23 <adf88> in this moment, 6 out of 10 most peopled servers don't use GRF's at all... 10:01:49 <Alberth> it may depend on what you aim for 10:02:02 <Alberth> I also hardly use newgrfs 10:02:32 <Alberth> but I play for making a network for industrial cargo 10:04:56 *** efess has joined #openttd 10:05:04 <Alberth> so Nuts and Firs are interesting, Squid for ships, and Chips for platforms 10:05:35 <adf88> almost classic :) 10:05:35 <Alberth> where alternative trains are Iron horse, or OpenGFX+trains 10:05:43 <Alberth> and that's about it 10:06:36 <andythenorth> ach Jenkins uses python 3.2.3 10:06:44 <andythenorth> and my python 3.2 is currently broken 10:07:35 <Alberth> mostly the thing I am missing is a fast backbone train, eg maglev, around 1930-2000, for experiments with map-wide feeders 10:08:17 <andythenorth> when I started playing openttd, I didn’t use grfs for about 4 years 10:08:24 <andythenorth> I thought they were hacks and would break my game 10:08:33 <andythenorth> FWIW 10:09:17 <Alberth> :) 10:09:57 <SpComb> GRFs are hard because you have to choose 10:10:46 <Alberth> good point, no simple way to decide what a random GRF provides 10:11:27 * andythenorth https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnOgEYtWcAApmTg.jpg 10:11:43 <michi_cc> The biggest problem with NewGRFs is that they aren't called mods ;P 10:11:47 <andythenorth> debugging a remote Jenkins is hard :P 10:12:31 <andythenorth> Feature: ‘NewGRF’ is now ‘mod’ 10:12:46 <Alberth> game script is "mod" 10:12:50 <Alberth> AI is "mod" 10:12:52 <Alberth> :) 10:14:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: it doesn't output the Python error? 10:14:51 <andythenorth> it does yes 10:15:05 <andythenorth> https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/unsinkable-sam/94/console 10:15:11 <andythenorth> I’m trying to pickle a PIL module 10:15:15 <andythenorth> which works elsewhere 10:16:04 <Alberth> why would you want to do that? 10:16:43 <andythenorth> I have no explicit reason 10:16:54 <andythenorth> “I’m trying” = my code apparently does that 10:17:03 <Alberth> ha :P 10:17:25 <andythenorth> I know why the pickle is there 10:17:50 <andythenorth> I don’t know why ImagingCore needs to be pickled with my ship object 10:18:16 <Alberth> self.sprites = sprites 10:23:02 <adf88> "they aren't called mods" - don't laugh, it's a real problem actually 10:23:23 <adf88> my suggestion: "NewGRF" -> "NewGRF add-on" 10:25:51 <andythenorth> ach, removing the ‘raise’ lets Jenkins build 10:26:03 <andythenorth> but the pickle still fails 10:26:10 <andythenorth> nothing changed there :P 10:26:19 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 10:31:56 <andythenorth> reading the pickle bugs in python 3.2 is a long way from drawing ships eh? o_O 10:33:46 <SpComb> tsk, it's 2017 and still no new dbset releases! 10:33:55 <V453000> xd 10:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Lejving: you need to keep the rating above 50% so cargo does not disappear 10:36:38 *** BlackFox has quit IRC 10:37:02 <Alberth> andythenorth: pickle is quite discouraged, json or yaml is much more encouraged 10:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: <insert joke about 16.16.16 joke here> 10:42:58 *** keoz has joined #openttd 10:43:08 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that's still 4 months away ;) 10:47:18 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 11:00:06 <SpComb> openttd really needs some community-curated newgrf bundles 11:02:44 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: all that is needed for that is bananas to allow uploading/downloading newgrf presets 11:06:27 <SpComb> like if I want to try FIRS 2, it seems like DBSet is out of the question 11:06:29 <Alberth> and a website so you can read about them 11:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: you could always customize the dbset firs/ecs extension grfs 11:08:46 *** Arveen has quit IRC 11:08:50 <SpComb> not going down that rabbit hole 11:11:40 <andythenorth> Alberth: pickle is used by multiprocessing :) 11:11:54 <andythenorth> I’m only using at as a guard, to find out ahead of time if multiprocessing is going to barf 11:12:36 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 11:20:10 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 11:36:28 <SpComb> the 2cc 2.0-alpha1 default train list is way too long.. 11:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause> then don't try CETS with all options enabled :p 11:37:00 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:37:38 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 11:42:47 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:45:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27726 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2017-01-08 12:45:08 +0100 ) 11:45:17 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Improve error message when trying to build rail track over a depot. (adf88) 11:47:12 *** Plaete2 has joined #openttd 11:50:47 *** tokai has joined #openttd 11:50:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 11:52:40 *** Plaete3 has joined #openttd 11:53:11 *** Plaete4 has joined #openttd 11:53:15 *** Plaete has quit IRC 11:59:20 *** Plaete2 has quit IRC 12:00:45 *** Plaete3 has quit IRC 12:01:14 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 12:07:53 *** Plaete5 has joined #openttd 12:13:30 *** Plaete4 has quit IRC 12:16:24 *** Plaete5 has quit IRC 12:26:19 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 12:26:29 <Wolf01> Moin 12:32:13 <andythenorth> lo Wolf01 12:33:08 <Alberth> o/ 12:36:11 <andythenorth> meanwhile http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/unsinkable-sam/push/LATEST/docs/html/ships.html 12:43:12 <Wolf01> The 1870 large freighter is wip, I hope 12:43:30 <Wolf01> Ok, they are all 1870 12:43:48 <Wolf01> Nice small tanker 12:50:49 <andythenorth> unfinished magic :) 12:50:50 * andythenorth bbl 12:50:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:51:29 <frosch123> Wolf01: the headlines on the intro page even mention it: Intro dates 1870-1870 12:51:48 <Wolf01> TL;DR :P 12:55:16 *** adf89 has joined #openttd 12:57:50 *** adf88 has quit IRC 12:58:06 <SpComb> but myes, combining multiple NewGRFs, with multiple different variants of the same NewGRF released over more than 10 years, is hard 12:59:31 <SpComb> in terms of compatibility/interactions between different NewGRFs... I guess that mostly affects non-standard industry sets 12:59:48 <SpComb> I'm almost convinced that the right thing to do is just play with MB's GRFs and ignore everything else :P 13:01:13 <SpComb> DBSetXL + Alpine + newstations + Raichase's dbset play guide = best gameplay ever 13:02:56 <SpComb> http://users.qmsk.net/~terom/openttd/dbsetxlguide/ make that Uwe's guide 13:03:21 <frosch123> i think you should play with "alpine" for once 13:03:30 <frosch123> that should be punishment enough for you 13:04:00 <SpComb> there was something flawed with alpine, I can't exactly remember what 13:04:11 <frosch123> :) 13:04:29 <SpComb> but it's a single, coherent gameplay, not exactly easy to achieve if you just start combining random NewGRFs 13:08:11 <SpComb> there's just too many to choose from, and you don't know what fits together 13:17:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 13:18:03 <Alberth> what more excuse do you need to play OpenTTD? 13:18:21 <Alberth> ie test! 13:21:24 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 13:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i think some buildings in alpine were buggy, the snowy version just sinks into the ground, and some pavements are missing 13:27:50 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 13:29:08 <Alberth> Should there be anything that #define OPENTTD_MSU ? 13:29:38 <Alberth> files only have #ifndef OPENTTD_MSU 13:30:55 <frosch123> huh? 13:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: sounds like something that would come from ./configure 13:32:10 <frosch123> ah, check svn://svn.openttd.org/extra/masterserver_updater 13:32:18 <frosch123> trunk/src/network/core is an external there 13:32:29 <frosch123> "core" is shared between openttd and the master server stuff 13:34:29 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yes, I thought so too, but a global recursive grep proved otherwise :) 13:34:48 <Alberth> frosch123: :o even more code :) 13:58:20 <frosch123> your grep was not global enough :p 13:58:30 <Alberth> :D 14:00:07 <Eddi|zuHause> checking that would have been my next suggestion 14:03:38 <Alberth> a scary lot of newgrf code seems to assume that filenames are unique 14:11:32 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd 14:16:37 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pzafzgnpd?/pzafzgnpd <- i am not sure whether that improves the comments 14:17:16 <frosch123> there are currently 3 constants which kind of define the maximum number of newgrf 14:17:47 <frosch123> this diff removes one, and turns another one into something else: one limit for real newgrf, one limit for all newgrf including static ones 14:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause> does "static" include the baseset? 14:23:57 <frosch123> in that context, yes 14:24:43 *** Ox4 has quit IRC 14:24:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and how much does this destroy patches that increase the grf limit (for single-player purposes)? 14:25:34 <frosch123> they need to modify the @9277 hunk instead 14:25:53 <frosch123> but yes, those 1-line patches need to be rewritten :) 14:26:18 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 14:26:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "cannot be used for any long-term usage." sounds odd 14:30:41 <Alberth> if (num_non_static == NETWORK_MAX_GRF_COUNT) { <-- make that >= ? 14:31:06 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 14:33:31 <Alberth> also, src/newgrf.cpp now has 2 "is not loaded as the maximum number of GRFs has been reached" for different limits, bit of rewording would be nice 14:34:03 <frosch123> yup, any good idea for a message? :) 14:34:25 <Alberth> max number of file slots would be one 14:35:27 <Alberth> perhaps not even mention "max number of GRFs" there 14:36:05 <Alberth> other one would be smthing like "max network packet size" ? 14:36:16 <frosch123> well, i can change the DEBUG, not problem. it's a technical message 14:36:19 <frosch123> i wonder more about 14:36:23 <frosch123> STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_TOO_MANY_NEWGRFS_LOADED :Too many NewGRFs are loaded 14:36:38 <Alberth> although if the first one becomes slots, the second doesn't need to be changed 14:37:08 <Alberth> right, keep the network limit as "too many newgrfs" :) 14:37:12 <frosch123> "too many newgrf" vs. "too many static newgrf"? 14:37:27 <frosch123> "too many newgrf" vs. "too many open files"? 14:37:49 <frosch123> though it's only about newgrf 14:40:21 <Alberth> yes, newgrf_gui mesg could also happen without static newgrf, by the looks of it 14:40:58 <Alberth> "too many open files" could also be a system message, better keep some opentdd-ish in there, imho 14:44:46 <SpComb> UKRS2 running costs are high :( 14:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, some people make masochistic difficulty like that 14:47:31 <Alberth> oh, I found your 62 :) 14:47:43 <frosch123> i removed it last night 14:48:07 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 14:58:01 *** Myhorta has quit IRC 15:02:37 <Alberth> Oh, we also have GRFFile things 15:03:11 <Alberth> more unique filename assumptions :p 15:08:53 <V453000> yo humenz 15:08:54 <V453000> wat new 15:09:41 <Alberth> less magic "62" numbers in openttd source code 15:16:11 <V453000> is 62 some special hentai secret? 15:18:32 <ZirconiumX> <V453000> is 62 some special hentai secret? 15:18:39 <ZirconiumX> No context. 15:21:45 <LordAro> i mean, the last context was about 48 hours ago, so.. 15:22:52 <NGC3982> Trains. 15:28:03 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 15:32:36 <V453000> gg 15:32:52 <adf89> "The anser is 42" :D 15:32:58 <adf89> answer 15:34:41 <adf89> i just released new Polyline tool 15:34:54 <adf89> check out if you like 15:35:03 <adf89> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=57080 15:35:12 <frosch123> anything different? or just maintenance? 15:35:34 <adf89> a ;ittle 15:35:38 <adf89> litlle 15:35:42 <adf89> damn 15:35:45 <adf89> little 15:36:02 <adf89> "After placing a rail track at tunnel/bridge/station entrance, snapping will be carried over, up to the other end." 15:36:11 <adf89> "After build a rail station you can snap new rail track to it (CTRL-click the polyline button or press CTRL+A)." 15:36:37 <LordAro> that thread's so old it has a post by me in it 15:37:30 <Wolf01> Good news adf88+1 15:39:02 <Wolf01> I would like to have it as default autorail behaviour, there is too much CTRL in this game 15:39:35 <adf89> I still use original autorail a lot 15:40:42 <adf89> I hae no idea how could the two tool be integrated into one 15:41:02 <adf89> besies http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-06-12 15:42:03 <Wolf01> What do you use autorail for? 15:42:21 <adf89> placing tracks? :p 15:42:24 <adf89> I use it 15:42:46 <adf89> when there is a lot of micro-constructing in a single area 15:42:53 <Wolf01> I mean, why is so different from laying a straight poliline? 15:43:02 <Wolf01> *poly 15:43:09 <adf89> e.g. when constructing station entrance etc. 15:43:25 <adf89> snapping is not always desired 15:43:29 <Wolf01> Them make polyline activate on drag > x 15:44:27 <Wolf01> And a setting to invert snapping mode with ctrl 15:44:56 <adf89> CTRL is for removing tracks 15:45:45 <Wolf01> Don't you ctrl+click on the button? -> To open polyline tool click or CTRL-click on the new button 15:46:24 <Wolf01> Normal click > snap, ctrl+click no-snap, setting to invert 15:47:50 <adf89> it was like that before 15:48:07 <adf89> but I decided that another button is usefull 15:48:37 <Wolf01> Also I know there's ctrl to remove things while building, but is inconsistent, you don't ctrl+click to remove a station, or a signal, or a bridge 15:50:18 <adf89> the two buttons (autorail and polyline) could be integrated into one, maybe, I must rethink on it... 15:50:47 <frosch123> i really like the ctrl->remove thing :) 15:50:53 <Wolf01> I use R 15:51:24 <Wolf01> At least it works with signals and stations too 15:51:56 <Wolf01> And with mices without buttons 15:52:07 <Wolf01> Like my finger 15:54:14 <adf89> ah, I remember why I added another button 15:54:26 <adf89> it was for keyboardless playing 15:56:32 <frosch123> another button is not the worst thing :) 15:56:42 <frosch123> people can assign hotkeys as they like 15:56:44 <SpComb> ah yes, play for a couple hours and then notice you're missing a ship set for FIRS, and you can't transport sand 15:56:48 <Wolf01> 6 buttons just to build the same thing... 15:56:50 <frosch123> and after all we still have the single-direction tools 15:57:05 <frosch123> Wolf01: better than the signal gui :) 15:57:55 <Wolf01> I don't even use that, I just lay pbs everywhere 15:59:01 *** DDR has joined #openttd 15:59:17 <adf89> block signals have a nice property which makes them better the PBSs in some cases 15:59:36 <Wolf01> Straight rail 15:59:47 <adf89> they turn red ONLY when there is atrain after them 16:00:03 <adf89> red block signal = bigger penalty 16:00:20 <adf89> green block signal = lighter penalty 16:00:27 <Wolf01> I don't know what are penalties :P 16:00:34 <V453000> gg 16:00:41 <V453000> hello adf :) 16:00:46 <adf89> hi 16:00:50 <frosch123> doesn't reserver track also imply a penalty? 16:01:22 <frosch123> though the amount of reserved track is different to the amount of red signals 16:01:27 <adf89> reserver, yes 16:01:40 <frosch123> don't copy my typos :p 16:01:44 <adf89> but when a train passes over that PBS, it's no longer reserved 16:01:59 <adf89> block signal is still red 16:02:15 <frosch123> i thought regular track with reservation also has a penatly 16:02:18 <frosch123> not just signals 16:02:27 <V453000> when you have a bigger network, trains have a much easier time to choose their paths with block signals 16:02:37 <V453000> because of the firstred penalty differences 16:02:51 <V453000> idk how the non-firstred influences it but I guess it can't hurt 16:05:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:05:16 <frosch123> cat arrived 16:05:56 <adf89> when path reserving, the most important is the (signal) tile where reservation ends 16:06:16 <andythenorth> nmlc info: DCxx strings: 236/256 16:06:21 <adf89> so called "firstred" mentioned by V453000 16:06:23 <andythenorth> so what happens when FIRS runs out? :P 16:07:15 <andythenorth> that’s 5 more cargos, and FIRS is ‘done’? 16:07:53 <V453000> the difference is especially massive when you actually use pre-signals in splits, cause exit has firstred of like 40 000 by default 16:07:56 <V453000> or something like that 16:08:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: we encountered various string limits recently 16:08:43 <frosch123> it's one of the next ones to tackle 16:08:59 <frosch123> but i have not seen that code refactoring gui since 16:09:06 <frosch123> *guy 16:09:21 <andythenorth> kanban board guy? 16:09:24 <andythenorth> or someone else? 16:09:50 <frosch123> nah, not that one 16:10:02 <frosch123> not the manager :) 16:10:24 <V453000> ._. 70k solar panels stopped being enough 16:10:50 <LordAro> frosch123: string limits? 16:11:12 <LordAro> V453000: get yo some nuclear ;) 16:11:28 <V453000> I could, but don't want to use those yet 16:11:37 <V453000> prototype changes stc 16:11:38 <V453000> etc 16:12:15 <frosch123> LordAro: 256 cargo strings per grf (andy's limit), 1024 other string per grf, 6100 string for all grfs total (user limit, reported by 2 different guys in last two months) 16:12:28 <Alberth> just nuke the entire planet, and you don't need any defense anymore :p 16:15:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&date=1481932800#1481986065 <- that guy 16:15:21 <frosch123> the "unit testing" guy, not the "management" guy 16:15:51 <andythenorth> I missed that :) 16:17:56 <LordAro> frosch123: i see 16:18:16 <andythenorth> wow there’s lots :P 16:18:37 <frosch123> what? people also talk when andy is not here? 16:19:18 <andythenorth> well mostly the channel is me, sometimes someone else 16:19:21 <andythenorth> talking to ourselves 16:19:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause even has stats to prove it 16:19:55 <andythenorth> is increasing the string limit just work, or are we up against hard limits? 16:20:34 * andythenorth reads the ‘development is stalled’ part 16:20:50 <frosch123> the global limit should be pure work to increase to 32bit 16:21:23 <frosch123> the cargo string part needs some more design since it involves newgrf specs 16:22:04 <andythenorth> ho, these https://wiki.openttd.org/Objectives 16:22:31 <andythenorth> I am now delaying buying a new computer, despite my battery is end-of-life in this one 16:22:33 <frosch123> i guess there are cheap solutions to increase it to 2k or something, and more tricky solutions to increase it to 60k 16:22:41 <andythenorth> because I won’t be able to compile ottd on a new mac 16:23:04 <andythenorth> frosch123 go cheap? o_O 16:23:21 <frosch123> cheap is no fun :) 16:23:25 <andythenorth> ‘no-one will ever need 60k strings’ …. < 5 years later, regret 16:24:39 <andythenorth> do we have a docker build of ottd? :P 16:24:52 * andythenorth doesn’t actually use docker, and is trolling 16:25:04 <frosch123> i think tb had a perliminary docker compile farm 16:25:13 <frosch123> rb may have had a prelininary osx compile farm 16:25:46 <andythenorth> I might have to compile in a VM 16:26:16 <frosch123> does sdl2 support osx? 16:26:33 * andythenorth looks 16:26:48 <frosch123> it says so, but ofc noone really knows :) 16:26:50 <andythenorth> apparently https://wiki.libsdl.org/Installation#Mac_OS_X 16:26:54 <frosch123> but sdl2 port is also over-due 16:26:58 <andythenorth> https://wiki.libsdl.org/FAQMacOSX 16:27:00 <frosch123> i think LordAro was working on it :) 16:28:13 <andythenorth> one of the macports guys offered help making the current OS X port work 16:28:37 * andythenorth is in catch 22: can’t test the build, don’t have a new OS X; can’t upgrade because ottd won’t work :P 16:28:59 <frosch123> the limiting factor is the compile farm afaik 16:29:27 <andythenorth> I believe current binaries work fine on [whatever version OS X now is] 16:29:31 <LordAro> wuh 16:29:33 <frosch123> we can likely make it compile on newer osx by dropping the compile farm and not offering any osx builds again :) 16:29:33 <andythenorth> it’s compiling that doesn’t afaik 16:29:34 <andythenorth> 16:29:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think the binaries also do not really work 16:29:59 <andythenorth> I should upgrade my wife’s mac and find out 16:30:07 <andythenorth> but that would mean interrupting netflix 16:30:09 <andythenorth> so eh 16:30:15 <frosch123> 80% of osx fs reports are about crashes in icu, which look like incompatible shared libs 16:30:42 <andythenorth> do they give the OS X version? 16:30:50 <frosch123> but i can't even check whether we link icu statically or not 16:31:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: usually they do 16:31:03 <andythenorth> I am on 10.10.5 / Yosemite, I think I’m two versions behind release 16:31:27 <andythenorth> ~everything works fine, except that palette animation has to be disabled 16:31:27 <Rubidium> frosch123: we link it statically, but that's doubtful for "own" builds 16:31:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: fs 6524 is 10.12.1 16:31:55 * andythenorth looks 16:34:15 <frosch123> hmm, i wonder where i got the icu idea from 16:34:28 <frosch123> i thought crash.log contained some backtrace 16:35:31 <michi_cc> It does, unless the stack went away. 16:36:02 <frosch123> yeah, but it is missing in both osx reports i just looked at :) 16:36:47 <michi_cc> Maybe both reports involve stack corruption :) 16:36:52 <Rubidium> by the looks of it, it is an official build (rev.cpp was built at the right time) 16:38:27 <frosch123> i wonder how long win10 will support .exe :) 16:39:32 <andythenorth> hmm, ottd does build on OS X 10.9 and 10.10, I have used both 16:39:36 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6295 16:46:59 <michi_cc> I think that the compile farm uses --enable-universal (which TrueBrain might be able to comfirm), which means that FS#6295 should be safe to apply. 16:48:37 <LordAro> michi_cc: http://farm.openttd.org/browse/OTTD-RLS-OSX-71/metadata :) 16:48:53 <LordAro> (yes) 16:50:21 <michi_cc> So the FS path won't affect the compile farm. I might affect users self-compiling on 10.5 or something, but I'm note sure there are any left :) 16:50:31 *** murr4y has quit IRC 16:51:04 *** murr4y has joined #openttd 16:51:41 <andythenorth> vanishingly low :P 16:51:58 <andythenorth> if you’re on the apple train, you don’t get backwards compatibility past ~5 years 16:52:19 <andythenorth> yeah I can boot the imac in my loft and run 10.2 perfectly fine, but...why? 16:55:45 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: when splitting openttd.grf into two files, one which is loaded always, and one specific to the original gfx baseset. how to name those two files? 16:56:25 <Eddi|zuHause> _basic and _extra? 16:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> or _base 16:56:53 <frosch123> there are orig_dos.obg and orig_win.obg 16:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> _base and _orig? 16:57:29 <frosch123> maybe openttd.grf is the "always" one, and the new one could be orig.grf or trge.grf 16:57:47 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:57:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd.grf and orig_extra.grf? 16:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> not fond of the trg* naming 16:58:22 <frosch123> orig_extra sounds fine 16:58:49 <frosch123> ok, next one: what grfid to use for openttd.grf 16:59:29 <frosch123> orig_extra would keep the FF "OTT" 16:59:39 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action8#GRFID 16:59:55 <frosch123> it does not exactly need the "OT" part 17:00:08 <frosch123> i could just go for FF FF FF FE 17:00:14 <michi_cc> Eh, so what. 17:00:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r27727 trunk/config.lib (2017-01-08 18:00:18 +0100 ) 17:00:26 <DorpsGek> -Fix(-or-not) [FS#6295]: [OSX] Out-of-the-box compilation on newer OSX versions (dunn). 17:00:50 <michi_cc> AFK for a few hours, so if it burns or hords of angry users descent on this channel, somebody hit revert :) 17:01:24 <frosch123> be careful 17:01:30 <frosch123> all the bot attacks have been on sundays 17:34:09 *** Alberth has left #openttd 18:01:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Rubidium 18:08:23 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 18:09:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Rubidium 18:10:20 *** Arveen is now known as Guest0 18:10:24 *** umgeher has quit IRC 18:10:30 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 18:10:30 *** MonkeyDrone has quit IRC 18:10:37 *** dihedral has quit IRC 18:10:40 *** Ttech has quit IRC 18:13:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 18:13:35 *** Ttech has joined #openttd 18:19:28 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:29:33 *** MonkeyDrone has joined #openttd 18:29:56 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 18:30:36 *** Mitooo__ has joined #openttd 18:31:36 *** dihedral has joined #openttd 18:32:02 *** umgeher has joined #openttd 18:33:57 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 18:34:05 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 18:34:31 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 18:34:51 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd 18:35:48 *** Progman has quit IRC 18:36:04 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:36:32 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 18:40:25 *** Webster has joined #openttd 18:41:03 *** V453000 has quit IRC 18:41:14 *** Snail has joined #openttd 18:41:24 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 18:45:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27728 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2017-01-08 19:45:37 +0100 ) 18:45:45 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 18:45:46 <DorpsGek> latin: 1 change by Supercheese 18:48:08 *** Lejving has quit IRC 18:48:20 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 19:10:04 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd 19:10:17 *** mescalito has quit IRC 19:11:54 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 19:16:18 *** Guest0 has quit IRC 19:37:06 *** PG has joined #openttd 19:37:27 *** PG is now known as PG2 19:42:40 *** PG2 has quit IRC 20:01:06 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:09:46 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 20:12:14 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 20:18:13 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:20:47 *** Arveen3 has joined #openttd 20:23:03 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 20:25:44 *** keoz has quit IRC 20:26:48 *** Arveen2 has quit IRC 20:28:48 *** Arveen3 has quit IRC 20:55:35 *** Taede has quit IRC 20:56:08 *** Taede has joined #openttd 20:59:46 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 21:14:09 *** maciozo_ has joined #openttd 21:20:53 *** maciozo has quit IRC 21:20:55 *** maciozo_ is now known as maciozo 21:25:20 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 21:25:50 *** adf89 has quit IRC 21:38:26 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 21:43:50 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:59:35 *** Snail has quit IRC 21:59:52 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:00:30 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:01:08 *** Snail has quit IRC 22:01:34 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 22:01:37 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:02:26 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:02:44 *** Snail has quit IRC 22:03:14 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:04:02 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:04:50 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:05:37 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:06:26 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:06:44 *** Snail has quit IRC 22:07:15 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:08:03 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:08:51 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:09:36 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:10:27 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:10:45 *** Snail has quit IRC 22:11:15 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:11:57 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:22:17 <Lejving> funded industries dies as well if not used right? 22:26:54 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 22:30:33 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 22:35:34 *** Arveen has quit IRC 22:37:44 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:38:14 *** berndj has quit IRC 22:39:05 *** berndj has joined #openttd 22:49:58 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 22:49:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 22:50:15 *** Lejving_ has joined #openttd 22:56:35 *** tokai has quit IRC 22:57:23 *** Lejving has quit IRC 22:57:28 *** Lejving_ is now known as Lejving 22:58:21 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 23:01:38 *** Snail has joined #openttd 23:19:35 *** Mitooo__ has quit IRC 23:24:25 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 23:30:46 *** JezK has joined #openttd 23:39:35 *** gpsoft has quit IRC 23:59:29 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 23:59:58 <Wolf01> 'night