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00:03:14 *** JezK has joined #openttd 00:07:34 <Wolf01> 'nihgt 00:07:39 <Wolf01> or night 00:07:42 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 00:56:48 *** Snail has joined #openttd 02:03:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 02:04:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 02:10:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 03:03:38 *** glx has quit IRC 03:27:11 *** Biolunar_ has joined #openttd 03:34:10 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 03:48:57 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 03:53:25 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 04:19:05 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 06:03:27 *** Snail has quit IRC 06:56:30 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 07:17:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:25:14 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:46:18 *** supermop has quit IRC 07:54:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:58:39 *** supermop has joined #openttd 08:04:06 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:07:04 *** Sova has joined #openttd 08:12:10 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 08:18:37 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 08:20:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 08:46:31 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 09:01:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:09:44 *** JezK has quit IRC 09:12:40 <__ln__> https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEgoogle/SEgoogle2001/SE2017Aug21Tgoogle.html 09:14:18 <crem> Only visible from one country. Boring. 09:16:04 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:16:13 <__ln__> obviously if they spend billions of dollars to arrange a solar eclipse, they won't share it with others 09:18:19 <peter1138> SAD! 09:39:55 *** Supercheese has left #openttd 09:40:48 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd 09:58:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:59:06 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 10:17:21 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:17:31 <Wolf01> o/ 10:17:36 <crem> \o 10:21:05 *** Maarten has quit IRC 10:23:09 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 11:18:34 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 11:30:48 *** skapazzo has joined #openttd 11:35:26 *** Sova has quit IRC 12:03:19 *** Sova has joined #openttd 12:40:42 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:42:01 * Wolf01 will be back tomorrow o/ 12:42:04 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 13:49:43 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:50:42 *** Snail has joined #openttd 13:57:55 *** Sova has quit IRC 14:05:25 *** Snail has quit IRC 14:37:23 <supermop__> yo 14:44:34 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:44:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:44:49 <Alberth> o/ 14:46:09 <crem> \o 14:46:21 <Arveen> o/\o 14:46:49 <Arveen> high five 14:47:07 <Alberth> :) 15:14:51 <supermop__> why do people ask me of all people to code stuff? 15:15:06 <supermop__> i don't even know how to use excel 15:18:04 <V453000> humenz 15:18:06 <V453000> dum 15:18:08 <V453000> eradicate 15:18:09 <V453000> asap 15:20:28 <V453000> iWin 15:20:33 <V453000> . 15:23:55 <supermop__> maybe i am misinterpreting tone 15:25:24 <supermop__> but "The only reason I ever wanted road types to begin with is so..." sounds to me like someone angry that a feature exists but no author has made a grf with that feature yet? 15:33:21 <supermop__> i feel actively discouraged from making a speed limit test fork of ARRS now 15:37:20 <Alberth> nah, he just wants speed limits rather than road types. Road types however can also provide speed limits 15:38:15 <supermop__> yeah, so i don't see what the point of complaint is 15:40:05 <Alberth> He is only complaining about lack of such limits, although imho using road types purely for speed limits is overkill, imho 15:41:23 <Alberth> basically the usual confusion between RL and a game :) 15:41:37 <Alberth> or that scales mean anything in openttd :p 15:42:55 <Alberth> it has nothing to do with your work at all 15:45:17 <Alberth> if you make a version with speed limits, he is likely to be estatic, as you provided the thing he is dearly missing 15:46:46 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 15:48:20 <supermop__> i kinda wanted to make tramway with catenary that is $$$ and fast vs tramway with trolley wire that is cheap and slow 15:48:47 <supermop__> but it's not a huge priority for me 15:49:11 <supermop__> sort of a 'trolley line' and 'modern Light rail' 15:49:54 <supermop__> and 'cable hauled streetcar' but that sounds like it would be a pain 15:50:48 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 15:51:29 *** roidal has joined #openttd 15:51:31 <Alberth> "experimental" :) 15:54:03 <Alberth> hmm, a pipe grf to do fast and large quantities transport... that could be interesting 15:55:19 <Alberth> ships could work too 15:57:20 <supermop__> i've considered coding chairlifts/gondolas as a road or tram type 15:57:54 <supermop__> really needs type limited bridges 15:58:10 <supermop__> or at least type specific bridge graphics 15:58:23 <supermop__> and i feel like i would have noticed if that was possible 16:01:32 <Alberth> yep, I also think you cannot enforce that currently 16:01:48 <Alberth> bridges are very limited anyway, with just 11 in total 16:03:03 <Alberth> although I just need 1 generic bridge :p 16:04:14 <supermop__> did you play TTO 16:05:17 <supermop__> damn i miss that monorail bridge 16:06:37 <supermop__> of course i could slog through NFO to make a bridgetype that is only a a pair of overhead cables, but that might be a bit nervewracking for car drivers 16:08:28 <Alberth> I didn't 16:08:59 <Alberth> nah, openttd car drivers are very good at driving :) 16:09:19 <Alberth> they can even drive over invisible bridges :) 16:10:28 <Alberth> but basically, it's a matter of the player respecting intended use of the object 16:11:05 <Alberth> he/she can always make a huge mess 16:11:15 <Alberth> AIs are particularly good at it :p 16:11:59 <supermop__> coffee time 16:12:01 <Alberth> you can't control that or stop that, so better simply ignore it 16:12:26 <Alberth> I had quite enough coffee today, but dinner would be useful 16:21:31 <supermop__> i also got a donut 16:22:01 <supermop__> which has a fragment of stroopwaffle on top for some reason 16:25:54 *** Defaultti has quit IRC 16:27:19 *** Defaultti has joined #openttd 16:28:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:32:14 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:13:01 <supermop__> ok i better code a trolleytruck before the weekend 17:43:45 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:54:10 *** Biolunar_ has quit IRC 17:59:33 *** tokai has joined #openttd 17:59:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 18:12:40 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 18:14:10 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:17:36 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:17:59 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:18:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:22:59 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:23:33 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 18:23:41 <supermop_> for a steel wheeled tram and a rubber tyred trolley bus, of equal weight and hp, which should have the higher TE 18:24:10 <supermop_> rubber seems grippier and better for slopes but... 18:24:46 <supermop_> i guess friction and deformation losses from the tires is a separate issue from TE 18:25:28 <Alberth> wouldn't that start counting at higher speeds? 18:26:15 <supermop_> not sure 18:26:38 <Alberth> throw a die :) 18:27:01 <supermop_> i mean a city doesn't choose tram or bus based on TE and friction, but it is a consideration for say, rubber tyred metro 18:27:12 <supermop_> and monorail, people movers etc 18:27:28 <Alberth> in RL, definitely 18:27:37 <Alberth> in a game, much less 18:27:39 <glx> less energy required to move the same weight on rail than on road 18:27:40 <supermop_> clearly there are some cases where someone has chosen rubber for a reason other than cheapness 18:27:58 <Alberth> freedom of movement :p 18:28:05 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 18:28:21 <supermop_> because in some of those cases the rubber is more $$ overall than the steel, and there is still the cost of guiderails 18:28:24 <glx> I think they use tyred metro when there are too steep slopes 18:28:43 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:28:43 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 18:29:05 <supermop_> glx: thats what i was thinking, i know chongqing uses monorail for some metro lines for that reason 18:29:27 <supermop_> so for a trolley truck that means it should have more TE than a tram? 18:29:57 <supermop_> trolley bus can have more HP than diesel bus 18:30:45 <supermop_> so if player is paying for wires for bus, there should be some reason to choose trolley bus instead of tram 18:31:17 <glx> tyred metro also increases capacity of the line due to better acceleration and deceleration 18:31:44 <supermop_> because i think the subtle difference in cost between rail+wires and wires only is too academic to have any meaningful impact in game 18:32:28 <supermop_> not sure how rolling resistance is meaningful in game either, other than abusing air drag 18:33:25 <supermop_> so: bus = cheapest, trolleybus=best acceleration, tram= most efficient? 18:40:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:40:33 <andythenorth> o/ 18:43:58 <Alberth> o/ 18:45:59 <Alberth> supermop_: just pick what you want for the vehicles, and fix stats to match, nobody claims they must have same HP or whatever 18:47:36 <Alberth> ie let game-play lead 18:49:41 <supermop_> Alberth: i guess my question is, rather than as a cute toy, what is the gameplay point of a trolleybus 18:51:40 <Alberth> diversity in trams 18:52:46 <andythenorth> ach 18:52:54 <andythenorth> should we just make ‘nml as a service’ 18:52:56 <andythenorth> web app 18:53:07 <andythenorth> if we could do it stateless…it would be probably quite trivial 18:53:12 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:53:15 <andythenorth> no user accounts, no projects, no state 18:53:27 <Alberth> I love open wagons, as they make such nice variations on the tracks 18:53:33 <andythenorth> session based, if you want to store it, export json 18:53:41 <andythenorth> to restore your session, upload the json 18:53:44 <Alberth> technically, just one box wagon would work too 18:55:35 *** matt11235 has quit IRC 18:56:02 <andythenorth> hmm, why even json? 18:56:11 <andythenorth> just make an nml serialiser / deserialiser :P 18:56:20 <andythenorth> use the native format as the import / export format :P 18:57:49 *** techmagus has quit IRC 18:59:16 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:59:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: sounds a bit cumbersome to upload 1GiB of sprites everyday 18:59:57 <Alberth> not to mention publishing the grf as GPL 19:00:11 *** blathijs has quit IRC 19:00:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: also, there is a native nml binary for windows 19:00:57 <frosch123> if people are too stupid to use that one, they are also too stupid to use nml in general, and they are also probably too stupid to use a web interface 19:03:07 *** techmagus has joined #openttd 19:06:27 <Alberth> or too scared, as it involves "programming" 19:06:37 <andythenorth> ha 19:06:49 <andythenorth> it was the ‘coding’ comments that made me think of it 19:06:57 <andythenorth> coding NRT without callbacks is barely coding 19:07:12 <andythenorth> or at least, it’s simple declarative markup, like BBCode 19:07:15 <andythenorth> or HTML 19:07:21 <andythenorth> it could be done in a web UI :P 19:07:28 <andythenorth> ‘upload a sprite' 19:07:31 <andythenorth> actually 19:07:40 * andythenorth realised all the error cases and support burden :P 19:07:41 <andythenorth> burn that idea 19:08:50 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 19:08:57 <Alberth> it's basically GRFmaker, I guess 19:09:37 <Alberth> for some reason people are fine typing numbers in a GUI, but not in a plain text file :) 19:10:20 <andythenorth> I wonder if the abandonment rate on grfs tracks the abandonment rate on SaaS web apps like goal trackers, to-do lists etc 19:11:24 <Alberth> that sentence is not understandable for me 19:24:37 <andythenorth> lots of people sign up to free web apps 19:24:39 <andythenorth> with good intentions 19:24:54 <andythenorth> and some project in mind 19:25:00 <andythenorth> but the number who give up is high :) 19:25:21 <Alberth> ah 19:27:20 <Alberth> trying to realize a dream it makes them realize dreaming about a result is much simpler 19:28:10 <Alberth> dreaming about realizing beats realizing the dream :p 19:32:49 <Alberth> btw, new FIRS is much better 19:33:11 <Alberth> you get off the ground much easier 19:34:22 <andythenorth> good :) 19:34:29 <supermop_> brb 19:35:30 <Alberth> I am somewhat undecided about lack of proper distance between producing and consuming industries 19:35:56 <Alberth> on the one hand it's annoying to have a connection that is so short 19:36:18 <Alberth> on the other hand, it does bring variation in delivery 19:38:13 <ST2> hi :) 19:38:13 <ST2> FIRS 2, Road Hog, Iron Horse and FISH 2.... what can go wrong?! xD 19:38:29 <ST2> I owe a big thanks to someone ^^ 19:38:29 <ST2> "Father's Day" event: https://openttd.btpro.nl/forum/28-tournaments/2887-father-s-day-tournament-2017 19:38:29 <ST2> All invited :) 19:39:39 <Alberth> don't think there are many players here 19:40:17 <ST2> invitation includes to spectate :) 19:41:01 <Alberth> does that happen? sounds quite boring 19:41:31 <ST2> yeah 19:41:48 <ST2> I'll spectate... would be unfair to play it knowing the scenario to use xD 19:42:19 <Alberth> well, except for game masters then? :p 19:42:46 <ST2> yeah - known fact :P 19:55:48 *** Lamp- has quit IRC 19:58:37 <andythenorth> Alberth: needs to be at least 16px distance 19:58:39 <andythenorth> ‘to do’ 19:58:39 <andythenorth> :P 19:59:26 <andythenorth> ST2: no AV9? o_O 19:59:38 <ST2> nop 19:59:51 <ST2> and now can't included it - it's a custom scenario :( 20:00:36 <ST2> and we're a bit affraid of flying so, plane limits are kinda low xD 20:00:37 *** Lamp- has joined #openttd 20:02:17 <andythenorth> http://www.railpictures.net/photo/607841/ 20:02:50 <andythenorth> rainbows eh 20:03:34 <ST2> nice replacement for trains smoke ^^ 20:04:12 <andythenorth> also same location http://www.railpictures.net/photo/607840/ 20:29:24 <andythenorth> such cloudbleed 20:31:25 <V453000> https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-179 20:31:29 <V453000> :> 20:33:12 <ST2> I know V was busy with the small gust of wind (fff) 20:33:51 <andythenorth> winning V453000 20:34:39 * andythenorth wondered about ottd station tiles that replicate the ground tile of an adjacent tile 20:34:50 <andythenorth> determined by which edge you click near when building 20:44:45 <Alberth> Nice, V :) 20:45:22 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:54:08 <Alberth> you ever use several different ground tiles for one station? Also, what tile would you select? 20:54:11 <Alberth> nn 20:54:14 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:54:47 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:06:23 <V453000> :) 21:29:19 <frosch123> i wonder why video games make uranium always green 21:29:31 <frosch123> i think its just biter shit in disguise 21:30:15 <V453000> ._. Slugz 21:31:03 <frosch123> most metals look the same :p 21:31:54 <V453000> I don't think we can keep being friends frosch 21:31:59 <V453000> Not after these words 21:32:04 <andythenorth> supermop: I found some trails sprites 21:32:05 <andythenorth> they’re bad 21:32:07 <andythenorth> but eh 21:32:41 <frosch123> V453000: what is wrong with burning biter products? 21:32:45 <frosch123> too ecological? 21:33:03 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 21:33:18 <V453000> Yes 21:33:47 <andythenorth> do I need multiple repos for BROS? 21:33:48 <andythenorth> probably not 21:35:23 <frosch123> V453000: did you also adjust the minimal colors? 21:35:50 <frosch123> for me its always hard to distinguish stone and iore on first look, unless they are next to each other 21:35:52 <V453000> The fuck is minimal colors? 21:35:55 <V453000> Ah 21:35:59 <frosch123> minimap 21:36:05 <V453000> O 21:36:08 <V453000> Not yet 21:36:29 <V453000> Whole map has never been touched by a person who has any colour sense 21:36:51 <V453000> Maybe will make it into 0.15 21:38:09 <andythenorth> BRIX-style factorio? o_O :P 21:39:34 <V453000> Xd 21:39:48 <frosch123> ah, the green originates from uranium-glas 21:44:15 <andythenorth> ha 21:44:30 <andythenorth> more-mathematically-accurate-still-too-short boats 21:44:37 <andythenorth> look wrong in game :P 21:44:53 <andythenorth> bizarre 21:45:17 <andythenorth> maybe I’m just too used to chibi diagonal views 21:46:10 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 21:50:40 <andythenorth> ‘field tiles' 21:50:46 * andythenorth cleaning up old stuff 21:59:25 *** roidal has quit IRC 22:02:42 *** it_ has joined #openttd 22:03:41 <it_> Hello. I was wondering where I can find clear defintions on scenario files. I wanted to create a new scenario given height data, city locations and river/lake locations. I suppose I can't just create a map if I want to add river & lakes; what if I want to add cities too? 22:05:12 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=27052 <- there is an ancient topic about that 22:05:32 <frosch123> i think there are also topics about founding towns in specific places, but it is even more fiddly 22:09:14 <it_> Hm well I saw that topic. But the post is about creating heightmaps and loading them into the scenario editor. I managed to do that already, what I want to achieve now is add rivers & lakes (and later cities) 22:09:26 <it_> which afaik you can't add to the heightmap somehow? :/ 22:10:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 22:23:44 *** it_ has quit IRC 22:24:48 *** supermop has quit IRC 22:25:15 *** cHawk has quit IRC 22:28:26 <andythenorth> bed 22:28:26 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:35:22 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 22:36:51 *** supermop has joined #openttd 22:42:00 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:50:10 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:56:01 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 22:56:42 <ST2> http://imgw.rgcdn.nl/95392f185cd44accb9c5893dfe7ef4a5/opener/Brouwerij-Heineken.jpg <<-- Factorio "beer" belts?! xD 23:16:11 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:23:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:28:23 *** supermop has quit IRC 23:28:23 *** skapazzo has quit IRC 23:29:19 *** skapazzo has joined #openttd 23:29:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:37:15 *** supermop has joined #openttd 23:45:00 <supermop_> ok this templating isn't working 23:46:42 <supermop_> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/px8kb8res#line-21 23:50:29 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 23:52:21 <supermop__> ugh 23:54:07 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:55:43 *** supermop_ has quit IRC