Log for #openttd on 24th February 2017:
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00:07:34  <Wolf01> 'nihgt
00:07:39  <Wolf01> or night
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09:12:40  <__ln__>
09:14:18  <crem> Only visible from one country. Boring.
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09:16:13  <__ln__> obviously if they spend billions of dollars to arrange a solar eclipse, they won't share it with others
09:18:19  <peter1138> SAD!
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10:17:31  <Wolf01> o/
10:17:36  <crem> \o
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12:42:01  * Wolf01 will be back tomorrow o/
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14:37:23  <supermop__> yo
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14:44:34  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
14:44:49  <Alberth> o/
14:46:09  <crem> \o
14:46:21  <Arveen> o/\o
14:46:49  <Arveen> high five
14:47:07  <Alberth> :)
15:14:51  <supermop__> why do people ask me of all people to code stuff?
15:15:06  <supermop__> i don't even know how to use excel
15:18:04  <V453000> humenz
15:18:06  <V453000> dum
15:18:08  <V453000> eradicate
15:18:09  <V453000> asap
15:20:28  <V453000> iWin
15:20:33  <V453000> .
15:23:55  <supermop__> maybe i am misinterpreting tone
15:25:24  <supermop__> but "The only reason I ever wanted road types to begin with is so..." sounds to me like someone angry that a feature exists but no author has made a grf with that feature yet?
15:33:21  <supermop__> i feel actively discouraged from making a speed limit test fork of ARRS now
15:37:20  <Alberth> nah, he just wants speed limits rather than road types. Road types however can also provide speed limits
15:38:15  <supermop__> yeah, so i don't see what the point of complaint is
15:40:05  <Alberth> He is only complaining about lack of such limits, although imho using road types purely for speed limits is overkill, imho
15:41:23  <Alberth> basically the usual confusion between RL and a game :)
15:41:37  <Alberth> or that scales mean anything in openttd :p
15:42:55  <Alberth> it has nothing to do with your work at all
15:45:17  <Alberth> if you make a version with speed limits, he is likely to be estatic, as you provided the thing he is dearly missing
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15:48:20  <supermop__> i kinda wanted to make tramway with catenary that is $$$ and fast vs tramway with trolley wire that is cheap and slow
15:48:47  <supermop__> but it's not a huge priority for me
15:49:11  <supermop__> sort of a 'trolley line' and 'modern Light rail'
15:49:54  <supermop__> and 'cable hauled streetcar' but that sounds like it would be a pain
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15:51:31  <Alberth> "experimental" :)
15:54:03  <Alberth> hmm, a pipe grf to do fast and large quantities transport...   that could be interesting
15:55:19  <Alberth> ships could work too
15:57:20  <supermop__> i've considered coding chairlifts/gondolas as a road or tram type
15:57:54  <supermop__> really needs type limited bridges
15:58:10  <supermop__> or at least type specific bridge graphics
15:58:23  <supermop__> and i feel like i would have noticed if that was possible
16:01:32  <Alberth> yep, I also think you cannot enforce that currently
16:01:48  <Alberth> bridges are very limited anyway, with just 11 in total
16:03:03  <Alberth> although I just need 1  generic bridge :p
16:04:14  <supermop__> did you play TTO
16:05:17  <supermop__> damn i miss that monorail bridge
16:06:37  <supermop__> of course i could slog through NFO to make a bridgetype that is only a a pair of overhead cables, but that might be a bit nervewracking for car drivers
16:08:28  <Alberth> I didn't
16:08:59  <Alberth> nah, openttd car drivers are very good at driving :)
16:09:19  <Alberth> they can even drive over invisible bridges :)
16:10:28  <Alberth> but basically, it's a matter of the player respecting intended use of the object
16:11:05  <Alberth> he/she can always make a huge mess
16:11:15  <Alberth> AIs are particularly good at it :p
16:11:59  <supermop__> coffee time
16:12:01  <Alberth> you can't control that or stop that, so better simply ignore it
16:12:26  <Alberth> I had quite enough coffee today, but dinner would be useful
16:21:31  <supermop__> i also got a donut
16:22:01  <supermop__> which has a fragment of stroopwaffle on top for some reason
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17:13:01  <supermop__> ok i better code a trolleytruck before the weekend
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18:23:41  <supermop_> for a steel wheeled tram and a rubber tyred trolley bus, of equal weight and hp, which should have the higher TE
18:24:10  <supermop_> rubber seems grippier and better for slopes but...
18:24:46  <supermop_> i guess friction and deformation losses from the tires is a separate issue from TE
18:25:28  <Alberth> wouldn't that start counting at higher speeds?
18:26:15  <supermop_> not sure
18:26:38  <Alberth> throw a die :)
18:27:01  <supermop_> i mean a city doesn't choose tram or bus based on TE and friction, but it is a consideration for say, rubber tyred metro
18:27:12  <supermop_> and monorail, people movers etc
18:27:28  <Alberth> in RL, definitely
18:27:37  <Alberth> in a game, much less
18:27:39  <glx> less energy required to move the same weight on rail than on road
18:27:40  <supermop_> clearly there are some cases where someone has chosen rubber for a reason other than cheapness
18:27:58  <Alberth> freedom of movement :p
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18:28:21  <supermop_> because in some of those cases the rubber is more $$ overall than the steel, and there is still the cost of guiderails
18:28:24  <glx> I think they use tyred metro when there are too steep slopes
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18:29:05  <supermop_> glx: thats what i was thinking, i know chongqing uses monorail for some metro lines for that reason
18:29:27  <supermop_> so for a trolley truck that means it should have more TE than a tram?
18:29:57  <supermop_> trolley bus can have more HP than diesel bus
18:30:45  <supermop_> so if player is paying for wires for bus, there should be some reason to choose trolley bus instead of tram
18:31:17  <glx> tyred metro also increases capacity of the line due to better acceleration and deceleration
18:31:44  <supermop_> because i think the subtle difference in cost between rail+wires and wires only is too academic to have any meaningful impact in game
18:32:28  <supermop_> not sure how rolling resistance is meaningful in game either, other than abusing air drag
18:33:25  <supermop_> so: bus = cheapest, trolleybus=best acceleration, tram= most efficient?
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18:40:33  <andythenorth> o/
18:43:58  <Alberth> o/
18:45:59  <Alberth> supermop_: just pick what you want for the vehicles, and fix stats to match, nobody claims they must have same HP or whatever
18:47:36  <Alberth> ie let game-play lead
18:49:41  <supermop_> Alberth: i guess my question is, rather than as a cute toy, what is the gameplay point of a trolleybus
18:51:40  <Alberth> diversity in trams
18:52:46  <andythenorth> ach
18:52:54  <andythenorth> should we just make ‘nml as a service’
18:52:56  <andythenorth> web app
18:53:07  <andythenorth> if we could do it stateless…it would be probably quite trivial
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18:53:15  <andythenorth> no user accounts, no projects, no state
18:53:27  <Alberth> I love open wagons, as they make such nice variations on the tracks
18:53:33  <andythenorth> session based, if you want to store it, export json
18:53:41  <andythenorth> to restore your session, upload the json
18:53:44  <Alberth> technically, just one box wagon would work too
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18:56:02  <andythenorth> hmm, why even json?
18:56:11  <andythenorth> just make an nml serialiser / deserialiser :P
18:56:20  <andythenorth> use the native format as the import / export format :P
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18:59:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: sounds a bit cumbersome to upload 1GiB of sprites everyday
18:59:57  <Alberth> not to mention publishing the grf as GPL
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19:00:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: also, there is a native nml binary for windows
19:00:57  <frosch123> if people are too stupid to use that one, they are also too stupid to use nml in general, and they are also probably too stupid to use a web interface
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19:06:27  <Alberth> or too scared, as it involves "programming"
19:06:37  <andythenorth> ha
19:06:49  <andythenorth> it was the ‘coding’ comments that made me think of it
19:06:57  <andythenorth> coding NRT without callbacks is barely coding
19:07:12  <andythenorth> or at least, it’s simple declarative markup, like BBCode
19:07:15  <andythenorth> or HTML
19:07:21  <andythenorth> it could be done in a web UI :P
19:07:28  <andythenorth> ‘upload a sprite'
19:07:31  <andythenorth> actually
19:07:40  * andythenorth realised all the error cases and support burden :P
19:07:41  <andythenorth> burn that idea
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19:08:57  <Alberth> it's basically GRFmaker, I guess
19:09:37  <Alberth> for some reason people are fine typing numbers in a GUI, but not in a plain text file :)
19:10:20  <andythenorth> I wonder if the abandonment rate on grfs tracks the abandonment rate on SaaS web apps like goal trackers, to-do lists etc
19:11:24  <Alberth> that sentence is not understandable for me
19:24:37  <andythenorth> lots of people sign up to free web apps
19:24:39  <andythenorth> with good intentions
19:24:54  <andythenorth> and some project in mind
19:25:00  <andythenorth> but the number who give up is high :)
19:25:21  <Alberth> ah
19:27:20  <Alberth> trying to realize a dream it makes them realize dreaming about a result is much simpler
19:28:10  <Alberth> dreaming about realizing beats realizing the dream :p
19:32:49  <Alberth> btw, new FIRS is much better
19:33:11  <Alberth> you get off the ground much easier
19:34:22  <andythenorth> good :)
19:34:29  <supermop_> brb
19:35:30  <Alberth> I am somewhat undecided about lack of proper distance between producing and consuming industries
19:35:56  <Alberth> on the one hand it's annoying to have a connection that is so short
19:36:18  <Alberth> on the other hand, it does bring variation in delivery
19:38:13  <ST2> hi :)
19:38:13  <ST2> FIRS 2, Road Hog, Iron Horse and FISH 2.... what can go wrong?! xD
19:38:29  <ST2> I owe a big thanks to someone ^^
19:38:29  <ST2> "Father's Day" event:
19:38:29  <ST2> All invited :)
19:39:39  <Alberth> don't think there are many players here
19:40:17  <ST2> invitation includes to spectate :)
19:41:01  <Alberth> does that happen? sounds quite boring
19:41:31  <ST2> yeah
19:41:48  <ST2> I'll spectate... would be unfair to play it knowing the scenario to use xD
19:42:19  <Alberth> well, except for game masters then? :p
19:42:46  <ST2> yeah - known fact :P
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19:58:37  <andythenorth> Alberth: needs to be at least 16px distance
19:58:39  <andythenorth> ‘to do’
19:58:39  <andythenorth> :P
19:59:26  <andythenorth> ST2: no AV9? o_O
19:59:38  <ST2> nop
19:59:51  <ST2> and now can't included it - it's a custom scenario :(
20:00:36  <ST2> and we're a bit affraid of flying so, plane limits are kinda low xD
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20:02:17  <andythenorth>
20:02:50  <andythenorth> rainbows eh
20:03:34  <ST2> nice replacement for trains smoke ^^
20:04:12  <andythenorth> also same location
20:29:24  <andythenorth> such cloudbleed
20:31:25  <V453000>
20:31:29  <V453000> :>
20:33:12  <ST2> I know V was busy with the small gust of wind (fff)
20:33:51  <andythenorth> winning V453000
20:34:39  * andythenorth wondered about ottd station tiles that replicate the ground tile of an adjacent tile
20:34:50  <andythenorth> determined by which edge you click near when building
20:44:45  <Alberth> Nice, V :)
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20:54:08  <Alberth> you ever use several different ground tiles for one station?  Also, what tile would you select?
20:54:11  <Alberth> nn
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21:06:23  <V453000> :)
21:29:19  <frosch123> i wonder why video games make uranium always green
21:29:31  <frosch123> i think its just biter shit in disguise
21:30:15  <V453000> ._. Slugz
21:31:03  <frosch123> most metals look the same :p
21:31:54  <V453000> I don't think we can keep being friends frosch
21:31:59  <V453000> Not after these words
21:32:04  <andythenorth> supermop: I found some trails sprites
21:32:05  <andythenorth> they’re bad
21:32:07  <andythenorth> but eh
21:32:41  <frosch123> V453000: what is wrong with burning biter products?
21:32:45  <frosch123> too ecological?
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21:33:18  <V453000> Yes
21:33:47  <andythenorth> do I need multiple repos for BROS?
21:33:48  <andythenorth> probably not
21:35:23  <frosch123> V453000: did you also adjust the minimal colors?
21:35:50  <frosch123> for me its always hard to distinguish stone and iore on first look, unless they are next to each other
21:35:52  <V453000> The fuck is minimal colors?
21:35:55  <V453000> Ah
21:35:59  <frosch123> minimap
21:36:05  <V453000> O
21:36:08  <V453000> Not yet
21:36:29  <V453000> Whole map has never been touched by a person who has any colour sense
21:36:51  <V453000> Maybe will make it into 0.15
21:38:09  <andythenorth> BRIX-style factorio? o_O :P
21:39:34  <V453000> Xd
21:39:48  <frosch123> ah, the green originates from uranium-glas
21:44:15  <andythenorth> ha
21:44:30  <andythenorth> more-mathematically-accurate-still-too-short boats
21:44:37  <andythenorth> look wrong in game :P
21:44:53  <andythenorth> bizarre
21:45:17  <andythenorth> maybe I’m just too used to chibi diagonal views
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21:50:40  <andythenorth> ‘field tiles'
21:50:46  * andythenorth cleaning up old stuff
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22:03:41  <it_> Hello. I was wondering where I can find clear defintions on scenario files. I wanted to create a new scenario given height data, city locations and river/lake locations. I suppose I can't just create a map if I want to add river & lakes; what if I want to add cities too?
22:05:12  <frosch123> <- there is an ancient topic about that
22:05:32  <frosch123> i think there are also topics about founding towns in specific places, but it is even more fiddly
22:09:14  <it_> Hm well I saw that topic. But the post is about creating heightmaps and loading them into the scenario editor. I managed to do that already, what I want to achieve now is add rivers & lakes (and later cities)
22:09:26  <it_> which afaik you can't add to the heightmap somehow? :/
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22:28:26  <andythenorth> bed
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22:56:42  <ST2>  <<-- Factorio "beer" belts?! xD
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23:45:00  <supermop_> ok this templating isn't working
23:46:42  <supermop_>
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23:52:21  <supermop__> ugh
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