Log for #openttd on 5th June 2017:
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02:01:09  <Vadtec> its not possible to replace say monorail trains with maglev trains via the replace vehicles interface?
02:10:46  <debdog> you'll need some sort of unversal rail thingy for that
02:11:47  <Vadtec> thats sad
02:11:49  <debdog> like newgrf UniversalRail Type 2.0.1
02:12:05  <Vadtec> it would be nice if you could upgrade across rail types, then just have to convert your rails over
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02:13:14  <debdog> yes, hence the said newgrf
02:14:16  <Vadtec> cept im in a long running game right now...
02:16:25  <debdog> hehe, hope you don't have too many trains running
02:17:34  <Vadtec> only
02:18:14  <Vadtec> derp... 90
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02:18:58  <Vadtec> i just dont have any way to build a maglev network alongside my other rails
02:19:09  <Vadtec> some of these stations are hard core land locked
02:20:10  <debdog> hmm, there is a way to convert.
02:20:23  <Vadtec> yeah, i can covert the rails no problem
02:20:30  <Vadtec> its the trains thats the issue
02:20:46  <debdog> but each train separately and preferably one train per depot
02:21:03  <debdog> it's somewhere in the wiki, let me check....
02:22:46  <debdog>
02:23:44  <Vadtec> hmmm
02:24:01  <Vadtec> if i didnt have 6-8 trains per grouping that might work
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02:25:23  <Vadtec> im thinking ill clone each train in the new depot, then convert the track and hook the depot up to the new track
02:32:58  <Vadtec> well thats going to be tedious....
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02:45:40  <Vadtec> does anyone have a set of instructions on how to build the dual-tetrathorp? im building it, but i keep coming up with mismatches and its pissin me off
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08:45:43  <Wolf01> o/
08:46:07  <nekomaster1> its morning!
08:46:31  <Wolf01> Yep
08:46:40  <nekomaster1> today would be a great day to finish up my narrow gauge stuff :P
08:47:21  <nekomaster1> ONly thing I hate is that I have this feelling I have something important to do but I know I have nothing to do today (other then maybe dishes and have a shower)
08:58:15  <Eddi|zuHause> we call this "holiday"
08:58:25  <nekomaster1> Hmm?
08:58:30  <nekomaster1> Mondays are not holidays :P
08:58:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but this monday is.
08:59:03  <nekomaster1> And part of this feeling I have makes me anxious because I know if I dont get shit done then someone is going to get pissed off
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12:47:56  <__ln__> was Volkswagen the only Volks* in the west?
12:48:04  <nekomaster1> Hmm?
12:48:16  <nekomaster1> As far as I know, Theres only one Volkswagen in North America
12:49:06  <__ln__> haha, only an american could respond like that to my question
12:49:07  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: no, there's also "Volksbank"
12:49:57  <__ln__> ah, yes, i've certainly seen their name and logo
12:50:11  <nekomaster1> ALso I'm not american
12:50:13  <nekomaster1> I'm Canadian
12:50:19  <nekomaster1> :p
12:50:35  <__ln__> i didn't say you're unitedstatesian
12:50:45  <nekomaster1> What?
12:52:02  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: the fun thing about "amercia does (not) equal the united states" argument is that you can arbitrarily go back and forth on it to support whatever you tried to say
12:52:35  <nekomaster1> HOnestly, My arguement is that if we're going to get technical, then how about we start calling every country byt its full and sometimes complicated or long name
12:53:16  <Eddi|zuHause> like, countries who call themselves different to how everyone else calls them, yet have no idea where that name even comes from?
12:53:33  <nekomaster1> Or how some countries have the common name and an official name
12:53:35  <Eddi|zuHause> ("suomi")
12:53:49  <nekomaster1> like Russia, and then theres the Russian Federation
12:54:13  <Wolf01> Like Italy and Bananas' Republic
12:54:35  <nekomaster1> Or Spain, aka The Kingdom of Spain
12:55:21  <nekomaster1> Honestly I think its silly to argue over trivilities like people calling USA "America" or just calling people from USA "American", because last I checked nobody really cares
12:55:39  <nekomaster1> except for the few canadians that dont like being mistaken for an American :P
12:56:10  <__ln__> anyway, the "west" i was referring to in my question obviously wasn't a reference to the wild west.
12:57:08  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i can't think of another obvious example. maybe try asking actual westerners :p
12:57:44  <nekomaster1> No, when I here West, I think of the Western Hemi-sphere
12:57:54  <nekomaster1> Or Western Society
12:58:18  <frosch123> Wolf01: he, germany is the banana republic
12:58:48  <frosch123> __ln__: there are also some insurances called volks*
12:59:04  <Wolf01> I'm starting to think it's spreading to the entire EU
12:59:05  <nekomaster1> Isn't volks something along hte line of "people"
12:59:18  <nekomaster1> So like, The Peoples Bank, or the Peoples Insurance
12:59:24  <__ln__> "of the people", "people's"
12:59:26  <frosch123> __ln__: volkswohlbund
12:59:30  <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster1: yes, and it was a popular prefix in eastern block countries
12:59:31  <nekomaster1> Of the people, we the people
12:59:39  <nekomaster1> i dunno what I just said
12:59:49  <Eddi|zuHause> where socialism was everything about benefiting "the people"
12:59:50  <nekomaster1> I should just go back to finnsihing up my narrow gauge stuff
13:00:33  <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster1: as in "people's republic of <wherever>"
13:00:34  <frosch123> __ln__: some people also like to collect old volksempfänger
13:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that kinda predates the east/west divide :p
13:01:07  <frosch123> the others don't?
13:01:21  <frosch123> or do you mean that they still need to exist today?
13:01:21  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly, but they were still "actively" in use later
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13:03:02  <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster1: anyway, the question context was, since "people's <whatever>" was kinda in inflationary use in the east, did western countries stay away from it, or were there also examples of use
13:03:52  <nekomaster1> I dunno about north america, becuase stuff seen as "for the people" tended to seem socialist, and people know how USA was about anything that seemed socialist
13:04:00  <frosch123> __ln__: volkshochschule is still a thing
13:04:07  <nekomaster1> even some Americans think Canada is Socialist
13:04:26  <__ln__> frosch123: right
13:05:15  <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster1: isn't the canadian head of government from the socialist party?
13:05:26  <nekomaster1> Liberal
13:05:28  <frosch123> not sure when volksschule was replaced by hauptschule
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13:06:29  <Eddi|zuHause> nekomaster1: is that not the same thing? americans call "liberal" what europeans call "socialist"
13:06:48  <nekomaster1> Liberals seems to be the party that wants to get shit done in Canada
13:06:53  <Eddi|zuHause> and european "liberal" is something very different
13:07:10  <nekomaster1> Arm the military, push for new things, even if it sometimes comes with some negatives
13:07:49  <nekomaster1> The Concervatives of Canada where too convervative under Stephen Harper
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14:31:07  <Alberth> o/
14:31:13  <nekomaster1> oi
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14:48:25  <Alberth> meh, no truck grf loaded
14:49:39  <Alberth> hmm, maybe build a canal instead?
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15:30:34  <Alberth> andy, green is a bad industry colour :)
15:32:01  <frosch123> andy plays on purple map
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15:33:33  <Alberth> tried that too for a while, but it's too ugly
15:34:30  <Alberth>
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15:49:30  <andythenorth> oh
15:49:45  <andythenorth> Alberth: $someone could write a colour checker in the FIRS compiler
15:49:56  <andythenorth> a guard against bad industry colours, based on contrast with the map colours
15:50:35  <peter1138> andythenorth
15:50:54  <andythenorth> is me
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15:55:03  <Alberth> sounds more like a linter, although integration into nml is more likely for keeping maintained
15:56:43  <andythenorth> could be done at the nml level
15:56:47  <andythenorth> raise a warning
15:58:27  <Alberth> hmm, map colours are quite hard-coded of course, wouldn't be terribly difficult to do
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17:55:07  <Wolf01> python cookbook anyone?
18:02:06  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:07:40  <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: thanks, that looks useful
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18:19:48  <Alberth> I probably know most of it :p
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18:20:54  <Aderonis> Hello, i have a question, can you delete or hide basic TTD vehicles so i can play with only Newgrf vehicles?
18:21:27  <frosch123> that's the default behaviour
18:21:27  <Alberth> many newgrfs hide default vehicles (but not all)
18:21:47  <Alberth> alternatively, you can hide them manually with the "hide" button in the buy menu
18:21:50  <frosch123> you probably added a newgrf like "old vehicles, new cargos", which explicitly adds the original ones
18:22:21  <Aderonis> but i must hide all of them manulay, no option to hide all
18:24:33  <Aderonis> thank you all!
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18:29:10  <andythenorth> o/
18:32:24  <Wolf01> o/
18:33:00  <V453000> heyo
18:33:10  <V453000> andythenorth: I am generating code with python XD
18:33:16  <V453000> it's fucking hell
18:33:21  <andythenorth> proper
18:33:25  <Wolf01> Mmmh, cousin asked for a webservice to browse the parameters of various Siemens S7 PLC scattered around the region...
18:33:26  <andythenorth> devloloper
18:33:53  <V453000> idk
18:34:04  <V453000> I could have had it finished by now twice XD
18:34:16  <V453000> hopefully done with the generator tomorrow
18:34:22  <Wolf01> My answer was "yes, 6 months and 7000€"
18:34:30  <V453000> but think of the possibilities!
18:34:45  <V453000> all that code generated in under 1s, you would have been writing it for a day or two
18:34:56  <V453000> writing generator for a week...
18:35:14  <V453000> :P
18:35:25  <V453000> but it's good, learning things
18:36:21  <frosch123>  :)
18:36:57  <V453000> =[
18:38:01  <frosch123> i like the dark grey cells
18:42:23  <V453000> missed opportunity to write something interesting there
18:47:30  <frosch123> i was in a meeting once, where someone talked about a maintenance task that would take 5 days to complete, and then he suggested to run it weekly
18:49:53  <V453000> not bad
19:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause> so you start the task on monday, are finished on friday, the machine is unused on weekends, and then you start the job on monday?
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19:30:15  <supermop> frosch123: you should just add that xkcd to the topic of this channel
19:30:47  <frosch123> sadly there is a limit to the length of the topic
19:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> just put every xkcd in the topic, they're all relevant
19:37:19  <supermop> random xkcd link
19:37:37  <supermop> will probably be pertinent to any discussion
19:47:08  <Deactivated> Guys what's the limit for that sprite_cache_size_px thing?
19:47:23  <frosch123> 512
19:47:43  <Deactivated> ok thx :)
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20:36:50  <Wolf01> lol
20:37:02  <Wolf01> "and is more powerful than your PC"
20:39:03  <Alkel_U3> Powelful, huh. So, will it melt through the floor or are you required to dip it in liquid nitrogen frequently?
20:40:08  <Wolf01> Apple (and apple fans too) has a strange vision of "powerful"
20:44:13  <andythenorth> is powerful claims
20:45:11  <andythenorth> we have an ipad pro it’s surprisingly powerful
20:45:19  <andythenorth> but it is still a tablet
20:45:40  <frosch123> you you use it to serve dishes?
20:45:45  <frosch123> *can
20:46:02  <andythenorth> you can use it as a table mat
20:46:08  <andythenorth> not for hot drinks though
20:46:54  <frosch123> sounds like you talk from experience
20:48:33  <andythenorth> you can also walk on them
20:48:37  <andythenorth> but you shouldn’t, really
20:49:07  <andythenorth> and you can drop them down the stairs, at least 100% of the times I’ve seen it done
20:49:16  <frosch123> if you have one, you can fight over it. if you have two you can fight with them?
20:49:18  <andythenorth> although I heard it’s not a guaranteed feature
20:49:31  <andythenorth> yes
20:49:39  <andythenorth> both those features are supported
20:52:46  <frosch123> <- another popular feature
20:54:41  <andythenorth> :P
20:54:54  <andythenorth> my kids physically can’t eat unless the ipad is present
20:55:00  <andythenorth> it’s a pavlovian reflex of some kind
20:55:18  <andythenorth> OMG my laptop is outdated :o
20:55:27  <andythenorth> I feel dismayed :P
20:55:40  <andythenorth> I am now .2Ghz behind the bleeding edge
20:56:44  <frosch123> my current computer i am using for the longest time i have ever used a computer
20:56:59  <frosch123> it's 7 years old, never had one in use longer
20:57:56  <andythenorth> my wife’s is about the same
20:58:09  <andythenorth> I added an SSD, it’s really hard to complain about it
20:59:01  <andythenorth> unless you want USB 3, Hi-DPI display, 802.11n etc
20:59:12  <andythenorth> basically it plays netflix and makes word docs
20:59:45  <frosch123> mine even has usb3
20:59:57  <frosch123> but i do not have a usb3 device
21:00:13  <andythenorth> get a USB 3 mouse
21:00:16  <andythenorth> for faster pointing
21:00:26  <Eddi|zuHause> mine has usb3, but only on the back, it's annoying to attach a drive to it
21:00:34  <frosch123> i considered getting a new mouse
21:00:46  <frosch123> it's about 17 years old, and starts looking greasy
21:01:00  <frosch123> it's first generation optical
21:01:11  <andythenorth> microsoft?
21:01:14  <andythenorth> lasts for ever?
21:01:16  <frosch123> logitech
21:01:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i've warranty-replaced my mouse like every 2 years for the past 10 years
21:02:28  <frosch123> it once had this silicone stuff in the places where you touch it
21:02:40  <frosch123> now there are finger shaped holes in it
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21:03:44  <frosch123> the trick to long living mice was, no wireless, and a usb cable extension
21:03:53  <frosch123> and optical i guess
21:04:37  <frosch123> previously either the cable broke, or the ball sensors could no longer be cleaned, or the auto-power off failed and the batteries were empty every two days
21:04:38  <Wolf01> My trick was to feed it the right amount of stuff XD
21:05:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no problem with the wirelessness of the mouse
21:06:00  <Eddi|zuHause> but the parts where i touch it degrade really quickly
21:06:12  <Eddi|zuHause> and apparently it's too dusty for the optical sensor
21:07:14  * andythenorth remembers mice
21:10:39  <andythenorth> wtf is simyoulater talking about :)
21:10:45  <andythenorth>
21:10:48  <andythenorth> have I missed a memo?
21:10:51  <Alkel_U3> I liked microsoft wheeled optical mouse the most. I wore the wheel down so much it became unusable but not before 8-10 years of abuse
21:11:26  <andythenorth> is it April 1?
21:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i had a microsoft mouse which had something wrapped around the wheel, but that wore off after like a year
21:11:41  <frosch123> tldr?
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21:12:46  <andythenorth> it’s ok, it’s just noise :)
21:12:55  <Wolf01> Redundant informations
21:13:00  <andythenorth> tl;dr: can we have a new map array?
21:13:13  <andythenorth> containing enough bits that we have all the ponies
21:13:20  <andythenorth> but implement them all as hacks on roads
21:13:21  <frosch123> play cirdan
21:13:22  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we have like 3 of those already?
21:13:23  <andythenorth> for reasons...
21:13:34  <andythenorth> I shall not reply
21:14:22  <Wolf01> Tl;dr: why we didn't change the catenary to be an addon instead of a specific road/track type? The road/track type should only provide the graphics
21:14:36  <andythenorth> that’s where it all started :P
21:14:43  <andythenorth> with my catenary patch :P
21:14:48  <Wolf01> I know
21:14:51  <frosch123> i considered splitting of the road decorations as separate
21:14:52  * andythenorth was right all along!!
21:15:01  <frosch123> and ignore the compatibility
21:15:22  <andythenorth> nyancat roads
21:15:29  <Wolf01> Because the MAIN problem now is that you can't convert a city ROAD to ELRD
21:15:33  <Eddi|zuHause> decoration as in pavement/trees/lamps?
21:15:33  <andythenorth> ‘is trolleybus’ or whatever is pink
21:15:40  <frosch123> currently we have n undergrounds, 1 roadtype, 1 tram type
21:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> clearly the lines on the road should be an overlay over the tram type :p
21:17:12  <frosch123> tram types seem to be as pointless as railtypes
21:17:22  <frosch123> and roadtypes are abused as newobjects
21:17:58  <frosch123> the latter may not be a bad thing
21:18:12  <Eddi|zuHause> instead newobjects should be abused as roadtypes (by giving them statemachines)
21:18:31  <Wolf01> Rails already had the same problem with newstations
21:18:45  <Wolf01> I agree with Eddi
21:19:03  <frosch123> statemachines are a meta game
21:19:18  <Eddi|zuHause> newgrfs are a meta game...
21:19:22  <Wolf01> We need better road control, rails are already at good point as you can control many things, but roads only have oneway
21:19:33  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: only the realism bullshit ones
21:20:09  <andythenorth> mine are a meta-game :)
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21:20:23  <andythenorth> I play to beat my own bad ideas
21:20:34  <Eddi|zuHause> => your grfs are realims bullshit :p
21:20:39  <andythenorth> somewhat
21:20:50  <Wolf01> You should really start to learn coding, and make NotWater
21:20:56  <andythenorth> isn’t it
21:21:04  <andythenorth> but first I have to finish FIRS
21:21:10  <frosch123> Wolf01: i thought juanjo already did it?
21:21:17  <andythenorth> also Iron Horse, Road Hog, CHIPS and Unsinkable Sam
21:21:21  <frosch123> was it juanjo?
21:21:21  <andythenorth> also a gamescript
21:21:28  <frosch123> sometimes i swap people
21:21:31  <Wolf01> frosch123, somewhat yes, but there is more
21:22:14  <Wolf01> Andy is really prolific with strange ideas, and the bad part is that I really like them XD
21:27:56  <andythenorth> main idea now: bed
21:28:09  <andythenorth> unless we’re solving ROAD -> ELRD? o_O
21:28:24  <frosch123> we already did, didn't we?
21:28:32  <frosch123> noone implemented it though
21:28:36  <Wolf01> Yes, we did, remove and rebuild
21:29:26  <Wolf01> The same problem exists with oneway (where you can make oneway only your own road)
21:29:54  <frosch123> that's not the same
21:30:01  <frosch123> you can upgrade town bridges for example
21:30:02  <Wolf01> But that is a real influence on vehicle movement
21:33:01  <Wolf01> I would like to finish the patch to check for compatibility, maybe it could also help on these things
21:33:16  <Wolf01> At the current state it fixes the problems in SE
21:33:51  <Wolf01> But it lacks some cases as you stated before
21:34:12  <andythenorth> what was the fix?  Always allow overbuilding town roads? o_O
21:34:42  <Wolf01> Allow upgrading roads
21:34:51  <Wolf01> But what "upgrade" means?
21:35:20  <frosch123> andythenorth: allow converting town road to anything that is compatible to ROAD
21:35:44  <andythenorth> seems fair
21:35:50  <frosch123> no other before/afterc compatibility considered
21:36:01  <frosch123> it's best in singleplayer
21:36:20  <frosch123> and there is no proper solution for hostile multiplayer anyway
21:36:49  <Wolf01> Bridges and/or tunnels
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21:37:22  <Wolf01> Too bad we can't have an owner for every roadbit
21:39:51  * andythenorth -> bed
21:39:57  <andythenorth> bye :)
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23:12:48  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:36:50  <supermop> I  missed all the road talk
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