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so we could resurrect them on the channel. 12:29:59 <__ln__> maybe two separate bots though, because the hybrid of those two gentlemen would be maybe too extreme. 12:30:19 <Wolf01> I used megahal 12:31:52 <__ln__> isn't that pretty old and outputs nonsense? 12:32:56 <Wolf01> Some gibberish because of the recursive sentence composition, but it was funny 12:34:21 <__ln__> the minimum for funny has increased over the years 13:20:51 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:51:19 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:06:32 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:09:44 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 14:24:42 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:24:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:24:46 <Alberth> o/ 14:44:14 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:54:33 *** synchris has joined #openttd 15:11:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:37:45 *** Gja has quit IRC 15:49:35 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:18:21 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 16:18:35 <andythenorth_> o/ 16:21:19 <Alberth> o/ 16:21:22 <andythenorth_> Hi 16:22:49 * andythenorth_ puzzling trains still :p 16:23:43 <andythenorth_> Current challenge: I don't like that engines get longer then shorter 16:23:53 <andythenorth_> According to realism 16:25:02 <andythenorth_> e.g http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7666/antelope_7.png 16:26:49 <Alberth> better than the other way around, at least 16:26:50 <andythenorth_> One option would be to OP the steam engines and nerf the diesels/electrics 16:27:39 <Alberth> add some cargo-part to the shorter engine? 16:27:47 <Alberth> nuts does that afaik 16:28:19 <Alberth> could be useful for supplies ;) 16:28:20 <andythenorth_> I could multiple-unit the diesels/electrics 16:28:27 <andythenorth_> E.g the chinook 16:28:44 <Alberth> ah, good train, that 16:28:55 <andythenorth_> it's even realism until 1980 or so 16:29:25 <Alberth> for realists, stop playing at 1980 :) 16:29:42 <andythenorth_> I am going to increase the unrealism 16:30:04 <Alberth> sounds good to me :) 16:30:10 * andythenorth_ is handicapped by knowing too much about rl trains 16:30:27 <andythenorth_> V does not have that problem :p 16:30:35 <Alberth> :) 16:30:54 <Alberth> it takes time to unlearn all the wrong things you know :) 16:32:02 <Alberth> I am not bothered by engines getting shorter tbh 16:32:31 <Alberth> At some point I need to make a new train for the next gen wagons anyway 16:33:46 <Alberth> afk 16:37:17 *** Gja has quit IRC 16:40:20 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 16:45:11 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 16:45:20 <Wolf01> o/ 16:53:15 <andythenorth_> Hi wolf 16:55:34 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:59:10 <Wolf01> Quak 16:59:16 <frosch123> bau 17:03:31 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:05:21 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 17:20:15 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:20:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:33:15 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:36:09 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 17:38:59 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 17:45:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27891 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2017-07-25 19:45:37 +0200 ) 17:45:44 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 17:45:45 <DorpsGek> spanish: 29 changes by SilverSurferZzZ 17:45:58 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 17:50:55 <andythenorth_> So engines: 17:51:09 <andythenorth_> - fast pax (high hp, low TE) 17:51:40 <andythenorth_> - small fast pax (same but small, for branchlines) 17:52:08 <andythenorth_> - large freight (low speed, high TE) 17:52:25 <andythenorth_> - medium freight (same but smaller) 17:52:27 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:53:12 <andythenorth_> - railcars 8/8 single unit refittable to pax/express 17:53:48 <andythenorth_> railcars fail in current IH it's usually more profitable to use an engine & coaches 17:53:59 <andythenorth_> dunno why 17:56:25 <Alberth> railcars are the combined passenger/mail wagons? 17:57:50 <andythenorth_> nah, they are the small diesel trains 17:57:54 <andythenorth_> Slammer etc 18:04:58 <andythenorth_> Should train progression provide more capacity per unit length? Or constant? 18:05:24 <andythenorth_> Because we don't have consist management, both options suck :) 18:07:13 <Alberth> simplest is probably only needing to do engine replacement 18:07:30 <Alberth> which would suggest we keep the same wagons (forever) 18:08:21 <andythenorth_> I'm not sure what the best schema is 18:08:59 <andythenorth_> Road Hog increases speed, power and capacity per generation, but lengths are constant 18:09:18 <Alberth> making jumps in wagons would be another option, ie a new wagon with more capacity for a new engine 18:09:48 <andythenorth_> it's relatively trivial to scrap some RVs if a route is over-provided after a vehicle upgrade 18:09:58 <Alberth> pushing the user to make a full replacement 18:10:23 <andythenorth_> Yes, my intent is matching wagon and engine upgrades 18:10:48 <andythenorth_> At least for 3 out of 4 generations 18:11:15 <andythenorth_> I guess if capacity is suddenly too high, scrap a few trains? 18:11:36 <andythenorth_> But then deliveries are much less frequent 18:11:55 <andythenorth_> 300t train > 400t after upgrade 18:11:56 <Alberth> I think it hardly matters, as long as you're not running in the red 18:12:28 <andythenorth_> RVs, a 25% capacity upgrade has much less impact 18:13:11 <Alberth> basically, the mass-replacements of default track types have that problem, and afaik, people just mostly copy/paste the entire setup and train fleet to the new track-type 18:13:43 <Alberth> they don't bother fine-tuning, I think 18:14:11 <Alberth> for default industries it's not so bad though, as industries will grow and fill the gap 18:14:16 <andythenorth_> Arguably the best upgrade for player is higher capacity and _shorter_ :p 18:14:28 <andythenorth_> better track utilisation 18:14:42 <Alberth> sounds fair 18:14:59 <andythenorth_> FIRS doesn't grow industries in same way as default eh :p 18:15:08 <Alberth> faster may actually need more track than slow 18:15:24 <andythenorth_> Really? 18:15:27 <andythenorth_> :) 18:15:28 <Alberth> even though fast is much more interesting to play with :p 18:15:44 <Alberth> it's the case on RL high-ways afaik 18:15:54 <andythenorth_> Stopping distance 18:16:03 <Alberth> yep, likely 18:16:24 <andythenorth_> What's the 'remove wagons' thing on auto-replace? 18:16:33 <andythenorth_> It's quite magic 18:16:46 <andythenorth_> Anyone know what it does? 18:16:47 <Alberth> it is indeed 18:17:05 <andythenorth_> It seems to understand brake vans:p 18:17:17 <Alberth> iirc it removes wagons to compensate for the longer engine 18:18:04 <andythenorth_> It always seems to have a good result 18:18:11 <Alberth> and I am not surprised if it would understand cabeese things :) 18:18:28 * andythenorth_ wonders about a 'maintain capacity' option 18:19:02 <andythenorth_> bbl, losing signal :( 18:19:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:19:52 <Alberth> much of the auto-replace code should be changed into something that works better, in some way, I think 18:20:40 <Alberth> it feels as too much ad-hoc additions 18:24:27 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 18:28:03 <frosch123> you mean template-based autoreplace? :) 18:28:44 <Alberth> seems like a nicer solution, doesn't it? 18:29:16 <Alberth> but so far, I have sufficient problems with FioOpenFile :p 18:29:23 <frosch123> yep, same for construction 18:29:39 <frosch123> build train from template, instead of copy, delete orders, add new orders 18:29:56 <Alberth> I do like the original low-level complexity though 18:30:00 <frosch123> s/copy/clone/ 18:30:36 <Alberth> much simpler to get into the game, without the need to make templates etc first 18:30:45 <frosch123> well, when FioOpenFile is done, maybe we can finally add some cache for tar, newgrf and scenario scanning :) 18:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think autoreplace actually knows about brake vans, but it takes away the wagons not from the end, but from the beginning, i think 18:31:29 <Alberth> many tycoon-ish games connect orders etc also to consist, so you have to setup a lot of stuff to get one train running 18:32:49 <Alberth> that's how myths are born :) 18:34:44 <Wolf01> <frosch123> you mean template-based autoreplace? :) <- transport fever has it and I don't like it the way is implemented, maybe we could do it a lot better 18:36:29 <Wolf01> Also, I thought it was like... dead. Instead they are about to throw out this good patch https://www.transportfever.net/news/index.php/News/93-Gameplay-Patch-angek%C3%BCndigt/?s=3a7ee9eb87e620057c2657ba734a739dd2f58d46 18:38:02 <frosch123> Wolf01: there is a maintained patch on forums 18:40:25 *** Progman has quit IRC 18:40:27 *** andythen_ has joined #openttd 18:40:46 <Wolf01> Andy then... then what? 18:41:07 <andythen_> Flakey connections 18:41:16 <andythen_> On a phone :p 18:41:47 <frosch123> did you try turning wifi off :p 18:42:37 <frosch123> https://www.xkcd.com/1865/ 18:43:29 <andythen_> Rather too accurate :p 18:43:45 <andythen_> But wifi is free, 4g costs £ 18:44:53 <andythen_> If wagons were 2x 4/8, then 8/8, that might nearly work 18:45:07 <andythen_> I have to abandon realism though eh 18:46:05 <andythen_> Very common uk/european freight wagons have 2 axles and should be 6/8 long 18:49:15 <andythen_> realism must die eh :( 18:51:43 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:56:18 <Wolf01> Yeah 19:11:25 <andythen_> 6/8 kind of looks good though :| 19:11:34 <andythen_> It's totally illogical 19:11:55 <andythen_> Logic > aesthetics? 19:12:07 <andythen_> Or aesthetics > logic? 19:12:19 <frosch123> well, fake the length of the last wagon to be either 4/8 or 8/8 19:12:33 <frosch123> so that trains always fit whole tiles 19:12:51 <andythen_> Considered that, but sometimes it has to be 2/8 no? 19:13:06 <frosch123> no, then the previous would be 8/8 19:13:45 <andythen_> Magic wagons might solve it 19:14:13 <frosch123> or use dual-headed engines 19:14:22 <frosch123> with variable length cabage 19:14:46 <frosch123> actually, i think we would have to patch that first :p 19:14:58 <frosch123> for some reason dual-headed engines are neglected 19:18:05 *** Gja has quit IRC 19:19:57 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:23:01 <andythen_> I dropped dual headed due to crazy 3-part vehicles for 10/8 length 19:23:26 <andythen_> Not sure that's needed :p 19:23:57 <andythen_> Can dual-headed be abused for auto-caboose? :p 19:24:17 <Wolf01> That was my proposal too 19:30:20 *** andythen_ has quit IRC 19:31:26 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 19:36:18 <andythenorth_> How often do 6/8 vehicles hit integer or half-integer lengths? 19:36:43 <andythenorth_> 18/8 is 2.25? 19:37:10 <frosch123> andythenorth_: V uses dual-headed for auto-caboose 19:37:46 <andythenorth_> The rear sprites can be separate? 19:37:57 <frosch123> apparently 19:38:05 <andythenorth_> Presumably 'caboose' = slug tail? 19:38:39 <frosch123> nah, there is some weird push-train 19:38:48 <frosch123> flat wagon as head, real engine at back 19:39:04 <frosch123> probably there is some joke 19:39:07 <frosch123> but i did not get it :p 19:39:51 <frosch123> 6/8 vehicles can match a tile, be 2/8 short of a tile or 2/8 longer than a tile 19:40:01 <frosch123> there are only three options 19:40:26 <andythenorth_> 12/8 is 1.5 o_O 19:41:15 <frosch123> hint: any 16-multiple of a wagon will always fit a whole tile :p 19:41:33 <frosch123> for the rest you need the greates-common-divider of train length and 16 19:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> greater fun if length is a prime number ;) 19:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... i have a train deadlock in cities skylines 19:51:42 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 19:54:03 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 19:54:38 <andythenorth_> ach so 12/8 is 0.75 :p 19:54:47 <andythenorth_> silly andythenorth 19:58:02 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 20:03:33 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 20:08:27 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 20:09:50 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:25:15 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:26:15 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:36:51 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 20:40:21 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 20:43:37 *** roidal_ has joined #openttd 20:50:31 *** roidal has quit IRC 20:57:23 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:19:31 *** synchris has quit IRC 22:15:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:20:48 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:40:20 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:52:43 *** Celestar1 has quit IRC 22:53:28 *** dark_pingus has quit IRC 23:05:52 *** Celestar has joined #openttd 23:43:21 *** Biolunar has quit IRC