Log for #openttd on 13th August 2017:
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04:08:59  <Thanark_> How do I remove a forest?
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04:15:45  <Thanark_> Also, website down?
05:10:42  <Shoshonite> says it is down now. I cant reach it
05:19:52  <Thanark_> Roger
05:20:28  <Thanark_> Any reason to have more than one train depot at a coal mine? Only seems to have enough to keep up with one train worth of coal anyways.
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05:47:40  <Flygon> Thanark: Autoreplace.
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06:05:20  <Alberth> moin
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06:10:19  <Alberth> o/
06:12:47  <andythenorth> hi
06:18:59  <Alberth> a sunny sunday, today
06:21:59  <andythenorth> same here
06:24:57  <andythenorth> balloons
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06:30:12  * andythenorth wonders why trains won’t flip in depot with ctrl-click
06:30:57  <Alberth> I never understood this flipping thing
06:31:33  <Alberth> apparently, it's relevant how the trains drives?
06:33:04  <Alberth> I wondered if you could make a networking game script
06:33:35  <andythenorth> flipping is just eye-candy :)
06:33:43  <andythenorth> if it wasn’t possible I wouldn’t bother :)
06:33:50  <Alberth> where you get assignments to bring more cargo to a few places, so you get the problem of expanding network capacity and platforms
06:33:54  <andythenorth> networking game script?
06:34:07  <andythenorth> total connected nodes or such?
06:34:12  <andythenorth> connected destinations?
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06:34:33  <Alberth> I really like the problems of making a fluently running network
06:35:13  <andythenorth> +1
06:35:19  <andythenorth> it’s the main core of the game
06:36:33  <peter1138> point to point links!
06:37:03  <Alberth> script switches infrastructure maintenance on
06:37:37  <andythenorth> peter1138: so the best way
06:38:01  * andythenorth used to do 6 track point-point in original TTD
06:38:04  <Alberth> although apparently it's a complicated concept, baldy's boss doesn't seem to understand it
06:38:14  <andythenorth> no comment
06:38:20  <Alberth> 6 track?
06:38:38  <andythenorth> 6 station platforms at ore mine -> 6 station platforms at steel mill
06:38:46  <Alberth> :O
06:38:46  <andythenorth> no crossings, no signals, no junctions
06:38:56  <andythenorth> 6 was the maximum iirc
06:39:04  <Alberth> max station size
06:39:24  <andythenorth> for some reason I used to build all 6 at once
06:39:34  <andythenorth> instead of getting one started then adding more
06:39:46  <andythenorth> then the iron mine would close before I got finished :P
06:39:48  <Alberth> it's simpler :)
06:39:55  <Alberth> haha :)
06:40:11  <andythenorth> anyway, point-to-point ftw
06:40:19  <andythenorth> but usually I do this :P,%2001-05-2007.png
06:40:21  <Alberth> add a "tease player" mode :p
06:41:14  <Alberth> that takes a while to decode :)
06:41:27  <Alberth> organically built tracks are the best though
06:41:56  <andythenorth> I need HAUL road mixed in
06:42:10  <andythenorth> just for extra tile contention
06:42:12  <Alberth> hmm, would be nice if we could enforce that playing style in the script
06:42:33  <Alberth> I don't use RVs enough
06:42:54  <Alberth> although one game at 64x64 with firs extreme...
06:42:57  <andythenorth> nah we don’t need to enforce a playing style :)
06:43:01  <andythenorth> just….encourage it
06:43:09  <Alberth> not enough space for trains
06:43:13  <andythenorth> so how do we reward connecting nodes?
06:43:40  <andythenorth> Busy Bee, but generate goals that add edges to already-connected nodes?
06:44:00  <Alberth> score on using less rail tiles
06:44:18  <Alberth> or road tiles
06:44:19  <andythenorth> it’s a common thing in Railroad Tycoon goals to have limited track tile counts
06:44:29  <andythenorth> either total amount, or amount available to build per year
06:44:49  <Alberth> haha, you place one, the script removes it again :p
06:45:31  <Alberth> just counting number of rail tiles and road tiles would be enough, I think
06:45:44  <Alberth> with a rough computation of minimum required or so
06:47:11  <Alberth> you can indeed extend BB to take already present tracks into account
06:48:06  <Alberth> assume player will use it, so don't count that distance (or count it less)
06:49:00  <Alberth> but BB generates targets all over the place, so you never get that concentration needed for problems in expanding stations
06:49:46  <Alberth> laying more track is quite easy, although with a less score if you take number of rail tiles into account
06:50:25  <Alberth> oh, we should also count station tiles!
06:50:47  <Alberth> pushing for the optimal use of resources
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06:59:24  <Alberth> maybe just punishing station tiles is enough?
06:59:39  <Alberth> that already breaks your point-to-point connections
07:00:59  <andythenorth> might work
07:01:26  <andythenorth> Station Limits
07:01:40  <andythenorth> there’s probably a pun somewhere :P
07:06:23  <Alberth> :D
07:06:39  * andythenorth fixed Iron Horse ctrl-click flipping
07:06:45  <andythenorth> but…most sprites are symmetrical :D
07:06:56  <Alberth>  more eye-candy :)
07:07:18  <Alberth> it's a feature, doesn't need to be a useful feature :p
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07:11:33  <adf88> doesn't "feature" mean "useful" ? :p
07:11:36  <adf88> hi
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07:13:00  <peter1138> no
07:13:24  <peter1138> crashing when trying to take a screenshot is a feature
07:14:24  <adf88> that's a "hidden feature" :)
07:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> a feature is a feature is a feature
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07:20:21  <adf88> english is not very well in recursions, maybe try another language :p
07:33:07  * andythenorth finds more FS to close 
07:33:12  <andythenorth> spam spam spam spam
07:33:19  <andythenorth> oh I broke it
07:42:53  <peter1138> brutal
07:43:08  <andythenorth> at least there’ll be no more FS spam
07:43:21  <peter1138> wiki and www was already broken
07:43:26  * andythenorth wonders what would be lost if FS just….died
07:43:28  <peter1138> probably from all that FS spam yesterday
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07:45:13  <Wolf01> o/
07:45:49  <Alberth> o/
07:46:21  <andythenorth> we could probably just use github for pissing people off by saying ‘no’ to tickets
07:46:28  <andythenorth> or accepting crash logs that nobody looks at :)
07:46:35  <andythenorth> no need to run our own service for that
07:47:00  <andythenorth> wow, there’s a huge JJ fork
07:47:07  <andythenorth> what does that do then? o_O
07:47:18  <peter1138> too much
07:47:29  <peter1138> i was looking over it to steal bits
07:47:40  <peter1138> but there's massive changes early on
07:47:41  <andythenorth>
07:48:07  <andythenorth> “ A special one-tile dock can be built on a flat water tile"
07:48:32  <andythenorth> also
07:48:44  <peter1138> i need to figure out how to set up a dev environment under windows again
07:48:54  <peter1138> i suspect it'll probably involve "set up a debian vm"
07:49:14  <andythenorth> Docker!
07:49:18  <andythenorth> or something :P
07:49:38  <andythenorth> I should clone his repo
07:49:49  <peter1138> i probably did
07:49:56  <peter1138> there are some others
07:50:25  * andythenorth does
07:51:43  <andythenorth> too many openttd’s running :P
07:51:48  <andythenorth> such patches and forks
07:51:56  <andythenorth> also too many apostrophes
07:51:58  <Thanark_> What do I do about a crashed train?
07:52:10  <andythenorth> wait
07:52:46  * andythenorth waits for a compile
07:52:49  * andythenorth needs faster computer
07:55:38  <Thanark_> Now that I crashed 4 of my trains I wish I remembered what jobs they were on
07:55:58  <peter1138> you can still see that while they are crashed
07:56:26  <andythenorth> ach, jj-last won’t build for me :|
07:56:52  <Alberth> just click the crashed trains, or even clone them
07:57:07  <peter1138> i never tested building it
07:57:30  <andythenorth> _probably_ OS X crap
07:57:31  <Thanark_> Ah wish I knew that before they disspeared. :|
07:57:33  * andythenorth checking
07:57:42  <Thanark_> Good to know for next time
07:57:44  <andythenorth> Thanark_: reload an autosave
07:57:55  <andythenorth> oh yeah, wiki is gone
07:58:01  <andythenorth> so OS X compile instructions are gone :)
07:58:04  <peter1138> if you're reloading autosaves, then reload before the crash ;p
08:00:07  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> oh yeah, wiki is gone <- entire is gone
08:00:16  <andythenorth> yup
08:01:21  <Wolf01> Need to wake up that T***B**** guy?
08:01:44  <Thanark_> Wished saved games saved the windows I had pinned.
08:02:16  <andythenorth> errors are a lot of this
08:02:21  <andythenorth> repeating
08:04:04  <andythenorth> the master branch builds in that fork, it looks like clean openttd master
08:04:11  <andythenorth> the jj-last branch is the one that fails
08:04:16  <andythenorth> JJ-last *
08:08:45  <LordAro> Wolf01: i'd suggest actually waking TrueBrain up might be more productive :p
08:09:12  <Wolf01> +1
08:09:43  <LordAro> nothing responding on port 80, load balancer's probably fallen over
08:09:51  <LordAro> at a guess
08:11:11  <Wolf01> Put it on the table again, maybe some andy's cat tripped on it
08:11:17  <LordAro> also, lol, is completely broken for me - it's got the revoked startcom cert which chrome refuses to let me through, and paste.oc.o redirects to https
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08:16:47  <Wolf01> Shit, what am I downloading... the entire github?
08:17:03  <Flygon> Well.
08:17:12  <Flygon> If you want to speedtest your net connection thoroughly?...
08:17:34  <Flygon> It's either that or a popular Game of Thrones torrent. Not that I endorse piracy. I don't. :V
08:17:49  <Flygon> But, just sayin', it's a good way to test a gigabit connection. :VVVV
08:18:00  <Wolf01> Usually we download a linux iso to test the bandwidth
08:19:18  <Wolf01> The problem is that netflix thing which uses up my bandwidth actually :P
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08:31:13  <andythenorth> herp
08:31:25  <andythenorth> articulated vehicles with different cargos per unit, slightly auto-refittable :P
08:31:28  <andythenorth> it worked before
08:31:34  * andythenorth had better read the old code :P
08:32:34  <TrueBrain> well, this is odd .. everything is operational, but the internal network is no longer responding .. that is a new one ..
08:33:37  <Shoshonite> When compiling a newGRF it keeps telling me "8bpp images does not have a palette" suggestions.
08:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause> when saving the image, make sure you checked "keep unused colours"
08:35:03  <Shoshonite> I wouldnt have wasted the good wine on it if I had know it didnt have a palette.
08:35:10  <andythenorth> :P
08:35:13  <Shoshonite> ok tkx
08:35:44  <TrueBrain> lets reboot this whole machine ... wtf really ...
08:36:25  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: being sysadmin sounds like "fun" :p
08:37:05  <TrueBrain> especially as that fixed the issue
08:37:18  <TrueBrain> everything was as it should
08:37:23  <TrueBrain> interface was reporting the IPs
08:37:25  <TrueBrain> routes were in place
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08:37:33  <TrueBrain> but .. it did not find the interface to route packets on
08:38:04  <TrueBrain> I am just really happy the whole infrastructure is fractured .. only the main gateway lost its way :P So an easy reboot
08:38:16  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you can use the wiki again!!! :P
08:40:33  <andythenorth> awesome :)
08:40:37  <andythenorth> can you leave FS offline? o_O
08:40:40  <andythenorth> might be better
08:41:12  <TrueBrain> I was looking for a forum thread yelling it was offline, but it isnt there! :D
08:41:27  <TrueBrain> that made me look into another thread .. that made me lookup stats about the traffic etc
08:41:34  <andythenorth> do we get traffic?
08:41:50  <TrueBrain> after 2 years of a "poor" summar, we are back on the traffc as it was in 2014
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08:42:35  <TrueBrain> we are very steady in the amount of visitors per month
08:42:36  <andythenorth> is that up or down? o_O
08:42:41  <andythenorth> are we dying less or moar?
08:42:55  <TrueBrain> from a statistical perspective, we are neither
08:42:57  <Flygon> Wolf01: I forgot you can Linux ISO.
08:43:03  <TrueBrain> 500k unique visitors a month
08:43:11  <andythenorth> unique? :o
08:43:14  <andythenorth> how many are bots?
08:43:23  <TrueBrain> as far as I can look back .. which is 6 years .. that is give or take the number
08:43:29  <andythenorth> 500k is, relatively, a shitload
08:43:35  <TrueBrain> (goes up to 800k sometimes, sometimes 300k)
08:43:52  <TrueBrain> we push 1TB of data every week of binaries
08:44:08  <TrueBrain> and that is data we register (so ignoring Linux distros, basically)
08:44:08  <Shoshonite> thats a lot of 0 and 1
08:44:09  <Wolf01> Not bad
08:44:41  <TrueBrain> @calc 1000000 / 24 / 60 / 60
08:44:41  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 11.5740740741
08:44:48  <TrueBrain> 11 requests per second ON AVERAGE over a FULL DAY
08:45:28  <andythenorth> loads
08:45:38  <andythenorth> probably dying same then
08:46:12  <TrueBrain> it always strikes me .. as I do agree with your opinion, it feels like OpenTTD is slowly dying ever since .. well .. 2010 or something .. (which is fine in my opinion)
08:46:18  <TrueBrain> but the traffic tells a completely different story
08:46:30  <TrueBrain> so I guess: the verbal people see less activity
08:46:37  <TrueBrain> the users themself enjoy the game every day
08:46:41  <TrueBrain> not more, not less :)
08:46:57  <andythenorth> I look at downloads of newgrfs in bananaramas
08:47:02  <andythenorth> always seems pretty constant
08:47:17  <TrueBrain> yup
08:47:24  <TrueBrain>
08:47:28  <TrueBrain> if you are interested in HTTP hits
08:47:29  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> errors are a lot <- even syntax errors... did he even try to compile before pushing?
08:47:36  <andythenorth> such stats :)
08:47:39  <andythenorth> Wolf01: no idea :)
08:48:34  <TrueBrain> so I wonder how the stats do not match the feeling :D
08:48:46  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: fake news
08:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that's pretty much summing up politics over the last decade or so
08:49:15  <Wolf01> BTW, I have a lot of / not overloaded for Money and uint16
08:49:20  <LordAro> TrueBrain: nice :)
08:49:51  <TrueBrain> @calc 750 / (180 + 750)
08:49:51  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.806451612903
08:49:58  <TrueBrain> on other relevant news, 80% of our users uses HTTPS
08:50:13  <andythenorth> “it is dying” = “there’s nothing new and shiny"
08:50:22  <andythenorth> two kinds of attitude to it
08:50:27  <Eddi|zuHause> you should disable http, then it's 100% :p
08:50:33  <andythenorth> “it is stable, I am playing"
08:50:43  <andythenorth> “it is not novelty, it is dying"
08:51:14  <TrueBrain> yeah .. I am serious poundering disabling HTTP
08:51:17  <TrueBrain> fr various of reasons
08:51:24  <TrueBrain> 6 months ago it was 50% btw
08:51:31  <Eddi|zuHause> do spammers use https yet?
08:51:56  <TrueBrain> but anyway, good morning all, and have a good day :D
08:52:13  <TrueBrain> poke me if anything is still not working on the internet service side :)
08:52:21  * LordAro waves
08:52:27  <Wolf01> o/ :)
08:54:04  <andythenorth> thanks TB
08:54:38  <andythenorth> quite a lot of combinations here
08:54:56  <andythenorth> 4/8 mail car, 8/8 mail car (might remove, redundant, just use 2x 4/8)
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08:55:09  <andythenorth> 8/8 pax coach, 10/8 articulated pax-mail coach
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08:58:04  <LordAro> peter1138: if you're looking for a patch queue to add... ;)
09:02:50  <Wolf01> I got JJ's last to compile, too bad it crashes loading the title savegame
09:03:08  <LordAro> works for me
09:03:14  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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09:03:29  <Wolf01> Are you compiling master?
09:03:36  <LordAro> lol
09:03:40  <LordAro> JJ-last
09:04:13  <Wolf01> It asserts on TileAdd
09:06:51  <LordAro> no issues at all here
09:06:52  <LordAro> how odd
09:07:02  <Wolf01> Mmmh
09:07:11  <LordAro> heh, titlescreen looks really bare on 1440p
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09:09:41  <Wolf01> It's strange that everybody got a different problem
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09:15:10  <Shoshonite> Do any of the wisened individuals here have any newGRF vehicle sprite alignment tricks they can share?
09:15:55  <Shoshonite> trying to get vehicles to run up a single lane of road in the center of the tile
09:17:41  <Wolf01> Don't
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09:18:49  <Shoshonite> Hadn't considered that, seems practical
09:21:02  <andythenorth> you can shift the offsets
09:21:12  <andythenorth> I wouldn’t recommend it :P
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09:24:10  <Shoshonite> It will probably make the model jerk around corners too. Blarg
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09:26:33  <_dp_> bot traffic grows so if overall stays the same it means less humans :p
09:26:52  <_dp_> from server activity I'd say there are about 10% less players than last year
09:30:35  <andythenorth> Shoshonite: it will snap horribly in corners ;)
09:30:42  <andythenorth> what are you trying to do? o_O
09:34:21  <Wolf01> What it should be done with vehicle movement instead :P
09:34:35  * andythenorth bbl
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09:34:42  <_dp_> oh, it's 16% actually for mar-jul
09:45:59  <Wolf01> Where has been moved the titlescreen?
09:47:21  <Wolf01> Found, baseset
09:54:32  <Wolf01> Ok, I was able to load it with the new titlescreen (it still asserts after some time)... I can't see many differences beside joinable docks
10:04:20  <Wolf01> Oh, bigger depots needed to be enabled in the settings
10:04:35  <Wolf01> They seem nice
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11:01:12  <Wolf01> shit... this IS a depot
11:13:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: yeah, but if only he spoke a language anyone could understand :p
11:13:55  <Wolf01> You are lucky :P
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11:31:52  <Wolf01> yes
11:55:32  <Flygon_> Wolf01: Man...
11:55:37  <Flygon_> I've had OTTD stations turn out like that.
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11:55:57  <Flygon> Somehow had really rare edge case where 50-60 tile long freight trains made sense.
11:58:25  <Wolf01>
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12:03:56  <Wolf01> here it is
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12:19:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i've seen this one before
12:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a weird edge case :p
12:20:26  <Eddi|zuHause> because the green arrow tells you "you can turn right on red light"
12:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and you can only turn right anyway
12:20:42  <Eddi|zuHause> the light doesn't need to turn green
12:20:59  <Wolf01> Here we would leave the yellow light blinking
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12:21:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but some obscure bureaucratic rule tells that it's necessary to still have a light
12:21:46  <Wolf01> Yeah, just not red :P
12:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well, those exit too, traffic lights that eternally blink yellow
12:22:05  <Wolf01> Yellow mean to pay attention when entering the intersection
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12:22:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but blinking yellow is different, blinking yellow means "treat this light as off [signs apply instead]"
12:25:49  <Wolf01> No, blinking yellow mean to pay attention, they signal a possible danger
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12:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause> blinking yellow means "this traffic light is temporarily out of service"
12:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are different types of blinking yellow lights
12:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause> there's also "there is a traffic light ahead and it's red" type of blinking yellow light
12:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> and "this is a construction site" type of blinking yellow light
12:29:46  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, still, the red light is technically correct. just a bit weird
12:30:44  <Eddi|zuHause> red light with green arrow is technically mostly the same as a stop sign
12:31:26  <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause: I mean, we handle that situation here by not having the light at all (Assuming I have the mental gymnastics in my head) - By only having lights for turning, not going forward. But it's actually really difficult to visualize the intersection in my head. :D
12:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: you can zoom out?
12:32:13  <Flygon> On the other hand... we enjoy brainfucking people with this beauty. :D
12:32:29  <Flygon> OH THERE'S A GOOGLE MAPS LINK
12:32:32  <Flygon> I must learn to read.
12:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: the main point is, because the rest of the crossing has traffic lights, this entrance to the crossing must also have one
12:32:46  <Flygon> ...
12:32:57  <Flygon> Okay, yeah. That situation is DEFINITELY handled differently here. :D
12:34:01  <Flygon> What a very German bureaucratic problem. :3
12:34:02  <Wolf01> Flygon: isn't that for tram/bus?
12:34:18  <Flygon> Wolf01: Yeah, but most Americans don't pick up on it.
12:36:51  <Flygon> It's really fun screwing with their minds - They don't tend to consider Trams having their own system!
12:38:01  <Eddi|zuHause> you can see our tram signalling on above crossing, too
12:38:11  <Eddi|zuHause> if you look at it from the other directions
12:38:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it uses white bars/dots instead of colours, though, so is easily distinguishable
12:39:14  <Alberth> discussing future NRT extensions? :)
12:39:31  <Wolf01> we enjoy people with this one
12:39:54  <Wolf01> I bet you can't see what's strange at first glance
12:40:28  <Alberth> you won
12:40:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you must go straight on the roundabout, obviously.
12:41:06  <Eddi|zuHause> can't turn right, must go a full round
12:41:12  <Wolf01> Yes
12:41:34  <Wolf01> I fucked up and did that in front of the local police :P
12:42:21  <Wolf01> Because I was following the GPS and it made me do a full round and go from where I came
12:42:43  <Wolf01> I turned back to the other roundabout and turned right there :P
12:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand the whole craze about roundabouts
12:44:44  <Wolf01> They could have used a better sign, like a forbid sign, instead of indication sign
12:45:37  <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a bit of time and a decent lawyer, you might want to challenge the sign
12:46:20  <Eddi|zuHause> because a sign forbidding a turn like that must have a valid reason to be there
12:47:21  <Wolf01> Yes, the reason was explained by the person I was going to meet, it's a narrow curve and people used to take it at fast speed, some crashes happened
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12:48:43  <Eddi|zuHause> did the police cite you on this, or just issue a warning?
12:49:08  <Wolf01> No, I think they didn't even see me, or maybe they are used to this behavior
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12:49:50  <stefino> hi, can someone explain to me why are offsets different in nml and in  the game? thanks
12:50:52  <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: completely blue (transparent) lines may be cut from sprites, and the offsets are automatically adjusted
12:51:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you can suppress that with the -c option
12:52:04  <stefino> so I have to cut out transparent parts corectly to get right absolute offsets
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12:52:37  <Wolf01> Meow
12:52:56  <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: no, you don't have to do that
12:54:41  <Flygon> <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand the whole craze about roundabouts
12:54:44  <Flygon> They're cheap.
12:55:07  <Wolf01> They allow u-turns
12:55:09  <Flygon> Our local Shire Council managed to get a lot of shit for replacing a set of traffic lights with a roundabout around 15 years ago.
12:55:31  <Flygon> The roundabout is now considered one of THE most dangerous intersections inside the town now.
12:55:41  <Flygon> Especially since it tends to rain here.
12:56:08  <Flygon> Peak hour + Lots of impatient drivers + Lots of traffic backed up + Traffic coming in from all directions = Tonnes of wheelslip and the roundabout full of traffic.
12:56:10  <Wolf01> I'm usually against replacing traffic lights with roundabouts, but I would like to have roundabouts in place of plain junctions on main roads, since it's really difficult to turn left usually
12:56:22  <Flygon> It's a miracle we haven't had a multi-car pile up.
12:57:28  <Eddi|zuHause> they replaced a regular crossing with a roundabout here. i usually drive straight across it (they paved the center, to make it easier for trucks to turn)
12:57:40  <Flygon>,144.957503,449m/data=!3m1!1e3 Since we're on the subject of roundabout, btw. :B
12:58:26  <Wolf01> "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." funny google...
12:58:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: i see the problem: they built it the wrong way around
12:58:59  <Flygon> Urgh, Google Maps overview is terrible -,-215.042377&z=19&t=h It's easier to see in GOKML.
12:59:20  <Flygon> Eddi: S'more... the Tramlines and amount of traffic going through. :V
12:59:54  <Flygon> They installed Traffic Lights in it. About 5 years ago. It was veritable hell to drive through. Still is. @_@
12:59:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: we used to have such a monstrosity
13:00:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: then they built the tram one layer deeper
13:00:30  <Flygon> Yeah, I'm not sure we'll ever submerge or viaduct the relevant Tramlines.
13:01:03  <Wolf01>,13.214952,234m/data=!3m1!1e3 They want to make 2 roundabouts here, with an hourglass shape and the railway passing in the middle of one
13:01:14  <Flygon> There's a few - well, quite a few other Tramlines going through roundabouts in the city (Comes with the world's largest Tram network :V), but this's the worst of them.
13:01:41  <Flygon> Wolf01: That solution is EXTREMELY popular here.
13:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause>,11.9831799,233m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47a6634395e461f3:0xd762f3b39ed7237!8m2!3d51.4784696!4d11.9836056
13:02:54  <Flygon>,-214.991358&z=18&t=h Since we're exchanging monstrosities of intersections - I reckon Reservoir gets a lot of points for how awful the level crossing is.
13:03:34  <Flygon> Ooh, yeah. Definitely much more room to sink the Tramline in.
13:04:12  <Flygon> (I'm not sure how they plan to 'fix up' the intersection - This segment of the line IS being viaducted)
13:04:21  <stefino> Eddi - ok, so thank you :)
13:04:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: they significantly changed the routes of the tram
13:04:52  <Flygon> Oh. O_O
13:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: where the tram is now, used to be a passenger tunnel. the tram lines from the north and from the south and from the west used to run in the center of the road
13:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and meet in the center of the circle
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13:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause> err, s/west/east
13:07:49  <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a tram line from the west, but that was eliminated much earlier
13:08:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: part of the problem was that the trams from the south entered the circle between the two bridges, and thus were hard to see from a car
13:09:17  <Eddi|zuHause> (there were no traffic lights at that time)
13:09:22  <Flygon> Ooooh.
13:09:24  <Flygon> Yowch.
13:10:58  <Eddi|zuHause> this was also the highest-traffic intersection in the whole region
13:11:28  <Flygon> I really.
13:11:30  <Flygon> REALLY must ask.
13:11:35  <Eddi|zuHause> so you had like 3 tram accidents per day
13:11:46  <Flygon> Why didn't they have interum traffic lights?
13:12:11  <Flygon> They're definitely NOT the perfect solution - Haymarket Roundabout gets a few prangs still - But they really do help.
13:12:18  <Wolf01> BTW, after NRT I would like to make some changes at vehicle movement
13:13:29  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, automatic tram-activated traffic lights only entered the picture about 20 years ago, and the reconstruction planning started like 15 years ago
13:13:31  <Wolf01> Having 2 lanes roads (4 lanes on the same tile, without pavements maybe) could be nice
13:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: *cough* statemachines *cough*
13:14:51  <Wolf01> You want to help?
13:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not
13:15:40  <Flygon> Huh.
13:15:55  <Flygon> We've had Tram activated lights for about as long as we've individually tracked Trams.
13:16:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: but you didn't have communism
13:17:10  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i suppose it could have been possible, there were tram-activated switches already in place (was a custom solution by our local tram company around 50 years ago)
13:17:51  <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause: I... uhm, admittedly, forgot that factor.
13:18:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: but that wasn't really that much of a problem, because there was not that much car traffic
13:18:14  <Flygon> Though, I gotta say - It's a miracle we kept our Tram network at all. :V
13:18:22  <Eddi|zuHause> but car numbers really exploded about 25 years ago
13:18:25  <Flygon> Every single other city in the continent followed the American example blindly.
13:18:55  <Flygon> About the only reason ours 'became' the biggest on the planet is because everyone tore up their even huger networks.
13:19:15  <Eddi|zuHause> which suddenly created problems that weren't there before, while at the same time there was not enough money to solve all the other problems that built up over 40 years of communism
13:19:41  <Flygon> Yeah, that rapid shift would be hugely problematic.
13:19:51  <Eddi|zuHause> ... while the whole economy was collapsing
13:20:40  <Flygon> Yeah. It's truly impossible for someone like me to grasp the full effect of it.
13:20:47  <Flygon> Being tucked away on my little corner of the planet.
13:20:54  <Wolf01> shit, and I don't have the credit card...
13:21:08  <Flygon> Wolf01: Have PayPal?
13:21:14  <Wolf01> Eh...
13:21:38  <Flygon> Of the "If they don't take PayPal, I'll buy it for you if you send me the money" variety.
13:22:02  <Flygon> Though. I must say.
13:22:09  <Flygon> I've never heard of a modern store not taking PayPal.
13:22:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: but you definitely also need some of the expansions...
13:22:50  <Flygon> ^
13:23:04  <Wolf01> The problem is that I need 2 days to transfer money to paypal
13:23:43  <Flygon> Oh, fuck.
13:24:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: paypal, at least here, offers to pull the money from your bank account, and will indicate that transfer to the receiver immediately (before they actually get the money)
13:25:04  <Wolf01> I need to try to change my bank account tied to paypal
13:25:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: at least all the things i ever bought with paypal were delivered immediately
13:26:14  <milek7> "pull the money fron your bank account"?
13:26:47  <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: dunno how to describe it, or if it even has an english word
13:27:35  <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: dictionary says "direct debit"
13:27:54  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno how equivalent that is
13:28:44  <milek7> but how it is authorized? just by iban number?
13:29:10  <Wolf01> Meh... 4-5 days to confirm the account
13:29:49  <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: i think they make a test charge on the account
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13:33:27  <Wolf01> Too bad paypal won't allow me to configure my debt card
13:33:37  <milek7> but you only need to enter your bank account to pay from it, like in debit/credit cards?
13:34:24  <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: yeah
13:34:52  <Wolf01> You must confirm it with the data in the payment description they send you
13:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause> mind you, i set that up like a decade ago, and don't remember all the details
13:37:54  <milek7> sounds horribly insecure
13:38:34  <Wolf01> Daniele Termini88188
13:38:39  <Wolf01> Mmmm
13:39:01  <Wolf01> Not an actual password :P
13:39:11  <milek7> here payment providers typically have integration with bank api to redirect to bank site with prefilled transfer details
13:40:38  <andythenorth> o/
13:40:47  <milek7> and they have account in all supported banks to verify payment immediately
13:43:33  <andythenorth> @seen snail
13:43:33  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: snail was last seen in #openttd 8 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 41 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Snail> I’ll post something on his thread then, thanks
13:43:39  <andythenorth> shame
13:44:13  <Alberth> nice blue train :)
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13:51:45  <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: well, with debit payments like that, the account owner can reject the payment up to 6 weeks later
13:53:48  *** Progman has joined #openttd
13:54:51  <milek7> revert transfer already done? weird
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14:01:00  <Wolf01> I knew I shouldn't have changed bank, now I have 2 OTP devices and I should remove the old one... but I can't and I can't register the new one, and if they remove the old one I wouldn't be able to access to the web banking
14:15:46  <andythenorth> and yet
14:15:54  <andythenorth> OpenTTD does in fact seem to know what a brake van is
14:16:12  <andythenorth> autoreplace handles brake vans perfectly
14:16:17  * andythenorth just tested it
14:17:42  <Wolf01> Did you try with autoremoval of wagons?
14:18:09  <andythenorth> yup
14:18:19  <andythenorth> only removes the type(s) being replaced, if they’re too long
14:18:24  <andythenorth> pretty neat
14:18:40  <Wolf01> Even if you replace the engine with a longer one?
14:18:46  <Alberth> still a partial solution :p
14:18:54  <andythenorth> Wolf01: dunno, didn’t try that
14:19:18  <andythenorth> wagon removal doesn’t apply if it’s the engine that’s longer
14:19:20  <andythenorth> apparently
14:19:41  <Wolf01> Doesn't apply or fail with caboose?
14:20:33  <andythenorth> seems not
14:20:41  <andythenorth> interesting
14:22:25  <Wolf01> +1
14:23:44  <Wolf01> You should enable the voting system on FS, there is one IIRC
14:24:01  <andythenorth> oh god
14:24:13  <andythenorth> that sounds super spiffy awesome
14:24:27  <andythenorth> the reason “nothing gets patched” is clearly because we don’t have votes :D
14:24:45  <Wolf01> hahah
14:29:16  <andythenorth> so many George FS requests
14:30:04  <Wolf01> Uhm... votes were enabled back in time
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14:30:51  <andythenorth> votes are shit
14:31:20  <Wolf01> look at this :P
14:31:32  <Wolf01> 22 votes
14:32:53  <Wolf01> Also the most wanted tasks is disappeared
14:33:06  <Wolf01> s//is
14:38:49  * andythenorth wants to close 2302
14:40:16  * andythenorth is probably biased
14:40:36  <andythenorth> ‘breakdowns: off’ all the way here
14:40:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a BAD REASON
14:42:29  <Alberth> less severe breakdowns could persuade users to keep it on
14:45:21  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly.
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14:45:47  <Eddi|zuHause> although the main problem with breakdowns is not that they break down, but that you have no means of mitigation for your network
14:48:13  <andythenorth> all that extra breakdowns stuff just seems like extra docs to write :P
14:48:23  <andythenorth> also newgrf authors will want control over it
14:50:59  <andythenorth> ho
14:51:06  <andythenorth> could we introduce a UI scripting language?
14:54:42  <Wolf01> If the UI would be designed in xaml or similar it would be better
14:54:45  * andythenorth sees a bunch of FS that is people wanting quite custom, specific ‘click this button’ crap
14:54:54  <andythenorth> ‘can haz magic button'
14:54:58  <andythenorth> whereas
14:55:05  * andythenorth has more buttons than needed already
14:55:11  <andythenorth> I only just learnt what ‘force upgrade’ does
14:55:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that one is my fault :p
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14:59:09  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, the next monument is going to be tricky, i need 10000 squares of office buildings (not commercial), and i only have short of 4000
14:59:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and 0 demand for anything
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15:00:50  *** Adrian is now known as Guest2300
15:01:02  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: still looking for this? o_O
15:01:31  <Guest2300> Hello. I downloaded World Airliners Set 0.1 from within the game. When using the NewGRF, airports are disabled in the game. Any idea why that might be?
15:02:01  <andythenorth> this is a ‘no’, right?  Want a new name, get a new ID
15:02:06  * andythenorth is pretty certain, but eh
15:03:12  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it has some use cases
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15:06:11  <andythenorth> orders are supposed to be deterministic?
15:06:16  <andythenorth> or do I misunderstand?
15:06:23  <andythenorth>
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15:08:56  <Alberth> power is pretty determinstic
15:09:32  <andythenorth> totally randomisable
15:09:33  <Alberth> it's ok to use conditions, if the conditions are constants
15:09:44  <andythenorth> nearly anything on a newgrf cb is not a constant
15:09:57  <Alberth> oh, ok
15:10:15  <Alberth> then yep, won't fly
15:10:45  <Alberth> although I never understood why you want to have orders depending on properties of that train
15:11:24  <Alberth> just adding useless complexity
15:14:15  <_dp_> would be actually quite handy to fix mistakes with shared orders
15:14:29  <_dp_> split them with orders rather than having hunt them all one-by-one
15:14:47  <andythenorth> my FS mission here is partially to try and separate wood from trees
15:14:54  <andythenorth> there are so many similar-ish requests
15:15:01  <andythenorth> some might have a common grain of truth, maybe
15:15:15  <andythenorth> I’ve killed nearly 100 issues I think
15:15:44  <Alberth> _dp_: open list of trains on same shared order, pick one, unshare, fix, pick other and share new, done
15:16:36  <Alberth> and different stats only works if you really have different engines
15:16:44  <_dp_> Alberth, ... repeat 50 times, done :p
15:17:16  <Alberth> no, you can just share the new with all of them
15:18:01  <_dp_> Alberth, what if I want to share new with only half of them?
15:18:20  <andythenorth> send 50% of them to depot
15:18:23  <andythenorth> scrap them
15:18:26  <andythenorth> build new trains
15:18:27  <Alberth> how do you split a set of trains that are identical?
15:18:36  <_dp_> usually happens when I accidently shared wrong orders with onther group already
15:18:45  * andythenorth does that sometimes
15:18:50  <andythenorth> but then we have autosave eh?
15:19:20  <Alberth> the right solution is to give them a new order, not keep sharing some meta-order
15:19:21  <_dp_> It's not much of a problem if they are identical))
15:19:39  <_dp_> But if it's say coal trains with farm trains orders...
15:20:28  <_dp_> andythenorth, yeah, that's what I do sometimes but usually just ignore them
15:20:40  <Alberth> the point is, you don't always have stats that are different
15:21:51  <_dp_> well, mb, I just though of a problem that might help to solve sometimes
15:21:58  <Alberth> and you still have the big meta order you cannot unshare between the groups
15:23:00  <_dp_> Alberth, can send wrong ones into depot at least
15:24:14  <andythenorth> shows in part the weakness of groups
15:24:22  <andythenorth> again
15:24:36  <andythenorth> group can be made from shared order, but no way to assign shared order to group
15:26:14  <frosch123> from today's pov you would likely make groups work on top of shared orders
15:26:28  <frosch123> you would display shared orders as "routes" and then group those
15:26:50  <andythenorth> sounds plausible
15:27:20  <frosch123> may be worth looking up the original groups topic
15:27:27  <frosch123> to check what they were initially intended for :p
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15:29:47  <frosch123> <- somewhere before that post
15:30:08  <andythenorth> it was for replacing
15:30:26  <andythenorth> related to mass-replacement of track
15:30:39  <andythenorth> :P
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15:32:56  <frosch123>
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15:33:39  <andythenorth> such routes :P
15:34:11  <frosch123> i guess it's all bjarni's fault :p
15:34:21  <andythenorth> you should write a blame bot
15:34:26  <andythenorth> they’re quite useful
15:34:33  <andythenorth> DorpsGek: blame frosch123
15:34:45  <andythenorth> see, DorpsGek doesn’t spread blame
15:34:53  <frosch123> @blame
15:35:21  <andythenorth> @blame frosch123
15:35:35  <andythenorth> meh
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15:41:29  <andythenorth> 55 comments on how to close windows? :D
15:41:30  <andythenorth> :o
15:42:59  <frosch123> @blame andy
15:42:59  <DorpsGek> frosch123: blames andy
15:43:17  <andythenorth> yup
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15:48:54  <andythenorth> 32 railtypes?
15:48:57  <andythenorth>
15:50:10  <frosch123> combinatorial bs
15:50:58  *** Guest2300 has quit IRC
15:51:29  <andythenorth> you closing it, or me?
15:51:32  <andythenorth> :P
15:51:42  * andythenorth is practicing saying ‘no’ in different ways
15:51:47  <frosch123> i haven't visited forums in a week
15:51:55  <frosch123> now i have > 30 unread flyspray mails :p
15:52:30  <milek7> i think 240 companies is more useful :>
15:52:36  <andythenorth> soooooory :P
15:52:56  <andythenorth> I got more blunt about closing tasks, instead of ‘request closure'
15:53:17  <frosch123> well, i have bookmarks to all the tasks i am interested in
15:53:24  *** quiznilo has joined #openttd
15:53:27  <frosch123> so the status of a task never mattered
15:54:07  <frosch123> bookmarks also work on forums and reddit and whateer
15:55:02  <andythenorth> it’s become a meta-game, can I get below 700 tasks?
15:55:09  *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
15:55:12  <andythenorth> a lot of them are either legit, or way out my ability to judge
15:55:18  <andythenorth> like all the crash reports :P
15:55:46  <LordAro> there are quite a lot of crash reports where there's just not enough information to draw any meaningful conclusion from
15:56:24  <frosch123> well, one conclusion is to replace icu with harfbuzz
15:56:52  <andythenorth> if we’re not doing six-sigma statistics to cluster bug reports
15:57:00  <andythenorth> then all the ones that lack info should be shut
15:57:04  <andythenorth> they’re just noise
15:59:31  <frosch123> maybe we can excite LordAro to read up on harfbuzz :)
15:59:44  <andythenorth> go on then LordAro
15:59:47  <LordAro> D:
15:59:47  <andythenorth> be a hero
15:59:50  <andythenorth> you can do it:)
15:59:52  <andythenorth> then SDL 2
15:59:55  <andythenorth> proper stuff
16:00:15  * andythenorth deletes a “Toll Plazas” feature request
16:00:17  <andythenorth> not happening
16:00:27  <LordAro> Alberth can do SDL2
16:00:31  <LordAro> :p
16:01:00  <LordAro> what's wrong with ICU, anyway?
16:01:14  <frosch123> it crashes a lot on newer windows with newer standard fonts
16:01:20  <frosch123> like "times new roman"
16:01:34  <LordAro> ah
16:01:34  <frosch123> it's also deprecated//unsupported for n years
16:02:04  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: who would ever use that font?
16:02:10  <andythenorth> e.g.
16:02:22  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it was the example on the wiki :p
16:02:41  <frosch123> which means that it worked for years, and then with either a windows upgrade or a compile farm upgrade it broke
16:02:53  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and who reads the wiki?
16:03:13  <frosch123> isn't it  the most linked page here?
16:03:14  <LordAro> frosch123: look through my patch queue(s) and we'll talk :p
16:03:59  <andythenorth> one more closure and I hit 750 left :P
16:04:03  <andythenorth> nobody add any more :P
16:04:40  <LordAro> andythenorth: what, ever? :p
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16:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: well, since there's no development there can't be new bugs, and new feature requests will be deleted by andy anyway, so...
16:06:02  <LordAro> :D
16:08:00  <andythenorth> if feature requests are what drives development, we have enough :P
16:08:09  <andythenorth> is that how it works? o_O
16:10:19  <Alberth> most FS requests don't count as such, since they are non-feasible, or too edge-case
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16:13:49  <andythenorth> peter1138 has a patch for that
16:13:50  <andythenorth>
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16:16:33  <andythenorth> yay 750
16:17:34  <andythenorth> Can we remove inflation entirely?
16:17:44  <andythenorth> then we can close this as 100% implemented
16:18:23  <frosch123> i came to the conclusion that it's not even worth the effort to discuss money stuff
16:18:50  <andythenorth> I would be prepared to answer all player whining if we just delete inflation
16:19:36  <Wolf01> Bah, I'm bored
16:19:51  <frosch123> Wolf01: read up on halfbuzz :p
16:20:36  <andythenorth> or delete inflation
16:20:46  <andythenorth> it could be the actual April Fool’s
16:20:54  <andythenorth> “No we really have deleted it"
16:23:05  <Wolf01> "changed fonts to comic sans"
16:23:44  <frosch123> ottd is an old game, dom casual would fit better
16:28:01  <andythenorth> frosch123: this never shipped? o_O
16:28:34  <frosch123> nope
16:31:51  <andythenorth> this is fricking stupid
16:31:55  <LordAro> oh, that's why vim's syntax highlighting is freaking out
16:31:59  <LordAro> it thinks this file is cobol
16:32:03  <andythenorth> why change the palette on a newgrf?  All they do is break
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16:33:02  * andythenorth closed it
16:35:55  <Alberth> saving makes sense, to solve the problem for older newgrfs
16:36:13  <Alberth> but that could be done together with saving parameter settings
16:36:34  <andythenorth> “don’t use broken newgrfs” imho
16:36:59  <frosch123> we may have outlived the problem :p
16:38:15  <Alberth> :)
16:38:45  <frosch123> oh, now it's 43 unread mails
16:38:49  <frosch123> maybe i should get a new account
16:40:26  <andythenorth> set up a rule
16:40:29  <andythenorth> FS -> trash
16:40:38  * andythenorth stopped reading email 5 years ago
16:41:18  <andythenorth> oops, bored again
16:41:25  <andythenorth> got to 742 :P
16:41:33  <andythenorth> verified a non-bug even
16:41:57  <andythenorth> I love this meta one :)
16:43:42  <LordAro> frosch123: well, i've got as far as getting the configure script to find harfbuzz :p
16:43:53  <frosch123> \o/
16:44:00  <LordAro> (why do we reimplement most of autoconf, anyway)
16:44:24  <LordAro> frosch123: now my patches :p
16:44:49  <frosch123> i only now about the search thing
16:45:00  <frosch123> no idea what your plural refers to
16:45:01  <LordAro> (incidentally, harfbuzz has basically 0 documentation)
16:45:25  <LordAro> (sort thing) (various, mostly warning fixes)
16:45:45  <LordAro> (0001 probably doesn't matter)
16:46:20  <Wolf01> <LordAro> (incidentally, harfbuzz has basically 0 documentation) <- yeah I noticed that even "integrating harfbuzz on a project" is not helpful
16:48:03  <LordAro> (and 0007 & 0008 are basically "i'm bored")
16:53:08  <andythenorth> is this a useful optimisation?
16:54:37  <frosch123> it doesn't have a diff
16:55:20  <_dp_> speed optimizations are generally useless without a profiler report
16:55:46  <LordAro> both RB & SZ seem rather sceptical about it
17:02:36  <andythenorth> closed
17:03:17  <andythenorth> useful?
17:04:13  <Wolf01> Maybe
17:05:19  <_dp_> yeah, fps is nice to know sometimes
17:05:59  <frosch123> s/fps/ping/
17:06:00  <Alberth> it's fixed
17:06:59  <frosch123> ottd is a cinematic game, it has fps locked to 30
17:07:13  <LordAro> hmm
17:07:27  <LordAro> doesn't seem like there's a good replacement for the ICU sort/collation stuff
17:07:28  <_dp_> it definitely doesn't do all 30 sometimes :p
17:07:30  <Wolf01> But ticks per second change a lot
17:07:53  <LordAro> "time taken to process frame" could be useful
17:08:59  <LordAro> unless i could do something with std::locale
17:12:25  <frosch123> "strcoll"
17:12:37  <_dp_> Wolf01, do they? it depends on hardware but otherwise seem pretty stable
17:12:45  <LordAro> frosch123: ew, C functions :p
17:12:50  <frosch123> my experiences with std::locale are terrible
17:12:53  <LordAro> same
17:13:15  <LordAro> not seeing a way to do it case insensitively (as per strnatcmp) with either anyway
17:13:20  <frosch123> at least for gcc 4.5 and 4.8 they consistently perform worse than the equivalent c functions
17:13:29  <andythenorth> I thought this was unsolvable? o_O
17:13:30  <andythenorth>
17:13:45  <andythenorth> due to variation in semantics of subtype across vehicles
17:14:18  <andythenorth> no vocabulary = no way to compare semantics
17:14:24  <andythenorth> way too much complexity to solve
17:14:28  <LordAro> well, i guess passing locale to to_lower could solve that
17:16:06  <frosch123> LordAro: anyway, rendering and sorting are independent icu libraries
17:16:18  <LordAro> frosch123: tbf, i can't imagine the string sorting is a performance-critical bit of the program
17:16:20  <frosch123> i think the sorting is still supported
17:16:25  <LordAro> true
17:17:29  <LordAro> googling "icu support" isn't all that helpful
17:18:14  <frosch123> there is a release from april 2017
17:19:13  <frosch123> it learned about unicode emoji
17:19:31  <LordAro> aye, i've found the mailing list
17:19:40  <LordAro> what's your source on the layout stuff being unsupported though?
17:19:53  <frosch123> the offical docs
17:20:16  <frosch123> <- even removed meanwhile
17:20:25  <LordAro> huh
17:20:27  <LordAro> fair
17:23:04  <frosch123> debian stable has icu 57
17:23:12  <frosch123> so i guess that's why i haven't noticed
17:23:17  <LordAro> haha
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17:31:53  <andythenorth> did someone implement consist templates? o_O
17:32:15  <frosch123> yes
17:32:36  <LordAro> istr a video
17:32:51  <frosch123> i think the current one is by juanjo
17:34:38  <frosch123> <- nah, it's ffpp
17:37:01  <andythenorth> oh yeah
17:37:11  <andythenorth> the UI freaked me out with it’s ugliness
17:37:15  <andythenorth> so I didn’t try the patch
17:39:05  * andythenorth wonders if eventually one of the patchpacks will win
17:39:12  <andythenorth> and supplant OpenTTD
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17:51:12  <andythenorth> eh 723 tickets :P
17:51:20  <LordAro> getting closer :)
17:51:26  <LordAro> frosch123: so them patches ;)
17:53:22  <andythenorth> seems I closed 92 or so :P
17:53:47  <andythenorth> “Not a current goal for OpenTTD” is my favourite rationale
17:53:51  <andythenorth> totally 100% true :P
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17:58:08  <_dp_> does it even have a goal?
17:59:32  <andythenorth> somewhere in the wiki ;)
17:59:49  <andythenorth>
17:59:54  <LordAro> "Roadmap 1.8"
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18:04:29  <andythenorth> did we actually move to git yet? o_O
18:05:35  <LordAro> sure
18:06:40  <andythenorth> no pull requests there :D
18:06:51  <LordAro> your work is clearly done then
18:07:05  <Zuu> It says that you should send pull requests to
18:08:15  <andythenorth> I can delete them there :)
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18:19:29  <andythenorth> these goals are actually really good
18:19:52  * andythenorth can reject more FS with them :)
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18:31:15  <LordAro> (gdb) p fonts[size].size()
18:31:15  <LordAro>  = 0
18:31:15  <LordAro> (gdb) p fonts[size].begin() == fonts[size].end()
18:31:15  <LordAro>  = false
18:31:19  <LordAro> this is an issue
18:38:09  <LordAro> aha
18:38:10  <LordAro> initialisation order
18:38:47  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27893 /trunk/src (60 files in 12 dirs) (2017-08-13 20:38:42 +0200 )
18:38:48  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Use fallthrough attribute. (LordAro)
18:38:54  <LordAro> :)
18:40:20  <frosch123> about the multibyte-constants: i am thinking about a macro "#define DWORD_STR(a,b,c,d) (a | b<<8 | c<<16 | d<<24)"
18:40:22  <frosch123> not sure about the name
18:40:33  <LordAro> yeah, maybe something like that
18:40:34  <frosch123> but the manual conversion to hex is meh
18:40:53  <LordAro> if we had C++14 we could do "NUMB"_custom_suffix
18:40:54  <LordAro> :p
18:40:56  <frosch123> also i wonder whether railtypes work on big endian :p
18:41:05  <LordAro> indeed :)
18:41:58  <frosch123> oh, i made some indentation changes in some places and removed your TODO
18:42:07  <frosch123> depend.cpp was left as it
18:42:14  <frosch123> stdafx.h could not be easily added
18:42:29  * LordAro checks
18:42:33  <LordAro> oh, could it not?
18:42:55  <frosch123> depend.cpp seems to include a partial copy of stuff
18:43:12  <frosch123> i also don't know what depend may use, and what is still being generated
18:55:05  <V453000> yo huminz
18:55:17  <V453000> I got a shitload of mails about closed FS things from andythenorth :D
18:56:39  <Zuu> V453000: me too.
18:57:10  <Zuu> That is why the link to the irc logs on the wiki is now updated. :-)
18:57:19  <V453000> basterd
18:57:47  <frosch123> V453000: i have 53
18:57:50  <frosch123> can you top that?
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19:00:51  <V453000> n
19:03:38  <andythenorth> why would anyone read email, ever :P
19:04:16  <andythenorth> I am tempted to close some of the 55 or so that george has open
19:04:23  <andythenorth> some are pretty legit
19:04:27  <andythenorth>
19:04:36  <andythenorth> don’t want to upset george though :P
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20:09:33  <andythenorth> ach
20:09:41  <andythenorth> I won my ebay game
20:09:46  <andythenorth> now I have to find a new ebay game
20:10:39  <LordAro> oh no
20:12:00  <frosch123> do you sell fs tasks on ebay?
20:15:04  <andythenorth> :P
20:15:17  <andythenorth> I seek out relatively rare HO trains at a fair price :P
20:15:29  <andythenorth> it can take months to find the right one
20:15:39  <andythenorth> searching is more fun than winning
20:21:53  <frosch123> andythenorth: where is the vertical line patch?
20:22:12  <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^
20:26:45  <andythenorth> I’ve got a patch file, but I think Wolf has a newer/better version :P
20:28:35  <andythenorth> frosch123:
20:28:55  <andythenorth> there was some critique of it
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20:34:00  <V453000> I guess HO is pretty damn large eh
20:34:39  <V453000> just found a random engine for 0 :D
20:35:38  <andythenorth> how about?
20:35:41  <V453000> 5000 eurs for a train?
20:35:55  <V453000> ok only 2k pounds for that one :D
20:36:12  * andythenorth not buyng 
20:36:12  <V453000> what in the shit :D
20:36:18  <andythenorth> I have 2k pounds of trains
20:36:27  <andythenorth> but way more than 2 engines :P
20:37:17  <V453000> I suddenly feel less bad about buying a 00 computer :)
20:37:42  <V453000> also bought daughter her first lego duplo train with rails
20:37:44  <V453000> big milestone
20:37:52  <andythenorth> yay
20:38:30  <V453000> for now just this
20:38:34  <V453000> she likes it
20:38:41  <V453000> I keep her for now
20:39:15  <V453000> ok so why is that HO stuff so expensive? :D
20:39:20  <V453000> or at least the thousand pound models
20:39:54  <V453000> nvm forget I asked
20:40:15  <andythenorth> usually it’s hand-built
20:40:19  <andythenorth> time = money etc :P
20:40:42  <andythenorth> DuploError: NoSpottyDog
20:40:52  <V453000> haha
20:40:54  <V453000> iz goat though
20:41:20  <V453000> I get that it's hand built but being worth more than a car is kind of ... :D
20:41:30  <V453000> wife would be thrilled I'm sure
20:42:27  <andythenorth> dog{"color":1}
20:42:29  <V453000> ok enough internet for today apparently
20:42:38  <andythenorth> such bed
20:42:43  <V453000> hm not sure if we have that one yet
20:42:46  <V453000> pretty sure we don't
20:42:48  <andythenorth>{}
20:42:54  <andythenorth> dog arrives in tractor
20:43:12  <V453000> christmas is soon I guess
20:43:54  <V453000> nyway
20:43:55  <V453000> gnight
20:44:04  <andythenorth> bye
20:44:53  <andythenorth> eh, from ‘wanted contributions’ list :|
20:56:21  <__ln___> greetings from the austro-hungarian empire
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20:58:07  <frosch123> sarajevo?
20:58:35  <andythenorth> glad I found this :)
20:58:44  <__ln___> nah, budapest
20:58:50  <andythenorth> was about to add mixed-cargo articulated stuff to IH
20:58:59  <andythenorth> buda or pest?
21:00:51  <__ln___> pest
21:08:14  * andythenorth went to the hot baths once
21:08:33  <andythenorth> also bed
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21:16:30  <Wolf01> __ln___: do you plan to travel near Venice someday?
21:21:51  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
21:21:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i almost went to venice once, but then didn't
21:22:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that was like 20 years ago, though
21:22:54  <Eddi|zuHause> we were in istria, and there was a daytrip to venice available, by catamaran
21:23:36  <Wolf01> There is a lot to see in the mainland too, depends on what is your interest
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21:26:05  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you just need to say that you're throwing an openttd party... :p
21:27:26  <Wolf01> Too bad I don't have enough space at home
21:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> > nmlc -v
21:29:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ImportError: No module named 'ply'
21:29:53  <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, i haven't used this in forever
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22:41:44  <Shoshonite> Are the offsets in NewGRF's graphic templates in pixels or some  other quasi-magical unit?
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23:02:56  <Eddi|zuHause> pixels
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23:23:51  * NGC3982 is going to play ttd for the first time in years.
23:24:39  <Eddi|zuHause> what blasphemy! nobody here actually PLAYS the game.
23:24:46  <NGC3982> :-p
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23:25:08  <NGC3982> is firs and ukrs2 still the better grfs?
23:25:22  <Wolf01> We allow you to do it, but only for a brief time and just to test some grf combinations
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