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I cant reach it 05:19:52 <Thanark_> Roger 05:20:28 <Thanark_> Any reason to have more than one train depot at a coal mine? Only seems to have enough to keep up with one train worth of coal anyways. 05:44:15 *** debdog has quit IRC 05:46:01 *** orudge` has quit IRC 05:46:35 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 05:46:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 05:47:01 *** debdog has joined #openttd 05:47:40 <Flygon> Thanark: Autoreplace. 06:05:16 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 06:05:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 06:05:20 <Alberth> moin 06:06:38 *** orudge` has quit IRC 06:06:44 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 06:06:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 06:09:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:10:19 <Alberth> o/ 06:12:47 <andythenorth> hi 06:18:59 <Alberth> a sunny sunday, today 06:21:59 <andythenorth> same here 06:24:57 <andythenorth> balloons 06:28:36 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 06:30:12 * andythenorth wonders why trains won’t flip in depot with ctrl-click 06:30:57 <Alberth> I never understood this flipping thing 06:31:33 <Alberth> apparently, it's relevant how the trains drives? 06:33:04 <Alberth> I wondered if you could make a networking game script 06:33:35 <andythenorth> flipping is just eye-candy :) 06:33:43 <andythenorth> if it wasn’t possible I wouldn’t bother :) 06:33:50 <Alberth> where you get assignments to bring more cargo to a few places, so you get the problem of expanding network capacity and platforms 06:33:54 <andythenorth> networking game script? 06:34:07 <andythenorth> total connected nodes or such? 06:34:12 <andythenorth> connected destinations? 06:34:17 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:34:33 <Alberth> I really like the problems of making a fluently running network 06:35:13 <andythenorth> +1 06:35:19 <andythenorth> it’s the main core of the game 06:36:33 <peter1138> point to point links! 06:37:03 <Alberth> script switches infrastructure maintenance on 06:37:37 <andythenorth> peter1138: so the best way 06:38:01 * andythenorth used to do 6 track point-point in original TTD 06:38:04 <Alberth> although apparently it's a complicated concept, baldy's boss doesn't seem to understand it 06:38:14 <andythenorth> no comment 06:38:20 <Alberth> 6 track? 06:38:38 <andythenorth> 6 station platforms at ore mine -> 6 station platforms at steel mill 06:38:46 <Alberth> :O 06:38:46 <andythenorth> no crossings, no signals, no junctions 06:38:56 <andythenorth> 6 was the maximum iirc 06:39:04 <Alberth> max station size 06:39:24 <andythenorth> for some reason I used to build all 6 at once 06:39:34 <andythenorth> instead of getting one started then adding more 06:39:46 <andythenorth> then the iron mine would close before I got finished :P 06:39:48 <Alberth> it's simpler :) 06:39:55 <Alberth> haha :) 06:40:11 <andythenorth> anyway, point-to-point ftw 06:40:19 <andythenorth> but usually I do this :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7347/Wafflebury%20Transport,%2001-05-2007.png 06:40:21 <Alberth> add a "tease player" mode :p 06:41:14 <Alberth> that takes a while to decode :) 06:41:27 <Alberth> organically built tracks are the best though 06:41:56 <andythenorth> I need HAUL road mixed in 06:42:10 <andythenorth> just for extra tile contention 06:42:12 <Alberth> hmm, would be nice if we could enforce that playing style in the script 06:42:33 <Alberth> I don't use RVs enough 06:42:54 <Alberth> although one game at 64x64 with firs extreme... 06:42:57 <andythenorth> nah we don’t need to enforce a playing style :) 06:43:01 <andythenorth> just….encourage it 06:43:09 <Alberth> not enough space for trains 06:43:13 <andythenorth> so how do we reward connecting nodes? 06:43:40 <andythenorth> Busy Bee, but generate goals that add edges to already-connected nodes? 06:44:00 <Alberth> score on using less rail tiles 06:44:18 <Alberth> or road tiles 06:44:19 <andythenorth> it’s a common thing in Railroad Tycoon goals to have limited track tile counts 06:44:29 <andythenorth> either total amount, or amount available to build per year 06:44:49 <Alberth> haha, you place one, the script removes it again :p 06:45:31 <Alberth> just counting number of rail tiles and road tiles would be enough, I think 06:45:44 <Alberth> with a rough computation of minimum required or so 06:47:11 <Alberth> you can indeed extend BB to take already present tracks into account 06:48:06 <Alberth> assume player will use it, so don't count that distance (or count it less) 06:49:00 <Alberth> but BB generates targets all over the place, so you never get that concentration needed for problems in expanding stations 06:49:46 <Alberth> laying more track is quite easy, although with a less score if you take number of rail tiles into account 06:50:25 <Alberth> oh, we should also count station tiles! 06:50:47 <Alberth> pushing for the optimal use of resources 06:51:49 *** dark_pingus has joined #openttd 06:56:33 *** adf88 has joined #openttd 06:59:24 <Alberth> maybe just punishing station tiles is enough? 06:59:39 <Alberth> that already breaks your point-to-point connections 07:00:59 <andythenorth> might work 07:01:26 <andythenorth> Station Limits 07:01:40 <andythenorth> there’s probably a pun somewhere :P 07:06:23 <Alberth> :D 07:06:39 * andythenorth fixed Iron Horse ctrl-click flipping 07:06:45 <andythenorth> but…most sprites are symmetrical :D 07:06:56 <Alberth> more eye-candy :) 07:07:18 <Alberth> it's a feature, doesn't need to be a useful feature :p 07:09:31 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 07:11:33 <adf88> doesn't "feature" mean "useful" ? :p 07:11:36 <adf88> hi 07:12:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 07:13:00 <peter1138> no 07:13:24 <peter1138> crashing when trying to take a screenshot is a feature 07:14:24 <adf88> that's a "hidden feature" :) 07:18:16 <Eddi|zuHause> a feature is a feature is a feature 07:19:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 07:20:21 <adf88> english is not very well in recursions, maybe try another language :p 07:33:07 * andythenorth finds more FS to close 07:33:12 <andythenorth> spam spam spam spam 07:33:19 <andythenorth> oh I broke it 07:42:53 <peter1138> brutal 07:43:08 <andythenorth> at least there’ll be no more FS spam 07:43:21 <peter1138> wiki and www was already broken 07:43:26 * andythenorth wonders what would be lost if FS just….died 07:43:28 <peter1138> probably from all that FS spam yesterday 07:44:47 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:45:13 <Wolf01> o/ 07:45:49 <Alberth> o/ 07:46:21 <andythenorth> we could probably just use github for pissing people off by saying ‘no’ to tickets 07:46:28 <andythenorth> or accepting crash logs that nobody looks at :) 07:46:35 <andythenorth> no need to run our own service for that 07:47:00 <andythenorth> wow, there’s a huge JJ fork https://github.com/J0anJosep/OpenTTD/commits/JJ-last 07:47:07 <andythenorth> what does that do then? o_O 07:47:18 <peter1138> too much 07:47:29 <peter1138> i was looking over it to steal bits 07:47:40 <peter1138> but there's massive changes early on 07:47:41 <andythenorth> https://github.com/J0anJosep/OpenTTD/projects/5 07:48:07 <andythenorth> “ A special one-tile dock can be built on a flat water tile" 07:48:32 <andythenorth> also https://github.com/J0anJosep/OpenTTD/projects/6 07:48:44 <peter1138> i need to figure out how to set up a dev environment under windows again 07:48:54 <peter1138> i suspect it'll probably involve "set up a debian vm" 07:49:14 <andythenorth> Docker! 07:49:18 <andythenorth> or something :P 07:49:38 <andythenorth> I should clone his repo 07:49:49 <peter1138> i probably did 07:49:56 <peter1138> there are some others 07:50:25 * andythenorth does 07:51:43 <andythenorth> too many openttd’s running :P 07:51:48 <andythenorth> such patches and forks 07:51:56 <andythenorth> also too many apostrophes 07:51:58 <Thanark_> What do I do about a crashed train? 07:52:10 <andythenorth> wait 07:52:46 * andythenorth waits for a compile 07:52:49 * andythenorth needs faster computer 07:55:38 <Thanark_> Now that I crashed 4 of my trains I wish I remembered what jobs they were on 07:55:58 <peter1138> you can still see that while they are crashed 07:56:26 <andythenorth> ach, jj-last won’t build for me :| 07:56:52 <Alberth> just click the crashed trains, or even clone them 07:57:07 <peter1138> i never tested building it 07:57:30 <andythenorth> _probably_ OS X crap 07:57:31 <Thanark_> Ah wish I knew that before they disspeared. :| 07:57:33 * andythenorth checking 07:57:42 <Thanark_> Good to know for next time 07:57:44 <andythenorth> Thanark_: reload an autosave 07:57:55 <andythenorth> oh yeah, wiki is gone 07:58:01 <andythenorth> so OS X compile instructions are gone :) 07:58:04 <peter1138> if you're reloading autosaves, then reload before the crash ;p 08:00:07 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> oh yeah, wiki is gone <- entire openttd.org is gone 08:00:16 <andythenorth> yup 08:01:21 <Wolf01> Need to wake up that T***B**** guy? 08:01:44 <Thanark_> Wished saved games saved the windows I had pinned. 08:02:16 <andythenorth> errors are a lot of this https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plisdmpum/ghz4by/raw 08:02:21 <andythenorth> repeating 08:04:04 <andythenorth> the master branch builds in that fork, it looks like clean openttd master 08:04:11 <andythenorth> the jj-last branch is the one that fails 08:04:16 <andythenorth> JJ-last * 08:08:45 <LordAro> Wolf01: i'd suggest actually waking TrueBrain up might be more productive :p 08:09:12 <Wolf01> +1 08:09:43 <LordAro> nothing responding on port 80, load balancer's probably fallen over 08:09:51 <LordAro> at a guess 08:11:11 <Wolf01> Put it on the table again, maybe some andy's cat tripped on it 08:11:17 <LordAro> also, lol, paste.openttdcoop.org is completely broken for me - it's got the revoked startcom cert which chrome refuses to let me through, and paste.oc.o redirects to https 08:12:52 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:13:12 *** Alberth has left #openttd 08:16:47 <Wolf01> Shit, what am I downloading... the entire github? 08:17:03 <Flygon> Well. 08:17:12 <Flygon> If you want to speedtest your net connection thoroughly?... 08:17:34 <Flygon> It's either that or a popular Game of Thrones torrent. Not that I endorse piracy. I don't. :V 08:17:49 <Flygon> But, just sayin', it's a good way to test a gigabit connection. :VVVV 08:18:00 <Wolf01> Usually we download a linux iso to test the bandwidth 08:19:18 <Wolf01> The problem is that netflix thing which uses up my bandwidth actually :P 08:19:57 *** gpsoft has joined #openttd 08:23:04 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:23:21 *** debdog has quit IRC 08:25:11 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 08:28:03 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:28:20 *** debdog has joined #openttd 08:28:48 *** Gja has joined #openttd 08:31:13 <andythenorth> herp 08:31:25 <andythenorth> articulated vehicles with different cargos per unit, slightly auto-refittable :P 08:31:28 <andythenorth> it worked before 08:31:34 * andythenorth had better read the old code :P 08:32:34 <TrueBrain> well, this is odd .. everything is operational, but the internal network is no longer responding .. that is a new one .. 08:33:37 <Shoshonite> When compiling a newGRF it keeps telling me "8bpp images does not have a palette" suggestions. 08:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause> when saving the image, make sure you checked "keep unused colours" 08:35:03 <Shoshonite> I wouldnt have wasted the good wine on it if I had know it didnt have a palette. 08:35:10 <andythenorth> :P 08:35:13 <Shoshonite> ok tkx 08:35:44 <TrueBrain> lets reboot this whole machine ... wtf really ... 08:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: being sysadmin sounds like "fun" :p 08:37:05 <TrueBrain> especially as that fixed the issue 08:37:18 <TrueBrain> everything was as it should 08:37:23 <TrueBrain> interface was reporting the IPs 08:37:25 <TrueBrain> routes were in place 08:37:32 *** DorpsGek has joined #openttd 08:37:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DorpsGek 08:37:33 <TrueBrain> but .. it did not find the interface to route packets on 08:38:04 <TrueBrain> I am just really happy the whole infrastructure is fractured .. only the main gateway lost its way :P So an easy reboot 08:38:16 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you can use the wiki again!!! :P 08:40:33 <andythenorth> awesome :) 08:40:37 <andythenorth> can you leave FS offline? o_O 08:40:40 <andythenorth> might be better 08:41:12 <TrueBrain> I was looking for a forum thread yelling it was offline, but it isnt there! :D 08:41:27 <TrueBrain> that made me look into another thread .. that made me lookup stats about the traffic etc 08:41:34 <andythenorth> do we get traffic? 08:41:50 <TrueBrain> after 2 years of a "poor" summar, we are back on the traffc as it was in 2014 08:42:26 *** debdog has quit IRC 08:42:35 <TrueBrain> we are very steady in the amount of visitors per month 08:42:36 <andythenorth> is that up or down? o_O 08:42:41 <andythenorth> are we dying less or moar? 08:42:55 <TrueBrain> from a statistical perspective, we are neither 08:42:57 <Flygon> Wolf01: I forgot you can Linux ISO. 08:43:03 <TrueBrain> 500k unique visitors a month 08:43:11 <andythenorth> unique? :o 08:43:14 <andythenorth> how many are bots? 08:43:23 <TrueBrain> as far as I can look back .. which is 6 years .. that is give or take the number 08:43:29 <andythenorth> 500k is, relatively, a shitload 08:43:35 <TrueBrain> (goes up to 800k sometimes, sometimes 300k) 08:43:52 <TrueBrain> we push 1TB of data every week of binaries 08:44:08 <TrueBrain> and that is data we register (so ignoring Linux distros, basically) 08:44:08 <Shoshonite> thats a lot of 0 and 1 08:44:09 <Wolf01> Not bad 08:44:41 <TrueBrain> @calc 1000000 / 24 / 60 / 60 08:44:41 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 11.5740740741 08:44:48 <TrueBrain> 11 requests per second ON AVERAGE over a FULL DAY 08:45:28 <andythenorth> loads 08:45:38 <andythenorth> probably dying same then 08:46:12 <TrueBrain> it always strikes me .. as I do agree with your opinion, it feels like OpenTTD is slowly dying ever since .. well .. 2010 or something .. (which is fine in my opinion) 08:46:18 <TrueBrain> but the traffic tells a completely different story 08:46:30 <TrueBrain> so I guess: the verbal people see less activity 08:46:37 <TrueBrain> the users themself enjoy the game every day 08:46:41 <TrueBrain> not more, not less :) 08:46:57 <andythenorth> I look at downloads of newgrfs in bananaramas 08:47:02 <andythenorth> always seems pretty constant 08:47:17 <TrueBrain> yup 08:47:24 <TrueBrain> https://stats.openttd.org/ 08:47:28 <TrueBrain> if you are interested in HTTP hits 08:47:29 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> errors are a lot <- even syntax errors... did he even try to compile before pushing? 08:47:36 <andythenorth> such stats :) 08:47:39 <andythenorth> Wolf01: no idea :) 08:48:34 <TrueBrain> so I wonder how the stats do not match the feeling :D 08:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: fake news 08:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: that's pretty much summing up politics over the last decade or so 08:49:15 <Wolf01> BTW, I have a lot of / not overloaded for Money and uint16 08:49:20 <LordAro> TrueBrain: nice :) 08:49:51 <TrueBrain> @calc 750 / (180 + 750) 08:49:51 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.806451612903 08:49:58 <TrueBrain> on other relevant news, 80% of our users uses HTTPS 08:50:13 <andythenorth> “it is dying” = “there’s nothing new and shiny" 08:50:22 <andythenorth> two kinds of attitude to it 08:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you should disable http, then it's 100% :p 08:50:33 <andythenorth> “it is stable, I am playing" 08:50:43 <andythenorth> “it is not novelty, it is dying" 08:51:14 <TrueBrain> yeah .. I am serious poundering disabling HTTP 08:51:17 <TrueBrain> fr various of reasons 08:51:24 <TrueBrain> 6 months ago it was 50% btw 08:51:31 <Eddi|zuHause> do spammers use https yet? 08:51:56 <TrueBrain> but anyway, good morning all, and have a good day :D 08:52:13 <TrueBrain> poke me if anything is still not working on the internet service side :) 08:52:21 * LordAro waves 08:52:27 <Wolf01> o/ :) 08:54:04 <andythenorth> thanks TB 08:54:38 <andythenorth> quite a lot of combinations here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8544/IH-pax-TL.png 08:54:56 <andythenorth> 4/8 mail car, 8/8 mail car (might remove, redundant, just use 2x 4/8) 08:55:05 *** debdog has joined #openttd 08:55:09 <andythenorth> 8/8 pax coach, 10/8 articulated pax-mail coach 08:55:56 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 08:58:04 <LordAro> peter1138: if you're looking for a patch queue to add... ;) 09:02:50 <Wolf01> I got JJ's last to compile, too bad it crashes loading the title savegame 09:03:08 <LordAro> works for me 09:03:14 <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 09:03:25 *** adf88 has quit IRC 09:03:29 <Wolf01> Are you compiling master? 09:03:36 <LordAro> lol 09:03:40 <LordAro> JJ-last 09:04:13 <Wolf01> It asserts on TileAdd 09:06:51 <LordAro> no issues at all here 09:06:52 <LordAro> how odd 09:07:02 <Wolf01> Mmmh 09:07:11 <LordAro> heh, titlescreen looks really bare on 1440p 09:09:25 *** debdog has quit IRC 09:09:41 <Wolf01> It's strange that everybody got a different problem 09:10:39 *** debdog has joined #openttd 09:14:37 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 09:15:10 <Shoshonite> Do any of the wisened individuals here have any newGRF vehicle sprite alignment tricks they can share? 09:15:55 <Shoshonite> trying to get vehicles to run up a single lane of road in the center of the tile 09:17:41 <Wolf01> Don't 09:18:35 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 09:18:49 <Shoshonite> Hadn't considered that, seems practical 09:21:02 <andythenorth> you can shift the offsets 09:21:12 <andythenorth> I wouldn’t recommend it :P 09:22:14 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 09:24:10 <Shoshonite> It will probably make the model jerk around corners too. Blarg 09:25:55 *** Flygon has quit IRC 09:26:33 <_dp_> bot traffic grows so if overall stays the same it means less humans :p 09:26:52 <_dp_> from server activity I'd say there are about 10% less players than last year 09:30:35 <andythenorth> Shoshonite: it will snap horribly in corners ;) 09:30:42 <andythenorth> what are you trying to do? o_O 09:34:21 <Wolf01> What it should be done with vehicle movement instead :P 09:34:35 * andythenorth bbl 09:34:36 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:34:42 <_dp_> oh, it's 16% actually for mar-jul 09:45:59 <Wolf01> Where has been moved the titlescreen? 09:47:21 <Wolf01> Found, baseset 09:54:32 <Wolf01> Ok, I was able to load it with the new titlescreen (it still asserts after some time)... I can't see many differences beside joinable docks 10:04:20 <Wolf01> Oh, bigger depots needed to be enabled in the settings 10:04:35 <Wolf01> They seem nice 10:04:56 *** Coobies has quit IRC 10:16:18 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 10:23:40 *** Progman has quit IRC 10:27:38 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 10:38:34 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 10:43:54 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 10:44:26 *** adf88 has joined #openttd 11:01:12 <Wolf01> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etdKrRwvqhs shit... this IS a depot 11:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: yeah, but if only he spoke a language anyone could understand :p 11:13:55 <Wolf01> You are lucky :P 11:14:17 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:24:18 *** orudge` has quit IRC 11:24:31 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 11:24:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 11:27:00 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 11:31:52 <Wolf01> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/82590107439014057/4E9973E693C142C6CB3B41F4DAC55CD64BD731CA/ yes 11:55:32 <Flygon_> Wolf01: Man... 11:55:37 <Flygon_> I've had OTTD stations turn out like that. 11:55:42 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 11:55:57 <Flygon> Somehow had really rare edge case where 50-60 tile long freight trains made sense. 11:58:25 <Wolf01> https://www.thelocal.de/20150615/there-is-a-light-that-never-goes-out 12:01:11 *** adf88 has quit IRC 12:03:56 <Wolf01> https://goo.gl/maps/PS2uFPMheQz here it is 12:11:33 *** gpsoft has quit IRC 12:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i've seen this one before 12:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a weird edge case :p 12:20:26 <Eddi|zuHause> because the green arrow tells you "you can turn right on red light" 12:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and you can only turn right anyway 12:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the light doesn't need to turn green 12:20:59 <Wolf01> Here we would leave the yellow light blinking 12:21:21 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 12:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but some obscure bureaucratic rule tells that it's necessary to still have a light 12:21:46 <Wolf01> Yeah, just not red :P 12:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, those exit too, traffic lights that eternally blink yellow 12:22:05 <Wolf01> Yellow mean to pay attention when entering the intersection 12:22:15 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 12:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but blinking yellow is different, blinking yellow means "treat this light as off [signs apply instead]" 12:25:49 <Wolf01> No, blinking yellow mean to pay attention, they signal a possible danger 12:26:39 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 12:26:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 12:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> blinking yellow means "this traffic light is temporarily out of service" 12:27:32 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are different types of blinking yellow lights 12:28:03 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also "there is a traffic light ahead and it's red" type of blinking yellow light 12:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and "this is a construction site" type of blinking yellow light 12:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, still, the red light is technically correct. just a bit weird 12:30:44 <Eddi|zuHause> red light with green arrow is technically mostly the same as a stop sign 12:31:26 <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause: I mean, we handle that situation here by not having the light at all (Assuming I have the mental gymnastics in my head) - By only having lights for turning, not going forward. But it's actually really difficult to visualize the intersection in my head. :D 12:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: you can zoom out? 12:32:13 <Flygon> http://www.vosizneias.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/traficaust.jpg On the other hand... we enjoy brainfucking people with this beauty. :D 12:32:29 <Flygon> OH THERE'S A GOOGLE MAPS LINK 12:32:32 <Flygon> I must learn to read. 12:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: the main point is, because the rest of the crossing has traffic lights, this entrance to the crossing must also have one 12:32:46 <Flygon> ... 12:32:57 <Flygon> Okay, yeah. That situation is DEFINITELY handled differently here. :D 12:34:01 <Flygon> What a very German bureaucratic problem. :3 12:34:02 <Wolf01> Flygon: isn't that for tram/bus? 12:34:18 <Flygon> Wolf01: Yeah, but most Americans don't pick up on it. 12:36:51 <Flygon> It's really fun screwing with their minds - They don't tend to consider Trams having their own system! 12:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> you can see our tram signalling on above crossing, too 12:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> if you look at it from the other directions 12:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it uses white bars/dots instead of colours, though, so is easily distinguishable 12:39:14 <Alberth> discussing future NRT extensions? :) 12:39:31 <Wolf01> https://goo.gl/maps/VuK6WA1avJ22 we enjoy people with this one 12:39:54 <Wolf01> I bet you can't see what's strange at first glance 12:40:28 <Alberth> you won 12:40:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you must go straight on the roundabout, obviously. 12:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> can't turn right, must go a full round 12:41:12 <Wolf01> Yes 12:41:34 <Wolf01> I fucked up and did that in front of the local police :P 12:42:21 <Wolf01> Because I was following the GPS and it made me do a full round and go from where I came 12:42:43 <Wolf01> I turned back to the other roundabout and turned right there :P 12:44:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand the whole craze about roundabouts 12:44:44 <Wolf01> They could have used a better sign, like a forbid sign, instead of indication sign 12:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have a bit of time and a decent lawyer, you might want to challenge the sign 12:46:20 <Eddi|zuHause> because a sign forbidding a turn like that must have a valid reason to be there 12:47:21 <Wolf01> Yes, the reason was explained by the person I was going to meet, it's a narrow curve and people used to take it at fast speed, some crashes happened 12:47:59 *** stefino has joined #openttd 12:48:43 <Eddi|zuHause> did the police cite you on this, or just issue a warning? 12:49:08 <Wolf01> No, I think they didn't even see me, or maybe they are used to this behavior 12:49:08 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 12:49:50 <stefino> hi, can someone explain to me why are offsets different in nml and in the game? https://postimg.org/image/3l0vthe7t/ thanks 12:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: completely blue (transparent) lines may be cut from sprites, and the offsets are automatically adjusted 12:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you can suppress that with the -c option 12:52:04 <stefino> so I have to cut out transparent parts corectly to get right absolute offsets 12:52:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:52:37 <Wolf01> Meow 12:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: no, you don't have to do that 12:54:41 <Flygon> <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand the whole craze about roundabouts 12:54:44 <Flygon> They're cheap. 12:55:07 <Wolf01> They allow u-turns 12:55:09 <Flygon> Our local Shire Council managed to get a lot of shit for replacing a set of traffic lights with a roundabout around 15 years ago. 12:55:31 <Flygon> The roundabout is now considered one of THE most dangerous intersections inside the town now. 12:55:41 <Flygon> Especially since it tends to rain here. 12:56:08 <Flygon> Peak hour + Lots of impatient drivers + Lots of traffic backed up + Traffic coming in from all directions = Tonnes of wheelslip and the roundabout full of traffic. 12:56:10 <Wolf01> I'm usually against replacing traffic lights with roundabouts, but I would like to have roundabouts in place of plain junctions on main roads, since it's really difficult to turn left usually 12:56:22 <Flygon> It's a miracle we haven't had a multi-car pile up. 12:57:28 <Eddi|zuHause> they replaced a regular crossing with a roundabout here. i usually drive straight across it (they paved the center, to make it easier for trucks to turn) 12:57:40 <Flygon> https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8013938,144.957503,449m/data=!3m1!1e3 Since we're on the subject of roundabout, btw. :B 12:58:26 <Wolf01> "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." funny google... 12:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: i see the problem: they built it the wrong way around 12:58:59 <Flygon> Urgh, Google Maps overview is terrible - http://gokml.net/maps#ll=-37.801164,-215.042377&z=19&t=h It's easier to see in GOKML. 12:59:20 <Flygon> Eddi: S'more... the Tramlines and amount of traffic going through. :V 12:59:54 <Flygon> They installed Traffic Lights in it. About 5 years ago. It was veritable hell to drive through. Still is. @_@ 12:59:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: we used to have such a monstrosity 13:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: then they built the tram one layer deeper 13:00:30 <Flygon> Yeah, I'm not sure we'll ever submerge or viaduct the relevant Tramlines. 13:01:03 <Wolf01> https://www.google.it/maps/@45.8206365,13.214952,234m/data=!3m1!1e3 They want to make 2 roundabouts here, with an hourglass shape and the railway passing in the middle of one 13:01:14 <Flygon> There's a few - well, quite a few other Tramlines going through roundabouts in the city (Comes with the world's largest Tram network :V), but this's the worst of them. 13:01:41 <Flygon> Wolf01: That solution is EXTREMELY popular here. 13:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Riebeckplatz/@51.478467,11.9831799,233m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47a6634395e461f3:0xd762f3b39ed7237!8m2!3d51.4784696!4d11.9836056 13:02:54 <Flygon> http://gokml.net/maps#ll=-37.715589,-214.991358&z=18&t=h Since we're exchanging monstrosities of intersections - I reckon Reservoir gets a lot of points for how awful the level crossing is. 13:03:34 <Flygon> Ooh, yeah. Definitely much more room to sink the Tramline in. 13:04:12 <Flygon> (I'm not sure how they plan to 'fix up' the intersection - This segment of the line IS being viaducted) 13:04:21 <stefino> Eddi - ok, so thank you :) 13:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: they significantly changed the routes of the tram 13:04:52 <Flygon> Oh. O_O 13:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: where the tram is now, used to be a passenger tunnel. the tram lines from the north and from the south and from the west used to run in the center of the road 13:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and meet in the center of the circle 13:07:07 *** stefino has quit IRC 13:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> err, s/west/east 13:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a tram line from the west, but that was eliminated much earlier 13:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: part of the problem was that the trams from the south entered the circle between the two bridges, and thus were hard to see from a car 13:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (there were no traffic lights at that time) 13:09:22 <Flygon> Ooooh. 13:09:24 <Flygon> Yowch. 13:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> this was also the highest-traffic intersection in the whole region 13:11:28 <Flygon> I really. 13:11:30 <Flygon> REALLY must ask. 13:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> so you had like 3 tram accidents per day 13:11:46 <Flygon> Why didn't they have interum traffic lights? 13:12:11 <Flygon> They're definitely NOT the perfect solution - Haymarket Roundabout gets a few prangs still - But they really do help. 13:12:18 <Wolf01> BTW, after NRT I would like to make some changes at vehicle movement 13:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, automatic tram-activated traffic lights only entered the picture about 20 years ago, and the reconstruction planning started like 15 years ago 13:13:31 <Wolf01> Having 2 lanes roads (4 lanes on the same tile, without pavements maybe) could be nice 13:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: *cough* statemachines *cough* 13:14:51 <Wolf01> You want to help? 13:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not 13:15:40 <Flygon> Huh. 13:15:55 <Flygon> We've had Tram activated lights for about as long as we've individually tracked Trams. 13:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: but you didn't have communism 13:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i suppose it could have been possible, there were tram-activated switches already in place (was a custom solution by our local tram company around 50 years ago) 13:17:51 <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause: I... uhm, admittedly, forgot that factor. 13:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: but that wasn't really that much of a problem, because there was not that much car traffic 13:18:14 <Flygon> Though, I gotta say - It's a miracle we kept our Tram network at all. :V 13:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but car numbers really exploded about 25 years ago 13:18:25 <Flygon> Every single other city in the continent followed the American example blindly. 13:18:55 <Flygon> About the only reason ours 'became' the biggest on the planet is because everyone tore up their even huger networks. 13:19:15 <Eddi|zuHause> which suddenly created problems that weren't there before, while at the same time there was not enough money to solve all the other problems that built up over 40 years of communism 13:19:41 <Flygon> Yeah, that rapid shift would be hugely problematic. 13:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause> ... while the whole economy was collapsing 13:20:40 <Flygon> Yeah. It's truly impossible for someone like me to grasp the full effect of it. 13:20:47 <Flygon> Being tucked away on my little corner of the planet. 13:20:54 <Wolf01> http://www.wingamestore.com/product/4198/Cities-Skylines/ shit, and I don't have the credit card... 13:21:08 <Flygon> Wolf01: Have PayPal? 13:21:14 <Wolf01> Eh... 13:21:38 <Flygon> Of the "If they don't take PayPal, I'll buy it for you if you send me the money" variety. 13:22:02 <Flygon> Though. I must say. 13:22:09 <Flygon> I've never heard of a modern store not taking PayPal. 13:22:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: but you definitely also need some of the expansions... 13:22:50 <Flygon> ^ 13:23:04 <Wolf01> The problem is that I need 2 days to transfer money to paypal 13:23:43 <Flygon> Oh, fuck. 13:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: paypal, at least here, offers to pull the money from your bank account, and will indicate that transfer to the receiver immediately (before they actually get the money) 13:25:04 <Wolf01> I need to try to change my bank account tied to paypal 13:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: at least all the things i ever bought with paypal were delivered immediately 13:26:14 <milek7> "pull the money fron your bank account"? 13:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: dunno how to describe it, or if it even has an english word 13:27:35 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: dictionary says "direct debit" 13:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno how equivalent that is 13:28:44 <milek7> but how it is authorized? just by iban number? 13:29:10 <Wolf01> Meh... 4-5 days to confirm the account 13:29:49 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: i think they make a test charge on the account 13:32:23 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 13:33:27 <Wolf01> Too bad paypal won't allow me to configure my debt card 13:33:37 <milek7> but you only need to enter your bank account to pay from it, like in debit/credit cards? 13:34:24 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: yeah 13:34:52 <Wolf01> You must confirm it with the data in the payment description they send you 13:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> mind you, i set that up like a decade ago, and don't remember all the details 13:37:54 <milek7> sounds horribly insecure 13:38:34 <Wolf01> Daniele Termini88188 13:38:39 <Wolf01> Mmmm 13:39:01 <Wolf01> Not an actual password :P 13:39:11 <milek7> here payment providers typically have integration with bank api to redirect to bank site with prefilled transfer details 13:40:38 <andythenorth> o/ 13:40:47 <milek7> and they have account in all supported banks to verify payment immediately 13:43:33 <andythenorth> @seen snail 13:43:33 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: snail was last seen in #openttd 8 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 41 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Snail> I’ll post something on his thread then, thanks 13:43:39 <andythenorth> shame http://www.railpictures.net/photo/626623/ 13:44:13 <Alberth> nice blue train :) 13:47:21 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 13:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: well, with debit payments like that, the account owner can reject the payment up to 6 weeks later 13:53:48 *** Progman has joined #openttd 13:54:51 <milek7> revert transfer already done? weird 13:56:38 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 14:00:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 14:01:00 <Wolf01> I knew I shouldn't have changed bank, now I have 2 OTP devices and I should remove the old one... but I can't and I can't register the new one, and if they remove the old one I wouldn't be able to access to the web banking 14:15:46 <andythenorth> and yet https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5736 14:15:54 <andythenorth> OpenTTD does in fact seem to know what a brake van is 14:16:12 <andythenorth> autoreplace handles brake vans perfectly 14:16:17 * andythenorth just tested it 14:17:42 <Wolf01> Did you try with autoremoval of wagons? 14:18:09 <andythenorth> yup 14:18:19 <andythenorth> only removes the type(s) being replaced, if they’re too long 14:18:24 <andythenorth> pretty neat 14:18:40 <Wolf01> Even if you replace the engine with a longer one? 14:18:46 <Alberth> still a partial solution :p 14:18:54 <andythenorth> Wolf01: dunno, didn’t try that 14:19:18 <andythenorth> wagon removal doesn’t apply if it’s the engine that’s longer 14:19:20 <andythenorth> apparently 14:19:41 <Wolf01> Doesn't apply or fail with caboose? 14:20:33 <andythenorth> seems not 14:20:41 <andythenorth> interesting https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5735 14:22:25 <Wolf01> +1 14:23:44 <Wolf01> You should enable the voting system on FS, there is one IIRC 14:24:01 <andythenorth> oh god 14:24:13 <andythenorth> that sounds super spiffy awesome 14:24:27 <andythenorth> the reason “nothing gets patched” is clearly because we don’t have votes :D 14:24:45 <Wolf01> https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/08/13/0312205/amateur-drone-lands-on-british-air-carrier-wired-reviews-anti-drone-technology hahah 14:29:16 <andythenorth> so many George FS requests 14:30:04 <Wolf01> Uhm... votes were enabled back in time 14:30:05 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:30:51 <andythenorth> votes are shit 14:31:20 <Wolf01> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/2302?project=1 look at this :P 14:31:32 <Wolf01> 22 votes 14:32:53 <Wolf01> Also the most wanted tasks is disappeared 14:33:06 <Wolf01> s//is 14:38:49 * andythenorth wants to close 2302 14:40:16 * andythenorth is probably biased 14:40:36 <andythenorth> ‘breakdowns: off’ all the way here 14:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> that is a BAD REASON 14:42:29 <Alberth> less severe breakdowns could persuade users to keep it on 14:45:21 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly. 14:45:24 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 14:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause> although the main problem with breakdowns is not that they break down, but that you have no means of mitigation for your network 14:48:13 <andythenorth> all that extra breakdowns stuff just seems like extra docs to write :P 14:48:23 <andythenorth> also newgrf authors will want control over it 14:50:59 <andythenorth> ho 14:51:06 <andythenorth> could we introduce a UI scripting language? 14:54:42 <Wolf01> If the UI would be designed in xaml or similar it would be better 14:54:45 * andythenorth sees a bunch of FS that is people wanting quite custom, specific ‘click this button’ crap 14:54:54 <andythenorth> ‘can haz magic button' 14:54:58 <andythenorth> whereas 14:55:05 * andythenorth has more buttons than needed already 14:55:11 <andythenorth> I only just learnt what ‘force upgrade’ does 14:55:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that one is my fault :p 14:57:24 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 14:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, the next monument is going to be tricky, i need 10000 squares of office buildings (not commercial), and i only have short of 4000 14:59:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and 0 demand for anything 15:00:12 *** Adrian has joined #openttd 15:00:50 *** Adrian is now known as Guest2300 15:01:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: still looking for this? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5487 15:01:31 <Guest2300> Hello. I downloaded World Airliners Set 0.1 from within the game. When using the NewGRF, airports are disabled in the game. Any idea why that might be? 15:02:01 <andythenorth> this is a ‘no’, right? Want a new name, get a new ID https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5475 15:02:06 * andythenorth is pretty certain, but eh 15:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it has some use cases 15:04:25 *** minisylf has joined #openttd 15:06:11 <andythenorth> orders are supposed to be deterministic? 15:06:16 <andythenorth> or do I misunderstand? 15:06:23 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5432 15:06:39 *** quiznilo has quit IRC 15:08:56 <Alberth> power is pretty determinstic 15:09:32 <andythenorth> totally randomisable 15:09:33 <Alberth> it's ok to use conditions, if the conditions are constants 15:09:44 <andythenorth> nearly anything on a newgrf cb is not a constant 15:09:57 <Alberth> oh, ok 15:10:15 <Alberth> then yep, won't fly 15:10:45 <Alberth> although I never understood why you want to have orders depending on properties of that train 15:11:24 <Alberth> just adding useless complexity 15:14:15 <_dp_> would be actually quite handy to fix mistakes with shared orders 15:14:29 <_dp_> split them with orders rather than having hunt them all one-by-one 15:14:47 <andythenorth> my FS mission here is partially to try and separate wood from trees 15:14:54 <andythenorth> there are so many similar-ish requests 15:15:01 <andythenorth> some might have a common grain of truth, maybe 15:15:15 <andythenorth> I’ve killed nearly 100 issues I think 15:15:44 <Alberth> _dp_: open list of trains on same shared order, pick one, unshare, fix, pick other and share new, done 15:16:36 <Alberth> and different stats only works if you really have different engines 15:16:44 <_dp_> Alberth, ... repeat 50 times, done :p 15:17:16 <Alberth> no, you can just share the new with all of them 15:18:01 <_dp_> Alberth, what if I want to share new with only half of them? 15:18:20 <andythenorth> send 50% of them to depot 15:18:23 <andythenorth> scrap them 15:18:26 <andythenorth> build new trains 15:18:27 <Alberth> how do you split a set of trains that are identical? 15:18:36 <_dp_> usually happens when I accidently shared wrong orders with onther group already 15:18:45 * andythenorth does that sometimes 15:18:50 <andythenorth> but then we have autosave eh? 15:19:20 <Alberth> the right solution is to give them a new order, not keep sharing some meta-order 15:19:21 <_dp_> It's not much of a problem if they are identical)) 15:19:39 <_dp_> But if it's say coal trains with farm trains orders... 15:20:28 <_dp_> andythenorth, yeah, that's what I do sometimes but usually just ignore them 15:20:40 <Alberth> the point is, you don't always have stats that are different 15:21:51 <_dp_> well, mb, I just though of a problem that might help to solve sometimes 15:21:58 <Alberth> and you still have the big meta order you cannot unshare between the groups 15:23:00 <_dp_> Alberth, can send wrong ones into depot at least 15:24:14 <andythenorth> shows in part the weakness of groups 15:24:22 <andythenorth> again 15:24:36 <andythenorth> group can be made from shared order, but no way to assign shared order to group 15:26:14 <frosch123> from today's pov you would likely make groups work on top of shared orders 15:26:28 <frosch123> you would display shared orders as "routes" and then group those 15:26:50 <andythenorth> sounds plausible 15:27:20 <frosch123> may be worth looking up the original groups topic 15:27:27 <frosch123> to check what they were initially intended for :p 15:28:30 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 15:29:47 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=544669#p544669 <- somewhere before that post 15:30:08 <andythenorth> it was for replacing 15:30:26 <andythenorth> related to mass-replacement of track 15:30:39 <andythenorth> :P https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=212723#p212723 15:31:17 *** silly-tux has joined #openttd 15:32:56 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=54372 15:33:15 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:33:39 <andythenorth> such routes :P 15:34:11 <frosch123> i guess it's all bjarni's fault :p 15:34:21 <andythenorth> you should write a blame bot 15:34:26 <andythenorth> they’re quite useful 15:34:33 <andythenorth> DorpsGek: blame frosch123 15:34:45 <andythenorth> see, DorpsGek doesn’t spread blame 15:34:53 <frosch123> @blame 15:35:21 <andythenorth> @blame frosch123 15:35:35 <andythenorth> meh 15:38:41 *** gpsoft has joined #openttd 15:40:47 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:41:29 <andythenorth> 55 comments on how to close windows? :D https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5147 15:41:30 <andythenorth> :o 15:42:59 <frosch123> @blame andy 15:42:59 <DorpsGek> frosch123: blames andy 15:43:17 <andythenorth> yup 15:45:56 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 15:48:54 <andythenorth> 32 railtypes? 15:48:57 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5040 15:50:10 <frosch123> combinatorial bs 15:50:58 *** Guest2300 has quit IRC 15:51:29 <andythenorth> you closing it, or me? 15:51:32 <andythenorth> :P 15:51:42 * andythenorth is practicing saying ‘no’ in different ways 15:51:47 <frosch123> i haven't visited forums in a week 15:51:55 <frosch123> now i have > 30 unread flyspray mails :p 15:52:30 <milek7> i think 240 companies is more useful :> 15:52:36 <andythenorth> soooooory :P 15:52:56 <andythenorth> I got more blunt about closing tasks, instead of ‘request closure' 15:53:17 <frosch123> well, i have bookmarks to all the tasks i am interested in 15:53:24 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 15:53:27 <frosch123> so the status of a task never mattered 15:54:07 <frosch123> bookmarks also work on forums and reddit and whateer 15:55:02 <andythenorth> it’s become a meta-game, can I get below 700 tasks? 15:55:09 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 15:55:12 <andythenorth> a lot of them are either legit, or way out my ability to judge 15:55:18 <andythenorth> like all the crash reports :P 15:55:46 <LordAro> there are quite a lot of crash reports where there's just not enough information to draw any meaningful conclusion from 15:56:24 <frosch123> well, one conclusion is to replace icu with harfbuzz 15:56:52 <andythenorth> if we’re not doing six-sigma statistics to cluster bug reports 15:57:00 <andythenorth> then all the ones that lack info should be shut 15:57:04 <andythenorth> they’re just noise 15:59:31 <frosch123> maybe we can excite LordAro to read up on harfbuzz :) 15:59:44 <andythenorth> go on then LordAro 15:59:47 <LordAro> D: 15:59:47 <andythenorth> be a hero 15:59:50 <andythenorth> you can do it:) 15:59:52 <andythenorth> then SDL 2 15:59:55 <andythenorth> proper stuff 16:00:15 * andythenorth deletes a “Toll Plazas” feature request 16:00:17 <andythenorth> not happening 16:00:27 <LordAro> Alberth can do SDL2 16:00:31 <LordAro> :p 16:01:00 <LordAro> what's wrong with ICU, anyway? 16:01:14 <frosch123> it crashes a lot on newer windows with newer standard fonts 16:01:20 <frosch123> like "times new roman" 16:01:34 <LordAro> ah 16:01:34 <frosch123> it's also deprecated//unsupported for n years 16:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: who would ever use that font? 16:02:10 <andythenorth> e.g. https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6563 16:02:22 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it was the example on the wiki :p 16:02:41 <frosch123> which means that it worked for years, and then with either a windows upgrade or a compile farm upgrade it broke 16:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and who reads the wiki? 16:03:13 <frosch123> isn't it the most linked page here? 16:03:14 <LordAro> frosch123: look through my patch queue(s) and we'll talk :p 16:03:59 <andythenorth> one more closure and I hit 750 left :P 16:04:03 <andythenorth> nobody add any more :P 16:04:40 <LordAro> andythenorth: what, ever? :p 16:05:37 *** dark_pingus has quit IRC 16:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: well, since there's no development there can't be new bugs, and new feature requests will be deleted by andy anyway, so... 16:06:02 <LordAro> :D 16:08:00 <andythenorth> if feature requests are what drives development, we have enough :P 16:08:09 <andythenorth> is that how it works? o_O 16:10:19 <Alberth> most FS requests don't count as such, since they are non-feasible, or too edge-case 16:13:03 *** Gja has quit IRC 16:13:49 <andythenorth> peter1138 has a patch for that 16:13:50 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5006 16:15:00 *** dark_pingus has joined #openttd 16:16:33 <andythenorth> yay 750 16:17:34 <andythenorth> Can we remove inflation entirely? 16:17:44 <andythenorth> then we can close this as 100% implemented https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4799 16:18:23 <frosch123> i came to the conclusion that it's not even worth the effort to discuss money stuff 16:18:50 <andythenorth> I would be prepared to answer all player whining if we just delete inflation 16:19:36 <Wolf01> Bah, I'm bored 16:19:51 <frosch123> Wolf01: read up on halfbuzz :p 16:20:36 <andythenorth> or delete inflation 16:20:46 <andythenorth> it could be the actual April Fool’s 16:20:54 <andythenorth> “No we really have deleted it" 16:23:05 <Wolf01> "changed fonts to comic sans" 16:23:44 <frosch123> ottd is an old game, dom casual would fit better 16:28:01 <andythenorth> frosch123: this never shipped? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4754 16:28:34 <frosch123> nope 16:31:51 <andythenorth> this is fricking stupid https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4652 16:31:55 <LordAro> oh, that's why vim's syntax highlighting is freaking out 16:31:59 <LordAro> it thinks this file is cobol 16:32:03 <andythenorth> why change the palette on a newgrf? All they do is break 16:32:31 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:33:02 * andythenorth closed it 16:35:55 <Alberth> saving makes sense, to solve the problem for older newgrfs 16:36:13 <Alberth> but that could be done together with saving parameter settings 16:36:34 <andythenorth> “don’t use broken newgrfs” imho 16:36:59 <frosch123> we may have outlived the problem :p 16:38:15 <Alberth> :) 16:38:45 <frosch123> oh, now it's 43 unread mails 16:38:49 <frosch123> maybe i should get a new account 16:40:26 <andythenorth> set up a rule 16:40:29 <andythenorth> FS -> trash 16:40:38 * andythenorth stopped reading email 5 years ago 16:41:18 <andythenorth> oops, bored again 16:41:25 <andythenorth> got to 742 :P 16:41:33 <andythenorth> verified a non-bug even 16:41:57 <andythenorth> I love this meta one https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4491 :) 16:43:42 <LordAro> frosch123: well, i've got as far as getting the configure script to find harfbuzz :p 16:43:53 <frosch123> \o/ 16:44:00 <LordAro> (why do we reimplement most of autoconf, anyway) 16:44:24 <LordAro> frosch123: now my patches :p 16:44:49 <frosch123> i only now about the search thing 16:45:00 <frosch123> no idea what your plural refers to 16:45:01 <LordAro> (incidentally, harfbuzz has basically 0 documentation) 16:45:25 <LordAro> https://gist.github.com/LordAro/760063761dc46bacb0c37576c296361a (sort thing) https://gist.github.com/LordAro/421dacee7b6911628849beaabc209f0c (various, mostly warning fixes) 16:45:45 <LordAro> (0001 probably doesn't matter) 16:46:20 <Wolf01> <LordAro> (incidentally, harfbuzz has basically 0 documentation) <- yeah I noticed that even "integrating harfbuzz on a project" is not helpful 16:48:03 <LordAro> (and 0007 & 0008 are basically "i'm bored") 16:53:08 <andythenorth> is this a useful optimisation? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4433 16:54:37 <frosch123> it doesn't have a diff 16:55:20 <_dp_> speed optimizations are generally useless without a profiler report 16:55:46 <LordAro> both RB & SZ seem rather sceptical about it 17:02:36 <andythenorth> closed 17:03:17 <andythenorth> useful? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4065 17:04:13 <Wolf01> Maybe 17:05:19 <_dp_> yeah, fps is nice to know sometimes 17:05:59 <frosch123> s/fps/ping/ 17:06:00 <Alberth> it's fixed 17:06:59 <frosch123> ottd is a cinematic game, it has fps locked to 30 17:07:13 <LordAro> hmm 17:07:27 <LordAro> doesn't seem like there's a good replacement for the ICU sort/collation stuff 17:07:28 <_dp_> it definitely doesn't do all 30 sometimes :p 17:07:30 <Wolf01> But ticks per second change a lot 17:07:53 <LordAro> "time taken to process frame" could be useful 17:08:59 <LordAro> unless i could do something with std::locale 17:12:25 <frosch123> "strcoll" 17:12:37 <_dp_> Wolf01, do they? it depends on hardware but otherwise seem pretty stable 17:12:45 <LordAro> frosch123: ew, C functions :p 17:12:50 <frosch123> my experiences with std::locale are terrible 17:12:53 <LordAro> same 17:13:15 <LordAro> not seeing a way to do it case insensitively (as per strnatcmp) with either anyway 17:13:20 <frosch123> at least for gcc 4.5 and 4.8 they consistently perform worse than the equivalent c functions 17:13:29 <andythenorth> I thought this was unsolvable? o_O 17:13:30 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/3764 17:13:45 <andythenorth> due to variation in semantics of subtype across vehicles 17:14:18 <andythenorth> no vocabulary = no way to compare semantics 17:14:24 <andythenorth> way too much complexity to solve 17:14:28 <LordAro> well, i guess passing locale to to_lower could solve that 17:16:06 <frosch123> LordAro: anyway, rendering and sorting are independent icu libraries 17:16:18 <LordAro> frosch123: tbf, i can't imagine the string sorting is a performance-critical bit of the program 17:16:20 <frosch123> i think the sorting is still supported 17:16:25 <LordAro> true 17:17:29 <LordAro> googling "icu support" isn't all that helpful 17:18:14 <frosch123> there is a release from april 2017 17:19:13 <frosch123> it learned about unicode emoji 17:19:31 <LordAro> aye, i've found the mailing list 17:19:40 <LordAro> what's your source on the layout stuff being unsupported though? 17:19:53 <frosch123> the offical docs 17:20:16 <frosch123> http://userguide.icu-project.org/layoutengine <- even removed meanwhile 17:20:25 <LordAro> huh 17:20:27 <LordAro> fair 17:23:04 <frosch123> debian stable has icu 57 17:23:12 <frosch123> so i guess that's why i haven't noticed 17:23:17 <LordAro> haha 17:31:27 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 17:31:53 <andythenorth> did someone implement consist templates? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/3373 17:32:15 <frosch123> yes 17:32:36 <LordAro> istr a video 17:32:51 <frosch123> i think the current one is by juanjo 17:34:38 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=58904 <- nah, it's ffpp 17:37:01 <andythenorth> oh yeah 17:37:11 <andythenorth> the UI freaked me out with it’s ugliness 17:37:15 <andythenorth> so I didn’t try the patch 17:39:05 * andythenorth wonders if eventually one of the patchpacks will win 17:39:12 <andythenorth> and supplant OpenTTD 17:39:48 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 17:43:26 *** orudge` has quit IRC 17:43:49 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 17:43:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 17:51:12 <andythenorth> eh 723 tickets :P 17:51:20 <LordAro> getting closer :) 17:51:26 <LordAro> frosch123: so them patches ;) 17:53:22 <andythenorth> seems I closed 92 or so :P 17:53:47 <andythenorth> “Not a current goal for OpenTTD” is my favourite rationale 17:53:51 <andythenorth> totally 100% true :P 17:56:10 *** Zuu has joined #openttd 17:58:08 <_dp_> does it even have a goal? 17:59:32 <andythenorth> somewhere in the wiki ;) 17:59:49 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Objectives 17:59:54 <LordAro> "Roadmap 1.8" 18:02:20 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:04:29 <andythenorth> did we actually move to git yet? o_O https://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_development#Why_did_the_developers_decide_to_use_Subversion.3F 18:05:35 <LordAro> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD sure 18:06:40 <andythenorth> no pull requests there :D 18:06:51 <LordAro> your work is clearly done then 18:07:05 <Zuu> It says that you should send pull requests to bugs.openttd.org. 18:08:15 <andythenorth> I can delete them there :) 18:10:51 *** eekee1 has joined #openttd 18:15:52 *** eekee has quit IRC 18:19:29 <andythenorth> these goals are actually really good https://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_development#What_are_the_goals_of_the_offical_branch.3F 18:19:52 * andythenorth can reject more FS with them :) 18:29:55 *** orudge` has quit IRC 18:30:01 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 18:30:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 18:31:15 <LordAro> (gdb) p fonts[size].size() 18:31:15 <LordAro> = 0 18:31:15 <LordAro> (gdb) p fonts[size].begin() == fonts[size].end() 18:31:15 <LordAro> = false 18:31:19 <LordAro> this is an issue 18:38:09 <LordAro> aha 18:38:10 <LordAro> initialisation order 18:38:47 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27893 /trunk/src (60 files in 12 dirs) (2017-08-13 20:38:42 +0200 ) 18:38:48 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Use fallthrough attribute. (LordAro) 18:38:54 <LordAro> :) 18:40:20 <frosch123> about the multibyte-constants: i am thinking about a macro "#define DWORD_STR(a,b,c,d) (a | b<<8 | c<<16 | d<<24)" 18:40:22 <frosch123> not sure about the name 18:40:33 <LordAro> yeah, maybe something like that 18:40:34 <frosch123> but the manual conversion to hex is meh 18:40:53 <LordAro> if we had C++14 we could do "NUMB"_custom_suffix 18:40:54 <LordAro> :p 18:40:56 <frosch123> also i wonder whether railtypes work on big endian :p 18:41:05 <LordAro> indeed :) 18:41:58 <frosch123> oh, i made some indentation changes in some places and removed your TODO 18:42:07 <frosch123> depend.cpp was left as it 18:42:14 <frosch123> stdafx.h could not be easily added 18:42:29 * LordAro checks 18:42:33 <LordAro> oh, could it not? 18:42:55 <frosch123> depend.cpp seems to include a partial copy of stuff 18:43:12 <frosch123> i also don't know what depend may use, and what is still being generated 18:55:05 <V453000> yo huminz 18:55:17 <V453000> I got a shitload of mails about closed FS things from andythenorth :D 18:56:39 <Zuu> V453000: me too. 18:57:10 <Zuu> That is why the link to the irc logs on the wiki is now updated. :-) 18:57:19 <V453000> basterd 18:57:47 <frosch123> V453000: i have 53 18:57:50 <frosch123> can you top that? 18:59:53 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:59:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:00:51 <V453000> n 19:03:38 <andythenorth> why would anyone read email, ever :P 19:04:16 <andythenorth> I am tempted to close some of the 55 or so that george has open 19:04:23 <andythenorth> some are pretty legit 19:04:27 <andythenorth> others...eh 19:04:36 <andythenorth> don’t want to upset george though :P 19:08:15 *** gpsoft_ has joined #openttd 19:13:53 *** gpsoft has quit IRC 19:16:33 *** Gja has quit IRC 19:27:59 *** gpsoft has joined #openttd 19:30:36 *** gpsoft__ has joined #openttd 19:32:53 *** gpsoft_ has quit IRC 19:32:54 *** gpsoft_ has joined #openttd 19:36:23 *** gpsoft has quit IRC 19:36:32 *** gpsoft has joined #openttd 19:38:42 *** gpsoft__ has quit IRC 19:41:26 *** gpsoft_ has quit IRC 19:47:07 *** Alberth has left #openttd 19:49:09 *** NCommander has quit IRC 19:51:38 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 19:55:05 *** Zuu has quit IRC 20:09:33 <andythenorth> ach 20:09:41 <andythenorth> I won my ebay game 20:09:46 <andythenorth> now I have to find a new ebay game 20:10:39 <LordAro> oh no 20:12:00 <frosch123> do you sell fs tasks on ebay? 20:15:04 <andythenorth> :P 20:15:17 <andythenorth> I seek out relatively rare HO trains at a fair price :P 20:15:29 <andythenorth> it can take months to find the right one 20:15:39 <andythenorth> searching is more fun than winning 20:21:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: where is the vertical line patch? 20:22:12 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^ 20:26:45 <andythenorth> I’ve got a patch file, but I think Wolf has a newer/better version :P 20:28:35 <andythenorth> frosch123: https://gist.github.com/andythenorth/237c6062748a21de30d7fe28f9db5fa9 20:28:55 <andythenorth> there was some critique of it 20:30:36 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 20:32:16 *** orudge` has quit IRC 20:33:11 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 20:33:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 20:34:00 <V453000> I guess HO is pretty damn large eh 20:34:39 <V453000> just found a random engine for 0 :D 20:35:38 <andythenorth> how about? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OVERLAND-MODELS-PAIR-OF-LITTLE-JOES-E73-E74-MILWAUKEE-ROAD-HO-SCALE-1997-BUILD-/142475402071?hash=item212c321b57:g:pIQAAOSw2gxY2Ayd 20:35:41 <V453000> 5000 eurs for a train? 20:35:55 <V453000> ok only 2k pounds for that one :D 20:36:12 * andythenorth not buyng 20:36:12 <V453000> what in the shit :D 20:36:18 <andythenorth> I have 2k pounds of trains 20:36:27 <andythenorth> but way more than 2 engines :P 20:37:17 <V453000> I suddenly feel less bad about buying a 00 computer :) 20:37:42 <V453000> also bought daughter her first lego duplo train with rails 20:37:44 <V453000> big milestone 20:37:52 <andythenorth> yay 20:38:30 <V453000> for now just this https://www.walmart.com/ip/LEGO-DUPLO-My-First-Train-Set/37402872 20:38:34 <V453000> she likes it 20:38:41 <V453000> I keep her for now 20:39:15 <V453000> ok so why is that HO stuff so expensive? :D 20:39:20 <V453000> or at least the thousand pound models 20:39:54 <V453000> nvm forget I asked http://www.ebay.com/itm/Z-Scale-Layout-EJ-Gold-Official-Clinton-White-House-Artist-PROOFS-PUBLISHED-L-K-/391399096760?hash=item5b213441b8:g:L0sAAOSwAvJW~RxY 20:40:15 <andythenorth> usually it’s hand-built 20:40:19 <andythenorth> time = money etc :P 20:40:42 <andythenorth> DuploError: NoSpottyDog 20:40:52 <V453000> haha 20:40:54 <V453000> iz goat though 20:41:20 <V453000> I get that it's hand built but being worth more than a car is kind of ... :D 20:41:30 <V453000> wife would be thrilled I'm sure 20:42:27 <andythenorth> dog https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=1396pb03&idColor=1#T=S&C=1&O={"color":1} 20:42:29 <V453000> ok enough internet for today apparently 20:42:38 <andythenorth> such bed 20:42:43 <V453000> hm not sure if we have that one yet 20:42:46 <V453000> pretty sure we don't 20:42:48 <andythenorth> https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=5647-1#T=S&O={} 20:42:54 <andythenorth> dog arrives in tractor 20:43:12 <V453000> christmas is soon I guess 20:43:54 <V453000> nyway 20:43:55 <V453000> gnight 20:44:04 <andythenorth> bye 20:44:53 <andythenorth> eh, from ‘wanted contributions’ list :| https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5981 20:56:21 <__ln___> greetings from the austro-hungarian empire 20:57:01 *** mescalito has quit IRC 20:58:07 <frosch123> sarajevo? 20:58:35 <andythenorth> glad I found this :) https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6207 20:58:44 <__ln___> nah, budapest 20:58:50 <andythenorth> was about to add mixed-cargo articulated stuff to IH 20:58:59 <andythenorth> buda or pest? 21:00:51 <__ln___> pest 21:08:14 * andythenorth went to the hot baths once 21:08:33 <andythenorth> also bed 21:08:33 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:08:52 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:16:30 <Wolf01> __ln___: do you plan to travel near Venice someday? 21:21:51 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:21:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i almost went to venice once, but then didn't 21:22:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that was like 20 years ago, though 21:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause> we were in istria, and there was a daytrip to venice available, by catamaran 21:23:36 <Wolf01> There is a lot to see in the mainland too, depends on what is your interest 21:24:11 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 21:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you just need to say that you're throwing an openttd party... :p 21:27:26 <Wolf01> Too bad I don't have enough space at home 21:29:44 <Eddi|zuHause> > nmlc -v 21:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> ImportError: No module named 'ply' 21:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, i haven't used this in forever 21:33:28 *** Guest1872 is now known as ToBeFree 21:43:47 *** ToBeFree is now known as Guest2323 21:43:47 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 21:54:21 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 22:00:41 *** dark_pingus has quit IRC 22:03:25 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:38:42 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:41:44 <Shoshonite> Are the offsets in NewGRF's graphic templates in pixels or some other quasi-magical unit? 22:45:02 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:47:21 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 22:55:06 *** orudge` has quit IRC 22:55:24 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 22:55:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 23:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> pixels 23:03:55 *** debdog has quit IRC 23:05:36 *** debdog has joined #openttd 23:14:30 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:23:51 * NGC3982 is going to play ttd for the first time in years. 23:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> what blasphemy! nobody here actually PLAYS the game. 23:24:46 <NGC3982> :-p 23:25:06 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 23:25:08 <NGC3982> is firs and ukrs2 still the better grfs? 23:25:22 <Wolf01> We allow you to do it, but only for a brief time and just to test some grf combinations 23:30:12 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 23:46:53 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 23:54:16 *** orudge` has quit IRC 23:54:45 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 23:54:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`